Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 06:23 pm

Title: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 06:23 pm
UPDATE: I created a wiki page that might help clarify some of these changes: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Ratings_%26_Reviews

ok, we're ready to push out the next update.  I'll be closing the site for an hour or two while we do this.

In this update we'll see a few changes.

When you have finalized your order, you won't have to leave a review or a rating.  When leaving a rating, you will see phrases next to the 1 - 5 scores giving you a sense of what they represent.  If you have unreviewed transactions with a vendor, a link will appear on their page where you can leave a review.  Reviews on a vendors page now have the buyer's stats, and the transaction stats.  A vendor's rating widget links to a dedicated ratings and reviews page where you can see a breakdown of a vendors ratings, both weighted and unweighted, along with all of their reviews broken down by 1 - 5 groups.  Also, all ratings and reviews will be final and uneditable.  That means, if you have not received your order or tested it, you should not rate or review it!  Oh yea, and you'll be able to sort reviews by weight or freshness.  I hope you enjoy it!

Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 25, 2013, 06:38 pm
atta boy, always working for us!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: boysen on August 25, 2013, 06:44 pm
Sounds like some nice changes! Thanks for keeping this whole thing both running and updated!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 25, 2013, 06:57 pm
What about abolishing F/E altogether boss?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Tessellated on August 25, 2013, 06:59 pm
...Also, all ratings and reviews will be final and uneditable....Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.

Oh boy! There is a Santa!

What about abolishing F/E altogether boss?

I don't think mandatory escrow would be enforcable. If neither the buyer or seller want escrow then why force them? If you don't like FE just don't do it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 25, 2013, 07:05 pm
I wonder how extortionists are going to work with the un-edited feedback...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 07:12 pm
*holding hand over heart and stumbling around like Red Fox in Sandford and Sons*

"Elizabeth, it's the big one. I'm coming to meet you in glory! Oh Lord. It's the big one."

Out-freaking-standing!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 07:13 pm
What about abolishing F/E altogether boss?

Just say no to escrow. Problem solved. ;)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SexyWax on August 25, 2013, 07:17 pm
YES DPR, making reviews permanent!!! we've wanted this for so long!!!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: missbliss on August 25, 2013, 07:20 pm
ok, we're ready to push out the next update.  I'll be closing the site for an hour or two while we do this.

In this update we'll see a few changes.

When you have finalized your order, you won't have to leave a review or a rating.  When leaving a rating, you will see phrases next to the 1 - 5 scores giving you a sense of what they represent.  If you have unreviewed transactions with a vendor, a link will appear on their page where you can leave a review.  Reviews on a vendors page now have the buyer's stats, and the transaction stats.  A vendor's rating widget links to a dedicated ratings and reviews page where you can see a breakdown of a vendors ratings, both weighted and unweighted, along with all of their reviews broken down by 1 - 5 groups.  Also, all ratings and reviews will be final and uneditable.  That means, if you have not received your order or tested it, you should not rate or review it!  Oh yea, and you'll be able to sort reviews by weight or freshness.  I hope you enjoy it!

Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.

hi hi

in the words of George Takei:  "Ohh, My!"

FEEDBACK IS LOCKED IN STONE! YEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!

much love for this DPR
xoxo
-mb
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: TrippyNation on August 25, 2013, 07:25 pm
The forums are down and so is the site for obvious reasons.  What worries me is that we have to go onto .to just to access the forums which is quite a worry.  Thank you so much DPR for making these very important changes and improvements to make the site better and more user friendly and also protection for the buyer and vendor.  But if you let us all know how long roughly you think you will be please as theres are customers that will get rude against me about their order not being prepared on time.

I hope all goes well and thank you for my massive bonus for being an asset to SR! I love you!

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 07:29 pm
Hey! There's some guy playing "taps" on a bugle over on Atlantis. Sad day for Atlanteans. This update marks the beginning of the end for Atlantis. Now they have nothing over SR. (Nope, Litecoins ain't shit.)

VENDORS - listen up. While this is great, great news. It comes with a price. Start increasing reserves because some orders may start finalizing a little later. Small price to pay for this much wished for update.


