Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Holly on February 29, 2012, 02:55 am
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Just got this PM on the Farmers Market forum.... they seem to know what's good most of the time.
"Per direct Cross Pond shipping will be unavailable.
Reason for this; US customs is running a massive total check on all inbound mail.
Irish customs is active as well, Irish customers are strongly advised to use insurance.
Fortunately we have learned lessons from the past so we are having not to much trouble and are able to revert you to our local vendors who still bet 100%.
outbound mail is untouched so Europeans can still order with stateside vendors although not advised.
If you are a stateside customer and have a pending order or resend with a European vendor please contact Keysh with your order# to work out a credit to use with our stateside vendors.
Until further notice no cross pond shipping.
Thanks,
Adam
"
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> US customs is running a massive total check on all inbound mail.
*All* inbound mail? With what. They got a big fucking giant dog we don't know about or something?
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Probably 5 big fucking red dogs named Clifford. Just be safe guys. :-X
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I'm sure they will be focusing what ever efforts they have on parcels, anyway. If vendors are shipping lettermail spec I wouldn't think much will be affected. Good luck with those 2.2 billion packages a year, guys ;)
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> US customs is running a massive total check on all inbound mail.
*All* inbound mail? With what. They got a big fucking giant dog we don't know about or something?
Yes! its huge, with a big dope smelling nose :o
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As of when is this effective? I just received an order yesterday from the EU with no problem, just took a little longer than a week. Clever and discreet shipping methods however.
Edit: Question, do you think this applies to CAN as well or just across the pond?
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Probably 5 big fucking red dogs named Clifford. Just be safe guys. :-X
This just made my night. :D
~DigitalAlch
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I would probably call bullshit if it was from anybody else but Adam has historically been scarily accurate with these sort of things.
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My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't jump so quick as to call it 'impossible'....
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yeah a link would be nice. but i'm off to buy some "really" big dog treats regardless. taking no chances. a new era, a new enemy... ;)
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It's pretty obvious they have been doing this for a while... Considering that they mainly deal with weed products its pretty dumb to try to import that through customs. Other shit can still pass though no problem.
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I only have stuff coming from SKYY. I'm 100% confident in that packaging, but it does make one wonder.
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The US has 50 million pieces of inbound international mail per day.
PER DAY.
They can't/won't ever be able to check it all.
I worked in shipping in the UK and we get nearly as much as the US, they simply don't have the manpower to check it all here or in the US
Australia is the only place that nuts, because 1) they have a small population and 2) shipping there is so expensive they only have a tiny fraction of what the UK and US do.
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Shit
I just put in an order with MadeInHolland, I DAMNED hope it gets through, I don't need the feds knowing I order drugs online.
-scared-
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Australia is the only place that nuts, because 1) they have a small population and 2) shipping there is so expensive they only have a tiny fraction of what the UK and US do.
Yeah, we should keep an eye on those goosestepping Austrians :)
But seriously, if there's going to be some sneaky innovations in the PO, it'll probably come from the Land of Oz.
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probably operation pangea four or five or whatever number they are on now. Every now and then customs goes into over drive for a few days, usually international with interpol coordination. I think they have been doing it once or twice a year for the past few years. It is primarily aimed at counterfeit pharmaceuticals, but they always end up intercepting all kinds of crazy shit. No idea if this is what is happening, but Pangea operations usually coincide with a major increase in customs and USPI mail checking that lasts for about a week.
http://www.ukmedix.com/impotence/interpol_operation_pangea_iv_leads_to_arrests_and_seizures6153.cfm
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
I'd be delighted if everybody shifted to using digital sniffers. It may feel more 'scientific' to the customs to have a usb connection and a spreadsheet of data to make pretty pictures with, but nothing will beat the dog. Digital noses will give them a false sense of confidence, when in fact they are simply uniformly spreading a flawed technology for drug detection, there is nothing more comforting than standardization.
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
That hole is for a camera. The sniffers are like dogs, they pick up certain molecules, and can 'see' through packages.
I find it odd that the postal system just had a 2 billion dollar cutback,30% of the labor force is being let go, but they have $$ and time to check EVERY package entering the states......
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I'd be delighted if everybody shifted to using digital sniffers. It may feel more 'scientific' to the customs to have a usb connection and a spreadsheet of data to make pretty pictures with, but nothing will beat the dog. Digital noses will give them a false sense of confidence, when in fact they are simply uniformly spreading a flawed technology for drug detection, there is nothing more comforting than standardization.
Dogs will only hit on substances that dogs have been trained to smell, using ion spectroscopy one can identify basically any substance, so say goodbye to those keys of K or whatever you've been getting. :-)
I posted some training documents about GE's desktop model a couple days ago that explains how it works
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it isn´t funny. read for ur self:
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www_de.cgi/http://www.ice.gov/doclib/news/library/factsheets/pdf/commercial-fraud.pdf
Operation Pangea IV: This multilateral international operation is proposed for the fall of 2011
under the auspices of the WCO and INTERPOL. The operation will build on the success of Pangea
I, II and III by working with more than 45 member customs administrations to target the online sale
of counterfeit pharmaceuticals and to raise awareness of the associated health risks.
