Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: WTF_IS_GOING_ON on August 18, 2012, 05:17 am
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I' bring up this topic agian because I'm seeing a rash of vendors now requiring FE. FE has been the reason for some of the biggest scams on SR. Scams that were perpetrated by well established vendors that had been highly ranked. These scams if allowed to continue will lead to a lack of consumer confidence. Without the consumer SR falls.
There are only 2 reasons to require FE
1. They don't have the money to start up. So they require you to FE then buy product to ship - Vendors who start off like this very rarely make it. There is a reason they can't get a front form their supplier IRL. (Technically these people fall into the scammers catagorey becuase they don't have what they are attempting to sell. )
2. They are scammers
IF YOU WANT TO STOP SCAMMINGl - THEN STOP FE'ing. It's prefty fucking simple people.
Legitimate vendors want to sell their product. If you don't buy from vendors who require FE, the legitimate vendors will stop requiring it, and the scammers have lost there means to scam.
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Old news is old...
/thread
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Old news is old...
/thread
old news that seems to be falling upon deaf ears....chugadrug just took ~10-15k from silk road members via the finalize early route.
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Motherfucker got me on a MP exchange. Cant say i wasnt asking for it, but desperite time you know. Here is his reply to my message for reimbursement.
"I happen to see things in a much different light. This is the way I see things....
You blow your money on drugs. I am using your money to take my family on Vacation in Florida. Right now, thanks to your contributions, I am in Orlando FL with my family visiting the Disney Parks. I am sure you much rather snort your money away or smoke it up for your own selfish needs. On the other hand, now you an feel like you were a large part of a really good family visiting one of the best places on Earth. I am sure Walt Disney would rather you spend your cash in Disney World then on drugs. To send a family that would otherwise not afford the change to go? Well you sir are a Saint.
If you or anyone else would like to further donate, you know where to send the funds. Thank you, god bless!"
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If you all still insist on FE'ing with these vendors at least give them a feedback score of 1 until it is delived. This way they have an incentive to ship, if they don't at least others will know to stay away.
I see these vendors requireing FE with more than 1 feedback going back a month with buyers stating that tey that still haven't recieved. With the same vendor I will see glowing reviews like, "Package arrived on time", or "Quick and speedy delivder" with an age of 10 mins. and another at 1hr and still another 8hrs ago. I wonder if they are submitting there own feedback to make the scam look legit??? b/c everytime i"ve updated my feedback the age has stayed the same. So either they are delivering to themselves or it is an acutal buyer that' lied, eitehr way it's bogus feedback.
This maybe an old topic, but it's one that can not be stressed enogh. When you FE you are screwing yourself and everyone else. i
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There needs to be some sort of video montage that plays throughout the background of the browsing pages for SR saying DO NOT FE. Honestly when I first started, the allure of SR was such that I didn't care about the importance of the escrow system put in place for the market, I was just enthralled in the idea that I could get drugs delivered to my home and they were of the highest quality. New users need to know that playing by the books in this website will reward them with the most success. It may not be on their terms in regards to timing, but if you can wait for a reputable vendor for what you want, stay in escrow and then release the funds once you have your drugs, then everyone is happy and the system has been effective. People need to trust in the system and not the vendors, so to speak.
I don't mean to criminalize the vendors on SR. I'm not trying to bash good vendors on here that require FE on some of their orders because I'm sure they incur similar issues on their side of the equation. But as a "law abiding" member of SR, I refuse to FE for anything. The escrow system is the backbone of this anonymous market, use it.
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There needs to be some sort of video montage that plays throughout the background of the browsing pages for SR saying DO NOT FE.
+1, THIS!
/thread
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I don't think that ongoing scamming on here will really have an overall impact on SR.
There will always be vendors who will be willing to let you stay in escrow (especially if they feel business slowing down when they change to FE only policy) and then there will always be customers who will be willing to take the chance of being scammed and will FE.
Right now to me it certainly does not seem like customers were losing trust in SR - it's the vendors/offers that are getting less and less over the past 2 months.. at least from my observations it seems this way.
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its all about not finalizing early i have just been scammed after 67 transactions was the 1st time i had fe'd so in a way i asked for it and am just as much to blame as the greasy cocking sucking wop of a vendor THEBULDOG
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Old news is old...
/thread
I agree it is old news, but it this doesn't make it less true or less of a threat.
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dont have much of a choice if ur a new buyer
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If your new start out with small orders from trusted vendors.
I dont think its exactly the downfall, but it is a constant problem. Fools and their money are easily parted, and I dont think all the warning signs in the world will reverse that.
