Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Evanescence on February 07, 2012, 10:44 pm
-
I've seen people here say that meth mouth, faces of meth, etc are just propaganda.
Is this shit for real or some kind of reefer madness redux?
If it's not real how are they faking the photos?
If they are real what medical process could explain these changes happening within 90 days?
2011 update of faces:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360586/From-drugs-mugs-shocking-photos-drug-addiction-takes-toll.html
-
I think they could definitely be real but you gotta understand these must be the worst case scenerios. I'm sure these people smoke or shoot more than regularly, never use clean supplies and probably live on the streets or near to them.
-
yeah, they're totally exaggerated, but that doesn't mean that meth is a drug to be taken lightly, it is most assuredly not
-
A combination of bad hygiene and depression will cause rather dramatic changes to a person.
There are drug users, and then there are junkies. The media continually conflates the two because it's never very analytical about drug use. Take cocaine for example. The majority of cocaine users in the UK are in the Media and Finance sectors. i.e. most of them are successful businessmen with significant income flows, or functional drug users. 10% or so are addicts or junkies.
It basically comes down to the chemistry in your body. Most of those cocaine users take a line every couple of days. It's a 'party thing' for them.
Junkies cram as much drug into their body as possible. It's extreme version of what happens with food. Most of us eat more or less food in some kind of cycle, there is a balance. A considerable portion of the population loses their self control and eat as much as they possibly can.
People regularly die from overeating, and they die from taking drugs. The key difference is that the quantity of a drug that can kill you is fairly small in size, less than an ounce of most drugs sold here or inside a pharmacy of any class will probably kill you stone dead no matter how pure they are. That is partly why overdoses occur. The junkie or newbie drug user doesn't work out the half-life of the drug in question, and winds up taking more than they realized over a period of time. Some drugs also distort your perception of time, so that's an issue.
So that's Reason No.1. People take too much in too short a period of time. Usually this is related to being a newbie or having mental issues like depression. Obviously this is more likely with drugs that create a greater 'high', such as meth or cocaine.
Reason No.2 is pharmacological. Many street drugs are not professionally produced by good laboratories. As such, a lot of drugs, MDMA in particular, have many adulterants in them. This is partly because those people haven't a fucking clue what they're doing, and partly because they pass through many hands with an incentive to 'bulk up'. In fact, a good portion of ecstasy pills, do not actually contain MDMA at all! (seriously think about getting that drug test kit).
Reason No.3 is also pharmacological. Drug interactions. Most functional drug users take either milder drugs such as weed/LSD/MDMA, or they take exclusively one hard drug at a time e.g. cocaine. Junkies on the other hand, continually skip from one drug to the next, forever in search for the next high. Junkies are in denial about coming down from a high. Eating chocolate and drinking coffee makes me feel good. But I know if I continually eat chocolate and drink coffee I'm just building up a tolerance to my "drugs". The same applies to drugs, only an order of magnitude more so. If you have a variety of hard drugs in your system, even if they are of the appropriate quantity and are pure, you are much more likely to suffer from the side affects of drug interactions. (e.g. frequently turns people into miserable cows)
--
In my view, a responsible functional drug user of hard drugs does things like these:
- Purchase a decent milligram scales to weigh quantities.
- Purchase a timelock safe if the drugs you take alter perception of time.
- Take one drug at a time to avoid drug interactions and know the half-life for those drugs.
- Use a drug testing kits to ensure you have what you think you have.
I think this is just common sense. You can acquire all of the above for less than $200
tldr; You should apply the same precautions taken when you take pharmaceutical drugs, to illegal drugs, with a dollop of common sense.
Conflict of Interest Disclosure: I will be selling drug testing kits on the Silk Road in the future 8)
-
Reason No.3 is also pharmacological. Drug interactions. Most functional drug users take either milder drugs such as weed/LSD/MDMA, or they take exclusively one hard drug at a time e.g. cocaine. Junkies on the other hand, continually skip from one drug to the next, forever in search for the next high. Junkies are in denial about coming down from a high. Eating chocolate and drinking coffee makes me feel good. But I know if I continually eat chocolate and drink coffee I'm just building up a tolerance to my "drugs". The same applies to drugs, only an order of magnitude more so. If you have a variety of hard drugs in your system, even if they are of the appropriate quantity and are pure, you are much more likely to suffer from the side affects of drug interactions. (e.g. frequently turns people into miserable cows)
I strongly disagree with this. junkies don't go from drug to fucking drug. I have never met a single junky who will shoot heroin one day and do coke that night. never. a junky and an addict have their drug of choice. and that's it. they may do other opiates to help them get well. but they will almost never go out of the opiate family to get high. heroin addicts - opiates. cokeheads - coke/crack. and so on. I myself have been hooked on dope for a while now. I get offered coke all the fucking time from my dealer in real life. I never buy any because I don't like uppers - and chances are, many people are the same way. why would a coke head blow heroin if they are addicted to coke. doesn't make sense. you don't get well by doing that.
it's not the junkies ODing off of a mixture of things...it's the dumb ass newbies mixing shit because they think they're badasses and can handle it without doing a shred of research. junkies and addicts know there drugs. and know what drugs won't mix with others. you don't become a junkie if you're fucking ignorant as shit. you will die way before you even reach the stage.
in fact, if anyone is actually interested in this type of lifestyle and the psych of an addict, go read Burroughs's "Junky" - great portrait of the lifestyle and mindset of an addict
-
Yeah, I've known my share of so-called "junkies" or addicts in my time, and their typical behavior is to stick to that one drug that their body is craving. Nothing else even interests them, not in the slightest. And what makes LSD a "mild" drug? O.o I have had some experiences on acid that were anything but mild!
On topic, though... are the meth pics real? I think so. But I also think the time span they claim for those pics to be badly exaggerated. Meth speeds you up, right? I don't think it's a stretch to say it speeds up the processes in your body, which may contribute to "aging" you a hell of a lot faster than you would otherwise. Just probably not as fast as they want you to think.
But to be honest - if you're doing that much meth, I think you're likely to have bigger problems than how you look.
-
I've worked in medicine for the better part of a decade and I've seen a lot of addicts. I can tell you I've seen meth do this to people in a few months. It's amazing, and fucking scary. Obviously I enjoy drugs, I'm here, but I won't touch meth or heroin after what I've seen. Offering someone meth is like offering them HIV. If you're stuck on it, sorry to hear it and good luck, but if you're not: don't touch that shit for any reason. Even if you get clean, you will crave it until you die, it never goes away. Being away from it is the only way to stay clean, because if it's there you will use it.
-
A combination of bad hygiene and depression will cause rather dramatic changes to a person.
There are drug users, and then there are junkies. The media continually conflates the two because it's never very analytical about drug use. Take cocaine for example. The majority of cocaine users in the UK are in the Media and Finance sectors. i.e. most of them are successful businessmen with significant income flows, or functional drug users. 10% or so are addicts or junkies.
It basically comes down to the chemistry in your body. Most of those cocaine users take a line every couple of days. It's a 'party thing' for them.
Junkies cram as much drug into their body as possible. It's extreme version of what happens with food. Most of us eat more or less food in some kind of cycle, there is a balance. A considerable portion of the population loses their self control and eat as much as they possibly can.
People regularly die from overeating, and they die from taking drugs. The key difference is that the quantity of a drug that can kill you is fairly small in size, less than an ounce of most drugs sold here or inside a pharmacy of any class will probably kill you stone dead no matter how pure they are. That is partly why overdoses occur. The junkie or newbie drug user doesn't work out the half-life of the drug in question, and winds up taking more than they realized over a period of time. Some drugs also distort your perception of time, so that's an issue.
So that's Reason No.1. People take too much in too short a period of time. Usually this is related to being a newbie or having mental issues like depression. Obviously this is more likely with drugs that create a greater 'high', such as meth or cocaine.
Reason No.2 is pharmacological. Many street drugs are not professionally produced by good laboratories. As such, a lot of drugs, MDMA in particular, have many adulterants in them. This is partly because those people haven't a fucking clue what they're doing, and partly because they pass through many hands with an incentive to 'bulk up'. In fact, a good portion of ecstasy pills, do not actually contain MDMA at all! (seriously think about getting that drug test kit).
Reason No.3 is also pharmacological. Drug interactions. Most functional drug users take either milder drugs such as weed/LSD/MDMA, or they take exclusively one hard drug at a time e.g. cocaine. Junkies on the other hand, continually skip from one drug to the next, forever in search for the next high. Junkies are in denial about coming down from a high. Eating chocolate and drinking coffee makes me feel good. But I know if I continually eat chocolate and drink coffee I'm just building up a tolerance to my "drugs". The same applies to drugs, only an order of magnitude more so. If you have a variety of hard drugs in your system, even if they are of the appropriate quantity and are pure, you are much more likely to suffer from the side affects of drug interactions. (e.g. frequently turns people into miserable cows)
--
In my view, a responsible functional drug user of hard drugs does things like these:
- Purchase a decent milligram scales to weigh quantities.
- Purchase a timelock safe if the drugs you take alter perception of time.
- Take one drug at a time to avoid drug interactions and know the half-life for those drugs.
- Use a drug testing kits to ensure you have what you think you have.
I think this is just common sense. You can acquire all of the above for less than $200
tldr; You should apply the same precautions taken when you take pharmaceutical drugs, to illegal drugs, with a dollop of common sense.
Conflict of Interest Disclosure: I will be selling drug testing kits on the Silk Road in the future 8)
qft
-
It's not exaggerated at all lol. I live in the meth capitol, and the biggest town for meth iin the USA is about 20 minutes from me. You can always spot a user (For quite a long period).
-
I know quite a few people who use meth, all except are recreational users, some Saturday night partiers, most of them no more than one big night a fortnight, and maybe a few little hits to keep them going. Most of them have been using for 6 months plus, none of them meth mouth, most have occasionally bad skin.
The other one he says he has used every day for 4 years from what of seen very large amounts - enough to kill a herd of elephants. He is a mess. Meth mouth but no where as bad as the add photos, his skin his OK, he has the body of a super model - aneroxic. The sad thing is his mental state, he is totally deluded, and just cant function. I really hope he gets help soon. He spent 3 weeks in hospital recently and I hope he has cut back.
I think this is similar to all drugs, even alcohol. I had a long term girlfriend who was an alcoolic and there wasnt to much difference between her state and his - except she was much more violent and aggressive.
You seem to hear a lot about people on meth getting voilent and aggressive, I have never seen this.
So I think occassional use is OK, but definitely dont do it everyday.
I know when I am meth, I think I am brilliant, but actually I am much more brilliant straight (and I am not bragging).
It is a fun drug but like everything that is fun, there is such a thing as too much fun.
I like the idea of a time lock save. Tonight I was going to have one pipe-full to get through the housework, and save the rest for Saturday night, and now I have one pipe-full left for Saturday night, and a good buzz on, and still haven't done the housework, but have done a gorgeuos painting of my cat - he is iradescent yellow.
-
I've worked in medicine for the better part of a decade and I've seen a lot of addicts. I can tell you I've seen meth do this to people in a few months. It's amazing, and fucking scary. Obviously I enjoy drugs, I'm here, but I won't touch meth or heroin after what I've seen. Offering someone meth is like offering them HIV. If you're stuck on it, sorry to hear it and good luck, but if you're not: don't touch that shit for any reason. Even if you get clean, you will crave it until you die, it never goes away. Being away from it is the only way to stay clean, because if it's there you will use it.
Very true! This shit is fucking dangerous!
Close family member is currently in rehab, he was on meth for about 8 months, I didn't recognise him!
I wouldn't wish Meth addiction on anyone... Except LE and Julia Gillard (PM of AUST.)
