Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: awakened350 on July 29, 2012, 09:26 am
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*******UPDATE********
Please see page 4 and 5 for all details but a 2nd loan was issued to twak for the sum of 300btc and 30% interest which was due on the 29th of Aug. by midnight. He had not replied in over 2 weeks before receiving a message from him a few days ago promising to make right on the loan but since then there has been no communication again and no money received.
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I will be loaning professortwak $2000 USD. I'm posting the agreement here out in the open. He will be posting shortly to confirm that he agrees to the terms. Once he receives the money he will post again to confirm that he has received it. I ask of anyone that reads his agreement to reply to this topic and quote his agreement in a way of sorta notarizing the agreement. Thanks for everyone's help :)
The agreement:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/5802056679
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from awakened350. The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days (from 7/29 to 8/12).
2. The principle loan is $2000.
3. The interest to be paid is $1000.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened by 11:59pm on 8/12.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins with the btc sum calculated using the mtgox average market rate at the time of repayment.
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
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50 percent interest for two weeks? Nice.
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I agree to the terms set forth the OP, and look forward to a positive ending to this thread in 14 days (or sooner). Can I get a witness??
thanks again to awakened, and others who have assisted.
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oh, and maybe i should stop forgetting this is my new account. better to have two accounts i guess. ugh.
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I agree to the terms set forth the OP, and look forward to a positive ending to this thread in 14 days (or sooner). Can I get a witness??
thanks again to awakened, and others who have assisted.
Payment sent:
Total: ฿233.62
($2,053.52 at $8.79 per Bitcoin)
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Just curious why would an established vendor need such an amount of money?
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twak...need any more?? I like those terms and I got the coin
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Just curious why would an established vendor need such an amount of money?
It doesnt hurt to have a little injection of capital into someones business to help get their products produced and sold.
Great Job on this Awakened, Looking forward to seeing some new listings from the professor.
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Holy fuck. That's a payday loan at like 1300% APR.
Good luck ProfessorT. When you get your account settled drop me a PM.
+SE+
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its a fair question. i took on a partner on the laboratory side a couple months ago. she handles handles some duties, mainly financial etc. i handle customer service, admin, and everything else. i was really struggling to meet the demands of running prof_T by myself and it reflected in the type of service i was providing. i needed some accountability and transparency was the answer. we have been rocking since then. we believe that we should concentrate on the mainly the one product here on SR and to not get sidetracked from our bread and butter by trying to sell too many things. we are in total agreement on that. that could change in the future but for now, that is how it is. however, there are a couple of things that i have really good luck with in the real world, that i cannot sell on SR. or i cannot make any money on SR selling it.
so this is my side project, and while i am investing a considerable amount myself, the discount for bulk multiplies exponentially when just a few thousand dollars are added in. like, it cuts the price i would have paid by almost half, just getting the two grand from awakened. this particular drug has a profit margin that is somewhat ridiculous, and so the loan payout reflects that. no reason to get greedy. there is enough room at the table on this one for lots of folks to sit down and eat. and it won't last forever. so i wanted to get while the getting is good.
plus, talk about a silent partner...... you couldn't ask for a better silent partner than another trusted SR member. if you are interested in the same loan/terms, i have an ad up in the loans section. i still have room to add in a couple grand to make the order i really want to make (best case scenario order). if not, we'll just move ahead with this one tomorrow and i might repost the ad whenever it is time to purchase again. hopefully, i won't need the extra cash then, but you never know. life is expensive.
prof_T
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I've never seen a "loan section" and don't think I'd want to!! lol
I've seen your product, your a long term trusted vendor with good reviews/stats and I got some extra coin. I don't know if 2 weeks is enough time to cash out loan coins, buy bulk, break up, package, mail and still be out of escrow in time... but whatever. I don't ask questions that are none of my buisness, I just would expect the terms too be met
I sent you a message on the main site. hope we can do business
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???
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i forgot to confirm that i did receive the money from awakened. waiting on two others that wrote me last minute before i pull the listing and place my order. thanks again, and we are already one day down, so its time to get this show on the road. thanks again.
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Will be interesting to see how this goes.
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indeed. i will either have street cred galore, or lose what i have and go into negative territory in that area.
but the product that is so valuable to me, is actually one you sell limetless. so if i show i can do this, maybe you might get an order from me the next go around.
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indeed. i will either have street cred galore, or lose what i have and go into negative territory in that area.
but the product that is so valuable to me, is actually one you sell limetless. so if i show i can do this, maybe you might get an order from me the next go around.
Yes I know what you are buying, someone spoke to me about it.
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i forgot to confirm that i did receive the money from awakened. waiting on two others that wrote me last minute before i pull the listing and place my order. thanks again, and we are already one day down, so its time to get this show on the road. thanks again.
Thanks for the confirm. Good luck with the rest.
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limetless ?
hmmmmmmmmmm
pussy ?
supershard ?
the Universe ?
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How is this loan coming along?
Only a couple days left on it.
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Just spoke with profT. He's had some setbacks but it sounds like everything is still in order.
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Hope it all works out well. :)
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Yes, this will be quite interesting to see how it plays out. I sure hope everything goes to plan as that says alot about the Road and its vendors...at least some of them.
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Well today is the day, what is the verdict?
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I am interested to see how this plays out. My guess is that he will need an extension. I am pretty positive he will pay back what he said, but I think he bit off more than he could chew for such a small time frame.
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I too would like to see how this plays out... i really hope that this all works out,, like budtender said...it would definitely say a lot about awakened as a person, and prof-t for offering 50% interest :) ... its nice to see the SR community has got each others backs, for the most part.
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$1k has been repaid and he has said I will receive the remainder tonight. Quite happy with how this is progressing, I'm sure you all can imagine the feeling in my gut when I hit send on the initial $2k :P
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It's getting close, can't wait to see how it turns out, OP is right, this will say something in terms of the way they set this up. fingers are crossed, hope it works out for both.
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Another 1k has been repaid as of last night. He sent me a message saying he could get the remainder to me this morning if I had to have it by then but would really appreciate an extra day or so to get the funds together. I had no problem with this and agreed to the small extension. Assuming he gets the last bit in as promised I'll happily work with him again on another loan.
