Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: MadeInHolland on April 05, 2012, 04:52 pm
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Imo 5/5 and 4/5 should count as positive feedback, keeping our beloved 100 rating alive, 3/5 should be neutral and 2/5 and 1/5 should count as negative feedback.
Because for example I got this feedback: Shipping took ages!(domestic) Good product and packaging
I can't help it it took a little longer than normal for the package to arrive, I did my part by shipping it fast. I think it's unfair losing my (100) because of this.
Just my two cents though ;)
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I think the general etiquette around here is to leave 5/5 as long as the product arrives and is acceptable quality. Not so sure this is really an honest evaluation of a transaction, but I just go with the flow.
I do think vendors place too much emphasis on that 100 after their name. I know many of them work hard to achieve it, and even harder to maintain it, and it is therefore important to them... but it's inevitable that a buyer will fuck with it or try to ransom it somehow.
Also placing so much emphasis on having a (100) leads to all successful transactions being a 5/5, regardless of whether or not the transaction actually merited such a rating. A 5/5 would reserved for an absolutely stellar transaction. A 4/5 should still be considered a good transaction (positive). Example- a little light on weight, or maybe product not as good as a time before...
However, vendors don't have any control over how long it takes for a package to arrive, and shouldn't be docked because of it.
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I only speak for myself, but I think most would agree, that if I see a 4/5 with no legitimate complaint then I wouldn't hold it against the vendor.
I know that some buyers are dicks. I take into consideration the entirety of the seller's feedback, so as long as you're 98+ (with a lot of 5/5) then it isn't too big of a deal.
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so as long as you're 98+ (with a lot of 5/5) then it isn't too big of a deal.
I just got an order from a 94 vendor and I am so super thrilled with it.
You shouldn't limit yourself from with number. You should take into account the number of transactions done, what's being said in the forums, and whose saying it, at least in my opinion. Although it's true, I am a noob here, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Excellent point. 'Rumor Mill' threads are much more indicative of a seller's quality than any 4/5 or 5/5.
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There should just be a 1/2 and 2/2 because it seems there is no point in 2, 3, or 4. I got reamed at by a vendor for leaving 4/5 because they made some considerably serious packages mistakes.
Yet I got it, it was as described, but the 4/5 is to show people there has been a mild issue with the vendor. Honestly 1/2 or 2/2 if we cant use any numbers then 1/2 or 5.
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I think it should just be an +1 or -1 rating with feedback on each transaction. ( I guess like Karna)
Either the customer is satisfied with transaction (IRL ot not) And moves on. Customer is Happy... THIS IS THE REASON FOR SR. Leave feedback, with ALL HONESTY. No drama or beef.
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IF YOU ARE NOT happy ,,,,,leave an honest opinion (way after working with the vendors}.,.. to simply explain why your not happy. packing, speed, communication or whatever.
STAY IN ESCROW. You are on your own in that dept. If you go out of escrow, NO ONE HERE WILL CARE.
If you have exhausted all resources.....THEN bring it to the forum, YOU WILL GET MUCH SUPPORT IF YOU COME HERE WITH A GOOD CASE.
I am pushing vendors and buyers to STRICTLY use the escrow system. It has saved me a few times and maintained my buyer stats.
I understand that some vendors (even the best) still will require FE, there are too many scammers on here. Good luck and god speed if you do.
This doesn't mean you will never get scammed. This place is bound to have it. Don't spend more than you can afford lose.
AND REMEMBER NO 'BODY' IS WORTH ANY AMOUNT OF DRUGS. MAYBE JUST A KNEE CAP. THIS IS A SITE OF ANONYMITY. I KNOW IT SUCKS, BUT WOULD YOU RATHER EVERYONE HERE KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE,
BAD NEWS. AND! IT IS REALLY EASY TO FIND OUT ABOUT PEOPLE.
Welcome to to 2012. Live and learn. AND KEEP LEARNING AND LEARNING. You will do better for yourself. Especially on here.
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no fair OP. I got a 4/5 and all it said was good product but no explanation as to why no 5/5. I think would have been nice of them to let me know why
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A pulldown list (like how you select your shipping on SR) to select if the correct item came to your designated adress would be a clever idea.
