Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: chronicpain on July 12, 2011, 03:31 pm
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I have heard this a million times. "I wish that I would have never picked up the needle". I'm not knocking those that do at all. Not only are there tolerance and od issues. You will eventually make your veins collapse with prolonged use. I have a buddy who can only go in his neck because everything else is shot, no pun intended.
Most people start orally, then they go nasally. then that doesn't work that well so the next step is the needle.
Also, if you do IV. don't use your feet. Blood clots can form very easily if its done this way.
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Yes please stick with sniffing opiates as long as possible.
IVing drugs is very dangerous in all sorts of ways.
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Here, here.
I haven't used anything IV in about 14 years and it's STILL nearly impossible for me to get an IV in the hospital. My veins were never much to start with, but they're completely destroyed (and I only fu*cked around with needles for about 9 months). Beyond that, my tolerance for anything opiod or drugs in general is way off too. What normally knocks people out with one pill, doesn't even phase me; this is a result of that kind of intense, direct use. Just my two cents. And that tolerance has NEVER gone away.
Aside from the fact that once you start using IV, your tolerance and ability to get off on things really becomes skewed, it's SO easy to destroy yourself. If you MUST, use a new needle EVERY TIME (you can get them for a few bucks a box online).
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Yes please stick with sniffing opiates as long as possible.
IVing drugs is very dangerous in all sorts of ways.
+1
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Well put! If you take opiates or coke long enough, you're going to end up with a big ass habit. But, you can scale down an oral or even a nasal habit. I've never had a friend who could scale back once they hit the needle. They just do everything till it's gone OR they run out and have to go thru withdrawal.
I've kicked oxy (chewing them, no sniff or IV) from 800mg a day, every day for 3 years, tapering down to 20mg and then zero. It sucked and it took 3 weeks, but I did it. Not once, but twice. So, it is *possible*. :)
@happytree-good point on the tolerance. It took me 5 years to go from 2 Lortab 10's a day to 800mg OC. But once I was off and clean for 2 years, it took me less than *6 months* to go from one roxi 30mg for fun right back to 800mg a day. The cumulative tolerance thing *appears* to never go away. At least that's my take on it.
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I know it sounds disgusting and gross, but rectal "Plugging" method gives you a bigger rush than snorting, very close to IV without the major problems of doing so.. when i use this method, it is at least twice the effectiveness as nasal or oral.
This is my method:
Materials:
get a pill crusher from the drug store.. makes things easy...
ask pharmacy for a oral syringe.. i use a 5ml one
lube
1) Crush your pill and leave it in the crusher
2) run the faucet until water is warm, fill syringe with about 4ml of warm water
3) squirt the water in the crusher with the powdered pill and mix it around until its dissolved fairly well
4) fill the contents back into the syringe, leave a little air in the syringe too, this will help all contents expell
5) here comes the fun part... lube it up and insert about 3 inches and let it rip... lay on your side for about 15min and dont use the bathroom during that time!!
believe me, it works VERY well.. last night i did two percocets that way and if felt the same as if i had taken a 30mg oxy AND a 15mg orally
It seems to me that other than orally, this method would have the least health risks involved.. i may be wrong, and please correct me if i am, but i know that snorting pills over a long duration of time can have a very bad outcome..
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You can recover your veins but it will take much time and effort. They won't come back by themselves. I used to have a pretty nasty IV habit a few years ago and just recently I seen the veins in my elbow crooks poking back out. How did I accomplish this? Alot of working out. Lifting + cardio. And I mean ALOT. The more cardio you do the harder your heart works to pump blood through these veins and eventually your veins will adapt and grow bigger and come out of the muscle where they have receded. This took me years but honestly a couple years to see my veins come back is relatively short time to see these results. Most IV users never see their veins again!
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That is correct envius.
Exercise and walk, run, gimnastic - that is a cure for veins. Some veins never recover, but new grow up (dont shoot in those!)
B vitamin may help with veins and scares. Just put every day on surface and that is it. Vitamin B is liquid oily substance in capsule so remove it and dilute with ordinary or some aromatic oil as a filler.
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I know it sounds disgusting and gross, but rectal "Plugging" method gives you a bigger rush than snorting, very close to IV without the major problems of doing so.. when i use this method, it is at least twice the effectiveness as nasal or oral.
This is my method:
Materials:
get a pill crusher from the drug store.. makes things easy...
ask pharmacy for a oral syringe.. i use a 5ml one
lube
1) Crush your pill and leave it in the crusher
2) run the faucet until water is warm, fill syringe with about 4ml of warm water
3) squirt the water in the crusher with the powdered pill and mix it around until its dissolved fairly well
4) fill the contents back into the syringe, leave a little air in the syringe too, this will help all contents expell
5) here comes the fun part... lube it up and insert about 3 inches and let it rip... lay on your side for about 15min and dont use the bathroom during that time!!
believe me, it works VERY well.. last night i did two percocets that way and if felt the same as if i had taken a 30mg oxy AND a 15mg orally
It seems to me that other than orally, this method would have the least health risks involved.. i may be wrong, and please correct me if i am, but i know that snorting pills over a long duration of time can have a very bad outcome..
in the meth world, this is known as a "booty bump" ::)
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I know it sounds disgusting and gross, but rectal "Plugging" method gives you a bigger rush than snorting, very close to IV without the major problems of doing so.. when i use this method, it is at least twice the effectiveness as nasal or oral.