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man i thought i posted a reply to this already..... i guess i didn't hit post. owell, that post was longer and better than this one. so here is the short version.
i would like to publicly thank awakened for helping me put aside the necessary funding for my side project. it is a project that doesn't impact SR sales, since it won't be sold on SR in the near future anyway. despite the necessary funding, my supplier was unable to fill my order without a drop ship and given the timetable i gave the lender(s), this solution was not going to work... .so i had to pull out of the deal to ensure that i repay the loan on time.
it is disappointing obviously, but that is the gamble and i stand by the decision. so i'm paying this loan out of my SR paycheck so to speak since no actual product was ever secured with the loan. not a big deal as i have cash available and am able to cover it. however, i think as a human it is easy to expect this type of deal to go smoothly and quickly, when in reality it usually has at least a couple days of unexpected waiting. fir instance, as we speak i am still awaiting the 7K wire sent to a far away land to be returned to my bank account. :) they are a trusted vendor, but shit takes time.
anyway, i paid up on the principle a bit over $800 last night which left a balance of a bit less than $200. i was out of btc so i offered alternate payment methods (no, not paypal btw.... offering moneypak and/or wu) but awakened, being the cool mf that he is, offered to just wait on the remaining btc to clear from my SR shipments. i appreciate the courtesy, but unless australian customs decides to give me a fucking break this week... and it does not appear as though they will.... i'm going go ahead buy some coins this morning. buying coins is so painful for a vendor :) now, i doubt i have to actually do it as BTC come in at all hours for me, but if there are no more payments to me by 8am, i am going to go to the store real quick and buy a MP to get a few btc and cover the remainder. its been a smooth loan and i want to ensure this is closed out asap. awakened has been extremely easy to work with and i'm glad to pay and move forward.
however, i still haven't got the product i want, so i'm off again to try and secure it starting tomorrow. i will be using SR vendors this time as my domestic vendor will no longer ship the chemical to my home state, and a drop ship to a neighboring state it too labor intensive. i will hedge my bets by using three different vendors most likely. one of them more than likely being the o.g. who posts among us ^^^ ;) and two other established vendors.
i'll be placing a listing for another short term loan to help cover expenses. the terms will be a little bit more forgiving to me since all three vendors ship from outside the US. the return will be slightly less, but not due to profit margins. mainly, i am concerned with the price of btc and don't want to make a deal like above only to have my interest payout increase by another 25% if the btc loses some of its somewhat inflated value right now (12BTC/1 USD).
i'll come back to close this out as awakened confirms payment on the remaining $200. since i am ready to go on attempt #2, i am going to post my new listing on this thread. potential lenders, you can message me for more details regarding what i am ordering and what my strategy is. its not rocket science, so i don't mind revealing some details. i don't really need that much this time since 5K of the 7K i sent off is mine. but i still think there is a big enough impact to gather an extra 200 - 400 btc for this order. the less ordering i have to do in the future the better, so additional funds are worth the expense for me.
thanks again to awakened for doing this deal, getting my first loan finished up, and just generally being a pretty agreeable dude.
prof_T
new listing: 50 btc returns 65 in 14 days
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/31a53b42ad
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I have lent 51.64 BTC to professortwak and expect 66.64 BTC in a fortnight returned. Any idea why there's a 1.64 BTC discrepancy?
Also look forward to the g of shard I've ordered! :)
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okay, the coins started rolling in so i'm closing out the loan with awakened as we speak. thanks again to him for the opportunity to make us both some coin. the way i figure it, i think i still broke even due the extra cash available to me to continue my normal operation while most of my nest was in limbo. so even though the product wasn't procured, the money was still used in a round about way.
i am hereby acknowledging the new loan given to me by electrofermion. the terms are as follows pending finalization by him.
the agreement:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/31a53b42ad
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from electrofermion. The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 51.64 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 66.64 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins with the btc sum calculated using the mtgox average market rate at the time of repayment.
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
electrofermion, when you get a chance please approve for the forums to see. thanks a lot for your business and i am excited once again. the 1.64 is due to my listings being pegged to the dollar to avoid 175usd grams of meth. btc is moving too fast to keep my listings in BTC. even in that short time it went up a little bit. having said that, i am more than happy to convert listings to USD or AUS at the time of the loan. and change the terms to those currencies (basically hedging the btc borrowed). but i'm also okay with not hedging. who knows they may go to 15usd and the loan will pay for itself :)
i would start a new thread, bu that is just confusing with many borrowers. hope you don't mind awakened. maybe a mod will change the title for us when appropriate. you should have coin in your account anytime.... coming from bitcoinOPX. totally forgot i had a balance there and they emailed me telling me they are shutting down. very nice.
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I hereby sign off on the above contract. I have finalised the loan and meth purchase.
It would have been simpler for loan if price were pegged to BTC rather than USD.
Good luck with your acquisition!
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Hold on so does this mean the loans have been compounded?
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no, not compounded. i just thought since i might have more than one or two of these loans, it would be easier to keep it all on one thread instead of 3/4/5 of em. maybe after awakened signs off this one as paid in full, we could just change the title with his blessing.... of course.
the loan mentioned above is a new listing and Electrofermion already ordered from that custom listing. and to confirm he transferred the BTC a few minutes ago as well. or i noticed them a few minutes ago anyway.
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okay, the coins started rolling in so i'm closing out the loan with awakened as we speak. thanks again to him for the opportunity to make us both some coin. the way i figure it, i think i still broke even due the extra cash available to me to continue my normal operation while most of my nest was in limbo. so even though the product wasn't procured, the money was still used in a round about way.
i am hereby acknowledging the new loan given to me by electrofermion. the terms are as follows pending finalization by him.
the agreement:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/31a53b42ad
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from electrofermion. The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 51.64 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 66.64 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins with the btc sum calculated using the mtgox average market rate at the time of repayment.
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
electrofermion, when you get a chance please approve for the forums to see. thanks a lot for your business and i am excited once again. the 1.64 is due to my listings being pegged to the dollar to avoid 175usd grams of meth. btc is moving too fast to keep my listings in BTC. even in that short time it went up a little bit. having said that, i am more than happy to convert listings to USD or AUS at the time of the loan. and change the terms to those currencies (basically hedging the btc borrowed). but i'm also okay with not hedging. who knows they may go to 15usd and the loan will pay for itself :)
i would start a new thread, bu that is just confusing with many borrowers. hope you don't mind awakened. maybe a mod will change the title for us when appropriate. you should have coin in your account anytime.... coming from bitcoinOPX. totally forgot i had a balance there and they emailed me telling me they are shutting down. very nice.
Just chiming in to say I've been paid in full and its been a pleasure to work with professortwak. Solid communication all around and I made an easy $1k so I can complain.
ProfT You're gonna want to change the loan agreement above to say elctrofermions name not mine ;)
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Pleased to see this went through without any issue, just shows that SR and the forums are a legitimate commercial platform unlike what those against it would have the rest of the world believe.
Truly a step in the right direction. :)
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Pleased to see this went through without any issue, just shows that SR and the forums are a legitimate commercial platform unlike what those against it would have the rest of the world believe.
Truly a step in the right direction. :)
Werd!
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Pleased to see this went through without any issue, just shows that SR and the forums are a legitimate commercial platform unlike what those against it would have the rest of the world believe.
Truly a step in the right direction. :)
Ah you beat me to the punch, def glad to see this defy odds and work out so smooth. I'm proud to be a part of this place, especially when I see this kind of stuff. Like I've said before, helps me keep my faith in humanity. Good job guys! Good Luck with your vending and new loan Prof Twak, you too electro.
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Well just snagged 6 slots in profT new loan of 50btc for 65btc paid back in 14 days. Here's hoping for another smooth transaction!