-
I've worked in medicine for the better part of a decade and I've seen a lot of addicts. I can tell you I've seen meth do this to people in a few months. It's amazing, and fucking scary. Obviously I enjoy drugs, I'm here, but I won't touch meth or heroin after what I've seen. Offering someone meth is like offering them HIV. If you're stuck on it, sorry to hear it and good luck, but if you're not: don't touch that shit for any reason. Even if you get clean, you will crave it until you die, it never goes away. Being away from it is the only way to stay clean, because if it's there you will use it.
Seconded. So seconded. Seen a lot of crazy addicts in my day, and I've only spent a year or so in the field. Heroin and meth are gigantic NOPEs. I'll do just about anything but.
And no, meth mouth and such is by no means propaganda. Meth is acidic, so when smoked, it damages your teeth much like lemon juice or soda or whatever. Problem is, it's also a strong sympathomimetic, so it dries your mouth out and allows for greater accumulation of bacteria. Ta-da! Meth mouth!
Can meth mouth be avoided? Did "that one guy you know" use meth responsibly and to no ill effect? Sure, it's all possible (and I concede, that demographic is probably underrepresented in most discourse)... but it's definitely not propaganda.
No matter the administration method of meth or heroin, there's mounting evidence that they can inflict very serious damage to nearly every organ system in your body, beyond the immediately obvious. As said, I don't fux wit it.
-
If you want to see 'Faces of Meth', you should look at these guys:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2098507/Would-YOU-world-morning-face-We-challenged-bravest-writers-just-that.html
;D
-
The first pic looks like it has been touched up by Photoshop. If you look at the police badge, the one in the after pic is clearly blurred out while the before pic isn't. This has the effect of making the person look worse than otherwise.
-
I've worked in medicine for the better part of a decade and I've seen a lot of addicts. I can tell you I've seen meth do this to people in a few months. It's amazing, and fucking scary. Obviously I enjoy drugs, I'm here, but I won't touch meth or heroin after what I've seen. Offering someone meth is like offering them HIV. If you're stuck on it, sorry to hear it and good luck, but if you're not: don't touch that shit for any reason. Even if you get clean, you will crave it until you die, it never goes away. Being away from it is the only way to stay clean, because if it's there you will use it.
Seconded. So seconded. Seen a lot of crazy addicts in my day, and I've only spent a year or so in the field. Heroin and meth are gigantic NOPEs. I'll do just about anything but.
And no, meth mouth and such is by no means propaganda. Meth is acidic, so when smoked, it damages your teeth much like lemon juice or soda or whatever. Problem is, it's also a strong sympathomimetic, so it dries your mouth out and allows for greater accumulation of bacteria. Ta-da! Meth mouth!
Can meth mouth be avoided? Did "that one guy you know" use meth responsibly and to no ill effect? Sure, it's all possible (and I concede, that demographic is probably underrepresented in most discourse)... but it's definitely not propaganda.
No matter the administration method of meth or heroin, there's mounting evidence that they can inflict very serious damage to nearly every organ system in your body, beyond the immediately obvious. As said, I don't fux wit it.
Meth inhibits the production of saliva as well, causing massive a buildup of bacteria and undiluted acids. When patients are placed on ventilators even for a few days, their mouth has to be cared for quite a bit to ensure damage does not result from the same process. It also destroys the discs in your spine at an incredible rate, leaving most people who use for any appreciable period of time with long term problems which may not manifest for years. There are dozens more excellent reasons to stay away from it.
Another interesting fact is that unlike many drugs which stimulate a release of endorphins by causing pleasure or reward stimuli, amphetamines directly and artificially create this effect. This causes the brain to malfunction by no longer producing the effect itself, literally taking the pleasure out of everything but more meth. Motor neurons can also be affected over time, causing all kinds of impairments.
Remember that study they illegalized MDMA with, where they claimed it "ate wholes in your brain" and all that bullshit? Well, the scientist who produced the study later voided it. There was significant brain damage, but because the study used meth by accident due to a labeling error.
See this brief abstract of an article in the Journal of Neuroscience:
[Dr. Paul Thompson, an expert on brain mapping at the University of California, Los Angeles, said the MRI study showed "a forest fire of brain damage." He added, "We expected some brain changes, but didn't expect so much tissue to be destroyed."
The study involved 22 individuals in their 30s who used methamphetamine for 10 years. The MRI showed an 11-percent loss of tissue in the brain's limbic region, which is involved in drug craving, reward, mood, and emotion. "The cells are dead and gone," Dr. Thompson said.
Furthermore, the study found an 8-percent loss in the hippocampus region, which is involved in making new memories. ]
Some patients I have treated for gunshot wounds to the head have recovered with less damage, in less time than it usually takes to get off meth... So I guess you literally could say a bullet to the head might be better.
-
I've done meth twice, and the last time I did it i enjoyed the hell out of it but decided not to touch it again for a long time. Not gonna say I won't do it again but I can say it definitely didnt get me "hooked" and my supplier was my neighbor so I could get it anytime I wanted it, I just chose not to. I ended up doing a lot of nothing but enjoying the buzz. I wasn't very productive. It all comes down to responsibility.
Imagine what a mcdonalds burger does to your fuckin stomach. A scientist kept a burger fries and chicken nuggets from McD's out on his counter for 2 year, that shit looked EXACTLY the same and had not begun to rot or deteriorate by any means like real food does. Think about how that shit treats your stomach. Think about how much that fluoride in your water makes you not give a shit. And you won't touch meth? You're already fuckin with worse.
-
Imagine what a mcdonalds burger does to your fuckin stomach. A scientist kept a burger fries and chicken nuggets from McD's out on his counter for 2 year, that shit looked EXACTLY the same and had not begun to rot or deteriorate by any means like real food does. Think about how that shit treats your stomach. Think about how much that fluoride in your water makes you not give a shit. And you won't touch meth? You're already fuckin with worse.
lolwut ???
http://nomsandsciunce.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/why-wont-those-mcdonalds-burgers-go-bad/
^Why McDonald's burgers don't go bad
As for fluoridation, well... have you never wondered why I only drink distilled water, or rainwater? And why I only drink pure grain alcohol? It seems you already realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face.
Really, now. Really.
An estimated 400,000,000 people receive fluoridated water, not including countries that ingest through alternative methods (fluoridated table salt, etc). McDonald's exists in ~120 countries and serves an estimated 68,000,000 daily. Something tells me that if that number of people did meth as frequently as they ate fast food or drank tap water... it might be a little nastier in here. I won't tell you that the prevalence of fast food isn't causing its own problems... but seriously? Seriously?
As for yaosh, seconded again.
-
Yes, it's all real. Just like heroin and crack, there are things you fuck with and things you don't fuck with. Meth is one of those things you don't fuck with. Is it guaranteed to devour your soul and destroy your life? No, but there is a very high probability that it will.
Personally, I stick to the empathogenic drugs and only recommend those.
-
Meth is the only drug that I am glad they have laws for.
-
Heroin and crack are nothing compared to meth in terms of addiction. Well, heroin might be, but it is a much slower process. Heroin is an evil drug but I don't crave it after using it about a dozen times. Meth I used about a dozen times and I still get the occasional craving for it, similar to a cigarette craving but stronger. But only for a few minutes, and very rarely. But this is seven years after using the shit last and I only smoked it a dozen times. It is super super super addictive. I suggest avoiding it. Amphetamine is much less addictive. On the other hand, if I kept using heroin for a month or two I would probably be in the same boat. Heroin is a more sneaky addicition. I think it is easier to get addicted to meth than to heroin, but in both cases you are fucked if you get addicted imo. It is really hard for me to pick which is worse, they are both bad in different ways, but in pure addictiveness meth wins imo.
Crack is over rated, I don't see how anyone can enjoy rushing so intensely. Tried it once and never plan to again. I very well may try meth or heroin again, but I have a limit for 4 more times with heroin that I set before I used it the first time. Meth if I use it again I will need to set a limit, but I really probably wont use it again just because why make myself get cravings for it even more its been seven fucking years after 12 uses and I still get cravings every now and then.
-
A craving for something is hardly an addiction, I get a craving for chocolate - but I would never say I am a chocolate addict (maybe I am). But a true addiction is when you just can't function without it. You cant get out of bed, you are physically sick. Just thinking you want it is not an addiction.
I agree that meth addiction can be bad, but so are all addictions. I have been addicted to gambling, it has made me feel suicidal, sick, lose friends.
I think there is a safe level of drugs, that as long as you are responsible, and moderate, and dont let them take over your life. I know people who in very respectable positions who recreationally use drugs maybe one weekend a month they use.
Some do go over the edge and ruin the lives, but some do the same on alcohol, gambling or other areas of their live.
We all need to escape reallity sometimes.
-
We all need to escape reallity sometimes.
But WHY is that the case? I think it could be because you have to go down before you come up. Old D&D lore and the subject of every mythology in every culture in the world.
Take men for example. In general they do things which are more extreme than women. They make the world's best generals, the worst rapists, the best investors and risk takers, and the worst insurers. There is some kind of spectrum along which all that activity is united.
You cannot have greatness without fear, nor love without despair. It is the second law of Newton's Thermodynamics in the human spirit:
"For every action, there will be an equal but opposite reaction"
-
Heroin is addictive in the fact that after a while you become dependent on it, and if you don't have it you get incredibly sick. I guess it the high is addictive too but if it were not for the withdrawals it would be much easier to kick.
Meth is more addictive and it has barely any withdrawal symptoms other than the fact your body has been on overdrive so you need sleep, water and nutrients. That shows you how powerful it is. People fresh out of prison will have no problem risking their freedom to get high on meth, even if they know they will go back to prison relatively quickly. They consider it 'worth it.'
-
tldr; You should apply the same precautions taken when you take pharmaceutical drugs, to illegal drugs, with a dollop of common sense.
Conflict of Interest Disclosure: I will be selling drug testing kits on the Silk Road in the future 8)
what pine said/the whole thing.
also, the girl in your pic looks cute
-
meth is serious business, while government adds might well be showing worst case scenarios its not the same as the 'reefer madness' at all.
It IS really addictive, it IS really bad for your body and mind.
That said your not gona get physical cravings after afew bumps/burns or whatever, your teeth arnt gona fall out if you use it sparingly. but still be careful, potentially really bad stuff if it turn out to be your drug of choice
-
Imagine what a mcdonalds burger does to your fuckin stomach. A scientist kept a burger fries and chicken nuggets from McD's out on his counter for 2 year, that shit looked EXACTLY the same and had not begun to rot or deteriorate by any means like real food does. Think about how that shit treats your stomach. Think about how much that fluoride in your water makes you not give a shit. And you won't touch meth? You're already fuckin with worse.
lolwut ???
As for fluoridation, well... have you never wondered why I only drink distilled water, or rainwater? And why I only drink pure grain alcohol? It seems you already realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face.
+1 for the Dr. Strangelove quote. Oh, Kubrick, how I miss thee.
As far as meth goes, I've tried it once. Will never do it again. I'll stick to the psychedelics, weed, and empathogens that are much less harmful on the body. There was a somewhat recent study that ranked different recreational drugs on the body. Alcohol, heroin, and meth were close to the top. MDMA, LSD, mushrooms, and weed were pretty much at the bottom. I think I'll stick to those.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210
But hey, I also believe that if you want to shoot heroin or smoke crack, you should have that right so long as you're not directly hurting others. Hell, alcohol is legal, and if taken in excess for long periods of time, can wreak havoc on pretty much every organ in your body.
-
meth is serious business, while government adds might well be showing worst case scenarios its not the same as the 'reefer madness' at all.
It IS really addictive, it IS really bad for your body and mind.
