Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 04:12 pm

Title: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 04:12 pm
Not sure where to begin here...

First off, if you haven't read the Ratings & Reviews wiki page, do so now.  I don't want to see people commenting in this thread if you haven't read that.  (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Ratings_%26_Reviews)

There were a few changes over the last 24 hours and if you just read through the commentary on the forum, you'll probably be confused.  Here is where we stand at the moment:

All past ratings and reviews have been imported into the new layout.  However, reviews from before the update do not display the user's alias or their buyer stats, so no new information is being displayed that wasn't before.  Reviews that are left from now on will have buyer stats displayed next to them.

Also, for a short time, viewing your past feedback was removed.  It is now back with extra info under a "recent orders" link on your account page.  Reviews have been removed from item pages temporarily and will be returned in the new format.

I'll address some common complaints:

The new format reveals too much info.
The old format revealed too little, allowing fake reviews to go unnoticed.  We've given you the option to review and discuss under an alias and we'll look into further obscuring the information revealed in reviews/discussions, but for now if you don't want that info shown, just don't leave a review.

I liked how I could see every rating and every review for a vendor.
So did LE.  This has been a problem since the beginning, allowing LE to know EXACT sales volume and quantity on every vendor on SR.  Correcting this was the primary motivation for overhauling the review system.

The new layout is too complicated.
We've added new information, yes, but it is up to you whether you want to pay attention to it.  All vendors are still given a single average rating if that's all you want to look at.  You can still sort by freshness and look at the most recent 10 reviews.  If you don't like seeing the rating broken down by 1 - 5 or you don't like the new review page, or you don't like seeing the transaction and buyer stats, then ignore that stuff and just look at what you've always had access to.

I don't like it, let's just go back to the old way.
No.  Not until we've given this a chance.  No one likes change, but there were serious problems with the old way of doing things even if you never noticed them, and we have to try to find a better way.  I'm not willing to settle for a system that is easily gamed by scammers and gives LE complete sales data on every vendor on the site.

I don't like how ratings/reviews are permanent.
I'm still open to discussing a better way, but the more I think about it the more it seems like it is only an issue if you are asking customers to finalize early.  If they have a problem, they take it to the resolution center where you work all of that out.  The only problem I see with permanent ratings is with vendors not using the system as it was designed and asking customers to do things that put their money at risk.  Am I missing something?


I'd like to acknowledge that this hasn't gone as smoothly as it could have.  I am sorry for this and will do my best to learn from this experience and do better in the future.  I just ask that everyone be patient, try not to get so emotional and remember to have fun.  I'm doing my best to hear everyone's concerns and design things to accommodate them.  If you are going to criticize, please do so constructively by offering a solution.  This is a process.  We are in the middle of it, and I promise that where we end up will be better than where we started and certainly not worse.

This is the last I am going to say on the matter for a few days, and unless there are any major problems that I hadn't noticed before, there won't be any new changes until then.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NorthernStar on August 26, 2013, 04:13 pm
Nice one DPR.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: AussieDomesticDrugs on August 26, 2013, 04:19 pm
I love the new system, the more information buyers have the better, but at the same time it's good that our total sales volume is now obscured from LE, making it harder for them to deduce the scope of our dealings in any possible legal action.

I can't wait for the new updates where you will add more options to protect against scamming buyers. Please allow vendors to rate buyers, this would cut down on so much scamming and also give a chance for really good buyers to be rewarded with a reputation that would make their future transactions with other vendors easier. Not only that, it would give the staff in resolution center more information to work with as they could more carefully review a buyers history as a customer!

Keep up the good work DPR, we really appreciate what you are doing :)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 04:33 pm
 No you're not missing nothing, these vendors shouldn't be asking people to do things with their money that are dodgy. The only people who have a problem with this is vendors who want buyers to  F/E, so you're either a scammer or out of order. as you shouldn't be asking for F/E. Nobody else sees a problem, if you're playing with straight dice, then you don't have to worry. Love it DPR.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: HEATFan on August 26, 2013, 04:34 pm
One thing I've noticed is that vendors who made private/stealth listings for their clients are having those reviews show up for everyone to see. So for example, on a certain vendor's page I can see "private 4 [name]" and the dollar amount that they spent on it. I was under the impression that these types of reviews didn't typically show on the vendor's page for everyone to see but still went towards their total feedback. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Also, if you need the specific vendor's name you'll have to PM me.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: missbliss on August 26, 2013, 04:35 pm
I'll address some common complaints:

The new format reveals too much info.
The old format revealed too little, allowing fake reviews to go unnoticed.  We've given you the option to review and discuss under an alias and we'll look into further obscuring the information revealed in reviews/discussions, but for now if you don't want that info shown, just don't leave a review.

I liked how I could see every rating and every review for a vendor.
So did LE.  This has been a problem since the beginning, allowing LE to know EXACT sales volume and quantity on every vendor on SR.  Correcting this was the primary motivation for overhauling the review system.


hi hi

is this a joke?
are you joking here?  because with your new update the exact dollar amount - to the fucking penny - of ever sale, for ALL VENDORS is now publicly visible.
seriously. is this a joke? wtf?

i've gone stealth mode until this gets sorted out, as that is the only way to make the information hidden.

good job.
xoxo
-mb
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: guacamolly on August 26, 2013, 04:35 pm
For anything to run efficiently over the long haul there has to be constant change, life is all about adapting. I am fairly new to this site still, but I have to say the changes look pretty clean to me so far. There are always bugs at the beginning of any overhaul, but in time I think they will get worked out and SR will be all the better for it.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 04:39 pm
I'll address some common complaints:

The new format reveals too much info.
The old format revealed too little, allowing fake reviews to go unnoticed.  We've given you the option to review and discuss under an alias and we'll look into further obscuring the information revealed in reviews/discussions, but for now if you don't want that info shown, just don't leave a review.

