Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: nomad bloodbath on January 23, 2013, 03:24 pm

Title: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nomad bloodbath on January 23, 2013, 03:24 pm
You know that for this forum to work properly a line has to be drawn where saying somethings are going too far, I'd like some opinions on where that line might lie.

X)
nomad
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: astor on January 23, 2013, 04:17 pm
There's nothing wrong with censoring ass hats. Good moderation is required to maintain a healthy community. AskScience is considered one of the best subreddits on reddit precisely because the mods are ruthless in deleting off topic posts, jokes, memes, etc. Now,  you don't have to go that far, because this community engages in a wider range of discussions, but a good line to draw is, "is this person annoying the piss out of everyone?"

BTW, as I said in the other thread, freedom of speech is a right granted by a government not to interfere with your expression. It doesn't mean ass hats can use someone else's property to spout off. There's an old saying that freedom of speech belongs to him who can afford a printing press.

Or in this case, a server.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: scout on January 23, 2013, 05:30 pm
The new forum does have a lot of spam from people trying to reach 50 posts, I agree, but in a sense, I think that's better than the btkoin and virwex and bitcointalks spam because at least the people trying to get to 50 posts aren't scamming people out of their money.  So it's definitely a step in the right direction, though I don't think it would hurt to put a limit on how many times new members can post in an hour or something.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: TrashBox on January 23, 2013, 05:56 pm
I don't like censorship. If one is offended by a post can't they simply ignore it and move on? Take joywind, for instance... I just started skipping right over his posts. I don't agree with anything he has to say but I don't care if he posts it. Usually he gets ripped apart, but the worst that can happen is he gets ignored.

It's actually easy for me to ignore spam,too. Annoying, yes. It clutters up the forum and I'm sure I miss some good threads bc of it, but i guess freedom of speech (especially in a place like this) should prevail in my opinion.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Scampony on January 23, 2013, 07:53 pm
I believe if a member produces nothing but trash posts for every post then that member should lose the privilege of posting.For all account that equals a spam account. It spams trash and at the desecration of the Forum Staff members can be removed.

I mean what good is a post with say,  just a ~ symbol? That's not a form of speech it's a waste of space.It's not censorship it's cleaning house.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Tarnished on January 23, 2013, 08:11 pm
I would say the goal should be primarily to censor obvious trolls along with spam/scam posts.

As far as what constitutes trolling, I'd paraphrase the Potter-Stewart definition of pornography: you know it when you see it.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: rosannebar on January 23, 2013, 08:44 pm
My humble opinion is this:

This is a *silk road forum*  I think posts should be about what 99% of the people here want to read.

It isn't a opinion post,  it isn't a favorite food post,  so what should a mod's job be?   It should represent the majority.    It isn't about someone taking away your free speech.

Think of it as a school, where most of the students are trying to learn, and there is that *one guy* who insists on cutting up and bullying others.   It simply cannot be allowed.

The purpose of Sr is for people to get medicine or recreational drugs of their choice.  A wonderful freedom, that some people can't find on the street.  The purpose of this forum is to assist people on the journey down that road, to make it as smooth as possible, and protect members from scams.     

This is not a platform to debate if you should post about other ethnic groups, or bash other members.   

Now, all that being said,  nobody is over moderating here.     Mod's delete spam, and try to keep things running smooth as possible, so  I say, yes, ban someone for posting hate speech, ban someone for spamming,  this is not the place for that.    We are all adults,  everyone should act like it.      Nobody want's to censor your thoughts or questions about Sr,  heck there is even a *off topic* thread for any general ramblings someone may have. 

Let's all try and get along, we all dislike spam,  we all dislike seeing nothing but fights and finger pointing threads.   We all want  everyone to be happy and safe.  We are all equal.     *one love*
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nuyt on January 23, 2013, 09:18 pm
Personally I think only the people who show zero interest in posting anything other than spam/BS/trolling should get the hammer. I don't mind the occasional bull shit post, but when all someone does is spread crap, that's when a mod should step and have words with the offender.

And honestly, I've seen that happen pretty regularly, so I'm pretty content tbh. The couple of times where I've wanted to ban or thumb someone with the censor stick myself, I've seen one or another mod step in and cool things down. So I think you guys are managing that balancing act pretty well so far.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: samesamebutdifferent on January 23, 2013, 10:01 pm
Personally given this isn't irl, this is a hosted server I would consider majority rules as an rough approximation of where that line should be. If someone is posting deliberately inflammatory stuff for no other purpose than trolling I don't see why the broader community should have to put up with it but it's clear some people feel very strongly that they have the right to post anything they please no matter what.

Look I get it, I know as an individual you choose to take offense and no one offends you... and if you take offense then whose fault is that? in reality no one but yourself but there has to be some boundaries on here otherwise things can get out of hand. There are many topics that could be considered highly offensive to some and not to others, it's not a black and white situation so from a mods perspective I don't have an agenda of my own, I'm just thinking about the good of the broader community.

The bottom line is this is supposed to primarily be a dark net drug site where buyers and vendors come together to discuss their business, it is not necessarily a platform for whatever topic you so choose to post on and those who cry foul when they have their wings clipped slightly are just demonstrating their immaturity and lack of understanding/empathy for others.



Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: sirius on January 23, 2013, 11:19 pm
I have a couple thoguhts. Firstly, it seems to me that a lot of threads particularly on the sr discussion forum could be better placed in one of the other sub-forums. Threads that involve petty trolling and name-calling wars between... whoever... and threads like "hey man, whats the strongest weed youve ever toked. I would also include threads with topics like asking for tips on selling pot to your college pals.. it's not relevant to the silk road. If you want to post some shit about how the FBI controls the silk road and Obama is preparing a weapons ban so that the DEA can commence busting everyone so we need our tinfoil hats... please put it in the security forum if nothing else ::)   This would at least keep the main board on track.
Secondly, the mods seem to do a pretty good job of balancing it all out already. I think that in most cases the offending posters are pretty obviously over the line when the mods step in. I'm usually relieved anyhow when the trolls are slain. this is not a free country, this is a free enterprise.. We don't have a first amendment right to be ignorant annoying assholes... Especially assholes who are trying to flame the very people who make the damn community possible in the first place!
If you don't like it go start your own revolution.

Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 23, 2013, 11:35 pm
hey btw, there's another image glitch. I see one of you mods has 5 avatar pics at the same time, also your bluetext mod status is in black text
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nomad bloodbath on January 23, 2013, 11:54 pm
hey btw, there's another image glitch. I see one of you mods has 5 avatar pics at the same time, also your bluetext mod status is in black text

Dude do you intentionally go off topic with every post you make?

