Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: hamlet on April 01, 2012, 03:41 pm
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Sorry if this is an obvious question and sorry if i sound like a cop.
I have been hypothetically growing dope for myself for a few years and currently i sell the
little i don't need at a silly price for safety and convenience. I understand that getting
to the point where I am a trusted vendor who operates optimally will be necessary before
this is an issue - but it would be nice to have some idea how one would turn SR bitcoins
into cash. Um, hypothetically.
I don't want to buy any proper drugs with the bitcoins mainly because selling them seems
the least secure thing to do with ones hypothetical time. I'm looking for the least risky
and most latent kind of ways that people have heard about people using successfully.
I am in the UK. Hypothetically.
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My preferred methods as a vendor. This might seem like overkill to you, but I do this once a week with several hundred to thousand dollars.
1) Withdraw my coins from SilkRoad to 5-10 instawallet addresses
2) Put coins through Bitcoin Fog for 24H
3) Withdraw to online wallets (Instawallet or Easywallet)
4) Send to desktop based wallet
5) Send to Intersango
6) Sell Coins on marketplace
7) Withdraw cash via BT
Here is a suggestion from Opi, another SR Vendor.
there is aurumxchange.com
you need a utitlity bill and a ID and they wil send you a prepaid visa, its AUTOmatically added cash you pay like 4% to transfer from BTC to USD
and its 25$ for the card
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My preferred methods as a vendor. This might seem like overkill to you, but I do this once a week with several hundred to thousand dollars.
1) Withdraw my coins from SilkRoad to 5-10 instawallet addresses
2) Put coins through Bitcoin Fog for 24H
3) Withdraw to online wallets (Instawallet or Easywallet)
4) Send to desktop based wallet
5) Send to Intersango
6) Sell Coins on marketplace
7) Withdraw cash via BT
You're losing some money through that system (especially if thousands), yet that sounds pretty secure to me.
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My preferred methods as a vendor. This might seem like overkill to you, but I do this once a week with several hundred to thousand dollars.
1) Withdraw my coins from SilkRoad to 5-10 instawallet addresses
2) Put coins through Bitcoin Fog for 24H
3) Withdraw to online wallets (Instawallet or Easywallet)
4) Send to desktop based wallet
5) Send to Intersango
6) Sell Coins on marketplace
7) Withdraw cash via BT
You're losing some money through that system (especially if thousands), yet that sounds pretty secure to me.
Do you have an alternative method you can share?
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My preferred methods as a vendor. This might seem like overkill to you, but I do this once a week with several hundred to thousand dollars.
1) Withdraw my coins from SilkRoad to 5-10 instawallet addresses
2) Put coins through Bitcoin Fog for 24H
3) Withdraw to online wallets (Instawallet or Easywallet)
4) Send to desktop based wallet
5) Send to Intersango
6) Sell Coins on marketplace
7) Withdraw cash via BT
You're losing some money through that system (especially if thousands), yet that sounds pretty secure to me.
You are losing 2-4% usually. Which can be anywhere from $20-$60 usually. However, this guarantees my anomynoity pretty much and I can actually use the BTC to pay for bills, groceries and more :)
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doesnt withdrawing to desktop purse, generating new purse number, sending to market place to sell,
isnt this all that is needed to clean?
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doesnt withdrawing to desktop purse, generating new purse number, sending to market place to sell,
isnt this all that is needed to clean?
Not even close, those transactions could easily be linked.
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doesnt withdrawing to desktop purse, generating new purse number, sending to market place to sell,
isnt this all that is needed to clean?
You also want to vary the amounts as well. If you withdraw 1045.654BTC from SR and 1045.654BTC turns up in your wallet, then its safe to assume that these amounts are linked. Washing BTC however can be as simple as trading random amounts between different wallets on Virtual Machines. Completely washing BTC uses a coin tumbler like Bitcoin Fog as the initial transaction path for the coins ends at the tumbler. You are actually given someone else's coins from the tumbler.
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oh ok, good job we cash out only through WU hah ha
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This will leave you with 'clean' coins in the sense that they can't be linked to drugs trade. These are not coins that are 'washed', so if the amounts are large enough (depending on different laws, etc), you'll have to explain your earnings to the IRS/HMRC/tax dude. This can become kinda tricky (although buying and selling BTC would be a pretty good cover). Anyone got some info on how they handle that?
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This will leave you with 'clean' coins in the sense that they can't be linked to drugs trade. These are not coins that are 'washed', so if the amounts are large enough (depending on different laws, etc), you'll have to explain your earnings to the IRS/HMRC/tax dude. This can become kinda tricky (although buying and selling BTC would be a pretty good cover). Anyone got some info on how they handle that?
