Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: N1ghtmare on September 24, 2012, 10:15 am
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
We have had enough.
For a long time have we been members here, and for a long time have we had to endure the terribly high prices the vendors force upon us. And by "us" I mean the intellectually burdened psychonauts around the world who have no access to LSD locally and will never be able to get it without the help of Silk Road or other similar online markets. I, however, would like to address this problem particularly on Silk Road due to it being the most well known and well moderated of them all.
"So buy other psychedelics" you say. Well, my dear friend, unfortunately, in the country where we reside nothing more than a slip of blotter paper would be able to get past customs (yes, we've tried other variants), and other drugs that may be put on a blotter will never give us the experience we are looking for.
"But LSD is hard to produce/ship/market/etc" you say. Well, my good man, street prices for LSD vary from 1$ (standard 50mcg - 80mcg) to 10$ (250mcg - >300mcg pre-ban quality stuff) and sheet prices range from $100 to $500 (talking about legit dealers here, not rip off artists) depending on blotter strength and the values of the person selling them (as psychonauts will never charge a high price to fellow psychonauts). Here I see prices of over $1000 for a sheet of lowest quality LSD, which is more than outrageous. So, since it's us who will pay for the shipping, how much can a vendor possibly overcharge for putting a slip of paper in an envelope and going to a post office? And don't even think of giving me the SR tax excuse.
We the psychonauts are faced with the terrible problem of having to pay huge amounts of money for miniscule amounts of LSD that is most likely half as dosed as the vendor claims it to be, could be not LSD at all (which puts our lives at risk) and possibly not even receive it in the end. LSD production is on the rise, and LSD consumption is firmly climbing to the pre-ban rates and our patience is plummeting through the ground. Enough of this monopoly.
Just because this isn't a legal market doesn't mean we aren't entitled to what we pay for. And we believe that Silk Road was founded on the principles of free market. Silk Road is supposed to be the freest of them all.
That is why from this point onward we are boycotting any LSD that is sold for a price of higher than $0,05 (that's 5 cents) per mcg. That is more than double the price of street vendors, more than enough to cover any costs and leave you a profit, dear vendor.
Peace & Love,
Psychonauts from around the world.
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And we believe that Silk Road was founded on the principles of free market. Silk Road is supposed to be the freest of them all.
There ya go! Silk Road IS a free market - vendors are free to charge what they like, and they do so because people are willing to pay the asking price. It goes back to the basic laws of supply and demand - there is a huge demand for good LSD and very little supply here. If ten LSD vendors arrived on the scene tomorrow and started selling top quality LSD at half the price of their competitors, the competitors would either have to drop their prices to match the new vendor's, or stop selling LSD altogether if it became unprofitable for them to sell it at such a low price.
You rail against the prices charged, but as this IS a free market you're more than welcome to set up shop yourself and sell LSD at a much lower price. If the supply of top quality LSD increases and the new vendors charge lower prices, LSD prices will fall in general as vendors try to recapture their market share. Supply and demand.
Put simply, you may be unwilling to pay the prices advertised but the reason that prices remain "high" is because others are willing to pay them. And I place "high" in quotation marks as the view of prices being high is entirely subjective. It is relative to how much money each person has, and whether they value that money more than the item they're trading that money for. That is true for every single purchase that has and will ever be made. The item being purchased has more value to the purchaser than the coins in their pocket, whether it be a loaf of bread or a Rolex watch. Whilst you obviously value 82.66 Bitcoin more than a sheet of LSD for $1,000 (current Bitcoin value), others clearly value the LSD higher than the Bitcoin, hence the reason that vendors can charge the prices they do.
- grahamgreene
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Definitely a free market. Boycott's are part of the free market though. I don't think a boycott is realistic but I'd advise others (friends or not) to please not spend $10 on a blotter of stuff from a new vendor or a vendor with an inferior product especially because we do have better options here if you're patient.
I was surprised to find the limited supply of LSD when I came to SR though. I mean, a 30g batch of LSD would be 150,000 200µg doses. Seems like SR would be an easy place to find buyers interested in bulk. Due to the small masses needed for an effective dose, it is easier to smuggle than drugs like cocaine of course.
Regardless, it is what it is. All that I can do is hope that the situation improves. If more production can be found I think both vendors and buyers here will benefit.
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I am sorry n1ghtmare but those "legit" dealers who you buy street LSD from for cheap probably aren't as honest as they claim.. I can't say for certain but I thought that I have dosed on LSD many times but after discovering SR and seeing the real prices of LSD it made me realize that what I tried probably was not LSD.
Unless you have a kit and you can swear that you've tested it and it came back positive for acid than I would be willing to bet money that it was really some other kind of chemical. You go to a show and you buy blotters or even get them from someone you know, they will tell you its lsd but odds are they don't know any better the same way people sell bath salts as if it were true molly.
I would bet money that 90% of dealers selling lsd are not really selling lsd. And the market reflects my statement also. If your getting 10$ hits then its most likely 25 nbome or something like that..
I wish it were different because I would love to try some real acid.
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And we believe that Silk Road was founded on the principles of free market. Silk Road is supposed to be the freest of them all.
I don't think that word "free" means what you think it means here. It's not free as in beer or "gratis". It's free as in you have free choice to choose whoever you want. Which includes the choice to not buy (as you seem to be doing). But also free for everyone else to decide if they want to buy. Or even whether or not they're going to be dictated to by someone who doesn't know the first thing about them as to whom they're "allowed" to buy from or not.
I won't be boycotting.
Next.
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There ya go! Silk Road IS a free market - vendors are free to charge what they like, and they do so because people are willing to pay the asking price. It goes back to the basic laws of supply and demand - there is a huge demand for good LSD and very little supply here. If ten LSD vendors arrived on the scene tomorrow and started selling top quality LSD at half the price of their competitors, the competitors would either have to drop their prices to match the new vendor's, or stop selling LSD altogether if it became unprofitable for them to sell it at such a low price.
I don't think that word "free" means what you think it means here. It's not free as in beer or "gratis". It's free as in you have free choice to choose whoever you want. Which includes the choice to not buy (as you seem to be doing). But also free for everyone else to decide if they want to buy. Or even whether or not they're going to be dictated to by someone who doesn't know the first thing about them as to whom they're "allowed" to buy from or not.
You two completely missed the point, my dear friends.
I never denied your right to buy LSD for those prices. Go ahead, by all means, it's your money.
What I am saying is that the prices that are set in this market are unjustly high. And I'm not saying this because I happened to buy LSD cheaper at some party once. The reason I have started this topic is that I was able to visit a place which had excellent quality LSD (and I am 100% sure it is LSD) for the prices stated above. But, alas, I do not live there, and do not have access to it.
I am almost completely sure, however, that the vendors here have at least partial access to that supply, as most of the world's LSD is made in a limited number of places.
And I'm not saying all vendors are that way. I have no doubts in great vendors like Del.Ellis and VitaCat, who actually provide the quality they claim to provide for the more or less reasonable price.
What I am saying, is that by buying LSD at such unreasonable prices we allow those prices to exist. If we stop buying - they will be forced to lower their prices.
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There ya go! Silk Road IS a free market - vendors are free to charge what they like, and they do so because people are willing to pay the asking price. It goes back to the basic laws of supply and demand - there is a huge demand for good LSD and very little supply here. If ten LSD vendors arrived on the scene tomorrow and started selling top quality LSD at half the price of their competitors, the competitors would either have to drop their prices to match the new vendor's, or stop selling LSD altogether if it became unprofitable for them to sell it at such a low price.
I don't think that word "free" means what you think it means here. It's not free as in beer or "gratis". It's free as in you have free choice to choose whoever you want. Which includes the choice to not buy (as you seem to be doing). But also free for everyone else to decide if they want to buy. Or even whether or not they're going to be dictated to by someone who doesn't know the first thing about them as to whom they're "allowed" to buy from or not.
You two completely missed the point, my dear friends.
I never denied your right to buy LSD for those prices. Go ahead, by all means, it's your money.
What I am saying is that the prices that are set in this market are unjustly high. And I'm not saying this because I happened to buy LSD cheaper at some party once. The reason I have started this topic is that I was able to visit a place which had excellent quality LSD (and I am 100% sure it is LSD) for the prices stated above. But, alas, I do not live there, and do not have access to it.
I am almost completely sure, however, that the vendors here have at least partial access to that supply, as most of the world's LSD is made in a limited number of places.
And I'm not saying all vendors are that way. I have no doubts in great vendors like Del.Ellis and VitaCat, who actually provide the quality they claim to provide for the more or less reasonable price.