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this is just my opinion on the matter:
I work in the car business and my sales/service guys live & die by their CSI scores (customer service index) if they dont get all "yes" and 5/5 responses they dont get their bonus money and alot of the time they get dinged for things out of their control - eg, we sell Porsches/Audis/Chevys/(and the few remaining SAAB's we have) and we ONLY offer hand car washes. On a nice day we can have 20 people in queue to get their cars washed at the end of their oil change or summer tire swap, and the guys can get perfect scores for the actual work but they'll get a 4/5 on the 'was your car ready in a timely fashion' question and if enough of those happen my guys get screwed out of their money
I view the review scores here the same way - especially if the issue is the USPS which is totally out of ALL of our hands.
IMHO as long as the order gets shipped out within 24 hours, which honestly should never be an issue unless its over a weekend and the vendor only ships M-F (which is their right to have a life, and I dont like the idea of packs sitting for days,) they deserve a 5/5
if the order is short or fake thats a different deal, but if it goes out in a day, and shows up in 3-5 its all gravy baby 8)
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this is just my opinion on the matter:
I work in the car business and my sales/service guys live & die by their CSI scores (customer service index) if they dont get all "yes" and 5/5 responses they dont get their bonus money and alot of the time they get dinged for things out of their control - eg, we sell Porsches/Audis/Chevys/(and the few remaining SAAB's we have) and we ONLY offer hand car washes. On a nice day we can have 20 people in queue to get their cars washed at the end of their oil change or summer tire swap, and the guys can get perfect scores for the actual work but they'll get a 4/5 on the 'was your car ready in a timely fashion' question and if enough of those happen my guys get screwed out of their money
I view the review scores here the same way - especially if the issue is the USPS which is totally out of ALL of our hands.
IMHO as long as the order gets shipped out within 24 hours, which honestly should never be an issue unless its over a weekend and the vendor only ships M-F (which is their right to have a life, and I dont like the idea of packs sitting for days,) they deserve a 5/5
if the order is short or fake thats a different deal, but if it goes out in a day, and shows up in 3-5 its all gravy baby 8)
I'm in the car business, too, and I know exactly what you mean. Might as well just ask "Were you satisfied" - yes or no- instead of having a 1-5 scoring system that docks you for things beyond your control and where anything less than a 5/5 counts as essentially the same score.
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There are several problems with SR feedback.
1. No transparency as to how its calculated. This just screams bullshit to me.
2. No buyer feedback. This makes it easy for anyone (esp LE) to become troll buyers and sink vendor feedback. It keeps vendors in the dark about potential scam-buyers. I personally had bad experiences with a few scammers that had burned other vendors before and could have avoided them.
3. Too much punishment for one bad score. One 1/5 can drop your score 10+ points, even if your last 20 scores were 5/5. But a 5/5 only raises your score back up less than a point.
4. Endless editing capability for the buyer. You leave feedback once and that should be it. Leaving the option of changing it later has no other use except for trolls to use it to make threats to change your feedback after the order is completed if you don't do what they want. Total bullshit.
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One of the several reasons the current feedback system should be changed. I love thinking up ways to improve the site, and I can't seem to find my posts detailing this already, so here's another go at it...
This is not eBay, or Amazon, or any other online marketplace. Due to its nature, this place is entirely unique. Therefore, its feedback system should not be made to model any other system based solely on the idea that it will simplify things, because it ends up making people have a harder time making decisions. What does "Seller Name (100)" mean, at a glance? That the seller has a perfect record? The seller has a lot of sales? Not necessarily either of those two. Top percentiles make this even more confusing. So...
Proposed major changes
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Assigned Feedback:
First off, you have the option of leaving feedback. You don't have to. People who don't care about issues in life aren't forced to vote, and that's a good thing. Why should you influence the system with a vote if your opinion is uneducated and you concede as much? So the option is to finalize and leave feedback, or just finalize and not influence the vendor's score in any way. In the latter, your assigned feedback would be 0 on the scale of 0-3 (explained below)
3- Feedback auto-posted to forums, because it's believed to be of particular importance (not to be abused)
2- Feedback submitted, scores submitted
1- Feedback submitted, no scores submitted
0- Feedback not submitted
If you do choose to finalize and leave feedback, you can decide how strong your feedback is when determining the vendor's overall score. By this I mean you, the buyer, choose how much impact you will have on your vendor. If you feel strongly about your experience, then you assign your feedback a 3. This has the same score-impact as 2, but it will also post a copy of your review on the vendor's page in the forums (mentioned below), as well as allow people to "upvote" your review, Reddit-style (don't kill me- mentioned at the very end*). A 2 is automatically the default when giving feedback; it has the same function as all current feedback. A 1 would allow you to give feedback to the seller, but you whatever score value you give to them isn't calculated in their overall score. This is when, for instance, you wish to convey information about your experience with the vendor but you don't feel you wish to have an impact on their score. Perhaps a shipping delay that wasn't the vendor's fault, and thus you don't want to hurt their score. A 0, as mentioned above, skips the feedback process entirely.