Can you hear the collective "Noooooooooooooo" from the buyer scammers? I swear the floor of SR just vibrated. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Diceman on August 25, 2013, 07:36 pm
This is great news.  Hopefully this will encourage buyers to wait until they have sampled the product before leaving feedback, thus leaving more meaningful feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: darkmagic65 on August 25, 2013, 07:40 pm
oh great I just bought some buds and was ganna ask for the tracking when avalible i hope my order comes sometime this week how long is SR going to be down for?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: AsianVixen on August 25, 2013, 07:40 pm
Keep up the good work , and god do something about vendors who give themselves fake feedback's some of them are ridiculous :).
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 25, 2013, 07:41 pm
Yeah, I like to Finalize the moment I have the product in - it's only fair to pay ASAP after all - but it means I have to leave a review even though the product is untested. Weed I can have a quick joint of but it's not always convenient to test acid and molly at 11am when the post man comes. Sometimes, but not always!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Trappy on August 25, 2013, 07:42 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 25, 2013, 07:43 pm
Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.

My panties are soaking wet! :D
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: skitzo on August 25, 2013, 07:44 pm
What about improving the search functionality DPR? I for instance was searching for a users name the other day and it wouldn't even find any of his listings? I had to actually get him to link me.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 25, 2013, 07:45 pm
it doesn't mean you have to leave a review, you can finalize when you have the gear, and wait on leaving the feedback until you have done enough of it to leave good feedback.  As DPR states any feedback you have yet to leave will be on the vendor's page when you visit it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 07:51 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: westb0xes on August 25, 2013, 07:54 pm
thank you so much !! u guys doing a great job i appreciate that ! +1  ;D
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vatican on August 25, 2013, 07:54 pm
Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.

Wow this sounds great!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: fittesaft on August 25, 2013, 07:56 pm
You guys are better than amazon, honestly.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: qasm on August 25, 2013, 07:58 pm
Hello DPR

Can't wait to see the changes sounds pretty cool thanks for looking after us.
One question I had an order I fe'd
For due on Wednesday will I still be able to change feedback for it

Peace qasm
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: dellboy on August 25, 2013, 07:59 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.

Many substances I buy can't be tested until the next weekend at the earliest. This will force buyers to hold escrow much longer than necessary. I typically released funds upon receipt of goods that looked correct, knowing I could always pop back later and 1/5 if a problem was discovered.

What exact improvement was this change intended to bring for buyers?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: darkmagic65 on August 25, 2013, 08:01 pm
when will sr be back up and will this downtime freeze auto FE?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: atlas2012 on August 25, 2013, 08:03 pm
it happens many times, that customers who are unhappy with waiting time or anything else, they instantly leave a bad review instead of messaging the vendor. then after messaging, they mostly appologize for the bad rating and do something more senseful.

so in this cases, when a customer leaves a "emotional" 1/5, he has no option to change it to a better rating later?

I would really appreciate if it would be possible for the customer to have to option to "improve" a rating later.
(i'm ok with blocking later bad feedbacks, of course)

much love from a 100% guy.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ItalianMafiaBrussels on August 25, 2013, 08:03 pm
Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.

Wow this sounds great!

+1

This is such a good news.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 08:08 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.

Many substances I buy can't be tested until the next weekend at the earliest. This will force buyers to hold escrow much longer than necessary. I typically released funds upon receipt of goods that looked correct, knowing I could always pop back later and 1/5 if a problem was discovered.

What exact improvement was this change intended to bring for buyers?

you can release payment before leaving a rating or review, in fact you have to.  it's always been that way.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: mynameis_420 on August 25, 2013, 08:09 pm
Yes i totally i agree with a lot of the issues with FE. FE is a total scam, and too many people are being victimized by it. DRP you need to throw that on the list of all things you wish to update for the better. This gets out of hands, maybe you should make the Vendor bond 1,500 or PLUS.. anyone cant put together $500.. Thus making these scams very real!

-420
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: cactuschomper on August 25, 2013, 08:12 pm
YAY! Locked in feedback, I'm hard.

Just don't finalize until you test guys, for things like MDMA keep a test kit handy.  If you are sketched out at all and you think the product is fake/cut/analog/short/intercepted etc. that is what res. center should be for.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Trappy on August 25, 2013, 08:13 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.

Many substances I buy can't be tested until the next weekend at the earliest. This will force buyers to hold escrow much longer than necessary. I typically released funds upon receipt of goods that looked correct, knowing I could always pop back later and 1/5 if a problem was discovered.