This is my method:
Materials:
get a pill crusher from the drug store.. makes things easy...
ask pharmacy for a oral syringe.. i use a 5ml one
lube
1) Crush your pill and leave it in the crusher
2) run the faucet until water is warm, fill syringe with about 4ml of warm water
3) squirt the water in the crusher with the powdered pill and mix it around until its dissolved fairly well
4) fill the contents back into the syringe, leave a little air in the syringe too, this will help all contents expell
5) here comes the fun part... lube it up and insert about 3 inches and let it rip... lay on your side for about 15min and dont use the bathroom during that time!!
believe me, it works VERY well.. last night i did two percocets that way and if felt the same as if i had taken a 30mg oxy AND a 15mg orally
It seems to me that other than orally, this method would have the least health risks involved.. i may be wrong, and please correct me if i am, but i know that snorting pills over a long duration of time can have a very bad outcome..
in the meth world, this is known as a "booty bump" ::)
LOL i don't want to know how you found that out. ;D
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I just smoked a key size bump of Fentynal (Watson) gel and was immediately BLITZED, as if I'd IV'd the damn stuff. So, for those of you IV users who think it's never the same, (as I once thought), believe me it IS! 8)
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How about IM injection?
It seems 'healthier' long term, in that you can change sites very easily, and won't damage veins. Is this so?
Can opiates even be absorbed via IM? Sure it would be slower I guess... but faster than oral.
There must be some problem with it. I've got a feeling that if it worked, it would be a much more popular route of administration.
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Yes, IM works just fine, but I find it almost painful. I strongly prefer SC injections, which are even safer and virtually painless.
Aside from that rectal administration is your best bet. Safe and efficient!
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How about IM injection?
It seems 'healthier' long term, in that you can change sites very easily, and won't damage veins. Is this so?
Can opiates even be absorbed via IM? Sure it would be slower I guess... but faster than oral.
There must be some problem with it. I've got a feeling that if it worked, it would be a much more popular route of administration.
Well infections are quite common as well with IM.
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I shuttered when you said IM infections, Nomad..I did that a few years ago and got the worst infection I have ever seen, let alone have. The doctor said that it was in his top 5 of all time. If you Im, always use a new needle and make sure all of the pill particles are out. Wheel filter it or cotton filter the shit out of it.
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I shuttered when you said IM infections, Nomad..I did that a few years ago and got the worst infection I have ever seen, let alone have. The doctor said that it was in his top 5 of all time. If you Im, always use a new needle and make sure all of the pill particles are out. Wheel filter it or cotton filter the shit out of it.
I've seen more Ketamine issues than Opiates but I'm sure there are more Opiate users that have had problems.
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I had a friend in high school who sucked the vitamin E looking oil out of a placidyl 750mg one time and shot it in his arm. I wasn't in the same room, I don't know if he missed or what. But the bump after about 20mins was godawful! Around 2" high and bigger than a golf ball. It took a very long time to go down...it's been so long I just don't remember exactly. It did, however, make it so I never stuck a needle in my arm.
That said, there were times I ran so low on oxy that I did use a diabetic needle in my butt but that's just too stupid to think about ever again... :-X
I think this kind of thread is about the best a drug forum can do at true harm reduction when it comes to needles.
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I highly suggest all IV users look to a way to get off the needle. While you can.
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I get the tone of the thread yet my experience differs. I love jacking up and haven't had any problems so far with it. Why? Because even after 7 years of using needles the only things I've injected are pharmaceutical grade solutions (mostly boosted from my doc) and RCs (which is dangerous but rather not for reasons of purity).
There is a major misconception that IM is safer than IV. IM injections with impure substances are more likely to cause inflammation, abscesses, necrosis, etc. because once a non-soluble particle is stuck in the muscle tissue it's far harder to dissolve. Generally this problem is not as severe with IV injections (although there you run the risk of creating an embolism).
Generally said: stick to plugging as the most efficient RoA especially if you're dealing with substances of uncertain purity.
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..some drug like methamphetamine is lipophobic. That mean not soluble in lipid tissue (fat). So may stuck at injection site and became very fast infected.
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Methamphetamine as it's hydrochloride is readily soluble in water. As its freebase its a totally different beast but if you inject that you're just playing Darwin's game because it's alkaline as shit.
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Well, all drugs in salt form are ussualy water souble. That have nothing to do with what I have said in previous post /lipo properties does not change regardless is it a freebase or a salt.
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Yes, it changes the game majorly if a substance is in its freebase or salt form and it's also relevant what salt we are talking about. This is basic chemistry and pharmacology we are talking about. And also your theory bears a major logical flaw: a hydrophile substance is far easier transported away from its injection site due to the aqueos nature of the body.