X)
nomad
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Limetless on January 23, 2013, 11:56 pm
Spare not the rod when beating the child.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: sirius on January 24, 2013, 12:04 am
hey btw, there's another image glitch. I see one of you mods has 5 avatar pics at the same time, also your bluetext mod status is in black text
Considering the thread, the irony of how off topic the above post is strikes me as palpable (no offense dbz  :) ). I think that we should all work on some self-censorship skills to reduce the noise  :)
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: SorryMario on January 24, 2013, 12:06 am
You know that for this forum to work properly a line has to be drawn where saying somethings are going too far, I'd like some opinions on where that line might lie.

X)
nomad
I think the line lies right on the login page. Once you're on SR's forum property, the demand for "rights" is actually a demand for "services" (using the message board system). SR has no obligation to provide a forum to amplify anyone's freedom of speech.

Here's my opinion: If someone says something that DPR or the mods don't like - delete it. Perfectly fair. If I could make requests:

Any new threads begging for bitcoins - PLEASE DELETE!

Any threads by idiots who can't bear to wait 6 hours for their accounts to be credited - PLEASE DELETE! When I see these morons making these threads then giving up to the minute updates on the number of confirmations, I can only hope that the SR crew will deliberately make those impatient spammers wait as long as possible or even "lose" their coins. IRL being an impatient nuisance with drug dealers gets you one thing - BURNED cuz your a fucking annoying pussy who PISSES people off.

Any and all pointless "spam" posts made solely to get the post count up - PLEASE DELETE! The post count was somewhat useful in gauging how long the person had been participating in the forums and I used to look at people's post count/negative karma ratio as a vague indicator of how much non-stupid stuff they had to say. Sadly that changed with the "spam 50 posts to newbie forum before posting elsewhere" rule.

Any new threads asking how to use PGP - PLEASE DELETE! (if anything these questions should be posted as replies in the big PGP threads - or god forbid using the search engine to find the question has already been answered many times).

Political discussions and posts can be deleted at will. Personally I think it's an unnecessary risk to discuss personal political beliefs on this forum, since that may give clues to your real identity and help the narcoswine with their profiling.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Stray Cat on January 24, 2013, 12:30 am
The 1st Amendment allows us to express ourselves without interference by or from the federal government.  The 1st Amendment does not apply to private property so the line is where you and DPR say the line is, eh?

I have never really been offended by anything here, I have some of our crazier cousins on 'ignore' and there are some threads I don't even bother to open.  Having said that, I will admit to feeling a bit stung (kind of like an involuntary shudder) when ppl start throwing around the N word and the J word - when they are doing it just to be hurtful and just to inflame.  That, according to the Registration Agreement we all signed-off on, is a violation of forum rules. 

Here is the Agreement, please note the first paragraph:

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Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 24, 2013, 12:53 am
You know that for this forum to work properly a line has to be drawn where saying somethings are going too far, I'd like some opinions on where that line might lie.

X)
nomad
I think the line lies right on the login page. Once you're on SR's forum property, the demand for "rights" is actually a demand for "services" (using the message board system). SR has no obligation to provide a forum to amplify anyone's freedom of speech.

Here's my opinion: If someone says something that DPR or the mods don't like - delete it. Perfectly fair. If I could make requests:

Any new threads begging for bitcoins - PLEASE DELETE!

Any threads by idiots who can't bear to wait 6 hours for their accounts to be credited - PLEASE DELETE! When I see these morons making these threads then giving up to the minute updates on the number of confirmations, I can only hope that the SR crew will deliberately make those impatient spammers wait as long as possible or even "lose" their coins. IRL being an impatient nuisance with drug dealers gets you one thing - BURNED cuz your a fucking annoying pussy who PISSES people off.

Any and all pointless "spam" posts made solely to get the post count up - PLEASE DELETE! The post count was somewhat useful in gauging how long the person had been participating in the forums and I used to look at people's post count/negative karma ratio as a vague indicator of how much non-stupid stuff they had to say. Sadly that changed with the "spam 50 posts to newbie forum before posting elsewhere" rule.

Any new threads asking how to use PGP - PLEASE DELETE! (if anything these questions should be posted as replies in the big PGP threads - or god forbid using the search engine to find the question has already been answered many times).

Political discussions and posts can be deleted at will. Personally I think it's an unnecessary risk to discuss personal political beliefs on this forum, since that may give clues to your real identity and help the narcoswine with their profiling.

All these are good. Also any posts that are directly flaming, especially in a very long, drawn out argument.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Stray Cat on January 24, 2013, 01:14 am
I just had an idea - goes back to the Agreement we signed to create an account - our 'rules', so to speak.

The 1st paragraph says certain things are "forbidden" but does not spell out the consequences of being "...false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane..."

Solution:  DPR adds a sentence to the first paragraph outlining the consequences, deleting accounts, locking threads, etc.  That way the mods are off the hook as they are following DPR's directive [shrug]

Been a while since I said "thanks, mods" so THANKS for all you do  8)
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: sirius on January 24, 2013, 01:16 am
You know that for this forum to work properly a line has to be drawn where saying somethings are going too far, I'd like some opinions on where that line might lie.

X)
nomad
I think the line lies right on the login page. Once you're on SR's forum property, the demand for "rights" is actually a demand for "services" (using the message board system). SR has no obligation to provide a forum to amplify anyone's freedom of speech.

Here's my opinion: If someone says something that DPR or the mods don't like - delete it. Perfectly fair. If I could make requests:

Any new threads begging for bitcoins - PLEASE DELETE!

Any threads by idiots who can't bear to wait 6 hours for their accounts to be credited - PLEASE DELETE! When I see these morons making these threads then giving up to the minute updates on the number of confirmations, I can only hope that the SR crew will deliberately make those impatient spammers wait as long as possible or even "lose" their coins. IRL being an impatient nuisance with drug dealers gets you one thing - BURNED cuz your a fucking annoying pussy who PISSES people off.

Any and all pointless "spam" posts made solely to get the post count up - PLEASE DELETE! The post count was somewhat useful in gauging how long the person had been participating in the forums and I used to look at people's post count/negative karma ratio as a vague indicator of how much non-stupid stuff they had to say. Sadly that changed with the "spam 50 posts to newbie forum before posting elsewhere" rule.