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Numeric system overhaul:
Let's talk about a recent purchase John Doe made. He paid good coin for an item that was advertised as one RC, but it ended up being another. That's ok for him though, it was another one he was planning on getting. Shipping was great! It came in 2 days. Packaging was alright, not that stealthy, but no big deal. Weight was spot on. The seller communication was superb, as the vendor talked him through every issue he had. So what does John give for a feedback rating?
Some argue a 5. If the vendor talked him through to the end and they're both happy, then no need for anything else.
Some argue a 4. Even though they're both happy, technically everything wasn't perfect, so it couldn't be a 5.
Some argue a 3. Some things were superb, but (multiple) others weren't. So middle of the scoring.
Some argue a 2. The seller was too unreliable. Product mixed up, but good communication. Fast shipping, but not stealthy.
Some argue a 1. Mixing up product is inexcusable. What if he were allergic? He could have died.
This is an extreme example, but everyone has seen those "4- product is good"s and wonder, "ok. But why isn't it a 5?" or those 1's with no other feedback left.
Every transaction is subjective, and I think it's better that we have a more systematic way of looking at things. Now there are 5 categories that you can assign zero, one, or two points. Zero means the seller failed in that regard, one means the seller kinda got it right, and two means the seller got it right.
Stealth- Shipping time and stealth, one point for each.
Communication- if you feel communication was sufficient, then both points (if you didn't feel the need to contact your vendor at all, then both points by default). If there was some delay and no explanation on the seller page for said delay, only one point.
Weight- as long as it's spot on or over, both points assigned. Slightly under, only one point.
Product as advertised- i.e. crystals vs. powder, color, type of container, etc.
Quality- This may be given an auto-2 until adjusted later, as oftentimes people don't try the product until long after receiving it.
This gives the vendor a total score out of 10. Breaking it down and reviewing each category is more specific and leads to less confusion as to what a 1-5/5 (or in the new case, 1-10/10) means. Outside of Quality, feedback cannot be edited, unless a complaint is raised and mediation is needed.
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Buyer Feedback:
Simply put, buyers get feedback from their sellers. Nothing as detailed as sellers' feedback, maybe not even a score but a list of small blurbs about them from their previous vendors, but some sort of feedback nonetheless.
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Anonymity in feedback:
By default, sellers do not see what buyers gave them what feedback. Buyers do not see their own feedback, and sellers cannot change feedback left for a buyer. [note- been awake for 24 hours now, so at this point I'm losing focus. Some parts may be incomplete]. This is to prevent holding feedback hostage from the other party. Sellers may request a resolution on a particular piece of feedback, which would bring an SR moderator (since DPR has better things he should be doing, like maintaining a multi-million dollar enterprise) hired just to sift through dozens of reports a day to mediate the problem. The buyer may be revealed after both pieces of feedback have been left, but only due to an impasse in mediation.
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Finalizing Early:
There is an option for the buyer to finalize early after the seller marks it in-transit. This skips the feedback process until the buyer wishes to submit feedback, and leaves a mark on the seller's page indicating someone has FE. Too many recent FE will remove the seller's rating from everywhere but his Detailed Feedback Page (DFP, explained below), meaning no (100) or whatever number next to his name.
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Forums:
There is a sub forum, perhaps an overhaul of the Rumor Mill, that has a list of every vendor, with the opening post amendable by the vendor, and subsequent posts by anyone wishing to discuss the vendor. Posts with some special indication (pretty colors, different font, whatever) are indicative of a piece of feedback given a '3' priority, as mentioned above. This post is anonymous unless unmasked by the one giving the feedback. Identifying information on that post includes how many purchases the person has made, so feedback copied to the forum with a "1 Purchase Made" in the corner may not be taken as serious as "35 Purchases Made." In addition, there is a limit to how many pieces of feedback you may auto-copy to the forums per month. Perhaps one out of every five pieces of feedback can be copied to the forums using this feature, or you get the privilege after spending so many total BTC on the site... I'm not sure, but something that would make it hard to abuse. You can post your own copies of feedback manually, but you will obviously have to identify yourself and leave yourself open to questioning.