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2. The principle loan is 51.64 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 66.64 BTC.
Just wanted to point out that you need to re-word, update and sign the re-worded terms of your contract on the following point; the interest to be paid is 15 BTC, on top of the principle of 51.64 BTC, not 66.64 BTC as stated.
In addition, the party agreeing to the contract should quote the contract in their reply stating their agreement to the terms, and both parties should ensure that they do not edit those posts; an edit of the original agreement post could very easily bring the terms of the contract into dispute, and would also allow the creditor to edit the quote of the original agreement in order to change the terms; this should result in immediate termination of the contract with the editing offender losing his or her rights and protections afforded to them by the terms of the contract.
I have no doubt that Electrofermion would do the honourable thing and not expect 66.64 BTC interest to be paid on a 51.64 BTC loan. However, as you both have publicly stated your agreement to these terms, he / she would be within their rights to do so, demanding that the contract be satisfied and that they receive payment of 118.28 BTC on the due date.
Non-payment would put your reputation on the line and, as per article 6 of the terms of your agreement, would allow SR staff to satisfy the debt from your assets: "6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed."
Even though this is all being done in good faith, I think it's important to ensure that this is all conducted properly, especially given the not insignificant amounts of Bitcoin in question. It would also be important to ensure that the SR staff agree to act as executors of the contract, should one or both parties decide to break the terms contained therein.
- grahamgreene
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Gonna go ahead and copy the contract and make the changes suggested by grahamgreene. I've also remove the clause about calculation of repayment being made based off of mtgox since this is a straight btc to btc loan per the item posting "14 day loan: 50 BTC returns 65 BTC (30%)" Since I have grabbed 6 slots the principle is 300btc and the interest is 90 btc for a total return of 390btc
Terms of contract:
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from awakened350(payment made by alternate account "twakloan") The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 300 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 90 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened350(payment made to alternate account "twakloan") by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
Twak if you can please quote this and agree to it.
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I am going to jail on Monday for a couple of years, so I won't be able to see how this all pans out. I do, however, have faith that everything will be fine with ProfessorTwak at the helm. You guys have shown a lot of faith by trusting him with such a loan, and I'm sure it means a lot to him. I wish everyone luck with this endeavor, especially the Professor! Get it done, buddy!
Eco
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Sorry to go off-topic but ecopaktm, can you check your PM's please?
Cheers.
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Sorry to hear you'll be leaving us, Eco! ProfT, could you please quote the contract and agree to it?
Terms of contract:
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from Electrofermion (payment made). The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 51.64 BTC.
3. The interest to be paid is 15 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to Electrofermion by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins.
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
~ Electrofermion
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[/quotGonna go ahead and copy the contract and make the changes suggested by grahamgreene. I've also remove the clause about calculation of repayment being made based off of mtgox since this is a straight btc to btc loan per the item posting "14 day loan: 50 BTC returns 65 BTC (30%)" Since I have grabbed 6 slots the principle is 300btc and the interest is 90 btc for a total return of 390btc
Terms of contract:
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from awakened350(payment made by alternate account "twakloan") The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 300 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 90 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened350(payment made to alternate account "twakloan") by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
Twak if you can please quote this and agree to it.e]
i apologize. i have been feverishly working towards a solution for international stealth shipping. i would like to thank limetless for providing a customer of mine with some stealth shipping best practices and ideas. i have taken one of those ideas and ran with it. i have, what i believe to be, a solution that at the risk of sounding cocky is..... damn near fucking borderproof. next level shit going on here folks.
loan terms are approved. orders going out today. thanks to those who have helped make it happen once again.
and to further address gg's post, i agree to pay the 66.64 BTC. i've got no issue with that agreement.
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Sorry to hear you'll be leaving us, Eco! ProfT, could you please quote the contract and agree to it?
Terms of contract:
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from Electrofermion (payment made). The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 51.64 BTC.
3. The interest to be paid is 15 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to Electrofermion by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins.
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
~ Electrofermion
sorry, buddy.... didn't see yours. however, you will know i'm telling the truth on my page update when you get your package, with additional stealth included (in the future this will be reserved for 1/4 oz up) but seeing how you kick ass, i will in return kick ass. see you.
---Approved and Agreed----
note to buyers who are worried about my loans. apparently a LOT of folks follow this thread. which is funny to me, but i felt i needed to address based on questions/offers i am getting in my inbox.
this has nothing to do with "our" deal. that is why i am getting outside investment. international escrow stretches me thin and have a partner who manages that money for me so that i can spend time on my doing my favorite SR activities, answering PM's and making labels. because i fucking LOVE typing, customer service and answering what my success rate to australia is.. but anyway, i agreed to that for my own good (as i sometimes get a lot of stuff going on at once) and i don't want to mess with a something that is working out quite well. i now what i have time for, and what i am good at. financial auditing on a scale of SR is NOT my cup of tea. but building relationships in business certainly is. in real life, and on here (although there are some who might laugh at the latter).
so yes, while i appreciate the offers to FE, please stay within escrow for the smaller orders because if i lose my data today, i won't have a record of your order. i do not keep anything and it is damn near impossible to recover from a data disaster with 40 1 gram FE's. i know you are trying to help, but seriously..... we are good.
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Good luck @ court eco!
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Wow wtf bitcoins!!! The value in plummeting!!!
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@Electrofermion
Have you or anyone else heard from twak lately? Nearing the end of our loan and havent heard from him in about a week :/
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Haven't heard from him; haven't received meth, either. Maths assignment due in a couple days too; luckily have some low quality speed to get me through! Fingers crossed meth gets here tomorrow.
Prof. Twak recently posted that he'll be leaving the retail side of things, which is a shame. Wonder if eco is still with us...
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I sure am, sir! For another month, anyway!
Twak's package arrived, but I didn't post on here because of the topic - I meant to delete my other post on here actually. I never act like a fiend, but I didn't think it was going to make it in time! After court I came home, and about forty minutes later the delivery man was knocking at my door!
:)
ECO
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N ICE!
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sorry guys, busy as fucking shit and then i got caught up in the vlad/limet thread. there goes an hour of non work. i just sent over the principle to electro... . and a DCN which i use for proof of mailing on international priority pacakages. en route.
waiting on a couple of oders to come through and then will be sending awakened his principal. and then i will pay both folks their interest as it arrives tonight. i really appreciate the help from both of you guys and you can be sure that i will not ever run out the back door. even if something went terribly wrong, i would still pay. i've worked way to fucking hard to get street cred while have a low 90's approval rating. i don't know anyone else how maintains a top seller status with such a rating. that's because it isn't inflated, its real. even though i already sent a buyer twice, he left me a 2/5. should i blacklist him? well, doesn't matter, i'm just going to send again to prove a point. i do what is right. period. sometimes that takes a while (referring to internatioal reships/refunds), but it always happens.
big shout out to the lenders on this one. i was able to do a couple things extra with the cash and have positioned myself nicely for an exit from the retail world of SR because of your contributions. thanks again, and thanks to all the customers that stuck by me when it was grim. the new ownership knows who you are, and you will be very please with them. seriously, they aer better at this than me. and they don't do any drugs at all. so, you won't get long ass rants on the forum and overtweaking on the packages being stealth enough :)
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Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
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I have received the principal. As PT said, still waiting on interest and meth. Luckily the maths assignment wasn't hard!
