Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: BLACKCAT13 on September 09, 2012, 12:40 pm
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I have a question to pose as the speaker for a small group who have come together and feel it is a fair one at that. We are not attempting to threaten or cause hard feelings by asking.....
We have BitCoins invested in BitFloor - Obviously everyone in the community heard what transpired recently. I myself, was keeping them there as an investment (I know - I know, Please do not tell me what I "should have done". It's MOOT at this point, THANK YOU).
On the internet site it states you can receive a refund in USD for 'what amount of money you had in it'. That is so gray. Are you speaking of Cash or Bitcoins?...as that makes a HUGE difference.We are only speaking of a 250K theft...not MILLIONS.
I believe it to be fair to refund everyone's BitCoins in currency. If so; I (as well as my group) will use the site in the future as we always have.
If not we will have to consider other alternatives, including civil action. We don't want to go this route, really we do not.
Please honor our request. I write as the speaker of several large depositors who are in total agreement of what I am requesting.
Thank you
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hey bud, i hear you loud and clear. i have been talking bout this bitcoin madness for a year.
i used bitinstant in the past for small exchanges until i found out it was run by a bunch of children who get fucked up and spill their guts on irc chat.
one of the owners who calls himself erik voorhees said his coworker charlie shrem leaked everything about bitinstant's plans to just about anyone who would listen one night on his computer.
come on guys how the fuck old are you anyway?
these exchangers are going to be the demise of the entire bitcoin economy. they also play games to fluctuate the value of bitcoins. lets' be honest with ourselves. if you had the opp to make a shitload of cash in a small amount of time would you do it if Joe Public voluntarily gave you money for a price set for you to exchange it to another currency?
unfortunately it's a bubble and one that will most likely burst. your first mistake was thinking you would make money from bitfloor - stick with the stock market or money market if you want to invest. i'm not trying to harp on you {or others in the same boat} but bitcoin is NOT the way to invest. not now anyway:
there are NO controls, NO structure and NO systems in place to keep things honest on the bitcoin exchanges. NO securities and exchange commission. NO financial services authority. bitcoin is unregulated and NOT the right place for a regular Joe to be placing money. especially when they gain little value from bitcoins anonymity, unlike those intending nefarious acts. add in bitcoin pricing volatility and you have a currency that is unusable for real world trade.
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>:(
Hey CYNIC - Did I or did I not request that no one write "I TOLD YOU SO".... and I did so in a polite manner.
I no longer view the BitCoin market as a means to invest; so let us get that out of the way off the bat.
My issue was with a refund with BitFloor. THAT's it. I do not wish to discuss the evils of BitCoins/Exchangers/etc.
I appreciate the comment...it was somewhat informative. I will have to look into what you posted soon. Until then I have enough problems. Thanks.
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>:(
Hey CYNIC - Did I or did I not request that no one write "I TOLD YOU SO".... and I did so in a polite manner.
I no longer view the BitCoin market as a means to invest; so let us get that out of the way off the bat.
My issue was with a refund with BitFloor. THAT's it. I do not wish to discuss the evils of BitCoins/Exchangers/etc.
I appreciate the comment...it was somewhat informative. I will have to look into what you posted soon. Until then I have enough problems. Thanks.
Why on earth did "several large investors" in bitcoins decide to complain about Bitfloor on Silk Road forums? If I were a "large investor" in bitcoins, I sure as shit wouldn't want to be anywhere near a site connected to the Darkweb's most notorious bitcoins-for-drugs marketplace. (Come to think of it, I'd be very surprised if anyone connected to Bitfloor or any other big bitcoin exchange would show up on Silk Road forums). And when "large investors" decide to sue, they have their attorneys handle the appropriate conversations.
Something tells me our "speaker for several large investors" is a college kid who lost coins in the Bitfloor hack and who is now pissed off because he won't be able to get any more overpriced opiates until his next check from home arrives.
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The "Grand Wizard of what"?, Alzheimer's possibly? Dementia? That is certainly an altered state of consciousness of which your DNA possibly has in its makeup.
I never stated I was a LARGE investor. I'm stating I am one of a handful of >10K USD depositors.
I would consider that larger than the average bear - No? Remember, the total take was 250K (small change..REMEMBER...Hence "Do the right thing).
How much play money are you throwing around while keeping up with your bills?