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www_de.cgi/http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Pharmaceutical-crime/Operations
Pangea IV
Dates: 20 – 27 September 2011
Participating countries: 81 in total
Results:
•2.4 million illicit and counterfeit pills confiscated;
•Estimated value: USD 6.3 million;
•Almost 13,500 websites shut down;
•Some 45,500 packages inspected by regulators and customs authorities, of which almost 8,000 were seized;
•Some 55 individuals are currently under investigation or under arrest for a range of offences, including illegally manufacturing, selling and supplying unlicensed or prescription-only medicines.
Investigations are continuing and the final results from Operation Pangea IV will be released upon their conclusion.
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www_de.cgi/http://www.bka.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Presse2011/110929__OperationPangeaIV.html
this operation was last year Pangea IV 2011 20. - 27. September. like the past years the operation will be (i think) between september - october here in germany / central europe.
if you can read German, google for pangea and customs (zoll)
.....have fun...
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time for interception detection chips
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time for interception detection chips
Is there anybody working on the old design? I don't want to know who or where, but I work a in a related field for my day job and if nobody's getting anything done I could implement ene's idea (plus possibly x-rays in addition to light) in a few weeks and put an open source design out there. (The idea that they'll be cheap probably won't come to fruition though, expect to pay around $12 plus the cost of parts to fabricate one yourself.)
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low tech x-ray detection could easily be done with a piece of undeveloped film.
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i concur on customs weirdness, watched it a little bit ago..
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time for interception detection chips
Is there anybody working on the old design? I don't want to know who or where, but I work a in a related field for my day job and if nobody's getting anything done I could implement ene's idea (plus possibly x-rays in addition to light) in a few weeks and put an open source design out there. (The idea that they'll be cheap probably won't come to fruition though, expect to pay around $12 plus the cost of parts to fabricate one yourself.)
QTC, i for one know a few people that would be very interested in such a concept. including myself. what the theory behind it? i've imagined the possibility, but never thought it would be something easily obtainable at those prices. would they somehow include a gps beacon then?or what? how would they relay information if a package has been intercepted? do i even have the right idea?
my best defense at this point has been to (theoretically) use small handheld metal-detectors to detect any potential tracking beacon's being inserted in a significant, intercepted package crossing international customs (the most reasonable possibility with the long wait times those i know, otherwise implement to hopefully thwart the potential of physical stake-outs.)
unfortunately, i definatley agree electronic sniffers will eventually put alot of people out of bizness, so "the time for us is now" [pretty light's ;) ]
i do believe that's the primary reason japan has become such a customs fortress, no? they are pure evil either way... :x
regardless, i'd be very interested to hear more about your interception detection tek...
peace
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The original idea of interception detection chips came from a vendor on OVDB. These chips would have RFID UARTs, RAM, ROM/NVRAM, and at a minimum a photoresistor/photovoltaic cell. When a vendor's making their pack, they'd throw this chip under the outermost layer, seal up the package, then program it wirelessly with an integer of their choice which they'd then send to the customer. The chip would use the secret integer and the value of epoch at the current time in combination with some hash algorithm to generate a string with a predictable value which would then be broadcast in response to an interrogation with another preprogrammed secret string (kind of like port knocking). If LE intercepts the package and opens it up, the chip (sensing this via the photoresistor) would wipe the secret integer from its memory, throwing off the value of the string that it's transmitting. When the customer receives the pack via mail or GPS dead drop or whatever, they can simply aim their RFID gun at the pack and send the interrogation string. If the response is an expected value depending on the time of day the pack hasn't been opened, if not the pack has been intercepted and can be either abandoned at the drop or have the delivery refused. You can add stuff like oxygen/NMR/x-ray sensors in addition to the light sensor for maximum measurement intelligence.
I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
I feel we're really on the brink of using technology and cryptoanarchy to blow the arms race between us and the feds wide open, somebody needs to do this soon so why not me?
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
customs and uspi are not part of usps
That hole is for a camera. The sniffers are like dogs, they pick up certain molecules, and can 'see' through packages.
I find it odd that the postal system just had a 2 billion dollar cutback,30% of the labor force is being let go, but they have $$ and time to check EVERY package entering the states......
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
That hole is for a camera. The sniffers are like dogs, they pick up certain molecules, and can 'see' through packages.
I find it odd that the postal system just had a 2 billion dollar cutback,30% of the labor force is being let go, but they have $$ and time to check EVERY package entering the states......
That tiny hole is for a camera? I'm not doubting it just made more sense to me to poke a tiny hole to let the air out and their sensors would work better. So, they are now taking time to put a camera in each one rather than opening it up? don't doubt it, its government work...