Any new threads asking how to use PGP - PLEASE DELETE! (if anything these questions should be posted as replies in the big PGP threads - or god forbid using the search engine to find the question has already been answered many times).

Political discussions and posts can be deleted at will. Personally I think it's an unnecessary risk to discuss personal political beliefs on this forum, since that may give clues to your real identity and help the narcoswine with their profiling.

All these are good. Also any posts that are directly flaming, especially in a very long, drawn out argument.
Agreed! Also stray cat's post is good, especially in the context of some of the more immature users who use offensive slurs and whatnot because they are on an anonymous forum and so feel free to say all the words their mommy won't let them say at dinner.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 03:33 am
Okay I will try my best to have a proper discussion without berating the jews, here goes..

Personally given this isn't irl, this is a hosted server I would consider majority rules as an rough approximation of where that line should be.

I'm confused? You rightly believe majority rules but have no problem with mods censoring? So to you the majority refers to the majority of mods? All speech should be regulated by the people, not mods or the guys in power, ever. If I post nonsensical/incorrect/offensive/irrelevant shit all day then it won't take long before people stop responding and start ignoring to the point where I have to move on. The people are consistently the best and fairest when it comes to regulation of speech.

If someone is posting deliberately inflammatory stuff for no other purpose than trolling I don't see why the broader community should have to put up with it but it's clear some people feel very strongly that they have the right to post anything they please no matter what.

They don't have to put up with it, no one is forcing you to read anything, if you don't like the topic of discussion move on and let the people who do like it converse freely, simple.


Look I get it, I know as an individual you choose to take offense and no one offends you... and if you take offense then whose fault is that? in reality no one but yourself but there has to be some boundaries on here otherwise things can get out of hand. There are many topics that could be considered highly offensive to some and not to others, it's not a black and white situation so from a mods perspective I don't have an agenda of my own, I'm just thinking about the good of the broader community.

The bottom line is this is supposed to primarily be a dark net drug site where buyers and vendors come together to discuss their business, it is not necessarily a platform for whatever topic you so choose to post on and those who cry foul when they have their wings clipped slightly are just demonstrating their immaturity and lack of understanding/empathy for others.

You are just wrong here, just plain wrong and with all due respect to you, I'm sure you are a nice person and are obviously well intentioned, but you are not the type of person who should be moderating a forum based on libertarian/agorist principles. I'm sure the original DPR, if he is still around, would agree with me that anyone who advocates censorship for 'the good of the broader community', should not be a mod on this site. If you don't understand the effects of censorship, and can't see past the minute advantages it offers, well, read a book is all I'm gonna say. You are a moderator, you are here to help people and moderate, you are not the discussion police.

I guarantee you my view is the majority here, but the majority of people don't want to publicly disagree with the mods. If you are one of the people agreeing with censorship then you are part of the reason we have to buy/sell drugs anonymously, for shame.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 24, 2013, 03:43 am
Okay I will try my best to have a proper discussion without berating the jews, here goes..

Personally given this isn't irl, this is a hosted server I would consider majority rules as an rough approximation of where that line should be.

I'm confused? You rightly believe majority rules but have no problem with mods censoring? So to you the majority refers to the majority of mods? All speech should be regulated by the people, not mods or the guys in power, ever. If I post nonsensical/incorrect/offensive/irrelevant shit all day then it won't take long before people stop responding and start ignoring to the point where I have to move on. The people are consistently the best and fairest when it comes to regulation of speech.

If someone is posting deliberately inflammatory stuff for no other purpose than trolling I don't see why the broader community should have to put up with it but it's clear some people feel very strongly that they have the right to post anything they please no matter what.

They don't have to put up with it, no one is forcing you to read anything, if you don't like the topic of discussion move on and let the people who do like it converse freely, simple.


Look I get it, I know as an individual you choose to take offense and no one offends you... and if you take offense then whose fault is that? in reality no one but yourself but there has to be some boundaries on here otherwise things can get out of hand. There are many topics that could be considered highly offensive to some and not to others, it's not a black and white situation so from a mods perspective I don't have an agenda of my own, I'm just thinking about the good of the broader community.

The bottom line is this is supposed to primarily be a dark net drug site where buyers and vendors come together to discuss their business, it is not necessarily a platform for whatever topic you so choose to post on and those who cry foul when they have their wings clipped slightly are just demonstrating their immaturity and lack of understanding/empathy for others.

You are just wrong here, just plain wrong and with all due respect to you, I'm sure you are a nice person and are obviously well intentioned, but you are not the type of person who should be moderating a forum based on libertarian/agorist principles. I'm sure the original DPR, if he is still around, would agree with me that anyone who advocates censorship for 'the good of the broader community', should not be a mod on this site. If you don't understand the effects of censorship, and can't see past the minute advantages it offers, well, read a book is all I'm gonna say. You are a moderator, you are here to help people and moderate, you are not the discussion police.

I guarantee you my view is the majority here, but the majority of people don't want to publicly disagree with the mods. If you are one of the people agreeing with censorship then you are part of the reason we have to buy/sell drugs anonymously, for shame.

Really you believe that because this is a forum where "breaking the law" by taking whatever substances we want, dignifies hate speech? All i've seen you do is rant and rave about the mods, yet you have yet to say one thing that is legitimate that they have "censored". Your entire opinion for the last day has been about the mods. Either come up with something productive, or crawl back into your hole
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 04:31 am
Okay I will try my best to have a proper discussion without berating the jews, here goes..

Personally given this isn't irl, this is a hosted server I would consider majority rules as an rough approximation of where that line should be.

I'm confused? You rightly believe majority rules but have no problem with mods censoring? So to you the majority refers to the majority of mods? All speech should be regulated by the people, not mods or the guys in power, ever. If I post nonsensical/incorrect/offensive/irrelevant shit all day then it won't take long before people stop responding and start ignoring to the point where I have to move on. The people are consistently the best and fairest when it comes to regulation of speech.

If someone is posting deliberately inflammatory stuff for no other purpose than trolling I don't see why the broader community should have to put up with it but it's clear some people feel very strongly that they have the right to post anything they please no matter what.

They don't have to put up with it, no one is forcing you to read anything, if you don't like the topic of discussion move on and let the people who do like it converse freely, simple.


Look I get it, I know as an individual you choose to take offense and no one offends you... and if you take offense then whose fault is that? in reality no one but yourself but there has to be some boundaries on here otherwise things can get out of hand. There are many topics that could be considered highly offensive to some and not to others, it's not a black and white situation so from a mods perspective I don't have an agenda of my own, I'm just thinking about the good of the broader community.

