NewDPR, dont be a greedy dick like OldDPR, fund Tor development.

[Milkdud]

As of 2012, 80% of the Tor Project's $2M annual budget comes from the United States government

According to the FBI Old DPR had about $36 million from 3 years of running the road, want to guess how much of that went to Tor developers?

Here's another question for you all, whens the last time the torproject updated hidden services?

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/december-2011-progress-report

Our progress report for December 2011 is available as a pdf with pretty graphs and text file. Highlights are on hidden services fixes, openssl fixes, obfuscating proxy progress, and general updates on advocacy and releases.

And what does Tor developer Roger Dingedine have to say about hidden service development?

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-need-some-love
(April 2013)

Hidden Services are in a peculiar situation. While they see a loyal fan-base, there are no dedicated Tor developers to take care of them. This results in a big pile of features that need to be researched, implemented and deployed to make Hidden Services more secure and effective.

That's correct, the Tor Project's US government funded operations have lacked the necessary funding to make even one update in the space of two years. The Tor project has stated they do not accept government funding because they want to, its because no one else will fund them. This is unacceptable, DPR must pay his dues if he wants this movement to survive.

[Yoda]

And what does Tor developer Roger Dingedine have to say about hidden service development?

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/hidden-services-need-some-love
(April 2013)

Hidden Services are in a peculiar situation. While they see a loyal fan-base, there are no dedicated Tor developers to take care of them. This results in a big pile of features that need to be researched, implemented and deployed to make Hidden Services more secure and effective.

That's correct, the Tor Project's US government funded operations have lacked the necessary funding to make even one update in the space of two years. The Tor project has stated they do not accept government funding because they want to, its because no one else will fund them. This is unacceptable, DPR must pay his dues if he wants this movement to survive.

Where in this quote does he state that money is the reason that there are no developers to take care of hidden services?

Perhaps the developers have moral objections?... perhaps they don't want to be helping us druggies, or the pedos.  Maybe he says money is the reason some place else?


Not to mention... what do you think would happen to Tor once the Feds found out they are being funded with laundered money from SR?

[bookittymew]

Yoda this man has a point, don't undermine it. He is entirely right.

Greed is what brought down Silk Road in the big picture. You can't expect people to work for free.

[baller69]

yea this is true.  TOR probably won't see much funding from the US govt' going forward.  we have to keep it alive.

[Ketatmine]

I always wondered if DPR did this secretly...I suspect not given all the money stored away.

DPR, please don't hoard so many coins. I imagine you won't personally be able to reap the benefits so please invest them into furthering the project. Donating to the truecrypt audit could be another idea.

You can always charge less commision if you find you can't spend them all.

[Yoda]

Yoda this man has a point, don't undermine it. He is entirely right.

Greed is what brought down Silk Road in the big picture. You can't expect people to work for free.

I don't expect people to work for free.  And yes, he has a point, but so do I.

A drug lord paying the salary of a nonprofit won't fly.  Nor would money coming from some genocidal dictator.   Tor would be no more I'd imagine.  Why doesn't the Torproject itself take bitcoin, yet directs bitcoin donors  to donate to affiliated organizations instead?
https://www.torproject.org/donate/donate

Greed is not what brought down SR imho... Ex-DPR made those errors even if he turned out to be penniless in the end.   And if what is written of his mistakes is true, he made the most crucial mistakes before he even had all that coin.  But if you really must blame greed for all that has gone wrong, you have to in-turn blame greed for all that has gone right.

New DPR put out a bounty about running relays, is this not charity towards the Tor network?  Do you guys still think him heartless?

Ultimately though... what new DPR does with his money is non of our business.   We are not the ones taking on the risk he is.  People should respect this fact. 

[bookittymew]

I don't think Ross was greedy actually, I'm saying greed in the bigger picture. That kid fucked up, but I think his heart was in the right place.

[whom]

I've watched dozens of lectures from Jacob Appelbaum and Roger Dingledine via Youtube.. I've taken the time to watch 3-hour Q&A sessions with them, I've read interviews with them. 

And aside from brief, "Hey, folks, hidden services need some love" style short comments, I've never heard them spend much time or energy on hidden services.

It's not part of their message.  I believe that's intentional on their part.  And I think that their aversion to bitcoin goes along with their efforts to stay focused on keeping the conversation on technology and Iranian dissidents.  By not devoting any actual Tor Project developers to hidden services, and not accepting bitcoin (and a bitcoin-funded grant for hidden services would follow shortly after they started accepting them, I'm sure), I think they try to straddle the fence.  Lecture about The Four Horsemen (drugs, CP, money laundering, terrorism) being distractions, and free speech being their focus. 

