Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: John Humphreys on February 03, 2012, 03:30 pm
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I was wondering if anybody knows of any research that has been done about Silk Road?
Context: I'm currently doing my economics PhD, and part of my thesis will be looking at emergent market institutions... which basically means I'll be looking at why people respect private property and contracts, even when there is nobody to enforce the rules. Obviously, this is very relevant for SR since there is no government here, and yet the market exists and seems to be growing.
So my plan is to hang around the SR world looking for useable data on how effective this non-government market system is working. At some point I hope to conduct a survey of buyers and sellers asking about your experiences. If I'm lucky, I might also get funding to run some experiments on SR, where I'll pay you to play some (fully legal) games.
If anybody knows of any other similar research that has been done about Silk Road, I would love to hear about it. You can message me here, or e-mail me directly on john.humphreys99@gmail.com. Suffice to say, all individual correspondence will be kept in strict confidence (which is a requirement of my research)... and you're still anonymous so you're safe anyway.
btw, this is my real name... I am not anonymous on SR. I have done this so that you can be more confident that I'm dealing honestly. Obviously then I don't plan on buying or selling any drugs (or anything else). You can find out about me at my website: www.johnhumphreys.com.au
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Having made several purchases on Silk Road myself and having never been scammed or had any negative experiences I would say that everything in an economy with no government and regulation is trust. But not trust in terms of trusting the vendors you're buying from, but trusting fellow buyers and their reviews of a service or product.
Anyone who is willing to take the risk to buy drugs online bases who they buy off on the reviews of others, while fully bearing in mind that it is possible that the reviews could be misleading or even created by the vendor. But obviously as these reviews pile up and there isn't any/many corresponding negative reviews - buyers can then put their trust within the vendor too and make a purchase.
And new vendors can still make their way into the economy too through offering low quantities at low prices which encourage many to take a small risk, and if everything goes well with that vendor, in turn make a bigger risk by purchasing a larger quantity the next time. Of course the fee to start up a vendor account again increases ones confidence in a new vendor as it would seem unusual for someone to risk that money to scam a couple of people when they can't even be sure their scam will work.
I'm still new here though - you'd be best getting a more in-depth review of the trust which allows the Silk Road economy to work from a more experienced member.
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Here too. I'm from Germany and I received every order, national & international, so far. Everything went smooth, just like eBay or Amazon.
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...yeah right....don't you work for the BBC..!?
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Instead of reacting with hostility, perhaps we should take this opportunity to give someone who may be well connected in a journalism sense a real idea of what things are like around here; that we're not out to shoot people and eat their babies, and that we have a real community here built on trust, where issues such as drug safety and purity are frequently addressed to help ensure that people use their drugs safely.
This isn't an underworld black market. Whilst being the anti-thesis of that, it's also the evolved, more intelligent, and safer descendant of it. It's a 'commune' where people are free to do whatever they want to their own bodies, and by doing so responsibly, demonstrate that a self-regulated drug market on the deepweb is FAR safer for all concerned than real world drug markets. We generally look out for each other here, and as SR has previously stated, this isn't just a place to buy your medicines of choice online - it's a revolution.
From a social/economic point of view, society can learn a lot from the economics and social concepts at play here on the Silk Road, possibly resulting in new economic systems being implemented in countries around the world. All big talk, yes, but every tree starts out as a seed.
Perhaps if the general population can be re-assured that self-regulated markets like ours aren't what the current media stories portray them as, then self-regulated markets - both legal and illegal - may become more palatable and less of a threat to citizens (voters), who directly influence the manifestos and law-making of democratically elected governments.
Just my 0.02 cents.
- grahamgreene
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Here too. I'm from Germany and I received every order, national & international, so far. Everything went smooth, just like eBay or Amazon.