That said your not gona get physical cravings after afew bumps/burns or whatever, your teeth arnt gona fall out if you use it sparingly. but still be careful, potentially really bad stuff if it turn out to be your drug of choice
I disagree. Smoking meth a few times can cause you to develop spontaneous cravings for it (although I am not sure if I would consider them physical....it really is best compared to a nicotine craving. I don't know if even heavy use of meth will cause physical cravings though...that is the heroin route of addiction. With meth it is mental) , and apparently they don't go away much if at all over time. For me, the spontaneous cravings are sometimes intense even, but pass after a few minutes. And they are very rare. But I was by no means a heavy or even regular meth user. I smoked it about a dozen times and sniffed it once. I think smoked it is probably far more addictive, a lot of the craving is just for the feel of the smoke and the full process of melting it down and twisting the pipe and blowing out a huge ass cloud of smooth cool chemical smoke.
for me I define a meth craving as a spontaneous thought about meth, with a strange sort of vivis/primal recall about the effects and process of smoking it in the past (remembering what it is like to feel the high, have the smoke in my lungs etc), and an almost subconcious desire / drive to repeat that process , despite my actual concious state not wanting to experience that drive / desire / 'sensory recall'
-
tldr; You should apply the same precautions taken when you take pharmaceutical drugs, to illegal drugs, with a dollop of common sense.
Conflict of Interest Disclosure: I will be selling drug testing kits on the Silk Road in the future 8)
what pine said/the whole thing.
also, the girl in your pic looks cute
She is clickflashwhirr and she is far more elegant with a larger resolution.
http://secure.flickr.com/photos/clickflashwhirr/5483790718/lightbox/
-
The best tip i give people about someone using meth is that you can't trust anything they say, it's not just that reality is absent, but it seems that (imo) they don't even realise they've lost the truth!
Its almost a dead give away when my pot clients come in high on ice, sit there jittering away and spinning bullshit at a rate of knots! They're usually told I'm off from then on, never to reup! Really don't like playing god with ganja, b ut meth brings an unwanted element to my otherwise relaxed bud business! (No I don't trade on SR, I'm a bit gutless like that!)
-
I agree, I won't deal with customers who are on meth or rock. Just too much volatility. I don't need some strung out person with artificially induced paranoid schizophrenia getting twitchy on me.
-
I agree, I won't deal with customers who are on meth or rock. Just too much volatility. I don't need some strung out person with artificially induced paranoid schizophrenia getting twitchy on me.
That's why having an online interface like SR is such a boon. Buyers/Sellers have to put up with far less bullshit. In real life if you say to a junkie that I'm not selling to you, well, they could easily fuck you over by going to the police or pulling a robbery. That is why drug dealers have to resort to violence to transact business to have some semblance of normality. A web based transaction is better for all involved.
-
wow, i'd never expect such volatile stances to be taken against meth on SR forums...
man, i've done meth at parties, it doesn't make you a psychopathy-prone tweaker unless you're going on some several day-long binge. christ, coke heads are more volatile than meth users. of course, when you're dealing with an obvious addict, it doesn't matter what their drug of choice is, as whether it's coke, heroin, or meth, they're likely to go apeshit and fuck up your scene.
let's be a little more understanding, esp on SR of all places lol
-
wow, i'd never expect such volatile stances to be taken against meth on SR forums...
let's be a little more understanding, esp on SR of all places lol
The difference is society makes moral judgements about drug use - we are not judging here. We're discussing risks and practicalities which I think is pretty positive.
Separately, it's been pointed out that just trying meth will not make everyone an addict. No doubt true but the more important question is _how likely_ is it to happen compared to other drugs.
For example if people do MDMA a dozen times X% will end up ruining their lives over it. If people do meth a dozen times Y% will end up ruining their life.
We can't know exacts, but is Y significantly greater than X, or when compared to other drugs?
It's all about the likelihood of it fucking you, not whether there is a chance it won't.
-
man, i've done meth at parties, it doesn't make you a psychopathy-prone tweaker unless you're going on some several day-long binge.
This statement reiterates what i was saying, people who use meth become detached from reality, saying there's nothing wrong with using meth while their teeth and hair fall out!
-
in fact, if anyone is actually interested in this type of lifestyle and the psych of an addict, go read Burroughs's "Junky" - great portrait of the lifestyle and mindset of an addict
Burrough's also said that he had better morals as a heroin pusher in New York than he did as a cattle farmer in Texas. A bit off topic but something I found funny sorry. That book gives a great description however it was written over 50 years ago and things have changed a lot since then. Still a good read.
-
but then we come to "is it the drugs that ruin these people?" or "are these people set to destroy themselves by any means necessary"?
like, enough people have had enough addictions and still been functional, if not even productive, during their lives, and at the same time, you have people that waste away, even without drugs.
so.... there's a time and place for everything, even meth?
but i figure things that don't in any way make themselves conducive to some sort of productivity, such as smoking crack, or shooting coke, seem to just be the closest thing to a literal escape for some people for a few moments, possibly due to a lack of ability/ inability to enjoy life.
i don't know, it seems counterintuitive to me to imagine the high from that. i understand you feel amazing and all, but... it seems like the closest iteration/manifestation of the matrix that one can subject themselves to - you feel great for a few minutes, while in non-subjective reality, you're geeking out and probably destroying brain cells
lol?
-
so.... there's a time and place for everything, even meth?
Yes, there's a time and a place for meth. They're called, war and hell. Very useful for turning normal men into focused, ruthless murderers who give no thought to normal human needs like food, safety, sleep or compassion. I'm sure the military maintains a stockpile of meth, you know, just in case.
-
I'm not sure there's a real need to villify meth to that point. It isn't evil. It's just very, very strong. People bring the flaws into the equation, and that's where the problems come from.
Like many others, I've done meth casually. Semi-regularly, even, though not in a long ass time. I know, I know, anecdotal evidence doesn't prove much. But I think it does prove that the stuff isn't inherently evil. Just strong.
Stronger than a lot of people, basically.
-
I'm not sure there's a real need to villify meth to that point.
I was being straight up serious. Militaries the world over have historically used methamphetamine since WWII. I'm sure it's tightly controlled, but I'm also pretty sure they keep it stockpiled. If I had to go into combat, I'd sure like some too. In some situations, it helps to be a little crazy like that I guess.
Someone was asking about it for raves and all night dancing and it fits that role perfectly as well, but... this is some really bad shit. I wouldn't take it casually like that, personally. But in a war zone where I might have to be blowing peoples heads off and shit, maybe get mine blown off and the last thing I want is to be distracted with minor little details like being human, ok, yea, I'd do it, for sure. It's just hypothetical, though, lol. You couldn't drag my ass to a war zone. I would seriously, like, flee to Canada or some shit like that. But just saying, "Does meth have a place"? Yes, it does. Definitely. And everyone knows it: war.
Apparently it's also useful for ADD. Bet they don't proscribe it for that much, though, lol.
-
pretty sure it was a drugs inc. docco on nat geo, saying something like 60- 70% of the working population in thailand is on some form of methamphetamine! Not sure if its true, propaganda or a stoned confusion!
Validated/Refuted?
-
holy fuck. meth is really no more different than speed. it doesn't make you evil, or numb your feelings. yes, you can use it and go on a killing spree, but at that rate, you couldav just shot amobarb, or valium. so it's all in the eye of the beholder.
really, since when do we vilify any drug on here, with complete disregard to actual facts?
that sounds like something ignorant people do IRL :S
-
i don't know, it seems counterintuitive to me to imagine the high from that. i understand you feel amazing and all, but... lol?
Easy for you to say
Your heart has never been
broken Your pride has never been stolen...
:)
-
... with complete disregard to actual facts?
Do you dispute the fact that it's used in militaries? Meth came into prominence during WWII where it was widely distributed to soldiers on both sides. No one was handing out valiums, at least not going IN TO combat, that's for damn sure, lol. It's a very useful chemical for war. It increases morale, fills its user with a supreme sense of confidence and determination, it invigorates even the most fatigued man, making him just *bursting* with energy. And, yes, maybe it doesn't immediately and directly over-ride the users complete morale system, but it definitely facilitates a mental break from reality, which only grows and grows until your doing shit you never imagined morally possible, with complete confidence and determination.
I'm saying this *is* historically (as well as currently) society's moral justification for meth usage. If you're morally disturbed by that fact and consider it a "vilification," I can't blame you! Maybe *you've* never used it that way, but this is the shit your dealing with, like it or not. At least know it and accept it for what it is.
That being said, is it the end of the world? No. Is even the tiniest consumption of meth a sentence to hell as evil incarnate? No, obviously not. But it is not something to be fucked with lightly. Would I want some going into a combat situation? Definitely. Would I want my fellow combatants charged up with some meth? Definitely. Would I want my enemy combatants to be charged up on meth? Definitely not. Would an E pill with a little meth in it be better than straight molly for dancing all night at a rave? Yes, it would. Would I recreationally hole up and spend a weekend smoking meth? No fucking way. Would it be enjoyable if I did? I'm sure it would be beyond words. Can prolonged use of meth deteriorate my teeth, my skin, my body and my brain? Yes, it can fuck you up real bad. Can any use of meth cause powerful, incessant cravings to use more meth? You betcha. Can continued use of meth cause a mental separation from reality and lead to endless justifications to continue using meth, despite ANY negative impacts on your life? I'm betting that's a big YEPPERS!
I'm not on some meth crusade. But if someone's thinking about doing it, like, straight meth, not just some dance combo, You oughta be up front with them and let them know, this shit is not to be fucked with lightly. Here's what we know...
-
i don't know, it seems counterintuitive to me to imagine the high from that. i understand you feel amazing and all, but... lol?
Easy for you to say
Your heart has never been
broken Your pride has never been stolen...
:)
lol, i beg to differ, but i chose (and would repeat in the future) to drown my sorrows and numb my pain with valium :P
-
stuff stuff stuff
ok, again, there's just as much "want to do it again" with meth as there is with weed. it feels nice, you like how you feel on it, sobriety is a nasty bitch, 99 problems, etc.
but then again, we come back to: person in question's willpower, how shitty their real life is, outstanding mental issues, psychological makeup, etc. all these factors have more of an influence on whether you'll want to smoke your brains out until your lungs recrystalize (lol), or if you can keep it in your pants until you really need to/have a good reason.
and like i said (i think i did), when i did meth, and when i was coming down, i had no GOD DESTROYING URGE to do more, i just wanted to get sleep, there was no reason to keep racing, and so i come back to the fact that meth is a PSYCHOLOGICALLY addicting drug, technically no more addictive than weed. yes, realistically, there's a lot of things taht factor in to someone's prolonged use and all that. but where using heroin casually will make you sensitive to pain and cause insomnia, using meth casually shouldn't produce any serious ill effects.
and with the teeth rotting, lung bursting: that's more so the POP/SODA you drink, the caustic nature of meth smoke, or the cigarettes that you will be chainsmoking while high, etc, rather than the meth itself. and you can reduce the impact of these things with some smart tactics, like drinking non-corrosive beverages, moderating meth use, not smoking - snorting or eating, so yeah
in summation, yes, i agree we should tell people like it is. but providing people with skewed information is more damaging, as someone who's been told that, say, weed is the goddamn devil and all, finds out that it is quite the opposite and would then extrapolate his learnings to other things: "if weed isn't the devil they made it out to be, so i bet the same goes for meth and heroin."
everything has a dark side, but the discovery of this evil lies more so within the individual, as opposed to inherent characteristics, of say meth lol
did i miss something?
-
Regarding the statement that drug users are morons, this is only partially correct. The most visible drug users are morons, these are the people that become violent, commit crimes against people to get their score, are generally unemployed and if werent making trouble with drugs, would make trouble in another way.
There is a much larger group of drug users, who function quite well in society, do not commit any crimes (besides using , and being in contact with dealers (who are often just thugs). If drugs were legal they would be completely law-abiding.