Just coming up on a shroom trip right now...
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Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
http://i.qkme.me/3pk9ba.jpg
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
http://i.qkme.me/3pk9ba.jpg
Yea rather worried by his lack of communication this time around. I havent heard from him via message at all in almost the entire 2 weeks. Hopefully just been busy but the first time I loaned him money the communication was excellent.
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
http://i.qkme.me/3pk9ba.jpg
Thats some funny shit! I'm actually wearing South Park pants right now. lmao
ECO
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
http://i.qkme.me/3pk9ba.jpg
Yea rather worried by his lack of communication this time around. I havent heard from him via message at all in almost the entire 2 weeks. Hopefully just been busy but the first time I loaned him money the communication was excellent.
I hope you do get paid back. Given the first loan in this thread was for 3K total, and this loan is for bitcoins that are only worth around $800-ish(estimate)... probably nothing to worry about. Hopefully.
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Hey twak, haven't heard back from you yet or received any of the loan repayment.
Holy shit! Way to go pt. You have gave me a minute amount of faith in humanity again.
PT restores my faith in humanity at least once a week.
ECO
http://i.qkme.me/3pk9ba.jpg
Yea rather worried by his lack of communication this time around. I havent heard from him via message at all in almost the entire 2 weeks. Hopefully just been busy but the first time I loaned him money the communication was excellent.
I hope you do get paid back. Given the first loan in this thread was for 3K total, and this loan is for bitcoins that are only worth around $800-ish(estimate)... probably nothing to worry about. Hopefully.
Errr tad bit more. With interest and at current mtgox rates the btc he owes would be worth $4.2k
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Oh... I did not see the other loan amounts. My word, that truly sounds painful. I hold out all hopes that the loan is repaid in full, I really do.
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Well still no word at all from twak and payment was due last night. So per the terms of our agreement he is currently in default on 390btc. I've unfortunately had to contact SR staff to step in but hopefully he will reply soon as we can work this out without further issue. I've changed the topic of the thread and updated the first post to indicate the potential default.
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Shameless bump to see if anyone else know whats happening.
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Shameless bump to see if anyone else know whats happening.
I had to cut ties months ago with who I thought I could consider my best SR acquaintance, vendor, whathaveyou. That was the pattern for me after I got fed up with. Let me back up by saying my dealings and your's are two beasts of a different nature. He may be on top of it and the payment is there before I get done typing this. It was always something spectacular that he pulled through with, and then when it came down the get down and things werent as easy as before, he stopped responding ( even on our "friendship" level of communication ) Hopefully all this works out for you. If not, I hope enough people finally get the hint that making up for something with extra product/whatever does not compensate for the lack of customer service that the professor bound himself to per the seller's agreement. Just wanted to give you another bump and my experience even though I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear.
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he shipped orders this week. one for a friend arrive a few days ago at one of my safe addys
maybe just busy, or sleeping after a binge??
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he shipped orders this week. one for a friend arrive a few days ago at one of my safe addys
maybe just busy, or sleeping after a binge??
I hope you haven't loaned him BTC also CC, I saw your offer to him a while ago. If so, best of luck man. You are a good guy
The higher the risk the client is, the higher the interest rate. There's a reason these interest rates are through the roof and someone is willing to 'pay' them. Without big risk there is no big reward and with big risk there are big losses.
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he shipped orders this week. one for a friend arrive a few days ago at one of my safe addys
maybe just busy, or sleeping after a binge??
I could see not replying for a few days, I'm easy to work with and dont get anxious all that easily, its the fact that he has not replied in 2 weeks and his loan is now a few days past due with no responce to any messages that has me concerned.
It was indeed a rather high risk but given that the first loan was paid back without hassle and he communicated exceptionally well the entire time I chose to take the risk again knowing that he would have to throw out his reputation as a seller if he failed to pay it back which is certainly not worth a relatively small gain of $3k. I am working with SR staff and will hopefully be able to come to a solution.
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You should have set up a proper contract that both of you sign with your pgp keys stating that if he's not responding and not paying you back the SR admins will suspend his seller account and just take his coins from there .. well if he's got some that is of course.
That's what my partner and I did.
Cheers
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I am working with SR staff and will hopefully be able to come to a solution.
Why would SR get involved in this?
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it's some funny shit that people still have not figured out ecopaktm is a total scamming peice of shit too he is in on all of this, the same with the guy talking about his homework etc... all scamming and you are all so dumb you can't see it
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[/quotGonna go ahead and copy the contract and make the changes suggested by grahamgreene. I've also remove the clause about calculation of repayment being made based off of mtgox since this is a straight btc to btc loan per the item posting "14 day loan: 50 BTC returns 65 BTC (30%)" Since I have grabbed 6 slots the principle is 300btc and the interest is 90 btc for a total return of 390btc
Terms of contract:
I, ProfessorTwak, have agreed to receive a loan from awakened350(payment made by alternate account "twakloan") The loan terms are as follows:
1. Loan is for 14 days time of finalization (assuming 8/15-8/29).
2. The principle loan is 300 BTC
3. The interest to be paid is 90 BTC.
4. The principle and interest are both due to awakened350(payment made to alternate account "twakloan") by 11:59pm on 8/29.
5. Payment of the principle and interest will be repaid in the form of bitcoins
6. ProfessorTwak agrees to pay in full by due date. If the payment term is not met, professortwak agrees to determination of SR staff, including direct garnishment of the vendor account to ensure payment is guaranteed.
Twak if you can please quote this and agree to it.e]
i apologize. i have been feverishly working towards a solution for international stealth shipping. i would like to thank limetless for providing a customer of mine with some stealth shipping best practices and ideas. i have taken one of those ideas and ran with it. i have, what i believe to be, a solution that at the risk of sounding cocky is..... damn near fucking borderproof. next level shit going on here folks.
loan terms are approved. orders going out today. thanks to those who have helped make it happen once again.
and to further address gg's post, i agree to pay the 66.64 BTC. i've got no issue with that agreement.
The contract twak agreed to is quoted above. SR obviously does not HAVE to get involved in this but given that he is a seller and defaulting on a large loan could greatly indcate intention to scam other customers in the future I am hoping they will do everything in their power to take care of the matter since professor twak agreed to give them permission to do so in the event of a default.
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the beginning of this thread was so nice then it ended like any other thread..
with hate.
/thumbs
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the beginning of this thread was so nice then it ended like any other thread..
with hate.