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The original idea of interception detection chips came from a vendor on OVDB. These chips would have RFID UARTs, RAM, ROM/NVRAM, and at a minimum a photoresistor/photovoltaic cell. When a vendor's making their pack, they'd throw this chip under the outermost layer, seal up the package, then program it wirelessly with an integer of their choice which they'd then send to the customer. The chip would use the secret integer and the value of epoch at the current time in combination with some hash algorithm to generate a string with a predictable value which would then be broadcast in response to an interrogation with another preprogrammed secret string (kind of like port knocking). If LE intercepts the package and opens it up, the chip (sensing this via the photoresistor) would wipe the secret integer from its memory, throwing off the value of the string that it's transmitting. When the customer receives the pack via mail or GPS dead drop or whatever, they can simply aim their RFID gun at the pack and send the interrogation string. If the response is an expected value depending on the time of day the pack hasn't been opened, if not the pack has been intercepted and can be either abandoned at the drop or have the delivery refused. You can add stuff like oxygen/NMR/x-ray sensors in addition to the light sensor for maximum measurement intelligence.
I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
I feel we're really on the brink of using technology and cryptoanarchy to blow the arms race between us and the feds wide open, somebody needs to do this soon so why not me?
I would be all over this for overseas bulk shipments...
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act as if...
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The original idea of interception detection chips came from a vendor on OVDB. These chips would have RFID UARTs, RAM, ROM/NVRAM, and at a minimum a photoresistor/photovoltaic cell. When a vendor's making their pack, they'd throw this chip under the outermost layer, seal up the package, then program it wirelessly with an integer of their choice which they'd then send to the customer. The chip would use the secret integer and the value of epoch at the current time in combination with some hash algorithm to generate a string with a predictable value which would then be broadcast in response to an interrogation with another preprogrammed secret string (kind of like port knocking). If LE intercepts the package and opens it up, the chip (sensing this via the photoresistor) would wipe the secret integer from its memory, throwing off the value of the string that it's transmitting. When the customer receives the pack via mail or GPS dead drop or whatever, they can simply aim their RFID gun at the pack and send the interrogation string. If the response is an expected value depending on the time of day the pack hasn't been opened, if not the pack has been intercepted and can be either abandoned at the drop or have the delivery refused. You can add stuff like oxygen/NMR/x-ray sensors in addition to the light sensor for maximum measurement intelligence.
I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
I feel we're really on the brink of using technology and cryptoanarchy to blow the arms race between us and the feds wide open, somebody needs to do this soon so why not me?
I would be all over this for overseas bulk shipments...
i'm in contact with someone who is making a design for these right now, but instead of using photovoltaic cells they want it to measure the electrical resistance of the package, which will change if it is ripped open but wont change (according to them anyway, but they seem to know their shit) if it is dropped or shaken etc. That way even if it is opened in a dark room it will trigger, since it actually is the act of opening the package (which changes its electrical resistance) that causes the chip to trigger, rather than the more secondary effect of light hitting the photovoltaic cell. They can probably even make it have a certain sensitivity level so merely punching a small hole in the pack wont change it enough to trigger.
You might as well make a design for it too QTC, the more people working on it the sooner one of them will get done with something, and also using different techniques etc is never a bad thing.
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I would probably call bullshit if it was from anybody else but Adam has historically been scarily accurate with these sort of things.
Is he too accurate?
... taking no chances. a new era, a new enemy... ;)
Psyop market modulation, intelligence analysis, correlation attacks... are you ready for the new enemy?
act as if...
This might be exactly the wrong thing to do.
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The original idea of interception detection chips came from a vendor on OVDB. These chips would have RFID UARTs, RAM, ROM/NVRAM, and at a minimum a photoresistor/photovoltaic cell. When a vendor's making their pack, they'd throw this chip under the outermost layer, seal up the package, then program it wirelessly with an integer of their choice which they'd then send to the customer. The chip would use the secret integer and the value of epoch at the current time in combination with some hash algorithm to generate a string with a predictable value which would then be broadcast in response to an interrogation with another preprogrammed secret string (kind of like port knocking). If LE intercepts the package and opens it up, the chip (sensing this via the photoresistor) would wipe the secret integer from its memory, throwing off the value of the string that it's transmitting. When the customer receives the pack via mail or GPS dead drop or whatever, they can simply aim their RFID gun at the pack and send the interrogation string. If the response is an expected value depending on the time of day the pack hasn't been opened, if not the pack has been intercepted and can be either abandoned at the drop or have the delivery refused. You can add stuff like oxygen/NMR/x-ray sensors in addition to the light sensor for maximum measurement intelligence.
I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
I feel we're really on the brink of using technology and cryptoanarchy to blow the arms race between us and the feds wide open, somebody needs to do this soon so why not me?
I would be all over this for overseas bulk shipments...
i'm in contact with someone who is making a design for these right now, but instead of using photovoltaic cells they want it to measure the electrical resistance of the package, which will change if it is ripped open but wont change (according to them anyway, but they seem to know their shit) if it is dropped or shaken etc. That way even if it is opened in a dark room it will trigger, since it actually is the act of opening the package (which changes its electrical resistance) that causes the chip to trigger, rather than the more secondary effect of light hitting the photovoltaic cell. They can probably even make it have a certain sensitivity level so merely punching a small hole in the pack wont change it enough to trigger.
