Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Marenghi on November 21, 2011, 04:20 pm
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I recently (1-2 months ago) had a bad experience with JWH-018. I overdosed and ended up having very painful palpitations for the rest of the duration. I probably had high blood pressure as well, but the uncomfortableness came mostly from the heart/chest pains that would come in waves (10-15 sec interval between 3-4 very painful beats increasing in strength/speed). After this experience I've been unable to smoke weed without getting uncomfortable chest/heart pains. So I've stopped smoking weed. :'(
I'm thinking of trying mescaline soon, but I'm not sure how safe that is considering my current heart condition. However, I know cannabis increases blood pressure/heart rate more than most other drugs. I've taken a high dose of 2C-B without having any issues since then. The heart rate was elevated, but never uncomfortable.
The last thing I want is to end up with 12 hours of chest pain. So I'm asking here, how is mescaline in regards to heart rate? Should I be safe considering my successful 2C-B trip? I've taken LSD (which I understand is somewhat similar in intensity/head space?) several times before, but not since the JWH overdose.
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You should probably get checked out by a doctor - mostly for your own peace of mind and to rule out any underlying issues with your heart.
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I recently (1-2 months ago) had a bad experience with JWH-018. I overdosed and ended up having very painful palpitations for the rest of the duration. I probably had high blood pressure as well, but the uncomfortableness came mostly from the heart/chest pains that would come in waves (10-15 sec interval between 3-4 very painful beats increasing in strength/speed). After this experience I've been unable to smoke weed without getting uncomfortable chest/heart pains. So I've stopped smoking weed. :'(
I'm thinking of trying mescaline soon, but I'm not sure how safe that is considering my current heart condition. However, I know cannabis increases blood pressure/heart rate more than most other drugs. I've taken a high dose of 2C-B without having any issues since then. The heart rate was elevated, but never uncomfortable.
The last thing I want is to end up with 12 hours of chest pain. So I'm asking here, how is mescaline in regards to heart rate? Should I be safe considering my successful 2C-B trip? I've taken LSD (which I understand is somewhat similar in intensity/head space?) several times before, but not since the JWH overdose.
Cannabis **decreases** blood pressure but can increase heart rate. This means if you are prone to or have developed a heart condition you are at greater risk of having a heart attack in the first hour or so after smoking pot. Stims will increase it as much or more.
What is your "current heart condition"? If you haven't seen a doctor then go see a doctor and get a Holter monitor put on you ASAP.
You want to keep risking your life for some drugs?? They will still be available after you get checked out.
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Definitely don't take any strong stimulants like coke or meth before you know for sure your heart is healthy. I've never heard of a heart attack from pot but I guess it could happen since it speeds it up. I've never tried them and don't know if the synthetic cannabinoids are as safe as the natural stuff.
Do you have anxiety or panic attacks? Maybe the ordeal scared you so much it made you afraid of smoking weed. You could take a benzo or drink a few beers before smoking pot to see if it eases your symptoms.
Mescaline was very stimulating for me. More so than LSD and the after effects like insomnia and lack of appetite lasted a couple hours more. I extracted all the alkaloids from the cactus into a concentrated liquid to drink and didn't separate the mescaline. They likely played some part in my experience.
Mushrooms I think would be safer since they aren't as stimulating and last half as long.
Tread lightly. It's not worth a heart attack to try any drug. Even one as excellent as mescaline. I rank it among the best experiences I've had through a psychedelic. It's certainly a worthwhile journey to take if your ticker is healthy enough. "Hey doc, do you think my heart will attack me if I take mescaline?"
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The sad part is that a heart problem will basically just end your trip in2 the drug world. Almost every drug does something too your heart and a heart problem is a contradiction too taking many kinds of drugs.
It is absolutly essential that you see a doctor and explain everything too him. You cant get in trouble and he has an obligation too help you. You have no business doing any kind of drug until you understand the problems with your heart.
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I'm not sure what my condition is. I've never been aware of my own heart rate before, and I've never had it interrupt me when I'm thinking of something else entirely (like when being at work). I don't have anxiety or panic attacks. The pain I get from smoking weed is not from anxiety, but it might increase it to some extent. regardless, I've stopped smoking weed so it doesn't really matter. Still, I don't want to hold off psychedelics like LSD, MDMA, DMT, 2C* or mescaline, and as far as I know they're not as hard on the heart as (you mention) stimulants and cannabis. ...or perhaps MDMA is? I have not tried MDMA since the JWH-episode.
As I mentioned, the 2C-B trip went great but it's not exactly comparable to mescaline/LSD as I think the potential anxiety from those two could easily increase my current heart beat to an unhealthy level.