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Detailed Feedback Page:
In addition to the Seller Page, which is simply a "Hello, I am..." followed by a list of products and brief list of feedback, there is the Detailed Feedback Page. This page contains every feedback ranked 1-3 by the buyers, and every comment made about them. This information is stored in a table that can be rearranged by date range (weekly, can't check daily purchases for security reasons), feedback type (stealth, communication, etc.), high scores vs. low scores, or community vote. Perhaps other ways of organization as well. Here the seller is assigned an overall score, with the math given. This number is the number in "Seller X (98)" but if the seller has too many FE, only on this page is this number given. This is to direct people to see this page for vendors who do not have a recent track record to base a score on.
*I mentioned an up-vote system for feedback assigned a 3 by the buyer. By this I mean people can vote on any feedback given this level of importance and the feedback with the highest Ups vs. Downs ratio is by default put at the top of a list organized by this method.
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By using these methods of tracking and calculating feedback, I think Silk Road could vastly improve, though I may have over or under-thought some details that would make more sense in a different light. Not every specific detail I feel has to be followed, and by no means do I think anything here is inherently necessary or unnecessary, but I think it's a good framework for what could change this site from its current state to one that is much more free of scammers on both ends, as well as giving a better shopping experience to those who wish to see a more empirical way of handling feedback.
So anyway, didn't mean to threadjack. I just felt like this was the appropriate thread discussing how vague the current system is.
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New vendors suffer badly from bad feedback. I worked very hard to maintain a 100% rating until one customer made two orders, therefore giving him the advantage to leave TWO bad ratings (which were lies) Out of 59 transactions running at 100%, his two bad ratings dropped me to 94% and from the top 40% of sellers, down to the lower 95% of sellers. All my other feedback was complimentary and exemplary...
I agree that buyers should not have the advantage to re-rate after their first rating, and sellers should be able to either blacklist or rate buyers as well. If sellers had that option, certain buyers would be a little less quick to rate vendors badly or not as well as they should have. They get their product and then leave a less than 5/5 just because of some or another technicality that they perceive...
Buyers should also be rated by vendors, so we can see which are troublemakers or scammers.
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There are several problems with SR feedback.
1. No transparency as to how its calculated. This just screams bullshit to me.
2. No buyer feedback. This makes it easy for anyone (esp LE) to become troll buyers and sink vendor feedback. It keeps vendors in the dark about potential scam-buyers. I personally had bad experiences with a few scammers that had burned other vendors before and could have avoided them.
3. Too much punishment for one bad score. One 1/5 can drop your score 10+ points, even if your last 20 scores were 5/5. But a 5/5 only raises your score back up less than a point.
4. Endless editing capability for the buyer. You leave feedback once and that should be it. Leaving the option of changing it later has no other use except for trolls to use it to make threats to change your feedback after the order is completed if you don't do what they want. Total bullshit.
Amen!
However, editing feedback can cut both ways. I've had a few buyers hastily leave bad feedback without raising their concerns with me first or allowing a reasonable time-frame for resolution, and editing feedback allowed the issues to be resolved to both parties satisfaction.
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we need to move on from the ridiculous ?/5 system.
I think SR should take one out of the page of Black Market Reloaded and change feedback to emulate the one over there. it is worlds better than over here.
1. SELLERS LEAVE FEEDBACK ON BUYERS
2. There are 4 Options for feedback Positive, Neg, Neutral, and I dont want to leave feedback
it is a much more user friendly system IMPO
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we need to move on from the ridiculous ?/5 system.
I think SR should take one out of the page of Black Market Reloaded and change feedback to emulate the one over there. it is worlds better than over here.
1. SELLERS LEAVE FEEDBACK ON BUYERS
2. There are 4 Options for feedback Positive, Neg, Neutral, and I dont want to leave feedback
it is a much more user friendly system IMPO
+1
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4/5 is basically a 1/5 it means the vendor screwed up some how and SR customers demand that thier internet drug dealers go on standards that no real life drug dealer would ever even entertain.
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4/5 is basically a 1/5 it means the vendor screwed up some how and SR customers demand that thier internet drug dealers go on standards that no real life drug dealer would ever even entertain.
+1 Amen!
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I generally second the proposal that a 4 should be considered positive and not impact the 100. Yes, vendors should not be so attached to that number. However, the reality is that it is the first thing customers - particularly new customers - see. A customer leaving a 4 is usually generally satisfied and had a positive experience, but there is something that could have gone a little better. It would become a way to give a heads up to the vendor without *really* dinging them.