What exact improvement was this change intended to bring for buyers?

The improvement is that a scammer with several legitimate purchases can no longer change the rating on previous purchases for a cascade of lowered rating. They can only use that one singular purchase to fuck with you. I'm OK with that, that is a good change.

But it doesn't allow for grievances to be salved. During my tenure with BudCentral, I have made sure that we doled out refunds when necessary. However, since this change, after the review, everything is final. This is a net decrease in benefit to the customer in exchange for a net benefit to the vendor, and I would beseech DPR to amend it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Zen Garden on August 25, 2013, 08:13 pm
I am so glad to be here to witness all of this right now.
Someone play "Wind of Change" by The Scorpions already!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: LoveDreamer on August 25, 2013, 08:20 pm
Thanks DPR for the much needed update  ;D
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: amsterdamdrugs on August 25, 2013, 08:21 pm
I wonder how extortionists are going to work with the un-edited feedback...

I think that's the good thing of the un-editeble feedback.
But just like a lot of people said this before me... a lot of customers leave emotional feedback and change if afterwards.
So I think this will mess up the stats of some vendors (including mine) this happened a view hours ago to me.

The changes look awesome, and I really hope we as vendors get something to say about customers too.
Thanks for that DPR!

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: mojorizen on August 25, 2013, 08:21 pm
Damn, that's some improvement in things. Really how it should have always been. Better late than never.

SR is kickin' ass these days.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 08:22 pm
This would be great if ratings were for the PRODUCT ONLY, not for both product and vendor.  You see, many buyers only rate vendor performance, not product quality. or vice-versa.  We need ratings to be SEPARATED!!  Each purchase gets TWO ratings, one for VENDOR PERFORMANCE. one for PRODUCT QUALITY.

Are you listening, DPR?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 08:27 pm
In addition, vendors should be able to rate buyers for each purchase!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: clearance on August 25, 2013, 08:27 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.

I really dislike this. All of my less than 5/5 rating were left by noobies that are quick to make decisions.  I've had to get with them all personally and ask how I could make everything a more satisfactory transaction.  Good, regular SR users will always contact you before hand to sort things out, but I PROMISE you that you're not going to stop emotional noobs from getting on, negging someone and not giving a fuck unless they get compensated.

..... Which sometimes that's okay. Sometimes they deserve to be compensated, but I will not compensate someone or try to make the transaction more satisfactory if there is no point (the new system).

Like many vendors, I have thousands and thousands of transactions under my belt. I have exactly zero ratings less than 5/5 right now.  I would have a good handful  of less than 5/5 reviews with the news system and you'd probably have a lot more people venturing the road that feel legitimately fucked over. I don't want that.

I''ll deal with scammers, bitchasses, and punkass kids but I'm here to serve the customer. So let me serve the customer.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: qasm on August 25, 2013, 08:28 pm
I also had a smoke report I wanted to add to another order will there be a cooling off period or will it be instantaneous locked feedback when the road comes back on would definitely be great if we could have a week just to fix up the will update on the weekend feedbacks which deserved an updated feedback
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: fast dude on August 25, 2013, 08:30 pm
Excellent to many users just give 5 out of five and not real rating.Product after all is what we want ,not to hear how nice vendor is who gona bump you .
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 08:33 pm
Ouch, so buyers who had poor experiences but were refunded won't even be allowed to change their ratings? Will see see potential options to edit reviews from the Resolution center? Could you manufacture another resolution center, but for past grievances?

you should only leave feedback once you are completely through with the transaction.  If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.

Many substances I buy can't be tested until the next weekend at the earliest. This will force buyers to hold escrow much longer than necessary. I typically released funds upon receipt of goods that looked correct, knowing I could always pop back later and 1/5 if a problem was discovered.

What exact improvement was this change intended to bring for buyers?

The improvement is that a scammer with several legitimate purchases can no longer change the rating on previous purchases for a cascade of lowered rating. They can only use that one singular purchase to fuck with you. I'm OK with that, that is a good change.