I liked how I could see every rating and every review for a vendor.
So did LE.  This has been a problem since the beginning, allowing LE to know EXACT sales volume and quantity on every vendor on SR.  Correcting this was the primary motivation for overhauling the review system.


hi hi

is this a joke?
are you joking here?  because with your new update the exact dollar amount - to the fucking penny - of ever sale, for ALL VENDORS is now publicly visible.
seriously. is this a joke? wtf?

i've gone stealth mode until this gets sorted out, as that is the only way to make the information hidden.

good job.
xoxo
-mb
Ha Ha love it, transparency is the way. Why so worried? Only to other vendors what are you on about?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: XXXotica on August 26, 2013, 04:41 pm
No you're not missing nothing, these vendors shouldn't be asking people to do things with their money that are dodgy. The only people who have a problem with this is vendors who want buyers to  F/E, so you're either a scammer or out of order. as you shouldn't be asking for F/E. Nobody else sees a problem, if you're playing with straight dice, then you don't have to worry. Love it DPR.

Not too sure about that sentiment. I personally dislike majority of the new features due to the redundancy and confusion. That and the fact this all seems like we're trying to compete with the other blackmarket.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: HEATFan on August 26, 2013, 04:42 pm
I'll address some common complaints:

The new format reveals too much info.
The old format revealed too little, allowing fake reviews to go unnoticed.  We've given you the option to review and discuss under an alias and we'll look into further obscuring the information revealed in reviews/discussions, but for now if you don't want that info shown, just don't leave a review.

I liked how I could see every rating and every review for a vendor.
So did LE.  This has been a problem since the beginning, allowing LE to know EXACT sales volume and quantity on every vendor on SR.  Correcting this was the primary motivation for overhauling the review system.


hi hi

is this a joke?
are you joking here?  because with your new update the exact dollar amount - to the fucking penny - of ever sale, for ALL VENDORS is now publicly visible.
seriously. is this a joke? wtf?

i've gone stealth mode until this gets sorted out, as that is the only way to make the information hidden.

good job.
xoxo
-mb

Was wondering about this too. It looks like every sale ever made in the past 4-5 months is currently showing along with the dollar amounts, whether the listing was private/stealth or not. I might be wrong about this but at first glance that is what I am seeing. Some vendors go back as far as 5 months 15 days and others I can only see as far back as 4 months 18 days.

But not every sale ever is showing, unless perhaps you haven't been around very long and your history only goes back 4-5 months.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 04:45 pm
No you're not missing nothing, these vendors shouldn't be asking people to do things with their money that are dodgy. The only people who have a problem with this is vendors who want buyers to  F/E, so you're either a scammer or out of order. as you shouldn't be asking for F/E. Nobody else sees a problem, if you're playing with straight dice, then you don't have to worry. Love it DPR.

Not too sure about that sentiment. I personally dislike majority of the new features due to the redundancy and confusion. That and the fact this all seems like we're trying to compete with the other blackmarket.
It will be fine, just read DPR's post. You can ignore the new features if you want. It's for the greater good of the community, surely that should be our primary goal.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: CaptainSnowFlakes on August 26, 2013, 04:46 pm
For anything to run efficiently over the long haul there has to be constant change, life is all about adapting. I am fairly new to this site still, but I have to say the changes look pretty clean to me so far. There are always bugs at the beginning of any overhaul, but in time I think they will get worked out and SR will be all the better for it.

You do not understand. On Sunday updates rolled out that showed the exact listing name and link to it as well as how long ago the customer finalized. Not only were these two things shown to everyone who ever could want to look at it, but, it also showed the exact dollar amount.

This allowed LE to determine exactly how much a vendor has made, they can now link any intercepted packages to bitcoin transactions as well as link the buyer and the seller to it. Not once were these updates mentioned to us vendors. Nor was any vendor aware that this information went public if they did not log in on sunday. It is vendors like me that are letting everyone know what actually happened. I love this place, but, someone has the responsibility over my security as well as my buyers. That person screwed up OUR security. Please do not make a major change like this, even if you change it back without at least notifying every vendor and buyer what actually happened and not just pretend like it didn't happen at all.

Sorry DPR, this was not right. And there is no repercussions for you. Only us.

Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: DaFuck on August 26, 2013, 04:49 pm
How about this complaint: You censored me for having a honest discussion, now i cant discuss anything for 100days! You've shat on everything the real DPR did you fucking shill.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: guacamolly on August 26, 2013, 04:51 pm
Oh I agree that was probably a little too much information, and I can understand it making people extremely uncomfortable. That was definitely a bug, and fortunately SR admin listened to the criticism and corrected the issue.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 04:54 pm
How about this complaint: You censored me for having a honest discussion, now i cant discuss anything for 100days! You've shat on everything the real DPR did you fucking shill.
A shill? you call one of the greatest revolutionary minds of our time  a shill, right banned for another 100 days.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: farmer1 on August 26, 2013, 04:56 pm
You do not understand. On Sunday updates rolled out that showed the exact listing name and link to it as well as how long ago the customer finalized. Not only were these two things shown to everyone who ever could want to look at it, but, it also showed the exact dollar amount.


Trying to understand your complaint....


Wasn't this information already available in the old system? It already showed the product (with a link) and how long ago the feedback was left.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: CaptainSnowFlakes on August 26, 2013, 05:19 pm
That is fine, but, they also included the exact dollar amount for the order as well. LE basically knows now how much any vendor has sold according to their feedback till whenever the cut off is. Not including the fact that it made it that much easier to connect the dots on the block chain and link vendor and buyer. Wallet addresses and what not. It is just too much info that was basically covered up like nothing ever happened.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: happyhippy on August 26, 2013, 05:35 pm
It took me a while to get my head around the update but on the whole I think they give a better overview for the buyer
Title: Once you leave a rating, you will not be able to change it!
Post by: maligan on August 26, 2013, 05:49 pm
  " Once you leave a rating, you will not be able to change it! "

I had at least 3 wasted person who could not find the product in the envelope and gave me 1/5 and called me a scam artist. Once they got sorted out and find the goods ( a day or two later) apologized and changed the 1/5 to 5/5 ..... 