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yeah im going to make one last order from someone i have ordered from before then im out.
and to the one who said old, news is old, etc... bullshit.
finalizing early is clearly a choice, as is being here in the first place. but what is the reason for it? lets look at some facts:
if a vendor requests FE, then it must be done. provided they have been here long enough. yes, new people, they MUST be here for a certain amount of time BEFORE they demand FE. you do not receive? oh well. the vendor has DCN - you're fucked.
and to whoever does not think this will effect things on SR, you're naive. buyers are assumed to be assholes, until proven guilty. period. vendors have the FULL advantage here.
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dont have much of a choice if ur a new buyer
If buyers feel they need to FE because the vendor required it, they should give a feedback score of 1 until the order arrives. Then change it to the whatever score the vendor deserves.
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dont have much of a choice if ur a new buyer
If buyers feel they need to FE because the vendor required it, they should give a feedback score of 1 until the order arrives. Then change it to the whatever score the vendor deserves.
Great solution, best way to handle the FE situation
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if a vendor requests FE, then it must be done. provided they have been here long enough. yes, new people, they MUST be here for a certain amount of time BEFORE they demand FE. you do not receive? oh well. the vendor has DCN - you're fucked.
FE has been the reason for some of the biggest scams on SR.
*****Scams that were perpetrated by well established vendors that had been highly ranked.**************
They may have to wait before they can require it, but the biggest scammers had been here a long time and were hightly ranked. The original vendor may have sold there account or they just decide to retire and fuck as many people they can for a nestegg. I don't care how long they've been here, DON"T FE.
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dont have much of a choice if ur a new buyer
If buyers feel they need to FE because the vendor required it, they should give a feedback score of 1 until the order arrives. Then change it to the whatever score the vendor deserves.
Great solution, best way to handle the FE situation
Only problem with that system of leaving 1/5 until the package arrives, is then legit vendors will have feedback full of 1/5 from new buyers, which will lower their overall vendor score next to their name, and reduce business for them, when they could just be waiting for some parcels to be received by buyers.
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I don't see that as a problem.
1. They shouldn't be asking for FE in the first place. It is against the guidlines SR has put out for Sellers.
2. The seller then has incitive to get the order to the buyer quickly
3. Vendor are requireing Old and New buyers to FE.
4. This serves as a warning to potential buyers since not all vendors clearly state they require FE
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UMMMM..everyone knows that you're supposed to FE for everything. When in doubt FE!!!
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LOL -
It's become way to common place.
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dont have much of a choice if ur a new buyer
If buyers feel they need to FE because the vendor required it, they should give a feedback score of 1 until the order arrives. Then change it to the whatever score the vendor deserves.
Great solution, best way to handle the FE situation
Only problem with that system of leaving 1/5 until the package arrives, is then legit vendors will have feedback full of 1/5 from new buyers, which will lower their overall vendor score next to their name, and reduce business for them, when they could just be waiting for some parcels to be received by buyers.
Let me start by saying I dont agree with FE'ing at all and I remember reading somewhere on the forum that they were going to start banning seller that require it.
However,
#1) I have already seen vendors that state on there page that you have to FE and leave a 5/5 rating. Dont remember who it was but if I see it again Ill out them on this thread!
#2) When you FE, there is no requirement that you even leave feed back at that time. You can FE and not leave feedback tell it arrives. Once you FE, when it prompts you for feedback, just go back to your account page and dont enter anything. You can come back later and fill in the feedback.
#3) NEVER FE, there is no reason for it. Some vendors require it, so dont spend your money with them. Buy from a vendor that does not require FE. IF you are new, look for vendors that want new customers and never require an FE.
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I agree there is no requierment to leave feedback when an order is finalized "early" or otherwise, but why not use the tools given?
wtih normal transactions, If you pay for something and never recieved it; wouldn't you leave a feedback score of "1". I say the same is for FE. I have to pay for something, but I don't have it in hand. A score of 1 is what you get.
it's all a matter of who has the leverage and who has the balls to use it. The buyer or the vendor. Right now, its the vendors are the only ones with the balls to use the leverage they have, and the buyer is just laying down and taking it right up the ass.
The escrow system is there to protect both the buyer and the vendor. Vendors need grow up and realize when you run a business, loss is expected. At least with escrow they are pretty much guaranteed only a 50% loss. whereas when the buyer FEs they are guaranteed 100% loss.
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Motherfucker got me on a MP exchange. Cant say i wasnt asking for it, but desperite time you know. Here is his reply to my message for reimbursement.
"I happen to see things in a much different light. This is the way I see things....