You might as well make a design for it too QTC, the more people working on it the sooner one of them will get done with something, and also using different techniques etc is never a bad thing.
Would this be trigger with a pin test or would it take a much larger area than a hole punch size hole?
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I'm not sure but I imagine it can have a minimum sensitivity level that would prevent it from triggering with a pin test.
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just one simple question - guys, do you think, that it's better to send mail to the usa (from europe) incl. tracking, or not?
i've never used tracking (automatically) for shipping orders, only if a buyer insist for this extra service...
this time, i've taken the initiative myself, after i've stumbled across this article...
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The original idea of interception detection chips came from a vendor on OVDB. These chips would have RFID UARTs, RAM, ROM/NVRAM, and at a minimum a photoresistor/photovoltaic cell. When a vendor's making their pack, they'd throw this chip under the outermost layer, seal up the package, then program it wirelessly with an integer of their choice which they'd then send to the customer. The chip would use the secret integer and the value of epoch at the current time in combination with some hash algorithm to generate a string with a predictable value which would then be broadcast in response to an interrogation with another preprogrammed secret string (kind of like port knocking). If LE intercepts the package and opens it up, the chip (sensing this via the photoresistor) would wipe the secret integer from its memory, throwing off the value of the string that it's transmitting. When the customer receives the pack via mail or GPS dead drop or whatever, they can simply aim their RFID gun at the pack and send the interrogation string. If the response is an expected value depending on the time of day the pack hasn't been opened, if not the pack has been intercepted and can be either abandoned at the drop or have the delivery refused. You can add stuff like oxygen/NMR/x-ray sensors in addition to the light sensor for maximum measurement intelligence.
I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
I feel we're really on the brink of using technology and cryptoanarchy to blow the arms race between us and the feds wide open, somebody needs to do this soon so why not me?
I would be all over this for overseas bulk shipments...
+ 9000 8)
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i'm in contact with someone who is making a design for these right now, but instead of using photovoltaic cells they want it to measure the electrical resistance of the package, which will change if it is ripped open but wont change (according to them anyway, but they seem to know their shit) if it is dropped or shaken etc. That way even if it is opened in a dark room it will trigger, since it actually is the act of opening the package (which changes its electrical resistance) that causes the chip to trigger, rather than the more secondary effect of light hitting the photovoltaic cell. They can probably even make it have a certain sensitivity level so merely punching a small hole in the pack wont change it enough to trigger.
measuring the resistance of the package to detect tampering is kinda flaky for a couple reasons I'm too lazy to get into but I was thinking of that same problem (dark rooms). I thought about using lambda sensors since ene had tossed around that idea but they're very expensive (go to mouser.com and search for part number 785-GMS10RVS). Barometers were the next idea I came up with, you can throw them inside the outermost layer of sealing and when the pressure goes above say 7.5 kPa, you have a confirmed interception. Unfortunately the cheapest barometers (like http://cache.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPL115A1.pdf which is $1.50 ish) are SMD chips and since the plan is to have vendors build these themselves I don't think that'll work since most vendors won't have reflow ovens lying around. :-P The through hole chips I was looking at cost $15 or so. wrt x-rays I'm gonna have to find out how much things like http://jp.hamamatsu.com/products/x-ray/pd181/index_en.html cost but "contact us for pricing" is never a good sign. That's enough for a public board for now. :-)
You might as well make a design for it too QTC, the more people working on it the sooner one of them will get done with something, and also using different techniques etc is never a bad thing.
Open source design process is the shit
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I only have stuff coming from SKYY. I'm 100% confident in that packaging, but it does make one wonder.
Lol, I'm in the same boat. But I'm sure we're fine q:
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I should add this probably wouldn't be used for SR as the chip would cost $10 or so to fab plus $20 (?) in parts. It's more for the vendors who vend to the vendors, and are slanging stuff like keys of molly/cocaine as opposed to LSD crystals. ;-)
$10-20 is a small price to pay for such technology to a few good peepz i know. "please" keep us updated if you really intend to freely post this tech online as you you claim bro. would definately save a few souls i know "a lot" of hassle...ya know?
cuz i really dont want my drug-dealing grandchilden in prison ya know? who else is gonna support me after swim blowz his vast drug-fortune on thai prostitutes and nmda-antagonist's? ya know? ;)
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$10-20 is a small price to pay for such technology to a few good peepz i know. "please" keep us updated if you really intend to freely post this tech online as you you claim bro. would definately save a few souls i know "a lot" of hassle...ya know?
cuz i really dont want my drug-dealing grandchilden in prison ya know? who else is gonna support me after swim blowz his vast drug-fortune on thai prostitutes and nmda-antagonist's? ya know? ;)
well I can't make promises, I am a lazy shit after all but the idea of providing something to the agorist community does make my dick hard
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odd that the postal system just had a 2 billion dollar cutback,30% of the labor force is being let go, but they have $$ and time to check EVERY package entering the states
It's for the children. Think of the children.