What I am saying, is that by buying LSD at such unreasonable prices we allow those prices to exist. If we stop buying - they will be forced to lower their prices.
I think you need to read my post again N1ghtmare link. I explained to you the concept of supply and demand, and the exact reason for the prices of LSD here. The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective. Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices.
If enough people judged the prices to be too high and didn't buy the product, then the prices would likely drop as vendors attempt to recapture their market share and clear their product. I think this is what you're getting at with your 'boycott' idea, but such a method would be impossible to implement in a free market such as this, mainly because a boycott requires a sufficient number of people to stop buying a certain product.
As the majority of buyers are obviously happy enough with the prices they're paying (as is evident by the fact that they continue to pay them), a 'boycott' would be enacted mainly by the people that are not happy to pay the prices currently being advertised, making it unlikely that they're purchasing LSD on Silk Road in the first place specifically because they're not willing to pay SR prices.
Thus it stands to reason that the majority of the people boycotting the product will be people who aren't actually buying the product in the first place, therefore having little to no impact on the vendor's sales; hence no effect on the vendor's prices.
- grahamgreene
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The price will rise and fall based on the customer demand and vendor supply. Read an economics book. You cannot "fix" a market with justifications on why you feel something is overpriced. If the market is overpriced, grab your balls and take advantage of the high price as a vendor.
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There ya go! Silk Road IS a free market - vendors are free to charge what they like, and they do so because people are willing to pay the asking price. It goes back to the basic laws of supply and demand - there is a huge demand for good LSD and very little supply here. If ten LSD vendors arrived on the scene tomorrow and started selling top quality LSD at half the price of their competitors, the competitors would either have to drop their prices to match the new vendor's, or stop selling LSD altogether if it became unprofitable for them to sell it at such a low price.
I don't think that word "free" means what you think it means here. It's not free as in beer or "gratis". It's free as in you have free choice to choose whoever you want. Which includes the choice to not buy (as you seem to be doing). But also free for everyone else to decide if they want to buy. Or even whether or not they're going to be dictated to by someone who doesn't know the first thing about them as to whom they're "allowed" to buy from or not.
You two completely missed the point, my dear friends.
I never denied your right to buy LSD for those prices. Go ahead, by all means, it's your money.
What I am saying is that the prices that are set in this market are unjustly high. And I'm not saying this because I happened to buy LSD cheaper at some party once. The reason I have started this topic is that I was able to visit a place which had excellent quality LSD (and I am 100% sure it is LSD) for the prices stated above. But, alas, I do not live there, and do not have access to it.
I am almost completely sure, however, that the vendors here have at least partial access to that supply, as most of the world's LSD is made in a limited number of places.
And I'm not saying all vendors are that way. I have no doubts in great vendors like Del.Ellis and VitaCat, who actually provide the quality they claim to provide for the more or less reasonable price.
What I am saying, is that by buying LSD at such unreasonable prices we allow those prices to exist. If we stop buying - they will be forced to lower their prices.
I think you need to read my post again N1ghtmare link. I explained to you the concept of supply and demand, and the exact reason for the prices of LSD here. The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective. Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices.
If enough people judged the prices to be too high and didn't buy the product, then the prices would likely drop as vendors attempt to recapture their market share and clear their product. I think this is what you're getting at with your 'boycott' idea, but such a method would be impossible to implement in a free market such as this, mainly because a boycott requires a sufficient number of people to stop buying a certain product.
As the majority of buyers are obviously happy enough with the prices they're paying (as is evident by the fact that they continue to pay them), a 'boycott' would be enacted mainly by the people that are not happy to pay the prices currently being advertised, making it unlikely that they're purchasing LSD on Silk Road in the first place specifically because they're not willing to pay SR prices.
Thus it stands to reason that the majority of the people boycotting the product will be people who aren't actually buying the product in the first place, therefore having little to no impact on the vendor's sales; hence no effect on the vendor's prices.
- grahamgreene
I support the idea of what you are trying to do brother, but the simple fact is that it's not going to work.. if we boycott the LSD that's available to us now, they will simply stop listing the product once it sells out. In the end, the most consistent vendor is going to get the most business. Consistent with quality, consistent with stock, and consistent with non-seizures. The prices you claim for a hit and a sheet must not be from you, and if they were then why haven't you picked up a vendors account, bought some sheets for $500 in your area and offered them here on the road? LSD production is on the rise, says who? Do you boycott gas prices in your area by riding a bicycle everywhere? probably not. Maybe you goto the cheapest gas station, for the same grade of gas. The point is, if there was only one vendor here on the road, supplying consistent quality LSD, he could charge whatever he wanted, until another vendor came along and charged a little less. Then it becomes a competition of price vs quality. The guy who has the higher quality may or may not have the stock to keep up with the demand. And when that guy sells out, guess what? Whoever wants LSD, and wants it now, is going to go with the last man standing, who can charge whatever he wants.
If you can find it in your area, I encourage you to share the love on the road. Try what you seem to be criticizing.. stick some paper in those envelopes and ship them around the globe. Learn from your mistakes. I think you are criticizing something you don't fully understand here, man. Sorry.
In other words.. in a MARKET, ("gas stations" within a "city", "vendors" within a "community")
if DEMAND > SUPPLY = higher prices
if SUPPLY > DEMAND = lower prices
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I think you need to read my post again N1ghtmare link. I explained to you the concept of supply and demand, and the exact reason for the prices of LSD here. The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective. Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices.
If enough people judged the prices to be too high and didn't buy the product, then the prices would likely drop as vendors attempt to recapture their market share and clear their product. I think this is what you're getting at with your 'boycott' idea, but such a method would be impossible to implement in a free market such as this, mainly because a boycott requires a sufficient number of people to stop buying a certain product.
As the majority of buyers are obviously happy enough with the prices they're paying (as is evident by the fact that they continue to pay them), a 'boycott' would be enacted mainly by the people that are not happy to pay the prices currently being advertised, making it unlikely that they're purchasing LSD on Silk Road in the first place specifically because they're not willing to pay SR prices.
Thus it stands to reason that the majority of the people boycotting the product will be people who aren't actually buying the product in the first place, therefore having little to no impact on the vendor's sales; hence no effect on the vendor's prices.
- grahamgreene
I support the idea of what you are trying to do brother, but the simple fact is that it's not going to work.. if we boycott the LSD that's available to us now, they will simply stop listing the product once it sells out. In the end, the most consistent vendor is going to get the most business. Consistent with quality, consistent with stock, and consistent with non-seizures. The prices you claim for a hit and a sheet must not be from you, and if they were then why haven't you picked up a vendors account, bought some sheets for $500 in your area and offered them here on the road? LSD production is on the rise, says who? Do you boycott gas prices in your area by riding a bicycle everywhere? probably not. Maybe you goto the cheapest gas station, for the same grade of gas. The point is, if there was only one vendor here on the road, supplying consistent quality LSD, he could charge whatever he wanted, until another vendor came along and charged a little less. Then it becomes a competition of price vs quality. The guy who has the higher quality may or may not have the stock to keep up with the demand. And when that guy sells out, guess what? Whoever wants LSD, and wants it now, is going to go with the last man standing, who can charge whatever he wants.
If you can find it in your area, I encourage you to share the love on the road. Try what you seem to be criticizing.. stick some paper in those envelopes and ship them around the globe. Learn from your mistakes. I think you are criticizing something you don't fully understand here, man. Sorry.
I presume you're talking to N1ghtmare here, right? ???
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So we have a vendor like 3jane. Who charges 580$/sheet and sells out in 18 minutes. So she could probably charge alot more, and still sell out within one day. And she knows this, we all know this (and we are very greatful :D). She keeps her needs in mind, her customers needs in mind, and delivers quality product to most of us at a rate slightly above what you say should be the market rate (5 cents into 100 mics is 5 dollars a blot), but honestly what i think most of us would consider a seriously intense rate for quality of the acid she provides man. So she is a great vendor. I would consider albion too very similar, and a few others maybe. We all know the situation man, we hope it changes for the better. But you gotta recognize the effort, and utilize where possible mate. If i had boycotted 3jane i would be a sitting duck today instead of having my 100-100ug blotter order 3 days in transit :D ps, im fucking excited, first time trying 3jane, wouldnt seems like it the way i rave about her im sure haha. Take care mate, i really do hope the situation gets better though, just glad that im sorted for the next couple of months atleast :D
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I think you need to read my post again N1ghtmare link. I explained to you the concept of supply and demand, and the exact reason for the prices of LSD here. The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective. Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices.