The bottom line is this is supposed to primarily be a dark net drug site where buyers and vendors come together to discuss their business, it is not necessarily a platform for whatever topic you so choose to post on and those who cry foul when they have their wings clipped slightly are just demonstrating their immaturity and lack of understanding/empathy for others.

You are just wrong here, just plain wrong and with all due respect to you, I'm sure you are a nice person and are obviously well intentioned, but you are not the type of person who should be moderating a forum based on libertarian/agorist principles. I'm sure the original DPR, if he is still around, would agree with me that anyone who advocates censorship for 'the good of the broader community', should not be a mod on this site. If you don't understand the effects of censorship, and can't see past the minute advantages it offers, well, read a book is all I'm gonna say. You are a moderator, you are here to help people and moderate, you are not the discussion police.

I guarantee you my view is the majority here, but the majority of people don't want to publicly disagree with the mods. If you are one of the people agreeing with censorship then you are part of the reason we have to buy/sell drugs anonymously, for shame.

Really you believe that because this is a forum where "breaking the law" by taking whatever substances we want, dignifies hate speech? All i've seen you do is rant and rave about the mods, yet you have yet to say one thing that is legitimate that they have "censored". Your entire opinion for the last day has been about the mods. Either come up with something productive, or crawl back into your hole

You need to relax little brother and stop stalking me with your irrelevant, misguided rebuttals. I never said because we are allowed to buy drugs here that hate speech is dignified, how do the two even correlate? lol

If you want an example of legitimate censorship I'm sad you even have to ask, it took me about 100 posts to finally reach 50, but how about reading my first post if you want to rant with such omniscience. It was posted before these restrictive (censoring duh) new rules and it went a little exactly like this:


Hi guys, just thought I would register so I could thank the people who suggested exit through the gift shop and the truth about Gaddafi, both excellent docos.

One of my fave docos is called You're Gonna Miss Me, which is based on the life of psychedelic rock pioneer Roky Erickson. Although I'm obviously a big fan of Roky, this doco is quality and great for anyone regardless of what you think of his music, Roky has led an interesting life to say the least.

From wiki:
You're Gonna Miss Me is an American documentary film by Keven McAlester. It focuses on Roky Erickson, the former frontman for the band The 13th Floor Elevators. The band is cited as pioneers of the psychedelic rock sound. The film covers Erickson's rise to rock-and-roll icon status, his overuse of LSD, struggles with schizophrenia, and his 1969 marijuana arrest that led to stays at Austin State Hospital and Rusk State Hospital for the Criminally Insane.

I can't find a free link atm but I'm sure it has to be somewhere on the net.


^^^ Not exactly hate speech is it now? Nevertheless I was then CENSORED by not being allowed to post at all except for some newbie page filled with crap, as would be expected with such a silly premise. I could not even respond to a guy who had replied to me in that thread.

Don't reply to me, I have said all I needed to say on the subject of censorship and to be honest when I joined here in 2011 I never thought I would have to. This forum has become infested with people who agree with censorship and have no idea what the counterculture is or what it stands for, that is why these forums have died not because a couple of newbies were asking about pgp. If you do respond then my answer in advance is 'k', k?

Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 24, 2013, 04:37 am
mmm, i suppose you guys having access to the offtopic forum before 50 posts would be a good idea. The newbie section is(at least as far as i understand it) is for learning the rules of SR. I wish they had simply moved the thread, but with the current rules, you wouldn't have been allowed to post in it  :-\.

Nevertheless it doesn't justify this explosive rant. I understand your frustration, but lashing out isn't going to get anyone on your side.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 04:48 am
mmm, i suppose you guys having access to the offtopic forum before 50 posts would be a good idea. The newbie section is(at least as far as i understand it) is for learning the rules of SR. I wish they had simply moved the thread, but with the current rules, you wouldn't have been allowed to post in it  :-\.

Nevertheless it doesn't justify this explosive rant. I understand your frustration, but lashing out isn't going to get anyone on your side.

As stated before I don't want anyone on my side, this is an anon account I could care less. This was a protest and I exceeded well beyond my expectations, these new mods came here with a cop-like attitude and were shown that just one guy with too much time on his hands can be a real headache if he wants to be. Anyway, rant over and I have already deleted most of the troll threads, if anyone wants to know the final results of the gayest mods poll just pm me. Good day Sirs.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: astor on January 24, 2013, 05:06 am
That Agreement sounds like the standard boilerplate you might get with the forum software, or by Googling "what's a good forum user agreement". :)

That being said, it sounds good to me.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Christy Nugs on January 24, 2013, 06:15 am
Spare not the rod when beating the child.

time tested and verified!

What I want to know is "At what point does Nomad learn spelling and punctuation?".

never caught a buzz and misspelled anything? really?
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: grahamgreene on January 24, 2013, 06:28 am
[SNIP]
I'm sure the original DPR, if he is still around, would agree with me that anyone who advocates censorship for 'the good of the broader community', should not be a mod on this site. If you don't understand the effects of censorship, and can't see past the minute advantages it offers, well, read a book is all I'm gonna say. You are a moderator, you are here to help people and moderate, you are not the discussion police.

I guarantee you my view is the majority here, but the majority of people don't want to publicly disagree with the mods. If you are one of the people agreeing with censorship then you are part of the reason we have to buy/sell drugs anonymously, for shame.

[SNIP]
I have said all I needed to say on the subject of censorship and to be honest when I joined here in 2011 I never thought I would have to. This forum has become infested with people who agree with censorship and have no idea what the counterculture is or what it stands for, that is why these forums have died not because a couple of newbies were asking about pgp. [SNIP]

I'm afraid I have to agree with our protesting chum here. Censorship is detrimental in the extreme to the ultimate goal we are all screaming out for: freedom. I understand that certain things do need to be contained, but there are far too many new members here who are all too happy to turn to censorship in order to 'make this a better place'. In other words, to make it more familiar. When faced with dizzying amounts of freedom, something that is unattainable in one's daily life, one reaches out for the nearest thing that seems familiar - in this case, that is 'control'.

These members desire more moderators, and indeed, many volunteer themselves for the role without understanding the implications that granting moderator privileges to every Tom, Dick and Harry would have on an anonymous, open forum such as this. DPR picks his/her moderators very carefully, and the moderators we do currently have do an excellent job toeing the line between moderating and ensuring the freedoms that DPR has envisioned.