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not too interested in ur hard dick, as i've got my own, but i must say i know few peepz who might bee more than willing to donate a pretty penny to such a cause. if ya w@nt3d to make a bitcoin? or a g@zillion? opensource is of course always tha best offering. would bee very curious about any ongoing, related disscusions elsewhere about such things tho. i'd imagine i could put such a magnificant thing together, if given the tchnonlogy, myself....if i can pull apart a ford engine, or a g5...yeah. not "completely "retarded....yet...and could prolly put it back together. just sayin...
peace
;)
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Whats the chance that my package will be intercepted?
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I ordered less than a half ounce of weed from a Canadian vendor a couple weeks ago, and supposedly he shipped on Feb 23. Still waiting here in SW USA, starting to get nervous after reading through this thread. Will update here when/if it arrives.
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bro 5 daze isn't a big wait time for international shipping, even CA->US. Give it a minute. didn't the vendor give you a DCN or some way of tracking your order? if not, why not? jmo...?
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Whats the chance that my package will be intercepted?
99.99999999%
what now?
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Was considering ordering a larger amount of dutch herbals this week... Should I be justifiably worried, or order as planned? How much confidence do you folks have in this intel?
Thanks
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Whats the chance that my package will be intercepted?
99.99999999%
what now?
If you are paying out 99.99999999:1 odds I will take that bet.... as often as you like. ;)
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QTC what are the issues with measuring electrical resistance of the package? I really know little about this. I told them photovoltaic cells are the suggested technique but they seem pretty sure that electrical resistance is a better technique since it avoids the risk of dark rooms. I will pass on any flaws with using electrical resistance and see what they have to say about it.
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Ive received a couple of packages from across the pond in the last two weeks. What i did notice is that they punched a tiny hole at the top. I assume that this is to help with their digital sniffers. I saw a thing on tv about how customs are using digital sniffers instead of dogs. they said that they are much more reliable and dont have to take them poop..
Seriously though. if its packaged well and is vacuum sealed I would manage it would be ok (as long as its not a smelly substance like pot).. I dont order very much overseas, but this is the first time i have ever noticed a tiny hole at the very top...
That hole is for a camera. The sniffers are like dogs, they pick up certain molecules, and can 'see' through packages.
I find it odd that the postal system just had a 2 billion dollar cutback,30% of the labor force is being let go, but they have $$ and time to check EVERY package entering the states......
That tiny hole is for a camera? I'm not doubting it just made more sense to me to poke a tiny hole to let the air out and their sensors would work better. So, they are now taking time to put a camera in each one rather than opening it up? don't doubt it, its government work...
Are you sure that hole was not there already? I picked up some packaging recently and the post office had punched holes through it to hang it up on hooks :o
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Also allow me to make some suggestions from an area I do have a limited amount of expertise in (measuring electrical resistance not being one of these areas). Also will post some 'open research' questions.
First, is RFID the best transmission technology? Battery powered RFID can transmit up to 100 feet away I believe. It is certainly not going to work if we use RFID that is not battery powered as transmission distance will not be far enough to get a reading. Let's think of other transmission technologies that we could use. One idea I just had is using GSM chips. I know some leet carders use skimmers that text the card data to a phone, so they only need to worry about installation of the skimmer and not pick up. Perhaps we could also use GSM chips and have the state signal sent to a predetermined phone number. This would allow for detection of interception from a tremendous distance, but would also require the package to be in an area with reception. Could even have it send the signal via cellular network to a VOIP number that is accessed anonymously or something. This also has the added advantage of the vendor and customer both being able to check for interception, as a physical presence near the package will not be required.
Second, what sensors can we use? The first suggestion by Enelysion was to use photovoltaic cells that trigger when light hits them (thus when the package is opened, we would assume). A limitation of this is the potential for packages to be opened in dark rooms. Things we need to take into consideration include ease of creating the product, ease of anonymously obtaining the required components, size of the components (we want these to be as small as possible), cost of the components (the cheaper the better, although for huge bulk orders cost will be less of a consideration), etc. One potential technique someone who is working on a design for these mentioned is measuring the electrical resistance of the packaging material, you seem to think this is a bad idea and I would love to hear why so I can forward the information on. Other potential sensors include x-ray, infra-red, etc. These would offer the advantage of being able to determine if a package was scanned at all, although the primary thing we are concerned with is if the package was opened. Another potential thing that has been mentioned is the use of oxygen detectors with the chip being vac sealed with the drug shipment.
