The bond's lack of protection. Unfair & illogical.

[UKP2014]

The complete lack of logic is this:

I plan to scam (which I am not!)
I pay the $200 'bond' and 'prove' myself for 6 weeks/$1500 transactions or whatever the requirements are.
I get my $200 back, everyone  now trusts me a a great vendor & then I scam the hell out of my trusted fools, selling bulk, pleasing gullibles to even FE as they trust me so much. After all I invested in a bond - what could go wrong? No bond will ever stop scammers. In fact as a matter of trust the trust should be working in reverse.......no bond as an apology for such a F**K up by idealist Ross. It's even making me think this site is going down after 6 weeks with all the bond money. Don't flame me for this. If I am not to be trusted, why should I trust a site which lost millions? Oh but this is NOT Silk Road - I forgot that one....it's a lookalikee.
I know folk have short attention spans these days but not THAT short.

You can see this 'bond' is a stupid idea can you not?  Or am I alone on this?

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

The bond system does not protect against long term scam opportunities and it was not designed nor advertised to do such a thing as there is nothing short of storing vendor dox that we can do to stop such things happening except proactively policing the resolution center. What it does do is prevent people starting scam schemes without the initial startup capital since we have found a lot of people who scammed in the days of no bonds are the people who do not have the money to anyway and have resorted to scamming to gain any money at all. Those are the people the bond system tries to protect against and as long term users will testify, higher bonds result is lower quantities of opportunistic scammers. The bond system however should not be seen as any means by which to verify if anyone is trustworthy or not, that is left to the judgement and gut instinct of individuals and collected intelligence from trends in the resolution center by staff.

[AnImperfectSquare]

I didn't know that's how it worked. Can you suggest a better way to insure new sellers are genuine?

[UKP2014]

The bond system does not protect against long term scam opportunities and it was not designed nor advertised to do such a thing as there is nothing short of storing vendor dox that we can do to stop such things happening except proactively policing the resolution center. What it does do is prevent people starting scam schemes without the initial startup capital since we have found a lot of people who scammed in the days of no bonds are the people who do not have the money to anyway and have resorted to scamming to gain any money at all. Those are the people the bond system tries to protect against and as long term users will testify, higher bonds result is lower quantities of opportunistic scammers. The bond system however should not be seen as any means by which to verify if anyone is trustworthy or not, that is left to the judgement and gut instinct of individuals and collected intelligence from trends in the resolution center by staff.

OK but if they lack the $200 initially their ability to buy stock will be limited anyway. Then the trusted escrow system kicks in, the scammer will VERY quickly get ousted/found out by reports & the feedback system. I still conclude it is illogical. A BETTER system - and probably why BMR has such a high initial startup rate is that it is NOT refundable & requires a genuine investment. I still cannot see the point.
Buyers will be more on the ball/less trustworthy/less likely to FE if they knew there were bondless sellers. They will buy fewer too. Very quick to feedback. I say let the dice drop where they will......things will soon settle, relationships made & we'll be back to the old SR which was based more on vendor>buyer trust rather than buyer>SR trust.
Maybe I have Vulcan blood?

[n t m]

"Oh but this is NOT Silk Road - I forgot that one....it's a lookalikee."

Yet you claim you should be entitled to a free vendor account here because you lost money on the old SR. The admins on this site didn't have to give out free vendor accounts, even to the ones who could verify themselves but they did it anyway.

Your logic is fucked and its obvious you're just pissed off after losing money the last time round. Be grateful you didn't lose your freedom as well as your cash. And if you can't buy into that then maybe you should find another job that caters better to your paranoia.

[DrMDA]

DUDE FUCKING GIVE IT UP! For days now you are bitching every single place you go about a fucking measly $200 bond that you ultimately get back! Then you threaten to go to BMR where they have a nonrefundable $500 fee. Just freakin stop already. Either cough up the miniscule amount of money or go elsewhere, damn. I paid DPR $200 for an account and 6 hours later Sarge verified my identity for a free account. I didn't even bother asking for the $200 back because it's not a big freakin deal.

