Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: sdesu on November 08, 2012, 04:41 am
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As many of you know, residents of Washington and Colorado have voted to regulate marijuana like alcohol for adults 21+. With these new laws, there is no doubt marijuana prices will drop as a result, the question is, how will this affect marijuana vendors here on Silk Road? I just read an interesting article on the HuffingtonPost regarding this (not about SR). What do you think?
Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/legalizing-marijuana-washington-colorado_n_2088375.html
Full text article:
Legalizing Marijuana In Washington And Colorado Could Decrease Cost For Users
In a huge victory for the pro-pot movement, Washington and Colorado became the first states in the U.S. to legalize marijuana for recreational use on Tuesday. The unprecedented win could bring even more welcome news for marijuana users, as some say that legal pot could also mean cheaper pot for consumers.
That’s right -- many speculate that the price of marijuana will go down significantly as the industry enters a new legal environment. A report by Dale Gieringer, director of California NORML, a non-profit lobbying group working to legalize marijuana, shows that legal marijuana in an open market could cost as little as $3 an ounce -- 100 times less than its current price of about $300 (H/t: Slate).
A decrease in prices would be partly due to the fact that it would cost substantially less to grow marijuana in a legal environment. Without fear of getting punished criminally, pot producers could eliminate the costs of growing marijuana in secret. Marijuana could cost as little as 20 cents per pound to produce, according to Slate.
But the real cost of marijuana will of course be impacted by how the states decide to tax pot on the open market. In Washington, marijuana will be taxed at the steep rate of 25 percent three times over, with the tax being charged when the grower sells it to the processor, when the processor sells it to the retailer and when the retailer sells it to the user, CNN Money reports. Estimates indicate that the state stands to earn $500 million in tax revenue, according to WPTV.
In Colorado, taxes won't be as harsh as in Washington. Amendment 64 limits taxes to 15 percent of the wholesale price of marijuana through 2017. The Colorado Center on Law and Policy estimates that marijuana sales would generate as much as $60 million a year in tax revenue for the state, the Denver Post reports.
It's hard to predict how demand could change now that marijuana is legal, which makes it tough to estimate exactly how much prices with change, the Associated Press reports.
"It's difficult to size up a market even if it's legal, certainly if it's illegal," Jeffrey Miron, a Harvard University economist who has studied the national tax implications of the legalization of several drugs told the AP.
During the Prohibition Era (1920 - 1933) when alcohol was illegal, the price of the banned substance increased substantially, according to the Economic History Association. Despite the uptick on price, Americans were hardly deterred from drinking as U.S. consumption of alcohol hardly declined went down. Today, many regard the "noble experiment" as a complete failure. Prohibition not only removed a significant source of tax revenue, but it increase government spending and led many drinkers to switch to more dangerous substances like cocaine, the Cato Institute Policy Analysis reports.
Although the passing of Amendment 64 will make it legal immediately for Colorado adults to possess, grow, consume and give away marijuana, it could take almost a year before pot is sold in stores, the Colorado Independent reports. Seeing marijuana on store shelves could take as long as a year in Washington as well.
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They will go down, no?
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I doubt it, as there are already pretty good prices in medical states that I believe are being resold here on SR.
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... shows that legal marijuana in an open market could cost as little as $3 an ounce -- 100 times less than its current price of about $300 (H/t: Slate).
That is incredible. Unlikely to happen in reality, but incredible that it is possible! I could literally flood the market here where I am with good quality unsprayed weed for next to nothing and force the gangs to drop their prices and improve their quality, benefiting all Irish cannabis users. That, or I could pocket $477 profit on every ounce I sell and make $1.8 million per year. Oh the possibilities! :P
Seriously great news though; I look forward to the first batch of WA and CO sellers and the price : quality ratio they can bring to buyers here. :)
- grahamgreene
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The only thing I see disappearing on the road once the legalization hits (Jan 1, 2013) is that all the small gram sales vendors disappear. Who the fuck pays 25 a gram anyway? If you are willing to pay 25 a gram please shoot me a message as I have a plethora of product to offer haha.
The only real life thing that will affect prices in the near future is if the Feds have any say in it. If the Feds have a say expect your prices to stay the same on SR, if they have a shot in the dark at enforcing their bullshit law expect prices to drop. I have hopes that the supply will completely overwhelm the demand in the near future. Have your coins ready to spend at the appropriate place is the only thing I can recommend :)
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God i love my state, 1000$ prices for a permit to grow. the only problem is the goverment taxes it. and it is also 40% tax at the cannabis stores that are going to open up. The only problem is that the feds are going to be all over this because marijuana is still illegal to the federal government
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They'll stay the same. Granted supply will be greater but with the demand to more than match that supply there's no reason for prices to drop. Was and is the same thing with medical - patients are paying prices for medical mj that are a direct result of the street market's dictation. Legalization won't change a thing for prices. It just means more supply and more demand.
