Silk Road forums
Support => Feature requests => Topic started by: Kara on December 28, 2011, 11:37 am
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Even if it's asked via PM. I think making this a strict rule would reduce vendor scams a lot. I vended for one week and got 50 transactions and 100 score no problem, never offered free samples. It doesn't seem unreasonable to invest one month before I could ask for buyers to finalize early. The threat of losing the $150 for even mentioning finalizing early would be a useful deterrent. If you don't have the capital to float one week while waiting for some escrow to clear you probably have no business vending here anyway as it shows me you're strapped for cash and are much more likely to run off.
Another big thing is feedback less than $40 USD should not count. The 0.00 BTC listings vendors put up to boost feedback is silly. It works both ways since scam buyers can just buy digital junk for 99cents and have good buyer stats too. Needs to be fixed.
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It's funny that someone dealing in illegal substances would ask the site admins to act as a nanny state.
This is a market place. People who are outright scamming others should be dealt with by authority, but otherwise bat market practices ought to be punished by the market. If a vendor is doing what you described, people shouldn't buy from that vendor until s/he changes those practices. Clean and simple, the way it should be done. Creating new rules and making every little warning sign into a bannable offense is the best way to create a festering bureaucracy that will greatly impair the usefulness of SR, for both buyers and vendors alike.
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The rules state you are not allowed to go out of escrow, the rule already exists I'm just asking for enforcement.
from sellers guide:
"NOTICE: Please do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. "
People shouldn't buy from them, yah nice dream. There are new users ever day. There are new scammers every single day. Literally. It's unreasonable to expect every single one of them will read the forums for 2+ hours before making purchases. Not to mention they think they're buying from a trusted vendor that's been here for months with positive reviews but really it's the guy rating himself over and over. The feedback system is 100% useless and broken because you can inflate your score with 0.00 BTC transactions, both buyers and sellers. It's a complete joke.
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By the way, I'd like to see a vendor that doesn't meet the requirements I posted that you would trust to go OOE with. Overall they are pretty lax and wouldn't even affect real vendors. It bumps the invest to start scamming to around $650 which is nothing to someone that is legit, but would stop the fly by night shit that's happening daily here and getting 2-30 people each and every time.
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The rules state you are not allowed to go out of escrow, the rule already exists I'm just asking for enforcement.
from sellers guide:
"NOTICE: Please do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. "
Finalized early and transaction out of escrow is not the same thing. There is a difference between out of escrow which mean payed directly without paying SR fee.
Early finalize is an choice and its not against sr guide. (its a guide and not rules though)
Its up to buyer to do a homework, check feedback and hoover mouse over item to see which item is purchased for that particular feedback.
Both buyer and a vendor has a right to choose to whom want to do biz with, without making to many explanations to anybody, not be involved in anything what is no their concern, its still illegal market.
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and how do you explain this quote from Global Moderator Nomad Bloodbath?
"DO not finalize early for any vendor, if they ask yiu to they have broken a Silk Road Marketplace guideline."
source: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=7288.msg66165#msg66165
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and how do you explain this quote from Global Moderator Nomad Bloodbath?
"DO not finalize early for any vendor, if they ask yiu to they have broken a Silk Road Marketplace guideline."
source: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=7288.msg66165#msg66165
With all respect, moderator here is not SR admin and he has not access to SR market.
Guideline are suggestions and not strict rules and policy.
Forum is forum and SR is SR. Until strict terms on SR are written to enforce all other can be meant only as suggestions.
Again, early finalize is NOT out of escrow transaction and nobody is force you to do it. Its a buyer choice and not obligation.
From buyer guide;
NEVER go around the escrow and pay a vendor directly. We will be totally unable to protect you in this event and the vendor will have much less motivation to serve you well. People HAVE been scammed this way. If a seller requests that you pay them directly, please let us know so we can address the situation
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Hence me posting in feature request that it become a strict rule. Notice it's the request forum and not the demand forum. I'm done arguing semantics and splitting hairs what the rules "really mean" If you have a counter point to my suggestion I'd love to hear it.
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Guide is guide, rules mean rules, its simple.
But regardless what the name, nowhere can be found that early finalize is outside escrow transaction and thus against guidelines.
You can paste exact quote from SR marketplace if you find it.
MY conclusion; I dont agree with this this request of banning members with such complicate rules.