[DrMDA]

I hereby propose a $1,000 bond refundable after 2 months. Keeps scammers away and ultimately doesn't cost legit vendors a dime. Fuck if I knew the site would stay up for 2 months I would even shell out a $10,000 bond. Not a big deal.

[UKP2014]

"Oh but this is NOT Silk Road - I forgot that one....it's a lookalikee."

Yet you claim you should be entitled to a free vendor account here because you lost money on the old SR. The admins on this site didn't have to give out free vendor accounts, even to the ones who could verify themselves but they did it anyway.

Your logic is fucked and its obvious you're just pissed off after losing money the last time round. Be grateful you didn't lose your freedom as well as your cash. And if you can't buy into that then maybe you should find another job that caters better to your paranoia.

And it's statements like this which are keeping top vendors away. Keep off the gear if you cannot see simple logic - and I have tried to make it simple for those like you rather than going down a deeper rabbithole which I can, believe me. Re. Paranoia. OK 3 words: Black Flag Project. Another 3: War On Drugs.
My freedom was never in doubt as my OPSEC, as yours should be, should be a priority. Tell you what, write a letter to Ross & thank him for his lack of paranoia. How did that work out for him/us? Duh!

Simple enough for you, DUDE lol? OK ignore me, ignore being para & don't drop the soap.

[Synergy]

"Oh but this is NOT Silk Road - I forgot that one....it's a lookalikee."

Yet you claim you should be entitled to a free vendor account here because you lost money on the old SR. The admins on this site didn't have to give out free vendor accounts, even to the ones who could verify themselves but they did it anyway.

Your logic is fucked and its obvious you're just pissed off after losing money the last time round. Be grateful you didn't lose your freedom as well as your cash. And if you can't buy into that then maybe you should find another job that caters better to your paranoia.

And it's statements like this which are keeping top vendors away. Keep off the gear if you cannot see simple logic - and I have tried to make it simple for those like you rather than going down a deeper rabbithole which I can, believe me. Re. Paranoia. OK 2 words: Black Flag Project. Another 3: War On Drugs.
My freedom was never in doubt as my OPSEC, as yours should be, should be a priority. Tell you what, write a letter to Ross & thank him for his lack of paranoia. How did that work out for him/us? Duh!

Give it a few months and every single top vendor and some will be vending on this site and you can mark my words because no one is going to give up the opportunity to vend on the market leader with the most buyers.

If you think a $200 bond is going to deter a vendor who could be making $50k a week you a slightly misguided.

[DrMDA]

You are no where near a top vendor UPK. I have never even heard of you before. Even by your own admission you were just a small timers. Top vendors profit $100,000 a month and do not bitch about $200.

[n t m]

There's plenty of top vendors still on here, most of the vendors I ever ordered off of anyway. You wouldn't know simple logic if it smacked you in the face - this much is obvious.

If you don't want to pay the fee, and you have massive problems with how the site is run, I have ask - why you are even here in the first place?

Personally I think there's a screw loose with you, but that's just me.

[UKP2014]

There's plenty of top vendors still on here, most of the vendors I ever ordered off of anyway. You wouldn't know simple logic if it smacked you in the face - this much is obvious.

If you don't want to pay the fee, and you have massive problems with how the site is run, I have ask - why you are even here in the first place?

Personally I think there's a screw loose with you, but that's just me.

Yep, I think it is just you.
The $200 is not the point. The point of it, illusion of protection for buyers, IS. Where will you go if SR2 goes down? Will you wait for SR3, SR4.....fool me once as GW Bush nearly said (LOL) Fools will I suppose. I can afford a LOT more than $200. I am pissed at losing $$. Should I not be? OK it's only money so what are YOU doing here?? Let me take your house/car and tell me 'ah well, these things happen'. I conclude you are a US citizen and I never once thought a spineless jellyfish mentality existed there, but we don't have fluoride in UK drinking water so that could be the cause.

As for giving it up......thought this was a free & open forum? Am I now some sort of terrorist for going against the grain? WTF has happened to the forums?

[DrMDA]

^^^^ May I make a suggestion. Either do drugs or sell drugs but don't do both. Drug selling and drug using have no place together.