I've explained in the past the reasons that we need LESS moderators, not more; I'm not going to rehash my previous argument here but censorship and large scale moderation goes against the spirit of Silk Road, the spirit of the community and the intentions of DPR when setting up the marketplace and separating the forums from the marketplace itself. Censorship is downright dangerous.

DPR's interest lies around an Agorism based marketplace, with libertarian ideals at its core. These forums, as an outlet of (free) expression, must not be allowed the taste of censorship. If that occurs then it will be clear that we have abandoned the principles that guide this community; and when we abandon those principles, we lose all value that we place on our freedom.

- grahamgreene
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: scout on January 24, 2013, 06:39 am
Moderators are in a no-win situation when it comes to these matters -- if we lock threads that are racist/offensive/etc. then people get angry ... but if we don't lock those threads, people get angry.  It's a daily struggle to determine what, if anything, should be deleted or locked.  The only threads I've deleted are the threads of the virwex / bitcointalks spammers.  It's a difficult line to walk, but I know that I - and the other moderators - do the best we can to promote and allow freedom of speech while also keeping in mind that there are instances in which leaving a thread open becomes detrimental to the community.  It's a balancing act.  We don't always succeed in keeping everyone happy, but we're all trying to do the right thing in these situations.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 24, 2013, 07:01 am
Moderators are in a no-win situation when it comes to these matters -- if we lock threads that are racist/offensive/etc. then people get angry ... but if we don't lock those threads, people get angry.  It's a daily struggle to determine what, if anything, should be deleted or locked.  The only threads I've deleted are the threads of the virwex / bitcointalks spammers.  It's a difficult line to walk, but I know that I - and the other moderators - do the best we can to promote and allow freedom of speech while also keeping in mind that there are instances in which leaving a thread open becomes detrimental to the community.  It's a balancing act.  We don't always succeed in keeping everyone happy, but we're all trying to do the right thing in these situations.

Hey scout, dunno if you saw yet, there's another image glitch. You have 5 avatar pics displaying, and you're names aren't blue anymore
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nanpa2001 on January 24, 2013, 07:08 am
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: scout on January 24, 2013, 07:08 am
Yeah, I've noticed it, but when I try to provide "proof" to the admins, it never shows up.  lol.  But, yes, I've seen it and reported it -- I know DPR is busy so it may just take awhile to get it fixed.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: grahamgreene on January 24, 2013, 07:29 am
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.

Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up only because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 07:37 am
Moderators are in a no-win situation when it comes to these matters -- if we lock threads that are racist/offensive/etc. then people get angry ... but if we don't lock those threads, people get angry.  It's a daily struggle to determine what, if anything, should be deleted or locked.  The only threads I've deleted are the threads of the virwex / bitcointalks spammers.  It's a difficult line to walk, but I know that I - and the other moderators - do the best we can to promote and allow freedom of speech while also keeping in mind that there are instances in which leaving a thread open becomes detrimental to the community.  It's a balancing act.  We don't always succeed in keeping everyone happy, but we're all trying to do the right thing in these situations.

No doubt being an SR mod is a thankless job. I think I can help you with it though.

If they are angry because you deleted their thread; don't delete the thread, you are not a taste maker or the moral police.
If they cry because you won't lock a thread; tell them we value free speech here, no one is making them visit these forums. I saw Christy Nugs giving you shit for not taking down that possible scammer thread, fuck her, she's always been hormonal. Tell her you only have power to take down threads meeting a certain criteria, and if she doesn't like it then maybe the forums aren't meant for her. You are anonymous, why care what anyone here thinks?

Also other than those annoying spam threads that boot all the good threads to page two there is no such thing as a thread that is detrimental to the community. Sure, some are less interesting than others, but these forums have gotten along fine without ninja mods trimming it down.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: dbz4u on January 24, 2013, 07:50 am
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.

Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene

Fine, hate speech section, where you can rant and rave about the jews, blacks and whatever the fuck else you wierd people want them to be able to do. Just don't bring that shit onto the main forums and piss people off, there is a time and place for that(if ever), not in an argument over whether what you said should be where it was originally(as was roky's qualm).
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: grahamgreene on January 24, 2013, 07:59 am
Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene

Fine, hate speech section, where you can rant and rave about the jews, blacks and whatever the fuck else you wierd people want them to be able to do. Just don't bring that shit onto the main forums and piss people off, there is a time and place for that(if ever), not in an argument over whether what you said should be where it was originally(as was roky's qualm).

I am a 'weird person' because I wish everyone to have the opportunity to espouse their views, regardless of whether or not others agree/disagree or choose to be offended by those views?! That is absurd.  ???

I do agree with you regarding not bringing "that shit" up in the main Silk Road discussion sub-forum as it has nothing to do with Silk Road itself; such threads should be moved to the Off topic sub-forum - i.e. moderated, not censored.

- grahamgreene
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: scout on January 24, 2013, 08:04 am
Moderators are in a no-win situation when it comes to these matters -- if we lock threads that are racist/offensive/etc. then people get angry ... but if we don't lock those threads, people get angry.  It's a daily struggle to determine what, if anything, should be deleted or locked.  The only threads I've deleted are the threads of the virwex / bitcointalks spammers.  It's a difficult line to walk, but I know that I - and the other moderators - do the best we can to promote and allow freedom of speech while also keeping in mind that there are instances in which leaving a thread open becomes detrimental to the community.  It's a balancing act.  We don't always succeed in keeping everyone happy, but we're all trying to do the right thing in these situations.

No doubt being an SR mod is a thankless job. I think I can help you with it though.

If they are angry because you deleted their thread; don't delete the thread, you are not a taste maker or the moral police.
If they cry because you won't lock a thread; tell them we value free speech here, no one is making them visit these forums. I saw Christy Nugs giving you shit for not taking down that possible scammer thread, fuck her, she's always been hormonal. Tell her you only have power to take down threads matching a certain criteria, and if she doesn't like it then maybe the forums aren't meant for her. You are anonymous, why care what anyone here thinks?

Also other than those annoying spam threads that boot all the good threads to page two there is no such thing as a thread that is detrimental to the community. Sure, some are less interesting than others, but these forums have gotten along fine without ninja mods trimming it down.


Is it Christmas?!  This is the first time you've spoken decently to me!  :P

It's true - I can only delete threads from spammers/scammers, or people posting dangerous info.  Regarding freedom of speech, is there ever a point at which something should be done to try to quiet the storm if that speech begins to harm others? 