As far as what is broadcast, I propose that we use a PRNG with a secret seed that is set by the sender after the package is created (wirelessly set). The chip then begins to run the PRNG and broadcasts its current state every certain amount of time, after a timer runs out. The output of the PRNG will either be a 1 or a 0, and this is determined by the seed. Someone who knows the seed will be able to determine the state of the PRNG out to an arbitary bit length. Someone who does not know the seed will have a fifty fifty chance of being able to mimic its resulting output for a given broadcast (either 1 or 0). The person the pack is sent to can measure the output of the PRNG (via the transmission system we go with) and compare it to what the output of the PRNG should be (which they can determine since the sender of the pack sends them the seed via asymmetric encryption). If it matches up for enough broadcasts, it can be determined that the seed is still present in the volatile memory. If it doesn't broadcast or the broadcast does not match up with what the seed should produce, interception (or malfunction) can safely be assumed.
I propose that the person getting the pack is not required to broadcast to it, as they could very well compromise their position by doing so. The chip should instead be on a timer and set to broadcast after a set amount of time (when it is assumed to be in the box waiting for pick up). The chip can not broadcast while it is in transit or else the attacker can start to look for broadcasting packages and the chip will turn into a beacon. However, I am fairly certain that there are broadcasting mechanisms that attempt to hide the signal that is broadcast from someone who does not have knowledge about the parameters of the broadcast, I am not an expert on wireless transmission but I have friends who are I will ask them more about this. It may be feasible to have a hidden broadcast that is difficult for a third party to detect even if they are looking for it, although again I am not certain if we will be able to implement such a sophisticated system with our chips. LPI is one such system for signal transmission with low risk of detection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_probability_of_intercept_radar .
Then we need a mechanism in place to quickly wipe the volatile memory after one of the sensors is triggered, or else customs may be able to flash freeze it and obtain the seed. Cutting power after one of the sensors is triggered may not be enough.
Design goals should be to make the chip as fully features as possible while also making it as cheap and easy to produce as possible, and perhaps most important as small and discreet as possible.
Please weigh in everyone who has any expertise relating to any of the areas involved with this, or anyone who has comments opinions questions or suggestions. Let's get this shit done! Using these in addition to fake ID boxes will make importing large bulk far safer, as we will always be able to determine when an interception has taken place prior to attempting pick up.
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..very interesting little project
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My sister-inlaw works for Canada Post and she says they are doing searches for contraband items.Almost 2 weeks now but small packaging is coming thru untouched.Also most business mail is sent thru untouched at Sarnia,On post office
BigBill6778
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Then we need a mechanism in place to quickly wipe the volatile memory after one of the sensors is triggered, or else customs may be able to flash freeze it and obtain the seed. Cutting power after one of the sensors is triggered may not be enough.
EEPROM?
Also, I already posted this several hours ago, but it seems to have disappeared :O
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Hmm, let me tell you that I'm not an authority on the US postal or legal systems, just have a hard time envisioning the practical application of such an RFID thing...
Haven't we established that...?
a) small amounts of drugs should not warrant a controlled delivery and thus the chip isn't worthwile
b) bulk shipments (wherever the line is drawn) that end up being seized have a high chance for an orchestrated controlled delivery including warrants obtained beforehand (I believe that's what the postal intern had to say in his thread). Too many people will go apeshit about a possible incoming CD and how to deny but will forget about the few grams of weed stashed in the house (strong circumstantial evidence) or worse, unencrypted PCs (please everybody, encrypt asap, it's so easy yet powerful!).
Anyway, assuming everything is clean and no search warrant granted, you must expect them to have uncovered your device and be on the lookout for ANY suspicious activity. Pointing an RFID gun at your parcel (as someone suggested above) will not exactly be to your advantage ^^.
Perhaps it's doable in a practical way and I'm just completely missing it so...
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For one it is dumb to assume you wont be raided and sent to pound me in the ass prison for a small personal use interception, people go to prison for personal use amounts of drugs on a regular basis and you are not special just because you get your drugs shipped to you.
Second of all, it would be primarily for importers. RFID would be able to send the signal 100 feet away if it is battery powered, you should be able to covertly get a reading on it. Also could use chips that send signal via cellular network for even more distance.
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My sister-inlaw works for Canada Post and she says they are doing searches for contraband items.Almost 2 weeks now but small packaging is coming thru untouched.Also most business mail is sent thru untouched at Sarnia,On post office
Thank you! I asked about CAN specifically so I appreciate that info. Glad to hear smaller business mail isnt getting too much attention.
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For one it is dumb to assume you wont be raided and sent to pound me in the ass prison for a small personal use interception, people go to prison for personal use amounts of drugs on a regular basis and you are not special just because you get your drugs shipped to you.
Would you say that is the case primarily in the US, or across the board?
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For one it is dumb to assume you wont be raided and sent to pound me in the ass prison for a small personal use interception, people go to prison for personal use amounts of drugs on a regular basis and you are not special just because you get your drugs shipped to you.
Second of all, it would be primarily for importers. RFID would be able to send the signal 100 feet away if it is battery powered, you should be able to covertly get a reading on it. Also could use chips that send signal via cellular network for even more distance.