If enough people judged the prices to be too high and didn't buy the product, then the prices would likely drop as vendors attempt to recapture their market share and clear their product. I think this is what you're getting at with your 'boycott' idea, but such a method would be impossible to implement in a free market such as this, mainly because a boycott requires a sufficient number of people to stop buying a certain product.
As the majority of buyers are obviously happy enough with the prices they're paying (as is evident by the fact that they continue to pay them), a 'boycott' would be enacted mainly by the people that are not happy to pay the prices currently being advertised, making it unlikely that they're purchasing LSD on Silk Road in the first place specifically because they're not willing to pay SR prices.
Thus it stands to reason that the majority of the people boycotting the product will be people who aren't actually buying the product in the first place, therefore having little to no impact on the vendor's sales; hence no effect on the vendor's prices.
- grahamgreene
I support the idea of what you are trying to do brother, but the simple fact is that it's not going to work.. if we boycott the LSD that's available to us now, they will simply stop listing the product once it sells out. In the end, the most consistent vendor is going to get the most business. Consistent with quality, consistent with stock, and consistent with non-seizures. The prices you claim for a hit and a sheet must not be from you, and if they were then why haven't you picked up a vendors account, bought some sheets for $500 in your area and offered them here on the road? LSD production is on the rise, says who? Do you boycott gas prices in your area by riding a bicycle everywhere? probably not. Maybe you goto the cheapest gas station, for the same grade of gas. The point is, if there was only one vendor here on the road, supplying consistent quality LSD, he could charge whatever he wanted, until another vendor came along and charged a little less. Then it becomes a competition of price vs quality. The guy who has the higher quality may or may not have the stock to keep up with the demand. And when that guy sells out, guess what? Whoever wants LSD, and wants it now, is going to go with the last man standing, who can charge whatever he wants.
If you can find it in your area, I encourage you to share the love on the road. Try what you seem to be criticizing.. stick some paper in those envelopes and ship them around the globe. Learn from your mistakes. I think you are criticizing something you don't fully understand here, man. Sorry.
I presume you're talking to N1ghtmare here, right? ???
yes, I hit the wrong quote button.. lol
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Its crazy to think one little square of paper can cost so much but then again the price of must popular drunks like Weed and Cocaine has gone through the roof as well. the UK market is quite fairly priced I think have paid what I thought was a reasonable price on the street and what I got was not Acid probably D.O.B was shit 2 tabs did Fuck all, bought 5 of here and 1 had me bouncing off the walls still ended up doing 3 but that's besides the point.
I honestly think prices on Acid are pretty darn good shame you have to order from EU really need a good reliable vendor for these if I could get my hands on a bottle of acid then I'd gladly step up to take the crown as the UK game is very weak right now.
Check out my page guys I'm a top seller :)
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You can't put a price on freedom.
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
We have had enough.
I like how you try to speak for ALL of us LSD buyers here on the Road :P It's cute.
I am sorry n1ghtmare but those "legit" dealers who you buy street LSD from for cheap probably aren't as honest as they claim.. I can't say for certain but I thought that I have dosed on LSD many times but after discovering SR and seeing the real prices of LSD it made me realize that what I tried probably was not LSD.
Unless you have a kit and you can swear that you've tested it and it came back positive for acid than I would be willing to bet money that it was really some other kind of chemical. You go to a show and you buy blotters or even get them from someone you know, they will tell you its lsd but odds are they don't know any better the same way people sell bath salts as if it were true molly.
I would bet money that 90% of dealers selling lsd are not really selling lsd. And the market reflects my statement also. If your getting 10$ hits then its most likely 25 nbome or something like that..
I wish it were different because I would love to try some real acid.
90% ??? that's quite a bit of skepticism! I've bought from 5 LSD vendors so far and have been sold LSD every single time. DOx and NBOMe are quite distinctive, in my experience, to LSD. Check my sig for the LSD Avengers forum thread and pick a more or less legitimate sounding vendor in the very first post and drop a few bitcoin on real LSD, man. :D
I've been toying with NOMe's a bit recently, but they're much harder on the body than LSD is and i'm pretty sure i'm done with the NBOMe series. L is top shelf material by a LONG shot.
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Seriously - if acid were $50 bucks a hit, it would still be worth it if you had an amazing experience. It lasts forever, is extremely strong (in my opinion overbearing), and is an experience. I think it's a very reasonable price for such a high. Think about cocaine - you have to pay at least 100 bucks for a night of fun. Compare that to acid.
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I have been quoted a price for 1 gram of crystal at ~ 25,000 USD. Granted, this quote is before I have established any sort of buyer-seller relationship with the seller. From what I have gleamed, there is not a gargantuan profit to be gained in the game of L. Also, the claims that good L can be had for 50 dollars a ten strip is certainly no lie. Many moons, or 3 years, ago I could acquire single drops at ~ 150 mics for 7 USD. 10 drops was ~ 50 USD. This was also available diluted at ~ 75 mics for 5 USD per drop or 40 USD per 10 drops. Many people will claim that L has gone up in prices exponentially since the 90's, but I find this is not the case. I base my estimate of the mic dosage of this liquid after a recent experience with a Canadian sisters L. 6 hits of this liquid had me, on one occasion, floating in a miraculous sea of color despite being in a pitch black room. I feel that this Canadian vendors L would require 12-15 hits to provide this experience.
However, I think that the purchasing prices for L on this site are not too outrageous. There are many vendors that supply shitty/bunk L at outlandish prices, but the good L vendors (see the L mafia page) provide a consistently high quality product at a generous price considering the available shitty L and the prices it goes for.
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I couldn't tell you how many dicks I've sucked to gain my LSD connect.
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I couldn't tell you how many dicks I've sucked to gain my LSD connect.
I couldn't tell you how many trips it took before I could manage to suck my OWN dick...lotta trips
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
We have had enough.
I like how you try to speak for ALL of us LSD buyers here on the Road :P It's cute.
I am sorry n1ghtmare but those "legit" dealers who you buy street LSD from for cheap probably aren't as honest as they claim.. I can't say for certain but I thought that I have dosed on LSD many times but after discovering SR and seeing the real prices of LSD it made me realize that what I tried probably was not LSD.
Unless you have a kit and you can swear that you've tested it and it came back positive for acid than I would be willing to bet money that it was really some other kind of chemical. You go to a show and you buy blotters or even get them from someone you know, they will tell you its lsd but odds are they don't know any better the same way people sell bath salts as if it were true molly.
I would bet money that 90% of dealers selling lsd are not really selling lsd. And the market reflects my statement also. If your getting 10$ hits then its most likely 25 nbome or something like that..
I wish it were different because I would love to try some real acid.
90% ??? that's quite a bit of skepticism! I've bought from 5 LSD vendors so far and have been sold LSD every single time. DOx and NBOMe are quite distinctive, in my experience, to LSD. Check my sig for the LSD Avengers forum thread and pick a more or less legitimate sounding vendor in the very first post and drop a few bitcoin on real LSD, man. :D
I've been toying with NOMe's a bit recently, but they're much harder on the body than LSD is and i'm pretty sure i'm done with the NBOMe series. L is top shelf material by a LONG shot.
Yea I'm not a fan of em either....waaaaay harder on the body. Although...I have learned that the quality of your nbome, that is to say how well it's synthesized or how "clean" it is, is a factor. There are a lot of RCs made in China and Korea as well as RCs made in Europe. Apparently, RCs like 25i-nbome, that are made in China and Korea are not as clean and have way more body load and tend to make people sick feeling. The European RCs tend to be cleaner and don't have the same unpleasant affects. I can't be 100%, but since this is true with many substances, I don't see why it isn't a factor with nbomes.
I've done a little 25i (about 500ug) on the tail end of an LSD trip aaaaaand it wasn't too bad at all.
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
We have had enough.
For a long time have we been members here, and for a long time have we had to endure the terribly high prices the vendors force upon us. And by "us" I mean the intellectually burdened psychonauts around the world who have no access to LSD locally and will never be able to get it without the help of Silk Road or other similar online markets. I, however, would like to address this problem particularly on Silk Road due to it being the most well known and well moderated of them all.
"So buy other psychedelics" you say. Well, my dear friend, unfortunately, in the country where we reside nothing more than a slip of blotter paper would be able to get past customs (yes, we've tried other variants), and other drugs that may be put on a blotter will never give us the experience we are looking for.
