Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: NOTspacecase on January 25, 2013, 04:38 pm
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Enlighten me. If Silk Road is compromised what exactly are the benefits of keeping the site up?
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What cant be benefited from?
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Income.
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SR and DPR are LE, do you think the gov is going to let you by drugs without paying taxes?! mwuhaha foolish minion
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I really dont understand what your asking but if i do... than the question is rather silly..
Kinda like why do cops do stings where lady police pose as prostitues than bust the johns...
Exact same principle
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I really dont understand what your asking but if i do... than the question is rather silly..
Kinda like why do cops do stings where lady police pose as prostitues than bust the johns...
Exact same principle
I understand basic cop theory's, I'm just trying to get a feel of what other people are thinking. That's all.
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In all seriousness though if LE were ever to take over the site they would take it down immediately. Even with access most buyers will be using pgp, especially the bigger orders that LE want to catch, so really all they would get is a few addys of personal users. They would never allow all the pgp sales to continue unimpeded in order to catch some small fish. Also most vendors would be smart enough to make sure that LE cant trace bitcoins from their SR wallet to it's final destination.
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In all seriousness though if LE were ever to take over the site they would take it down immediately. Even with access most buyers will be using pgp, especially the bigger orders that LE want to catch, so really all they would get is a few addys of personal users. They would never allow all the pgp sales to continue unimpeded in order to catch some small fish. Also most vendors would be smart enough to make sure that LE cant trace bitcoins from their SR wallet to it's final destination.
Yeah, that's the same way I feel about it but apparently people keep hinting otherwise, I would like to hear why they feel that way.
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In all seriousness though if LE were ever to take over the site they would take it down immediately. Even with access most buyers will be using pgp, especially the bigger orders that LE want to catch, so really all they would get is a few addys of personal users. They would never allow all the pgp sales to continue unimpeded in order to catch some small fish. Also most vendors would be smart enough to make sure that LE cant trace bitcoins from their SR wallet to it's final destination.
This.
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It's pretty standard in FBI cybercrime operations to keep the site running after it has been compromised in order to gather intel on and ultimately take down the participants. Google Dark Market or Shadowcrew.
With SR the logic is that they'd keep the site running to try and ferret out the biggest vendors. It could be done too. Maybe 20% of customers actually PGP encrypt their shipping address. If LE sees all these shipping addresses they could intercept every package a particular vendor ships and check them out forensically. Fingerprints behind the vacuum sealing, DNA swabs, etc. If a vendor has perfect security, and packages everything with gloves, sterile, drops in random USPS drop boxes over a wide geographic area, they'll be ok. In real life people don't practice perfect security because it's hugely inconvenient and time consuming.
But keeping SR running after it's compromised is politically risky. Some high schooler in middle america (australia, uk, etc) could overdose from SR-purchased drugs and the media backlash would be severe. It'd be another Fast and Furious. People would lose jobs and there's nothing these civil servants fear more than taking a risk like that. So I'm not sure the federal LEAs have the cojones to do it.
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It's pretty standard in FBI cybercrime operations to keep the site running after it has been compromised in order to gather intel on and ultimately take down the participants. Google Dark Market or Shadowcrew.
With SR the logic is that they'd keep the site running to try and ferret out the biggest vendors. It could be done too. Maybe 20% of customers actually PGP encrypt their shipping address. If LE sees all these shipping addresses they could intercept every package a particular vendor ships and check them out forensically. Fingerprints behind the vacuum sealing, DNA swabs, etc. If a vendor has perfect security, and packages everything with gloves, sterile, drops in random USPS drop boxes over a wide geographic area, they'll be ok. In real life people don't practice perfect security because it's hugely inconvenient and time consuming.
But keeping SR running after it's compromised is politically risky. Some high schooler in middle america (australia, uk, etc) could overdose from SR-purchased drugs and the media backlash would be severe. It'd be another Fast and Furious. People would lose jobs and there's nothing these civil servants fear more than taking a risk like that. So I'm not sure the federal LEAs have the cojones to do it.