From now on its impossible
I feel helpless from this point ..

Please sort me out :)

Thank you
Title: Re: Once you leave a rating, you will not be able to change it!
Post by: farmer1 on August 26, 2013, 06:02 pm
  " Once you leave a rating, you will not be able to change it! "

I had at least 3 wasted person who could not find the product in the envelope and gave me 1/5 and called me a scam artist. Once they got sorted out and find the goods ( a day or two later) apologized and changed the 1/5 to 5/5 ..... 

From now on its impossible
I feel helpless from this point ..

Please sort me out :)

Thank you

DPR stated that he may change the feedback option so it can be increased later, but not decreased.

I doubt we are in final form yet. Fear not - if it is a good idea and important enough then DPR will likely make it happen. He is looking to add to the vendor features next.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: maligan on August 26, 2013, 06:35 pm
Yep! I sure hope its not final.....Not being able to change a feedback is not a good idea. Mistakes do happen all the time. Buyers and vendors deserve a second chance as far as feedback is concerned :)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: inthelight_youwillfind on August 26, 2013, 06:39 pm
You do not understand. On Sunday updates rolled out that showed the exact listing name and link to it as well as how long ago the customer finalized. Not only were these two things shown to everyone who ever could want to look at it, but, it also showed the exact dollar amount.


Trying to understand your complaint....


Wasn't this information already available in the old system? It already showed the product (with a link) and how long ago the feedback was left.

yeah, it was. when you hovered over "item" next to the reviews on vendors' main page and item info was shown so wasn't difficult to figure out prices.
i'm not good with change sometimes but will keep an open mind.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: CaptainSnowFlakes on August 26, 2013, 06:45 pm
You do not understand. On Sunday updates rolled out that showed the exact listing name and link to it as well as how long ago the customer finalized. Not only were these two things shown to everyone who ever could want to look at it, but, it also showed the exact dollar amount.


Trying to understand your complaint....


Wasn't this information already available in the old system? It already showed the product (with a link) and how long ago the feedback was left.

yeah, it was. when you hovered over "item" next to the reviews on vendors' main page and item info was shown so wasn't difficult to figure out prices.
i'm not good with change sometimes but will keep an open mind.

Right now if you looked at my listings you will not even find them from my feedbacks from a month ago. They aren't listed anymore and I am sure many vendors are the same way. It makes it much easier for LE to just go through every feedback and add totals together whenever they want to when they couldn't before.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 06:50 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: livestr0ng on August 26, 2013, 07:21 pm
Here is where we stand at the moment: [...]

Reviews have been removed from item pages temporarily and will be returned in the new format.

[..]

This is the last I am going to say on the matter for a few days, and unless there are any major problems that I hadn't noticed before, there won't be any new changes until then.
So this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: livestr0ng on August 26, 2013, 07:27 pm

The new format reveals too much info.
The old format revealed too little, allowing fake reviews to go unnoticed.

[...]

The new layout is too complicated.
We've added new information, yes, but it is up to you whether you want to pay attention to it. 


This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.
So uh... what?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: happyhippy on August 26, 2013, 07:30 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

Without wishing to appear to be kissing the bosses arse , the changes have my vote
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 07:32 pm
I love the new system, the more information buyers have the better, but at the same time it's good that our total sales volume is now obscured from LE, making it harder for them to deduce the scope of our dealings in any possible legal action.

I can't wait for the new updates where you will add more options to protect against scamming buyers. Please allow vendors to rate buyers, this would cut down on so much scamming and also give a chance for really good buyers to be rewarded with a reputation that would make their future transactions with other vendors easier. Not only that, it would give the staff in resolution center more information to work with as they could more carefully review a buyers history as a customer!

Keep up the good work DPR, we really appreciate what you are doing :)

IMO buyers have less information now that the review button is tucked away on the vendor page and buyers have to click through to it in order to write a feedback or review which was previously just grouped with the 1-5 rating after finalizing.  To me it discourages the feedback/review write ups and while that may help vendors in terms of protecting the size of their business it doesn't help buyers make informed decisions about who to do business with.  Buyers are already under enough pressure to rate vendors 5/5 even if not 100% satisfied because first and foremost the vendor has the buyers address at that point.  And then on top of that a lot of vendors state anything less than 5/5 will result in black listing or banning from future purchases.  So what good is the 1-5 rating system anyways if buyers are going to be strong armed into rating a 5/5?  I don't see a need for vendors to rate buyers.  Buyers have much less to do than vendors.  We place the orders and send encrypted address information and then wait until product comes and then finalize.  That's it.  So what exactly would you be reviewing the buyers for?  It would probably just come down to finalizing.  That's what the vendors are in it for is the money.  So buyer reviews would say maybe something like  "Buyer finalizes on time." "Buyer went to resolution tread lightly."  Is it really necessary?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NorcoCo on August 26, 2013, 07:46 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

With all respect, I don't understand how you think there is no new information being displayed.

The quantity of each order was not displayed before. That can be the difference between a $10 order and $2000 order of the same product.

Furthermore, buyer stats were not displayed before. Buyers lose their privacy too.

It is now very easy to identify the largest buyers making them prime targets for investigation. Now the whole world knows who those guys are that are doing $150k every couple months, exactly who they are buying from, and what products they are buying.

I just don't understand why all this information needs to be so public. If you guys want to adjust feedback ranking to consider these variables - that's fine. But you don't have to publish it all so blatantly.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 07:47 pm
And finally while I've mentioned this is a few other threads I'll just say it once more and hope the change is implemented.  IMO the update is great except for one change and that is to encourage people to write up feedbacks and reviews of vendors.  Is there a way to make the "review" button on the vendor page really big so people don't miss it?  Better yet can we move the review back to the same page where you leave the 1-5 rating?  I'm not scratching my head as to why this got moved.  I know why this got moved and it's because it protects the vendors in that everyone now will probably not leave a review or feedback and therefore LE can't go back and hover over every item and see how much business a vendor is doing.  As DPR said this was his main objective, but IMO it comes at a cost to buyers.  And that cost is overall safety and security.  A buyer now has less information, not more, to go off of.  So I don't think it's accurate to say that the information that is there now is the same information that was there before.  The "discuss" button has hardly been used in the past week and in the future we'll see less reviews and write ups because now the "review" button is in the exact same spot.  Please move it back or resize it or something and start encouraging reviews to be written. 
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 08:14 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

With all respect, I don't understand how you think there is no new information being displayed.