/thumbs
Yep very sad to see it go down this route. We were developing quite a nice relationship before communication ceased. Hell the first loan was a few days late too but it was no big deal because I was kept in the loop the entire time and I was perfectly ok with the delay. It's when communication stops that problems arise :(
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it's some funny shit that people still have not figured out ecopaktm is a total scamming peice of shit too he is in on all of this, the same with the guy talking about his homework etc... all scamming and you are all so dumb you can't see it
No need to flame anyone. It doesn't help matters. If you have evidence to support your claims that anyone else is involved or scamming please post it so it can be reviewed.
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Honestly I don't think he intended to scam when he took the loan. It just does not add up. If he was planning to scam he should have timed it with other selling scams to maximize his pay off before his reputation was trashed. He also could have left the loan listing up to get give others a chance at it also but he pulled the listing as soon as he reached his target amount. He also lowered the interest pay off from 50% from the first loan that he paid off without problem to 30%. If he was planning on scamming it would have made more sense to keep it at 50% to keep the deal as sweet as can be.
My guess is that he has run into some issues with getting the money together along with being very busy and who knows what else and has sort of stuck his head in the sand instead of simply replying to me and keeping an open line of communication.
Twak if you are reading this its not too late to get back to communicating. If you explain to me whats going on and make a partial payment as an act of good faith and keep me int he loop on when the rest will be paid off I'm willing to work with you and take down the scamming warnings for the time being.
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I still haven't received the 15 BTC interest or meth. I'll ask SR staff for help tomorrow.
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I still haven't received the 15 BTC interest or meth. I'll ask SR staff for help tomorrow.
Has he been in communication with you at all?
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Yes, he messaged me a few days ago when he paid back the principal. He said he's paying back the loans as large orders come in. He said it should have only taken another day or two to pay the rest off.
Also, SR staff have informed me that garnishment is impossible, which seems strange. The best they can do, I guess, is just destroy the vendor account.
Have another maths assignment due this week, so hopefully meth gets here soon!
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Yea that doesnt make much sense. Funds in escrow are in their hands, you'd think they'd have a way to withold them.
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He did however repay 20btc on the 30th but didnt notice until now because he sent it to my main account not the account I made for the loan. Just 370btc more :/
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Got a message from professortwak today explaining his situation. He has promised to make good on the loan over the next couple of days so I'm gonna give him the benefit of doubt for now and revoke my scam warning for the time being. Here's hoping for a happy ending for all.
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Also, SR staff have informed me that garnishment is impossible, which seems strange.
This is the reason I stated in my post earlier in the thread that it is important to ensure that SR staff agree to act as executors of the contract should one or both parties decide to break the terms contained therein.
The recommendations in that post should have been put in place before any monies were loaned to ProfessorTwak. I hope this has an amicable outcome for all but I'm beginning to think that if ProfessorTwak does repay awakened350 in full that it will be over a long period of time.
Regardless of his apparently lackluster communication towards his customers, communication about a large Bitcoin loan should take precedent as his reputation is on the line here.
I see that awakened350 has just posted that ProfessorTwak has been in touch today and has explained his situation. This is seemingly good news, but I still believe there is reason to be wary here, especially given ProfessorTwak's recent announcement of retirement.
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Hmmm Prof_T gave me a tracking no. which has not been scanned once or shown up in the system and the package hasn't arrived in over 2 weeks, sent express supposedly.
Also no contact in 7 days. Currently in resolution, hopefully get a full refund.
Damn shame.
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i think he'll come thru. slow as molasses but hell do it.. from what i hear hes not retiring fully just concentrating on 0pther things. i think he will be on the road in some form or fashion though... i dont think hes out to scam anyone. he maybe having a hard time transitioning his replacement.. wish you all the best
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Still waiting on interest and meth. I checked the DCN PT gave me and it checks out. Hopefully will get here this week!
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390btc is a lump.
i would have been so wary "investing" it into someone. (no offense to Twak what so ever.)
been watching this thread for a bit...
wish you the best of luck awakened!
/thumbs
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Yea that doesnt make much sense. Funds in escrow are in their hands, you'd think they'd have a way to withold them.
Maybe because that is customers money-not yours. It will risk causing them not to receive orders. No way any money in escrow should be garnished to pay you for a loan you took a risk on with possible great rewards and losses,were you planning to share the huge interest you stood to gain?
I sympathize with your situation but don't think it is ok to make others suffer because your business venture failed.
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Yea that doesnt make much sense. Funds in escrow are in their hands, you'd think they'd have a way to withold them.
Maybe because that is customers money-not yours. It will risk causing them not to receive orders. No way any money in escrow should be garnished to pay you for a loan you took a risk on with possible great rewards and losses,were you planning to share the huge interest you stood to gain?
I sympathize with your situation but don't think it is ok to make others suffer because your business venture failed.
+1
true words, true words.
if you're not going to give us your profits.. don't brush off your failures.
we don't deserve them.
/thumbs
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Still waiting for 15 BTC interest and meth. I've received multiple orders from the USA made more than a week after my meth order with PT.
I'm sure Awakened meant that the money should only be garnished after the customers finalise.
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Still waiting for 15 BTC interest and meth. I've received multiple orders from the USA made more than a week after my meth order with PT.
I'm sure Awakened meant that the money should only be garnished after the customers finalise.
Just because customers have finalized does not mean they have received their orders or that the orders have even been shipped. FE is par for the course in scams,international and orders which require funds beforehand to pay for their procurement and shipment. Garnishment for the benefit of one individual=unfair to customers, period. I would compare it to be much like privatization of bank profits and nationalizing losses with bank bailouts.
One thing I would agree to is a freezing of his account to force some sort of explanation and resolution to all customers.
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Still waiting for 15 BTC interest and meth. I've received multiple orders from the USA made more than a week after my meth order with PT.
I'm sure Awakened meant that the money should only be garnished after the customers finalise.
Just because customers have finalized does not mean they have received their orders or that the orders have even been shipped. FE is par for the course in scams,international and orders which require funds beforehand to pay for their procurement and shipment. Garnishment for the benefit of one individual=unfair to customers, period. I would compare it to be much like privatization of bank profits and nationalizing losses with bank bailouts.
There was never any agreement by SR Administrative staff to act as mediators or enforcers of this contract, therefore there is nothing they can do here. I recommended to both parties in a previous post that it should be checked with SR staff first that they'd be willing / able to do this, but apparently no discussion took place about it.
It is essentially a case of awakened350 finalising early, and as such, is out of the hands of SR staff. Again, I hope it all works out, but such is the risk we take if we finalise, as must be done with loans.
One thing I would agree to is a freezing of his account to force some sort of explanation and resolution to all customers.
As mentioned above, SR have no right to freeze the account as a result of unpaid loans as this was not agreed to by SR admins. Cases of FE take things entirely out of the hands of SR staff. There is no justification to freeze a vendor's account unless there is proof of them scamming buyers. There does seem to be something up here, and I'm sure if it's an instance whereby a large number of users who stayed within escrow are not getting their products then SR staff will step in; however, we cannot cry 'scam' without proof, and it may just be a case of some packages going missing in transit.
Either way SR staff have no say in whether or not one member can loan another money in exchange for a promise of repayment with interest.