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Sorry to re-ignite a new topic, just wondering how feedback works...
I have 69 transactions, one 4/5 (complained shipping could have been a bit faster) and one 1/5 (jealous buyer? was a new account on SR)
Taking both as negatives, as this thread seems to suggest, should be 67/69 = 97%
Any one have any idea why?
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It would make sense to me that because we view a vendor's feedback rating as a percentile we should be able to leave our feedback in the same manner.
For example, if I buy something and the vendor ships it on time but the product isn't quite as nice as described, but is still of a standard where I don't consider myself to have been scammed, I'd like to be able to leave say, 95% positive thereby differentiating them from the genuine star vendors whilst still acknowledging they're pretty honest and are probably safe for others to deal with. In this situation but using the current #/5 system, it would be pretty harsh to give them only 80% so erring on the side of caution and giving a slightly undeserved 5/5 becomes the lesser of two evils.
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Why can't we sort buyer reviews by ratings like amazon.com? If I see blank 4/5s I wouldn't hold it against the vendor.
When I see lots of 3/5s "not stealthy holy shit why am I not in jail!?"... I will have reason to pause. This seller is obviously real, but hes not obviously GOOD. If all of those 3/5s were 7 months ago, he had no lower ratings, and his front 10 pages of transactions are mostly stellar... This is obviously a vendor that had a rocky start but improved.
The more information the buyers can have, the safer and better off the whole website is.
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Imo 5/5 and 4/5 should count as positive feedback, keeping our beloved 100 rating alive, 3/5 should be neutral and 2/5 and 1/5 should count as negative feedback.
Because for example I got this feedback: Shipping took ages!(domestic) Good product and packaging
I can't help it it took a little longer than normal for the package to arrive, I did my part by shipping it fast. I think it's unfair losing my (100) because of this.
Just my two cents though ;)
Vendor feedback ratings on the main site are only a small piece of the puzzle and are all too often manipulated with bogus shill accounts. If you want to make an informed choice you have to use the forums like your bible before pulling the trigger on an order, the whole feedback rating system is flawed big time imho especially when it is so subjective in its current format.
If you have any issues you should contact the vendor first before leaving feedback, that is the only honorable thing to do, I can fully sympathize with vendors who are either held to ransom over threats of a bad review or have bad reviews posted with no effort to resolve issues first.
Shipping delays are often out of the vendors hands, to leave bad feedback because of that when you can prove it was shipped on time is just stupid. It maybe a generational thing with many buyers treating this place like fucking eBay.
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There are several problems with SR feedback.
1. No transparency as to how its calculated. This just screams bullshit to me.
2. No buyer feedback. This makes it easy for anyone (esp LE) to become troll buyers and sink vendor feedback. It keeps vendors in the dark about potential scam-buyers. I personally had bad experiences with a few scammers that had burned other vendors before and could have avoided them.
3. Too much punishment for one bad score. One 1/5 can drop your score 10+ points, even if your last 20 scores were 5/5. But a 5/5 only raises your score back up less than a point.
4. Endless editing capability for the buyer. You leave feedback once and that should be it. Leaving the option of changing it later has no other use except for trolls to use it to make threats to change your feedback after the order is completed if you don't do what they want. Total bullshit.
+1 My thoughts exactly.
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Sorry just to re-iterate
I have 69 transactions, one 4/5 (complained shipping could have been a bit faster) and one 1/5 (jealous buyer? was a new account on SR)
Taking both as negatives, as this thread seems to suggest, should be 67/69 = 97%
Any one have any idea why by feedback is only 93%? Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
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What do you do in this case:
- Bought expensive product and it was very poor quality. (Heroin #4, 1/2 g for $240.)
- Already Finalized thinking it was all good at first glance until I tried it.
- Sent vendor msg asking what is up with the poor product that almost poisoned me?. No replies for days.
- Was angry with vendor so I left a 1/5 rating and wrote the truth in the feedback field
- Vendor wrote back with threatening words that I better change it or else, that he would tell all other vendors to blacklist me.
- I never asked for a refund, only a better product on my next order. I asked if we could resolve the issue on the next order. Vendor said no. No resolutions. Change the rating or else suffer the consequences!
- I was too scared to get banned or ruin my great buyer record. I didn't want my next order of heroin to poison me or anything like that..
- I changed it to a 4/5 in fear of any consequences. I also deleted the truthful feedback and wrote a lie . Good vendor great product..as if.. .