The quantity of each order was not displayed before. That can be the difference between a $10 order and $2000 order of the same product.

Furthermore, buyer stats were not displayed before. Buyers lose their privacy too.

It is now very easy to identify the largest buyers making them prime targets for investigation. Now the whole world knows who those guys are that are doing $150k every couple months, exactly who they are buying from, and what products they are buying.

I just don't understand why all this information needs to be so public. If you guys want to adjust feedback ranking to consider these variables - that's fine. But you don't have to publish it all so blatantly.

that is true about the quantity.  How is it easy to ID buyers?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: RxKing on August 26, 2013, 08:26 pm
Buyers stats are showed...not their names... it is not easy to target the buyers because of this...what it does show....is that the buyers are in fact legit!

People need to relax and look over the whole system viewing another vendor  page and not their own if they are a vendor.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: GUS on August 26, 2013, 08:29 pm
buyer stats are now hidden ;(

thats a shame. I liked being able to tell if vendors were padding their stats.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Cork1Screw on August 26, 2013, 08:37 pm
I see a lot of good changes, and I haven't had time to fully evaluate the whole system yet so I will refrain from a long post on this one. I think DPRs going in the right direction, and I certainly look forward to the vendor-related changes.


However, my first initial problem came today when I put myself into the mindset of a new buyer.

If I stumbled across one of Cork1Screw's listings in the Prerolled category, the picture and description may interest me. However I scroll to the bottom of the page and no reviews are displayed. Okay, so then I click through to the vendor's profile. I read some more, and it seems like everything is in order. Then I get to the reviews...now I start reading. By default, the reviews I'm seeing are all higher quantity weed reviews (due to the nature of this weighting system)...no mention of any measly low-dollar Prerolled joints anywhere. As a buyer, I'm a bit confused at this point. I just want to know if this guy rolls joints as well as he claims he does.

So at this point, as a buyer unless I then go to the additional step of assuming that this guy even has any reviews for his joints,  I then need to "Click here for more" and then change the sort option to freshness, and then scroll down and look through all Cork1Screw's recent reviews manually until I find the ones for his last chronologically added listings (Prerolled joints) and see that people do indeed like the joints. Seems like a very convoluted and confusing process just to see if I roll joints well.

If my story was a bit confusing, I will reiterate: as a vendor of multiple products, my "high dollar value" products are going to dominate my feedback and make feedback for my other products very hard, if not near impossible, to locate.

I do not know what the best solution to this is, but I know it needs something. My suggestion would be to look into some way of displaying a feedback average, reviews, bar graph, or some combination thereof on each individual listing. Security concerns in mind of course. I'm not against the idea of giving vendors the complete control to display or not display individually on the listings at their discretion.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Vanquish on August 26, 2013, 08:38 pm
I loved the initial changes with the 5.0 vendor scale and how clean the webpage looked.
To be quite honest the new changes are not only disorienting but they are visually unappealing as well.
Plus they seem to be a major inconvenience and possible danger for us buyers.
Does anyone else feel the same way?

Vanquish
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NorcoCo on August 26, 2013, 08:39 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

With all respect, I don't understand how you think there is no new information being displayed.

The quantity of each order was not displayed before. That can be the difference between a $10 order and $2000 order of the same product.

Furthermore, buyer stats were not displayed before. Buyers lose their privacy too.

It is now very easy to identify the largest buyers making them prime targets for investigation. Now the whole world knows who those guys are that are doing $150k every couple months, exactly who they are buying from, and what products they are buying.

I just don't understand why all this information needs to be so public. If you guys want to adjust feedback ranking to consider these variables - that's fine. But you don't have to publish it all so blatantly.

that is true about the quantity.  How is it easy to ID buyers?

My apologies, you are right buyers are still protected by the hidden alias. The privacy loss is targeted at the vendors only. Could you please consider hiding the exact order price? At least add in price weight brackets. Each order can show "0-10 BTC", "over 100 BTC", etc.

Other sites do this, and I feel that given SR's high-profile status it makes sense to be more careful and conservative rather than less.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: WhiteShark on August 26, 2013, 08:47 pm
I see a lot of good changes, and I haven't had time to fully evaluate the whole system yet so I will refrain from a long post on this one. I think DPRs going in the right direction, and I certainly look forward to the vendor-related changes.


However, my first initial problem came today when I put myself into the mindset of a new buyer.

If I stumbled across one of Cork1Screw's listings in the Prerolled category, the picture and description may interest me. However I scroll to the bottom of the page and no reviews are displayed. Okay, so then I click through to the vendor's profile. I read some more, and it seems like everything is in order. Then I get to the reviews...now I start reading. By default, the reviews I'm seeing are all higher quantity weed reviews (due to the nature of this weighting system)...no mention of any measly low-dollar Prerolled joints anywhere. As a buyer, I'm a bit confused at this point. I just want to know if this guy rolls joints as well as he claims he does.

So at this point, as a buyer unless I then go to the additional step of assuming that this guy even has any reviews for his joints,  I then need to "Click here for more" and then change the sort option to freshness, and then scroll down and look through all Cork1Screw's recent reviews manually until I find the ones for his last chronologically added listings (Prerolled joints) and see that people do indeed like the joints. Seems like a very convoluted and confusing process just to see if I roll joints well.

If my story was a bit confusing, I will reiterate: as a vendor of multiple products, my "high dollar value" products are going to dominate my feedback and make feedback for my other products very hard, if not near impossible, to locate.

I do not know what the best solution to this is, but I know it needs something. My suggestion would be to look into some way of displaying a feedback average, reviews, bar graph, or some combination thereof on each individual listing. Security concerns in mind of course. I'm not against the idea of giving vendors the complete control to display or not display individually on the listings at their discretion.