But it doesn't allow for grievances to be salved. During my tenure with BudCentral, I have made sure that we doled out refunds when necessary. However, since this change, after the review, everything is final. This is a net decrease in benefit to the customer in exchange for a net benefit to the vendor, and I would beseech DPR to amend it.

all you have to do is attempt to resolve your grievances BEFORE leaving a review/rating.  If they can't be resolved, then leave a low rating.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: tina on August 25, 2013, 08:39 pm

all you have to do is attempt to resolve your grievances BEFORE leaving a review/rating.  If they can't be resolved, then leave a low rating.

So many kids get their pinch of "molly" and immediately leave a 3/5 because it doesn't work with their SSRI or something lame like that.

I could rehash this scenario 33 different times. It all boils down to people not being blown away by the gear and neg bombing you without any interest in striking up dialogue.

How are you supposed to work things out when they are zero intent of letting you know that the product wasn't what they had hoped for?

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Psytanium on August 25, 2013, 08:40 pm
... And justice for all   8)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 08:41 pm
We need ratings to be SEPARATED!!  Each purchase gets TWO ratings, one for VENDOR PERFORMANCE. one for PRODUCT QUALITY.
good point, brother.

Exactly... The ratings are on the PRODUCT page... Should have nothing to do with the VENDOR PERFORMANCE.  Obviously, if the product was received, the vendor was fine.

Vendor speed of delivery, quality of stealth, etc., should go elsewhere.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Hornswaggled on August 25, 2013, 08:44 pm
This would be great if ratings were for the PRODUCT ONLY, not for both product and vendor.  You see, many buyers only rate vendor performance, not product quality. or vice-versa.  We need ratings to be SEPARATED!!  Each purchase gets TWO ratings, one for VENDOR PERFORMANCE. one for PRODUCT QUALITY.

Are you listening, DPR?

I REALLY like that idea - makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: mynameis_420 on August 25, 2013, 08:44 pm
We need ratings to be SEPARATED!!  Each purchase gets TWO ratings, one for VENDOR PERFORMANCE. one for PRODUCT QUALITY.
good point, brother.

Exactly... The ratings are on the PRODUCT page... Should have nothing to do with the VENDOR PERFORMANCE.  Obviously, if the product was received, the vendor was fine.

Vendor speed of delivery, quality of stealth, etc., should go elsewhere.

Agreed!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: realdeals on August 25, 2013, 08:46 pm
YES INDEED.
I got a 3/5 and a 4/5 rating. It really pisses me off cuz the weed is 5/5 like everyone said . And I give averyone a lil more. Some buyers are just mean.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: atlas2012 on August 25, 2013, 08:46 pm

all you have to do is attempt to resolve your grievances BEFORE leaving a review/rating.  If they can't be resolved, then leave a low rating.

So many kids get their pinch of "molly" and immediately leave a 3/5 because it doesn't work with their SSRI or something lame like that.

I could rehash this scenario 33 different times. It all boils down to people not being blown away by the gear and neg bombing you without any interest in striking up dialogue.

How are you supposed to work things out when they are zero intent of letting you know that the product wasn't what they had hoped for?

exactely.

the results are mainly in getting big karma problems here.

the vendors loose interest to solve a situation with not fully satisfied customers.
the customers loose trust in ratings.
the connection between vendor and customer is ended after the customer left his review.

i spent most of my time here on the road with solving situations with customers.
there are hundred things that can happen. but civiliced people like 99% here on the road are able to solve every situation.
and i really like the job to make every single customer happy. this is the daily-goal for me. and i guess for many more vendors here.

don't break the chain of faith, please brother dpr.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: TheCompany on August 25, 2013, 08:51 pm
So what happens to the guy who just left me a 1 and called me a scammer after i refunded him money, and said he will not change the review until he receives it this week....

now it's set in stone..
how do we vendors deal with the few extortionists & problematic buyers that suddenly decide they will hold our feedback hostage.

His buyer stats seemed fine and its hard to predict who will suddenly flip out.

Great changes, but being stuck with a 1 for no reason permanently gives power to extortionists like  the user, "nuce28", who took my refund back and still refused to change my review...so now the words "scamer scamer scamer and lier" (cant even spell) marr my feedback.


I am confident DPR will do the right thing and make the right call.

just voicing my frustration with buyers holding feedback hostage..
Title: resolution no reviews??
Post by: GOTMILKTEAM on August 25, 2013, 08:52 pm
Dear DPR,

We have many products shipped standard mail for safety and price considerations, customs etc.