"But LSD is hard to produce/ship/market/etc" you say. Well, my good man, street prices for LSD vary from 1$ (standard 50mcg - 80mcg) to 10$ (250mcg - >300mcg pre-ban quality stuff) and sheet prices range from $100 to $500 (talking about legit dealers here, not rip off artists) depending on blotter strength and the values of the person selling them (as psychonauts will never charge a high price to fellow psychonauts). Here I see prices of over $1000 for a sheet of lowest quality LSD, which is more than outrageous. So, since it's us who will pay for the shipping, how much can a vendor possibly overcharge for putting a slip of paper in an envelope and going to a post office? And don't even think of giving me the SR tax excuse.
We the psychonauts are faced with the terrible problem of having to pay huge amounts of money for miniscule amounts of LSD that is most likely half as dosed as the vendor claims it to be, could be not LSD at all (which puts our lives at risk) and possibly not even receive it in the end. LSD production is on the rise, and LSD consumption is firmly climbing to the pre-ban rates and our patience is plummeting through the ground. Enough of this monopoly.
Just because this isn't a legal market doesn't mean we aren't entitled to what we pay for. And we believe that Silk Road was founded on the principles of free market. Silk Road is supposed to be the freest of them all.
That is why from this point onward we are boycotting any LSD that is sold for a price of higher than $0,05 (that's 5 cents) per mcg. That is more than double the price of street vendors, more than enough to cover any costs and leave you a profit, dear vendor.
Peace & Love,
Psychonauts from around the world.
Translation from the Limetta Stone -
Dear Silk Road and Silk Road Users and anyone who can be bothered to read this
I am here demonstrating how I don't really understand how drug economics work. I am also most likely a hippie that believes LSD is a gift from nature which makes me a lil' bit silly.
Peace and Love (more signs of smelly hippies)
Nightmare
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N1ghtmare, I appreciate you're gusto. I think in essence your idea is good, but your argument is a bit disorganized.
When I first got on SR, about 9 months ago, I was appalled by the prices. It is ridiculous to think that there are people out there trying to sell LSD for $20 a tab, I thought to myself. Within a few weeks I was on the forums typing basically the same thing you're saying. My reasoning was a little different and a bit more radical, but I didn't let up for over a month. I would come on a couple times a week and blast a handful of threads with ALL CAPS TYPING, BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!!!! Some people agreed...a lot of people didn't. In the end I didn't succeed in rallying a boycott or lowering prices. But I did draw a lot of attention to an issue that wasn't getting talked about much...which was scammers and illegitimate sellers in the LSD market. The crux of my argument was no so much that prices were too high, but that all the bogus vendors, scammers and the like....all who were unknowingly or knowingly selling fake LSD for super high prices....were the ones that were causing all the problems in the LSD market.
Anyways, things have changed a lot since then. There are still a lot of vendors who sell 20 different items, LSD being one of them, and they probably don't care so much about legitimacy or quality. These vendors will most likely never go away. But we also have 4 or 5 solid, legit vendors who pretty much only sell LSD, they care about their product and they care about their customers. Most of them charge a very reasonable price but a couple are a bit overpriced. The important thing is that we are getting what we pay for....regardless of price.
I have been buying LSD for over a decade....obviously most of it on the street. Ten years ago I could get a sheet of some REALLY GOOD west coast white fluff, WoW, 150ug tabs for $250. Over time prices went up. About 3 years ago you could expect to pay at least $500 for a sheet of the same quality stuff. So in 10 years, prices have doubled. If you look at prices for gas, or groceries or beer....they have all gone up as well. Gas has more than doubled in 10 years. So we can't really complain too much. Concurrently....I have also purchased sheets that turned out to be really weak or totally bunk. That's 300-500 down the drain. Personally, I'd pay a premium on LSD to know that what I'm getting is real LSD....and in fact I do!
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
"But LSD is hard to produce/ship/market/etc" you say. Well, my good man, street prices for LSD vary from 1$ (standard 50mcg - 80mcg) to 10$ (250mcg - >300mcg pre-ban quality stuff)
24th october 1968 LSD became illegal in the USA. please tell me exactly when did you take 'pre ban quality stuff?'
BS if you ask me.
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Dear Silk Road LSD vendors,
"But LSD is hard to produce/ship/market/etc" you say. Well, my good man, street prices for LSD vary from 1$ (standard 50mcg - 80mcg) to 10$ (250mcg - >300mcg pre-ban quality stuff)
24th october 1968 LSD became illegal in the USA. please tell me exactly when did you take 'pre ban quality stuff?'
BS if you ask me.
Lol that's called being a Wana-be hippie. :P
-
There ya go! Silk Road IS a free market - vendors are free to charge what they like, and they do so because people are willing to pay the asking price. It goes back to the basic laws of supply and demand - there is a huge demand for good LSD and very little supply here. If ten LSD vendors arrived on the scene tomorrow and started selling top quality LSD at half the price of their competitors, the competitors would either have to drop their prices to match the new vendor's, or stop selling LSD altogether if it became unprofitable for them to sell it at such a low price.
I don't think that word "free" means what you think it means here. It's not free as in beer or "gratis". It's free as in you have free choice to choose whoever you want. Which includes the choice to not buy (as you seem to be doing). But also free for everyone else to decide if they want to buy. Or even whether or not they're going to be dictated to by someone who doesn't know the first thing about them as to whom they're "allowed" to buy from or not.
You two completely missed the point, my dear friends.
I never denied your right to buy LSD for those prices. Go ahead, by all means, it's your money.
What I am saying is that the prices that are set in this market are unjustly high. And I'm not saying this because I happened to buy LSD cheaper at some party once. The reason I have started this topic is that I was able to visit a place which had excellent quality LSD (and I am 100% sure it is LSD) for the prices stated above. But, alas, I do not live there, and do not have access to it.
I am almost completely sure, however, that the vendors here have at least partial access to that supply, as most of the world's LSD is made in a limited number of places.
And I'm not saying all vendors are that way. I have no doubts in great vendors like Del.Ellis and VitaCat, who actually provide the quality they claim to provide for the more or less reasonable price.
What I am saying, is that by buying LSD at such unreasonable prices we allow those prices to exist. If we stop buying - they will be forced to lower their prices.
I think you need to read my post again N1ghtmare link. I explained to you the concept of supply and demand, and the exact reason for the prices of LSD here. The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective. Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices.
If enough people judged the prices to be too high and didn't buy the product, then the prices would likely drop as vendors attempt to recapture their market share and clear their product. I think this is what you're getting at with your 'boycott' idea, but such a method would be impossible to implement in a free market such as this, mainly because a boycott requires a sufficient number of people to stop buying a certain product.
As the majority of buyers are obviously happy enough with the prices they're paying (as is evident by the fact that they continue to pay them), a 'boycott' would be enacted mainly by the people that are not happy to pay the prices currently being advertised, making it unlikely that they're purchasing LSD on Silk Road in the first place specifically because they're not willing to pay SR prices.
Thus it stands to reason that the majority of the people boycotting the product will be people who aren't actually buying the product in the first place, therefore having little to no impact on the vendor's sales; hence no effect on the vendor's prices.
- grahamgreene
So... maybe this guy "N1ghtmare" is a bit of a retard, but LSD on here is pretty damn expensive. My dealer quit, and now I have to pay double here. And I have to waste my time trying to figure out who is going to send me expensive paper. I would not mind paying a bit of a premium if I were certain that I would actually get what I'd paid for. Ratings seem to be no obstacle in screwing you over.
I'm sort of tired of these sorts of economics 1001 arguments e.g. from "Grahamgreene": basically that, if your seller is kicking you in the balls with high prices that that's AOK because it's a free market. These arguments are usually made by people who've maybe watched some Ron Paul on YouTube or something. The "free market" does not have a fixed, agreed-upon definition. The real question is whether the Silk Road is a "competitive market" or whether there is "perfect competition" -- And I think it's a pretty clear negative in both cases. It's at best a shady oligopoly. The problem is that you never know whether you're going to get what you paid for. Through various accounts, I've ordered from about 4 different sellers, and I don't think I've ever got the advertised amounts -- sometimes as low as 1/4 of what was advertised. All of these sellers had ratings of over 95.
So let's look at Graham's post:
>"The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective."
Yeah no shit. Here's another one "The bath is hot to you because heat is subjective."
>"Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices."
Graham seems to think that prices are not "unjustly high" if someone is willing to pay them. So if you were starving and I sold you a burger for $1000, that would not be unjust.
Could someone please explain to me how what you think a free market is differs from "you can do anything, including kick people in the balls."?
"Hope2come": You're pretty naive if you think that anyone selling a hit of acid for under $10 must have given you something else. I can hear all the suppliers laughing at you softly. Acid is relatively expensive in my country, and I used to pay $100 for 1500ug.