This is also something I think that needs to be addressed,
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: shinzon76 on August 26, 2013, 09:16 pm
The only change I take issue with is to inability to edit previous feedback. I can see how this would discourage vendors from asking buyers to FE, and I think a good compromise point is to allow the text to be edited, but only allow the numerical rating to increase. This keeps the discouragement against FE, as a buyer would now be more likely to just leave a 1/5 until the package is received, since they can't go back the other way in the event of an issue with the transaction.

The best change, in my opinion, is disallowing vendors from seeing who left what feedback if the buyer used an alias. This means a buyer can be honest without fear of reprisal by a jilted vendor that still has the buyers address. This, however, presents the issue that a vendor can no longer message that buyer to try and smooth things. The solution to that seems to be to give the vendor a link to send a message to the alias, without revealing who the buyer's main username actually was.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: pharmacypowder on August 26, 2013, 09:17 pm
I personally LOVE the new rating system....It is amazing. Buyers can now see how many 1/5's you have gotten in 2 seconds instead of just scrolling through pages of feedback. The new system is great for buyers with the weighed and freshness option as well and there really is not that much more info being displayed to LE. I really do not mind them at all and think they are great...
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 09:22 pm
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

With all respect, I don't understand how you think there is no new information being displayed.

The quantity of each order was not displayed before. That can be the difference between a $10 order and $2000 order of the same product.

Furthermore, buyer stats were not displayed before. Buyers lose their privacy too.

It is now very easy to identify the largest buyers making them prime targets for investigation. Now the whole world knows who those guys are that are doing $150k every couple months, exactly who they are buying from, and what products they are buying.

I just don't understand why all this information needs to be so public. If you guys want to adjust feedback ranking to consider these variables - that's fine. But you don't have to publish it all so blatantly.

that is true about the quantity.  How is it easy to ID buyers?

My apologies, you are right buyers are still protected by the hidden alias. The privacy loss is targeted at the vendors only. Could you please consider hiding the exact order price? At least add in price weight brackets. Each order can show "0-10 BTC", "over 100 BTC", etc.

Other sites do this, and I feel that given SR's high-profile status it makes sense to be more careful and conservative rather than less.

ok, I'll hide the quantity/price on pre-update reviews in the next hour or so.  going forward, this info will be more obscure than previously even with the quantity and price displayed because of reasons previously stated.

regarding sorting issues, I have changed the default to sort by freshness instead of weight.

ok THAT is the last word for a few days :P
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: CaptainSnowFlakes on August 27, 2013, 01:09 am
Thank you DPR!
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NW Nugz on August 27, 2013, 01:57 am
The new layout is too complicated.
We've added new information, yes, but it is up to you whether you want to pay attention to it.  All vendors are still given a single average rating if that's all you want to look at.  You can still sort by freshness and look at the most recent 10 reviews.  If you don't like seeing the rating broken down by 1 - 5 or you don't like the new review page, or you don't like seeing the transaction and buyer stats, then ignore that stuff and just look at what you've always had access to.
Previously, I had convenient access to the most recent feedback. Now, I have to go to a link and then resort and go to at least 4 more pages after that to see the most recent feedback.
I think making fresh feedback the default on the vendor page is appropriate.
I also want the sort button on the vendor page (even if it takes you to another page).
Breaking feedback into 5 sub-categories makes it very time-consuming to use. Many new users may fail to realize there is any negative recent feedback with this sort not necessarily showing the most fresh feedback. I think the Sub-categories need to be a sort option you can choose, not the default. I hope all the sort option buttons will be on the vendor's page.


I don't like how ratings/reviews are permanent.
I'm still open to discussing a better way, but the more I think about it the more it seems like it is only an issue if you are asking customers to finalize early.  If they have a problem, they take it to the resolution center where you work all of that out.  The only problem I see with permanent ratings is with vendors not using the system as it was designed and asking customers to do things that put their money at risk.  Am I missing something?
People make mistakes. They also can realize a miscommunication after an initial reaction to a perceived situation they later realize was not factual. That is just a couple of examples that pop to mind. Also, a less than 5/5 rating often generates vendor action that allows the buyer to be made happy enough to change it to 5/5. I agree that it should not be like that. Buyers deserve 5/5 service without needing to use the feedback system to get action from a vendor. I do think taking away the ability to raise a feedback rating will be more harmful than the quote above suggests you expect. I don't know if letting it be changed upward by buyers, but not downward is an option? That might solve all my initial concerns. Another option is to have SR staff (or an automated system) available to alter the feedback when the buyer and seller agree to a change.
Since you brought up FE in such a negative light, I will also say I think requiring FE of new accounts by established vendors on larger purchases is appropriate. I hate to bring up another potential big project, but, SR's unwillingness to let finalized transactions go to some sort of resolution process seems like a mistake to me. I know adding this would be a huge deal, but I think the SR of the future should have it.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: RxKing on August 27, 2013, 03:30 am
The only change I take issue with is to inability to edit previous feedback. I can see how this would discourage vendors from asking buyers to FE, and I think a good compromise point is to allow the text to be edited, but only allow the numerical rating to increase. This keeps the discouragement against FE, as a buyer would now be more likely to just leave a 1/5 until the package is received, since they can't go back the other way in the event of an issue with the transaction.



DPR has already commented on this...you just do lot leave feedback right away. You can still FE (stupid, but I understand some vendors reasons) and then after you receive product and/or tested it...you leave the feedback. Pretty simple.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: flwrchlds9 on August 27, 2013, 03:36 am
DPR - change can be good and appreciate moving forward. Remember what made this site success, simple easy and safe.

With all code changes more db lookup more processing etc keep in mind proper code audit. these change can cause unintend security problem.

Few comment:

Permanent feedback. think not best idea. many reason to change feedback not relate to scam. also slow down current vendor state of affair. if feedback only made 1 time can take more then 20 day before a feedback leave for problem as would go through resolution 1st, then maybe re-ship promise, maybe extend resolution many time etc.

