Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: mseller on August 20, 2011, 03:29 pm
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If somebody already suggest this, sorry..
I suggest to our mods to estublish BTC trust for scam victims. For vendors will be mandatory to throw 1btc or something like that.
What you guys think?
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In all due respect, I don't think that's the best idea. Why should the vendors have to pay for buyers making poor decisions? The only way you're going to really get scammed is by making transactions out of escrow, which I don't recommend at all.
When you start buying illicit substances off the internet there is some risk that comes with it. If you make a transaction with escrow and nothing arrives you should get at least a portion of your BTC back from the seller. I'm not trying to be greedy (1 BTC is practically nothing), but if you're going to set something like this up for the buyers, why not set up something similar for the sellers.
I'm pretty sure I had a package arrive that the buyer said "didn't arrive" and I refunded the entire purchase price mainly because I was scared of negative feedback. That 100% sure does look nice on my profile... So there is more pressure on the seller to try and make the customer happy (even when it's blatantly obvious they're lying).
The way I see it is, if you're a new buyer, go with a trusted seller and make the transaction with the escrow system. If you're stupid enough to make your first transaction with an unknown seller out of escrow you should be ready to call all those BTC a loss, and IF something arrives that's awesome.
Just my 2 cents.
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I am vendor on SR. And that would be for all members of SR market - vendor can ask for reclaim and buyer. Why mandatory for vendors? Well, its their business and in their interest to have more options in scam case.
Trust funds should be published daily in new thread. Reclaim process would be run by our mods. If valid then all must be agree. Also FIFO method.(first in, first out)
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It sucks you got scammed but no one else should have to pay you for it.
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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but if you read the buyer FAQ and use escrow you cannot get scammed. If you go outside or finalize early thats your risk...
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Like mrroboto said..buyer can claim that he never received his order and get 50% refund when vendor has clean reputation. What can vendor do in that case? Or opposite scenario for buyer. Escrow does not mean that buyer/vendor can not be scammed in some degree.
We all vendor here are for the profit and want to make things better. I do not think that 1btc/month in such case, as additional protective layer for all of use can be bad idea.
Even I know how this kind of things is difficult to all agree, I suggested it..
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Like mrroboto said..buyer can claim that he never received his order and get 50% refund when vendor has clean reputation. What can vendor do in that case? Or opposite scenario for buyer. Escrow does not mean that buyer/vendor can not be scammed in some degree.
We all vendor here are for the profit and want to make things better. I do not think that 1btc/month in such case, as additional protective layer for all of use can be bad idea.
Even I know how this kind of things is difficult to all agree, I suggested it..
Good point. What would happen if a reputable vendor like Mrddro had a buyer claim they didnt get anything. He\she has lots of orders and not one negative review. I would assume SR would be on the vendors side and not a first time buyer scammer? Am i wrong? If a seller keeps fucking people ratings go down and the scale tips the other way. Seems pretty good to me.
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Maybe scammers is a wrong term. Shit happens, customs may seize a pack and that way both vendor/buyer lose. That can happen to any vendor and everybody want a completed transactions. I such case, both can be satisfied to receive some btc. There are many things what can went south what is out of buyer/vendor control.
To run a trust and resolve claims would be a hard job. We can vote for several members to run it. Guidelines should be published and all things open.
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If somebody already suggest this, sorry..
I suggest to our mods to estublish BTC trust for scam victims. For vendors will be mandatory to throw 1btc or something like that.
What you guys think?
In all honesty I don't think there would ever be enough btc in the fund to help anyone...I average about 1 btc per week in my moderator donation fund and I read every single post on this forum. Though the community is nice enough for the most part, when it comes to charity there are few willing to step up.
nomad bloodbath
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I got scammed for a... um... 100 BTC. Ah, ya. Ya, that's the ticket. 100 BTC I tell ya. Yes. Indeed. It was a terrible experience and I am all upset about it. I am a good person. Make it up to me. My bitcoin address is standing by. ;D LMAO!!!
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It would promote auto-scamming. Really bad idea.
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It sucks you got scammed but no one else should have to pay you for it.
+1 its the short and sweet answer right there.
this is anonymous - a pool for people would centralize it, because someone got scammed.
karma is the only way to avoid shit like this.
b
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I don't like hearing about people getting there fingers burned but if something like this was put in place, it would just get abused as well. There is already plenty in place to help buyers.