[UKP2014]

^^^^ May I make a suggestion. Either do drugs or sell drugs but don't do both. Drug selling and drug using have no place together.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Make a valid point as you are coming across as a fool.

[Synergy]

^^^^ May I make a suggestion. Either do drugs or sell drugs but don't do both. Drug selling and drug using have no place together.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Make a valid point as you are coming across as a fool.

I think you might have overlooked the fact most of your posts are peppered with sarcasm, just sayin'

[UKP2014]

True but it's done without wanting harm personally, what's coming back at me is bile. Big difference. Sad it's come to this. Forum full of trolls putting their fingers to their ears and saying La La La all is well with everything and I trust my new masters. Can't go there, sorry. I say what I feel.

[n t m]

Yep, I think it is just you.
The $200 is not the point. The point of it, illusion of protection for buyers, IS. Where will you go if SR2 goes down? Will you wait for SR3, SR4.....fool me once as GW Bush nearly said (LOL) Fools will I suppose. I can afford a LOT more than $200. I am pissed at losing $$. Should I not be? OK it's only money so what are YOU doing here?? Let me take your house/car and tell me 'ah well, these things happen'. I conclude you are a US citizen and I never once thought a spineless jellyfish mentality existed there, but we don't have fluoride in UK drinking water so that could be the cause.

As for giving it up......thought this was a free & open forum? Am I now some sort of terrorist for going against the grain? WTF has happened to the forums?

fuck knows what that rant was all about. I don't speak spastic and I refuse to spend time trying to decipher that post.

I am from the UK, not the US.

Also, your English is terrible, especially for someone from the UK. Should you be pissed off for losing money? Sure. Should you blame everyone else? No. Should you be grateful you are not in Belmarsh? Yes.

PS: I pissed myself laughing at that terrorist against the grain analogy.

[Synergy]

Well some healthly skepticism and paranoia never hurt anyone, it is good to ask questions and challenge what you are not happy with. I do get the impression some of your anger towards SR might be misplaced but lets see what happens over the coming months, as things start to come together your feelings and attitudes might change, or not who knows.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, a safe, secure and reliable service so if we are all pulling in that direction something good has gotta happen right? well I hope so anyway.

[UKP2014]

Well some healthly skepticism and paranoia never hurt anyone, it is good to ask questions and challenge what you are not happy with. I do get the impression some of your anger towards SR might be misplaced but lets see what happens over the coming months, as things start to come together your feelings and attitudes might change, or not who knows.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, a safe, secure and reliable service so if we are all pulling in that direction something good has gotta happen right? well I hope so anyway.

Apart from "I do get the impression some of your anger towards SR might be misplaced" you are turning out to be a good unbiased Mod Synergy. You did have that little mistake when you told a user to take their business elsewhere, but we all make mistakes & you said sorry so you have promise. Thanks!

Yes things might change. If anyone cares to read my earlier posts they would not know me as UKP2014 - that would be foolish. I did not sell to the US either but to UK & Euroland. If you read my bio (which I still have) I backed up SR to the hilt. Greed was never a part of my business there. It paid the bills. Am I impressed by $50000/month vendors? No but good for them....that was their game, not mine. I like less stress & I bet mine was much less than their's esp. with the added problem of laundering all that cash & doing 20 to life in a Supermax. Not for me, thank you. But I did enjoy my little chats with my SR friends/buyers & for me that's what it was about. Feel where I am coming from yet?


PS. The 'gentleman' who can't read 'Spastic' - what a gentle soul you are to make such statements. To my American friends 'spastic' was a 70's UK insult. A 'spastic' is slang for someone with cerebral palsy but was used as a general insult from those with a lack of grey matter. Nice man. Hope you do not have children who will inherit your idiot ways.

[n t m]

You must be a troll.

No one is that stupid.

[Synergy]

Well some healthly skepticism and paranoia never hurt anyone, it is good to ask questions and challenge what you are not happy with. I do get the impression some of your anger towards SR might be misplaced but lets see what happens over the coming months, as things start to come together your feelings and attitudes might change, or not who knows.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing, a safe, secure and reliable service so if we are all pulling in that direction something good has gotta happen right? well I hope so anyway.