I agree with Horizons, SR can give guideline and suggestions, there are no consequence in breaching guidielines. Both buyers and sellers need to use common sense, read feedback and all info and decide accordingly. Seller need to protect from fraud buyers too, some seller outside US have not dcn and other post services and can lose more then can afford.
Remember, this is global site with a lot of international users and all of them have a right to deal or to refuse a buyer if they want to.
From buyer guide;
NEVER go around the escrow and pay a vendor directly. We will be totally unable to protect you in this event and the vendor will have much less motivation to serve you well. People HAVE been scammed this way. If a seller requests that you pay them directly, please let us know so we can address the situation
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Or people could just do their research and not be retarded. What SR has done is bring regular street druggies onto the online scene. Scamming has always been a part of the online scene, always will be. Nothing you guys can do is going to stop it. The scammers will always find a way. The only way to prevent it is to educate the noobs and we do our best but how is SR responsible for someone who blatently ignores the warnings posted all over the site. What you are asking will effectively deter new vendors. Not to mention you sound like the damn government. "Ban them for operating illegally (AKA THROW THEM IN PRISON)" Agorism is not about tyrannical ruling it is about freedom and SR is an agorist so I highly doubt he will approve of your idea. END RANT.
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The whole "ban them from doing something illegal in the first place" is a strawman. It's also suggesting that drug dealers are some sort of second class citizen that dont deserve the same protections as a normal businessman. Which is another issue entirely I suppose. It's more like ban them for trying to circumvent the protection for buyers that's already in place and is an integral part of SR, which is currently broken. It's being abused daily since it's so easy to do, taking money away from vendors (which hurts the future of SR itself) and turning off new buyers. I suggest some simple restrictions that any vendor can comply with. A vendor needs to put extra work in at first to earn trust, before asking others to trust them. This is as simple as a DCN or registered mail at the buyers expense, and floating about 1 weeks worth of revenue. By the time you're doing large volume and your escrow funds are at significant risk (BTC swing, ect) you have met the requirements to ask for OOE transactions. Just like any business, even f2f drug sales. You work to build a good name. If you try to scam like that IRL drug trade you'll get beat, robbed, or worse. Especially since it's highly likely it's the same small amount of people repeating the scams over and over.
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Mseller when you say Early Finalize is not out of escrow that's not totally true. Once you finalize you are RELEASING the escrow. If you finalize early and then get scammed it is the SAME as out of escrow basically. The BTC is gone and SR can offer no resolution. Don't Finalize early unless you ARE SURE....and even then its not the best idea. IMO
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Early finalize is finalizing escrow transactions. Period. Its not the same. Directly payment to vendor outside SR escrow system and without sr fee and feedback is Out of Escrow transaction.
IMO that is what is inside buyer guidelines.
No vendor can force a buyer to release funds. Going completly outside escrow is against sr guidelines when early finalize is another story.
I am not discussing is "early finalize" is bad or good, that is up to buyer, only that dont mix out of escrow or direct payment with early finalize.
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The whole "ban them from doing something illegal in the first place" is a strawman. It's also suggesting that drug dealers are some sort of second class citizen that dont deserve the same protections as a normal businessman. Which is another issue entirely I suppose. It's more like ban them for trying to circumvent the protection for buyers that's already in place and is an integral part of SR, which is currently broken. It's being abused daily since it's so easy to do, taking money away from vendors (which hurts the future of SR itself) and turning off new buyers. I suggest some simple restrictions that any vendor can comply with. A vendor needs to put extra work in at first to earn trust, before asking others to trust them. This is as simple as a DCN or registered mail at the buyers expense, and floating about 1 weeks worth of revenue. By the time you're doing large volume and your escrow funds are at significant risk (BTC swing, ect) you have met the requirements to ask for OOE transactions. Just like any business, even f2f drug sales. You work to build a good name. If you try to scam like that IRL drug trade you'll get beat, robbed, or worse. Especially since it's highly likely it's the same small amount of people repeating the scams over and over.
I know many many legit vendors who do not pass out DCNs unless there is an issue because there is ways that LE can do analysis upon them. Say LE places a bunch of orders under different nyms and gets the DCNs for each of these. They can then narrow the time and location down and watch surveillance on these areas at those locations and times. They can establish patterns. Vendor A goes to drop box 1 on Tuesday, box 2 on Wednesday etc... I know you guys don't think about this stuff but trust me we have people in this scene who do think of these things and yeah, its probably overkill for the moment, but eventually LE will get smart and use the traffic camera analysis and other methods to bust people, as they can pretty much automate the entire process with programs or computers. I don't think that even if you threaten to ban them it is gonna stop people from scamming. They will just stay legit for the first month then once they have gained trust scam (like many recent scams have been). Like I said there is no solution. SR is not some God who can protect the innocent users of his website. He can educate them and that obviously he has tried and tried, but if people are gonna be fucking idiots and ignore the warnings on the site then its not his fault.