Buy a car wash??? Life imitating art :)
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Ha! At least i don't have a crackhead partner ;D
Mainly I was wondering if there was an easy way to use the coins to pay for groceries etc and it seems if i research the methods described I would be able to. Many thanks for the detailed replies so far - anyone with any other ideas or tips are always welcome :)
Seems i have a lot to learn and will get Toring - thanks again Silk Road.
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PM'ed you Reseller
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"7) Withdraw cash via BT"
Apologies - can someone tell me what BT is? I assume it is not British Telecom.
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"7) Withdraw cash via BT"
Apologies - can someone tell me what BT is? I assume it is not British Telecom.
BT means Bank Transfer pal. :)
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Ah, i see - thank you <3. Sorry for all my questions, I am rather new to all of this.
I guess I was foolish to think it would be possible to turn bitcoins into cash money without using a bank account! I would be too wary of the taxman to have money coming into my bank account since I would have no way to explain it.
Is it possible to BT to prepaid anonymous cards one could pay for stuff with? I would assume not.
What methods are there to turn bitcoins into cash without using a bank account? Do people sell gold on SR?
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There are various exchangers that will give you cash in mail, WU/MG transfer, etc. for bitcoins. I don't know why you think it's limited to bank transfers.
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Cash in mail for bitcoins sounds good. Could someone point me toward a site that would send me pound sterling for bitcoins? A quick Google only found bitcoin vendors.
Thank you again for all your help.
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https://intersango.com/
These guys. :)
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there is many emoneys which been around much longer then bitcoins and many services which offers debit cards to get cash out for those emoney and commission quite low. going that route you, will clean bitcoins same time as you will be cashing liberty for example. and it is "type and go to ATM" operation, with no waiting for bank transfers and cash in envelope. I found this suits me best.
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My preferred methods as a vendor. This might seem like overkill to you, but I do this once a week with several hundred to thousand dollars.
1) Withdraw my coins from SilkRoad to 5-10 instawallet addresses
2) Put coins through Bitcoin Fog for 24H
3) Withdraw to online wallets (Instawallet or Easywallet)
4) Send to desktop based wallet
5) Send to Intersango
6) Sell Coins on marketplace
7) Withdraw cash via BT
Here is a suggestion from Opi, another SR Vendor.
there is aurumxchange.com
you need a utitlity bill and a ID and they wil send you a prepaid visa, its AUTOmatically added cash you pay like 4% to transfer from BTC to USD
and its 25$ for the card
The only flaw I can see is your last step which is the bank transfer.
How are you managing this without using your real name?
Also, your using Intersango. From what I've read you should be very careful using this particular BTC exchange. It appears they're likely to bend over backwards for LE if an investigation takes place.
So, does anyone know how to cash out anonymously?
Lots of people recommend pre-paid debit cards, ones where you can top-up etc. But places like Mt Gox and Intersango require info like your IBAN number, bank acc + sort details.
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I had a poke around Intersangos site and saw nothing about cash in the mail? If someone could post a direct link to a site where they offer cash in the mail for bitcoins i would appreciate it.
there is many emoneys which been around much longer then bitcoins and many services which offers debit cards to get cash out for those emoney and commission quite low. going that route you, will clean bitcoins same time as you will be cashing liberty for example. and it is "type and go to ATM" operation, with no waiting for bank transfers and cash in envelope. I found this suits me best.
This is more the kind of thing i was thinking about. I'm more than happy to pay a few points a couple of times if it increases my anonymity. And waiting is always a bit rubbish. Could you point me towards the established emoney brands and the debit card providers who allow you to be nameless? Thanks for posting this its exactly what I was hoping for.
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I had a poke around Intersangos site and saw nothing about cash in the mail? If someone could post a direct link to a site where they offer cash in the mail for bitcoins i would appreciate it.
there is many emoneys which been around much longer then bitcoins and many services which offers debit cards to get cash out for those emoney and commission quite low. going that route you, will clean bitcoins same time as you will be cashing liberty for example. and it is "type and go to ATM" operation, with no waiting for bank transfers and cash in envelope. I found this suits me best.
This is more the kind of thing i was thinking about. I'm more than happy to play a few points a couple of times if it increases my anonymity. And waiting is always a bit rubbish. Could you point me towards the established emoney brands and the debit card providers who allow you to be nameless? Thanks for posting this its exactly what I was hoping for.
Liberty Reserve, Pecunix, etc. There's a lot out there.
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I have to disagree with resellers method although it's good it's too lengthy.
Get an LR account.
Withdraw bitcoins from SilkRoad to your own wallet or if your paranoid another wallet on a virtual machine, generate new bitcoin address for every transaction.
Then exchange coins to LR.
Then exchange LR to VCC.
Then buy stuff online for yourself OR buy then sell the stuff and maybe even make a profit with ebay selling or whatever.