The loans, though listed on SR, were finalised, which by it's very definition means that the transaction or process has come to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. As far as SR is concerned, the transaction was successful.
If a large number of within escrow orders don't show up, or a large number of finalised and in-escrow orders don't show up, then SR will look into the situation and take appropriate action. Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope.
- grahamgreene
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superduper, should have known id find you here lol, jk.
grahamgreene is bang on. this is not a deal that SR was making a commission on or that they agreed to host. they are not the morality/justice/fairness police. they oversee deals they are paid to oversee, they cant control everyone.
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"therefore there is nothing they can do here"
Illogical, even if the assumption is granted that there was not even an implicit agreement. Your excuse is a cop-out.
"is out of the hands of SR staff"
No it's not. SR has records of all the transactions and sales.
"there is proof of them scamming buyers"
There is in the records. There have been no repayment transactions.
"Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope."
SR facilitates them buy having a whole section dedicated to them.
"this is not a deal that SR was making a commission on or that they agreed to host"
I disagree on both counts. SR made a large commission on a large transaction. They implicitly agree to host it by having a section dedicated to loans, and accepting commission on the product.
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Electro ... is there a listing for this loan ? If so, then your right its up to SR to enforce the terms.
But I dont think there was a listing that corresponding with the loan ... just a post here telling forum visitors this was transpiring.
Your right in cases where the loans are documented on the SR site and they make a commission, thats something they have to watch.
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Fe'd 50% for 1/2o with twack, tracking never worked. Finally got the other half to resolution and got that back twak said he'd sort me out with the 50% I FE'd for, has only been a day but I'm pretty convinced I ain't gettin shit.
DO NOT FE it's that easy. American meth vendors on here seem to be complete sociopaths.
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Electro ... is there a listing for this loan ? If so, then your right its up to SR to enforce the terms.
But I dont think there was a listing that corresponding with the loan ... just a post here telling forum visitors this was transpiring.
Your right in cases where the loans are documented on the SR site and they make a commission, thats something they have to watch.
There was in fact a listing on SR that we both purchased (well I did at least) so SR is making a commission on this. SRs policy is not to finalize early which I encourage all of my customers to follow but that policy clearly cant work with a loan so it is our responsibility to do the best research we can to ensure that the debt will be repaid. SR has been helpful and working with us but at this point it seems like they cant or wont do much more than contact twak and possibly suspend the account if he starts scamming others. However through all of this SR support has seemed to indicate that they believe twak will repay so maybe they know something we don't and maybe this will all end well. Who knows at this point.
As for the people saying that nobody should be punished other than those involved. I agree entirely I made the choice to take this risk and I do not expect any bail outs. What I was referring to when I said we could be repaid out of the escrow money I mean that SR is in control of the escrow so they could hold it until it was finalized by the buyer and then give it to us instead of releasing it to twak. No changes in the escrow or buyer safety except it would go to the lenders and not to twak.
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Said he'd refund me, now I'm getting the old silent treatment. Honestly I've not had a single good experience with any meth vendor from the USA. WTF is wrong with these people?
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Hi Electrofermion,
I'll address the rebuttal of my own statements, the final statement quoted was not mine.
"therefore there is nothing they can do here"
Illogical, even if the assumption is granted that there was not even an implicit agreement. Your excuse is a cop-out.
There was no implicit agreement that SR Admins would enforce the terms of the contract. The logic holds fast then that there is nothing they can do here (regarding seizing ProfessorTwak's SR account - I believe it is obvious what I was referring to when my quote is read within it's surrounding context) to satisfy the terms of the contract written up and agreed to on the forum. The SR vendor : buyer contract does still stand regardless, though that is also affected by the fact that these transactions were Finalised Early.
"is out of the hands of SR staff"
No it's not. SR has records of all the transactions and sales.
The fact that SR has records of the transactions and sales does not negate my point that it "is out of the hands of SR staff"; any early finalisation is considered out of the hands of SR staff as the transaction is considered completed once the "Finalize" button is hit.
"there is proof of them scamming buyers"
There is in the records. There have been no repayment transactions.
Repayments can be from any source, specifically a wallet outside of Silk Road's own system, therefore making this a moot point - even if there were repayment transactions, SR may not have any records of them regardless. ProfessorTwak could simply get a new Bitcoin address / instawallet, send the money there from his other address and claim that it's your Bitcoin address and that he's repaid in full. Blockchain records wouldn't be any use there as it would just seem to back up his claim. The only way records would exist within SR is if the money was remitted directly to the creditors SR account, or sent to their SR Bitcoin address. As mentioned, these are not the only methods of payment available so records are a moot point.
"Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope."
SR facilitates them buy having a whole section dedicated to them.
SR does facilitate loans, but again taken in the context that it was written, loans are out of SR's scope in an enforcement sense once they're finalised.
I hope that ProfessorTwak pays yourself, awakened350 and any others that may be involved, but to suggest that Silk Road has some sort of responsibility in ensuring that that happens doesn't make sense - as is stated everywhere, FE is a bad idea and SR has no power to help once FE takes place. I understand that FE is essential for loans, but loans must be looked at as in investment and with investments you never invest more than you can afford to lose, and you should expect to lose it all with any returns being a bonus.
Still though, it is a very shitty situation and I hope it can be resolved satisfactorily.
There was in fact a listing on SR that we both purchased (well I did at least) so SR is making a commission on this. SRs policy is not to finalize early which I encourage all of my customers to follow but that policy clearly cant work with a loan so it is our responsibility to do the best research we can to ensure that the debt will be repaid. SR has been helpful and working with us but at this point it seems like they cant or wont do much more than contact twak and possibly suspend the account if he starts scamming others. However through all of this SR support has seemed to indicate that they believe twak will repay so maybe they know something we don't and maybe this will all end well. Who knows at this point.
As for the people saying that nobody should be punished other than those involved. I agree entirely I made the choice to take this risk and I do not expect any bail outs. What I was referring to when I said we could be repaid out of the escrow money I mean that SR is in control of the escrow so they could hold it until it was finalized by the buyer and then give it to us instead of releasing it to twak. No changes in the escrow or buyer safety except it would go to the lenders and not to twak.
The above hits the nail on the head - FE is the issue here, and the reason that SR is relatively powerless in this situation. The suggestion that SR use any funds coming out of escrow to satisfy the debt isn't a bad idea, but could possibly lead to a level of scamming, selective or otherwise, as the vendor would know they wouldn't be getting paid for the products sent out. I don't want to tarnish ProfessorTwak's name by saying this WOULD happen, only that it is a possibility.
It would also set a dangerous precedent of SR Administrative staff acting as regulators / market enforcers, something that DPR abhors and something that has no place in an agorism based free market. The burden and responsibility lies on each of us to ensure that we are comfortable making the purchases and investments that we make here, and to realise that everything may not go as expected. That is what the escrow system is in place for, and as awakened350 has stated above, all should stay within the safety of it. Granted in the situation of a loan it cannot be used but you realise this when you're making the commitment to the loan in the first place. As a direct result of that, SR has no responsibility to sort out unpaid loans - if he starts scamming others then yes, they will take action, but their hands are tied at the moment as they did not agree to act as executors / enforcers of the terms of the private contract between ProfessorTwak and his creditors posted here in this very thread.