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I think we all get what you're complaining about, Kara. But more regulation almost certainly isn't the best solution. It's in everyone's best interest to keep this market as free and accessible as possible (anonymity and privacy concerns notwithstanding) so as to facilitate the entry of new buyers and sellers as well as the actual negotiations, which are after all the main point of SR. Anything that's done to put an obstacle in the path of the scammers will put that same obstacle in the path of legitimate users as well. In the end, it'll lower the general population but won't significantly alter the proportion of scammers to honest people. Furthermore, it might create the illusion of safety for newcomers, thus making the already-established scammer's job even easier. As it stands now, anyone coming to a black market website to buy drugs, weapons and money laundering service knows (or at the very least should know) that she is dealing with criminals, and should assume that not everyone is honest. By creating the illusion that SR is a walled garden, too much regulation might actually end up exposing more new users to scammers by making them lower their defenses.
Well, that's my $0.02, anyways. I might be completely wrong, but this is my story and I'm sticking to it.
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I think we all get what you're complaining about, Kara. But more regulation almost certainly isn't the best solution. It's in everyone's best interest to keep this market as free and accessible as possible (anonymity and privacy concerns notwithstanding) so as to facilitate the entry of new buyers and sellers as well as the actual negotiations, which are after all the main point of SR. Anything that's done to put an obstacle in the path of the scammers will put that same obstacle in the path of legitimate users as well. In the end, it'll lower the general population but won't significantly alter the proportion of scammers to honest people. Furthermore, it might create the illusion of safety for newcomers, thus making the already-established scammer's job even easier. As it stands now, anyone coming to a black market website to buy drugs, weapons and money laundering service knows (or at the very least should know) that she is dealing with criminals, and should assume that not everyone is honest. By creating the illusion that SR is a walled garden, too much regulation might actually end up exposing more new users to scammers by making them lower their defenses.
Well, that's my $0.02, anyways. I might be completely wrong, but this is my story and I'm sticking to it.
First thing I thought of was DRM. Makes it difficult for the regular user, but pirates have no problem still.
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Even if it's asked via PM. I think making this a strict rule would reduce vendor scams a lot. I vended for one week and got 50 transactions and 100 score no problem, never offered free samples. It doesn't seem unreasonable to invest one month before I could ask for buyers to finalize early. The threat of losing the $150 for even mentioning finalizing early would be a useful deterrent. If you don't have the capital to float one week while waiting for some escrow to clear you probably have no business vending here anyway as it shows me you're strapped for cash and are much more likely to run off.
Another big thing is feedback less than $40 USD should not count. The 0.00 BTC listings vendors put up to boost feedback is silly. It works both ways since scam buyers can just buy digital junk for 99cents and have good buyer stats too. Needs to be fixed.
This is a wise approach and I agree we definitely need something like this, because at present SR is wide open to scammers and confidence tricksters.
I agree with Kara, if you're coming onto SR as a vendor and have enough money to do that in first place, then surely you have enough working capital to buy stock. We don't want dodgy vendors who can just come along to make a bit of cash, up sticks and clear off with peoples cash when the orders pile up. We want serious long-term vendors interested in building a business. Surely quality over quantity is better.
Out-of-escrow should be *earned* and granted to only well established vendors who have earned the respect and trust of the marketplace.
I think this is fundamental to deterring scam merchants and building a safer and trusted marketplace.
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I know many many legit vendors who do not pass out DCNs unless there is an issue because there is ways that LE can do analysis upon them.
Right... I use DCN and won't give them to people unless they claim the product is really late or didn't arrive. You don't have to give them out jsut because you used the service (until there's a problem at least) It seems like you understand that so I don't really get he point you were getting at with the rest of your post? DCN is in no way more risky than without it for the vendor.
First thing I thought of was DRM. Makes it difficult for the regular user, but pirates have no problem still.
