Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Ooohmani on October 07, 2012, 08:28 pm
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So I bought some porno off a nice smut peddler on SR, but when I go to finalize it won't let me click on it. Does anybody have an idea as to why this is?
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It is probably because you purchased it from a new vendor. Until a vendor has completed 35 transactions, their orders cannot be finalized for 2/3 days (not sure which) after the order status is changed to 'in transit'.
Hope this helps :)
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O yeah, they are a new vendor.
Thank you psychedelicmind because the search function was failing me!
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35 transactions! C'mon, that sucks... I'm a new vendor and scared to work with new buyers, but wanted to give them the option to FE if THEY insisted on it, but that won't work...
And I've even sent express packages to a few established buyers, going from my hands to their hands on the other side of the country in ~20 hours, and they can't click finalize for days after!
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This is a terrible feature. I am a new vendor and very upset by this rule.
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It is annoying (and sometimes funny when a customer can't finalize because the package got there too quickly) but it is there for a reason. 35 transactions isn't really that much. I've been vending for a week and a half (including my samples period) and am about halfway there. It prevents people from opening a new vendor account, requiring FE and then scamming everyone who ordered and then just making a new account etc. You have to put in effort as a (hopefully) solid vendor first.
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This is a terrible feature. I am a new vendor and very upset by this rule.
As you stated, you're a new vendor; if you were of the scamming type you could ask buyers to FE, not send out any product, and just run off with their money. A scammer only has to make $150 before breaking even and everything above that is pure profit.
35 transactions! C'mon, that sucks... I'm a new vendor and scared to work with new buyers, but wanted to give them the option to FE if THEY insisted on it, but that won't work...
And I've even sent express packages to a few established buyers, going from my hands to their hands on the other side of the country in ~20 hours, and they can't click finalize for days after!
Why on earth would a buyer insist on Finalizing Early and removing themselves from the safety of the escrow system for a new vendor?! That is absurd! ???
The restriction on new vendors is 35+ transactions and 1+ month of vending. If you reach either without the other, you will still not be able to ask buyers to FE. Speaking of which, I would always recommend new buyers NOT to FE; 99% of the time you WILL be able to find a vendor who will work within the escrow system for your safety, and the vendor's safety.
It is annoying (and sometimes funny when a customer can't finalize because the package got there too quickly) but it is there for a reason. 35 transactions isn't really that much. I've been vending for a week and a half (including my samples period) and am about halfway there. It prevents people from opening a new vendor account, requiring FE and then scamming everyone who ordered and then just making a new account etc. You have to put in effort as a (hopefully) solid vendor first.
Glad to see a new vendor here who recognises the importance of the escrow system. Welcome, and best of luck with your new venture. :)
- grahamgreene
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if you were of the scamming type you could ask buyers to FE, not send out any product, and just run off with their money
You're assuming that I am of this "type." Frankly, I'm not, and this is keeping me from shipping out orders. My policies do not allow new buyers to enjoy escrow privileges for my own protection. So I am essentially forced to make my customers wait 72 hrs to finalize early when they have already agreed in good faith to take the risk upon themselves, seeing my glowing feedback? What if they decide that they want the product quicker and go to a more established dealer and I lose them for good regardless of my moral integrity? This rule makes absolutely no sense to me.
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grahamgreene, you're so confrontational and forward. I love it. Haha.. any chance you're a New Yorker? Since my team moved to Cali, we miss the lovely people of NYC. Our here we have to deal with the endless supply of 'actors'.
Having to wait for someone to finalize is kind of annoying as new vendor. Because we only deal domestically (in the US), there have been many cases where packages arrive well before customers are allowed to finalize. That being said, 35 transactions isn't a big deal and waiting 2 days for someone to finalize is a lot better than having these clowns who don't finalize for 2 weeks even though their package arrived in 2 days. THAT is annoying.
.Hades.
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if vendors would follow the rules and not request FE before they are allowed to, SR would not have had to implement the system making it impossible to finalize before a certain time...
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if vendors would follow the rules and not request FE before they are allowed to, SR would not have had to implement the system making it impossible to finalize before a certain time...
110% agree. Also worth noting that I was complaining at all really as we don't intend to require FE at any point. That and... well, it is what it is. Was really more just identifying with the issue at hand :P
.Hades.