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Then exchange LR to VCC.
I assume this is not the Vancouver Community College ;P Could you tell me what it is?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
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Then exchange LR to VCC.
I assume this is not the Vancouver Community College ;P Could you tell me what it is?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
Visa Credit Card - may be
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I have to disagree with resellers method although it's good it's too lengthy.
Get an LR account.
Withdraw bitcoins from SilkRoad to your own wallet or if your paranoid another wallet on a virtual machine, generate new bitcoin address for every transaction.
Then exchange coins to LR.
Then exchange LR to VCC.
Then buy stuff online for yourself OR buy then sell the stuff and maybe even make a profit with ebay selling or whatever.
Actually you if you get a genuinely issued passport with an alternate identity on it, you can open up an account fine and you'll be cushty. Offshore banks are good too.
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Then exchange LR to VCC.
I assume this is not the Vancouver Community College ;P Could you tell me what it is?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
Visa Credit Card - may be
Virtual Credit Card.
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Then exchange LR to VCC.
I assume this is not the Vancouver Community College ;P Could you tell me what it is?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
Visa Credit Card - may be
Virtual Credit Card.
thanks, never used virtual one, can it be used to get cash too, same like from plastic?
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Then exchange LR to VCC.
I assume this is not the Vancouver Community College ;P Could you tell me what it is?
Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
Visa Credit Card - may be
Virtual Credit Card.
thanks, never used virtual one, can it be used to get cash too, same like from plastic?
It can be used for everything a real one can except in-store purchases.
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I have to disagree with resellers method although it's good it's too lengthy.
Get an LR account.
Withdraw bitcoins from SilkRoad to your own wallet or if your paranoid another wallet on a virtual machine, generate new bitcoin address for every transaction.
Then exchange coins to LR.
Then exchange LR to VCC.
Then buy stuff online for yourself OR buy then sell the stuff and maybe even make a profit with ebay selling or whatever.
I like this method. I'd suggest still putting your bitcoins through bitfog, but that's easily incorporated in this method.
Two problems with this method, though:
1) You can't use your virtual credit card for everyday shopping (gas, food) or even paying your rent. A physical anonymous card is possible through some shady countries and similar shady lawyers ;).
2) I haven't been able to find a virtual credit card that is anonymous and doesn't make me loose 1/3 of the money I put in. Any pointers to which one I should use?
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Oops, I just made a thread but after reading every post this is the same topic:
''I opened this thread not for free advice but because everybody who has BTC has the opportunity to get taxfree income but how is this possible in a brilliant way? I was thinking to apply for a prepaid debit or creditcard service and use an ATM to withdraw everything after selling the BTC for a low fee. Of course google came right up with some services but is there anyone who want to discuss this or has any idea, using bank transfer will make you pay taxes in a way after a few years 100%. Please share. ''
I came across bitcoin debit card from panama city which is very interesting but not this part: ''In order to comply with the anti-money laundering and anti-terrorism legislation, including the Know Your Customer (KYC) rules we are required to ask for copys of identification documents. ''
I'll keep looking...
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Those identification documents are pretty easily forged.
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"7) Withdraw cash via BT"
Apologies - can someone tell me what BT is? I assume it is not British Telecom.
BT Infinity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bank transfer haha.
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Another idea, but maybe one that's more for the future:
You are your own currency exchange now. Sell Bitcoins to people for cash, in person. Once Silk Road gets more widely known, there may suddenly be a lot more willing f2f buyers than you would have thought...
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Chaumian Blinding
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Chaumian Blinding
I know it's in the spec but I don't think it's actually been implemented yet.
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so.... i get my btc's through intersango.... in order to fill my intersango account, i have to finance with dwolla.... it's cheap and it's safe, but the problem has always been time.... from dwolla to btc's in my SR account it takes about five days.... the other day, as i was preparing to deposit into my dwolla account, i noticed an option to fill my account instantly.... shit, who wouldn't want that, right??? time saved, main problem solved.... well, i went through their application process and was approved for their little 'credit check'... well it didn't occur to me until just now that dwolla now has my social security number.... can my btc's be tracked back to me if something happens on the sellers end and they find those btc's in his account.... do they have my information on them??? is their any way to launder them that is safe and quick???? i kinda feel like i've been suckered and this instant access to funds was just a ploy to get my social security number.... anybody have any comments or suggestions???
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Yes there is a way to wash your BitCoins, it's called BitCoin Fog, check it out on this URL: http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion/?page=index
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As far as online wallet providers go, it has to be the blockchain.info wallet service
Main benefits imo:
-no e-mail or details required to sign up
-2 factor authentication (including using hardware Yubikeys)
-Android and iOS apps
Very impressive security features