Again, I'm just expressing what I perceive to be the consensus of Americans here (I'm European): My intuition tells me the same as what you're saying: If they really decided to go after a small (or not so small) order (maybe factoring in criminal records), a case could be started around circumstantial evidence. Now look around the threads here, everybody seems to have a fixation with not signing anything and upholding plausible deniability. I would opt to be much more careful living across the pond. But this perceived loophole has almost become an axiom of some sort. Can somebody with a law background chime in?
As for your second point, I agree it needs to be developed for importers. We need original ideas like these to stay ahead of the system ;)
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wouldn't allowing such a device to connect to a cellular network or some other form of long distance communication be an absolute necessity? an otherwise limited range of 100 ft wouldn't do that much good if the package gets intercepted at customs, where it could be removed. although if that were to happen, the shear lack of a signal broadcasting could itself be the red flag?
if it were intercepted you'd also have to assume they would very quickly possibly modify and use the technology to their advantage, no? like making it broadcast a false signal to fool the otherwise brave soul? or am i missing something here? absolutely love the concept tho! ;)
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You can easily get 10 years in jail for one lsd blotter in russia, if you accepted delivery. It's called a big amount. 5 blotters of lsd is an "extremely big amount"(sic!) and will lead to the life sentence.
That's called a crime against morals of society. The morons in russian government really think that people use syringes to inject lsd into veins, and can kill for a dose. ;)
Fuck man...Russia doesn't fuck around when it comes to drugs I presume...Not even for personal use, which is pretty nuts man.
I mean, even in the Dis-United Police States of Amurrka, they'll let you off usually if you only have small amounts for personal use, happened to me before...that is of course assuming that you're not black/hispanic, in which case you get a good ol' fashion beat down, followed by 15 years to life.
EDIT: Life in prison for 5 tabs...what the fuck...What do they do to you if you have a sheet??? Burn you at the stake???
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Canada is trying to introduce mandatory minimums for all drug charges( 7yrs for 10 or less plants)( 15 yrs for 50 or more plants) ( 5yrs for 14 grams or less)(12 yrs for 15 or more )
BigBill6778
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For one it is dumb to assume you wont be raided and sent to pound me in the ass prison for a small personal use interception, people go to prison for personal use amounts of drugs on a regular basis and you are not special just because you get your drugs shipped to you.
Second of all, it would be primarily for importers. RFID would be able to send the signal 100 feet away if it is battery powered, you should be able to covertly get a reading on it. Also could use chips that send signal via cellular network for even more distance.
Again, I'm just expressing what I perceive to be the consensus of Americans here (I'm European): My intuition tells me the same as what you're saying: If they really decided to go after a small (or not so small) order (maybe factoring in criminal records), a case could be started around circumstantial evidence. Now look around the threads here, everybody seems to have a fixation with not signing anything and upholding plausible deniability. I would opt to be much more careful living across the pond. But this perceived loophole has almost become an axiom of some sort. Can somebody with a law background chime in?
As for your second point, I agree it needs to be developed for importers. We need original ideas like these to stay ahead of the system ;)
The consensus of Americans here is the result of people who want to pretend they are not breaking the law so they can sleep more soundly at night
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wouldn't allowing such a device to connect to a cellular network or some other form of long distance communication be an absolute necessity? an otherwise limited range of 100 ft wouldn't do that much good if the package gets intercepted at customs, where it could be removed. although if that were to happen, the shear lack of a signal broadcasting could itself be the red flag?
if it were intercepted you'd also have to assume they would very quickly possibly modify and use the technology to their advantage, no? like making it broadcast a false signal to fool the otherwise brave soul? or am i missing something here? absolutely love the concept tho! ;)
You could take the reading while it is in the box you pick it up from. For example, a fake ID box with no ties to you. Lack of broadcast is the red flag to not attempt pick up. They will not be able to make it broadcast a false signal without the seed from volatile memory, which is wiped as soon as one of the sensors is triggered.
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The Farmers Market, eh? You trust the Farmers Market - where people go to get locally grown goods - to tell you about seizures on international mail?
That seems totally reasonable.
When I was in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois, I heard all about how AOL was going to start charging a fee for every Instant Message and I sure am glad I got that heads up.
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EDIT: Life in prison for 5 tabs...what the fuck...What do they do to you if you have a sheet??? Burn you at the stake???
Your whole family and everyone in your cell phone's contacts list gets life too.
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EDIT: Life in prison for 5 tabs...what the fuck...What do they do to you if you have a sheet??? Burn you at the stake???
Your whole family and everyone in your cell phone's contacts list gets life too.
It's ok, after a stint in prison you'll be dragged out and forced to run the country like all the other criminals. Justice is a giant Soviet Russia joke there. In Soviet Russia *you* imprison Society!
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The Farmers Market, eh? You trust the Farmers Market - where people go to get locally grown goods - to tell you about seizures on international mail?
That seems totally reasonable.
When I was in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois, I heard all about how AOL was going to start charging a fee for every Instant Message and I sure am glad I got that heads up.