The SR has been rolling along nicely, tweaking here and there. More importantly, existing vendors have had the chance to establish themselves. With feedback and reviews on the forum, it's getting increasingly obvious who can be trusted and who can't and as time goes on it will just get more obvious.
If you really want to buy something and you don't want to get burned, you just have to do some research.
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Thank you guys for your opinions. You have a point. More I think about it, I realize that fond like this would not work. :-\
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but perhaps it is vendors who are more likely to get scammed?
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Its for both.
We could do vendor union and buyer union ;)
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Gotcha. Maybe a voluntary insurance one could buy? are there too many unknowns in the equation to do the actuarial work? As an example vendor buys insurance to protect transactions. package seized in custom, buyer supplies love letter, insurances pays off?
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Yes, good idea. I think and cp proposed something like that in another thread. Well, for sure that would be on beginning hard to operate but is a possibility.
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It was actually a pm to you mseller, but in a nutshell, it would be an insurance pool. I realize that SR will only give 50 percent back to the vendor or buyer. So, there are a lot of factors that would be needed. The pool administrator would have to have access to the insured transactions. But, a buyer could purchase it and a vendor could purchase it. It would pay up to 50 percent of the transaction on the insured side. So, Lets say something got nabbed at customs and the buyer purchased insurance and the buyer would only give 50 percent of a refund or SR said 50 percent was ok, then if they purchased insurance that would cover the remainder that wasn't given.
The biggest factor to over come is scammers abusing the system. That may be enough right there to go no further. But, I do see it as a possibility on certain types of transactions and only insured on certain types (verifiable) incidents. Maybe It should start out as that type of insurance only. Then move forward from there. If insurance is purchased, the claimant would have to provide proof of non-delivery,etc(love letter). This is the main reason I don't purchase/vend to other countries, even though the vast majority of deliveries make it, i dont want to be held responsible for the few that don't..
this would take a lot of thinking, a lot of work, etc. so much so, that I don't know if its worth it.. But, it would be a good idea. I would pay a 10 percent (or whatever) premium to give me peace of mind that if it doesn't make it that I won't lose all or half my money.
I don't think an insurance type program would work for every instance, just because there are so many people would take advantage of it. But, if it were to start out small, maximum dollar amount per claim and started out with overseas/customs incidents, it just may work...Im pretty sure that 90 percent of all packages make it through customs, (more likely closer to 95 or higher)...
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I feel for the ones that get scammed-both vendors and buyers.
I don't feel for the one's that read about scammers on the forum and still
buy from them.
You buys your bitcoins, you takes your chances.
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I just signed on to this board yesterday cuz i was looking for a certain seller but it has been enlightening and lots of nice people are here. This however takes the cake! A fund for scam victems? :o you have to be kidding. I mean I look out for my bros just like y'all do but did it ever dawn on you that scammers just might try and scam the scam fund?
This is going to sound over the top but buying drugs and contraband shit on the web is a fun wholesome experience. ;D ;D!! Seriously though my friends follow the golden rule and treat others as thou so wants to be treated. There will always be bad eggs out their but I have made quite a few purchases and have had no probs and rated all my sellers 5/5. I have followed the instructions set by SR and they have taken some very clever measures to keep everyone on the up and up.
Just had to get my two cents in. A scam victems fund? sheeeesh. I aint contributing to that one.
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I just got scammed for $200 by Kezenaren. I don't expect any kind of charity, but I hope once scammers are identified they are banned ASAP.
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I just find it very interesting that every H vendor that I have seen so far has been a scammer.. Maybe they are all the same person. But seriously, what are the odds of that? I see maybe one out of 4 or 1 out of 2, but EVERY single one? I just find that incredibly odd.
Yep, take Nomads advice and stick to the opana's.. You won't get ripped off while you still get ripped...
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lI would propose one additional reason not to have insurance: education. From a philosophical, but also completely practical point of view, the thing that is most needed is for the buyers (and newbie sellers) to become highly educated about how the business of mail order drug buying works and to avail themselves of all the tools in the tool chest that are there already.