I dont know what dark market or shadowcrew is but if they were anything like SR they would still be running or pointless to keep up for intel. Also, I very much doubt any vendor would be silly enough to leave fingerprints dna on a package, and I can guarantee you the 'big vendors' have nothing to do with the actual packaging of their products (lucky fucks)
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maybe to observe what impact it has on society when people who want drugs can buy wide wariety of them online. If the impact isn't too bad they might legalize tax and regulate some drugs. I mean legalizing marijuana - only people could buy it who are 21 years old or above and taxing it would make sense but there's underground growers who grow by themselves sell it and make money thats black economy. So growing it should still be a crime like making moonshine. Also opiates and opiods should be legalized and sold from pharmacies to people who has prescription acquared from addiction centre but if given/sold to anyone else punishments should be harsh and ban from ever getting script for opiates/opiods. Diamorphine (heroin - long gone name, like meth - pervitin) should be introduced into market and if you have special needs for something more exotic like nicomorphine or desomorphine you could order it and it would be imported from countries where it is available. To sum it up weed smokers are normal people, less dangerous than alcohol users, opiates/opiods users - same as weed smokers until money runs out. I never tried marijuana but my first drug was heroin intravenously and i met alot of addicts alot of them are normal people who have cars and live somewhat normal life due to high price of this drug, if it was cheap they could lead normal lifes, go to work, be productive but there still should be a rule not to overuse it to the point of nodding at work and in public places. For nodding out in public there should be a fine and a warning. Prescription diamorphine would be the same as methadone I mean whats the difference ? Actually there are reports that people getting diamorphine prescription quit using altogether because it just isn't interesting anymore for them. I'm not addicted physically though just sick of dealing with junkies, getting unknown purity, unknown cuts, danger of being arrested, possible diseases, getting ripped off... How can methadone be better than diamorphine when it's a strong opiod, long lasting, and people taking benzos like candy to nod on it ? Only methadone advantage is ROA - oral. But clean diamorphine can be injected into muscles, under skin with 100% bioavailability. Actually I injected my street heroin (can't call it diamorphine because who knows what it is there besides that) under skin many times without problems. Just this lump forms at site of injection but it disappears after 1 hour max.. You get warm at first and steadily get high :). Few people inject subcutaneous (skin-pop) but it's really good ROA.:) Well sorry for long post and offtopic I'm abit high:)
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Want to do another post. So some people say CIA controls drug trade but how does mexican cartels stack billions of dollars from cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine, black tar(diacetylmorphine (diamorphine), 3-Monoacetylmorphine (3-MAM), 6-Monoacetylmorphine (6-MAM) also if anyone knows what more black tar contains please contribute). I know americans tried to drop chemicals on coca plants but they destroyed other crops too. Also I can't understand why latin american police tries to fight war on drugs while there's so much money lets say in coca (it's their natural resource like diamonds and oil in other countries). There isn't big problem with drug use yet policemen are throwing their lifes away or live in poverty while some spoiled american kids snort coke and complain about low quality and while high make fun of hard working mexicans who immigrated into US. One thing US controls for sure is opium/heroin trade. Just look up statistics - US invades afghanistan - poppy growth rises every year more and more. they send heroin to russia (now russia has biggest number of heroin addicts in the world, quality is amazing price is cheap (heroin vendors from russia where are you?) and quality of life isn't that good so addiction skyrockets. Who said something about russians and vodka ? Now you can find kids with a needle there (TURN DOWN VOLUME - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f4_1173505553 ). I live near russia in eastern europe and in 2001 I was in 4th grade and then I noticed spike in heroin use, kids in school were shooting up like nothing just like smoking a cigarette and no one cared because it wasn't taboo back then - now it is though). there is this dope spot in my country where heroin was sold since 2001 I still buy there quality of a "foil" is very nice better than UK (atleast my friend from UK told me that it's better than any UK dope). Doses are wraped in foil because heroin is smokable, snortable, injectable very nice gear and both 3 ROA has good bioavailability so I don't know if it's no 3 or no 4. I guess purity is about 40%+ which is very good. And when I asked my friend who was buying from there how was the dope back in 2001 he said it was much much stronger he said that dope nowadays is good here but nothing like back in the day. So just imagine how good it was If my friend is was using for 12 years (no veins left due to this homemade shit you won't understand) injects into femoral and easily gets by with 2 foils a day. I was using now for about 2 years and still can't handle one foil without nodding (one foil here about 7 dollars roughly). Mentality of people here is different than westerners though everyone wants to make money and live good, even police sells large amount of drugs they confiscated and you can bribe basically anyone. Well back to americans if they wanted they would chop down those poppy fields and tell farmers to grow something else, or could spread some disease which would kill poppies. Taliban is no threat thats bullshit no matter how much angry people would join them americans just call in air support and it's over. Locating poppy fields is easy there's a video about north korea with satellite photos of increasing poppy fields (North Korean heroin must be the best there is because they have labs and synthesise it legally also methamphetamine pills (yaba) for Asian market). So yes it's pretty clear that they're guarding poppies but if they leave afghanistan and if taliban takes over will they destroy poppies ? Then the only supplier of heroin would be Mexico to US mostly (black tar for smokers, and powder would increase probably) and SEA (South East Asia) they would probably change their market to europe because it would be starving for heroin. Well thats all. is it possible to stop marijuana, opium, heroin ? No. people used marijuana and opium for thousands of years these two are natural. Heroin is half opiate half opiod aka semi-synthetic opiod it isn't natural but it doesn't mean the high is better than opium. For me personally opium and black tar high are better than diamorphine because it's kinda empty for me I only do it because I want to inject. I would inject tar but it's too damaging. Well now I'm really finished. I hope someone reads my thoughts and comments on them thanks.
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^ Holy fucking shit, paragraphs. Do you honestly expect anyone to read that abomination?
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I don't know if they would keep the site up or not, but I do believe that they would try to nab as many customers as possible at once, in order to set an example.
Do you know why it's so hard to find any online retailers who sell mimosa hostilis root bark? It's because last year the DEA raided an online store-- AND COULDN'T CHARGE THEM WITH ANYTHING -- but now that business does not sell the root bark, and within a couple of weeks, every other online retailer took it down. Scared the sh*t out of everyone, so now no one will carry it.
Scare tactics.
The benefit from their perspective if they got to SR, is that they'd make sure every other drug market on the deep web would feel like there was a target on their back and shut down out of fear. I don't really think LE would bother to 'take over' SR and keep it running for any significant length of time. They'd want to make a show of force, using mass media and press coverage to give the impression that they had a total victory over anonymous online drug marketplaces.
Use PGP, people.
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Even with access most buyers will be using pgp, especially the bigger orders that LE want to catch,
Vendors report that 80-90% of their customers don't use PGP. Among them, there will be some big orders in the thousands of dollars that are worth LE's time.
Also most vendors would be smart enough to make sure that LE cant trace bitcoins from their SR wallet to it's final destination.
Most yes, but not all. If there are 500 vendors on the site, there may be dozens who transfer directly to a bitcoin address at an exchange. Again it would be worth LE's time.
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The bigger point is that LE wouldn't know that ahead of time. They would have to run the site to find out. So even if it turned out that 100% of buyers encrypt their addresses and 100% of sellers use anonymous cash out methods (which is almost certainly not true), it would still be useful to run the site for a while and find out.
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First of all I don't think local LE have the resources to take on a place like this, it would have to be federal since it spans several states. And they too have budget problems. The local LE (and in my opinion feds) are more interested in violent street crimes,, guns, major grow sites/smuggling, pedo stuff (hostage situation with a minor), etc.
In most major cities people can smoke crack in front of starbucks, piss in garbage cans, and shit on the sidewalk. LE just turns their heads (this is the good old western USA we're talking about here).
I bet (like pirate bay) SR is somewhere safe and who knows, maybe the place is rigged with explosives like that will smith movie haha
I doubt they would find it, and if they did, they'd try to prosecute whoever's there and any major major info that wouldn't take months to decrypt.
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Personally, I wouldn't order bricks or anything large. I don't suspect vendors are LE, but shit, it only takes one time for freakin LE to pull some shit and pose as a vendor and trace a large order. One of the tricks LE pulls is to let stuff continue so they can try for the big catch.
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Oh no! Nooooooo
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I don't think it would be possible for LE to take down SR but assuming it did:
They would drain what ever intelligence they could get out of it.
make a string of high profile busts for the media as a huge victory in the war on drugs.
I imagine it is hard to keep fake SR busted rumors in check. If it was compromised for real i believe it would be all over the web within minutes.