Something i have to disagree with is that Ebay (especially using paypal) & amazon are not a 'smooth' and 'efficient' as SR is. The amount of problems i've had in the past have been awful with ebay especially. And as for scams on ebay.... WOW! So many. I only got scammed twice when i started up (2x 100 dizzies so not much) and had to do about 6 re-sends since. Yes, I MAY have been scamming for a few extra but on the whole, SR is a better place to buy ANYTHING than any site on the 'normal' web. Your less likely get into 'flame wars' than pretty much ALL of the 'normal' web too. The community here isnt just polite and friendly (in most cases) but also for a bunch of so called drug taking renegades there's alot more intelligence and good advice to be taken here as well. It might be that drugs open the mind and promote open thinking. I mean, Open thinking isnt what the powers that be want is it ;)
The thing i would have to say about it all is why isnt the 'normal' web like SR? It should be! Why do we have to deal with BS from companies such as paypal and the likes. Infact, i dont really use the 'normal' web as much since SR. Or maybe its me loving the total randomness of conversations here :P
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...the naive here can cooperate and waste their time educating journalists, those of you think cooperating with them is going convince the general public you're dumber
than i thought.
- any drug related story ever covered has always had the same storyline, kids...drugs...illegal...bad...16yr old dead..tragedy....evil....
heard it once heard it 1000 times.
amen
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I fully understand your points, and they're very valid. Sensationalism sells more newspapers / gets an article more views - that's an unfortunate fact.
However, we may very well have the opportunity now to slide a little bit of truth in with the sensationalism.
Perhaps among the "kids can buy drugs anonymously" we might get "however, the recent articles about guns and weaponry being rampant on the Silk Road are far from true. In a recent poll conducted by this journalist, X amount of Silk Road's users opposed the sale of guns, and the general sentiment on the Silk Road forums is that even in an agarian oriented market, there must still be restrictions - whether to keep under the radar, or for users personal reasons, there is a 'lest it harm none' aspect to the operations in this free market. It's a market that takes drug sellers and drug users off the streets - reducing drug crime and deaths by taking drug gangs and local 'territory disputes' out of the equation, and freeing up law enforcement officers for more serious matters such as solving rapes and murders.
It begs the question: is the Silk Road really such a terrible thing, or is it something that we need to open up to and embrace the principles of? Do your research, dear reader, and come to your OWN conclusion!"
Journalists: feel free to use the above - it's already half sensationalised for you! :P
TravellingWithoutMoving, you have a point, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and we have to start somewhere!
Then again, maybe I'm just a whack-job idealist. :P
- grahamgreene
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...kids..underage....already suggested this point as i didn't think allowing 10yr olds to buy drugs here was a good idea, but very few seemed interested:-
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=8142.0
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As you said, impossible to police, and as Guybrush Threepwood stated, it'd work about as well as the age restriction on porn sites. Sure, SR could have a disclaimer but then again, what's the point? If Silk Road were a clearnet site then I'm sure there'd be disclaimers and age restrictions etc., but it's not, so it's not like its going to be taken down because it provided a means for minors to purchase drugs - as a porn site likely would be if it didn't implement age restrictions.
The point I was getting at in the last post was 'yes, its entirely possible that a 10 year old could manage to purchase some bitcoins, implement Tor and visit the Silk Road, buy some drugs, have them shipped to their parent's house and get all sorts of out of their mind - possible, though highly improbable.' Wouldn't it be better, considering this improbable yet possible scenario, for the positive aspects of the Silk Road to be presented alongside the negative points which will invariably be a part of the article anyway?
The negative points being brought up are sensationalist and improbable, but they're true. Its possible for kids to buy drugs on the deepweb. Its also possible (and a lot more probable) for kids to buy drugs from a guy on a street corner, and there's a large number of kids involved on some level in the drug trade - be it trafficking, selling, being runners etc. We need a responsible journalist / well positioned person to see that the probability of a kid ACTUALLY being able to buy drugs on here is virtually nil.
The deepweb drug trade is safer for kids because they're very unlikely to be able to access it, safer for teenagers who are looking to experiment because they know from previous buyers reviews that the product they're getting is of a high quality and less likely to be cut / mixed / sprayed with harmful substances, they're not going to get assaulted or robbed while trying to buy it, there's a drug safety forum that they can visit where actual drug users report their experiences and do's-and-don'ts, and safer for adults for the same reasons.
I think any journalist looking to present a news story about the Silk Road would do well in a personal capacity to present these positive facts alongside the negative facts. Controversy sells just as well as sensationalism! ;)
- grahamgreene
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Just like the fall of Death Metal....................
It comes with mainstreaming.
If SR wanted to be mainstream, maybe it'd be on the surface web???
Please leave the answers to these types of Q's to the Dread Pirate Roberts.