What went wrong here?
I still got ripped off. (I bought 1/2 g of heroin for $240. and it was all cut. It burned in my veins and clogged the syringe and I had to toss the rest in fear of what it really might be)
No resolution and threatened. Again, I use IV drugs so I'm fearful someone will do something stupid on my next order.
I'm afraid to write truthful bad reviews for fear of retaliation from the vendor. The Vendor forum could be used to get back at a buyer for writing a bad, but truthful review.
I've been selectively scammed by a huge and reputable vendor as well. I felt soooo dirty writing the feedback 5/5 good vendor. In reality, the package of MDMA I ordered came as a white powder that tasted like icing sugar. In fact, it was. (Sigh) I wrote to the vendor and explained, the vendor said "All my reviews are great. You are the only one complaining. . " He was right. So I bit the cost and wrote a positive review, just so I don't get blacklisted or upset the few domestic vendors I have to choose from There aren't many domestic vendors in Canada to start being picky-choosy, so I have to take the abuse... sadly.
There must be a better way?
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Hey guys, the feedback score is explained in the SR wiki. It gives pretty good info on how the scores are calculated.
Here is the link for thoes who want to check it out.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Feedback_Score
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There are several problems with SR feedback.
1. No transparency as to how its calculated. This just screams bullshit to me.
2. No buyer feedback. This makes it easy for anyone (esp LE) to become troll buyers and sink vendor feedback. It keeps vendors in the dark about potential scam-buyers. I personally had bad experiences with a few scammers that had burned other vendors before and could have avoided them.
3. Too much punishment for one bad score. One 1/5 can drop your score 10+ points, even if your last 20 scores were 5/5. But a 5/5 only raises your score back up less than a point.
4. Endless editing capability for the buyer. You leave feedback once and that should be it. Leaving the option of changing it later has no other use except for trolls to use it to make threats to change your feedback after the order is completed if you don't do what they want. Total bullshit.
The feedback system sucks on here for exactly those reasons. It is nice to see it pinpointed.
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I think it should just be an +1 or -1 rating with feedback on each transaction. ( I guess like Karna)
Either the customer is satisfied with transaction (IRL ot not) And moves on. Customer is Happy... THIS IS THE REASON FOR SR. Leave feedback, with ALL HONESTY. No drama or beef.
=================================
IF YOU ARE NOT happy ,,,,,leave an honest opinion (way after working with the vendors}.,.. to simply explain why your not happy. packing, speed, communication or whatever.
STAY IN ESCROW. You are on your own in that dept. If you go out of escrow, NO ONE HERE WILL CARE.
If you have exhausted all resources.....THEN bring it to the forum, YOU WILL GET MUCH SUPPORT IF YOU COME HERE WITH A GOOD CASE.
I am pushing vendors and buyers to STRICTLY use the escrow system. It has saved me a few times and maintained my buyer stats.
I understand that some vendors (even the best) still will require FE, there are too many scammers on here. Good luck and god speed if you do.
This doesn't mean you will never get scammed. This place is bound to have it. Don't spend more than you can afford lose.
AND REMEMBER NO 'BODY' IS WORTH ANY AMOUNT OF DRUGS. MAYBE JUST A KNEE CAP. THIS IS A SITE OF ANONYMITY. I KNOW IT SUCKS, BUT WOULD YOU RATHER EVERYONE HERE KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE,
BAD NEWS. AND! IT IS REALLY EASY TO FIND OUT ABOUT PEOPLE.
Welcome to to 2012. Live and learn. AND KEEP LEARNING AND LEARNING. You will do better for yourself. Especially on here.
karma sucks balls I have like a ton of negative karma because people don't agree or don;t like my opinion so some loser without saying anything to the face goes and puts - while secretly jacking off.
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What do you do in this case:
- Bought expensive product and it was very poor quality. (Heroin #4, 1/2 g for $240.)
- Already Finalized thinking it was all good at first glance until I tried it.
- Sent vendor msg asking what is up with the poor product that almost poisoned me?. No replies for days.
- Was angry with vendor so I left a 1/5 rating and wrote the truth in the feedback field
- Vendor wrote back with threatening words that I better change it or else, that he would tell all other vendors to blacklist me.
- I never asked for a refund, only a better product on my next order. I asked if we could resolve the issue on the next order. Vendor said no. No resolutions. Change the rating or else suffer the consequences!