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If there is a greater supply than there is demand, the price will go down. I doubt that will happen, however, as the prices in the rest of the country will remain stagnant, which will create demand for the weed in medical, or recreational states. Also, considering that the DEA is still planning on enforcing federal law on medicinal and recreational marijuana states, there is still quite a bit of risk for growers/sellers in these areas.
I do not foresee any substantial drop in prices due to decrim measures in these states. It would be nice, though.
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Probably won't change that drastically...the numbers on there are a bit screwy anyway.....20 cents a pound? Shit trimmers alone get $200 for trimming a pound and any grower will tell you that growing and harvesting *good* bud is labor intensive.
-mm
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The article that you posted is all speculation, and since Marijuana historically, and technically still, is an illegal substance, measuring supply and demand has always been daunting. $3 an ounce is an outlandish claim though, for the amount of time and resources that goes into growing and harvest weed, nobody will ever sell at $3 an ounce, it just wouldn't be worth it.
For starters, everyone is all excited about CO & WA legalizing weed but nobody is acknowledging that Federally, weed is still illegal, and Federal law always trumps state law. In California, medical marijuana has been legal since 1996 and it goes a little like this: if you are operating within the scope of California law (you have your medical marijuana card & you are in possession of the legal limit or less), local authorities will leave you alone. HOWEVER, at any time, for no reason at all, the DEA, a federal government entity, can step in and charge you for violating federal law.
Up north in the Emerald Triangle, where it is legal to grow 99 plants under county ordinance, I heard many stories about medical marijuana growers who were operating within the scope of the law and would get federally raided by the DEA. In fact, it's pretty much is a cost of doing business in the medical marijuana industry. Retail stores take expected theft into consideration when financially planning; they know they are going to have merchandise stolen so they allocate inventory and make adjustments to expected profit accordingly...equally so, anyone operating in the open in the medical marijuana industry in CA needs to put money aside for a lawyer because if the DEA wants to come take you down, they will, and you need to be ready to fight it.
So even though everyone is all excited about this alleged legalization in CO & WA, the truth is, we have NO IDEA what is going to happen in the next 12 months. What you can count on is this: people aren't going to be setting up farms and growing out in the open, at least, not if they are smart. The DEA has a track record of not interfering with state laws one year, and then the next year raiding everybody.
Just pulled up another article, thought this quote was relevant:
President Obama's former senior drug policy advisor said that if the marijuana initiatives pass, a war will be incited between the federal government and the states that pass them. "Once these states actually try to implement these laws, we will see an effort by the feds to shut it down," Sabet said.
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I doubt it will affect the price. Ive been to dispensaries where its legal in CA and AZ. The price is no bargain compared to street prices. Actually a little more expensive from what I noticed. Roughly $40-50 an 1/8th and you dont get any deals for buying bulk. Well, you arent allowed to buy bulk. By the way, MA legalized too for all of us weed lovers. Its spreading fast. ;D Also, is it me or does it seem as though bud prices on SR have dropped somewhat recently anyways? Maybe because its harvest time. Im lovin it. Found some for $12 a gram!
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The only thing I see disappearing on the road once the legalization hits (Jan 1, 2013) is that all the small gram sales vendors disappear. Who the fuck pays 25 a gram anyway? If you are willing to pay 25 a gram please shoot me a message as I have a plethora of product to offer haha.
The only real life thing that will affect prices in the near future is if the Feds have any say in it. If the Feds have a say expect your prices to stay the same on SR, if they have a shot in the dark at enforcing their bullshit law expect prices to drop. I have hopes that the supply will completely overwhelm the demand in the near future. Have your coins ready to spend at the appropriate place is the only thing I can recommend :)
+1 for making me lol :)
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The only thing I see disappearing on the road once the legalization hits (Jan 1, 2013) is that all the small gram sales vendors disappear. Who the fuck pays 25 a gram anyway? If you are willing to pay 25 a gram please shoot me a message as I have a plethora of product to offer haha.