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So... maybe this guy "N1ghtmare" is a bit of a retard, but LSD on here is pretty damn expensive. My dealer quit, and now I have to pay double here. And I have to waste my time trying to figure out who is going to send me expensive paper. I would not mind paying a bit of a premium if I were certain that I would actually get what I'd paid for. Ratings seem to be no obstacle in screwing you over.
I'm sort of tired of these sorts of economics 1001 arguments e.g. from "Grahamgreene": basically that, if your seller is kicking you in the balls with high prices that that's AOK because it's a free market. These arguments are usually made by people who've maybe watched some Ron Paul on YouTube or something.
*Sigh* I did not say "if your seller is kicking you in the balls with high prices that that's AOK because it's a free market"; I said that because it is a free market, vendors are free to charge whatever they want for their product. If the buyer chooses to pay the price being charged, it is because they value the product more than they value the money it costs or the Bitcoin that they're paying for it. You have a choice whether to buy the product or not. If you have a choice of getting kicked in the balls or not, I'm 99% sure most reasonable men would choose the latter.
To sum that up: If you choose to "get kicked in the balls" with prices, that's entirely up to you - it is a decision that is entirely yours to make. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the products offered here. It is up to the buyer to decide whether to buy the product or not. They don't NEED the LSD. They WANT it, and they pay the prices asked for it. If enough LSD buyers chose not to do so, the prices would most likely drop as a result of reduced demand on the available supply.
The "free market" does not have a fixed, agreed-upon definition. The real question is whether the Silk Road is a "competitive market" or whether there is "perfect competition" -- And I think it's a pretty clear negative in both cases. It's at best a shady oligopoly. The problem is that you never know whether you're going to get what you paid for. Through various accounts, I've ordered from about 4 different sellers, and I don't think I've ever got the advertised amounts -- sometimes as low as 1/4 of what was advertised. All of these sellers had ratings of over 95.
The "free market" DOES have a fixed, agreed-upon definition (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp#axzz287EILD8w):
"A market economy based on supply and demand with little or no government control. A completely free market is an idealized form of a market economy where buyers and sellers are allowed to transact freely (i.e. buy/sell/trade) based on a mutual agreement on price without state intervention in the form of taxes, subsidies or regulation.
Investopedia explains 'Free Market':
In simple terms, a free market is a summary term for an array of exchanges that take place in society. Each exchange is a voluntary agreement between two parties who trade in the form of goods and services. In reality, this is the extent to which a free market exists since there will always be government intervention in the form of taxes, price controls and restrictions that prevent new competitors from entering a market. Just like supply-side economics, free market is a term used to describe a political or ideological viewpoint on policy and is not a field within economics."
The fact that there is NO "government intervention in the form of taxes, price controls and restrictions that prevent new competitors from entering a market" means that yes, this is the dictionary definition of a free market.
I'm not entirely sure where you studied economics but you should probably look into some way of getting refunded for the substandard schooling you received. ???
So let's look at Graham's post:
>"The prices are 'unreasonable' to you, because value is subjective."
Yeah no shit. Here's another one "The bath is hot to you because heat is subjective."
Mmm, no. Heat is not subjective, it is relative. Everyone knows that a hot bath is hot, otherwise it wouldn't be a "hot bath". VALUE, on the other hand, differs from person to person based on how they view it. "Relative" is considered in relation to something else; whereas "subjective" pertains to, or is characteristic of, an individual - it is personal. The bath is hot to you depending on the heat of the water relative to both the surrounding ambient temperature and the temperature of your own body.
If, for example, the ambient temperature is 15 degrees Celsius, you've developed hypothermia from being in the pool too long so your body is 32 degrees Celsius and the water is a regular bath temperature of 39 degrees Celsius, then yes, the water will feel hot to you. However, if the ambient temperature is 40 degrees Celsius, you've developed hyperthermia from heatstroke so your body is 38 degrees Celsius and the water has cooled so it is 32 degrees Celsius, the water will feel cool to you. Why? Because heat is relative. :)
It is, of course, relative based on subjective factors such as whether the person has been outside or inside etc.; 'factors' are things that either influence or make up 'the whole', making it what? Exaaaactly - relative based on subjective factors.
Value is subjective. If I pick up a pair of fashionable shoes that I like the look of, but see that they cost $500 and don't buy them because of that it is because I do not place $500 worth of value on them. However, if my fashionista friend (who earns the same as me, taking circumstantial relativity out of the question) sees that same pair, glances at the price, and pays $500 for them it is because he deems the benefits of spending $500 on those shoes outweighs the benefits of having $500 in his pocket. Quite simply he values the shoes more than he values the $500.
>"Prices are not 'unjustly high'. The prices are what they are because buyers are willing to pay those prices."
Graham seems to think that prices are not "unjustly high" if someone is willing to pay them. So if you were starving and I sold you a burger for $1000, that would not be unjust.
Whilst your example brings "moral justice" into the equation, which is not what I am talking about in the quote above, if I were starving I would place more value on that burger than I would the $1000, as the $1000 would be worth nothing to me were I to die from starvation. I may consider it 'morally unjust' for you to charge me so much for the burger, but morality is entirely subjective. You, being the seller of the burger, would obviously not be thinking it morally unjust if you were charging so much to a starving man.
What I actually stated is that "prices are not 'unjustly high'" as "justice" does not come into the equation, moral or otherwise; the simple fact of the matter is that the prices are what they are because people pay them. It's the basic economic principle of supply and demand.
Could someone please explain to me how what you think a free market is differs from "you can do anything, including kick people in the balls."?
I answered this above in my first paragraph in this post between the words "*Sigh*" and "supply." To save me repeating myself, please refer to that paragraph for the explanation you're looking for.
If you have any more questions or criticisms I'll be delighted to answer and rebut them.
- grahamgreene
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So basically N1ghtmare says something like "The prices on SR are too fucking high -- way higher than the street price. I don't like it."
To which you say "Prices are high cuz free market."
It's not as if the fact that people can charge whatever they want is in dispute, it's whether the prices are fair. Excused me if I assumed that you were writing something that was relevant to the discussion. However, N1ghtmare clearly has no idea what a free market is...
Free markets do not have an agreed-upon definition. To quote that most venerable encyclopedia, Wikipedia:
"The meaning of "free market" has varied over time and between economists, the ambiguous term "free" facilitating a diversity of uses. To illustrate the ambiguity: classical economists such as Adam Smith believed that an economy should be free of monopoly rents, while proponents of laissez faire believe that people should be free to form monopolies. In this article "free market" is largely identified with laissez faire, and competitive markets, though alternative senses are discussed in this section and in criticism. The identification of the "free market" with "laissez faire" was notably used in the 1962 Capitalism and Freedom, by economist Milton Friedman, which is credited with popularizing this usage"
There are common features to many definitions of a "free market", for instance the absence of coercion -- that every transaction is voluntary. But most definitions of a free market have a "transparency" assumption: That is, that you know what you're getting. But many more liberal definitions do not. SR is certainly not a transparent market, as it's often difficult or infeasible to test what you're getting. Another assumption common to many, but not all free market conceptions is the assumption of "low barriers to entry". This is also not a feature of SR.
I think that this point is largely irrelevant. I just could not help but rebut what you said... The free market encompasses many undesirable scenarios, such as a monopoly. A competitive market would be great, but SR certainly isn't one.
>"Whilst your example brings "moral justice" into the equation, which is not what I am talking about in the quote above, if I were starving I would place more value on that burger than I would the $1000, as the $1000 would be worth nothing to me were I to die from starvation. I may consider it 'morally unjust' for you to charge me so much for the burger, but morality is entirely subjective. You, being the seller of the burger, would obviously not be thinking it morally unjust if you were charging so much to a starving man.
What I actually stated is that "prices are not 'unjustly high'" as "justice" does not come into the equation, moral or otherwise; the simple fact of the matter is that the prices are what they are because people pay them. It's the basic economic principle of supply and demand."
See, that doesn't actually make any sense to me. You'll have to clarify how moral justice is irrelevant. The way I see it, the prices are what they are because there is very little competitive, and sellers charge whatever they can get people to pay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be saying something like "Prices are not unjustly high. Moral justice is irrelevant because prices are high because people are willing to pay high prices." I really don't see any other interpretation.
Pricing in SR resembles monopoly pricing, not competitive pricing: Sellers charge what will maximize profit. Prices are high because sellers attempt to maximize profit. Is this what you're saying is just? Let's end this conversation. I don't think it's productive...