Ice is no worse than any many other drug, or bad habit, even McDonald's to excess leads to bad health and can cause major health problems, even a cruel and slow death. I think ice should be able the same harm as cocaine, speed, not out in head of everything. H is definitely worse, much more physically addictive, LSD and strong hallogenics, blow up your brain much easier. Even Hash, grass, makes it more difficult to function in society, after a weekend on ice, I can just go to work on Monday, maybe exhausted by the end of the day, but reasonably productive, whereas the potheads in the office, dont achieve anything until at least Wednesday. The fact is if you look after yourself, you can afford to have a vice or two. When I use meth, I take extra vitamins, there is a few foods that I can eat even after large amounts of ice - Watermelon, one or two cruskits, protein shakes (have to force), ice cream are the main ones, to prevent meth mouth which is largely caused by teeth grinding, I try not to grind and suck on mints, which should help. I also clean teeth before I start using, after and if a long period during, I use large amounts only once or twice a week. Having said that if you read meth recipes, you wonder WTF - I smoke that and it makes me feel good? But as long as you stay safe, seek help when required (if you feel really crappy - vommiting, cramps - go to a hospital, they will only help not bust you). From what I can see the major risk is in cutting agents or poorly manufactured meth. Legalisation would definitely eliminate most of the deaths by having a product with less lethal additives, or back yard manufacture.
So as long as you are not one of the morons the writer below is talking about, and you take care, and take advise when friends say it is fucking you up (you probably won't) it is possible to take meth safely. Also I think he should apologise to members of this forum, very few of the moron drug users have the ability to use this site, and are to busy making trouble to even try. Most of the members here would fit into the well functioning members of society (outcast branch). They mighn't agree entirely with what you say, may have had a bad experience (or family member) with ice, but that is no reason to insult them. We are all in this for a good time.
-
Funway, I am basically agreeing with you said, I just dont think there is any need to insult other people on the forum. We all have a different viewpoint, if my sister became a meth-head and ended up in a mental asylym (not likely she is not a moron), I would be against meth (maybe). Meth can cause horrendous damage. But so can a lot of other things, I dont know if you country has graphic pictures on cigarette packets. Here some of the pictures make the bad meth mouth look like supermodels.
I really think we are agreeing but I think we are coming to site this site for a good time, or maybe an education, and we shouldn't just insult people. I dont think these harm reduction forums are as bad as the Rumor Mills - shuffling through the insults, egos, and bullshit make it impossible to really drudge, I know this isnt the site for rules/censorship, but I believe some comments should be removed (not yours, except for a few insults it was interesting). And who doesnt enjoy a bit of an argument(know I am contradicting myself ...but)
I think I might form a commitee for more friendly forums (look what commitees do for government).
I am raving a bit tonight, have had a good smoke of meth. Which probably at least partially proofs are point, I think my comments are not totally outrageous. The world hasnt ended for me, I am not going to disappear into a cloak of white smoke (unless I follow Alice). I will make it to work tomorrow, be a bit tired tomorrow night but all is good. If I was on even Hash, weed I would really struggle to make it to work today (5 am here). I think ice allows you to function at a reasonably high level but sometimes not at quite the level you think.
I also stopped smoking about 6 hours ago have about 3/4 g left and have absolutely no inclination to have more, and probably wont until Saturday night. I actually find it easy to stop, so I dont know what all this addictive stuff is about. I have been addicted to other things but ice seems safe, perhaps I am older and maturer.
Happy Valentines day
-
wow, i'd never expect such volatile stances to be taken against meth on SR forums...
man, i've done meth at parties, it doesn't make you a psychopathy-prone tweaker unless you're going on some several day-long binge. christ, coke heads are more volatile than meth users. of course, when you're dealing with an obvious addict, it doesn't matter what their drug of choice is, as whether it's coke, heroin, or meth, they're likely to go apeshit and fuck up your scene.
let's be a little more understanding, esp on SR of all places lol
holy fuck. meth is really no more different than speed. it doesn't make you evil, or numb your feelings. yes, you can use it and go on a killing spree, but at that rate, you couldav just shot amobarb, or valium. so it's all in the eye of the beholder.
really, since when do we vilify any drug on here, with complete disregard to actual facts?
that sounds like something ignorant people do IRL :S
Don't bother. 90% of the people participating in this thread are morons.
Go in to a prison and you will find a bunch of noble people who are down on their luck, and a few depraved pedophiles. When you are dealing with morons, you will always have a scapegoat. Of course most of those people in prison didn't molest any kids, but the only reason that they didn't is because they didn't have the urge to. If they did, they would have. That's why they are locked up, because they do as they please no matter who it hurts. They just didn't happen to hurt children, so they pretend that it excuses them.
Drug users are mostly morons too. They are looked down on by society, but they like to say that they aren't so bad. Really, it's the heroin users who are the worst. Oh wait, this isn't the 90's any more. Heroin users are fine, its the tweakers who are the worst! Meth! Hitler! Teeth falling out! Let's all spin around in circles and have a panic attack! Yup, society is wrong for looking down on us. Us drug users are great people! It's just the meth users that are bad!
I have used meth daily for most of the past year. Before that it was adderall, but for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread it was no longer an option. So I did some research, and decided that meth would work as a replacement. I use between 5 and 15 milligrams per day orally. I have never snorted it. I have never smoked it. I have never had any problems with it. It is just another amphetamine. If you look closely at the molecule, you will find that there is an added methyl group. Not an added Hitler group, not an added devil group. An added methyl group. Seriously.
People compare meth to crack in this thread. Crack is not a drug. Crack is a specific preparation of a drug, cocaine. Compare meth to cocaine and you will understand it better. Crack heads are more often than not desperate addicts. People who snort cocaine usually less so, and often quite functional. Sometimes they go between extremes, or stay somewhere in the middle. Then you have the people who drink coca tea instead of coffee, or who chew the leaves. They almost never have serious problems.
So why are we comparing meth to crack? In what way does that make sense?
This thread is full of such ridiculous nonsense that it isn't worth responding to most of it. I'll throw out some absolutely mindbending (to those with small minds) things for you guys to consider. If you neglect food and sleep for days at a time, you will shrivel up. Meth is not necessary. Ever notice that anorexics that don't use meth lose their teeth? Teeth aren't dead hunks of calcium in your mouth. They are alive. If you don't get proper nutrition, they will die. The magical demonic methyl group doesn't make teeth fall out. Not eating does.
And did someone actually say that meth is acidic? WTF? Meth is a base. In salt form it is neutral. It is never acidic. Is ignorance of basic chemistry a prerequisite to participating in this thread? If so, I apologize for posting here.
did i miss something?
Yes, you are in a discussion with morons. Don't bother. I have been in 2 different discussions on this forum where people claimed that methamphetamine is worlds away from amphetamine in neurotoxicity. They claimed to have proof, but couldn't deliver anything more than journal articles that had the word methamphetamine in them. Apparently all you have to do in order to make a valid argument is claim something and then throw a bunch of journal articles at someone without even quoting relevant parts (which is hard if there are none) and then it is over.
Pot heads, crack heads, meth heads. All annoying in their own ways. All 3 of those types of drug users have stolen from me in order to get more. I look down on all of them. Not because of the drug they use, but because of their obsessive, selfish, and in the case of pot heads, holier than thou attitude. If you live for the drug, you suck. Piss off and stay out of my life. I like drugs more than most, but I have things to do in the real world. Not things I have to do in order to get more drugs or to stay alive so I can do more drugs. Things I actually enjoy doing. Things that have nothing to do with drugs.
Don't bother trying to reason with these people. You have used meth. Evil has touched your soul, and Jesus will never forgive you. Even hell will not let you in now. After your teeth and hair fall out, you will die. You will be left formless to wander the earth. A schizophrenic parkinsons addled ghost. You won't be able to haunt the innocent humans of this earth though. Nobody will be able to see you, except for the meth addicts who have been awake for a week. Ever hear of the shadow people? They are the lost souls of dead meth addicts. The people posting here are no dummies. They know all about your sad destiny. They see through your evil lies.
Just let them have their little "I am a responsible drug user because I don't use meth" party in this thread. Kids will be kids. Most will never grow up.
oh god. will you have my toothless, anorexic, god-frosaken children? <3<3<3
-
Just finishing a 3 day meth binge, no teeth missing yet, haven't gone crazy and bitten the dog. All good...this time.
Eating a real meal for first time since Sunday, and I think it might be better than meth.
Now some sleep and to stop raving on these forums. Feeling amazingly good. Showing great control still have heaps siting around, around not even tempted. So addiction in check. All good.
-
Just finishing a 3 day meth binge, no teeth missing yet, haven't gone crazy and bitten the dog. All good...this time.
Eating a real meal for first time since Sunday, and I think it might be better than meth.
Now some sleep and to stop raving on these forums. Feeling amazingly good. Showing great control still have heaps siting around, around not even tempted. So addiction in check. All good.
but dude, what if you were so high that you killed your dog and pulled out your teeth, but you haven't realized it yet.
.... LOL
-
As someone who has both used and been around users of both meth and amphetamine, I can say with 100% certainty that meth is 10000000000X more destructive and addictive than amphetamine is. I really must think that anyone who disagrees either has no idea what they are talking about or is in total denial. I guess I should assume that everyone is different, but I have seen enough meth users and amphetamine users that I can see the general trend. Plus I used amphetamine almost daily for a few months and don't feel at all addicted to it nor do I get strong cravings for it ever (although I sure wouldn't mind having some ;) ). I smoked meth 12 times and still get strong cravings for it 7 years later.
Plus the people on amphetamine I hung out with were generally nice normal people. Most of the meth users I hung out with were thieving selfish fucktards who would steal from their own mothers to get more meth.
Of course not all meth users can't be trusted at all. Hell, maybe even the majority of them. but if I had the choice between hanging out with regular meth users or regular amphetamine users I would pick regular amphetamine users in a heart beat. IMO and IME amphetamine is like a soft drug compared to meth.
and so i come back to the fact that meth is a PSYCHOLOGICALLY addicting drug, technically no more addictive than weed.
Yeah that is a bunch of bullshit but whatever
and with the teeth rotting
Pretty sure it is actually a direct result of meths pharmaceutical effect of decreased salvation and increased vasoconstriction, but whatever
If you look closely at the molecule, you will find that there is an added methyl group. Not an added Hitler group, not an added devil group. An added methyl group. Seriously.
Snort NaCL. Now snort NA. Then take a breath of Cl. Seriously.
I have been in 2 different discussions on this forum where people claimed that methamphetamine is worlds away from amphetamine in neurotoxicity.
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/amphetamines/amphetamines_health.shtml
Stress & Oxidative Damage: Methamphetamine causes stress to the body and mind and causes an increase in oxidative stress in blood and tissues. At very high doses and frequencies of use, organ damage and premature aging may occur.
Frequency: common.
Certainty: some evidence.
Neurotoxicity (Methamphetamine): At high doses, methamphetamine causes damage to dopamine and serotonin neurons in the brain [Seiden 1976, Thompson 2004]. Long term use may lead to noticeable neurological and behavioral problems. This effect is well documented with methamphetamine in mice and now largely confirmed in humans; behavioral/clinical effects of this damage is not well documented in humans [Hanson 2004].
Frequency: unknown.
Certainty: link established in rodents, exact nature unclear in humans.
Neurotoxicity (D/L-Amphetamine): Neurotoxicity with D/L amphetamine (most of what is prescribed as medications) is not as well documented, but at very high doses and frequencies, neurotoxicity does occur in mice and rats. [Jonsson 1982]
Frequency: unknown.
Certainty: unknown.
-
As someone who has both used and been around users of both meth and amphetamine, I can say with 100% certainty that meth is 10000000000X more destructive and addictive than amphetamine is. I really must think that anyone who disagrees either has no idea what they are talking about or is in total denial. I guess I should assume that everyone is different, but I have seen enough meth users and amphetamine users that I can see the general trend. Plus I used amphetamine almost daily for a few months and don't feel at all addicted to it nor do I get strong cravings for it ever (although I sure wouldn't mind having some ;) ). I smoked meth 12 times and still get strong cravings for it 7 years later.