The only real life thing that will affect prices in the near future is if the Feds have any say in it. If the Feds have a say expect your prices to stay the same on SR, if they have a shot in the dark at enforcing their bullshit law expect prices to drop. I have hopes that the supply will completely overwhelm the demand in the near future. Have your coins ready to spend at the appropriate place is the only thing I can recommend :)
Street dealer prices in Ireland are anywhere between $382 - $637 USD an ounce depending on the quality of the product. The buyer on the street is paying $64 for a 2.2g - 3.5g bag (so up to $29 per gram!), again, depending on the quality of the product and the unscrupulousness of their dealer.
I'm making a killing selling on higher quality product at a much lower price, buffering my margins with increased sales at a lower cost to my buyers, and forcing competitors to reduce their prices which benefits all buyers in the area where my dealers are operating, whether they buy from my dealers or not. My motive isn't entirely charitable, obviously, but seeing people not having to wince when they buy a bag of weed is a very nice side effect and allows me to justify my profit-making to myself.
Buying bulk amounts of sprayed product is still costing most bulk buyers around €7000 per kilo here ($8924), with clean product costing in the region of €8500 - €10,000. The market here is out of control as a result of gang control of the markets.
If I could continuously flood the market with good quality green at much lower price I could force a change in prices which would benefit all cannabis users here. Fancy helping the revolution by moving to CO or WA and growing some product ultimately destined for Irish shores? :P
- grahamgreene
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$3 an ounce?
If that was a reality I would be move to America for 2 months and ship 12kgs a day back to UK!
I can't see it happening though!
Dank
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The only thing I see disappearing on the road once the legalization hits (Jan 1, 2013) is that all the small gram sales vendors disappear. Who the fuck pays 25 a gram anyway? If you are willing to pay 25 a gram please shoot me a message as I have a plethora of product to offer haha.
The only real life thing that will affect prices in the near future is if the Feds have any say in it. If the Feds have a say expect your prices to stay the same on SR, if they have a shot in the dark at enforcing their bullshit law expect prices to drop. I have hopes that the supply will completely overwhelm the demand in the near future. Have your coins ready to spend at the appropriate place is the only thing I can recommend :)
Street dealer prices in Ireland are anywhere between $382 - $637 USD an ounce depending on the quality of the product. The buyer on the street is paying $64 for a 2.2g - 3.5g bag (so up to $29 per gram!), again, depending on the quality of the product and the unscrupulousness of their dealer.
I'm making a killing selling on higher quality product at a much lower price, buffering my margins with increased sales at a lower cost to my buyers, and forcing competitors to reduce their prices which benefits all buyers in the area where my dealers are operating, whether they buy from my dealers or not. My motive isn't entirely charitable, obviously, but seeing people not having to wince when they buy a bag of weed is a very nice side effect and allows me to justify my profit-making to myself.
Buying bulk amounts of sprayed product is still costing most bulk buyers around €7000 per kilo here ($8924), with clean product costing in the region of €8500 - €10,000. The market here is out of control as a result of gang control of the markets.
If I could continuously flood the market with good quality green at much lower price I could force a change in prices which would benefit all cannabis users here. Fancy helping the revolution by moving to CO or WA and growing some product ultimately destined for Irish shores? :P
- grahamgreene
grahamgreene, PM me. Im a vendor. I could do bulk for a lot less than what you said. Its clean medical grade (no fucking spray) Ive never even encountered that. I could send a sample. Various strains. I guess I should have offered international before.
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i want to see more america - international vendors.
would love to try that medical bud, ooh yah
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not in the least
Bikerbum
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[SNIP]
grahamgreene, PM me. Im a vendor. I could do bulk for a lot less than what you said. Its clean medical grade (no fucking spray) Ive never even encountered that. I could send a sample. Various strains. I guess I should have offered international before.
I appreciate the offer, MissSnowGo, but I have strict vendor statistics that I stick to when choosing a vendor with whom to do business. A minimum of 175 transactions, a member for 3+ months, and feedback above 97%. From your customers' feedback you seem to be going the right way about becoming a very successful vendor here, so I'll keep an eye on you for future purchases. :)
I don't accept samples as everybody deserves to be paid fairly for their work, but again, I appreciate the offer. When you're a little more established I'll buy an ounce or two to check out your product. :)
I currently have a supplier that I'm incredibly happy with here - mrouid - and will be buying from him again once his account is back up and running, but best of luck with your new venture, and I hope you enjoy the time you spend in this community. :)
- grahamgreene
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since ive been in the biz since the start of mm..prices have been going down down down..."Everyone's a grower" (tho most aren't pro)And caretakers with 95 plants and licensed outdoor grows ARE growing out in the open! In fact we had 300 plants next door. It isn't at all profitable for the small time indoor grower anymore, u have to just enjoy growing. Top quality 1/4 lbs are 600 right now, making me so broke, i can't even save the $ to open a vendor acct...lolz
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I think a more important question is 'How will legalization in CO & WA affect shipping from those states?'.