Almost all these packages take over 17 days to arrive. If clients got to resolution which we encourage them to do we wont have ability to get reviews on these products. I think this is a very bad idea as it will direct impact many vendors and cheat customers of necessary reviews which in turn effect sales.

GotMilk
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: clearance on August 25, 2013, 08:53 pm
don't break the chain of faith, please brother dpr.

Agreed.

My piddly side hobby didn't become a full blown enterprise by passing the gear around and not giving a fuck anymore. Please, allow me to still give a fuck and have something to show for it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: PotatoConnoisseur on August 25, 2013, 08:59 pm
I think this is an improvement, most good buyers contact a vendor before leaving a bad review anyways. I see the problem with the bad buyers impulsively leaving 1/5 or trying to blackmail a vendor, maybe the buyer ratings could eliminate all feedback from a certain buyer if their score drops too low. Or if a buyer is inactive for a long period of time (not logging on at all) all of their reviews disappear. So buyers who create new accounts after getting a bad rating will have their old accounts become harmless.

It's a step in the right direction, I'm more excited to see what the system to rate buyers will be.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: clearance on August 25, 2013, 08:59 pm

all you have to do is attempt to resolve your grievances BEFORE leaving a review/rating.  If they can't be resolved, then leave a low rating.

So many kids get their pinch of "molly" and immediately leave a 3/5 because it doesn't work with their SSRI or something lame like that.

I could rehash this scenario 33 different times. It all boils down to people not being blown away by the gear and neg bombing you without any interest in striking up dialogue.

How are you supposed to work things out when they are zero intent of letting you know that the product wasn't what they had hoped for?

My thoughts exactly. 

Usually I send a user like this a message saying that I want to help him somehow.

"Why did you leave me a 2/5? Weak MDMA? Are you on medication? Oh... you're on prozak? Well gee whizz buddy, you better stay on that. If you're looking for a far out experience, I'd like to send you a little ketamine instead. This will be a different, but powerful experience. I hope you have fun. Please let me know how I can help you before you leave your review next time"

Said user usually wont log on for another 10 days to actually read this, but they always bite and are glad to change their ratings.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: postrex on August 25, 2013, 09:02 pm
This is awesome.  So long as there is something bold to clarify the finalize/feedback process effectively:
Make it obvious that "finalizing" is marking the package as received and "feedback" should ONLY be left after trying the produce and giving the vendor the opportunity to respond to any issues.  Simple bold notes to this effect at various points on the site should handle most of the "quick emotional feedback" qualms.

Maybe have a separate deadlines for feedback on the buyer's side too?  This would make it more obvious that releasing escrow ("finalizing") and leaving feedback are separate acts.  Many people seem to miss, that this has always been the case.  Since we are adopting a system enforces this distinction more (by making feedback permanent, and so removing the "feedback later" aspect), it is important to make this very patent and clear to buyers.

It could also use an ebay-like system where high volume vendors can request a re-review for a few items per (year?, month? not sure what typical vendor profile life expectancy is).

Overall... awesome.

Just hope the site comes back up soon.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 09:04 pm
Yeah, this thread will open a lot of eyes and be HUGE!  Look at ratings on The Shroomery (www.shroomery.org) for example... "User ratings" in one set, "Trade ratings" for the user are separate.  A hated user in the forums can be a trustworthy trader, and a liked user can be a flakey trader or vice-versa.

Same goes for PRODUCT QUALITY and VENDOR RELIANCE.

This site could learn a lot from that site.

DPR, are you listening?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 09:08 pm

all you have to do is attempt to resolve your grievances BEFORE leaving a review/rating.  If they can't be resolved, then leave a low rating.

So many kids get their pinch of "molly" and immediately leave a 3/5 because it doesn't work with their SSRI or something lame like that.

I could rehash this scenario 33 different times. It all boils down to people not being blown away by the gear and neg bombing you without any interest in striking up dialogue.

How are you supposed to work things out when they are zero intent of letting you know that the product wasn't what they had hoped for?

this update does not address this problem.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: incubusdriver on August 25, 2013, 09:11 pm
this update does not address this problem.