Plus the people on amphetamine I hung out with were generally nice normal people. Most of the meth users I hung out with were thieving selfish fucktards who would steal from their own mothers to get more meth.
This is what's known as "anecdotal evidence." Basically, it means next to nothing. Your experience can't be extrapolated to the entire drug-using world, regardless of how long you've been using. You can't know everyone who's ever done meth or coke or speed; you can't even know a decent fraction of them. So, maybe that's the way things are in your area, with the people you interact with, but it really doesn't have any bearing outside of that.
For example - My personal experience is the total reverse of yours. Cokeheads and amphetamine users are usually skeevy schemers, while meth users don't even leave the house very often. They just dick around doing idle shit until someone comes to hang with them. But by no means do I assume this to be true for all meth/coke users everywhere. :P
-
As someone who has both used and been around users of both meth and amphetamine, I can say with 100% certainty that meth is 10000000000X more destructive and addictive than amphetamine is. I really must think that anyone who disagrees either has no idea what they are talking about or is in total denial. I guess I should assume that everyone is different, but I have seen enough meth users and amphetamine users that I can see the general trend. Plus I used amphetamine almost daily for a few months and don't feel at all addicted to it nor do I get strong cravings for it ever (although I sure wouldn't mind having some ;) ). I smoked meth 12 times and still get strong cravings for it 7 years later.
wait, so you smoked amphetamine before?
Plus the people on amphetamine I hung out with were generally nice normal people. Most of the meth users I hung out with were thieving selfish fucktards who would steal from their own mothers to get more meth.
Of course not all meth users can't be trusted at all. Hell, maybe even the majority of them. but if I had the choice between hanging out with regular meth users or regular amphetamine users I would pick regular amphetamine users in a heart beat. IMO and IME amphetamine is like a soft drug compared to meth.
ok, and d-amphetamine is like... nearly indistinguishable in effects from meth. if you wanted to talk about U4Euh, then maybe... ssince that's different.
otherwise, i myself have hung out with potheads and stoners that run the full gamut. and some of these people were like family, and others were cocksucking assholes. GEE, I THINK IT'S THE KUSH THESE GUYS SMOKE THAT MAKES THEM ONE WAY, BECAUSE I READ ON WIKIPEDIA THAT HIGH THC CAUSES PSYCHOSIS 60% OF THE TIME IN 10% OF THE 55% CONTROL STUDY GROUP, OF WHOM 50% WERE GIVEN PLACEBO.
and so i come back to the fact that meth is a PSYCHOLOGICALLY addicting drug, technically no more addictive than weed.
Yeah that is a bunch of bullshit but whatever
you're a fucking idiot. whatever.
and with the teeth rotting
Pretty sure it is actually a direct result of meths pharmaceutical effect of decreased salvation and increased vasoconstriction, but whatever
pretty sure it's partly due to the fact of decresead salivation, but im pretty sure ITS MORE SO due to the fact people get thirsty and drink caustic beverages, smoke ciggarettes compulsively, and smoking meth, which is obviously the least crackhead way to do, BUT WHATEVER, meth smoke is highly caustic in and of itself.
BUT WHATEVER.
If you look closely at the molecule, you will find that there is an added methyl group. Not an added Hitler group, not an added devil group. An added methyl group. Seriously.
Snort NaCL. Now snort NA. Then take a breath of Cl. Seriously.
[/quote]
are.. you kidding? with the EPIC CHEMISTRY KNOWLEDGE you possess, NOT TO MENTION, you're FUCKING AMAZING ANALOGY THERE. make yourself some phosgene gas and inhale some of that. less damaging than meth. guarantee you.
BUT.
WHATEVER.
I have been in 2 different discussions on this forum where people claimed that methamphetamine is worlds away from amphetamine in neurotoxicity.
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/amphetamines/amphetamines_health.shtml
Stress & Oxidative Damage: Methamphetamine causes stress to the body and mind and causes an increase in oxidative stress in blood and tissues. At very high doses and frequencies of use, organ damage and premature aging may occur.
Frequency: common.
Certainty: some evidence.
Neurotoxicity (Methamphetamine): At high doses, methamphetamine causes damage to dopamine and serotonin neurons in the brain [Seiden 1976, Thompson 2004]. Long term use may lead to noticeable neurological and behavioral problems. This effect is well documented with methamphetamine in mice and now largely confirmed in humans; behavioral/clinical effects of this damage is not well documented in humans [Hanson 2004].
Frequency: unknown.
Certainty: link established in rodents, exact nature unclear in humans.
Neurotoxicity (D/L-Amphetamine): Neurotoxicity with D/L amphetamine (most of what is prescribed as medications) is not as well documented, but at very high doses and frequencies, neurotoxicity does occur in mice and rats. [Jonsson 1982]
Frequency: unknown.
Certainty: unknown.
[/quote]
i dunno bro, you left out some highly credible sources like wikipedia.
why don't you tell me about neurotoxicity from mdma and mda and mdea.
whetorical question. please fucking don't. i already feel stupider reading what you wrote so far.
can't tell if trolling.... or just some alabaman hillbilly meth-head
hearsay, speculation, complete bullshit - i know, because i looked up my own ass, and i found exactly what you wrote. up there. inwriting.
the ridiculous rando articles you pull from erowid are just as dumb.
everybody knows that meth use involves a ton of other factor. and that the lab animals are given insanely high doses, in not exactly a great environment.
but whatever B/RO.
-
Plus the people on amphetamine I hung out with were generally nice normal people. Most of the meth users I hung out with were thieving selfish fucktards who would steal from their own mothers to get more meth.
Of course not all meth users can't be trusted at all. Hell, maybe even the majority of them. but if I had the choice between hanging out with regular meth users or regular amphetamine users I would pick regular amphetamine users in a heart beat. IMO and IME amphetamine is like a soft drug compared to meth.
I too have hung out with many users and their is little difference between meth and amphetamine users, I dont think I would pick who I hang out with based on the drug they use, there is much to life than drugs. What I have found is it is the heavy users of both that are likely to be the thieving selfish people and the recreational areas just reflect general society (mostly OK).
-
I think if you are going to argue that meth and weed are equally addictive that sane people can just ignore you from that point on.
And yeah my info is entirely ancedotal re; meth versus amphetamine, but all of the people arguing for meth being no worse than amphetamine are using entirely ancedotal evidence too.
The effects of meth and amphetamine I could tell apart any day, then again I never smoked amphetamine lol.
Meth fucking ruins people, I really just don't see amphetamine as being anywhere near as bad. If you can use meth regularly and be fine great for you but ime you are not in the majority , but I don't see people who use amphetamine regularly getting anywhere as near fucked up as meth users do.
are.. you kidding? with the EPIC CHEMISTRY KNOWLEDGE you possess, NOT TO MENTION, you're FUCKING AMAZING ANALOGY THERE. make yourself some phosgene gas and inhale some of that. less damaging than meth. guarantee you.
The point is simply that small changes to a chemical structure can cause insanely different effects.
You really have no room to call people stupid if you think weed and meth are equally addictive. Really I think the only people who would think that, must be addicted to meth and in major denial.
Use whatever the fuck you want and if it works for you great, I have nothing against meth users. I have something against people minimizing the harms of meth to justify their own behavior though. Saying meth and weed are equally addictive is just delusional.
-
Use whatever the fuck you want and if it works for you great, I have nothing against meth users. I have something against people minimizing the harms of meth to justify their own behavior though. Saying meth and weed are equally addictive is just delusional.
i may be delusional [not], but it's you who's ignorant. why don't you do some reading on the drugs you speak of.
weed = cravings that come from WANTING TO BE HIGH
meth = cravings that come from WANTING TO BE HIGH
heroin = cravings that come from PAIN YOUR BODY ISN'T USED TO AS IT'S PRODUCTION ON ENDORPHINS HAS BEEN REDUCED
barbiturates: cravings taht come, or convulsions that come
i may be fucking stupid, but at least im not ignorant. which you are. i don't care how many keys of crystal you banged - you're an idiot.
people that do a drug to escape their shitty life, are more likely to be bound to it, since it is a solace and refuge.
and you can't compare oral amphetamine use to smoking meth. or crack. or whatever else you were going to compare that IS LIKE FUCKING APPLES AND ORANGES.
idiot.
i'm not trying to compare shit, im jsut stating facts, that technically, meth is just as addictive as weed.
yes.
you know damn right that there's people who essentially experience weed withdrawal symptoms. and there's lots of first-hand experiences in this.
-
k whatever you say. Meth and weed are both just as addictive. You know there is such a thing as degree right? Just because they are both mentally and not physically addictive doesn't mean they are both equally mentally addictive. Anyone who has used meth or seen people who use it versus people who use weed will quickly be able to say which is more addictive. I don't see people holding up stores for their next joint, or giving up their families for weed or sucking dick for weed .. at least not anywhere near as much as for meth.
-
Meth is 100% safe. No one ever ruined their lives due to using meth... C'mon !
-
k whatever you say. Meth and weed are both just as addictive. You know there is such a thing as degree right? Just because they are both mentally and not physically addictive doesn't mean they are both equally mentally addictive. Anyone who has used meth or seen people who use it versus people who use weed will quickly be able to say which is more addictive. I don't see people holding up stores for their next joint, or giving up their families for weed or sucking dick for weed .. at least not anywhere near as much as for meth.
well then, nothing is safe! land? YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED IN TERITORIAL DISPUTES? FUCK ME
and what about sex? sex is such a scourge and addiction that not only do the tabloids and newspapers report about the SCOURGE OF SEX ADDICTION DESTROYING FAMILIES AND SHIT, but they have 12-step programs for OVER-COMING SEX ADDICTS.
man fuck you, it's called user your fucking head and some discretion.
ye, just as there are methheads whose sole purpose for living/survival rests on getting more meth/high, there are parallely people whose sole purpose relies solely on getting more weed and doing fuck all.
all those wangsta boo faggots with purple bandanas running around with their glock 9's, you think they causing a ruckus for some sort of self-glory? nah son,they want money to buy some fucking kush and xbox games. or better yet steal all of the above.
tl;dr: your analogy is stupid and you're trying to blame INANIMATE objects for the faults of REAL PEOPLE.
there is no reasoning with you, because you're an ignoramus and refuse to achknowledge facts.
you want to have an intelligible discussion? stop acting like a fucking republican mom who get sex-tips from sarah palin.
GO SUCK A BEAVER, EH
-
k whatever you say. Meth and weed are both just as addictive. You know there is such a thing as degree right? Just because they are both mentally and not physically addictive doesn't mean they are both equally mentally addictive. Anyone who has used meth or seen people who use it versus people who use weed will quickly be able to say which is more addictive. I don't see people holding up stores for their next joint, or giving up their families for weed or sucking dick for weed .. at least not anywhere near as much as for meth.
Only because the weed smokers are too apathetic to get and hold up a store, or sell their body. Go around there house and "Oh man, I have run out of grass, can you lend me $20". It just shows meth users have more initiative ;D
-
something tells me jewfro is a heavy meth user and takes anything bad said about meth (regardless of how true it is) as a personal attack on him....
telling people weed and meth are equally addictive (not that anyone would believe that) to make yourself feel better about using it isn't good :P
I really have nothing against meth users and have enjoyed a few times myself, but don't deny that meth is serious shit, comparing it to weed is just straight up dishonest
-
An addiction to either will be extreme effects on your life. I am a user of meth and know it is quite dangerous and am careful not to use to often, I regularly have 2-3 weeks where I have none.
But with the general feeling that weed is no worse than alcohol, not enough respect paid to the effects it can have and more smoke every day. Being hooked on weed is eventually not much fun for them or their families.
