Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: performance on July 06, 2011, 06:16 am

Title: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: performance on July 06, 2011, 06:16 am
I ordered from a seller (who will remain unnamed) a few days ago and my order was canceled, and I get this message:

"I went ahead and canceled that order because the price of bitcoin went down, you can re-order it now and ill ship out tomorrow morning"

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A buyer doesn't have the luxury of canceling when the price goes up (nor should they). In my opinion, buyers and sellers need to commit to the order regardless of price movements. Perhaps if a seller cancels, they can be charged some percentage of the transaction BTC.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: DigitalAlch on July 06, 2011, 06:32 am
Agreed. I have lost lots but I care little. I am turning people onto great things:D

Peace,
DigtialAlch
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: phubaiblues on July 06, 2011, 06:44 am
yeah, seems kind of chickenshit...there's been a lot of talk about finding a way to protect sellers from this, and I"m all for something in place...but to do it arbitrarily isn't right...if there was a way to add a certain percentage if btc goes down before buy is completed or something, but you don't want people just blowing off a transaction when they don't like the exchange rate...
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: rake on July 06, 2011, 06:47 am
What about orders that are marked in-transit then you get a message asking whether you want to upgrade your shipping methods with a healthy 30% margin on the USPS prices.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: ketuvim on July 06, 2011, 06:50 am
bitcoin is not a perfect system.  don't expect a seller to sit there and take a loss on a deal if they don't have to.  that's just naive.  we're here to make money
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: DigitalAlch on July 06, 2011, 06:55 am
Huh, so should I add in my sig NOT just here to make money?
Please don't speak for everyone.

Peace,
DigitalAlch
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 06, 2011, 06:58 am
I've never had a seller cancel an order, so I don't know:  Do you get to give feedback when a seller cancels an order like that?

If so, you should totally give the guy a 1/5.

Cancelling the order because BTC dropped is unacceptable.  The guy should've had that contingency figured into his price.  Besides that, the price will eventually go up again.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 06, 2011, 07:05 am
If nothing else, I think you should name that seller by name here.

Edit: Is this him?

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=612.msg4534#msg4534

Either way, never doing business with that guy.  Shitty business practice!
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: performance on July 06, 2011, 07:47 am
If nothing else, I think you should name that seller by name here.

Edit: Is this him?

The problem is completely with the seller, it's with the Silk Road. I proposed that buyers should be allowed to leave feedback on a canceled transaction. Either that, or some other disincentive needs to be put into place. I would rather not name the individual because quite frankly, there are a shortage of sellers and we need the market to grow.

It is not the person mentioned in the other thread.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: BenzoMan on July 06, 2011, 12:44 pm
My customers can be sure that no matter how low the btc price is - they will get their item(s)! I have two orders today, i don't care about the Bitcoin price. Come on, we sellers KNOW that the bitcoin price is very fluctuating and by offering items on SR you have to ACCEPT this fact.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: chronicpain on July 06, 2011, 02:47 pm
I also, honored all purchases regardless of what  happened to the btc. im not trying to toot my own horn, but the buyer agreed to a price and the he/she paid what was asked. I lost over 200 bucks just on one transaction alone. I think its bad business to cancel an order. But, the BTC, is starting to make a little comeback...So, im not too worried..(until it dives again, lol)
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: redtide on July 06, 2011, 02:49 pm
just posted this in another thread:

Would the same seller give you a partial refund of BTC values went up?
I doubt it. Once the seller agrees to a sale, it should be binding.
Unless, of course the buyer wishes to release him/her from the obligation.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: anarcho47 on July 06, 2011, 03:00 pm
@performance - This is a site based on free market prinicipals.  You are part of that market.  If you don't like what a seller is doing, put it out there (including his name) and let the community know what's up.  The seller will have just as much opportunity to post a rebuttal to any claims you make, but this way buyers can know what they are getting in to.