I'm well aware of my place and duty here, but I learn something new every day about how to approach these matters, and how to do a better job here.  Aside from the frustration of lacking a clear answer, these calmer discussions are thought-provoking. 

Both sides make some indisputable points.  Can we all at least agree that it's kind of fantastic to be part of a community where people with such differing philosophies can co-exist (for the most part)? 

In conclusion:
Ah, drugs, you wonderful sometimes-unifier of philosophical opponents!
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 08:16 am
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.

Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene

Fine, hate speech section, where you can rant and rave about the jews, blacks and whatever the fuck else you wierd people want them to be able to do. Just don't bring that shit onto the main forums and piss people off, there is a time and place for that(if ever), not in an argument over whether what you said should be where it was originally(as was roky's qualm).

Your lack of intelligence offends me, but don't worry, I still believe you have the right to shout your Republican party mantra at us.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: samesamebutdifferent on January 24, 2013, 08:31 am
This is a great discussion (now), a far cry from where all this started so I'm pleased to see it evolve into a robust and healthy exploration of ideas and views.

I'm happy to leave it at that and it has definitely given me food for thought.

This is a wonderful community of diverse individuals and I'm very happy to be a part of it.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: grahamgreene on January 24, 2013, 08:55 am
[SNIP]
Regarding freedom of speech, is there ever a point at which something should be done to try to quiet the storm if that speech begins to harm others? 

I'm well aware of my place and duty here, but I learn something new every day about how to approach these matters, and how to do a better job here.  Aside from the frustration of lacking a clear answer, these calmer discussions are thought-provoking. 

Both sides make some indisputable points.  Can we all at least agree that it's kind of fantastic to be part of a community where people with such differing philosophies can co-exist (for the most part)? 

In conclusion:
Ah, drugs, you wonderful sometimes-unifier of philosophical opponents!

Hi scout,

Personally I don't believe that there is ever a point where 'something should be done to try to quiet the storm if that speech begins to harm others'. Freedom of speech is, by its very definition, unshackled. If it offends someone, then that person needs to harden their sensibilities.
Where is the justice in silencing one person simply to allow another to enjoy that silence, or to censor a person so as another won't be offended? Offense is something we **choose** to partake in. Things only become offensive when a person wishes to push their views on another by refusing to accept that they are entitled to their own point of view.

We can all agree that it's incredible to be part of a community where people with sometimes opposing philosophies can co-exist; what makes that all possible, however, is freedom of expression.  :)

- grahamgreene
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nomad bloodbath on January 24, 2013, 09:26 am
What I want to know is "At what point does Nomad learn spelling and punctuation?".

Sorry Moon Unit but I was operating under a constant buzz yesterday and ask anyone in IRC, I start losing cognitive skills and tend to not care.
I was selfish in not thinking about the rest of the community that would be subjected to read my under the influence postings.

X)
nomad
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nanpa2001 on January 24, 2013, 11:35 am
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.

Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up only because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene

I am a libertarian. That means I am not confused about the difference between public and private, as you seem to be.

Make no mistake, this is a private forum, open to all, and no free speech issues are at stake here at all.

There is no total freedom here. Threads are deleted daily. Many are banned, usually spammers.

If there were prohibitionists coming here and posting anti-drug propaganda on threads about drugs, is deleting their comments or banning them 'oppression'. Certainly not. Your use of the term is too fast and loose, and totally irrelevant. Excluding people that don't want to join in your covenant is the most libertarian thing I can think of.

People are censored here at all times, no matter what you say. This thread is about discussing what sorts of posts would be censored, and what our community standards are going to be. I think scamming should be censored - it already is, but not vigorously enough. I would also extend that to begging.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: murungu on January 24, 2013, 11:42 am
We need codes of behavior, from stone tablets to silicon tablets it has been so.

The problem lies when one of the goats decides to be the goatherd and holds the flock to their own ethical standards, AND where these ethical standards are mainly aesthetic (they dun like porn) or seek unreasonable degrees of control, for 'our own good'.

The biggest backfire of censorship in human history has to be the torture and execution of a jew carpenter on a hill in the middle east two millenia ago. His followers went on to censor everyone else for far longer than has been hitherto necessary.

Amen, m.

Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Roky Erickson on January 24, 2013, 12:35 pm
Censorship to maintain the character of the forum is essential.

As this is a private forum, no free speech is infringed.

Hi nanpa2001,

I presume - going by the registration date shown on your profile - that you're relatively new here. I bring this up only because it implies that you don't know what this community was like prior to December 2012. Censorship has never been a part of our community. As it has never been a part of our community, it is neither essential nor required in any way in order to maintain the 'character' of the forums. The forums have changed a lot since I first joined, and its character with it. That will continue to change as the months and years go by.
Maintaining character is not the priority here; freedom is the priority here. I'm not talking about anybody infringing anyone's freedom of speech, I'm talking about freedom itself, represented by our ability to express ourselves freely without censorship here, which is the wish of the site's creator.

This is not a private forum - it is a public forum, denoted by the fact that it is open to membership for all. It is, however, a privately owned forum. Its owner is a person who disagrees with censorship, and has stated his/her intent and desires regarding this numerous times here. Read through the first few pages of DPR's posts and you'll get a better idea where I'm coming from when I say that censorship is not something that we should even consider here.

Moderation is required, yes, in order to keep the forums clear of spam and to ensure topics are posted / kept in the relevant sub-forums. Moderation is not the same as censorship. If someone wishes to espouse offensive thoughts here, they should be allowed to do so - in the interest of freedom. That is what Silk Road stands for; feedom against oppression. Censorship is the first step to oppression. I can say with near 100% certainty that if DPR weighs in on this debate that he/she will share my views on this particular topic. The reason I say that is as a result of his/her Agorist and Libertarian ideals, and his/her previous posts regarding the freedoms we enjoy here.

- grahamgreene

I am a libertarian. That means I am not confused about the difference between public and private, as you seem to be.

Make no mistake, this is a private forum, open to all, and no free speech issues are at stake here at all.

There is no total freedom here. Threads are deleted daily. Many are banned, usually spammers.

If there were prohibitionists coming here and posting anti-drug propaganda on threads about drugs, is deleting their comments or banning them 'oppression'. Certainly not. Your use of the term is too fast and loose, and totally irrelevant. Excluding people that don't want to join in your covenant is the most libertarian thing I can think of.