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MicroRNA, am I expected as a new seller to put shipments in escrow for buyers with less than 5 feedback? I am not trying to scam, what I am trying to do is safeguard myself from someone ordering a few pills, then claiming that the shipment never arrived or something of that nature. What I don't understand is that a legit scammer can still wait the 72 hrs, as well as complete 35 transactions and wait a month, possibly taking a loss on their product and then rip a bunch of people off. These "preventative" measures really are interfering with the free flow of goods and services. My customers are being withheld their badly needed products because of some "scammer" somewhere that had nothing to do with either parties wishing to conduct a mutually beneficial transaction. This is a strong barrier to entry that is promoting an environment where the established seller has a strong monopolistic advantage. The other mod even alluded to this as being a good thing!
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i dont support FE period. even as a new buyer i refused to FE, i choose to use vendors that allowed me to stay in escrow
the rules are very clear for new vendors unfortunately do to the amount of scams buyers have to deal with. of course this policy does not prevent them from scamming completely but it is a step to help at least.
vendors can take their own steps to protect themselves from reverse scams without having to require FE
basically your best option is to require new buyers or those with poor stats to pay the additional cost for tracking or delivery confirmation. then, even if they claim they didnt receive the package during resolution you have evidence to prove otherwise
alternatively you could have a strict policy upfront that anyone with fewer than a certain number of transactions or a specific refund rate is not entitled to a refund no matter what - if they want to order its at their own risk (i would say unless they use tracking and you can see their order was not delivered)
every vendor will have to deal with the occasional buyer saying if you dont do this i will leave bad feedback - and you should tell em to fuck off. if you are legit the positive reviews will speak for themselves because every vendor gets the occasional negative feedback
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I do provide DC. But this does not prove that I actually shipped the product itself. That is why I want to guard myself against fraud by requiring FE.
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But I guess my primary concern was that rogue bad apple. Thanks for the feedback micro, although I still think the ban should be lifted.
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As a vendor, DCN is your saving grace. If something goes to resolution with a customer claiming you sent an empty package or whatever... I'm sure they'll be able to discern if you're getting a lot of these complaints or it's a one-off bullshit buyer.
Further, bitching here about rules we all have to/had to follow, isn't helping your case. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Accept it, or vend elsewhere.
2btc.
.Hades.
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Further, bitching here about rules we all have to/had to follow, isn't helping your case. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Accept it, or vend elsewhere.
Well said.
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if you were of the scamming type you could ask buyers to FE, not send out any product, and just run off with their money
You're assuming that I am of this "type."
Am I? Can you point out where I supposedly assumed you were the scamming type? ???
I used the word "if" which introduces a conditional clause into a sentence; that means that what I said was exactly this: "In the case that you were of a scamming disposition you could ask buyers to FE, not send out any product, and just run off with their money; the reason being that scammers only have to make $150 before they break even."
I'll try to 'dumb down' any responses I make to your posts so as to prevent any potential misunderstanding in future.
Frankly, I'm not, and this is keeping me from shipping out orders. My policies do not allow new buyers to enjoy escrow privileges for my own protection. So I am essentially forced to make my customers wait 72 hrs to finalize early when they have already agreed in good faith to take the risk upon themselves, seeing my glowing feedback?
It's not keeping you from shipping out orders. You're deciding not to send out orders because you can't request that buyers FE. The system is not stopping you from sending out orders; you have decided to do that. As a new vendor with less than 35 transactions your policies are breaking the rules set out in the Silk Road Seller's Guide, which you agreed to abide by upon becoming a vendor, stating that you are prohibited from asking buyers to FE before you've reached the requisite 1 month of selling and 35 transactions.
The section under the "Listing" heading in the Seller's Guide (http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide) which pertains to your situation is as follows:
NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling priviledges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.
The Seller Contract (http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/register_seller) states the following:
Client anonymity. You and you alone will have your client's shipping address. This information must be destroyed as soon as it is used to label their package.
Packaging. Every precaution must be taken to maintain the secrecy of the contents of your client's package. It is your responsibility to stay up-to-date on the latest stealth shipping methods.
Describe your items accurately and truthfully.
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Treat your customers with respect. Go above and beyond for them.
Read the Seller's Guide. Don't skip this step as it includes further information you will held accountable for as a Vendor!
If you have used this account as a buyer, stop now. You want to use a fresh, clean, account.
Remember, violating the rules here will result in your Vendor account being banned.