Frankly though, the thing that most gets under my skin is false advertising of dosage. I would not mind paying high prices if I actually knew what I was getting, but it doesn't seem to matter how much you pay, you'll get less than what is advertised... I'm banking on 3Jane though. 14th 9EDT everyone! Get ready!
-
::)
I've only used the "Roll Eyes" smiley ONCE before in my 626 (now 627) posts; that should give you an idea as to how much I'm rolling my eyes at your gross misunderstanding of virtually every single point that I made in my previous posts.
I'm sorry but it's incredibly aggravating attempting to debate the facts of an agorism based free marketplace when the person I'm conversing with has absolutely no grasp of agorism, no grasp of economic theory and not a notion of what a 'free market' is.
Nevertheless, in the hope that you may yet learn something, I digress...
So basically N1ghtmare says something like "The prices on SR are too fucking high -- way higher than the street price. I don't like it."
To which you say "Prices are high cuz free market."
It's not as if the fact that people can charge whatever they want is in dispute, it's whether the prices are fair. Excused me if I assumed that you were writing something that was relevant to the discussion. However, N1ghtmare clearly has no idea what a free market is...
Don't be absurd.
a) That's not what I said at all; please refer to my two previous posts in this thread and b) you can't condense everything that I did say into "Prices are high cuz free market." If I said something to that effect in response to N1ghtmare's statement, please do quote it. Note also that I would never say "cuz".
However, if you wish to condense my previous two posts into the above, my broad response which explained WHY the prices are what they are had NOTHING to do with whether they are fair or not. It had EVERYTHING to do with explaining the reasons behind the high prices, namely the fact that Silk Road is an agorism based free market, which itself is based upon the (so far for you, incomprehensible) principle of supply and demand.
Free markets do not have an agreed-upon definition. To quote that most venerable encyclopedia, Wikipedia:
"The meaning of "free market" has varied over time and between economists, the ambiguous term "free" facilitating a diversity of uses. To illustrate the ambiguity: classical economists such as Adam Smith believed that an economy should be free of monopoly rents, while proponents of laissez faire believe that people should be free to form monopolies. In this article "free market" is largely identified with laissez faire, and competitive markets, though alternative senses are discussed in this section and in criticism. The identification of the "free market" with "laissez faire" was notably used in the 1962 Capitalism and Freedom, by economist Milton Friedman, which is credited with popularizing this usage"
Once again I appeal to you to end the absurdity of your statements, or at least research the points you are trying to make. I can say with absolute certainty that you understand very little of what you read in the above Wikipedia quote.
'Free market' as defined by Collins Dictionary (http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/free-market):
noun
an economic system that allows supply and demand to regulate prices, wages, etc, rather than government policy
(as modifier) ⇒ a free-market economy
Usage example:
"The idea was that increased competition would breed efficiency and create a natural free market incentive to keep prices down."
OTTAWA SUN (2003)
'Free market' as defined by dictionary.reference.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free+market):
free market
noun
an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies.
As you can see from the above dictionary definitions, 'free market' is very clearly defined indeed and there is no ambiguity which could lead one to become confused.
There are common features to many definitions of a "free market", for instance the absence of coercion -- that every transaction is voluntary. But most definitions of a free market have a "transparency" assumption: That is, that you know what you're getting. But many more liberal definitions do not. SR is certainly not a transparent market, as it's often difficult or infeasible to test what you're getting. Another assumption common to many, but not all free market conceptions is the assumption of "low barriers to entry". This is also not a feature of SR.
I think that this point is largely irrelevant. I just could not help but rebut what you said... The free market encompasses many undesirable scenarios, such as a monopoly. A competitive market would be great, but SR certainly isn't one.
Seeing as your fond of Wikipedia, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on market transparency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(market)):
In economics, a market is transparent if much is known by many about:
What products, services or capital assets are available. [Applies to Silk Road? Yes.]
What price. [Applies to Silk Road? Yes.]
Where. [Applies to Silk Road? Yes.]
There are two types of price transparency:
1) I know what price will be charged to me, and
2) I know what price will be charged to you.
The two types of price transparency have different implications for differential pricing.
A high degree of market transparency can result in disintermediation due to the buyer's increased knowledge of supply pricing.
Transparency is important since it is one of the theoretical conditions required for a free market to be efficient.
Price transparency can, however, lead to higher prices, if it makes sellers reluctant to give steep discounts to certain buyers, or if it facilitates collusion.
A transparent market has nothing to do with being able to "test what you're getting". It has everything to do with knowing what products are available, their price and where they are available from. All three of which apply to Silk Road.
In order to know what you're getting, you read the reviews that others have left concerning the product you're interested in, thereby satisfying your own personal definition of transparency (which does not apply to transparency in an economic sense) - " That is, that you know what you're getting."
On the issue of coercion: No vendor has been forced by Silk Road to hawk their wares here, ergo no coercion.
Silk Road also has incredibly low "barriers to entry" for the type of marketplace it is - mainly a drug-centric marketplace. $150 USD - that is literally all it takes to become a vendor. If you were selling drugs and you considered that a high barrier to entry, then you would have be one of the most incompetent purveyor of narcotics that the world has ever seen. Using my own experience as a reference point, when I used to sell weed in the real world I averaged $500 a day profit. A once off barrier to entry cost of $150, being 30% of one single day's profit, is certainly a low barrier indeed. That, however, is subjective so I'll make it relative:
Even if $150 were an entire week's profit, it would still an incredibly low barrier to entry to a free market such as this, as you would easily make your $150 back because you are globalising your customer base. Instead of selling to 5 people, you now have the opportunity to (safely) sell to 500,000 or perhaps eventually 5,000,000+ people. Who knows, maybe that will eventually turn into billions.
Quite a low barrier of entry for such a market, no?
The main reason that the $150 charge exists is in order to deter scammers, thereby simply making that barrier a natural cost of doing business - something which actually benefits all vendors as it keeps the scammers to a minimum, thus giving people more confidence in the marketplace as a whole.
So there you have it - Silk Road IS a free market after all. Glad we've cleared that one up for you!
>"Whilst your example brings "moral justice" into the equation, which is not what I am talking about in the quote above, if I were starving I would place more value on that burger than I would the $1000, as the $1000 would be worth nothing to me were I to die from starvation. I may consider it 'morally unjust' for you to charge me so much for the burger, but morality is entirely subjective. You, being the seller of the burger, would obviously not be thinking it morally unjust if you were charging so much to a starving man.
What I actually stated is that "prices are not 'unjustly high'" as "justice" does not come into the equation, moral or otherwise; the simple fact of the matter is that the prices are what they are because people pay them. It's the basic economic principle of supply and demand."
See, that doesn't actually make any sense to me. You'll have to clarify how moral justice is irrelevant. The way I see it, the prices are what they are because there is very little competitive, and sellers charge whatever they can get people to pay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be saying something like "Prices are not unjustly high. Moral justice is irrelevant because prices are high because people are willing to pay high prices." I really don't see any other interpretation.
I didn't state that moral justice is irrelevant, I stated that it does not come into the equation where pricing is concerned. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
As for "The way I see it, the prices are what they are because there is very little competitive [sic], and sellers charge whatever they can get people to pay" - YES!! THANK YOU!! You FINALLY seem to understand the concept of a free market and you also seem to grasp the reason that prices are high! Good job, Watson!
Alas, I celebrate too soon! *sigh*
I stated that prices are what they are because people pay them. Justice, moral or otherwise, does not come into the equation as the market is defined by the basic economic principle of supply and demand. The prices ARE higher than they would otherwise be (if there were more competition, for example) because there is a limited supply, due to few vendors supplying the product in question. The prices REMAIN high because buyers are willing to pay those prices. I literally cannot make it any more simple for you than that. If you still don't understand then re-read this post in its entirety, re-read my previous two posts in this thread in their entirety and then go read a book on economics. You need to have, at the very least, a basic understanding of something before you attempt to debate the finer points of it, let alone the basic foundations. I've explained the reasons that prices are what they are numerous times - if you still don't get it there is literally no more I can do to help you understand.
Pricing in SR resembles monopoly pricing, not competitive pricing: Sellers charge what will maximize profit. Prices are high because sellers attempt to maximize profit. Is this what you're saying is just? Let's end this conversation. I don't think it's productive...
Of course sellers charge what will maximise profit - it's a free market!!! They want to make money and they are free to do that in whatever way they wish. If their products are not selling (because of "too high" prices or an increase in supply / drop in the demand) then they will lower their prices. If it were a charity with no desire for a profit margin selling LSD here then I'm sure you would find the prices more to your liking.
