Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Jallo6 on August 21, 2012, 06:57 pm
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In the wiki for sellers here on SR it states to ALWAYS use the escrow system and not to try to go around it.
Specifically in the Do's and Dont's it says
DONT -Don't ever ask for payment out of escrow.
If that is the case then why does SR allow vendors to make listings and require FE? Shouldn't they take those listings down as it is outside of SR's terms?
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Because buyers can try and scam sellers just as easily as sellers can try and scam buyers. Most decent buyers have a 5-10 TX policy where anyone with above those amounts of purchases can use escrow, you have to earn your stripes as a vendor to be able to do this and have 35+ successful transactions before you can ask for FE or even have people finalize within 3 days of dispatch.
It's fair on everyone this way.
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Because there's nothing to stop people from continuously making new accounts and saying that their order never showed up.
I don't require FE because I use delivery confirmation on all orders. But when I was using envelopes I did require FE for new buyers.
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Requiring FE is for the lazy who just don't want to deal with scammers. But the sellers need to know it is more than just giving them BTC upfront, it is giving them complete control of the whole situation. Therefor is no need to describe items accurately, no incentive to keep sellers honest about their product and on top of their game. I despise FE and think it is disgusting. A good vendor does not need to take the lazy route and if they are good enough they won't have to accept new customers at all, that is if they decide not to be not lazy about it. The least these vendors could do is put a stat requirement for no FE early. Why would you require a buyer (especially as a NEW seller), who has most likely been here longer than you, has a lot of transactions and 0/0 to FE? This is why I love and respect vendors like CN. Proof is right there that great sellers simply don't need FE early.
Now with that said I understand the reasons for doing it and am not saying they are in no way justifiable. What I am saying is that to me, as a honest buyer, who has spent quite a bit, FE early is disrespectful to me because it disregards my stats and loyalty as a buyer, as a customer. That is just how I feel as a pure buyer. I will always give my money to the seller I respect, especially return money.
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Requiring FE is for the lazy who just don't want to deal with scammers. But the sellers need to know it is more than just giving them BTC upfront, it is giving them complete control of the whole situation. Therefor is no need to describe items accurately, no incentive to keep sellers honest about their product and on top of their game. I despise FE and think it is disgusting. A good vendor does not need to take the lazy route and if they are good enough they won't have to accept new customers at all, that is if they decide not to be not lazy about it. The least these vendors could do is put a stat requirement for no FE early. Why would you require a buyer (especially as a NEW seller), who has most likely been here longer than you, has a lot of transactions and 0/0 to FE? This is why I love and respect vendors like CN. Proof is right there that great sellers simply don't need FE early.
Now with that said I understand the reasons for doing it and am not saying they are in no way justifiable. What I am saying is that to me, as a honest buyer, who has spent quite a bit, FE early is disrespectful to me because it disregards my stats and loyalty as a buyer, as a customer. That is just how I feel as a pure buyer. I will always give my money to the seller I respect, especially return money.
i totally agree pal, as much as i like wot SR has achieved and is striving to accomplish, i do believe there is so much more they could be doing to try and combat scammers both customers and vendors alike...
maybe something like FE on ur 1st 5 transactions with the vendors having to send it recorded delivery and then make it no longer a option and also then to make all orders under £100, cos lets face it, 75% + members are jus buying for personal use and not in bulk...
this would definately not solve the problems but i think it would help....
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maybe something like FE on ur 1st 5 transactions with the vendors having to send it recorded delivery and then make it no longer a option and also then to make all orders under £100, cos lets face it, 75% + members are jus buying for personal use and not in bulk...
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever read here: "make all orders under £100, cos lets face it, 75% + members are jus buying for personal use and not in bulk..."
Why not do the opposite? Why not make all orders over £100 seeing as the 25% of us who buy in bulk contribute larger amounts of commission (altogether) on our $500+ regular bulk purchases, and just say 'to hell' with the personal buyers?