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aqueous nature of the body? Well, under skin is lipid tissue and if lipophobic substance stucked there, body can not absorb it easily like lipophylic substance. There is no aqueous nature there. I am talking if you miss a vein, and for im,sc injections. Lipid layer is not aqueous. Cell has a membrane and it does not matter what is aqueous inside, its container. So conclusion is: if you shoot lipophobic substance into tissue, you have a good chance to get site infected. Dont mix those two with hydrofyilic/fobic properties. That is what I meant to say.
I will say it more simple; both methamphetamine and heroin as a hcl salt are water soluble but only heroin is also lipid(fat) soluble and meth is not.
Another thing is that body will eventually absorb it, but if substance is not sterile in that time frame can became infected. Even more that with such property body think that substance is a foreign body and puss is formed.
Either way, methamphetamine as a freebase is a oily substance/liquid. Even if you want to shoot it it must be dissolved in water. Ph lowering substance must be added (citric).
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If you inject a substance only very little goes directly into a cell. Most of it is lodged in the intercellular room which consists mostly of water. Lipophobic and hydrophilic are synonymous terms because they just refer to the polarity of the substance. Saying heroin is lipophile nad meth is not is simply false. It depends if they're present as freebase or their conjugated salts. To be absorbed into a cell meaning pass the lipid bilayer the salts first have to disproportionate.
Either way you can shoot methbase directly. It's just a question if want you to burn a hole in your veins.
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Saying heroin is lipophile nad meth is not is simply false. It depends if they're present as freebase or their conjugated salts.
That is not true. Heroin is lipophylic and morphine is lipophobic. That is a main reason why heroin is "stonger" then morphine.Heroin pass faster in brain so has stonger potential.
Anyhow, go inform yourself first. I have not energy to translate in english and to explain to you different facts. Go and read and back it up, then draw your own conclusions on subject.
First go and look diference in morphine and heroin and why is heroin potent over morphine.
Meth freebase has some alkanity but far from why you have said. You nix different things here. ph value range is 1-7-14. 7 is neutral. Ph of meth feebase(pure) is around 8-9. high alkanity is 13-14. Normal ph of blood is 5-6. Anybody can adjust ph of solution very easily.Please just stop..
Shoot pure meth freebase directly..That thick oil?? how? :o (do you just think you could or you actually did it?)
Most of it is lodged in the intercellular room which consists mostly of water
Yeah, in your dreams maybe ::)
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Thank you for trying to lecture me on basic chemistry and pharmacology. I've done my share of semesters. Heroin as such doesn't even reach the brain as it has a halflife of a few seconds. The esterases in the blood rapidly metabolize it to 6-MAM which has a halflife of a few minutes but can reach the brain due to the lowered polarity. The intrinsic effect is not that much stronger than that of morphine yet accounts for the rush. The 'finalized' morphine is the main active metabolite of heroin.
Methamphetamine is a secondare amine with a low steric effect on the pH. With a pKa of 10.1 put in on your skin and see what happens.
Purified methamphetamine base isn't that thick and could be injected if you wanted to.
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What that have to do with lipophobic properties? You claim that hydrophylic automaticly mean lipophobic when that clearly is not true fact! You claim that methamphetamine is not lipophobic and mix different terms here. Dispute that or stop with pointless debate!
Do me a favor and dont include facts what have nothing with a subject!
I will repeat; lipophylic heroin property is a main reason why heroin is "absorbed" or "passed" to brain receptors. When morphine, lipophobic is not and chemistry diference between are known fact. And to add, both are water soluble when in salt form. So based on that, how you can say that hydro/lipo preperties are false and synonymous?
10,1 pka -2 =8,1ph (that is close calc what I have said earlier,)
That value of meth freebase Pka 10,1 is only starting point (reference) for dissociate constant/Equilibrium calculation. That is not PH value!
Anyhow your Pka values has nothing to do with..... nothing really.... Pka has meaning when substance is dissolved in some medium.
You are rumbling with phrases here..its unbelivible. Go and find what Pka really means and what is equilibrium constant
from wiki;
The larger the value of pKa, the smaller the extent of dissociation. A weak acid has a pKa value in the approximate range −2 to 12 in water.(meth freebase is not water soluble)
so Pka of 10,1 really means nothing and that value vary. When substance is dissolved then has some meaning. (but nothing with a topic)
example
sodium bicarbonate has Pka when dissolved in water 6,33-10,33 (so what? If I put it on my skin nothing will happen) Skin and skin pain receptors are entaraly different story!
But pure sodium bicarbonate has not ph or pka value! Not yet, only when dissolved in water what then depend on ratio and volume. Same thing is with meth freebase.
Please stop throwing phrases without point and topic.
Just to clear something; everything you have said in replay #18 is true. I dont know why you argue with me. On that replay I just added fact where is danger of injecting (IM,SC) lipophobic substance. Its does not matter in which form they are (salt or freebase).Your claim that Lipophobic and hydrophilic are synonymous is not true. You have numerous substance what are both water and lipid soluble! That is a fact and not assumption. Please if you dont belive me or dont agree then present relevant info.