Can see how vendor can keep negative feedback or scam for 30+ day before anybody get warning. Current way can leave feedback to warn about problem immediate and change update as go on. also see that many people F/E is best way to get warning of scam vendor, you take away this important tool by not edit feedback.

some vocal vendor cry a lot about scam buyer in forum. we know many vendor and scam buyer is real but selective scam vendor or bad service vendor is worse risk we think. if vendor make 300 sale in 1 month and 4 $80 sale are scam buyer, sometime this price of doing business and you refund the 4 scam buyer and save rating and end problem. This real problem in real life also, always have some small percentage of stolen credit card, shop lift etc. cost of business. vendor take care of customer like this show good customer service skill and is positive behavior from vendor. ways to mitigate larger scale scam. via tracking and store policies etc. cannot take away all risk all time and try to do this will cause more problem then solution.

now you say that buyer should use new discuss option to say these thing or forum, etc. see problem? adding complexity and steps to former simple process. you have feedback, discuss and forum. take time a learning curve. not for "us" but many not bother. believe end result is less safety for buyers and slower evolution of current vendor state.

new format also take more screen space and much empty space on page. max information in smallest space, more compact. depend on how person access, maybe take longer time for screen updates to scroll long page and have to load more often.

if can make sure new code is safe, compact feedback view, make stats more fuzzy and leave feedback able to edit think new changes will be winner  :)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: WhiteShark on August 27, 2013, 04:32 am
Not sure how much more difficult it is to leave feedback now however several customers are no longer leaving feedback
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NorcoCo on August 27, 2013, 04:59 am
This is really good that you all are realizing that vendor transaction history has been available all along.  I'll repeat what I said in the OP.  NO NEW INFORMATION IS BEING DISPLAYED.  It's only more conveniently displayed for all to see instead of just those willing to scrape the site and track every review of every product (including LE).  This new system actually decreases your visibility because going forward not every transaction will be reviewed.

I feel like a broken record over here.  If you are upset, just re-read my post and the wiki a few times.

With all respect, I don't understand how you think there is no new information being displayed.

The quantity of each order was not displayed before. That can be the difference between a $10 order and $2000 order of the same product.

Furthermore, buyer stats were not displayed before. Buyers lose their privacy too.

It is now very easy to identify the largest buyers making them prime targets for investigation. Now the whole world knows who those guys are that are doing $150k every couple months, exactly who they are buying from, and what products they are buying.

I just don't understand why all this information needs to be so public. If you guys want to adjust feedback ranking to consider these variables - that's fine. But you don't have to publish it all so blatantly.

that is true about the quantity.  How is it easy to ID buyers?

My apologies, you are right buyers are still protected by the hidden alias. The privacy loss is targeted at the vendors only. Could you please consider hiding the exact order price? At least add in price weight brackets. Each order can show "0-10 BTC", "over 100 BTC", etc.

Other sites do this, and I feel that given SR's high-profile status it makes sense to be more careful and conservative rather than less.

ok, I'll hide the quantity/price on pre-update reviews in the next hour or so.  going forward, this info will be more obscure than previously even with the quantity and price displayed because of reasons previously stated.

regarding sorting issues, I have changed the default to sort by freshness instead of weight.

ok THAT is the last word for a few days :P

You rock. Thank you so much :-)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: wishihada2JZ on August 27, 2013, 05:02 am
Not to kiss ass or anything, but just gotta appreciate the hard work and time that DPR puts in. Look at major corporations that don't take the time of day to read a single customer suggestion, then look here, how often DPR will read and respond to suggestions or comments. Just want to show my appreciation for all that work.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: ShazMo on August 27, 2013, 05:12 am
I think I have cooked too many brain cells...I have read over and over the threads and the wiki regarding the math behind weighted and unweighted feedback and it I just cant get my head around it...The bar chart doesn't make sense and the weighted/unweighted percentages are confusing as hell...  :(
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: StaticTension on August 27, 2013, 05:45 am
I love the new rating system, it's elegant but yet simply powerful without giving away too much info on details of the vendor that can be used by LE. Bravo  ;)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: sanrio on August 27, 2013, 06:25 am
I feel to much hassle to leave a feedback about vendor shipping stealth, product quality etc for other potential buyer to read, now i just finalize my order and rate vendor 5/5 and that's it. please bring back the blank column for feedback in finalize page. 
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: livestr0ng on August 27, 2013, 07:45 am
Here is where we stand at the moment: [...]

Reviews have been removed from item pages temporarily and will be returned in the new format.

[..]

This is the last I am going to say on the matter for a few days, and unless there are any major problems that I hadn't noticed before, there won't be any new changes until then.
So this isn't going to get fixed anytime soon?
I've been trying to keep up to date on this but I still don't understand if reviews are going to go back to being on specific product pages. If not, that's BS. I don't want to go through pages of a vendor's feedback to see if the specific listing I'm interested in even has reviews or not. At least make a way to sort a vendor's feedback by specific listing.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Orpheus99 on August 27, 2013, 07:50 am
I am not clear on the alias situation.  Ok, suppose I change my alias to hide my identity (Orpheus99) when I leave reviews.  Does that also change my identity when I post on the forums, send messages or order from a vendor? 
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: chil on August 27, 2013, 08:44 am
I really like the new system, much more comprehensive indeed.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: bluedev1 on August 27, 2013, 10:36 am
Thank you DPR!

Some constructive criticism: 

-Sorting by "5 out of 5" reviews, 4 out of 5, etc. does not seem that useful at all.   It's actually confusing and time-consuming to try and derive much useful info that way.  Sort by weight and sort by date posted are useful however.

-Formatting needs to be condensed.