Apart from "I do get the impression some of your anger towards SR might be misplaced" you are turning out to be a good unbiased Mod Synergy. You did have that little mistake when you told a user to take their business elsewhere, but we all make mistakes & you said sorry so you have promise. Thanks!

Yes things might change. If anyone cares to read my earlier posts they would not know me as UKP2014 - that would be foolish. I did not sell to the US either but to UK & Euroland. If you read my bio (which I still have) I backed up SR to the hilt. Greed was never a part of my business there. It paid the bills. Am I impressed by $50000/month vendors? No but good for them....that was their game, not mine. I like less stress & I bet mine was much less than their's esp. with the added problem of laundering all that cash & doing 20 to life in a Supermax. Not for me, thank you. But I did enjoy my little chats with my SR friends/buyers & for me that's what it was about. Feel where I am coming from yet?


PS. The 'gentleman' who can't read 'Spastic' - what a gentle soul you are to make such statements. To my American friends 'spastic' was a 70's UK insult. A 'spastic' is slang for someone with cerebral palsy but was used as a general insult from those with a lack of grey matter. Nice man. Hope you do not have children who will inherit your idiot ways.

Yeah I think I was operating on about 5 hours sleep over 4 days when I cracked it at that buyer, with the site launch and everything else that was going on here their post really incensed me at the time, not the best look for mod hey

Sounds like you had a nice tidy little operation running, selling to regulars and turning enough sales to cover all your overheads and hopefully some play money too! there is no point taking all these risks if you aren't going to live a little along the way.

I hope you can come back to Silk Road and get it all back. For what it's worth I am very impressed with the way the new site has been put together and I don't mean functionality, that can come with time, the security is second to none. This gives me hope for the future because when SR1 went down I felt like I had lost one of the most important parts of my life and I don't mean the drugs either. It's this place, these forums and the people who reside here in cyber space.

The altruistic nature of this place blows my mind sometimes, I have witnessed and been on the receiving end of incredible acts of generosity and afforded a level of trust I wouldn't even extend to some of my close friends and all from people I will never even meet.

That is what the Feds and LEO do not get, we are not a ramshackle group of drug fiends, we are community of some of the most eclectic people I have ever met (figuratively).

You take our market and we build a new one, a better one. How can you not love that ingenuity and indefatigable determination to keep this going, makes me smile just thinking about it

 

[Nightcrawler]

^^^^ May I make a suggestion. Either do drugs or sell drugs but don't do both. Drug selling and drug using have no place together.

Nod is the poster child for that one, is he not?

Nightcrawler
4096R/BBF7433B 2012-09-22 Nightcrawler <Nightcrawler@SR>
PGP Key: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=174.msg633090#msg633090
PGP Key Fingerprint = D870 C6AC CC6E 46B0 E0C7  3955 B8F1 D88E BBF7 433B

Security is a bit like religion... some things have to be taken on faith.
Where security differs from religion is that security is NOT retroactive.
Unlike Christianity, where you can come to Jesus, be 'saved' and have all
your sins washed away, with security you can adopt Tails or PGP, and be
secure from that point forward, but rest assured that your previous sins
(security failings) WILL come back to haunt you and bite you in the ass.
The original DPR is the poster child for that, right now.

[ProEvo]

DUDE FUCKING GIVE IT UP! For days now you are bitching every single place you go about a fucking measly $200 bond that you ultimately get back! Then you threaten to go to BMR where they have a nonrefundable $500 fee. Just freakin stop already. Either cough up the miniscule amount of money or go elsewhere, damn. I paid DPR $200 for an account and 6 hours later Sarge verified my identity for a free account. I didn't even bother asking for the $200 back because it's not a big freakin deal.

Here here Doctor. It's only $200 at the end of the day. If you can't afford to pay it then you probably shouldn't be vending.

[MisterSister]

If I'm understanding UKP correctly though, he has no problem with paying $200, he has a problem with this bond causing buyers to prematurely trust vendors who could potentially scam said buyers.  I guess the thought is that a scammer could drop $200 and still scam buyers out of $1000s in a short amount of time, so what is the point of it?