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I think a more important question is 'How will legalization in CO & WA affect shipping from those states?'.
Those states will be viewed as "drug source" states, that is for sure.
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its not even legal in amsterdamn. Of all places, the United fucking States is the first to actually "Legalize" a previously illict drug. Who'd have thunk it. Is this the shove the bogged car needs to get out of the sand that is the War on Drugs?
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Damn I am very interested in buying wholesale from US to Europe when prices go down. And prices will go down, I'm sure. You guys just have to remember what you are paying for your pack of cigarettes - and those are heavily taxed. Without taxes, a pack of cigarettes would be dirt cheap, next to nothing in fact. Compare this to weed, which is also just a plant, like wheat, barley, or any other field crop. Legal weed will grow on fields, not indoors with hydroponic setups and artificial light. This all depends on if the feds will bust legal field grows, though, since they are by nature quite impossible to hide. If marijuana is allowed to be grown outdoors in Colorado and Washington, the entire process from seed to bud will be automatic, you don't have to rent a trimmer because the trimmer will be a machine. And you will harvest with a tractor just like you do tobacco, and therefore the prices are going to resemble that, hence the $3 a pound, untaxed. Now, I doubt it's going to be allowed to be that cheap, I can see how that would get out of hand quickly, when a single dose of cannabis would cost less than a penny. Either way, I'm betting my money on that weed is going to be cheaper than it is anywhere else in the entire world, and I hope to be able to be a part of that business here on SR, and resale it in my country in Europe.
If someone here on SR decides to start up an international business from Colorado or Washington, I hope you will decide to make hashish, because it is easier to transport by mail. I would feel more comfortable ordering large amounts of hashish rather than weed, and I'm sure quite a lot of people are going to agree on that. I sincerely believe Colorado and Washington are going to be exporting the best hashish the world has to offer for price/value! Good news!
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Long time grower here, new to SR. I think you will see the average outdoor green become less expensive, but quality indoor medical will stay high. I don't think people truly understand what it takes to grow indoors and keep a true medicinal grade product. $$$
I look at it like steak. Anyone can cook a steak, but to get a high quality, aged to perfection, prime piece of meat cooked perfectly will cost you.
I also believe in Co. and Wa. demand is going to go through the roof, we'll see if supply can keep up.
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Prices won't go down. Their whole pitch for getting it legalized was that it should be treated the same as Alcohol. You have any idea how much alcohol is taxed? Now that it's legal they'll be taxing the crap out of it: tax the grower, tax the distributor, tax the retailer, tax the consumer. So while it may be a bit more affordable, it won't go anywhere near $3 per ounce. If you believe that you've been smoking too much of your own stuff you've been growing.
But this is not a bad thing. If CO make a killing from this, then other states will follow putting more pressure on the Fed. Money talks a lot more than "ideals".
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Prices won't go down. Their whole pitch for getting it legalized was that it should be treated the same as Alcohol. You have any idea how much alcohol is taxed? Now that it's legal they'll be taxing the crap out of it: tax the grower, tax the distributor, tax the retailer, tax the consumer. So while it may be a bit more affordable, it won't go anywhere near $3 per ounce. If you believe that you've been smoking too much of your own stuff you've been growing.
But this is not a bad thing. If CO make a killing from this, then other states will follow putting more pressure on the Fed. Money talks a lot more than "ideals".
You missed a few things in your theory. Before, weed growing was illegal and exclusively the business of criminals. Now, weed growing will be legal and the business of businessmen. Yeah, prices won't hit $3 per ounce... but it will drop more than you expect, even with the taxes.
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You missed a few things in your theory. Before, weed growing was illegal and exclusively the business of criminals. Now, weed growing will be legal and the business of businessmen. Yeah, prices won't hit $3 per ounce... but it will drop more than you expect, even with the taxes.
What another poster above me pointed out is that while prices of Outdoor weed will most likely drop (assuming the feds don't bust this whole thing up, which is the most likely outcome in reality).....there is a significant difference between commercial outdoor grown weed and well-grown indoor weed. Just like wine has a price range of $3 per bottle to $300 per bottle, so too will weed. The cost associated with growing indoors is much higher, even on a commercial scale, but the quality is also significantly better as well, and people will always pay a premium for quality.