Except DRM is to prevent reselling of used games (like gamestop does) more so than it is to prevent pirates. The developers aren't retarded and they understand how easy it is to circumvent. Also my suggestion has a very clear hurdle that must be overcome, $650 USD, up from the current $150 USD. You think raising the bar to start scamming $500 USD would have no effect? Of course there will always be scammers but this cuts into the profit margin making the potential for loss higher and the potential for gains lower. This changes absolutely nothing for legit vendors, just that they have to earn a rep before asking for OOE, which the legit vendors do on their own right to begin with for the most part.. Almost all the legit vendors started out in escrow and almost all the scammers ask for finalizing early. Much rather get opinions from people with experience vending here and know how it works and what are reasonable expectations or requirements rather than speculation.
Check rumor mill, 3 more scammers since Christmas, people claiming over 100 fraudulent orders. It won't stop until something is changed.
The main argument seems to be my suggestion makes it "too hard" for new vendors (which btw, as a new vendor myself, my suggestions would not have affected me at all) but everyone fails to consider the way things are now also repels new vendors (and buyers) It's the entire reason I (a vendor) posted this, and don't have any listings up right now.
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Much rather get opinions from people with experience vending here and know how it works and what are reasonable expectations or requirements rather than speculation.
This just shows how you long you have been here. I was one of the first vendors on this site.
I have been in this scene for years before SR was even a concept. Scamming has been rampant the entire time. Its not gonna change. I understand you are trying to stop it, but your idea simply won't work. They will pull the 'legit for a month then run off with everyones cash' scams still. How do you prevent that? IMO these scams are even worst because they will gain everyones trust so users end up sending them hundreds or thousands of dollars at a time and they will make much more off it in the end. I'm assuming that most customers that looking for bulk have at least learned to place test orders by now. I'm probably wrong with the amount of noobs around here.
I am not defending scammers in anyway. They are scumbag pieces of shit. I am simply defending freedom. Your idea is akin to our government trying to protect us by making drugs illegal. We should not expect our government or SR to act as an 'overlord' and protect us from all the evil in the world. You need to learn to protect yourself, or you are destined for failure.
Anyway this is my last post in this thread I feel it is getting repetitive.
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Yah I knew when typing that I shouldn't be a dick, especially on this account... I haven't smoked yet today so I'm a lil edgy, sorry.
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I agree with envious.
Like him I am here long time and earned my reputation. I dont request early finalize and offer refund if failed delivery. I have not DCN option and I am from european country. All my orders are international.
Many vendor require early finalize for international orders, what is not strange and difficult to understand why. And most of them are honest who deliver product anyway. Buyers change feedback accordingly.
Full scammers are rare now. Main problems are selective scam and we can not avoid it or do much about. They will always be.
There are 212 vendor on SR now and to seller is not so easy to change account. What do you think how many selective scammers buyers are out there what nobody mention?
You can not dictate anybody how to sell drugs online. If buyer dont like it then nobody is forcing him to do it. SR offer many items from all around world. You can not enforce such rules in this kind of market.
SR can give guides to follow and all other is up to us - users whatever we are sellers or buyers.
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It is not at all rare. Check rumor mill. One guy is out 800 Euro from a very recent scam. That vendor took over 80 orders before he disappeared, now it's suspect he already has a new account and is doing the same thing. There's 2 more that wern't as successful but we're still talking 20-50 orders each. This is tens of thousands of dollars going to scammers instead of you, a legit vendor. So the arguments that scammers can still scam after building a reputation while 100% true, it takes them months to do a few times compared to days.... how it is now. How could any one say with a straight face it wouldn't slow the scams down? And if you don't require OOE then my suggestion would have zero effect on you, if your buyer wants to finalize early cuz he knows you that's fine, I'm just against new sellers requiring it.
That last part is just silliness. You can't dictate how to sell drugs ect is not at all a valid argument. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT WE'RE SELLING. Why is that so hard to comprehend. We already have rules that do dictate exactly how we sell drugs online anyway. This is SR business, if you want no rules start your own .onion and sell shit.
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We already have rules that do dictate exactly how we sell drugs online anyway. This is SR business, if you want no rules start your own .onion and sell shit.
That is not true, we have a GUIDELINES!
Any vendor no matter how much rep hi has can go south! If you as a buyer do not want to finalize then do not. You can sell your shit like you want, I will do it as I like it, with my terms.
If I have term of shared risk I will have it, nobody is forcing buyer to accept it.
You confuse guide and rules. Early finalize is buyers choice and its not against any guidelines!
That guy who lost 800 eur has my sympaty ( I would not send anybody that amount)but any vendor no matter of his reputation can go bad with such money at any time.
