Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: dss3i on October 13, 2012, 09:39 pm
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A vendor asked me to place an order so he can take a look at my buyer stats before he decides if he will let me purchase from him. If I place an order, and he cancels it, will that cost me anything and if it does, how much?
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Don't deal with that vendor they seem a bit retarded. They see your stats when you order the thing you actually want.
I think hes just trying to get another 5/5 transaction.
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Don't deal with that vendor they seem a bit retarded. They see your stats when you order the thing you actually want.
I think hes just trying to get another 5/5 transaction.
As midlandsmafia stated above, the vendor can see your purchasing stats once you place an order with them. They can then cancel the order if they do not wish to do business with you.
Whether a cancelled order costs you anything or not will depend on whether the order is hedged or not.
If it is hedged and the vendor cancels it (or you cancel it yourself after 4 days when the option becomes available to you) you will get your Bitcoin back minus the 4% hedging fee (which goes directly to Silk Road, not the vendor).
If the order is not hedged you will receive your Bitcoin back in full.
- grahamgreene
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This is actually a fairly common practice
and its actually the vendor doing you a favor
the cost to place an order (SR commission) is a percentage of the cost of the order, therefore if the vendor has a listing for 0.0 btc then they can check your stats without it costing you anything
however, if you were to place the actual order, and then they didnt like your stats and canceled the order, you would lose the commission
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A vendor asked me to place an order so he can take a look at my buyer stats before he decides if he will let me purchase from him. If I place an order, and he cancels it, will that cost me anything and if it does, how much?
In another thread, didn't you say you were worried that the seller was LE? And that the vendor had 0 transactions?
I dunno, it might be better to see if there's another vendor selling what you want ....
Yes, I did, and this is the same vendor. I have no reason at all to believe he is LE, but he has no previous sells, and he's been here for a month, so I just had a thought he might be collecting addresses, but never selling. There is no other vendor whom I'd like to buy from, so perhaps I'll have to study the hard way.
Most vendors do hedge I think, and I'm not willing to give up 4% of the money in case he decides to cancel my order. Can vendors say anything about the buyer? When I look at my buyer stats I only see what I said about the vendor, and that part I can send him in a message so he can make up his mind before I place an order.
And, no, the vendor doesn't have a 0.0 BTC purchase that I can order to let him see my stats.
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This is actually a fairly common practice
and its actually the vendor doing you a favor
the cost to place an order (SR commission) is a percentage of the cost of the order, therefore if the vendor has a listing for 0.0 btc then they can check your stats without it costing you anything
however, if you were to place the actual order, and then they didnt like your stats and canceled the order, you would lose the commission
That is incorrect.
Commission is paid by the vendor upon the successful completion of a transaction, not by the buyer upon ordering. When the money is released from escrow the vendor receives the amount that their product is advertised for, minus commission. The only way that a buyer would lose money from a cancelled order is if the order is hedged, as outlined in my last post.
Quoted from the 'Pricing' section of the Seller's Guide:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide
You may also choose whether to set your price before or after commission is added. If you choose "pre-commission pricing", the price you set will be the amount of money you are paid when a transaction is complete, but your customers will see a higher price that includes the commission. If you choose "post-commission pricing", you set the price that your customers pay. When you get paid, the amount you receive will be less than this by the amount of the commission.
Either way, commission is only taken from a successful sale.
- grahamgreene
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Why not just copy and paste your stats to him in a message? If he approves, then make the order. He will then be able to see if you were showing him your real stats. If you did then there is nothing to worry about. If you lied, he cancels.
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Why not just copy and paste your stats to him in a message? If he approves, then make the order. He will then be able to see if you were showing him your real stats. If you did then there is nothing to worry about. If you lied, he cancels.
I already did. I'm waiting for a reply.
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i guess i am wrong, i was basing it off that i thought i had lost money on an unhedged canceled order in the past (not cause of btc value, but could have missed that is was hedged)
thanks for correcting/clarifying
i also thought it was the vendor who payed the hedge fee though so i guess i remembered it backward. not a vendor so never payed much attention evidently
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i guess i am wrong, i was basing it off that i thought i had lost money on an unhedged canceled order in the past (not cause of btc value, but could have missed that is was hedged)
thanks for correcting/clarifying
i also thought it was the vendor who payed the hedge fee though so i guess i remembered it backward. not a vendor so never payed much attention evidently
I just spend far too much time here is all. :P
As far as the hedging fee goes, it's paid by the vendor on the successful completion of a transaction. However in the case of a cancelled transaction the fee is still charged because the Bitcoin was being held in escrow and not being subject to Bitcoin value fluctuation.