Everyone keeps ignoring that there is no way our federal government will allow 2 rogue states to disobey federal law and will stand idly by. There is a 99% probability that this legalization attempt will be squashed, and if it isn't squashed, nobody in their right mind is going to set up a 20 acre marijuana farm and openly grow, because they will be raided. In both cases, the price of weed isn't greatly changed.
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You missed a few things in your theory. Before, weed growing was illegal and exclusively the business of criminals. Now, weed growing will be legal and the business of businessmen. Yeah, prices won't hit $3 per ounce... but it will drop more than you expect, even with the taxes.
What another poster above me pointed out is that while prices of Outdoor weed will most likely drop (assuming the feds don't bust this whole thing up, which is the most likely outcome in reality).....there is a significant difference between commercial outdoor grown weed and well-grown indoor weed. Just like wine has a price range of $3 per bottle to $300 per bottle, so too will weed. The cost associated with growing indoors is much higher, even on a commercial scale, but the quality is also significantly better as well, and people will always pay a premium for quality.
Everyone keeps ignoring that there is no way our federal government will allow 2 rogue states to disobey federal law and will stand idly by. There is a 99% probability that this legalization attempt will be squashed, and if it isn't squashed, nobody in their right mind is going to set up a 20 acre marijuana farm and openly grow, because they will be raided. In both cases, the price of weed isn't greatly changed.
Two states had their populations rise up and say "Hey, you know what? We disagree with what you've told us. Let's do this different."
As much as the government may want to shut that down, the people are speaking. Cannabis wasn't banned by popular vote but it was legalized by it. We've got more say in it than the government does.
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You know a ton of illegal marijuana being shipped around is coming from Colorado, but dominantly most of it is coming from California.
California bases its prices on quality and because of that the quality has gone up and the price has stayed constant.
Best chance is you get the same price for the same CALI weed
and maybe Colorado weed goes down a bit(but it's already been basically legal there)
and you won't see any effect from Washington b/c you never buy Washington weed anyway.
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Unless the federal laws change and/or all lower 48 adapt similar then its going to cause more problems than people think. The feds will be waiting to pounce on the people who would be stupid enough to try and ship from those 2 states to another state where its illegal. That alone turns it into federal turf and you can bet til all of the old close minded government types die out this will be fought tooth and nail. With the right to now grow openly people gonna try and steal whatever they can. Its a start and I think eventually it will be commonplace but it is still a ways off. It has been illegal far to long and already you got people foaming at the mouth to cash in which will create more problems. It is good to finally see some forward steps though.
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As much as the government may want to shut that down, the people are speaking. Cannabis wasn't banned by popular vote but it was legalized by it. We've got more say in it than the government does.
There are two government bodies: state and federal. The two propositions that passed were passed on the state level. Cultivation, Possession, Distribution, and Sale of Marijuana is still illegal by federal law. I highlighted the difference between state and federal enforcement in my first post on page 1; Medical Marijuana has been legal for over a decade in California and for the most-part, local authorities (PD, CHP, Sheriff, etc) do not interfere with Medical Marijuana. That is to say, if you get pulled over, searched, or raided and your paperwork is legit, no charges will be pressed. HOWEVER, the DEA, a federal law enforcement agency, has continually harassed, raided, shut down, and imprisoned people who were doing everything legally according to state law.
What I am trying to explain is this:
The reason why the price of weed will not go down is because although local authorities in CO & WA will not interfere with the Marijuana trade within those two states, as per new state law, the DEA has a lengthy track record of ignoring state laws and enforcing federal laws
There will be no large scale pot farms in those states, and if there are, the DEA will raid them. Maybe they won't raid them right away, maybe it will be a year or so, but I'm telling you from witnessing firsthand, the DEA doesn't give a damn about state laws.
**Footnote: Medical Marijuana advocates have tried to fight the DEA, even taken their cases to the Supreme Court, and they have lost. The same will happen in CO & WA
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As much as the government may want to shut that down, the people are speaking. Cannabis wasn't banned by popular vote but it was legalized by it. We've got more say in it than the government does.
There are two government bodies: state and federal. The two propositions that passed were passed on the state level. Cultivation, Possession, Distribution, and Sale of Marijuana is still illegal by federal law. I highlighted the difference between state and federal enforcement in my first post on page 1; Medical Marijuana has been legal for over a decade in California and for the most-part, local authorities (PD, CHP, Sheriff, etc) do not interfere with Medical Marijuana. That is to say, if you get pulled over, searched, or raided and your paperwork is legit, no charges will be pressed. HOWEVER, the DEA, a federal law enforcement agency, has continually harassed, raided, shut down, and imprisoned people who were doing everything legally according to state law.