I ain't a genius, but for now, I agree with TWM. Fuck journalists at this point.
I got into creative writing, and journalism in HS, and guess what I found out?
Journalism IS creative writing.
I might change my mind if the Vice Guide To Everything wanted to do a piece.
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I think just the basic function of silk road prohibits young kids to buy anything on here. Just to get bitcoin for the first time on here was an accomplishment in itself. Older kids (15+) probably wouldn't have a problem figuring it out but at that age its probably cheaper and easier to find drugs at their high-school. For me it was sure as hell easier to find anything back when I was in high school. Now everyone has real jobs and families and I can't even find schwag in a city of a quarter million.
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The point I'm making about talking openly and on thread to journalists etc. is that they're going to write their articles regardless, so we might as well try to show them the positive points to go with the "negatives" in their pieces.
I do agree that specific questions etc. should be directed to SR (soon to be Dread Pirate Roberts although the name doesn't seem to be registered yet), but I think the community also has a lot to offer. Its one thing getting information from someone who's getting paid - its quite another thing to get information from the ones who are paying!
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As everyone's been saying, reviews are everything. Reviews are similar to how we gossip offline. If a seller rips somebody off on Silk Road, he gets a bad review and everybody knows. If a seller rips somebody off face to face, the victim will tell the community, and the scammer will be shunned.
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I sort of agree. The story is out there already so for more journalists to keep interviewing people is sort of pointless. It exists. You can find why people use it there are plenty of threads about it. Ultimately journalists have to sell their craft - that is the reality.
I will say this is different in the fact that it's for a research thesis.
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- thanks to those who have agreed / seen the light..
- what is the point or purpose of any of this sort of research :
- who conducts it?
- who is the target audience?
- what is their track record in this regard?
- where will the fruits of the research go, who has to gain from it..or more accurately for what purpose..?
- if i give of information what will you give me?!
- how does it affect you, or someone supposedly on your side but you have never met?
- if everyone could listen to the bbc 5live podcast covering the ""Darkweb" story and tell me you see by the interviewee question line and even with guests from
britcoin, a Tor developer, and a rouge buyer called 'David' despite their best efforts to describe the SR experience the interviewee's mindset nor understanding
is nowhere near mature enough to understand nor deal with it ?!
And this is Feb 2012 !
So if you had of contributed to or put effort into a reporters story, having listened to the the actual report would you have been happy that "justice had been done" ?!
at which point do you think its going to be discussed at the leglalising negotiation level ?! Answer, they don't want logic nor reason thrown at them bottomline.
Some select mainstream chat shows would be the only positive platform to get everyones views across and thats only because of the individual celebrity personality
and perhaps their position and role in society they are daring enough to meet outdated cultural values head on {as some of us are..}.
- the way forward, know what to say choose your time place and who you will discussing your points of view with.
{as does any IRA, political party, organised crime outfit, plane highjacker, hackers group..........granted you are all individuals and there is no direction from above..}
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...yeah right....don't you work for the BBC..!?
No -- I'm a PhD student at the University of Queensland (Australia). This is me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Humphreys_%28economist%29
You're probably thinking of John Humphrys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Humphrys
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Fuck those Cambodians. Pay my tuition, and I'll talk to you. lol
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John, I'd be interested in co-operating with your research.
As for your posts, here's my 2 cents:
It works without government, because it is a market of common interest. Buyers trust that other buyers have similar motivations and thus accurate feedback. Sellers don't operate under the fear of being sued having their payment revoked, as is the case with "governed" online markets, they operate on the highly competitive ratings - this has actually created a market where it is the seller's best interest to provide excellence with every transaction just to stay in business, unlike one on amazon who only has to provide enough to make a profit.
I think a more in-depth look at SR is much needed. A google search just turns up the same few articles, about a guy who bought acid and the oft repeated "amazon of illegal drugs"
If we saw more markets like this emerge, we may see the future of e-commerce - a small, dedicated market and community segregated by category, whose specialization prevents scalpers and scammers from thriving as they do on sites like amazon.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that SR is LESS anonymous than amazon from a buyer/seller perspective. You can create new accounts and identities on amazon so easily that having one tarnished with bad ratings doesn't hurt you. On SR, your account's identity is all you have - building a positive transaction history is the best way to keep doing business.