-
something tells me jewfro is a heavy meth user and takes anything bad said about meth (regardless of how true it is) as a personal attack on him....
telling people weed and meth are equally addictive (not that anyone would believe that) to make yourself feel better about using it isn't good :P
I really have nothing against meth users and have enjoyed a few times myself, but don't deny that meth is serious shit, comparing it to weed is just straight up dishonest
something tells me that you're run out of arguments, as you've resorted to adhominem attacks on my character.
man, i could be the skeevy bum from down your street, that smears his shit all over the walls of the bus shelter and tells you im the next coming of christ, but my arguments remain valid.
if you are content to wallow in your [shitty] ignorance, then do so: you're more than welcome. im offering arguments that i have found to be in conjuction with enough supporting evidence.
people telling me that "they know better" without doing an iota of research, proves to me that darwin was right in our evolution from simian species, as you clearly can't think father than you can chuck your shit.
goddd
-
something tells me jewfro is a heavy meth user and takes anything bad said about meth (regardless of how true it is) as a personal attack on him....
telling people weed and meth are equally addictive (not that anyone would believe that) to make yourself feel better about using it isn't good :P
I really have nothing against meth users and have enjoyed a few times myself, but don't deny that meth is serious shit, comparing it to weed is just straight up dishonest
something tells me that you're run out of arguments, as you've resorted to adhominem attacks on my character.
man, i could be the skeevy bum from down your street, that smears his shit all over the walls of the bus shelter and tells you im the next coming of christ, but my arguments remain valid.
if you are content to wallow in your [shitty] ignorance, then do so: you're more than welcome. im offering arguments that i have found to be in conjuction with enough supporting evidence.
people telling me that "they know better" without doing an iota of research, proves to me that darwin was right in our evolution from simian species, as you clearly can't think father than you can chuck your shit.
goddd
Didn't you tell me to go suck a beaver in all caps? You are clearly the next evolution of man kind. Enjoy the tweak bro. I think it just may be making you behave in aggressive and asshole-ish ways though (then again amphetamine does the same to me after a few day binge :P )
-
I've seen people here say that meth mouth, faces of meth, etc are just propaganda.
Is this shit for real or some kind of reefer madness redux?
If it's not real how are they faking the photos?
If they are real what medical process could explain these changes happening within 90 days?
2011 update of faces:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360586/From-drugs-mugs-shocking-photos-drug-addiction-takes-toll.html
Meth is bad for you. Theres no getting around that. Maybe not as bad as they say, but still, bad.
-
They are exaggerating everything to scare you away from drugs. Everything they say has a little bit of truth behind it. Most of what makes meth so dangerous is addicts simply not taking care of themselves. That said, stick with amphetamine.
Methamphetamine is a more powerful drug than anyone needs. And the last thing you want to do is burn your receptors with it. That's, PERMANENT brain damage which translates into PERMANENTLY feeling the opposite of high (without drugs, of course).
amphetamine is some powerful stuff too, just a little more manageable. As with all drugs, moderation is key. Do as much research as you can, and only trust info from educated people.
And government propagandists are NOT educated people, at least not in anything but mass mind control.
Real people who have been there are the "authorities" you are looking for.
I went thorough my mid to late teens with my life revolving around where and how I was going to find my joint. Everyone I hung with lived the same way. We would have stolen money to get weed. A dose of acid here and there, some shrooms and a bit of meth here and there, beer fairly often but weed was an absolute necessity for us.
A few years go by and I would no longer steal due to principles that had developed but weed was still important but alcohol was playing a bigger role in my escapism.
Hard to find acid had become something of an obsession, so much that I was so driven to get it and reclaim the wonders of those early innocent trips that I totally fucked up the mindset needed when I took it. Bad trips and a healthy respect bordering on fear of dosing stays with me to this day. I am tempted to pick up some DMT of the site, its never been available to me before and I hung with some MckKenna heads in the years I'm about to come to but the last acid I did trashed me. Must have been dirty but I said to myself "I'm too old for this shit".
Not many years go by and I am in the thick of meth. Weed is only a sideline drug and alcohol is more important but a beer would go warm while I tweaked, especially after the smoking crystal craze hit in the early 90's. Addiction? Well, when you are so tired you can't move from coming down you sure want to be up again but a few days of sleep and you could walk away from it if you really wanted to. I did eventually. Some really weird shit happened during that time, some real mindfucks by really fucked up people but I kept my soul and I never became the stereotypical, propaganda methhead. And I brushed my teeth occasionally too so I still have them.
I did on one occasion sit in a little camper fucking with a keyboard and multitrack recorder so long (3 days/nights or so) without eating or drinking so that when I finally had to piss I think I had a mild heart attack when losing what little hydration I had left. I forced my mind to calm my body and drank as much water as I could hold and let that be a lesson.
In all of my years of smoking pot neither the mindfuck crowd nor nearly killing myself through neglecting my body had occurred.
So yes, meth is worse than pot if you let it be and that is totally up to you and your self control, what kind of character you posses going in and how much of it you can hold onto while there.
Keep in mind there was a time I would have stolen for pot but by the time I was into meth I had changed enough to never consider agressing against the property of others to pay for my mistakes. Time is a factor everyone seems to forget in almost every realm of analysis. This is the essence of the Austrian School BTW but I digress again......
If you are a shitbag going into drugs, and remain one during the course of your habit then you will likely make it up on the next propaganda poster, be a thief (I don't consider doing drugs criminal but some of the things drug addicts do for them is. The real crime is prohibition that drives prices up, creates public stigma and keeps addicts from being employed and able to easily afford their habits....but I digress) but if you have character, and stay out of jail, you might even make it in too far and get back out.
Of course history repeats itself and now I am an opiate addict who ran out yesterday. I'm a sick puppy right now :( I'm an alcoholic too. I have had lots of good weed in my possession but I trade most of it for pills. I don't do weed much. The transition makes me self concious (until a nice high settles in) and the need to pee in a cup when I may have to is a detractant. It hangs in the fat cells too long. My wifes kids were NEVER to be exposed to my weed or me when OBVIOUSLY high either. All of that just made it more hassle than it was worth.
I do a little meth (for the first time in 15 years) here and there, when I can get away with it, since finding the road. In moderation. It's OK if you keep it in moderation.
The worst part of meth became dealing with the the bag holders who wanted to own you. The road doesn't work that way.
Long live the road...at least until prohibition is lifted and we can buy whatever we want over the counter.
-
Didn't you tell me to go suck a beaver in all caps? You are clearly the next evolution of man kind. Enjoy the tweak bro. I think it just may be making you behave in aggressive and asshole-ish ways though (then again amphetamine does the same to me after a few day binge :P )
i did, just in case through all your speed-racing, you might overlook it, as it's clearly just shot the rest of your logical, deductuve, etc skills to shit.
it would make a lot of sense as at least i can intelligibly come up with a forum name, as opposed to a random string of characters, that i go on to troll people with no actual facts or data to support my bullshit arguments.
so fuck you bro ;D
-
I cannot believe the comparison of meth to weed has gone on this long... I have never used meth, but I've had a long history with heroin and everything else. Are they both habit forming? Absolutely. Do you smoke a joint and then do whatever the fuck it takes to get another one as soon as possible until you've exhausted everything and everyone including yourself? Do you know anyone living under the freeway because they smoke too much weed? Disease? Violent crime? Psychosis? Meth and other hard drugs are serious public health issues, marijuana is not, that's really all that needs to be said.
-
I cannot believe the comparison of meth to weed has gone on this long... I have never used meth, but I've had a long history with heroin and everything else. Are they both habit forming? Absolutely. Do you smoke a joint and then do whatever the fuck it takes to get another one as soon as possible until you've exhausted everything and everyone including yourself? Do you know anyone living under the freeway because they smoke too much weed? Disease? Violent crime? Psychosis? Meth and other hard drugs are serious public health issues, marijuana is not, that's really all that needs to be said.
The question "Meth vs Pot" wasn't the OP. Are the scare tactics for real was.
Either question needs to be properly framed to get anything resembling an answer grounded in reality......like all loaded questions.
I did my best to answer the OP above with a story of various drug use over several decades.
In an attempt to show that "pot is better than meth" can be untrue consider this:
Yes, the pot crowd didn't blitzkrieg Europe. The potheads are not typically super type A aggressors. They are the laid back type.
In the spirit of the OP I remember the propaganda being put out showing a couple of potheads saying "Pot isn't bad...nothing ever happens" and then their mother calls and they scramble to clear the smoke from the room they (young adults) both still live in in their mother's house. Living off of her and doing nothing productive in implied.
I started meth when college buddies were using it to cram for homework. I was a pothead and very much lazy and tired all the time because I was stoned all the time. Meth magically fixed that.....at first.
Those buddies went on to graduate and get good paying jobs. They drifted away from drugs and into building a career and savings. I never graduated and dove deeper into meth.
If you ask is pot worse than meth its like asking "Is more better?" More what? Better than what? For whom? For what purpose? At what time and place and for what duration?
If you used heavy pot use to cram for tests you would likely not find it beneficial. But some individuals might. Everyone is different.
I know a limited use of meth helped some of my friends. A not so limited use hurt me at the same time and place.
Which one, pound for pound can cause more physical damage in an organism is one thing but the question which is better or worse is much deeper than that.
And insulting each other doesn't help one's argument either :(
-
Actually the scare tactics for all illegal drugs are greatly overstated. The government of most countries are actively involved in a war on drugs. Propagranda is a large part of any war, and the governments are out to prove that any drug user is the scourge of the world.
Because meth is a relatively new drug with a limited user base and not much is known about its long term effects, and the short term affects can be very visible it is a very easy target, here we have a lot of other drug users attacking it, even though they have never used.
As long as the war on drugs continues, drug users will stay underground, particular the people with a lot of use (professional people).
From my experience virtually any drug can be used safely. Conversely any drug can be abused, with drastic personal effects.
In the city I live in, if you believed the media, the cbd and entertainment areas are full of alcohol and drug fuelled thugs, and it is highly likely you will be bashed. But the truth is their are a few gangs who largely fight among themselves, and carry out a few robberies as initiations, the problem isn't drugs and alcohol. It is the people, they are just a few controlling people who some-how, through threats and peer pressure make these group form.
The government should concentrate on these people, rather than having a war on drugs, and busting people who just want a good time.
-
it all comes back to, "we all learn from our ignorance", so sure it's good that someone wants to know others' ideas on the topic, but, again, i feel being on here in the first place should predispose us to be at least A LITTLE more open-minded. clearly the government is wrong about at least one thing, so the possibility that they're wrong on all counts, is very real.
especially in the narrow vein of drug information, which the government has been ABSOLUTELY CLUTCHING for as long as they've been doing it :o
-
For me personally meth has never been a problem, and I have dabbled in it for about 4 years now. I do it about 15 to 20 times a year and go many months without it. I don't know if this is because I am a former heroin addict, but I get no cravings for it once it is gone and the comedown isn't very noticeable.
It is just something I occasionally like, and then don't feel the need to have for awhile. I hardly ever have spent money on it, and most of it has been purchased through trades.
-
A common misconception is that the drug does all of the damage to the person, with little regard to the lifestyle many of these addicts are forced (well a lot of it is optional) to live as a result of the war on drugs.
If you want to play with the amphetamine class stick with straight up speed. Meth is TOO powerful. It will keep you awake for 24 hours at a time, and that extra methyl group makes it about 10x more lipidphilic than amphetamine. This means that it crosses the blood brain barrier much more efficiently. Also, the extra methyl group makes MonAmineOxidase far less effective at breaking down the drug and removing it from the receptors it is binding to. The extra power this drug has compared to amphetamine puts you at a MUCH greater risk of neurotoxicity and doing PERMANANT damage to your emmotional health. Do what you want, but my advice is don't fuck with it.
Meth mouth is caused PURELY by the user not taking care of themselves. When one uses amphetamine or methamphetamine, their mouths tend to get a little dry. This helps the natural bacteria in your mouth flourish. If you are not taking care of yourself by brushing, flossing and using listerine, you are providing a perfect breeding ground for tooth decay. What you see in those pictures are some really sad cases where people just didn't give a fuck about themselves anymore.