- grahamgreene
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Said he'd refund me, now I'm getting the old silent treatment. Honestly I've not had a single good experience with any meth vendor from the USA. WTF is wrong with these people?
...meth?
/thumbs
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"therefore there is nothing they can do here"
Illogical, even if the assumption is granted that there was not even an implicit agreement. Your excuse is a cop-out.
"is out of the hands of SR staff"
No it's not. SR has records of all the transactions and sales.
"there is proof of them scamming buyers"
There is in the records. There have been no repayment transactions.
"Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope."
SR facilitates them buy having a whole section dedicated to them.
"this is not a deal that SR was making a commission on or that they agreed to host"
I disagree on both counts. SR made a large commission on a large transaction. They implicitly agree to host it by having a section dedicated to loans, and accepting commission on the product.
first off, just because X and Y bought listings A and B which both hold the same contract.(does it have the BTC that is loaned? if not then they are 0.0btc transactions((which obviously SR is not making money on.)))
AND... if you are sending money OOE.. and you go talk to SR about it, chances are they will either:
A. say "sorry, please use escrow."
B. byebye account.
i would say don't loan heavy amounts of BTC.. UNLESS.. you *know* this person, but then again we're all on an anonymous network so ANYONE and EVERYONE can be so cool until it comes time to call the reaper.
anyways, sorry for rambling on..
but i don't see DPR or anyone on SR helping.. because like it has been said so many times before..
this was not a "listing" bought and "not received".
/thumbs
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Said he'd refund me, now I'm getting the old silent treatment. Honestly I've not had a single good experience with any meth vendor from the USA. WTF is wrong with these people?
I feel your pain my friend. Lots of bullshit in the meth scene on SR recently.
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Said he'd refund me, now I'm getting the old silent treatment. Honestly I've not had a single good experience with any meth vendor from the USA. WTF is wrong with these people?
I feel your pain my friend. Lots of bullshit in the meth scene on SR recently.
maybe because trailer parks run that shit. :(
bad choice of drugs but i don't judge! i am not a stimulant-type. :)
hope all works out with your endeavors!
/thumbs
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"therefore there is nothing they can do here"
Illogical, even if the assumption is granted that there was not even an implicit agreement. Your excuse is a cop-out.
"is out of the hands of SR staff"
No it's not. SR has records of all the transactions and sales.
"there is proof of them scamming buyers"
There is in the records. There have been no repayment transactions.
"Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope."
SR facilitates them buy having a whole section dedicated to them.
"this is not a deal that SR was making a commission on or that they agreed to host"
I disagree on both counts. SR made a large commission on a large transaction. They implicitly agree to host it by having a section dedicated to loans, and accepting commission on the product.
first off, just because X and Y bought listings A and B which both hold the same contract.(does it have the BTC that is loaned? if not then they are 0.0btc transactions((which obviously SR is not making money on.)))
AND... if you are sending money OOE.. and you go talk to SR about it, chances are they will either:
A. say "sorry, please use escrow."
B. byebye account.
i would say don't loan heavy amounts of BTC.. UNLESS.. you *know* this person, but then again we're all on an anonymous network so ANYONE and EVERYONE can be so cool until it comes time to call the reaper.
anyways, sorry for rambling on..
but i don't see DPR or anyone on SR helping.. because like it has been said so many times before..
this was not a "listing" bought and "not received".
/thumbs
They were 50btc slot listings so I believe he bought 1 listing and I bought the other 6. So again, they are making a pretty nice commission.
As for the person that said twak could repay the loan to another btc address and claim it was ours? It was in the agreement that he would send the fund to the alternate account I made "twakloan" so he would be failing to satisfy the terms of the contract if he did so.
As far as I can tell what it comes down to is if you give a loan on SR there is nothing they can do to help you if it goes bad.This being the case I don't think the loan section should exist, since SR gets a cut without being responsible for anything since we must finalize early on a loan. There is then no reason not to to send money direct outside of escrow.
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Still waiting for 15 BTC interest and meth. I've received multiple orders from the USA made more than a week after my meth order with PT.
I'm sure Awakened meant that the money should only be garnished after the customers finalise.
Just because customers have finalized does not mean they have received their orders or that the orders have even been shipped. FE is par for the course in scams,international and orders which require funds beforehand to pay for their procurement and shipment. Garnishment for the benefit of one individual=unfair to customers, period. I would compare it to be much like privatization of bank profits and nationalizing losses with bank bailouts.
There was never any agreement by SR Administrative staff to act as mediators or enforcers of this contract, therefore there is nothing they can do here. I recommended to both parties in a previous post that it should be checked with SR staff first that they'd be willing / able to do this, but apparently no discussion took place about it.
It is essentially a case of awakened350 finalising early, and as such, is out of the hands of SR staff. Again, I hope it all works out, but such is the risk we take if we finalise, as must be done with loans.
One thing I would agree to is a freezing of his account to force some sort of explanation and resolution to all customers.
As mentioned above, SR have no right to freeze the account as a result of unpaid loans as this was not agreed to by SR admins. Cases of FE take things entirely out of the hands of SR staff. There is no justification to freeze a vendor's account unless there is proof of them scamming buyers. There does seem to be something up here, and I'm sure if it's an instance whereby a large number of users who stayed within escrow are not getting their products then SR staff will step in; however, we cannot cry 'scam' without proof, and it may just be a case of some packages going missing in transit.
Either way SR staff have no say in whether or not one member can loan another money in exchange for a promise of repayment with interest.
The loans, though listed on SR, were finalised, which by it's very definition means that the transaction or process has come to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. As far as SR is concerned, the transaction was successful.
If a large number of within escrow orders don't show up, or a large number of finalised and in-escrow orders don't show up, then SR will look into the situation and take appropriate action. Loans, though, are essentially out of SR's scope.
- grahamgreene
I would argue that failure to repay a loan that was made out in the open with clear proof of what the terms were, when it was due, and failure to repay the loan is as clear cut as scamming gets. Customers can lie and say they never received a package but in this case SR can simply check our account records to see that he did not repay the loan and is now a week overdue which puts him in default.
As I said in my last post, if SR doesn't want to get involved in any such loan cases there should not be a loan category that they get commission from.
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someone load me .10 btc :(
/thumbs
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someone load me .10 btc :(
/thumbs
Cheers!
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They were 50btc slot listings so I believe he bought 1 listing and I bought the other 6. So again, they are making a pretty nice commission.
As for the person that said twak could repay the loan to another btc address and claim it was ours? It was in the agreement that he would send the fund to the alternate account I made "twakloan" so he would be failing to satisfy the terms of the contract if he did so.