*****
The section between the asterisks is the part that pertains to the current discussion. By introducing policies that direct buyers to Finalize Early you are violating the rules; as a result your Vendor account will be banned should it be brought to the attention of Silk Road administrators.
What if they decide that they want the product quicker and go to a more established dealer and I lose them for good regardless of my moral integrity? This rule makes absolutely no sense to me.
This part is irrelevant as you are currently prohibited from asking buyers to FE, so asking them to do so immediately or asking them to do so after 3 days makes no difference. If they want their product to be sent out when the vendor has marked it 'in transit' then yes, they'll most likely decide to use a vendor who abides by the rules. Your supposed "moral integrity" holds no sway here - this is an anonymous marketplace, you're not standing for election to public office. Nobody has any way of knowing whether you have 'good morals' or not; indeed Tony76 pulled off the biggest scam this community has ever seen by demanding FE for orders after building up a 'good moral standing' in the community.
If any of the above is unclear to you, please feel free to contact me via PM and I will reword it in a simpler fashion.
- grahamgreene
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grahamgreene, you're so confrontational and forward. I love it. Haha.. any chance you're a New Yorker? Since my team moved to Cali, we miss the lovely people of NYC. Our here we have to deal with the endless supply of 'actors'.
If you check my posts from when I originally started posting here you'll see a completely different side of me! The recent influx of new members seems to have brought a large number of people who cannot employ logic in their thought processes - as a result of their posts I've become a cold, bitter old man. :P
Not from NYC either, I'm Irish. Same difference though, I suppose. :P
- grahamgreene
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Well, with grahamgreene's recent post, I believe this thread is dead (the one that addresses the issues at hand, not the one directed at me). Very well put and definitely leaves no case to argue.
And grahamgreene, I totally hear what you're saying. While we've only been active around here for a month or so, I'd like to think we were never 'that stupid' haha.
.Hades.
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/me revives the thread
The section under the "Listing" heading in the Seller's Guide (http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide) which pertains to your situation is as follows:
NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling priviledges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.
I'm more in disagreement with, well, what technically isn't a rule but is implemented to prevent breaking a rule. Apparently, I'm a kickass vendor, because with nearly every transaction so far has been an express order, which is sent out within 12 hours, and received ~20 later. So, once I sent a message with a tracking number to a buyer, s/he should be able to click Finalize (since it isn't Finalizing Early). But I can see the ambiguity possible with that scenario from non-legitimate sellers. Still, after someone receives their order 30 hours after purchasing it, they should be able to leave feedback while the transaction is fresh in their mind. I've had to PM people days later to remind them that they can finalize now (and I care that they do so I can add another feedback rating to my history so I get less people messaging asking for a free sample or some special scenario because they don't trust my feedback yet, understandably).
And aside from that, the main reason which I guess I'll have to wait to do, is so I don't have to hedge my escrow funds. Instead, I can make a judgement call as an investor and save ~4% (or take the risk to be able to) since I know the funds wouldn't be in escrow more than a dozen or two hours.
No buyer worth his volume in nitrogen is going to FE for a new vendor--they'll only FE for a trusted vendor, and ultimately most vendors probably go out with a bang (where bang = big FE scam). Takes 0 effort for them and effectually allows them to "cash in" on what their reputation is worth. And to everyone saying 35 transactions isn't a lot, it depends what you're selling. When every transaction is hundreds of dollars like I've been doing, 35 is still a ways away! I'm still 400-800 BTC away at my avg transaction! The system practically encourages new vendors to do things like lottery scams, or real lotteries with $1 tickets. Is that against the rules somewhere where I missed? Can I hold a legitimate lottery with $1 tickets and only 30 tickets sold, with one guaranteed winner of $30?
I guess I'll just keep chugging along, confident in knowing that I possibly have the BEST stealth of any vendor, combined with incredible speed and amazing communication, but I don't get to personally benefit any more than if I were a run-of-the-mill regular ol' slow shipper or vendor that requires FE for every purchase, or the typical "click shipped, then sit on it 5 days before shipping". THAT shouldn't be allowed, e.g. no one can click finalize for 36 hours. But seriously, what about the $30 lottery?
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I suppose all I can do is restate the fact that bitching about something that everyone has to follow is pretty pointless. Also, careful about your claim to the best stealth here... our customers, we're certain, would beg to differ. 8)
I jest somewhat, but yea... rules are rules. lol
.Hades.