A buyer has only a couple of ways to know he is getting a smooth transaction and the product he wants - feedback on the seller, and forum posts on the seller.  I am only a seller on here but if I was going to buy something I found that I liked, you can bet I would be doing a forum search for that username to see what others are saying about him.  Do other buyers a favour and lay it out there - this keeps sellers accountable automatically.  if they know they are going to get called out in the forums for shafting a customer like that, they will be less inclined to do it and more inclined to bite the bullet and ship it out.

When BTC collapsed last month I got burned good and I had to ship a couple of products at a small loss (thank got they weren't larger orders!).  I still did it, because I want to be consistent, and if you sign up as a seller here you have to have been watching the BTC price, so you know exactly what you are getting into.  If you don't, as a seller, it's your own damned fault.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: phubaiblues on July 06, 2011, 06:27 pm
I agree: the sellers I've dealt with have gone out of their way to make things right.  One seller, got ripped on *his* end, and out of his own pocket replaced all the shit, and quit selling it was such a bummer.  I don't know the details, but that's basically what happened.  Other sellers pm when shit happens, so we don't worry.  Or, they take part in the open discussions we've had on here, when packages don't show, and  let us all know what happened...this happened over the fourth, and several sellers had problems, but they all let us know what had happened, and so we would deal with it appropriately.

I think--as I"ve stated--a good way to deal with this is to have an optional 'avoid escrow' button that buyers can click so seller can get paid immediately.  Good sellers won't take advantage, and it should only be allowed for sellers who have a certain amount of points/successful transactions.   Point is, it would solve a lot of these problems, and from what I read, the majority of sellers and buyers have good relationships, and why not reward them?
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: j789745 on July 06, 2011, 11:43 pm
If I sold and pegged it to the dollar, like most sellers, I'd be happy when people bought the products at low BTC value. Let's say I sell a $200USD product and the BTC value is 13. Well, I get 15.38BTC. Given how BTC always seems to dip and climb, it seems safe to assume that at some point after your BTC are available from escrow, the price will have risen again and you'll have a higher quantity of BTC at a better rate, meaning the seller spent $200, but you may get $250 or $300. I feel bad for all the sellers who sold at 24 to 30 BTC then probably only got 17 or so when their escrow cleared.


EDIT: Above doesn't make sense; I initially thought the seller was canceling because the value of BTC went up... posted early in morning. :) Still, either way, this seller shouldn't have canceled. BTC will climb back up again; there's not much to worry about.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: rake on July 07, 2011, 01:38 pm
The problem is not the sellers who act right or wrong in honoring sales.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the sellers.

The problem is that the SR system is designed to allow sellers to dishonor any sale they wish for any reason they wish and the buyer does not have the same ability.

Change the system and make its equal and consistent for both the buyer and the seller.

That's just like real life.  A seller does not have to complete a sale if they don't want to.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: ketuvim on July 07, 2011, 02:27 pm
I guess maybe we need start hanging a sign on the door.

"I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason"
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: envious on July 07, 2011, 04:52 pm
I'm not gonna lie. Bitcoin volatity was a major factor in my decision to quit vending.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: performance on July 07, 2011, 06:07 pm
>That's just like real life.  A seller does not have to complete a sale if they don't want to.

I disagree. When a buyer places an order, there is an implicit "good faith" contract between buyer and seller. Both parties are agreeing to the risk of BTC fluctuation. The buyer's funds become unavailable to them. What if the buyer finds the same product at a lower price? They cannot cancel the order, and their funds are tied up. However, the seller is able to cancel.

To me, canceling an order because BTC fluctuated is the equivalent of breaking a contract. It is just as bad if a buyer was to game the system on account of the BTC going up.

This is a real problem, and it needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Seller that cancels an order because BTC went down in value?
Post by: j789745 on July 07, 2011, 06:46 pm
Yeah, the reality of this is that a seller has a right to cancel the order for any reason while its still processing. I don't want to change this, but I do think a seller doing what this one did is bad form and I would have no problem with posting about them in Rumor Mill so others who feel the same way can avoid him/her.