-Is the discussion section necessary?  Don't the forums serve that purpose?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NW Nugz on August 27, 2013, 11:11 am
-Is the discussion section necessary?  Don't the forums serve that purpose?
I think the vision is to move the main discussion from review threads in the Forum to the SR discussion area. I am fine with that idea in theory. I don't think the anonymous posting part is going to work though. The forum reputation of those who comment is too important to abandon unless something as functional can be developed on SR's discussion pages. I guess it is possible. As Pine would probably tell us, we should not use our SR identities (Buyer/Vendor) when developing a reputation on the forum or in the discussion area. So, this could be a fresh start and we could all begin new reputations on SR in discussions and feedback. It would be nice to move full reviews to SR if they persist. That reminds me, SR seems to delete everything that is a couple months old. If that is true of the new discussion areas, then, almost no one will waste time developing a reputation that way. So, I guess unless SR really wants to develop persistant reputations on SR, the discussion area is unlikely to be nearly as functional as the forum. I'm not sure I understand the plan/intent though.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: strangemagic on August 27, 2013, 11:30 am
Not sure how much more difficult it is to leave feedback now however several customers are no longer leaving feedback

I don't think it's a matter of difficulty, it seems more likely that those several customers just don't want their stats published. And for such buyers, DPR's recommendation is not to leave a review.

As a buyer myself, I don't particularly want my stats published either (except to the vendors I buy from), but I do see that reviews are much more useful with buyer stats included, for multiple reasons. So what to do?

I think the best solution is the one suggested by someone in another thread (sorry i've forgotten who or exactly where), in which a buyer can choose the stats to be displayed with their review(s), within limits defined by the buyer's actual stats.

For example, say I have the following buyer stats:

Code: [Select]
account age          11m 6d
total transactions   25
total spent          $2,345
total vendors        7
refund rate          9.2%
auto-finalize rate   4%

... then for a particular review I might choose the following stats to be displayed with the review:

Code: [Select]
account age          9+ months
total transactions   15+
total spent          $900+
total vendors        5+
refund rate          < 10%
auto-finalize rate   < 5%

... just as long as the chosen stats do not paint a prettier picture than my actual buyer stats.

This facility might encourage more buyers to leave reviews because the information exposed, while still of value when compared to the old system, is less precise and thus the review is more anonymous, especially if the buyer can choose a different alias for each review.

And I think it is far better than this option:

new reviews show a buyer's stats [...].  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.

But the bottom line for me is that, with the new system as it stands, I will not be leaving any reviews, but I definitely want my vendor to know what rating I have given the transaction. Can my vendor see that information if I don't leave a review?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: sbraser on August 27, 2013, 11:39 am
i don't like this new system, i am labeled as a scammer.

DPR explained me that: "With that in mind, the two 1 of 5 ratings and the one 2 of 5 rating outweigh the 111 5 of 5 ratings by a factor of 10.  This is because the low ratings are for large transactions by highly rated buyers and the high ratings are for small amounts from low weight buyers."

But i have also a lot of 5/5 feedbacks, for little and also for big transactions.
I don't know what i have to do
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NW Nugz on August 27, 2013, 12:36 pm
i don't like this new system, i am labeled as a scammer.

DPR explained me that: "With that in mind, the two 1 of 5 ratings and the one 2 of 5 rating outweigh the 111 5 of 5 ratings by a factor of 10.  This is because the low ratings are for large transactions by highly rated buyers and the high ratings are for small amounts from low weight buyers."

But i have also a lot of 5/5 feedbacks, for little and also for big transactions.
I don't know what i have to do
I looked at your feedback and can not understand why you are rated so low. I'd guess there is a flaw in the math (which I have not been able to understand anyway) or the hidden info about one or more of the buyers that gave you low ratings makes them extreme heavyweights and they are unbalancing your ranking. On first glance this does not seem correct. I can't see all the important info, though. I wonder if this is happening to others also?
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: WhiteShark on August 27, 2013, 03:09 pm
It looks a if no one is leaving feedback anymore. My last 6 transactions no feedback was left. After messaging customers it seems they are not sure how to leave feedback...
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: ananas_xpress on August 27, 2013, 03:38 pm
The only change I take issue with is to inability to edit previous feedback. I can see how this would discourage vendors from asking buyers to FE, and I think a good compromise point is to allow the text to be edited, but only allow the numerical rating to increase. This keeps the discouragement against FE, as a buyer would now be more likely to just leave a 1/5 until the package is received, since they can't go back the other way in the event of an issue with the transaction.

The best change, in my opinion, is disallowing vendors from seeing who left what feedback if the buyer used an alias. This means a buyer can be honest without fear of reprisal by a jilted vendor that still has the buyers address. This, however, presents the issue that a vendor can no longer message that buyer to try and smooth things. The solution to that seems to be to give the vendor a link to send a message to the alias, without revealing who the buyer's main username actually was.

That's not strictly true, Via the "view feedback" link I can still see all  numerical feedback for my items sold and the real account name of the person who left it so using an alias only protects the person from other buyers/vendors/LE and basically serves no purpose at all other than leaving an anonymous review on the discussion page (which anyone can do)
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: DanDanTheIceCreamMan on August 27, 2013, 05:11 pm
I'm not liking the fact that when I click on an item now there is no feedback on the bottom of the page for that specific item. And when I go to the vendor page I have to sift through all the reviews to try to find the ones for that item. That makes me a sad ice cream man :(
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: Tessellated on August 27, 2013, 05:35 pm
i don't like this new system, i am labeled as a scammer.

DPR explained me that: "With that in mind, the two 1 of 5 ratings and the one 2 of 5 rating outweigh the 111 5 of 5 ratings by a factor of 10.  This is because the low ratings are for large transactions by highly rated buyers and the high ratings are for small amounts from low weight buyers."

But i have also a lot of 5/5 feedbacks, for little and also for big transactions.
I don't know what i have to do

WTF? That simply does not add up, this must be some new kind of math.

Even if this is a result of weighting that is just too much weight! A buyer should only be so powerful, even if they spent $50,000 here they should not be able to crush a vendor with so many 5/5s and so few low ratings.

The "weight" a person can hold should be capped to something reasonable.