Back when I was picking beans in Guatemala, we used to make fresh coffee, right off the trees I mean. That was a good scenario. This scenario is shit for Americans but, hey, I'm not in America. :D
j/k my yankee friends..
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EDIT: Life in prison for 5 tabs...what the fuck...What do they do to you if you have a sheet??? Burn you at the stake???
Your whole family and everyone in your cell phone's contacts list gets life too.
What the fuck is that true?
The Farmers Market, eh? You trust the Farmers Market - where people go to get locally grown goods - to tell you about seizures on international mail?
That seems totally reasonable.
When I was in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois, I heard all about how AOL was going to start charging a fee for every Instant Message and I sure am glad I got that heads up.
The Farmers Market is a site like Silkroad. Coudn't tell if you were being sarcastic though..... ;)
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What the fuck is that true?
No, i was kidding.
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^ what he said:)
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QTC what are the issues with measuring electrical resistance of the package? I really know little about this. I told them photovoltaic cells are the suggested technique but they seem pretty sure that electrical resistance is a better technique since it avoids the risk of dark rooms. I will pass on any flaws with using electrical resistance and see what they have to say about it.
First of all you'd need to measure the resistance across various points of the inside of the package since it may be ripped open at an arbitrary location. This means you'd have leads and wires lying all over the inside of the pack, this would be very easy to dislodge during shipping and would make actually packing the pack a pain in the ass. More thoughts... smd/through hole ohmmeters aren't exactly cheap... and the biggest obstacle is that cardboard has an insanely high resistivity! It's rho value is approximately ten million to one hundred million ohms * centimeters, which means that cardboard is basically an open circuit. I see no possible way to measure the resistance of the box and get a meaningful value in return.
First, is RFID the best transmission technology? [snip]
No real thoughts on this, but acquiring burners does kind of deanonymize you. RFID is also far more in my wheelhouse than GSM so I'll leave commenting on that to somebody who knows what they're talking about. :)
Other potential sensors include x-ray
I will investigate this...
Another potential thing that has been mentioned is the use of oxygen detectors with the chip being vac sealed with the drug shipment.
I went over this in my other post, oxygen sensors are prohibitively expensive, and barometers are imho a good way to do the same thing at a very low price (around $1 each) with a small footprint on the chip itself.
As far as what is broadcast, I propose that we use a PRNG with a secret seed that is set by the sender after the package is created (wirelessly set). The chip then begins to run the PRNG and broadcasts its current state every certain amount of time, after a timer runs out. The output of the PRNG will either be a 1 or a 0, and this is determined by the seed. Someone who knows the seed will be able to determine the state of the PRNG out to an arbitary bit length. Someone who does not know the seed will have a fifty fifty chance of being able to mimic its resulting output for a given broadcast (either 1 or 0). The person the pack is sent to can measure the output of the PRNG (via the transmission system we go with) and compare it to what the output of the PRNG should be (which they can determine since the sender of the pack sends them the seed via asymmetric encryption). If it matches up for enough broadcasts, it can be determined that the seed is still present in the volatile memory. If it doesn't broadcast or the broadcast does not match up with what the seed should produce, interception (or malfunction) can safely be assumed.
I like this idea better than mine
I propose that the person getting the pack is not required to broadcast to it, as they could very well compromise their position by doing so.
Are you worried about LE waiting at the drop point with radio analysis equipment? I think the odds of that are very low since there's no way to detect what the chip is doing since it won't be transmitting passively. Compare that with...
The chip should instead be on a timer and set to broadcast after a set amount of time (when it is assumed to be in the box waiting for pick up). The chip can not broadcast while it is in transit or else the attacker can start to look for broadcasting packages and the chip will turn into a beacon.
How do you know when exactly the package will be delivered? It could start broadcasting when it's hung up in customs or something... this would be easily detectable and could possibly lead to staking out the delivery location with radio analysis equipment. I think this presents a lot of dangers compared with requiring a secret interrogation to return a broadcast. Maybe an idea to consider is that one interrogation will result in 20 outputs of the PRNG or something, instead of just one. This would result in a (1/2)^20 chance that the transmission could be replicated which is... astronomically low. :-p
Then we need a mechanism in place to quickly wipe the volatile memory after one of the sensors is triggered, or else customs may be able to flash freeze it and obtain the seed. Cutting power after one of the sensors is triggered may not be enough.
just overwrite the RAM with zeroes, this can be done very very fast on a custom design like this especially since the RAM will be an absurdly small size like 1K or something.
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If someone is using an RFID with "resistance" then I'd bet they're using a simple continuity sensor. They're simply looking for a trace or a small wire across the seam of the box to break. This is the simplest and easiest implementation of a wireless means of detecting the opening of a package.
There's a couple vendors already producing these. Google "RFID Crack Detector" and you'll see what I'm talking about. There are passive options out there that are easy to conceal.
Wires across the seams will show up on X-ray and might set off some red flags..... (but I dunno what those guys even look for when they do screenings)
Bob