What I am trying to explain is this:
The reason why the price of weed will not go down is because although local authorities in CO & WA will not interfere with the Marijuana trade within those two states, as per new state law, the DEA has a lengthy track record of ignoring state laws and enforcing federal laws
There will be no large scale pot farms in those states, and if there are, the DEA will raid them. Maybe they won't raid them right away, maybe it will be a year or so, but I'm telling you from witnessing firsthand, the DEA doesn't give a damn about state laws.
**Footnote: Medical Marijuana advocates have tried to fight the DEA, even taken their cases to the Supreme Court, and they have lost. The same will happen in CO & WA
I feel that we will see a spate of growers who set up 99-megaplant farms. I think that this will be the turning point that pushes people into cultivating sustainable plants, instead of growing and harvesting every seed/clone. My information might be off, but I've heard it isn't a federal problem until the growing hits 100 or more plants. So to make a bigger profit, just grow a bigger plant. And I understand that the DEA are a pack of cunts, don't worry. ;)
But mostly, I think that people will complain harder and harder. Because the war on drugs isn't in their hands, anymore. This stuff is legalized at the state level. It will be sold at the state level. And it will be illegal at the federal level. They'll have to arrest government officials just as much as the regular Joe on the street. It's no longer just the war on drugs... It's the civil-war on drugs. (Not to be confused with WKUK's Civil War On Drugs)
The government now has to fight itself... and the people are not on its side. So, a whole battery of reasons why I think this will affect prices.
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I agree that the citizens of this country are more and more in support of legalizing Weed. But this is a battle that has been going on for 30+ years. There were people in the 1960's who believed that Weed would be legal by the year 2000... but here we are in 2012 and this issue didn't really make it to the forefront of discussion and debate up until the last 5 years. There is no predicting what will happen in the next 12 months as far as growing, selling, and enforcement goes. It will be very interesting to watch.
Eventually, there will have to be a change in federal law. I think someday Weed will be legal, regulated, grown industrially, and sold in grocery stores. But given the rate of change over the last 30 years I would imagine that won't happen for another 5-15 years, maybe even longer.
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Sorry to butt in on this interesting conversation...
I live in the UK, and this notion of two contradictory legislations seems very alien to me. Do people really get harassed by feds when they aren't breaking state law? Surely they can never be found guilty in a court of law?
And more importantly, how the hell do these propositions ever get passed in the first place? I kind of understand the medical marijuana laws, as they are very loosely written, but these new laws seem to be completely contradictory to US law?
The whole idea of doing something that has been ruled to be legal, and still fearing for your freedom/business/livelihood is quite scary...
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obama is in the second term with no repercussions if he plays ball federally with the states, he might go down as one of the greatest presidents of all time.
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I think there is way to much worry about people buying weed online getting in any trouble, in co and wa know they have no reason at all to worry about. NO AUSA is going to go after a personal use mj case!!!
So there will be a lot more people that till the stores open up in 2014 may find sr to be a very good, easy, safe, and LEGAL!!!
Now sellers are much safer in both states too, because almost all federal arrests use local law enforcement there will be very little resurces to go after sellers in those states, and then the AUSA would still face getting a jury to convict so would offer probation prob at most for under 5 lbs.
This also goes for growers in both states.
I think there will be a bunch more buyers and sellers, prices will drop but prob only to the point that primo mj will sell for shit weed prices.
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I think there is way to much worry about people buying weed online getting in any trouble, in co and wa know they have no reason at all to worry about. NO AUSA is going to go after a personal use mj case!!!
So there will be a lot more people that till the stores open up in 2014 may find sr to be a very good, easy, safe, and LEGAL!!!
Now sellers are much safer in both states too, because almost all federal arrests use local law enforcement there will be very little resurces to go after sellers in those states, and then the AUSA would still face getting a jury to convict so would offer probation prob at most for under 5 lbs.
This also goes for growers in both states.
I think there will be a bunch more buyers and sellers, prices will drop but prob only to the point that primo mj will sell for shit weed prices.
Shit weed sells for $70+ an ounce, on here. I'd love to see those prices on the premium stuff.
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Sorry to butt in on this interesting conversation...