This is just an intelligent guess. But, I have a feeling that LE couldn't get much from the site itself. I have faith that the security techs here have a just in case plan that would make it near impossible for LE to get anything from the site.
I mean I have a just in case plan for my computer.
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Even with access most buyers will be using pgp, especially the bigger orders that LE want to catch,
Vendors report that 80-90% of their customers don't use PGP. Among them, there will be some big orders in the thousands of dollars that are worth LE's time.
Also most vendors would be smart enough to make sure that LE cant trace bitcoins from their SR wallet to it's final destination.
Most yes, but not all. If there are 500 vendors on the site, there may be dozens who transfer directly to a bitcoin address at an exchange. Again it would be worth LE's time.
I am a vendor, and the rate is not that high, although it is getting higher with all the newbies. Any vendor who would be dumb enough to transfer directly to an exchange will still be able to either withdraw the money anonymously, or, lose the money to the cops/exchange without being 'made'.
But if we forget those logic nuggets do you still believe that LE would happy to allow an enormous amount of drug deals and drug cash withdrawals in the hope of nabbing a few personal users? I doubt LE are that stupid (or nice).
I know you are just trying to make me look foolish and that's cool, go for your life, but to speculate on the outcome of a worst case scenario is pathetic. Notspacecase is capable of speculating, but he would rather ask someone with more insight, and that is certainly not you.
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But if we forget those logic nuggets do you still believe that LE would happy to allow an enormous amount of drug deals and drug cash withdrawals in the hope of nabbing a few personal users? I doubt LE are that stupid (or nice).
Of course not. They are hoping to bust vendors, but they won't know whether they can bust any unless and until they operate the site. That's why it's worthwhile to do so. That was my point in the second post.
Anyway, that is standard operating procedure, as seen in the Shadow Crew bust and many other busts of criminal organizations/communities.
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Really, I doubt they would keep it up.
The only thing I could see them gaining is catching the big time vendors - but even then no LE agency are willingly going to let thousands of pounds worth of drugs be sold everyday just to catch a couple of people with a few kilos of drugs.
Realistically, SR is small time compared to the amount of drugs being moved around the planet everyday.
People are moving tonnes of every drug IRL very often, that's the people they are concerned with.
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Really, I doubt they would keep it up.
The only thing I could see them gaining is catching the big time vendors - but even then no LE agency are willingly going to let thousands of pounds worth of drugs be sold everyday just to catch a couple of people with a few kilos of drugs.
Realistically, SR is small time compared to the amount of drugs being moved around the planet everyday.
People are moving tonnes of every drug IRL very often, that's the people they are concerned with.
To allow a 22million+ a year company to become a new source of income for the government.
They could get away with it because they arent distributing the drugs the vendors are, it allows the masses to be sedated and still increase profit for various research projects.
I realize 22 million is but a drop of rain over an ocean of debt but it could very easy fund a new branch to be able have the money it takes to take down similiar type sites.
If you don't like my theory, ignore it. :)
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Really, I doubt they would keep it up.
The only thing I could see them gaining is catching the big time vendors - but even then no LE agency are willingly going to let thousands of pounds worth of drugs be sold everyday just to catch a couple of people with a few kilos of drugs.
Realistically, SR is small time compared to the amount of drugs being moved around the planet everyday.
People are moving tonnes of every drug IRL very often, that's the people they are concerned with.
To allow a 22million+ a year company to become a new source of income for the government.
They could get away with it because they arent distributing the drugs the vendors are, it allows the masses to be sedated and still increase profit for various research projects.
I realize 22 million is but a drop of rain over an ocean of debt but it could very easy fund a new branch to be able have the money it takes to take down similiar type sites.
If you don't like my theory, ignore it. :)
No, I do get it - it's not a stupid theory at all. :)
I mean, it does make sense that they would be making money - they wouldn't actually be making the 22 mill though - I think that's what went through SR last year roughly (or so I've heard), DPR and his team probably get like 30% of that as a whole. Then the vendors get the rest.
I kinda' think the LE overlook this place, obviously they are trying to shut it down - but I think they are more concerned about the skag (heroin) dealers that are selling the shit to little kids and all the violence they bring to the streets.
Truthfully, we will never really know - as long as this place is here and running smoothly, I'm happy :)