I totally agree with the OP's core point, but I'm guessing it's harder than it looks.  Bitcoin isn't the same as cash, and non-profits accepting money from Uncle Sam have a million reporting/audit requirements that I'd rather die than understand.   They have to balance their funding needs, and while Uncle Sam's funding may shrink in the future, it won't shrink as much as DPR's would have in early September.

The other issue is finding the right person to actually improve hidden services.. there are a finite number of individuals who really *get* the complexity of the issues involved.  But if someone who was flush with bitcoin and passionate about hidden services could find the right person, it's a no brainer.   

[X]

I've watched dozens of lectures from Jacob Appelbaum and Roger Dingledine via Youtube.. I've taken the time to watch 3-hour Q&A sessions with them, I've read interviews with them. 

And aside from brief, "Hey, folks, hidden services need some love" style short comments, I've never heard them spend much time or energy on hidden services.

It's not part of their message.  I believe that's intentional on their part.  And I think that their aversion to bitcoin goes along with their efforts to stay focused on keeping the conversation on technology and Iranian dissidents.  By not devoting any actual Tor Project developers to hidden services, and not accepting bitcoin (and a bitcoin-funded grant for hidden services would follow shortly after they started accepting them, I'm sure), I think they try to straddle the fence.  Lecture about The Four Horsemen (drugs, CP, money laundering, terrorism) being distractions, and free speech being their focus. 

I totally agree with the OP's core point, but I'm guessing it's harder than it looks.  Bitcoin isn't the same as cash, and non-profits accepting money from Uncle Sam have a million reporting/audit requirements that I'd rather die than understand.   They have to balance their funding needs, and while Uncle Sam's funding may shrink in the future, it won't shrink as much as DPR's would have in early September.

The other issue is finding the right person to actually improve hidden services.. there are a finite number of individuals who really *get* the complexity of the issues involved.  But if someone who was flush with bitcoin and passionate about hidden services could find the right person, it's a no brainer.

Whom I think is honing in on a finely balanced point here. I see the merits of both sides--don't want to compromise TOR by helping it, and also don't want to assume the TOR party will last forever and take it for granted. There has to be a middle ground, and not just for DPR's funds to assist in the substrate for our movement here--even a few bit cents here and there from small timers add up--in a community of savvy dealers and launderers surely we could explore a mechanism by which the community could assist the TOR project in a rather obfuscated way. Yoda is correct, bald donations are a terrible idea, but hey--those of us successful here aren't exactly guileless...

[ModernLove]

So, DPR didn't donate any of his 10% of SR sales to the Tor Project, but apparently none of us donated any of the other 90% either.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I agree with the point on hand, I should give a part of the proceeds of Silk Road to the development of the network but I would like to ask you understand the nature of donations. Just as in politics, an organization which attracts controversy must be careful who it accepts donations from so it is not seen as having an interest in particular groups donating to them. So for example, if Tor Project were to accept donations from Silk Road I have no doubt that they would be scrutinized and it would not be long before the media create another sensationalist headline stating Tor Project is supported by child pornographers and drug dealers.

Tor Project does not accept bitcoin donations for this reason - so they cannot be seen as linked to illegal organizations such as this and this makes donating to them more difficult if done on a larger scale. I would also highlight Tor Project would be better suited to smaller individual donations by many people, one larger funding source like the US Govt risks their future as they understand that funding can be cut at any time whereas streams of smaller donations are usually more stable.

I do have plans to help the Tor network, the staff and I did not plan on releasing this early but in a few days I will actually be posting on this very issue of how to help the network overall and increase the security of users from what is to be our biggest threat for the next 2-3 years.

[bookittymew]

Would it be ok to make some sort of anonymous BTC to PayPal tumbler to Tor with a donation button on the Silk Road's pages? It would be fucking hilarious if we pulled something like that off. And generous.

[pimpit]

Would it be ok to make some sort of anonymous BTC to PayPal tumbler to Tor with a donation button on the Silk Road's pages? It would be fucking hilarious if we pulled something like that off. And generous.

Read DPR's post again, meditate and read it again and again until it sinks in.

DPR please let us know what we can do to help network security and please for the sake of TOR donate but dont tell us, as all of us are doing and will be doing...

[Ketatmine]

You're a good man DPR!