As always, "Money talks and Bullshit walks". As far as "the few who work as exchangers reading these posts"?, I have news for you -
they do. And what they do not read about they hear by "word of mouth". LE also reads every post. As far as myself complaining about "GBP" (Sorry I forgot; you are limited...let me clarify) - Good Business Practices....That was all I was asking. Not too much, eh? I really don't give two shits what this board may or may not be connected to. We purchased BitCoins as an investment - that was OUR mistake.
Maybe I should lock all your doors whilst you are away from home. I'll post a sign on your door that this property should not be trespassed on lest the trespasser be prosecuted. What's that you say? "You sent your mortgage payments but someone at the bank ran off with your money"?
Too bad. Suck it in - act like a man (and for god's sake, wipe the snot from your nose). Grab some cardboard and find a nice cozy area by a tree.
These things happen, don't let them bother you. Mom and Dad will come through (even if you have to wait for inheritance from real estate). It's just too bad the real estate market is a bust. Oh well..that's a small problem that can be solved by some "overpriced opioids" quite easily
(at least that is what some old wise man told me ;)
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>:(
Hey CYNIC - Did I or did I not request that no one write "I TOLD YOU SO".... and I did so in a polite manner.
I no longer view the BitCoin market as a means to invest; so let us get that out of the way off the bat.
My issue was with a refund with BitFloor. THAT's it. I do not wish to discuss the evils of BitCoins/Exchangers/etc.
I appreciate the comment...it was somewhat informative. I will have to look into what you posted soon. Until then I have enough problems. Thanks.
Why on earth did "several large investors" in bitcoins decide to complain about Bitfloor on Silk Road forums? If I were a "large investor" in bitcoins, I sure as shit wouldn't want to be anywhere near a site connected to the Darkweb's most notorious bitcoins-for-drugs marketplace. (Come to think of it, I'd be very surprised if anyone connected to Bitfloor or any other big bitcoin exchange would show up on Silk Road forums). And when "large investors" decide to sue, they have their attorneys handle the appropriate conversations.
Something tells me our "speaker for several large investors" is a college kid who lost coins in the Bitfloor hack and who is now pissed off because he won't be able to get any more overpriced opiates until his next check from home arrives.
I second everything that TheGrandWizard wrote, with the following addendum:
1) Who the hell are you speaking to? This is the Silk Road forums, not Bitfloor. Go post it over on bitcointalk.org in the relevant section.
2) Bitfloor did NOT state "you can receive a refund in USD for 'what amount of money you had in it.'" They state the following:
Users wishing to withdraw their USD may due so upon logging in and following the instructions for ACH withdrawals.
International users should email support@bitfloor.com to request a wire transfer.
This means that if you have USD on the site you can withdraw that. If you had Bitcoin and no USD, then there is nothing to withdraw as the Bitcoin was stolen.
To address your "That is so gray. Are you speaking of Cash or Bitcoins?" question, unless you have found some magical way to transfer Bitcoin via a Wire transfer then he is clearly speaking about cash. There is no Bitcoin there to pay withdrawals with. Did you miss the part where the Bitcoin was stolen? Or is just that you lack common sense and the thought processes that go with having an IQ higher than 40?
If you are indeed an 'investor' you need to learn to fully read the statements presented to you lest you lose everything in a state of confusion.
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You second everything the Wizard spewed from his mouth huh?
An IQ over 40? Pa-lease.. thanks for stating I am not suffering from a mental disability. Let's see, I aced the MENSA application exam - my IQ is 173 (not that I place much in the test itself). I have seen and performed procedures on humans and animals in the name of research the likes of which you can only imagine or view in the movies. I need no one to tell me about my intellect. IT'S GENETICS and also exercising your mind. If you choose to not use it - you will lose it. Just as a muscle atrophy's, the mind will turn to mush if not challenged.
I admit I made a mistake - what else are you asking? I'm not perfect - If so I would not be writing on this pathetic board.
Give a guy a break -will you? I lost a bunch of money due to a careless buffoon exposing unencrypted keys.
For that, HE (you know who I am referring to) should be held accountable. Sell your fucking car/house and pay everyone back. If not - Karma's is a bitch.... there are sociopaths out there who do more for less. Besides, your identity is well known.
Unless you plan on changing your id or moving to another country I would always be looking over my shoulder.
I do not believe for one minute that BitFloor only "received approximately a thousand dollars a month in revenue". No fucking way. I have made that in one day. That is total horse-shit. How on earth could you pay overhead costs?