- I was too scared to get banned or ruin my great buyer record. I didn't want my next order of heroin to poison me or anything like that..
- I changed it to a 4/5 in fear of any consequences. I also deleted the truthful feedback and wrote a lie . Good vendor great product..as if.. .
What went wrong here?
I still got ripped off. (I bought 1/2 g of heroin for $240. and it was all cut. It burned in my veins and clogged the syringe and I had to toss the rest in fear of what it really might be)
No resolution and threatened. Again, I use IV drugs so I'm fearful someone will do something stupid on my next order.
I'm afraid to write truthful bad reviews for fear of retaliation from the vendor. The Vendor forum could be used to get back at a buyer for writing a bad, but truthful review.
I've been selectively scammed by a huge and reputable vendor as well. I felt soooo dirty writing the feedback 5/5 good vendor. In reality, the package of MDMA I ordered came as a white powder that tasted like icing sugar. In fact, it was. (Sigh) I wrote to the vendor and explained, the vendor said "All my reviews are great. You are the only one complaining. . " He was right. So I bit the cost and wrote a positive review, just so I don't get blacklisted or upset the few domestic vendors I have to choose from There aren't many domestic vendors in Canada to start being picky-choosy, so I have to take the abuse... sadly.
There must be a better way?
Hey man, sorry to hear about that. I had a buyer give me a 1/5 rating, and then tell me that I should die in a car accident and my kids get raped to death and that he will call the cops on me (WTF eh?).
Typically it is the buyer who can threaten, honestly I don't think this seller would have the power to convince all sellers to avoid you, especially if your refund rate is low/0
You should just go ahead and leave him a 1/5 rating, if thats what you feel he deserves. This idiots 1/5 review (the one the buyer made on my vendor account) has made other people doubt my product and is ruining my seller account, who knew one little thing could make such a big difference. If I could find that loser I would definitely commit my first homicide.
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I agree that 4/5 feedback should not relfect that negatively on a vendors rating.
I would give 4/5 feedback, for example, when i receive an order in perfectly condition but after 4 weeks instead of 2, if the vendor indicated 2 weeks delivery time.
If something like that happens, as a buyer you should not leave a perfect score as it arrived later than promised. If the product is good and arrived well packaged and all, but just a bit late, there is no reason to leave negative feedback either. A 4/5 score would, imo, be appropriate for such a scenario. This should not severely damage a vendors reputation though, a small mistake has been made, but there is no reason to consider the vendor unreliable in general for that.
Perhaps feedback should actually be split in two: one rating for meeting the promised delivery time, and another for product quality. This way buyers can express their disappointment with slow shipping without confusion about the quality of the product.
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I see what you're saying Ben, but noone can promise a delivery time. That's out of the vendor's hands. One can only use the service that is provided and that generally does a great job, but occasionally a package takes a bit longer than expected, oh well. Vendors can only promise refunds or reships, they can't promise a date of delivery.
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I'm sure whoever runs SR, DPR if you will, knows all about these issues but I doubt they have the man-power or the time to implement these things. I'm no web designer but I think these changes would be quite the hassle.
If they ever get to redesigning the system I think leaving buyer feedback should be at the top of the list. Scammers, auto-finalizers, beggars, and inbox bombers would quickly fade away
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i think the ratings should be split up. so like, you give one rating based on service and another rating based on product
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Well one thing that I never do is get in touch with the seller before putting my comments, unless the purchase has gone really wrong or badly.
A review should be of the service and products you've received, or not received. If there's one or two things that you're not happy about, then that should be reflected in the review, with as much of a drop in rating as the buyer deems acceptable.
When the review is submitted, it should be the sellers responsibility to offer an amicable resolution to any problems, if he or she chooses to do so. If not, how on Earth can any vendor get angry about what the customer says... as far as I was always concerned, "The Customer is Always Right".
I wrote a review for one vendor (before receing products) at 1/5. Simple really - I was forced to FE when the order should have just been cancelled, and the seller lied to me on 3 occasions about when the items was posted out. Well, seller honesty is very important to me. The seller's response as soon as I made the 1/5 rating was two words in a private message... "fuck you".
Upon receipt of the products, I then changed the rating to a 3/5 but no higher due to the lack of professionalism.
I'm sick and tied of being made out to be the bad guy, the person in the wrong, when all I'm responsible for doing is placing the order and giving the correct details regarding the package.
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Has someone made the Olympic figure skating comparison? Used to be the same thing.