The Bitcoin is returned to the buyer and the buyer pays by way of the hedging fee for the privilege of getting the same amount of Bitcoin back as opposed to getting less back in the event of a price drop whilst the amount is held in escrow; in the case of the last price crash, people would have only received 50% of their Bitcoin back so 4% is, in my opinion at least, a small price to pay on the rare occasion that an order is cancelled. :)
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ah that makes sense now +1
i agree hedging can definitely be worth the fee, but then its always annoying if you pay to lose out during the rare chance coins actually happen to go up :)
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ah that makes sense now +1
i agree hedging can definitely be worth the fee, but then its always annoying if you pay to lose out during the rare chance coins actually happen to go up :)
True, but in the event of a price crash Silk Road takes the hit via hedging to ensure buyers don't take the hit as a result of value flux. It also ensures that sellers don't take a hit either.
The Escrow Hedging section of the Seller's Guide explains the reasoning quite well, with the part in asterisks being the most relevant here:
Escrow Hedging
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin exchange rate isn't as stable as we would all like it to be, and can fluctuate wildly in a matter of hours, let alone the days or weeks it takes for a package to arrive. Because of this, there is a real danger that the Bitcoins being held in your escrow account will lose value by the time your customers finalize their orders. So, we've given you the option to hedge the future payments you are expecting from escrow such that the dollar value of the payment doesn't change as the Bitcoin exchange rate changes.
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For example, someone purchases one of your 10 btc listings. The dollar value of the order when purchased is $100. Now, a week later when the transaction is finalized, those 10 btc are no longer worth $100, they're worth $50! Because you hedged the escrow, you won't get paid 10 btc, you'll get 20 btc equaling the original value of $100. Of course, the opposite is also true. If Bitcoins appreciate in value while your payment is in escrow, you'll get fewer Bitcoins, but they will still equal the original dollar value.
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The option to turn off or on escrow hedging can be found on your "settings" page. While it is on, the payments for any orders placed with you will be hedged. Payments for orders placed while it is off will not be hedged, but any hedged orders still not finalized will remain hedged.
On your account page, your escrow balances are split up between hedged and unhedged orders. All orders are hedged as soon as they are placed and unhedged as soon as you are paid.
You can expect a loss of about 4% of your normal payment when using the escrow hedging feature. This is due to the fact that, both when hedging and unhedging, you will lose the bid-ask spread between the available orders that can be used to fill your hedging order.
If you need the most up-to-date USD/BTC exchange rate, we recommend mtgoxlive.com.
With hedged orders Silk Road pays the vendor the original Dollar value of the order no matter what (less the hedging fee) - as outlined in the Seller's Guide, SR stands to lose quite a bit when the price drops so it wouldn't be fair to ask them to compensate us when the price rises!
I just realised that debating the above is totally unnecessary! :-X I agree with you, it's annoying when you pay 4% to lose out if Bitcoin value increases. Christ I need to get out more haha.
- grahamgreene
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Hedging is good when value drops and bad when value rises. :)
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All the hedging particulars aside... I find it hard to believe that the OP is unable to find a comparable vendor to place an order with who has the same product for a similar price. Having been here for a while as a buyer and now as a vendor, we haven't seen much in the way of exclusivity on any product.
...Unless of course you're in the market for a private jet (shroomeister) or an armored vehicle (limitless) haha
.Hades.
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Most vendors don't ship 50 mg Vyvanse pills internationally. I don't care what you believe.
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:o You must have missed the 'haha' at the end of my comment... I was only half serious. Relax, my friend.
.Hades.
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If I ever need to check a buyers stats I just ask them to message them to me.
with the implication that if they lie and I cancel their order because of it.... it is their own fault.
Even without saying it out loud no one has ever lied to me in this situation.
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Shroom. Let's be friends so I can borrow your jet :D 8)
.Hades.