This conversation is actually entirely productive, contrary to your thought about it (though you're completely entitled to think otherwise, of course; that's freedom for you) - if you take the time to read the explanations I have provided you might actually learn something! :o You may even eventually come to understand how a free market works!
Frankly though, the thing that most gets under my skin is false advertising of dosage. I would not mind paying high prices if I actually knew what I was getting, but it doesn't seem to matter how much you pay, you'll get less than what is advertised... I'm banking on 3Jane though. 14th 9EDT everyone! Get ready!
I cannot comment on 'false advertising' as anything I have ever ordered from Silk Road has been exactly as advertised. Perhaps you simply need to do your due diligence before you purchase your next item, and I mean that in the nicest way possible. Research your vendor thoroughly on the forums, check through their feedback on a number of different items, not just the one you're looking to purchase and only do business with established, reputable vendors.
- grahamgreene
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Haven't read the thread, or even most of OPs post... but it kind of reads as;
"I'm egotistical enough to think I can speak for a large group of people so hear my feeble cries and give me a better deal on LSD because I don't like your prices."
-
Translation from the Limetta Stone -
Dear Silk Road and Silk Road Users and anyone who can be bothered to read this
I am here demonstrating how I don't really understand how drug economics work. I am also most likely a hippie that believes LSD is a gift from nature which makes me a lil' bit silly.
Peace and Love (more signs of smelly hippies)
Nightmare
Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
Dont even try and make snide remarks about LSD taking hippys when you sell the most disgusting synthetic crap that has no research done or long term affects on the harm that these new age drugs can be doing.
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
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Haven't read the thread, or even most of OPs post... but it kind of reads as;
"I'm egotistical enough to think I can speak for a large group of people so hear my feeble cries and give me a better deal on LSD because I don't like your prices."
You and a couple of others are the type of dick riders that have no clue.
Its kind of like someone going upto Mcdonalds and saying "hey your prices are too high and we want a change" then you come along and say "who said we want lower prices? this man doesnt speak for all of us, i like my prices through the roof" it just doesnt make sense.
Why are buyers keen to pay well overpriced and not give 2 shits about it? Or are even willing to shoot down the ones with enough balls to confront the problem.
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Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
[SNIP]
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
Please read my 3 previous posts in this thread to understand how a free market works.
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Haven't read the thread, or even most of OPs post... but it kind of reads as;
"I'm egotistical enough to think I can speak for a large group of people so hear my feeble cries and give me a better deal on LSD because I don't like your prices."
You and a couple of others are the type of dick riders that have no clue.
Its kind of like someone going upto Mcdonalds and saying "hey your prices are too high and we want a change" then you come along and say "who said we want lower prices? this man doesnt speak for all of us, i like my prices through the roof" it just doesnt make sense.
Why are buyers keen to pay well overpriced and not give 2 shits about it? Or are even willing to shoot down the ones with enough balls to confront the problem.
Sellers choose the price that moves their product at the rate they're best able to maintain. That's how pricing works. A vendor with greater supply(and thus lower costs) will price their products at a lower price. I'm not dick riding, friend. I'm just opposed to someone speaking for me on a subject that I don't have a concrete opinion on. I'm not an LSD aficionado, nor even a user just yet. All the same, I do not want some no-post upstart trying to speak for me. I'm not a customer to any LSD vendor and I'm not likely to be in the future, but I still don't want someone speaking on my behalf, even if it is on a subject of which I know nothing. ESPECIALLY on a subject of which I know nothing, in fact. If I was knowledgeable, I would acquiesce on the subject if the opinion was one I shared... but as I have no opinion, I find it the height of impropriety to let someone else speak for me. :)
So, I stand by my paraphrased version. To me, it looks like OP is just whining because he can't afford as much LSD as he would like.
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Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
[SNIP]
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
Please read my 3 previous posts in this thread to understand how a free market works.
We all know how a free market works here buddy, yes we have the choice to buy or not to buy, this is about vendors marking there prices through the roof and basically taking advantage of us customers, you realize the drug trade in general is a free market? You have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass.
The whole point of this thread has gone over your head and again what team are you playing for? Why encourage vendors to take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road, LSD is obviously not your drug of choice as you seem to be clueless about the 'real value' of bulk lsd and the responsibility that selling LSD brings in general, unless you are just a materialistic money hungry grub (most vendors on SR probably are)
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Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
[SNIP]
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
Please read my 3 previous posts in this thread to understand how a free market works.
We all know how a free market works here buddy, yes we have the choice to buy or not to buy, this is about vendors marking there prices through the roof and basically taking advantage of us customers, you realize the drug trade in general is a free market? You have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass.
The whole point of this thread has gone over your head and again what team are you playing for? Why encourage vendors to take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road, LSD is obviously not your drug of choice as you seem to be clueless about the 'real value' of bulk lsd and the responsibility that selling LSD brings in general, unless you are just a materialistic money hungry grub (most vendors on SR probably are)
Hey OP, you really shouldn't be speaking for other people. :)
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Haven't read the thread, or even most of OPs post... but it kind of reads as;
"I'm egotistical enough to think I can speak for a large group of people so hear my feeble cries and give me a better deal on LSD because I don't like your prices."
You and a couple of others are the type of dick riders that have no clue.
Its kind of like someone going upto Mcdonalds and saying "hey your prices are too high and we want a change" then you come along and say "who said we want lower prices? this man doesnt speak for all of us, i like my prices through the roof" it just doesnt make sense.
Why are buyers keen to pay well overpriced and not give 2 shits about it? Or are even willing to shoot down the ones with enough balls to confront the problem.
Sellers choose the price that moves their product at the rate they're best able to maintain. That's how pricing works. A vendor with greater supply(and thus lower costs) will price their products at a lower price. I'm not dick riding, friend. I'm just opposed to someone speaking for me on a subject that I don't have a concrete opinion on. I'm not an LSD aficionado, nor even a user just yet. All the same, I do not want some no-post upstart trying to speak for me. I'm not a customer to any LSD vendor and I'm not likely to be in the future, but I still don't want someone speaking on my behalf, even if it is on a subject of which I know nothing. ESPECIALLY on a subject of which I know nothing, in fact. If I was knowledgeable, I would acquiesce on the subject if the opinion was one I shared... but as I have no opinion, I find it the height of impropriety to let someone else speak for me. :)
So, I stand by my paraphrased version. To me, it looks like OP is just whining because he can't afford as much LSD as he would like.
Its all good man, meant no offense, i just think us buyers need to come together and combat some of these prices on certain products, LSD prices on SR are hugely inflated from the actual vale, i have no problem at all paying the markup prices on SR for quality and service, but the LSD prices on here are just taking the piss.
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Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
[SNIP]
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
Please read my 3 previous posts in this thread to understand how a free market works.
We all know how a free market works here buddy, yes we have the choice to buy or not to buy, this is about vendors marking there prices through the roof and basically taking advantage of us customers, you realize the drug trade in general is a free market? You have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass.
The whole point of this thread has gone over your head and again what team are you playing for? Why encourage vendors to take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road, LSD is obviously not your drug of choice as you seem to be clueless about the 'real value' of bulk lsd and the responsibility that selling LSD brings in general, unless you are just a materialistic money hungry grub (most vendors on SR probably are)
Hey OP, you really shouldn't be speaking for other people. :)
Hey Graham, if i was OP why would i change account? What would be the point, that statement is almost as stupid as saying "you know what a free market means dont you" everytime someone questions the prices around here.
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Considering you know nothing about the history and culture of LSD im not sure why you felt the need to post, its a sad state when the original cooks and dealers were in the LSD game for spreading love and wisdom, these days its all about profit and the 'drug economy', true LSD pioneers would be rolling in there grave knowing people are trying to make every penny than can from such a product. But i guess thats the way the world is in 2012, bunch of materialistic twats.
[SNIP]
OP is right, we need a 'real' LSD vendor to pop up on the road and show these money hungry grubs what its all about, im not saying that profit is not welcomed in the LSD community, but have some common decency not to take advantage of the people who love this substance the most.
I will also add that alot of people are on the road because they have nowhere else to score or they can only get horrible quality wares, i hope vendors are not taking advantage because they know alot of people will almost pay anything to get there buzz on due to no connections in real life etc.
Please read my 3 previous posts in this thread to understand how a free market works.
We all know how a free market works here buddy, yes we have the choice to buy or not to buy, this is about vendors marking there prices through the roof and basically taking advantage of us customers, you realize the drug trade in general is a free market? You have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass.