I (for the fourth time) was merely asking politely if this individual would do the right thing and business would continue (I can only speak for the five of us) as if nothing transpired. That's it. I could get a mortgage approval for 500k right now. Are you telling me he can't get enough backing for 250K from investors?
CAN'T or WON'T? The others with me (most of them) believe R is part of this. I, myself, am giving him the benefit and don't feel he would do this for a mere 250K. (I) would have waited until the revenue available was over 1 million (at the very least).
Once again, I am not saying I would ever do that - I wouldn't. I am not a thief.
I am an impulsive depositor who fell to the evils of greed believing I could end up making a large return on an "investment".10 thousand USD is not an entirely enormous amount . But it is still 10K. How would you feel if you lost it?
Would you just brush it off and say to yourself "Oh well, I guess I'll just move on and explore other alternatives".
Maybe you are just a better man than I. Perhaps everyone who reads this is as well. I'm Pond Scum; worse than the thieves that hacked the exchange.
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Would like to at least think my IQ is +40 so here goes.
Not cool to go at the other members tho, most people are trying to tell you in their own round about way that you're gonna have a hard time with this which is spot on.
So Bitfloor has agreed recently that they will allow all people with a USD balance in there accounts to withdraw their money in the next few days, sadly you don't fall into this catagory as you had BTC held with them.
All current BTC holders will have to wait and see what Bitfloor decide to do with regards to the lost bitcoins, they are currently debating leaving the site up and paying debts through the transaction fees they take for trades (which may take years) or bankruptcy (which is the only other option).
Yes, bitfloor does still have bitcoins since only their hotwallet was stolen but would it be fair to only pay some of their investors back and not the others? The owners of bitfloor do not have the currency on hand to pay off all of the investors in cash so they are looking for alternatives but if/when you do get your BTC back it may be a while down the road... Theres always small claims court I guess...
Just look at Bitcoinica for example, they lost min of 100k worth of coins in a hack and they still are no closer to sorting the situation than they were 6 months ago despite numerous lawsuits and bad press.
Good luck tho bro, hope you manage to get something back as I hate seeing these exchanges robbing people and getting away with it because it involves "bitcoins"
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You second everything the Wizard spewed from his mouth huh?
Yup, pretty much. What gave it away? Was it the "I second everything that TheGrandWizard wrote" part? Gold star for you! :)
An IQ over 40? Pa-lease.. thanks for stating I am not suffering from a mental disability. Let's see, I aced the MENSA application exam - my IQ is 173 (not that I place much in the test itself). I have seen and performed procedures on humans and animals in the name of research the likes of which you can only imagine or view in the movies. I need no one to tell me about my intellect. IT'S GENETICS and also exercising your mind. If you choose to not use it - you will lose it. Just as a muscle atrophy's, the mind will turn to mush if not challenged.
I admit I made a mistake - what else are you asking? I'm not perfect - If so I would not be writing on this pathetic board.
Ah, it would appear that MENSA have significantly lowered their standards; had you not been in such a rush to make unverifiable claims that nobody here actually gives a damn about, you would have noticed that I wrote the following: "Or is just that you lack common sense and the thought processes that go with having an IQ higher than 40?", which implies that you lack the common sense and thought processes of people who have an IQ higher than 40. Just to break that down into something more comprehensible for you, I was stating that you do not have the common sense or the thought processes of people that have IQ's higher than 40. If you're still confused, read it word by word. It'll make more sense then. I also highly doubt your claim given the fact that you had a major problem understanding a 29 word statement from Bitfloor regarding the issue at hand.
Do you really think anyone here cares if you have a genius IQ of 173 or not?! More to the point, do you think anybody actually believes you?! ;D Listen kid, this is an anonymous internet forum. Nobody gives a shit whether you're the Sultan of Brunei or you're a crack addict looking to score his next hit. To be frank (which is an expression, not my name - just so you don't get confused), any claims you make either way are completely unverifiable given the [say it with me] anonymous nature of the deepweb, on which this forum happens to reside.
Score one for the mental midget masquerading as a genius! ::)
Just for the record, I wouldn't perform "procedures on humans and animals in the name of research the likes of which you can only imagine or view in the movies" - surgery has always made me a tad squeamish. 8)
Oh, and you didn't need to give us your life story, buddy. Nobody cares. Just one question though, if you don't mind: why exactly ARE you "writing on this pathetic board", given that your issue is with Bitfloor and not with Silk Road, it's vendors or community in general?! You neglected to answer that the first time 'round. Then again, it's possible that you didn't notice it because you were taking the MENSA test at the time. Ooookay kiddo. ;)
Give a guy a break -will you? I lost a bunch of money due to a careless buffoon exposing unencrypted keys.