The _/5 rating system is broken. Vendors overreact to sub-5/5 scores, owing to a real or imagined overreaction from buyers who in a competitive market may overlook buyers who don't have perfect ratings for the next vendor over who does.
As a noob, I felt like I had no choice but to give perfect scores, or maybe not rate at all if there was trouble. Vendors (in my less-competitive market) were already requiring FE in some cases, and I avoided a couple of vendors who seemed to take a vindictive attitude toward any and every perceived slight. Again, in a less-competitive market, losing a vendor or two may mean losing a product, if you're only buying domestic.
So I have a couple of mild issues with packages. I leave 5/5 and take it to PM with the vendor, in polite terms. Twice I've done this. No reply. So now I've gone and let my fellow SR members down by not flagging issues in public feedback, and I won't buy from these vendors again because with zero reply I have no idea if they're going to do something stupid and petty with a second shipment.
I'd like to see ratings broken down. Naturally, a quantitative score is easier to compare, but have categories: _/5 product quality, _/5 stealth, _/5 vendor communication, _/5 delivery on time. This would be far more informative for other buyers. It would be a little less likely to set vendors off because they lost a point somewhere (though unreasonable people can continue to be unreasonable). But whether the system changes or stays the way it is, the only way the full 5-point system becomes acceptable to use is if people use it. Vendors are less likely to get anxious about a single lost point when practically nobody else has perfect scores either.
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And it's been said before by others and I'll repeat it here: there needs to be a major conversation about internal vs. external stealth, because there are really two very divergent camps on this. One thinks that "opened package means you're instantly fucked" is 5/5 stealth so long as nobody decides to open that package. To the rest of us, that isn't stealth at all.
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i think maybe the best course of action when ur dissatisfied with the vendor is to leave 5/5 feedback and then go trash them on the forum under a pseudonym. sadly, you never know if a dealer keeps addresses to use for blackmail...its happened before.
or just wait a month and then go edit ur feedback so they might not notice who negged them
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Here, incidentally, is a stealth rating system I think would make sense:
0/5: exterior contaminated. Casual inspection reveals scent or sight of product. Canine magnet.
1/5: conspicuous package likely to lead to inspection, and product obvious on inspection (sight, smell). Canine magnet.
2/5: passable external packaging, but opening, or any breach in exterior reveals product. Foodsaver baggies. Canine magnet.
3/5: adequate exterior stealth. Adequate interior seals. However, open/torn package still reveals product.
4/5: stealthy. Well-sealed product with interior disguise - however, supposed contents tell no sensible story.
5/5: tailored camoflage. You might not realize, yourself, that you have been sent the product. Could be opened by LE/customs and sent still sent on.
Basically, if there's a vendor offering a product who would be a "5" on this list, nobody else stands a chance of my business (and I doubt I'm the only one) so long as he keeps stocking the product. A "3" I'll never deal with again, regardless.
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not sure if this has been said, but if you are doing something illegal that involves your name and adress, you want the best service possible.
would sure suck to get your name thrown on a list for having drugs sent to your house, right?
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Why not just scrap the whole "star" metric and just let people leave what reviews they want? Most people now leave a 5/5 and then write a bunch of negative stuff if they're pissed, and the vendors dont seem to mind.
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Here, incidentally, is a stealth rating system I think would make sense:
0/5: exterior contaminated. Casual inspection reveals scent or sight of product. Canine magnet.
1/5: conspicuous package likely to lead to inspection, and product obvious on inspection (sight, smell). Canine magnet.
2/5: passable external packaging, but opening, or any breach in exterior reveals product. Foodsaver baggies. Canine magnet.
3/5: adequate exterior stealth. Adequate interior seals. However, open/torn package still reveals product.
4/5: stealthy. Well-sealed product with interior disguise - however, supposed contents tell no sensible story.
5/5: tailored camoflage. You might not realize, yourself, that you have been sent the product. Could be opened by LE/customs and sent still sent on.
Basically, if there's a vendor offering a product who would be a "5" on this list, nobody else stands a chance of my business (and I doubt I'm the only one) so long as he keeps stocking the product. A "3" I'll never deal with again, regardless.
The whole current feedback rating system is flawed for a number of reasons. I am currently giving thought to a standardized rating scale that incorporates some of the shipping practices I am trying to promote in the stealth sticky in the shipping sub forum.
It is definitely an issue that deserves more discussion and I am hopeful more vendors will get on board and adopt safer practices, it may take a bit more of a push to get it happening though and that will require the support of the community.