I'll tell you why we don't do these things - because it wouldn't be fair. Why should I be restricted from buying just because you and the other 75% of members buying small amounts can't make a decision for yourselves not to FE? Why should I, a buyer with impeccable stats and over $8,000 spent here, be prohibited from buying products in bulk simply because I have the wherewithal to research my vendors before placing an order with them, and the common sense not to leave the safety of the escrow system?!
If a buyer gets scammed, it is always as a result of their OWN actions. THEY choose to FE on deals. THEY choose not to research their vendors before placing orders and subsequently releasing their money from escrow.
Finalising Early, whilst I will always recommend against doing so, is a Vendor's choice to ask for (once they've made 35 transactions and been selling for over a month) and a buyer's choice to agree to or decline. I don't see where the issue is?!
If a vendor requires FE, use a vendor who doesn't. If you're unhappy with the terms set out by the vendor, use somebody else. It's honestly NOT that difficult, people.
Many of us have been doing business on here for a long time with absolutely no problems at all (apart from the tony76 fiasco, but we should've seen that coming in the way he conducted business before the scam); it seems that the vast majority that get scammed are new users who fail to perform their due diligence before making a purchase.
Perhaps it's the excitement that makes them lose their self-control. Perhaps it's the awe that something like Silk Road actually exists. Perhaps it's neither, and they're just incredibly naive and have neglected to read the buyer's guide, then come to the forums to do the necessary research.
This is NOT Amazon people. This is the underground drug world. Treat it as such. Hell, you wouldn't Finalise Early on Amazon if you had the choice of escrow; why would you do it for an anonymous purveyor of delightful narcotic delicacies on a deepweb drug site?!
Common sense is what's needed, not a ban on FE and reducing the maximum value of transactions. Jesus, some of the things people are saying here these days are literally killing off my brain cells as I read them.
(And buybuy555 - you're pulling your 75%/25% statistics right out of your ass, just like 87.5% of all other statistics to be found anywhere, ever.)
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I am sick of people writing all of this crap about finalizing early. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them do it. There are some situations where finalizing early is needed, and that situation will be decided by the vendor and the customer, not you ranting on the forums. If either party is not satisfied with any of the terms they do not have to participate. That is it. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand and why do you feel the need to complain about it so much? Did you click the finalize button when you shouldn't have?
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I am sick of people writing all of this crap about finalizing early. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them do it. There are some situations where finalizing early is needed, and that situation will be decided by the vendor and the customer, not you ranting on the forums. If either party is not satisfied with any of the terms they do not have to participate. That is it. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand and why do you feel the need to complain about it so much? Did you click the finalize button when you shouldn't have?
Exactly! +1 for you sir!
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maybe something like FE on ur 1st 5 transactions with the vendors having to send it recorded delivery and then make it no longer a option and also then to make all orders under £100, cos lets face it, 75% + members are jus buying for personal use and not in bulk...
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever read here: "make all orders under £100, cos lets face it, 75% + members are jus buying for personal use and not in bulk..."
Why not do the opposite? Why not make all orders over £100 seeing as the 25% of us who buy in bulk contribute larger amounts of commission (altogether) on our $500+ regular bulk purchases, and just say 'to hell' with the personal buyers?
I'll tell you why we don't do these things - because it wouldn't be fair. Why should I be restricted from buying just because you and the other 75% of members buying small amounts can't make a decision for yourselves not to FE? Why should I, a buyer with impeccable stats and over $8,000 spent here, be prohibited from buying products in bulk simply because I have the wherewithal to research my vendors before placing an order with them, and the common sense not to leave the safety of the escrow system?!
If a buyer gets scammed, it is always as a result of their OWN actions. THEY choose to FE on deals. THEY choose not to research their vendors before placing orders and subsequently releasing their money from escrow.
Finalising Early, whilst I will always recommend against doing so, is a Vendor's choice to ask for (once they've made 35 transactions and been selling for over a month) and a buyer's choice to agree to or decline. I don't see where the issue is?!