All the scars and scabs are from tweakers picking at their skin/resulting scabs compulsively. Not everyone who uses these drugs does this type of thing. If you find that you have some tendency to do this, just fuckin stop it. Use a little of your cognitive ability.
Sleep is soooooooooooooo important for your health. If you are speeding all the time and not sleeping, you are not doing restorative work on your body. I like to take either dextroamphetamine or a combo of racemic amphetamine and xanax. I plan ahead though. When I come down, I have soma (awesome muscle relaxant) and have scheduled time for sleeping, eating, and recovering. This recovery time is extremely important.
The lifestyle a drug user lives, is often much worse for them than the drug itself. Education is power (in soo many ways).
Be smart, take care of yourself and your fellow man, and have fun!
Now this is a legit post. No bullshit hyperbole. Thank you.
-
In one moth will be my birthday and I am thinking of trying Meth for the first time because it's the drug that I wanted to try all along.
One year and a half ago I would have ordered some without a second thought,but that was before I had a one year break from all drugs. Now I am a little hesistant to do so because of fear of addiction.
My drug of choice until now was Mephedrone because I love the horniness factor.From I read Meth seems to be even stronger in that regard and so I fear that Meth may be my drug of choice after all.
I also loved Mephedrone because of the confidence it gave me at the begining but that effect seems to be lost.
I had some Mephedrone from DrAmsterdam 2 weeks ago but the magic seems to be gone,there is still the horniness though.
2 weeks before that I had first mdma and 4-fa afterwards which made a great night but I missed the horn.
Ok,so now I am wondering should I get some mdmda + a g of crstal meth, some mdma + a g of coke
or should I just get some mephedrone instead?
I haven't have that often coke until now(about 30 times) but I remember my first time on it as a great experience.(But that night I had a really big-line,apparently second biggest up till now and I had already drunken some vodka before.
The 2 times I had normal Speed on the other hand I didn't like,I found that normal speed didn't give me any confidence,nor too much horn. and it lacked warmth and made me nervous.
-
Anybody?
-
if you're going to get mdma, get coke. meth with mdma could be a bit dangerose. coke bumps through a roll are nice though :D
-
if you're going to get mdma, get coke. meth with mdma could be a bit dangerose. coke bumps through a roll are nice though :D
I plan on using the meth or coke on the mdma comedown because after the roll begins to taper off I will get tired.
Basically,what I fear is that a g of coke will not last last long enough. When I bought the "cut to shit coke" before then I did the 0,5 g in two lines.
My fear with meth is that I won't be able to sleep.Abou 2 weeks ago when I had the mephedrone I did the 1 g baggie in a period of 12 hours(oral,nasal and plugged) and was able to get to sleep one hour after the last line although I hadn't done it for year.
Will meth really keep me up for 8 hours after the last line?
Also,I still have Etizolam pills at home.
-
I certainly think the photos and horror stories are real. However, I too think the whole story is not being told.
As far as Meth Mouth, ya it is real. From what I read it is cause by three things. One, "I read" that Meth slows the blood flow to the gums, which if uses on a daily basis will end up killing your teeth and gums. Two, ya like he said, it causes dry mouth which causes the growth of bacteria in the mouth to get to really high levels. Three, ya like he said, Meth itself erodes the enamel on teeth. I don't think it helps too much, but when I smoke Meth I always brush my teath, gums, tongue, under my tongue, and the roof of my mouth. I am always careful not to brush hard though. Over brushing or brushing to hard can cause problems too. I also sip on water to help keep my mouth we, and slosh around some mouth wash every few hours. I also put the pipe far in my mouth to avoid the Meth from directly passing over my teeth and gums. In reality, I think these things probably help 'a little,' maybe good enough for my occasional usage, but I don't think these things would prevent Meth Mouth in a daily user.
I think a big reason the people look like poop wormed over is probably not a direct effect of Methamphetamine. I bet it is starvation that causes people to look like that. Take a look at pictures of people who are suffering from starvation... see they look almost the same. However, "From what I read" Meth dose get excreted from the sweat glands and irritates the skin, so the blotchy sores and stuff are caused by Meth usage directly.
Both Meth Mouth and looking like crap I would assume are only the result of daily use of Meth. I don't think a few days a month will cause them.
As for the "Addicted for Life" stuff. Well I simply disagree, because I don't consider metal addiction to be 'Addiction.' A lot of people do though, but I don't. Unless the person is addicted to a Benzo which requires an extremely slow decrease in dosage over the course of months in order to avoid potentially deadly side-effects, ... shoot I can't recall the exact time..., but it is something like after two weeks your body will be completely free of a physical addiction to almost any drug, Meth included (but Benzos like Valium have such dangerous withdrawal symptoms, they are another story). The people who say, "You will crave it for the rest of your life" are simply basing the statement on faulty evidence. I am sure some people do crave Meth for the rest of their lives. However, I would pose that that person probably would be saying that about any drug they happened to fall in love with. What I mean by that is some people just can not control themselves when it comes to drugs. It is not the drugs fault they can't stop craving it. It is the result of that person's biology and/or life experiences which lead them to using whatever drug and developing a whole set of conscious and unconscious beliefs and routines which reinforce the idea that they must use the drug. People who use drugs in an effort to self-medicate for something like depression snap right into this problem.
I would say, "Ya, if you do Methamphetamine everyday like it is weed, you will end up like the Faces of Meth without question. However, if you have self control, know your body, and are not trying to self medicate something like depression you can certainly enjoy Methamphetamine without many problems. The catch is, if your wrong and you do develop a whole lifestyle around Meth usage there is no turning back."
Personally, I smoke Methamphetamine from time to time. I like to have some on hand, because I find it vary useful when I get overloaded with school work. Personally, I have a vary strong respect for Methamphetamine and take grate care to not develop any sort of addiction. Every move I make with it is well though out ahead of time. The way I do it, which I think is a vary good method is this. The day before I do anything I write down a usage schedule declaring how much I will take, when I will take it, and when is the cut off point. Then I stick to that schedule no mater what. Like I said before, I normally only partake when I have a lot of work to do. This helps me stop when it is time, because I can reassure myself that I achieved my goals, so it is time to stop. Basically, I see Methamphetamine like as chainsaw. It will get the job done fantastically, but if you make one mistake there goes your leg.
Owe and yes, there is lost of creditable (unlike MDMA) evidence that Methamphetamine is vary hard on practically all the vital organs in the body. It is not a daily use drug by any stretch of the imagination. Only once in a while and consciously make it a point to not to develop any sort of patter of usage. Like if one read that method of usage I talked about and decided, "Okay, every single time I am overwhelmed with work I'll smoke Meth." That would be a vary big problem even if it was only once a month. You don't want to develop Any pattern of usage. Sometime I even just smoke Meth for fun. Most of the time I'm overwhelmed with work I'll just grind through it and not smoke Meth.
-
if you're going to get mdma, get coke. meth with mdma could be a bit dangerose. coke bumps through a roll are nice though :D
I plan on using the meth or coke on the mdma comedown because after the roll begins to taper off I will get tired.
Basically,what I fear is that a g of coke will not last last long enough. When I bought the "cut to shit coke" before then I did the 0,5 g in two lines.
My fear with meth is that I won't be able to sleep.Abou 2 weeks ago when I had the mephedrone I did the 1 g baggie in a period of 12 hours(oral,nasal and plugged) and was able to get to sleep one hour after the last line although I hadn't done it for year.
Will meth really keep me up for 8 hours after the last line?
Also,I still have Etizolam pills at home.
yeah, ok - i thought you wanted to do the coke/meth while ON mdma.... but yeah, the meth will keep you up... like until you've fully exhausted yourself to the point that you just plop on your bed and it's lights out, meth will keep you going. maybe not full speed, but you will not be able to sleep for houuuuuurs after your last line...
at least, this is what i've learned from personal xp.
-
You cannot have greatness without fear, nor love without despair. It is the second law of Newton's Thermodynamics in the human spirit:
"For every action, there will be an equal but opposite reaction"
I'm sorry but this bothered me.
That would be Newton's Third Law of Motion. Also Newton had nothing really to do with thermodynamics. The second law of Thermodynamics has to do with entropy. ;)
-
a close friend of mine is just sorting his life out after becoming addicted to meth. he was a normal smart guy, from a solid middle class family, he liked drugs and probably did too much or too often by some peple standards but his life never fell apart untill he found meth. after heavy use and dealing to support it for as little as a year his life was on the way to being completely fucked. kicked out of home, almost die being robbed at gunpint, more then once, had the shit beaten out of him, starting to experience psychosis (voices), almost completely lost contact with his entire old social group.
thankfully hes gotten clean, he needs to take benzos and anti psychotics everyday just to function and till experiences severe depression anxiety and reduced mental acuity ('cant think straight', forgets what hes saying etc)
Obviously this is not the path of the average person who tried meth in the dance scene or the like but it could turn out to be your drug of choice then if some bad curcumstanes come along in life you might find yourself with a really bad habit
-
a close friend of mine is just sorting his life out after becoming addicted to meth. he was a normal smart guy, from a solid middle class family, he liked drugs and probably did too much or too often by some peple standards but his life never fell apart untill he found meth. after heavy use and dealing to support it for as little as a year his life was on the way to being completely fucked. kicked out of home, almost die being robbed at gunpint, more then once, had the shit beaten out of him, starting to experience psychosis (voices), almost completely lost contact with his entire old social group.
thankfully hes gotten clean, he needs to take benzos and anti psychotics everyday just to function and till experiences severe depression anxiety and reduced mental acuity ('cant think straight', forgets what hes saying etc)
Obviously this is not the path of the average person who tried meth in the dance scene or the like but it could turn out to be your drug of choice then if some bad curcumstanes come along in life you might find yourself with a really bad habit
im sorry for your friend, bro
but at the same time - benzo's and anti-psychs reduce mental acuity, not to mention that after a serious amphetamine addiction, you'd probably have significantly ruined some parts of your brain....
like, when i take benzo's, i'll be chatty and all that, but i'll find myself getting lost in what i was talking about, not mentioning that if i take a whole bunch, i might black out and not remember SHIT lol
<3 to your friend, hope he gets his shit together :(
-
Everything in moderation (then again Ive never purposefully tried meth except for in dirty e-pills) :p
just my 2cents
If your goal of taking drugs is to enhance your life then try to keep them as a supplement to your life and not the focus...
Personally I try to live a healthy lifestyle with regards to exercise and clean diet in an attempt to make my body more efficient and reduce the negative effects of certain substances.
Not only will your body recover faster but you will also maximize the effectiveness of your chosen chemicals; essentially, a healthily functioning body can help potentiate the drug and
allow you to get the most bang for your buck!
Meth isnt my cup of tea but if you have the willpower to moderate its use then perhaps you can be an effective user...The gamble and the odds are in my opinion a higher risk then other substances
-
I've seen people here say that meth mouth, faces of meth, etc are just propaganda.
Is this shit for real or some kind of reefer madness redux?
If it's not real how are they faking the photos?
If they are real what medical process could explain these changes happening within 90 days?
2011 update of faces:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360586/From-drugs-mugs-shocking-photos-drug-addiction-takes-toll.html
*YES*, *YES*, *YES* Meth scares are for real. Stay the fuck away from it. Stick with Coke (or Adderall)---if you want to get a good Buzz on. There is *NOTHING* redeeming about Meth. Put it this way, the new method of making Meth---called "Shake and Bake"---you are *LITERALLY* making a hand help "BOMB" (like Dynamite BOMB) if you don't know what you're doing. Google for stories on Shake and Bake and Burns...
That shit is made with DRAINO, Zippo Lighter Fluid---ALL KINDS of fucked up shit...STAY THE FUCK AWAY from it.....Anything someone is mixing Piple Cleaning Solution or Lighter Fluid---is FUCKED
Yeah, I Know bastard drug dealers Cut Coke with a bunch of fucked up shit...but "most" (you can gamble)--just cut it with Baking Soda---Yeah, you hear the Urban Legends---about Rat Poison and all that....but those are just "Urban Legends"---Coke dealers don't want to kill their customers...they want you coming back.