I live in the UK, and this notion of two contradictory legislations seems very alien to me. Do people really get harassed by feds when they aren't breaking state law? Surely they can never be found guilty in a court of law?
And more importantly, how the hell do these propositions ever get passed in the first place? I kind of understand the medical marijuana laws, as they are very loosely written, but these new laws seem to be completely contradictory to US law?
The whole idea of doing something that has been ruled to be legal, and still fearing for your freedom/business/livelihood is quite scary...
Yes, mmj dispensaries (and individual growers for that manner) that are completely legal at the state level, can still be taken to a Federal court and put in Federal prison . Each individual state makes its own state laws, so if citizens want to get an initiative on a ballet to be voted into law it just takes resources. if you have enough money and people (mainly money) you can get your prop/bill/initiative into state law. look at washington state in its recent passing of rec use. a very well funded pro pot campaign blitzed the voting audience in the 6 weeks prior to elections. with relatively no opposition i502 passed 55/45.
but even though this is what the citizens voted on to be legal where they live, the feds can still come and invade (and even sue them over it indirectly) doing whatever the DEA deems necessary.
but if you are a small time grower not making any noise and keeping your head down, you should be fine. a strange situation 'mericas gotten itself into, but this could be an experiment for the world to see...so lets hope for the best.
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Sorry to butt in on this interesting conversation...
I live in the UK, and this notion of two contradictory legislations seems very alien to me. Do people really get harassed by feds when they aren't breaking state law? Surely they can never be found guilty in a court of law?
And more importantly, how the hell do these propositions ever get passed in the first place? I kind of understand the medical marijuana laws, as they are very loosely written, but these new laws seem to be completely contradictory to US law?
The whole idea of doing something that has been ruled to be legal, and still fearing for your freedom/business/livelihood is quite scary...
There are two forms of government in the USA, federal and state. Federal law covers the entire country, and federal law has the final word in any legal issues. States are allowed to pass their own laws and enforce them as well. The idea is; whatever the people in that state want, the people get. If you don't like the laws in one state, you can move to another. Every state has different laws on a variety of issues, ranging from: taxes, gun ownership, abortion, age for sexual consent, drugs, marriage, etc.
One thing remains constant though; federal law. States may have different income taxes and sales taxes, but you must always pay the federal government (the IRS) a certain amount of taxes based on your income, no matter what. How this happens is that voters are able to put propositions on the ballot every voting cycle if they are able to collect enough signatures supporting the proposition. So in 1996 California became the first state to pass a law allowing Marijuana possession, cultivation, and use for medicinal purposes with the passing of Proposition 215. Marijuana is a controlled substance according to Federal law, and it is still illegal to use, possess, cultivate, or sell.
When Prop215 passed, that mean state authorities would no longer prosecute anyone using medical marijuana within the scope of the law. There are rules on possession, cultivation, use (you can't share with people, you can't drive while high, etc). At first it wasn't a big deal and for about 5-10 years it was a pretty legitimate part of California's culture. What happened in the mid-2000s however was that some clever people figured out that they could put doctors on a payroll to write prescriptions for just about anybody who wanted one. Dispensaries were originally formed as a safe place to buy marijuana. All you needed was a prescription, and you could enter, choose from a selection, etc. Dispensaries were required to operate as non-profit businesses, since the goal was to provide medicine, not make money.
Well, around the same time anybody could get a prescription for marijuana, dispensaries started popping up all over the state. Non-profit is actually a tax filing status but that doesn't mean "you work for no money". Dispensary owners gave themselves healthy salaries (six-figures), and used a variety of techniques to make a very nice profit while still operating under the "non-profit" flag. Over the last 5-7 years we have experienced an explosion in the abuse of the medical marijuana system in California. Anybody can get a prescription, which means anybody can grow, have weed in their possession, be high, etc. If you can find the episodes online, "Weed Wars" by the Discovery Channel gives you a small peak at the medical marijuana industry.
As the abuse of the system grew, the federal government began interfering more and more. The DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency, a federal law enforcement agency) has raided hundreds of dispensaries and farmers up and down California. When Obama first came to office 4 years ago, the DEA issued a statement saying they would leave the medical marijuana industry in California alone...but that only last about a year. As it stands now, the medical marijuana industry is still thriving, and although it is technically legal, it's still a risky business to be in because if you get too big or become too well known, the DEA is liable to come raid you.
Federal law trumps all and until the DEA changes it's position on Marijuana, it doesn't matter what laws states pass, the DEA can go in and arrest anyone selling or using marijuana.