[ProEvo]

Be very interesting to hear what the update on donations is.

[Milkdud]

I agree with the point on hand, I should give a part of the proceeds of Silk Road to the development of the network but I would like to ask you understand the nature of donations. Just as in politics, an organization which attracts controversy must be careful who it accepts donations from so it is not seen as having an interest in particular groups donating to them. So for example, if Tor Project were to accept donations from Silk Road I have no doubt that they would be scrutinized and it would not be long before the media create another sensationalist headline stating Tor Project is supported by child pornographers and drug dealers.

Tor Project does not accept bitcoin donations for this reason - so they cannot be seen as linked to illegal organizations such as this and this makes donating to them more difficult if done on a larger scale. I would also highlight Tor Project would be better suited to smaller individual donations by many people, one larger funding source like the US Govt risks their future as they understand that funding can be cut at any time whereas streams of smaller donations are usually more stable.

I do have plans to help the Tor network, the staff and I did not plan on releasing this early but in a few days I will actually be posting on this very issue of how to help the network overall and increase the security of users from what is to be our biggest threat for the next 2-3 years.

Well i wasnt suggesting you as DPR donate, i figured you could donate anonymously, though if they dont accept bitcoin that would become problematic. However dont forget that not all Tor developers are necessarily part of Tor project, or at least you could donate to developers who show interest in working on them, such as George Kadianakis, Nick Mathewson, and Christopher Baines. If you anonymously offered them a bounty to develop hidden services, payable in bitcoin, then you could get around the whole "roger dingledines official upright citizens brigade" nonsense. Looking forward to your announcement.

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-weekly-news-%E2%80%94-october-16th-2013
https://blog.torproject.org/blog/tor-weekly-news-%E2%80%94-october-23rd-2013

[Anyone]

When you earn 36 million dollars illegally you can donate a load to tor. 

[X]

Would it be ok to make some sort of anonymous BTC to PayPal tumbler to Tor with a donation button on the Silk Road's pages? It would be fucking hilarious if we pulled something like that off. And generous.

The reverse of this has been the Holy Grail of carders for a long time, AFAIK it hasn't happened yet.

[TheMadHatter]

Just to notify you all if you haven't already read DPRs post "Needle in a Haystack" (link: http://silkroad5v7dywlc.onion/index.php?topic=1570.0)

DPR is encouraging people to start up their own tor relay nodes to strengthen the network, and reduce the risk of a network analysis to locate the hidden service (yes, with enough money/equipment/knowledge, it is possible for LE to locate hidden services). As of now it is speculated that LE owns and runs around 10% of the relay/exit nodes (please don't hang me up on this info, but you get the idea). Furthermore, DPR hired a tor relay/exit node operator to start, run and operate tor relays and exit nodes funded by Silk Road. (link: http://silkroad5v7dywlc.onion/index.php?topic=924.0)

In my opinion this is the best way DPR can strengthen the network and reduce risk of traffic analysis without donating money to the Tor Project, which seems more or less impossible when the Tor Project don't accept bitcoins.

TheMadHatter

[Cornelius23]

So, DPR didn't donate any of his 10% of SR sales to the Tor Project, but apparently none of us donated any of the other 90% either.

+1

[dingwall_3]

Yoda this man has a point, don't undermine it. He is entirely right.

Greed is what brought down Silk Road in the big picture. You can't expect people to work for free.

I don't expect people to work for free.  And yes, he has a point, but so do I.

A drug lord paying the salary of a nonprofit won't fly.  Nor would money coming from some genocidal dictator.   Tor would be no more I'd imagine.  Why doesn't the Torproject itself take bitcoin, yet directs bitcoin donors  to donate to affiliated organizations instead?
https://www.torproject.org/donate/donate

Greed is not what brought down SR imho... Ex-DPR made those errors even if he turned out to be penniless in the end.   And if what is written of his mistakes is true, he made the most crucial mistakes before he even had all that coin.  But if you really must blame greed for all that has gone wrong, you have to in-turn blame greed for all that has gone right.

New DPR put out a bounty about running relays, is this not charity towards the Tor network?  Do you guys still think him heartless?

Ultimately though... what new DPR does with his money is non of our business.   We are not the ones taking on the risk he is.  People should respect this fact.

Greed never brought down sr1,
but it certainly brought down sr2 ...
just a small matter of me saying your a cop  ..    mister yoda...   iv thought this for quite a while,
please correct me if im wrong .

[vince]

https://www.torproject.org/donate/donate.html.en

You donate.