I can actually see both sides of the coin, but I can say that eliminating the bond completely would be a bad choice.

[Sarge]

If I'm understanding UKP correctly though, he has no problem with paying $200, he has a problem with this bond causing buyers to prematurely trust vendors who could potentially scam said buyers.  I guess the thought is that a scammer could drop $200 and still scam buyers out of $1000s in a short amount of time, so what is the point of it?

I can actually see both sides of the coin, but I can say that eliminating the bond completely would be a bad choice.

I would think once the marketplace is re-established the bond should be put up to $600-$1000 to make it harder for scammers. I think I read that Sheeps vending price is $600ish and thats non-refundable...

[Fluffhead!]

^^^^ May I make a suggestion. Either do drugs or sell drugs but don't do both. Drug selling and drug using have no place together.

+1

[the g0dfather]

I agree with the $200 bond, this way at least you have some thing to lose if your just here to scam. the bond should go up if more people decide to try and scam. it may not solve all the problems but it keeps the low baller wanna be's as bay.

either way this is a business and if you wanna make money you gotta invest money. I for one will be up opening up shop in the next few days! hope to see you all buying my mushies

[DanDanTheIceCreamMan]

@UKP2014 What would your solution to this problem be?

We should not argue, we should come up with solutions.

If you don't like the bond fee what do you think would be a fair way to do it?

[border warrior]

The bond fee's fair and as for the reference to SR3 or SR4 nothing in this life is guaranteed unfortunately

[dangerdanger]

DUDE FUCKING GIVE IT UP! For days now you are bitching every single place you go about a fucking measly $200 bond that you ultimately get back! Then you threaten to go to BMR where they have a nonrefundable $500 fee. Just freakin stop already. Either cough up the miniscule amount of money or go elsewhere, damn. I paid DPR $200 for an account and 6 hours later Sarge verified my identity for a free account. I didn't even bother asking for the $200 back because it's not a big freakin deal.

Wow your such a fucking baller dude!!! Very ,very impressive. You mean to tell me you dont care about 200$, even 10 000$. Your soo rich man. Would you like me to start a thread for you thats called" dr.mda is fucking rich!!! No seriously he has soo much money. No i dont think you get it hes fucking loaded man"?

Give it a rest you wanker. Nobody like a fucking bragging ass nickle and dimer vender

[Loki]

If I'm understanding UKP correctly though, he has no problem with paying $200, he has a problem with this bond causing buyers to prematurely trust vendors who could potentially scam said buyers.  I guess the thought is that a scammer could drop $200 and still scam buyers out of $1000s in a short amount of time, so what is the point of it?

I can actually see both sides of the coin, but I can say that eliminating the bond completely would be a bad choice.

I would think once the marketplace is re-established the bond should be put up to $600-$1000 to make it harder for scammers. I think I read that Sheeps vending price is $600ish and thats non-refundable...

Yeah here goes with SR admins FUD campaign against the competition cause they cant possibly compete on merit alone. Hey staff since your so buddy buddy with your veteran SR vendors then just up the bond to $1,000,000 so they can monopolize the market, meanwhile the market will still be faithfully over at sheep.

[PerfectScans]

I am hearing a whole lot of blah blah from noobs like the OP....

Bond is logical, practical, needed and should be $1000 minimum once the market place is in full swing.

Why ? because generally dumb ass noobs like the OP cannot raise that kind of money, or are not willing to work hard to raise it and it at least offers barriers to entry for scumbags, scammers and dangerous noobs and regardless of any claimed vulcan logic ? It is unquestionably better than NO bond system...

Correct ? try that logic...

[MisterSister]

I am hearing a whole lot of blah blah from noobs like the OP....

Bond is logical, practical, needed and should be $1000 minimum once the market place is in full swing.

Why ? because generally dumb ass noobs like the OP cannot raise that kind of money, or are not willing to work hard to raise it and it at least offers barriers to entry for scumbags, scammers and dangerous noobs and regardless of any claimed vulcan logic ? It is unquestionably better than NO bond system...

Correct ? try that logic...

Same page, man.

[PerfectScans]

lol hallelujah !!!