Back when there was no escrow, a buyer had to become very well informed of the reputation of his chosen seller *before* he placed his first order. Because if he didn't, his pocket full of dollars was empty faster than you can type "scammer". ;) I think the features at SR are truly innovative and make this entire process of buying and selling much more professional and efficient. However, we don't want it to become such an easy thing to place an order that the buyers no longer feel any responsibility for holding up their end of the transaction. A good example is using fake names: a buyer can ask for any fake name to be used, even "ship to Barack H. Bama" and if the pack never arrives due to the choice of a stupid name then it is only the seller who is out the BTC. When the buyer used to pay in advance and in full *before* the pack was shipped, you can be damn sure they made 100% sure about the name they wanted on the pack, the address, zip code, the works.
Fifteen years ago when I first tried my hand at being a seller I probably shipped 300 packs in the first 90 days and still lost money. Why? Because I really didn't know my butt from a hole in the ground and I was learning how to do business on the Internet. It was a totally different animal than F2F and I *had to* learn how to do it properly. If I had been lazy and not learned during that initial 90 days, I would have gone out of business...and rightfully so! :)
Yet nothing is foolproof...or should I say "joeblow2-proof". A month or so ago I rented a new P.O. box at one of those UPS stores. I ordered from McDdro and he speedily shipped me. I never got the pack. When I started backtracking my steps I found I had given McDdro the wrong address: there were TWO UPS stores within 2 blocks of each other on the same street and I had looked up the wrong one on Google when I had forgotten to take a biz card from the nice UPS store owner when I rented the box. So, I lost about $500 and didn't ask McDdro to do anything about it because it was 0% his fault. I mean, who ever heard of TWO UPS stores within a mile of each other? Obviously NOT ME! hahahaha! Oh well, live and learn. :D But my point is: having professional behaving sellers and highly educated buyers is the best way on Earth to have a truly successful drug forum.
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I am a new buyer and I orders 200 pills from AAKOVEN about 6 weeks ago. The order totaled $1200.00. I know that you should not FE and I did not want to! I requested to have my auto-finalize date extended through the resolution center because I hadn't received anything yet and he messaged me asking me to finalize because I am a new buyer. I saw his rating was pretty high and I trusted that he had sent them so STUPIDLY I finalized! This was the biggest mistake I have made in a long time.
I borrowed the $1200.00 from someone so that I could get this venture going so I could start making money off importing these pills. After 6 weeks I have received NOTHING! He told me that he would send in two separate envelopes and neither have arrived. I also orders 1g cocaine and 10 LSD blotters on the same day that I orders the pills and both of those arrived after 3 weeks. They were both waiting in my post box together. I do not believe that both packages were stolen because that is just unfuckingbelievable! What are the chances that both packages from the same vendor get stolen and everything makes it through fine? Absolute bullfuckingshit!!!!
I'm now sitting with a $1200.00 debt and I know that he fucked me over on this order! But what I don't understand is why he would rip off someone who is making such a big order? Clearly I was going to be a good customer but now that he butt-fucked me I will most definitely not be doing business with him again and I recommend that no else should either! If you do - STAY IN ESCROW!!!!
Through my communication with him, he didn't even know where the fuck I was from, after telling him TWICE before he still got it wrong, TWICE! Thought I was from two different countries. I know he never sent them, just pocketed my cash! He also told me that he will send me 10 pills as a tester to see if they make it - I guarantee you they will get "stolen" again! He never fucking sent these ones either! Bet your fucking ass-off!!! Besides, like 10 will make up for the $1200.00 loss I've now got!
FUCK AAKOVEN! I will be much better off buying from someone else like SKYY in future! If this was real-world I'd cut his fucking nuts off for this amount of money!!!
Anyway, I've accepted after 6 weeks of anxiously waiting that they will not be coming so now I'm just out to warn everyone about this fuck-tard!!!!
My order of $1200.00 should also impact his rating greatly, pitty it was a custom listing so no one will be able to see my review!
He's offered me a 25% refund which I suppose is better than nothing.... BUT STILL, i've lost over $900 - he's just pocketed that cash for nothing!!! I'm now on a mission to stop this from happening to other unlucky victims of the shithead!
Read my forum post here: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=42001.0
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Seriously guys, DON'T FE PERIOD! No matter how many good reviews the vendor has or what he promises you in return. You just can't trust anyone in the drug business. Vendor asks you to FE? FIND SOMEONE ELSE! In all my years of copping dope and coke in the city I've seen people get ripped off over and over again because they let down their guard and it's no different ordering shit on the internet. This is just basic drug buying 101.
It really sucks to read through these forums and see so many people get ripped off from FEing so please don't do it for any reason whatsoever.