For that, HE (you know who I am referring to) should be held accountable. Sell your fucking car/house and pay everyone back. If not - Karma's is a bitch.... there are sociopaths out there who do more for less. Besides, your identity is well known.
Unless you plan on changing your id or moving to another country I would always be looking over my shoulder.
I do not believe for one minute that BitFloor only "received approximately a thousand dollars a month in revenue". No fucking way. I have made that in one day. That is total horse-shit. How on earth could you pay overhead costs?
I (for the fourth time) was merely asking politely if this individual would do the right thing and business would continue (I can only speak for the five of us) as if nothing transpired. That's it. I could get a mortgage approval for 500k right now. Are you telling me he can't get enough backing for 250K from investors?
CAN'T or WON'T? The others with me (most of them) believe R is part of this. I, myself, am giving him the benefit and don't feel he would do this for a mere 250K.
Mmmmm no, you lost a bunch of money because you bought Bitcoin with it, then entrusted that Bitcoin to a potentially anonymous entity over the internet hoping that he'd keep it safe. The main tenet of 'investing' is never to invest more than you can afford to lose. You invested in Bitcoin and you lost out. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back in the damn saddle.
You should also take an "Introduction to Business" course as you seem to think that Roman Shtylman is responsible for his company's debts, despite the fact that Bitfloor is an incorporated company. Why should he have to "look over his shoulder"? What are you, some sort of human/animal medical researcher that puts on his assassin's hat at night to go and kill the people he thinks have wronged him?! Give me a fucking break.
You lost money when a legitimate incorporated company had a security breach; Roman has already stated that he's looking at ways to sort this out (including getting investor backing, if possible) and if he can't, he will close the company. Why would he get a fucking mortgage out to pay the debts of an incorporated company?! You're an absolute moron BLACKCAT13. I tend to refrain from throwing insults around on an anonymous internet forum but seriously, you are a complete dunce. I genuinely can't figure out how you've managed to survive out there in the big bad world for this long. ???
(I) would have waited until the revenue available was over 1 million (at the very least).
Once again, I am not saying I would ever do that - I wouldn't. I am not a thief.
I am an impulsive depositor who fell to the evils of greed believing I could end up making a large return on an "investment".10 thousand USD is not an entirely enormous amount . But it is still 10K. How would you feel if you lost it?
Would you just brush it off and say to yourself "Oh well, I guess I'll just move on and explore other alternatives".
Maybe you are just a better man than I. Perhaps everyone who reads this is as well. I'm Pond Scum; worse than the thieves that hacked the exchange.
Riiiight, so you state that you wouldn't do the very thing that you state you would do if you were in the situation of somebody presiding over a large quantity of Bitcoin. You directly contradict yourself. So now instead of just being a dunce, you're a lying dunce. Oh dear. :-\
I think I've found your problem though! You're "an impulsive depositor". Theeeeeerrrre we go. The vast majority (and we're talking in the high 90 percentile here) of people who invest their money on a whim will lose it. It would seem you get to be in the high 90's after all, BLACKCAT13! :)
Take a course in starting a business (in order to learn the reason why individuals are not responsible for the debts of their corporations), 'invest' in a financial adviser (in order to remove your impulsiveness from the equation), and do what everybody else that's tied up in the Bitfloor debacle has to: wait for a solution from Roman, or write off your losses if a solution is not forthcoming.
Oh, and another "just for the record" - I would feel pretty bad if I lost 10K, but I would have no one to blame but myself. I make my own investment decisions and do my due diligence beforehand. Surprise, surprise, I am yet to lose money on an investment. If and when I do, however, that will have been the result of a bad decision on my part.
If you want relative safety, put all your assets under the mattress and never get out of your bed.
I think I've addressed any issues or points you've raised so far. Please do feel free to throw some more idiocy my way so as I can get the enjoyment, once again, of making you realise that you're an entirely ignorant, big silly doody head. :-*
- grahamgreene
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BitCoin exchanges are shady and poorly run? In other news a lost kitten was found today.
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This thread sucks and BLACKCAT13 is retarded.
Take this to Bitcoin talk, and understand that there are risks in every investment ESPECIALLY BITCOIN
Oh and don't talk shit about The Grand Wizard, his listings always make me happy and he knows exactly what hes talking about.