The whole point of this thread has gone over your head and again what team are you playing for? Why encourage vendors to take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road, LSD is obviously not your drug of choice as you seem to be clueless about the 'real value' of bulk lsd and the responsibility that selling LSD brings in general, unless you are just a materialistic money hungry grub (most vendors on SR probably are)
Hey OP, you really shouldn't be speaking for other people. :)
Hey Graham, if i was OP why would i change account? What would be the point, that statement is almost as stupid as saying "you know what a free market means dont you" everytime someone questions the prices around here.
That was me actually, and I guess I'll say sorry for it. Your next reply, which was to me, cooled my sketchy-hunting jets. Yeah, prices might be a bit retarded... but I'm pretty sure that is all a matter of supply-issues. After all, anytime someone comes around talking about selling bulk LSD... it is just a scam. Except googleeyed, MAYBE... but he hasn't delivered anything, yet.
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true, the prices for acid on here are ridiculous, but what isnt? i'd say 80-90 % of the stuff on SR is overpriced. occasionally you will get a deal and usually that's only if you buy bulk.
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Hey Graham, if i was OP why would i change account? What would be the point, that statement is almost as stupid as saying "you know what a free market means dont you" everytime someone questions the prices around here.
Hi Swifty,
Please point out where I stated that you're the OP. You're just being a big ol' confused silly billy now. ;)
We all know how a free market works here buddy, yes we have the choice to buy or not to buy, this is about vendors marking there prices through the roof and basically taking advantage of us customers, you realize the drug trade in general is a free market? You have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass.
The whole point of this thread has gone over your head and again what team are you playing for? Why encourage vendors to take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road, LSD is obviously not your drug of choice as you seem to be clueless about the 'real value' of bulk lsd and the responsibility that selling LSD brings in general, unless you are just a materialistic money hungry grub (most vendors on SR probably are)
Firstly, I'm not your buddy, pal. Just thought we should clear that one up before we take this relationship to the next level.
Secondly, I'm glad you know that the drug trade in general is a free market, and that you "have the right to choose to buy that shitty 8ball from the corner if you want, or give it a pass", thereby making your tirade against my previous posts - posts where I provided explanations to some users complaining about prices and attempting to mount a boycott - absolutely ridiculous.
The point of the thread hasn't gone over my head at all - I explained to the OP why a boycott would not work, and I then explained to another poster how a free market works, and the reason for the prices being what they are. Again, I request that you read through my previous posts in the thread to see why the prices are what they are.
I'm not encouraging vendors to do anything - please quote where I encouraged vendors to "take advantage of the somewhat desperation of buyers on the road". You can't? Why's that? Because I didn't do what you're accusing me of? Too bad. :(
No, LSD is not my drug of choice. The drugs I use are alcohol when I'm socialising, caffeine when I'm working, ephedrine when I'm working out, Viagra when I've had too much 'socialising' and for the first time recently, one and a half Valium to calm my nerves on a very important day.
I am, however, well versed in the 'real value' of most things. The reason for this is that value, you see, is entirely subjective. You'll have to read my prior posts in this thread to get the explanation for that one as it's 5.37am and I'm going to hit the hay shortly. :)
As for being a "materialistic money hungry grub", you couldn't be more wrong. Money has absolutely no value to me. It's simply a means to experience new things. It comes and goes, and you can always make more of it. When something is not finite, it has no intrinsic value beyond the experience that it can provide the beholder.
If you have a problem with the prices, become a vendor and undercut your competitors. It's that simple. Why? Because it's a free market. :)
Also, I'm not a vendor on SR; I simply run a business from it. ;)
- grahamgreene
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How come LSD prices were much lower only a few months back?
Was there a recent LSD lab bust or something?
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How come LSD prices were much lower only a few months back?
Was there a recent LSD lab bust or something?
Bitcoin value dropped. When Bitcoins go down in value, it takes more of them. So for instance, if its $10 per BTC, then something that costs $100 is going to cost 10BTC right? So if the value of BTC goes to to $5 per BTC, it now that same $100 dollar item costs 20BTC.
BTC market is tricky. Bet not to sit on bitcoins for too long. There has been a lot of fluctuation going on...but mainly BTC has been steadily losing value. Mostly likely people are selling big chunks of it.
Best time to buy bitcoins is when you want to make a purchase and use them immediately. You can try to play Mr Wall Street and buy a bunch, obviously, when they are low. But you never know how much lower they go, so it's risky.
Anyways, hope that helped.
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IF you get LSD in my country (especially my city, although its the largest in the country), its a commercial dutch print at 10-15€ a hit.
So prices here are just fine...
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Hahaha, its all relative mate. I live in India, poverty stricken country as is it. I can buy a kilo of half decent, grown under the sun ganja (definately better than what you guys call schwag) for around 200$. But for acid, the street price is around 20-30$ a hit, i shit you fucking not. I have been supplying my friends for the last 2 months, at 10-15$ a hit, they have been losing their minds man. Its about the availability too right
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Heroin and ketamine also cheap in India I have heard. Along with high quality hash and cheap pharmaceuticals, I'm surprised there aren't more vendors operating from there. Recently, Jannis has dropped his prices for the 'Fat Freddy Cat' blotters. Sure they are highly dosed and accurate but the prices seemed too high and they didn't sell out immediately.
I have found UK sellers have started inflating their prices for MDMA. The Americans and Aussies are willing to pay more and have it shipped from a 'safe' country. They drive the prices up for UK MDMA. There are always people who want their drugs and will pay a premium. Whilst I would like to see it happen, it won't. Hell, Aussies pay 300 bucks for a gam of MDMA!
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Mate i havent ventured in the realm of ket,opium,heroin yet. But i have a friend who used to IV ket a lot, and he got me a small bottle once. I think it was 1000cc of maybe 500cc or something? I tried injecting 40cc or so (wont be doing that again, lol). The rest i dried and crushed the crystals and me and my friends got about 10-15 decent sized lines. We payed 180 rupees ~ 3$ for the bottle lol, and i think my friend took some extra too lol. I hope some indian vendors come on SR, wont have much to offer, but everything will be goddarn cheap
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Yeh I heard you can buy it from pharmacies there? Burgeoning middle class, huge population and array of relatively cheap, high quality drugs. Big gap in the market to fill there in a country which I have read is very tech savvy. I'm guessing an inconsistent postal system may be to blame? Although I have no knowledge of this.
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There have been good deals and terrible deals.
Anything you can make money off is always going to be like this.
Bigger profit? Sure why not.
Why? Because people in general are greedy as fuck. And it's been going on for decades.
One of the operations lost their chemist because it turned out they were pressing microdots at less than the agreed dosage for a bigger margin.
You can pick up hits for less than $10/hit and to me there's nothing wrong with that.
Right now you can you can buy a 10 strip for $70. Limited bonus of an extra 10 strip. 20 hits for $70 + whatever fees you get while buying BTC is a hell of a good deal.
This is a assuming it turns out to be real LSD but someone needs to take a chance on new vendors. It was worth the chance that it's real.
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Yeh I heard you can buy it from pharmacies there? Burgeoning middle class, huge population and array of relatively cheap, high quality drugs. Big gap in the market to fill there in a country which I have read is very tech savvy. I'm guessing an inconsistent postal system may be to blame? Although I have no knowledge of this.
Hahaha, we buy it from a dirty pharmacy in my town. They know what all the college students are buying it for, and the shop lady is a sly woman who tries to take more than mrp lol. And yes, the postal system is crap. I doubt Indian customs will ever stop any of my packages, but i have had 2 lost out of the 25 ive recieved. And im serious, im pretty sure they weren't confiscated and just lost. I once placed 2 orders from a vendor same day. One turned up in 7 days and the other in 35 days. Its a lax fucking country
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I noticed even after Bill got busted many years back there was still a pretty constant supply of LSD going around stateside (enough to toss vials down peoples throats at gatherings) and these days it seems to have slimmed out or I have lost touch with the right people. Granted some of those that seemed like they had ties to Bill somehow with the quantities they were making available are long since locked up as well. This isn't to say there aren't people still making it around the US, just none that I know of (which means they're doing it right).
From the hippy side of the house, yes, LSD is an incredible experience that everyone should have the opportunity to try at least once in their lives. It may go good or bad but in the end you should come out better for it. In the business sense it's one of the most profit generating substances I've ever known.
Sounds to me like OP wants a visit from the Family but due to the nature of the site and their cult-like outlook of what LSD is for I highly doubt you'll ever see it. The belief that it should be highly available is a toss up for me, I'm not a hippy in that sense. For 10-20 bucks (or more) I think the experience is worth it, even if you're used to paying $100-500 for a sheet or diluted vial pack when they were highly available.