People are censored here at all times, no matter what you say. This thread is about discussing what sorts of posts would be censored, and what our community standards are going to be. I think scamming should be censored - it already is, but not vigorously enough. I would also extend that to begging.

This is incredible, I'm not sure if you are incredibly smart or incredibly dumb. Your argument is horrendous, contradicts itself I don't know how many times and my favorite part is where you identified yourself as a libertarian, mindboggling. It was that bad I started to wonder how someone so stupid could possibly find this place (*shakes fist at fox news*) and then it hit me. Perhaps you are writing such shit in the hope you can sway my belief in free speech, and I must say, you almost did well done.


Why don't you run along kid and argue with a fellow 16 year old about who is better republican or democrat. This place is for grownups.
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Razorspyne on January 24, 2013, 02:20 pm
I am a libertarian. That means I am not confused about the difference between public and private, as you seem to be.

Make no mistake, this is a private forum, open to all, and no free speech issues are at stake here at all.

There is no total freedom here. Threads are deleted daily. Many are banned, usually spammers.

If there were prohibitionists coming here and posting anti-drug propaganda on threads about drugs, is deleting their comments or banning them 'oppression'. Certainly not. Your use of the term is too fast and loose, and totally irrelevant. Excluding people that don't want to join in your covenant is the most libertarian thing I can think of.

People are censored here at all times, no matter what you say. This thread is about discussing what sorts of posts would be censored, and what our community standards are going to be. I think scamming should be censored - it already is, but not vigorously enough. I would also extend that to begging.

This is incredible, I'm not sure if you are incredibly smart or incredibly dumb. Your argument is horrendous, contradicts itself I don't know how many times and my favorite part is where you identified yourself as a libertarian, mindboggling. It was that bad I started to wonder how someone so stupid could possibly find this place (*shakes fist at fox news*) and then it hit me. Perhaps you are writing such shit in the hope you can sway my belief in free speech, and I must say, you almost did well done.


Why don't you run along kid and argue with a fellow 16 year old about who is better republican or democrat. This place is for grownups.

Funny this guy claims he's a 1st generation Silk Roader but hasn't even heard of grahamgreene...... ::) imagine being his mum! ??? How embarrassing would that be..... :o
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: Razorspyne on January 24, 2013, 04:02 pm
Initially going to drive by but these posts are phucking hilarious so Raz can’t F1 himself. I’ll try not to do it again though. There’s been a lot of dishonesty here in the last 24 hours…. I’ll try to not sink ↓ to that level.

In typical fashion…… from 1 to 30 clockwise……

You know that for this forum to work properly a line has to be drawn where saying somethings are going too far, I'd like some opinions on where that line might lie.

X)
nomad

Have to say it’s easy to observe where that line might be just on instinct. Just b/c this is Silk Road doesn’t have to mean we turn a blind eye to posts of pure hatred. We don’t need a goddamn dictionary to know what is acceptable and unacceptable, we just know. Like the fact that [edit.] obviously got pissed over a post I made without talking to me…. an immediate neg and deleted post (if from them) was my only FB. And the post I made before THAT, where that dickhead Motorolla or Erikson or whatever the phuc his name is was deliberately provoking everybody and I stood ↑ for the mods…. yeah…. immediately locked….. do I look like guru (what a way to thank him for his service) to you?! IMAHO that’s just wrong by anyone’s language. How the phuc this trolling dick is allowed to slam everybody on Silk Road and ethnic groups off it and not be booted, but ᴐ post deleted, me mysteriously negged and whole thread locked as soon as I post…. not sure how it helps Silk Road for newbies to see this needless fighting going on here. (I don’t even know if I was made invisible for that post, or where the phuc I am supposed to stand on this even. The FB ç² here as of late is fantastic. [Edit. actually 1 mod has since this written, TY for that.)

There's nothing wrong with censoring ass hats. Good moderation is required to maintain a healthy community…… a good line to draw is, "is this person annoying the piss out of everyone?"

BTW, as I said in the other thread, freedom of speech is a right granted by a government not to interfere with your expression. It doesn't mean ass hats can use someone else's property to spout off.

This is ç where I stand on the issue. Also, grahamgreene has valid points but it’s possible you may have been busy reading other posts on SR forums and did not see the same stuff I did, which would explain a whole different a. to the thread in q. than one given after viewing this material.

The obvious speaks for itself, personal information and packaging details being revealed.. But I would argue for more censorship, in a sense.

I saw a frightful week in December where this was happening and cautioned others on numerous occasions to think 2 sec.s before posting something that detailed, even if ❤ in ✓ place. Some threads were locked containing this info, and some posts were removed entirely. But what happened when guru removed info like this? That was a great bit of PR for SR (or whoever made the decision) for someone doing their job. I am not okay with that. If someone worked for me I would never do that.

I believe if a member produces nothing but trash posts for every post then that member should lose the privilege of posting.For all account that equals a spam account. It spams trash and at the desecration of the Forum Staff members can be removed.

I mean what good is a post with say,  just a ~ symbol? That's not a form of speech it's a waste of space.It's not censorship it's cleaning house.

And very similar…..

I would say the goal should be primarily to censor obvious trolls along with spam/scam posts.

As far as what constitutes trolling, I'd paraphrase the Potter-Stewart definition of pornography: you know it when you see it.

I would like to extrapolate this to hate-filled posts, instead of spam, as it is hard to draw thew line on what constitutes borderline spam. Some people are picking fights with everyone on SR lately and they need to be booted, warned, or something, b/c they are turning this place into a joke. Or should I say, that mods are (some of them, not all), for looking the other way? Some posts are so ✗ that an Ignore function just doesn’t cut it. They’re very rare but when they come ↑ you cannot look the other way. Everyone fights with each other at some stage on SR, even has a bad week….. look at joywind….. that must have been some phucking bad meth he bought, REALLY bad meth, but I’m not talking ç the forgivable stuff.

I don’t want to quote every bloody post here…. editing as much as poss……

Think of it as a school, where most of the students are trying to learn, and there is that *one guy* who insists on cutting up and bullying others.   It simply cannot be allowed. 

This is not a platform to debate if you should post about other ethnic groups, or bash other members.   

Right on sister. Its these assholes who troll the forums bullying others and ethnic groups that I’m talking about, not the guy who has had a ✗ week (or the unfortunate phuc who has the stupidity to stand ↑ for a mod, and then get pissed, write ç it, and receive further kicks in the teeth.)