You blow your money on drugs. I am using your money to take my family on Vacation in Florida. Right now, thanks to your contributions, I am in Orlando FL with my family visiting the Disney Parks. I am sure you much rather snort your money away or smoke it up for your own selfish needs. On the other hand, now you an feel like you were a large part of a really good family visiting one of the best places on Earth. I am sure Walt Disney would rather you spend your cash in Disney World then on drugs. To send a family that would otherwise not afford the change to go? Well you sir are a Saint.
If you or anyone else would like to further donate, you know where to send the funds. Thank you, god bless!"
You should respond that you've figured out who he is, and happen to be on your way to Florida. Make it sound really good, like a sincere threat. Make him shit his pants in fear for his family.
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There are only 2 reasons to require FE
nah, there's more: a vendor ships to a high-risk region (eg. EU to USA) and states that he'll send it, but won't take the loss. FE would be ok in that case.
vendors protect themselves against potential buyer scams, so implementing a rule like: FE if you your total transaction are < $100 or stuff like that is ok-ish too.
As far as I know, when resolving an order the resolution center is on the buyers side most of the time. Never had the pleasure to deal with that myself though.
The (for me valid) FE-scenarios are special cases though and should be implemented in the system somehow. I don't care that much since I don't fall in either of those categories.
But I guess it totally sucks for new buyers. "Use trusted vendors only" is some weird advice. How should a new user trust any vendor? One could only rely on the forums, but that's second hand trust...
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So... Boycott FE on bigger orders then it sounds like
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infighting will be the death of SR
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buyers are assumed to be assholes, until proven guilty. period. vendors have the FULL advantage here.
Unfortunately this is all too true. Thankfully I now have a very good track record but I worked hard and spent a lot of money to earn it. Before I did every other order I placed would either be cancelled or I would be asked to finalize early. SR is not very welcoming to noob buyers. But I suppose a vendor has to protect himself so nothing against them, its just the way she goes.
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you only can say it from the site of a seller, some of you know me. Im not the smallest ligth her on SR!
But the problem with Orders in REsolution in spcial biger or expensive ones is somtimes buyer go into resolution, and never accapt any aggrement you make.
Also when you offer a 50% refund wich is loos for me on every Product! They also do not accept it! I try to make best prices you can get on the road, but
in the lat time i got scamd so often that i realy feel unlucky.... this is shit. I want to offer my products and people using it out. Most often it happens at coke!
I have a resolution atm. wich is aout a 60% refund, the buyers says product was not good give me back my money... i only can say wtf... i got so many very happy
coke buyers in last time then somthing like that... or guys how did not FE on untracked order wich are telling me after month or 16 in resoltuion that there never was anything...
that why i usual want tracked orders...
I have no problems with ESCROW, but there must be an standard Rule or somthing like that from SR that when i can show tracking and it can bee seen that pack arraived or cames
back to sender the seller gehts his money!
I got severel times the problem that people give wrong/fake addresses where the letter can be send to, after not reciving it they cam to me and say it is my fault and i have to refund it!
Also when i dont want to do it, SR Staff give them a 100% refund... I mean it can be 4 real... 50% refund max nothing else
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lol... what people will do for free drugs... ridiculous
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They will ultimately have to improve the system. In my experience with working with people, especially those selling illegal wares , they are not to be trusted (This might be controversial for those who have a good buddy dealer. For those on the more junkie end like me will totally agree). This can make SR a very nerveracking experience.
I am sure there will be a system that evolves that protects both sellers and buyers alike.
Anybody can send shit to an address through the mail. That isn't hard or good business. Even having stellar product doesn't make you a great vendor. Combining those two aspects with a guarantee of delivery (i.e. you are refining your techniques of stealth, care of packaging continuously) is what will make you immortal.
Paying top dollar for a dude to sell you shit and do so poorly so it gets intercepted and tarnishes your clean sheet (provided you have one!) with police.... hmm... I have more lucrative ways to gamble away my existence! Thank fuck... SR will only stick around like this until legislation changes (not THAT much) so that the cops can fist you if anything illegal comes through the mail, throwing away plausible deniability. Against my human rights, you think? I lol'ed!
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I just refuse to use vendors that require FE. If everyone did this then they would be put out of business.
There are plenty of great vendors who don't require FE.
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There is never going to be a system that is perfect. There will alway be imprefections. We run into this IRL all the time, but FE is not the answer. Those who are vending will have buyers who don't like the product or don't recieve. You can pretty much tell if someone scamming you and refusal of service is always at your disposal. Since vendors do sell illicit products there are no third paries to ensure quality or consistancy. To assume a buyer is lying because 5 others liked it is a fallacy.
Expecting the world to be perfect and to always make a profit is immature, greedy and unrealistic. Vendiing is not easy, its a job. Guess what, JOBS SUCK! If you don't like it or can't make it work. Then it is not in you, do something else.