I thought it might go away, but so far not much has happened. I had already made a doctors appointment before this post, but in my country it takes a while to get one. I actually can get it trouble for telling my doctor about drugs as there are some loopholes in the country I live in that allows them to do things like take away my drivers license (which might make the police notice). I'll report back to this thread in a couple of weeks when I've been to my doctor's appointment.
just so we're clear; i've never, ever, had any issues with my heart before the JWH-experience. I've taken cannabis, amphetamine, MDMA, LSD, DMT and combinations of those without even being slightly aware of my own heart rate (i have not tried coke/meth. I have no interest in those).
oh, and MDMA compared to mescaline - which one is more likely to increase my heart rate? if 2C-B went fine, then maybe MDMA should too? at least there won't be any room for anxiety.
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Hi,
A few years ago I had a kind of alert about my heart, I went to see a cardiologist for a lot of exams and fortunately everything was ok. Of course you should really wait to see a doctor before taking stimulants or even hallucinogens, most of them are toxic for the heart, and if they are not they could be cut with other products. And you might feel uncomfortable if you focus on your heart beating when tripping !
Try to find a doctor with who you can talk freely about your drugs habits, it's a very important point.
Be patient and take it easy !
WL
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How is MDMA compared to cannabis in terms of heart rate?
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I did a research on JWH-18 and found it did caused an almost permanent damage to many users worldwide. Some even said the psychological damages last for months and years. And some never fully recovered even after 1 and a half year. Lil bro has tried JWH-18 before, but it was such miniscule amount about 3 mg in size maybe, that's a few grains of powder. There was a definite body high and mental buzz (or mental orgasm) after taking it. He will never take larger amount since the possibility of permanent mental-physical damage is evident. Anyway he has moved on to God's natural creation of weed since.
Regarding Mescaline, if you are experienced with shrooms, you shouldn't have a problem with Mescaline. They have cross tolerance effects and lil bro had experimented it before 1st hand. ;-)
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I'm thinking of just doing a low dose to be on the safe side. What would be a low, but still enjoyable dose? 40-50mg? Would it make a difference in terms of safety?
And would it make a difference in terms of serotonin depletion. Does taking a lower dose mean you can take MDMA sooner than you could if you had taken 110mg? (and get desireable effects)
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Just to note that I've had a similar experience, I started with jwh-018 and win-55 then moving onto am-2201 which I found extremely addictive compared to the others, and when my scales broke started to eyeball it. Big mistake. (Although honestly, the dosages were too fine for the cheap scales even before hand.) Anyway, my resting heart rate sits very high now (above 90, often fluctuating to above 100, compared to somewhere 60-70 less than a year before any of this) and I get palpitations if I have caffeine (which sucks, because I find it hard to get things done without the stuff). Anyway, I'm sticking to weed for the immediate future after a couple of months of break from anything, I'd recommend you do the same, although I don't know your exact situation.
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Mescaline has a fairly strong adrenergic component to the experience because of its more similar resemblance to norepinephrine. This means there is a true CNS stimulant effect somewhat resembling a low dose of amphetamine. However, this is not shared by many of the phenethylamine derivatives. I have noticed an increase in heart rate on cactus extraction, especially after smoking weed, that I do not really remember noticing on other psychedelics, such as 4-ho-dmt and LSD. Nothing concerning really though...
MethylenedioxyMETHamphetamine, or MDMA is actually a methylated amphetamine molecule and certainly has very strong stimulant properties so you are aware.
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After having measured by heart rate (90-100) and blood pressure (130/80) I ended up taking 60mg of MDMA. Everything felt fine 2 hours after so I dropped another 110mg. Then it was amazing.
I couldn't even notice my own heart beat (which I could at 2c-b) and my blood pressure was absolutely fine throughout the entire time. It's interesting that I can't/shouldn't smoke weed after the JWH experience, but I could take a total of 170mg MDMA without noticing anything. In fact, my blood pressure and pulse is better than it was before the MDMA. I don't know how that is possible...
I'm taking (170mg) mescaline next, unless mescaline is harder on the heart than MDMA - something I suspect it's not. However, I guess mescaline's bad trip potential could be the real danger here (maybe I could stress myself enough to raise my heart beat to an uncomfortable level)
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My heart didn't feel strained when I drank the mescaline cactus extract. It was beating faster than normal but not bothersome. It felt a little speedier than LSD but not much.
You shouldn't worry too much before tripping. A panic attack from a bad trip will probably raise your heart rate and blood pressure more than the drug itself. MDMA is harder on the brain than most psychedelics. I'm not sure about the body load.
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Since last time I've candyflipped (120+120mg MDMA and LSD). No issues with increased heart rate or anything. However, I still can't smoke weed without getting painful palpitations so I'm laying off it for a few months.
Is Ketamine hard on the heart? Compared to MDMA?
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EXERCISE. Cardio will help repair your heart and make it stronger. I can't stress this enough. I have a very strong heart because of this and have never had any issues with stimulants or synthetic cannabinoids and god knows I've used them a ton!
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If smoking weed is still a problem you could try smoking high CBD strains. There seems to be a consensus that CBD acts to counteract some negative effects of THC. This seemed to work for me at least. Although the first few times seemed to cause slight discomfort that soon stopped.