Look at how significant the difference between weighted and unweighted is: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/reviews/07dd677c54

Code: [Select]
Unweighted: 96% 5/5, 2% 4/5, 1% 1/5, 2% 1/5
Weighted:   9% 5/5, 90% 1/5

That is some extreme weighting.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: farmer1 on August 27, 2013, 06:04 pm
i don't like this new system, i am labeled as a scammer.

DPR explained me that: "With that in mind, the two 1 of 5 ratings and the one 2 of 5 rating outweigh the 111 5 of 5 ratings by a factor of 10.  This is because the low ratings are for large transactions by highly rated buyers and the high ratings are for small amounts from low weight buyers."

But i have also a lot of 5/5 feedbacks, for little and also for big transactions.
I don't know what i have to do

WTF? That simply does not add up, this must be some new kind of math.

Even if this is a result of weighting that is just too much weight! A buyer should only be so powerful, even if they spent $50,000 here they should not be able to crush a vendor with so many 5/5s and so few low ratings.

The "weight" a person can hold should be capped to something reasonable.

Look at how significant the difference between weighted and unweighted is: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/reviews/07dd677c54

Code: [Select]
Unweighted: 96% 5/5, 2% 4/5, 1% 1/5, 2% 1/5
Weighted:   9% 5/5, 90% 1/5

That is some extreme weighting.

No doubt. You need to be more wary of heavy buyers then light ones.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: ananas_xpress on August 27, 2013, 08:27 pm
i don't like this new system, i am labeled as a scammer.

DPR explained me that: "With that in mind, the two 1 of 5 ratings and the one 2 of 5 rating outweigh the 111 5 of 5 ratings by a factor of 10.  This is because the low ratings are for large transactions by highly rated buyers and the high ratings are for small amounts from low weight buyers."

But i have also a lot of 5/5 feedbacks, for little and also for big transactions.
I don't know what i have to do

That leads me into a question for DPR/Admins, Is the feedback weight of a user calculated on total BTC spent or total $$ spent?
I can image if it was weighted in bitcoins spent than the old members reviews would hold way more clout as they may have spent 1000's of BTC's on here when they were only worth a few dollars each.

WTF? That simply does not add up, this must be some new kind of math.

Even if this is a result of weighting that is just too much weight! A buyer should only be so powerful, even if they spent $50,000 here they should not be able to crush a vendor with so many 5/5s and so few low ratings.

The "weight" a person can hold should be capped to something reasonable.

Look at how significant the difference between weighted and unweighted is: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/reviews/07dd677c54

Code: [Select]
Unweighted: 96% 5/5, 2% 4/5, 1% 1/5, 2% 1/5
Weighted:   9% 5/5, 90% 1/5

That is some extreme weighting.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: flwrchlds9 on August 30, 2013, 01:52 am
Current Ketamine Ocean scam that is going on is good example of what happens when cannot edit feedback and must wait to leave it.

Before the change, there be 3-5 page of - FE waiting for arrival - feedback and have person think before order.

Now no new feedback until after resolution expire. And scam continue.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: convergedlight on August 30, 2013, 02:17 am
Current Ketamine Ocean scam that is going on is good example of what happens when cannot edit feedback and must wait to leave it.

Before the change, there be 3-5 page of - FE waiting for arrival - feedback and have person think before order.

Now no new feedback until after resolution expire. And scam continue.

There are obviously numerous important legitimate uses for editing feedback, as several of us have posted for days.  I suppose the occasional unscrupulous user may try to scam or blackmail with a rating, but I have a hard time believing they are any more than a small minority of users.  Besides, why couldn't they just scam or blackmail before making the rating the first time if they are so unscrupulous?  I think the benefits of a system where feedback can be edited and there are no privacy concerns for buyers thus encouraging more widespread use of the feedback system made for a much better quality site.  It is hard to believe that blackmailing users was such an epidemic that it is worth the current state of affairs to try to blot it out.  I'm not saying the occasional blackmailer is not unfair to vendors, but it seems like editing feedback provide the greater good.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: WhiteShark on August 30, 2013, 03:03 am
Loving the new feedback system!! Scammers and great vendors are much more easily identified now, before selective scamming could be easily hidden underneath padded feedback. This is no longer the case.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: plainsman1963 on August 30, 2013, 03:18 am
Current Ketamine Ocean scam that is going on is good example of what happens when cannot edit feedback and must wait to leave it.

Before the change, there be 3-5 page of - FE waiting for arrival - feedback and have person think before order.

Now no new feedback until after resolution expire. And scam continue.
Well it seems to me that it is much easier to see he is a scammer because of the discuss link on his vendor page. 41 discussions warning folks he is a scammer. Looks to me to be as good or better than the old system as a way to warn potential buyers.
Title: Re: The last word on ratings and reviews for a few days
Post by: NW Nugz on August 31, 2013, 06:57 am
Current Ketamine Ocean scam that is going on is good example of what happens when cannot edit feedback and must wait to leave it.

Before the change, there be 3-5 page of - FE waiting for arrival - feedback and have person think before order.

Now no new feedback until after resolution expire. And scam continue.
Well it seems to me that it is much easier to see he is a scammer because of the discuss link on his vendor page. 41 discussions warning folks he is a scammer. Looks to me to be as good or better than the old system as a way to warn potential buyers.
The discussion page is great so far. It can be padded rather easily as well if anonymous posting by non-buyers is being allowed. Seeing the commenter's stats should help a lot with that. I don't think anyone is asking that that page be removed. I think the complaints are about the feedback system and how it is displayed (and not displayed). I think a weighted feedback sort is valuable for identifying selective scammers if it can be weighted properly. I doubt anyone is opposed to having that sort available. My main issue at this time is lack of easy access to recent transactions so buyers and vendors can see what has been happening most recently. I think this information is crucial to buyers and darn handy for vendors.

A side note:
If feedback with prices buyers spent is still being reported, I'd like those prices to be accurate (or generalized and clearly labeled as such). Last time I saw them they appeared to be reporting a lowered amount. I'm guessing it was the amount the seller received after SR fees. I think the full amount the buyer paid should be reported.