However Meth is an entirely new ball game and will FUCK YOU UP (like permanently damage who you are)----PLEASE stay the fuck away from it and just use the shit that "God" gave us (ie. grows in the ground)---and/or a "Major Pharmaceutical Company" invented (ie. MDMA---invented my Merck Pharmaceuticals)
Please don't do Meth---it's called "Hill Billy Heroin" for a reason....all the fucks that can't afford Cocaine---mix that shit with whatever they can find in the house and snort it.....it's a fucked up BAD BAD BAD drug. I'm 100% pro legalization...but that's *ONE DRUG*...I'd say HELL NO to.
-
Methamphetamine the compound itself does little harm to you, aside from reducing dopamine levels in your brain when use is stopped. Everything else is done by the user to himself.
One of the most influential things regarding new users of meth is that they shouldn't be using it to begin with. For example, someone that is opiate naive most likely isn't going to go out and rail a stamp or two of high purity heroin, they would (or would be advised to) start small and slow, take a low dose of hydro or oxycondone to get the feel for it, know the effects, then when they're tolerant its time to increase the dose, eventually moving up the chain to more powerful opiates.
Same is true for meth, it isn't logical or safe really for a person naive to amphetamines to start out with moderate to large doses of a very powerful stimulant. This is why people end up awake for days at a time, not eating, tweaking out and going crazy, because the body can't handle it. Same sort of thing would happen if a new opiate user started with something too powerful, they would get sick, vomit, and very likely OD with a possibility of death. The difference here is amphetamines are harder to OD on, or well an amphetamine OD is less likely to kill you.
Case in point, don't run out and start a meth habit out of the blue, start with adderall or dexamphetamine in smaller doses, then if you build your habit that far, then move to meth.
I had an amp habit long before moving up to meth, and when I finally decided to go for it, I did get high as fucking hell, but when I came down I started yawning, ate a cheeseburger and went to SLEEP, like 12hrs after a good sniff with an pick-me-up half way through. No tweaking, no going nuts picking my skin off, no trouble going to sleep, and moderate appetite supression (more so than amp). The only real difference was that meth didn't loose its fun after mulitple dosing everyday, and it cut back on use b/c it lasts much longer.
***************************************
Moving on, the person posting before me seems to be a little bit confused and or lacking some of the facts. Not that I am condemning, its understandable with the way the "meth myth" is running rampant . Though I will point you in the right direction.
1. Hillbilly heroin is a slang term used in reference to the opiate painkiller oxycontin, it was coined as one of the biggest initial impacts regarding abuse of the drug was among lower income whites. The point of the slang was that the drug is similar to heroin in its effect and addictiveness.
2. Contrary to popular belief, "meth" is not just a random fucked up mixture of a bunch of caustic chemicals some mountain folk threw together in order to get high. Meth is methamphetamine, a psychoactive psychostimulant drug in the amphetamine family. The drug is made illegally in clandestine labs in order to supply the large demand for it in the USA. Essentially it is just an amphetamine molecule with the addition of a methyl group. The chemicals your mentioning are used to make the substance, they are not part of the substance. There are many 'recipes' to make meth involving many different chemicals. The reason store bought chems are used is due to the lack of availability of lab grade supplies. Unfortunately this substitution of store bought chemicals normally reduce the purity of the product and the safety in which its produced.
I'm ending with this-
You speak so highly of pharmaceutical drugs and their safety, you mentioned adderall for instance. So whats your opinion on desoxyn (methamphetamine HCL), a prescription medication approved by the FDA for the treatment of ADHD and obesity?
Look at it this way, marijuana is schedule 1 in the usa, meaning according to the gov't it is a harmful drug with no medical benefits, while methamphetamine is schedule 2, meaning it has legit medical benefits that outweigh the potential for abuse/addiction. You must find it interesting that "meth" has earned its rightful place in medicine far before marijuana is even considered...
-
(I didn't include your quote as i didn't want to take up TOO much page space) 8)
#1 Comment, Yes, you are correct, I tired to edit out "Hill Billy Heroin" and would not let me change and save for me, and you are correct
#3-Comment,again you are correct. I have no idea why Adderall (which is a Meth Salt--is "Legal") It's exactly like a "Coke" High when you're "Peaking" on the drug. Of course the label say take twice a day...just to avoid Hassle, I take both in the morning.
The entire "Grading System" of Drugs is IDIOTIC and stupid. Remember, Nixon started it and was out of "Fear" of a bunch of "Hippies" being a drain on Society..IDIOT Government. (and if was *FIRST* a controlled substance based on RACISM--Farmer used Mexican Labor---(oh how things change)--but Mexican labor--they noticed that during Lunch---they'd all smoke, then take a Nap---Farmer's were TERRIFIED of this, as they thought it would be a loss of productivity.
(I was given "Cocaine Pledgets" for a Nose job---asked the Doc is that *REAL* cocaine, he said YES. It's uses as a Topical Anesthetic.
Regarding #2--This is simply thins I've read on the Web and a "Documentary" (think it was on Discovery Channel..they showed one girl mixing all kinds of shit to make it. Someone not too long ago "blew up" a Shake and Bake Mixture in Wal-Mart (it's the Equivalent of a Pipe Bomb when Making it.
It is VERY dangerous to make "Shake and Bake Meth. Won't bombard you with links, but a few (what I consider Reputable).
NPR--http://www.npr.org/2012/02/07/146531937/shake-and-bake-meth-causes-uptick-in-burn-victims
About.com-http://alcoholism.about.com/od/meth/a/shake_and_bake.htm
And regarding #2---I sure as hell would rather a Doctor prescribe a prescription for me, than some High School drop out making it.
I deserved a call out--Tap of the Hat to you.
******************************************
Bu the way, I AM NOT a "conspiracy nut"---HOWEVER...I'm beginning to believe it's not 100%, Government/DEA wanting to fight the War on Drugs...but when I look up THE GOVERNMENTS OWN WEBSITE and it says Marijuana in Lab Rats REDUCES Tumors while leaving the "GOOD CELLS" alone.
I happen to be highly passionate about this because my mom died of cancer when I was 13-years old.
Here's a few quotes from CANCER.GOV
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/patient/Page2#Section_7
I *HONESTLY* think that "Big Pharma" does not want Clinical Trials on Humans because the treatment Protocol is to pump POISON into your Body--killing ALL SELLS--as Chemotherapy does...and I bet they charge $5000-$10,000 a visit.
Some Cannabis *FAST* (Remember FROM THE GOVERNMENT).
******************************
Cannabis has been used for medicinal purposes for thousands of years.
Chemical components of Cannabis, called cannabinoids, activate specific receptors found throughout the body to produce pharmacologic effects, particularly in the central nervous system and the immune system.
Other possible effects of cannabinoids include:
Anti-inflammatory activity.
Blocking cell growth.
Preventing the growth of blood vessels that supply tumors.
Antiviral activity.
Marijuana Protect against the following (in Lab rats)
Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.
A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.
A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. T
he same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects.
Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.
READ THIS CLOSELY
Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.
Chemotherapy Poisons THE ENTIRE BODY---it is ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL:---it's illegal....and I'm beginning to believe it's because of "Big Pharma" that pumps so much money into Congress..that it remains illegal!!!
SICK
-
I think they could definitely be real but you gotta understand these must be the worst case scenerios. I'm sure these people smoke or shoot more than regularly, never use clean supplies and probably live on the streets or near to them.
It's real like how there are people with the shakes and drink just to get out of bed. It happens but then again millions of people enjoy alcohol with out shakes or liver failure.
-
I think they could definitely be real but you gotta understand these must be the worst case scenerios. I'm sure these people smoke or shoot more than regularly, never use clean supplies and probably live on the streets or near to them.
It's real like how there are people with the shakes and drink just to get out of bed. It happens but then again millions of people enjoy alcohol with out shakes or liver failure.
... whicccchhh is whyyyyyy they're called "scare tactics"
just like how propaganda is called such, for a reason...
-
MODERATION.......MODERATION......MODERATION....
Give your body • mind • soul • being
a chance to recover from such
an aggressive PUNCH.....
as with everything.....
-
Can't believe this thread is still going!
-
Can't believe this thread is still going!
Its still going because the thread itself has smoked meth. Like the energizer bunny, it keeps going and going and going :::takes a hit off the pipe::: and going and going and going and....... lol.
-
I want some of whatever this thread is on.
-
And regarding #2---I sure as hell would rather a Doctor prescribe a prescription for me, than some High School drop out making it.
SMH. It's things like this that keep drug stereotypes going.
-
And regarding #2---I sure as hell would rather a Doctor prescribe a prescription for me, than some High School drop out making it.
SMH. It's things like this that keep drug stereotypes going.
No, it's things like this that keep people from thinking that you get get high on orange peels or that jenkem is a real thing.
Who would you rather hire to remove a tumor: doctor or high-school dropout meth cook? Who would you rather design your house: engineer or high-school dropout meth cook who is really good at playing with LEGOs?
It's misinformation, stupidity and laziness that keep stereotypes going, not common sense.
-
And regarding #2---I sure as hell would rather a Doctor prescribe a prescription for me, than some High School drop out making it.
SMH. It's things like this that keep drug stereotypes going.
No, it's things like this that keep people from thinking that you get get high on orange peels or that jenkem is a real thing.
but.. jenkem IS a real thing :#
-
Wow, you guys are still talking about this :D
I actually remember when this thread started, oh, it was in the old days, when I was a young pup. The sun was brighter, the bees buzzing was buzzier and the colors were different back then. Aye. That's right, they were.
-
ive had experience with quite a few stimulants and want to try some meth... i want to either smoke it or snort it... what do you all recommend??? :)
-
Wow, you guys are still talking about this :D
I actually remember when this thread started, oh, it was in the old days, when I was a young pup. The sun was brighter, the bees buzzing was buzzier and the colors were different back then. Aye. That's right, they were.
when we were all but little nooblets? :3
ive had experience with quite a few stimulants and want to try some meth... i want to either smoke it or snort it... what do you all recommend??? :)
i wouldnt smoke anything other than the narrow range between cigarettes, weed and dmt...
snorting always works for me. bit of an irritation at first. sometimes on the booster bumps....
unless you blast huge rails or its not chopped up to its finest...
you can even eat this shit and it'll work magnificently lol
-
thanks for the advice, think i will be snorting some instead of smoking 8) would rather do that anyway!
-
thanks for the advice, think i will be snorting some instead of smoking 8) would rather do that anyway!
man smoking crazy chemicals freaks me the fuck out.
and intrusive shit like that seems like asking for trouble... injecting shit thats not USP grade or smoking shit that shouldn't be inhaled... yeah.
-
so you think snorting meth is the safest bet?? ive snorted a bunch of other stuff, smoked some (weed basically), but want to do it right. i appreciate the feedback :)
-
yeah, i'd say so. if you get good stuff, it might be gentle on the nose. or do progressive hairlines, since as you get buzzed from meth you won't feel as much pain...
kinda like with k, to avoid the fucking nasal disaster you do hairlines sequentially to get to where you want :D
-
just like any drug, you just gotta know your limits
-
I have had one experience with meth, took some psuedo to a shake and bake guy. I left with half a g. It was probably shit quality, but it got me ripped. I was up for 2 days, shitty part is I spent the last day in jail.
Only time I have ever even seen meth and I got popped for it... But if I hadn't been all fucked up on meth and doing stupid shit, the cops would have never been called. Oh well.
If I ever get the money, I may order some shards from here, stuff is probably night and day from what I had.
I usually direct my bitcoins toward opiates, and some hash.
The good news is, after only one use I can report that I have no mouth or skin problems.