You can not enforce of banning seller if he request of early finalize and as I have said, many seller request it for international orders, even shared risk is too much to them. And what they doing wrong anyhow? Here can anybody claim anything, it does not mean its true. Who can confirm anything said in this forum.
Most recent scam are btc - mp exchangers. OOE is direct payment and early finalize is finished escrow transaction!!! Stop calling early finalize out of escrow. With direct payment SR does not get his share and that is against SR guide.
I have suggestion presented concerning early finalize in another thread, what does not carry any rep points and its separate selection in feedback system. So buyer do not judge according to "early finalize" feedback and rating what reflect on vendor.
And do not tell me what will affect me or not, its my opinion and if you dont like it its your problem. Every here and then there is somebody who have "solutions" like your what is useless. Stay and learn yourself if you dont belive me. Anyhow, I am done with this thread also.
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The rule vs guideline thing only proves English is not your first language. I only know one language, so I'm not trying to judge, but you're misinformed of the meanings of words. Vendors do get banned or accounts frozen on Silk Road, for that to happen they have to cross some line whether that line is called a rule or guideline makes no difference. It has the exact same meaning.
Every single scam I'm talking about is for Drugs. Not BTC. Cannabis, MDMA, Ketamine, LSD are the main ones. On top of the 800 euro guy another user claims $350. So that's ~1.5k USD from 2 transactions. Btw that vendor has over 80 transactions. How many thousands did he make I wonder? How much is he going to make with the new account he has going with the same scam right now? The exact type of scam that this suggestion is designed to prevent. Will new scams pop up? Of course. Will they be any where as easy or fast as this method? I hope not.
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And how much vendors have lost due fraud buyers or selective scams buyers? Who can confirm anything here? Who can prevent vendor to fake his own feedback? There are so many methods of scamming and your idea will not solve anything and I doubt that will ever be included in SR guidelines.
You can not enforce the rule of banning sellers if they request to finalize early.
Like I said, there are many sellers who have not DCN option like you in US and they can not afford to risk to lose a lot on international orders and wait to complete those terms behind your idea.
If somebody mention here fraud buyer, he instantly change his account and keep with (selective) scamming.
btw have you heard of kaezy, confirmed scammer. How its possible that he sell again with the same seller account? That is so simple to solve, now imagine how would be to enforce your idea?
I have another example, I had an buyer with high purchase rating who gave me 1/5 just because his order did not arrive and I have dropped from 100% to 89%
And many good long term seller requre early finalize for international orders. According to your idea they should be banned?
I did solve this issue with that buyer but you get my point.
Early finalize is not a problem, problem is that buyer do it without doing his homework, look for what feedback are for, forum and other published info.
Yeah, there been frozen and banned account but mostly if they have selling completly with direct payment and been confirmed scammers from many members.
You just can not accept any facts, get frustrated and taking this personal and playing with words, dictate what term really mean and whatever. english when in fact you know that english is not my native language. Older members here already stated that they dont like your idea and why and I am with them.
On all site in the world there are published "terms and regulations", and to you guidelines mean rules and Out of Escrow is early finalized, well, not in my book.
I am shocked that someone like you who speak English perfectly interpretation so badly.
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All of your questions are already covered in this post. I proposed a way to prevent vendors giving fake feedback. I gave a way to protect vendors against fraudulent buyers. There are many ways of scamming and my idea will make it more difficult (not impossible) to use the most profitable and prevalent scam on Silk Road. I'd say that's a worthy suggestion that solves a very specific problem. one you're not aware of maybe, since you mentioned BTC scams, doesn't mean it's not huge. Try reading the scam thread in Rumor Mill.
Basically all you've tried to do here is argue semantics, blatantly ignore already discussed topics, and throw around thinly veiled insults. You could perhaps offer a suggestion or ignore the thread now that you've already said your point in your first post. By now I've certainly come to an understanding that you, a vendor that doesn't meet the requirements I posted and asks for OOE (the common slang for finalizing early on these forums) transactions, doesn't like my idea. I'm truly shocked. But it's not leading to very productive conversations.
The buyers are doing their homework too. The most recent guy was seller for 6 months, lots of positive ratings. There was forum posts saying people received product... Assuming everyone that got scammed is stupid is not right.
Even if my idea sucks or whatever, the underlying point is that right now there is a specific scam that's getting repeated daily on Silk Road. There are ways to prevent this from happening with little to no extra burden placed on legitimate buyers or sellers. It's taking tens of thousands of dollars away from vendors and souring buyers experience. It should be fixed to make this a better place for us all.