As far as I can tell what it comes down to is if you give a loan on SR there is nothing they can do to help you if it goes bad.This being the case I don't think the loan section should exist, since SR gets a cut without being responsible for anything since we must finalize early on a loan. There is then no reason not to to send money direct outside of escrow.
That was me that said ProfessorTwak could repay the loan to another Bitcoin address; I know that the agreement stated he would send the fund to "twakloan", but you stated in a recent post that he remitted a certain amount of Bitcoin to your awakened350 account (or similar.) Having done that, he already failed to satisfy the terms of the contract, and even if he'd paid you back in full you could still demand garnishment of his account for breach of contract. I'm not saying that you would do that, of course, just that you could have done so.
However, the problem lies with the actual contract that was laid out on the forums; I recommended that SR Administrative staff be contacted and asked to act as the executor of the contract should the terms fail to be met by either party. Upon their agreement to do so, the contract would have become binding as it would have had an executor with the power to enforce the terms. This didn't happen, so in the eyes of Silk Road and indeed in any technical sense, the contract has no enforceable properties and is essentially a gentleman's agreement relying upon the honor of the parties for its fulfillment.
I agree with your argument regarding the loan section, it does seem unfair that SR gets a cut without having responsibility for the loan, but the same is the case for every item on the site for which buyers choose to FE. They get their commission, and if the buyer finalises early, they are absolved of all responsibility. If the buyer stays within escrow, their responsibility remains.
As a result I do not agree that the category should not exist. People tend to forget that this is an agorist marketplace; as such, and by it's very definition, it is free from regulation and restriction (apart from the obvious restrictions on CP, weaponry, and items whose purpose is to harm others.) It can be argued that such restrictions fly in the face of an agorist marketplace, but that's a different discussion for a different day.
Loan schemes (I prefer to refer to them as investments, because they seem to share a similar level of risk) are there for those who wish to avail of them. SR (and indeed you, yourself) warn people not to FE; the reason being that when they do there is very little chance of recompense.
I wish it weren't the case, but this is simply another case of FE going wrong - nothing more, nothing less.
There is reason not to send money OOE, even for loan purposes; Silk Road deserves it's cut of all transactions, be they for digital goods, physical products or indeed loan agreements.
There is nothing stopping both users seeing each other's email addresses and arranging a loan off-site wallet to wallet; however, they won't be able to come to the forum to complain if they get scammed, or advise others to stay away from Person X.
Finalising early is essentially the same as doing the above; it is performing an out of escrow transaction as you are not protected by the escrow system.
Perhaps there's a way that loans could be made using the SR cash advance system, with a large loan staying in escrow and the vendor using the cash advance feature to obtain a percentage of it? The entire loan amount would not be released from escrow until a transaction record shows that X amount of Bitcoin (the entire loan + interest) is remitted to the buyer's account. The buyer could then release the amount in escrow and the vendor would receive the full amount, less the cash advance fee. It would also be impossible to scam the vendor as there would be a transaction record in SR's system of the amount being repaid. Granted the initial loan amount would have to be quite large to enable the vendor to take enough from the cash advance feature but all of the buyer's Bitcoin would be protected in escrow should the vendor decide to run off with his cash advance money. Maybe a finely tuned version of this is something that vendors could bring up with DPR?
I would argue that failure to repay a loan that was made out in the open with clear proof of what the terms were, when it was due, and failure to repay the loan is as clear cut as scamming gets. Customers can lie and say they never received a package but in this case SR can simply check our account records to see that he did not repay the loan and is now a week overdue which puts him in default.
As I said in my last post, if SR doesn't want to get involved in any such loan cases there should not be a loan category that they get commission from.
I do completely agree with you on the above but Silk Road's responsibility for transactions rests entirely within the confines of the main Silk Road site itself. It does look like a clear case of scamming to me, but as you said, customers can lie - which is why scammers aren't banned after the first few scam reports. As I stated earlier in the post, it would be possible for there to be no transaction records of repayments as ProfessorTwak could have sent the Bitcoin to your Bitcoin client itself, or indeed to his own in order to create a record in the Blockchain of X amount of Bitcoin being sent and received. It would then essentially be one person's word against the others.
Again, the terms of the contract here on the forum stating that remittance would be to the 'twakloan' account were not binding as SR Admins weren't contacted to act as executors. If his terms of sale on the actual listing stated that remittance would be to your SR account then you would be able to prove via a lack of an SR record that the money wasn't paid back, but if the terms didn't state that then there is no actual proof that you weren't paid back. (For the record I believe that you haven't been paid back, and have indeed been scammed by ProfessorTwak.)
It is unfortunately a case where Silk Road can say "We advise everybody to stay within the escrow system; there's nothing we can do unless we get more reports of scamming."
I do hope that there is some other reason why ProfessorTwak hasn't paid you back yet, but the chances of that are looking more and more slim every day. :(
- grahamgreene
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seems he's been down graded to user
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/search_results/professor+twak/0
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seems he's been down graded to user
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/search_results/professor+twak/0
professortwak's vendor account is still open; his username is all one word rather than two separate ones:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/3e4d0b2cee
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I still haven't received meth or 15 BTC interest. Meth was the main drug I was looking forward to getting, but first I had to wait a month to not get anything from MarijuanaIsMyMuse, and now it's been more than a few weeks with PT. Wonder where I will sink my next $150. Damn meth dealers!
At least I have a bunch of other stuff from honest vendors. Tried ketamine today; very relaxing and introspective, not trippy like shrooms though. I need to learn to take bigger doses my first time! (Always too anxious.)
While there is no *technical* obligation for SR to step in here, I hope this serves as an example to others that SR may not act in good faith despite receiving commission and having a loans section.
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Waiting on outcome.
Yet to be repaid the 50% I FE'd on. Awaiting this. Also International shipping fee and money lost because of no hedging in escrow.
Awating explanation, will update
UPDATE: 0 Contact and ignoring my messages for 5 days.
Less he wishes to contact me and honor himself and his agreement.
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DO NEVER FINALIZE EARLY ORDERS WITH PROFESSORTWAK !!!
I ordered 1G meth end of June, just before leaving on vacation. In order not to injure PT I finalized the order early. The order was marked shipped immediately. On my return, nothing in the mailbox. After having contacted PT, he told me he had problems with some sending, then he assured me send the command quickly.
Since it responds to my email once or twice a month and I still have not received anything.
I made more than 44 orders for about 500 btc. I finalised early the greater part of the order (except with some new vendors).
I happened to have some problems, always solved in a good mood with all sellers.
Professortwak is not an honest seller. He kept my BTC. He did not refunded. He sent me nothing. He did not read my last mail (23 days old).
PT is probably the last person with whom you may want to do business.
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g of meth finally arrived! Still waiting on interest, though. Just pulled an all-nighter, so crystals will have to wait 'till tomorrow. :)
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Well after another week of no responce from the professor I contacted SR support again and they have revoked his vendor account privileges. So I guess thats the end of that unless he decides to make things right doesn't seem like anything else can be done.