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me and my business partner are opening a hookah lounge/ marijuana lounge and distribution facility with our own off site grow area in Washington in the next couple of months. we will have a legal license to grow marijuana but it will be hidden off site from the shop at an inconspicuous location. Its going to be called "happy daze" look us up in the next couple of months!
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one state at a time...legalize it dont criticize it
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me and my business partner are opening a hookah lounge/ marijuana lounge and distribution facility with our own off site grow area in Washington in the next couple of months. we will have a legal license to grow marijuana but it will be hidden off site from the shop at an inconspicuous location. Its going to be called "happy daze" look us up in the next couple of months!
So you're going to be selling on SR? Have you got any idea of what kind of prices your weed will be at? Ordering from the United States should be safe to my country, because the US is still a rather large exporter of goods. I'm happy for you that you'll be opening up a legal marijuana business, and I hope you can grow a few kilos extra off charts for the very grateful SR community ;).
So , do you believe prices of the legal bud will drop in comparison to the black market stuff? I'm pretty convinced myself that it would, but that's still up for debate.
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in the first place weed should be accessible to everyone, war on drugs (specially on weed) it's a losing war.
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me and my business partner are opening a hookah lounge/ marijuana lounge and distribution facility with our own off site grow area in Washington in the next couple of months. we will have a legal license to grow marijuana but it will be hidden off site from the shop at an inconspicuous location. Its going to be called "happy daze" look us up in the next couple of months!
So you're going to be selling on SR? Have you got any idea of what kind of prices your weed will be at? Ordering from the United States should be safe to my country, because the US is still a rather large exporter of goods. I'm happy for you that you'll be opening up a legal marijuana business, and I hope you can grow a few kilos extra off charts for the very grateful SR community ;).
So , do you believe prices of the legal bud will drop in comparison to the black market stuff? I'm pretty convinced myself that it would, but that's still up for debate.
The prices of cannabis that i will be selling in my shop will be substantially higher than the prices that i would be able to sell it for out of my shop. The government will be taxing what i sell legally big time(25+%) That being said, i have been growing top shelf weed for 5+ years in small quantities due to how it has been illegal. At that time i would sell my weed at 220$ an ounce to friends small scale when i had crop outs of around 2lbs.
Now that its legal to the state i will be able to produce a much larger quantity of bud at less cost to me due to the fact that i wont have to be extremely stealthy and pay for stealth equipment. Im guessing that once i get my grow house up and running i will be able to offer a number of strains of top shelf cannabis for a lower price than i used to. Im thinking lower than 200$ an ounce. Im not sure exactly how much i will be taxed but i just got a business license and am setting everything up.
I think that selling on SR would become a huge possibility for me because i can be Annonymous instead of doing street deals outside my shop. But there is also the aspect of when and if i sell on SR i will be breaking the law by selling to states other than WA and CO. Ill have to think it over but i will keep you guys updated with the loop of how things are going here in Washington. Im extremely well connected in the marijuana community here and will know all of the details of how things work very soon as time progresses.
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one state at a time...legalize it dont criticize it
too true, if america topples then maybe will the rest of the world.
really interested how the change in law would effect importation.
im sure theres a few vendors from europe who would love a USA hash reseller
hehehe
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Yeah man I sure would love some of that 'Colorado Gold' hash ;) hahaha don't steal my marketing name!!!!!
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Its going to be called "happy daze" look us up in the next couple of months!
Dear DEA,
Hey look! You just got your first SR-related bust. And look! i have made 33,000$ because of this website in the year that i have been here and at the same time have spread the love of high quality mdma to thousands of people.
A clear admission of him committing a felony. Now all you have to do is wait for him to open up his business.
Dear rest of SR,
This is why you don't run your mouth about what you do or plan to do. Seriously, everything you say on here is being monitored. The only reason drganja isn't going to get ass-raped in Fed-prison is because I'm making this comment and drawing his attention to it(hopefully). That gives him a chance to change his horribly thought out plans and NOT reveal them on the forums where every law enforcement agency that gives a shit is looking for a bust, ANY bust, they can tout to the media.
Seriously drganja, I'd apologize for ruining your plans, but if you really went through with them after that... I'd be guilty of letting you get ass-raped in Federal prison instead. I'm doing you a favor, and the only thing you have to do is not use that name. And try not to fuck up again. Don't name your business. Not in public, not in private, not even to your best friend Joe who is also on the forums and that you're sending PMs to.
SR isn't like fight club. Talk about fight club all you like, for what I care. But when you're in fight club? You ONLY talk about fight club.