If a vendor requires FE, use a vendor who doesn't. If you're unhappy with the terms set out by the vendor, use somebody else. It's honestly NOT that difficult, people.
Many of us have been doing business on here for a long time with absolutely no problems at all (apart from the tony76 fiasco, but we should've seen that coming in the way he conducted business before the scam); it seems that the vast majority that get scammed are new users who fail to perform their due diligence before making a purchase.
Perhaps it's the excitement that makes them lose their self-control. Perhaps it's the awe that something like Silk Road actually exists. Perhaps it's neither, and they're just incredibly naive and have neglected to read the buyer's guide, then come to the forums to do the necessary research.
This is NOT Amazon people. This is the underground drug world. Treat it as such. Hell, you wouldn't Finalise Early on Amazon if you had the choice of escrow; why would you do it for an anonymous purveyor of delightful narcotic delicacies on a deepweb drug site?!
Common sense is what's needed, not a ban on FE and reducing the maximum value of transactions. Jesus, some of the things people are saying here these days are literally killing off my brain cells as I read them.
(And buybuy555 - you're pulling your 75%/25% statistics right out of your ass, just like 87.5% of all other statistics to be found anywhere, ever.)
look dear calm down, i also have excellent stats it was jus idea and response to a post if u dont like the thread fuck off n pick a more intullectual one smartarse and ofcourse i pulled 75%+ out of the air wer did u think i got it? A SR customer survey poll..!!!
and as for urself thinking u r a "bulk buyer" lol catch urself on pal, $8000 did u spend that on 1 transaction pablo?
i have never FE and hav never been scammed bcos i do my research on each vendor 1st, unlike some but i dont agree the FE button should even be in place for wotever fucked reasons u think it should exist...
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look dear calm down, i also have excellent stats it was jus idea and response to a post if u dont like the thread fuck off n pick a more intullectual one smartarse and ofcourse i pulled 75%+ out of the air wer did u think i got it? A SR customer survey poll..!!!
and as for urself thinking u r a "bulk buyer" lol catch urself on pal, $8000 did u spend that on 1 transaction pablo?
i have never FE and hav never been scammed bcos i do my research on each vendor 1st, unlike some but i dont agree the FE button should even be in place for wotever fucked reasons u think it should exist...
Hi buybuy555,
Whilst I appreciate your responding to my post, I tend not to converse with people who resort to immaturity and insults in order to try get their points across. This is a great community we've built up here, and a little maturity wouldn't go astray if you intend to contribute positively to it. If you have anything worthwhile to add to the conversation, other than throwing insults at an anonymous person over the internet, I'll gladly respond to you.
However, feeling the ever so slight desire to point out the fallacy in your recent tirade, I'm a "bulk buyer" by your own logic in that I spend over £100 per transaction (which is the ceiling that you provided for personal use buyers) unless it's for personal amounts of drugs such as ephedrine and viagra, or items from other categories.
- grahamgreene
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Either way you look at it the same argument can me made on both ends. The main issue here is TRUST! Vendor finds it hard to trust buyers and buyers don't want to risk to FE even if the vendor appears to be legit. How can we really ever know? No, really. For example, I'm still deciding to make my first purchase here on SR but I still can't pick who to buy it from (snow). One (snow) vendor has on his main page "FE Required" with no tracking option and on top of that offers NO REFUND. Now, how the fuck is that fair to any buyer here? I mean he does have a lot of transactions and I honestly don't give a fly about the feedback system as I believe it is fundamentally flawed. But like someone wrote if you don't like the vendors policy just move on to the next seller. The fact SR allows this tactic it completely opens the can of worms on both ends then. SR should apply a strict 100% 24/7 policy rule (whatever they think is right/fair) and no questions asked. It is obvious SR tends to learn more toward the vendor but that's not hard to figure out why. In another words, even here politics exist.