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All of your questions are already covered in this post. I proposed a way to prevent vendors giving fake feedback. I gave a way to protect vendors against fraudulent buyers.
Really, I missed that one. Can you point where is your solution?
I guess you want to talk in slang and stating opinions as a fact. What does this contribute? Nothing but your level of conversation. You handle with big words and going on personal instead defend and explain (or modify) idea what you proposing.
My vocabular does not allow me to use words and interpret it so good (or bad) like your but I resent your accusations of that I have insulted you and that you have addressed my questions and explanations and opinions. I have also noticed that you want to have last to say so at this point I really dont care what you have to say.
You were disrespectful towards me and have bad attitude. And like all yours post that is my opinion.
My sugestions you can find in my post history if you want.
Even if my idea sucks or whatever, the underlying point is that right now there is a specific scam that's getting repeated daily on Silk Road. There are ways to prevent this from happening with little to no extra burden placed on legitimate buyers or sellers.
It's taking tens of thousands of dollars away from vendors and souring buyers experience. It should be fixed to make this a better place for us all.
What scamming practice and which vendor. I dont know how "early finalize" is taking thousands of dollars from vendors ???
Vendor can request for some items early finalize. I would like you to hear how to prevent buyer fraud who claim no delivery?
Anyhow, if you have another idea, please post it, this one is bad.
p.s.
Slang does not have any place in any serious discussion (that is often cause of misinterpretation(edited)) what seem to be hard you to have when somebody is not agree with you.
Like somebody who like to learn here is quote from wiki;
A guideline is a statement by which to determine a course of action. A guideline aims to streamline particular processes according to a set routine or sound practice. By definition, following a guideline is never mandatory. Guidelines are not binding and are not enforced.
Guidelines may be issued by and used by any organization (governmental or private) to make the actions of its employees or divisions more predictable, and presumably of higher quality.
End just to be clear, I only want to make it clear what OOE and early finalize means (according to my honest opinion) and why you can not enforce such rules as your idea when "early finalize" is only way of selling on SR for some sellers from other countries then USA.
I have my solution for early finalize what is posted in feature request and everybody can read it.
Its up to vendor which buyer he will serve and on terms acepptable on both of them.
In SR Scam list there is around 25 (selective) scammers from August! That 5 per month. What do you think what is an ratio in vendor:buyer? Maybe 1:15
If that 5 sellers have 75 rippoff transactions imagine how much are fraud buyers what is useless to report on the forum? I bet a lot more - 15 times more.
Its just that they are not visible and evident as vendors on the forum.
As conclusion; SR gather sellers and buyers and can not watch on every singe one and count transactions, ooe or early finalize. He wants transaction fee and doing best for whole community. Scammers would allways exsist and even maybe there is no reporting or complaining on the forum it does not mean that scammers are not there. They are not visible.
Majority of users are honest and legit - and 1-4% ripp offs (from both seller and buyers) will always be present, this way or another.
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p.s.
Slang does not have any place in any serious discussion (that is often cause of misinformation) what seem to be hard you to have when somebody is not agree with you.
So....is that a rule or a guideline? I would think the most often cause of misinformation is the intention of giving misinformation, not slang. Almost every language is dominated by slang. I was just curious ;)
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You are right, ;) I used wrong term, I wanted to say; misinterpretation.
I will edit and change the word in my earlier post.
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Lol. This guy is a wierdo. The kind of person that calls the police when he/she gets ripped off while buying drugs lol. Honestly, I am kinda new but I never got ripped off because I PMed the mods and asked for their advice and then I followed it. If you do that you should be just fine. I sent a small amount of coin to one mod then I asked for a few minutes of my time and he was glad to help. I suggest all newbs do the same.
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Its up to the buyer to choose to early finalize. There are many cases when the seller has a valid reason to ask for early finalization. If a seller requests an early finalization then the buyer should evaluate the situation and act accordingly. SR cannot hold everyone's hand sometimes its up to the buyer to use common sense.
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the best thing that buyers can do to protect themselves is start out buying very small amounts from vendors. don't put all your eggs in one basket. don't try to buy $1000 worth of drugs from a seller you've never done business with before. be smart, have patience, do a little reading and you will find the good vendors and confidently make your own decisions for higher dollar transactions based on your experience spending low dollar amounts..