[Tang]

Here is my $0.02 on the bond system, sure it doesn't stop long term scams but it does stop people signing up and making a vendor account listing up products they do not have and hope to get lucky that someone FE's and then repeat the process. Having the $200 bond does at least stop the flood of scam listings from coming up. The rest is up to the buyer to be smart, not to FE and make sure they stay in escrow.

[infinity]

a vendor that can't afford £200 bond is also a vendor that can't afford the adequate security to protect himself and his buyers IMO.

[Dr Robotnik]

without the bond we would be flooded with scammers setting up 10-20 scam accounts a piece!

[Synergy]

The bond is essential to deter opportunistic scammers, without it the market would be flooded with them.

I understand your logic but it doesn't hold up I'm afraid, the bond is an effective mechanism, plus it signifies a level of trust between the seller and the market as you are effectively saying you will follow the rules because if you don't you will forfeit it.

[DoctorClu]

A point that I am failing to see here is that scammers are only effective if a buyer goes along with it. So long as buyers do not FE unless they have some special relationship with the vendor, scamming becomes the exception to the rule.

A policy should not be put in place on the pretense that every new vendor is a potential scammer. There were exponentially more legit and trusted vendors on SR then there were scams. There is no reason to make it more difficult for new vendors to start up on the market so long as buyers take the proper precautions and the SR staff remain vigilant.

[Synergy]

A point that I am failing to see here is that scammers are only effective if a buyer goes along with it. So long as buyers do not FE unless they have some special relationship with the vendor, scamming becomes the exception to the rule.

A policy should not be put in place on the pretense that every new vendor is a potential scammer. There were exponentially more legit and trusted vendors on SR then there were scams. There is no reason to make it more difficult for new vendors to start up on the market so long as buyers take the proper precautions and the SR staff remain vigilant.

That's the issue though, lots of them do because even though the few thousand of us who frequent these forums know FE is risky many of thise buyers don't eve nknow these forums exist. The last SMF had something like 70,000 user registrations and you can probably knock off 20,000 of those as coachella shills but when you look at that in comparison to the market site with a million registers users and probably far fewer burner accounts it kind of puts things into perspective.

The bond is a hoop that needs to be jumped through and if fronting up a few hundred bucks is such an impediment to getting started I would question their suitability to do so in the first place. And remember it's a bond as well and you can get it back.

[DoctorClu]

A point that I am failing to see here is that scammers are only effective if a buyer goes along with it. So long as buyers do not FE unless they have some special relationship with the vendor, scamming becomes the exception to the rule.

A policy should not be put in place on the pretense that every new vendor is a potential scammer. There were exponentially more legit and trusted vendors on SR then there were scams. There is no reason to make it more difficult for new vendors to start up on the market so long as buyers take the proper precautions and the SR staff remain vigilant.

That's the issue though, lots of them do because even though the few thousand of us who frequent these forums know FE is risky many of thise buyers don't eve nknow these forums exist. The last SMF had something like 70,000 user registrations and you can probably knock off 20,000 of those as coachella shills but when you look at that in comparison to the market site with a million registers users and probably far fewer burner accounts it kind of puts things into perspective.

The bond is a hoop that needs to be jumped through and if fronting up a few hundred bucks is such an impediment to getting started I would question their suitability to do so in the first place. And remember it's a bond as well and you can get it back.

Oh I am not saying do away with the bond. That is absolutely required. I just don't see the point in raising it.

[Herby]

i think we should make the bond non refundable.. and all bonds go to non profits and disaster relief. lets make the world a better place.

[DrMDA]

The last SMF had something like 70,000 user registrations and you can probably knock off 20,000 of those as coachella shills

lol laughed my ass off

[sammyjankis]

i never thought of the bond as a down payment toward legitimizing myself on this or the old SR.  i always though of it as a fee to help pay for the resources i consumed until the time came (after i had generated X dollars in revenue) i wasn't not a burden to the system and was proven to DPR/SR as worth the supporting resources (like this board) i would inevitably consume.

this burden is traditionally funded by the vendors (since forever) and that continues on the black market.

what a fucking cheapskate.