Won’t quote nuyt b/c though I vehemently agree with, is already quoted in another form.

The 1st Amendment allows us to express ourselves without interference by or from the federal government.  The 1st Amendment does not apply to private property so the line is where you and DPR say the line is, eh?

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or adult material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum.

I am [edit.] with [edit.] legislation but it is still illegal to post certain inflammatory remarks contravening [edit.] laws put in place to protect ethnic groups being vilified in this manner. The second line you quoted is extremely pertinent to intentional trolling.

I have never really been offended by anything here, I have some of our crazier cousins on 'ignore' and there are some threads I don't even bother to open.  Having said that, I will admit to feeling a bit stung (kind of like an involuntary shudder) when ppl start throwing around the N word and the J word - when they are doing it just to be hurtful and just to inflame.  That, according to the Registration Agreement we all signed-off on, is a violation of forum rules

SR forums has a lot of threads, perhaps the ones you have seen differ greatly from the ones I have seen. Putting them on Ignore is no solution. It will work for some cases.

Okay I will try my best to have a proper discussion without berating the jews, here goes..

….. see, that’s where you’ve already lost me. You’ve worn out your welcome being a dickhead yesterday and denigrating everybody ç² you, and I, and I’m sure 99% of SR members, couldn’t care less about your opinions. (Rest of his post crap btw, he just looked ↓ his nose @ a mod so not missing anything intelligent if you skip it guys.) Troll somewhere else b/c you are taking ↑ space on the board. (You’re 50 times worse than joywind btw, and that’s embarrassing. joywind just had a really, really, really, really ✗ batch of meth.)

Moderators are in a no-win situation when it comes to these matters -- if we lock threads that are racist/offensive/etc. then people get angry ... but if we don't lock those threads, people get angry.  It's a daily struggle to determine what, if anything, should be deleted or locked.  The only threads I've deleted are the threads of the virwex / bitcointalks spammers.  It's a difficult line to walk, but I know that I - and the other moderators - do the best we can to promote and allow freedom of speech while also keeping in mind that there are instances in which leaving a thread open becomes detrimental to the community.  It's a balancing act.  We don't always succeed in keeping everyone happy, but we're all trying to do the right thing in these situations.
[/quote

I’ll tell you what I will get angry ç scout and that’s when you don’t when there’s something absolutely ✗and it isn’t dealt with. This sounds like a “can’t please em all” argument which I don’t $ for a sec. btw. (It IS possible to please em all.) If something stinks to ↑↑² heaven there’s a response that must be given. If something stinks just a little, phuc, even a PM isn’t needed, you just make a post and try and sort it out. It’s not rocket science. As for hitting a button (God I’m not saying this person definitely did this or that person defintely did that but I’m not an flaming idiot) instead of staying something, that is no way to deal with a reputable SR member (or any member). Could you imagine being booted from modding without notice b/c you actually DID your job on something; I’m of the opinion that is not ✓ business sense and you would be ropable.

Fine, hate speech section, where you can rant and rave about the jews, blacks and whatever the fuck else you wierd people want them to be able to do. Just don't bring that shit onto the main forums and piss people off, there is a time and place for that(if ever), not in an argument over whether what you said should be where it was originally(as was roky's qualm).

Shouldn’t be any section like that. Just isn’t smart. If I found a section like that I could copy-paste the whole thing and write a cantankerous little article about we should speed ↑ legislation on adding pressure on the closure of Silk Road. Think outside the ❏ a little..... we don't need some journo or trouble-maker adding ≥ problems, shit there's enough as it is.

If Raz phucs ↑, or anyone else for that matter, penises are usually ✓ in a situation like this, and I just thought that everyone here had one. I guess I was ✗. Aren't people born with mouths any ≥? Don't people deserve to be told ç. something? (Can I list the above example or will it seem I’m re-hashing?)

Quite frankly I don’t think this idea of no FB on SR is helping anybody. If you can’t mod without having the ability to speak frankly and honestly ç something then your acc./ was given prematurely (and no, I’m not having a go at anyone here! Just frustrated with the no penis [should I edit this word? ??? ] policy, unlike a couple of people ç here I do have a spyne and will say something if it needs to be said, it needs to be said, so there you go…) I think you can appreciate my position when I go out of my way to F1 people and it’s thrown back in ᴐ face while the real trollers get away with anything. It’s just backwards and not phucking right @ all. I’ve never trolled in my life on SR, but I HAVE tried to make it better so let’s wake the phuc ↑ a little bit here.

Without a doubt I’ll get negged for standing ↑ and saying something that abso-phucking-lutely needs to be acknowledged, but that’s okay b/c somebody who lacks the ability to hide behind a computer screen and endlessly hit a button in preference to opening their mouth is quite frankly their own worst enemy. (Good thing nobody actually takes that score seriously anymore anyway.)


Hope this is clear b/c time is against me a little.

If anyone has anything to say, say it. Little backstabbing techniques don’t impress me at all and don’t solve anything. How someone could take exception to me is beyond me. I’m one of the more friendly bunnies on Silk Road you’ll find. Fucking disgraceful.

As for the OP q., see ^. People should have the right to say what they want, but if it is so offensive that SR's name is being dragged into the mud then brains are a good way of solving that. Anyway. If I wanted to be vitriolic to mods I would have done so..... this post is very Bugs Bunny tame. This post is to point out that it's not okay to slam people and then say "it's SR so I can do what I want". And for those that do actually say something in a mod's defense, they are entitled to have that say without being censored. If somebody says fuck you and you let it slide, why would you spill your nut juice over someone saying something NICE? Yeah whatever.

Piece out. Drive safely. Eat plenty.

[Edit. If someone says this is hi-jacking or not related to thread they've misunderstood it. Open to FB just don't be a dick.]
Title: Re: At what point does the freedom of speech vs. Censorshuip actual end?
Post by: nomad bloodbath on January 24, 2013, 04:14 pm
I'd like to thank Roky Erickson one last time for reminding me that I prefer to be a free thinker at whatever it costs and before I go outside to play in the street and whatever randomly pops in my head to do also commend him on his use of censorship with the constant rhetoric using free speech to attempt to enforce and brain wash those in the community that do not conform to his opinion and example this forums members should be following with his overpowering post stylings and name calling to define or dismiss the perfect example of what every member should use as it's daily guideline for use of this cultural stepping stone to this community's future survival.


Everyone have fun and a good day I'm done with the forums until later this week.
Everyone remember to be safeful and stay safe.

X)
nomad