DPR, no system is invincible. This system is at least a major improvement. Good going :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: livestr0ng on August 25, 2013, 09:11 pm
[...] If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback.
WHAT?! Can anybody explain why this is sensible?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: weedrus on August 25, 2013, 09:13 pm
bad idea imo, will cause lots of vendors to lose there high ratings due to emotional buyers who leave a low feedback and now carnt change it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: clearance on August 25, 2013, 09:14 pm
this update does not address this problem.

Maybe I don't fully understand the new update... but it seems to galvanize the problem. If the buyer wants to be hasty and a bit inconsiderate and immediately leave a rating with no dialogue, then it's time for me to START dialogue. I'll get more details about what went wrong. I'll try to fix it.

If I can't convince them to change rating by making things right (who knows, I could have messed up), then I will have a lot less interest in going the extra mile for the customer.  I've always wondered what it would be like to change my business model to packing more shit out the door instead of caring. I think others would go back to the drawing board too. You might not like the results.

BOOM, just like that, someone might lose permanent interest in our treasured market with one experience that could have been rectified.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: frank-butcher24 on August 25, 2013, 09:14 pm
WHAT?! Can anybody explain why this is sensible?

Because when you're in resolution, you haven't yet finished dealing with the vendor.

Once the deal is 'resolved', then you can leave feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: fuckingACE on August 25, 2013, 09:17 pm
Agreed, three days ago We were left a 1/5 with the word Scammer on feedback for our opium listing.  The buyer finalized on day 14 without striking up any dialogue or going to resolution... He said that the shipping was taking too long, despite a notice on our profile saying that some orders were slightly delayed.... yesterday the opium arrived. Why do we have to deal with these dullards that canĀ“t use the site.
ACE
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 09:19 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bho4ever on August 25, 2013, 09:21 pm
I've left numerous positive reviews after finalizing and the review is never shown. Hopefully that's fixed.  Seems like transaction stats don't really mean a whole lot since Digital and Lotta ticket purchases are included in the transaction history. Would be great if those transactions could be separated from illicit transactions or not counted at all in transaction stats.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 09:21 pm
Obviously, vendors who have problems that need to be solved on a regular basis have a BIG problem with this update.
On the other hand, vendors who have consistent great service with great product have little complaint.
I suggest that until another system is rolled out, vendors strive to obtain 5/5 on each sale. PERIOD.

I believe that is the intent of this change.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: frank-butcher24 on August 25, 2013, 09:25 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.

We shall see, but for now:

An error was encountered.

We could not process your request.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: darkmagic65 on August 25, 2013, 09:29 pm
[...] If it is in resolution, you won't even have the option to leave feedback. this needs to be fixed
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Hornswaggled on August 25, 2013, 09:30 pm
Same here - error encountered.

I'm sure all will be well with the Road in a shake of a lamb's tail...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 09:30 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.

YES!  BUG!! No longer able to "VIEW FEEDBACK"!!!, Not just unable to edit it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 25, 2013, 09:30 pm
Kickass change, fuck dem scammers
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Wa1ter White on August 25, 2013, 09:32 pm
Im noticing that some feedback that had been deleted from my account is back.

a 1/5 someone left me and then it dissapeared a few weeks back and now it's back!  Although on my stats it does not show that i have received a 1/5??


Also notice that some feedback someone left me a couple of days ago, they left a 2/5 and a 3/5, when i asked them why they said it was an accident and changed it to 5/5. Now this feedback has reverted to what it was before they changed it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: amsterdamdrugs on August 25, 2013, 09:33 pm
To be honest I was looking at my feedback a couple of seconds ago and... it sucks.
With all due respect to DPR (much love and appreciation), but I got like 3 feedback posts that are 2 months old saying FE, FE, FE because they were never updated.
My last posted feedback was a lot more accurate to my product quality and customer service.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 25, 2013, 09:34 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.

sounds like a solution to extortions and hasty feedback
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 09:34 pm
Same here - error encountered.

I'm sure all will be well with the Road in a shake of a lamb's tail...

does a browser restart fix this?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: atlas2012 on August 25, 2013, 09:34 pm

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.

so i would call the missing "increase feedback" as a bug from now :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bitdoctor on August 25, 2013, 09:35 pm
bad idea imo, will cause lots of vendors to lose there high ratings due to emotional buyers who leave a low feedback and now carnt change it.

I agree. Ive only been a vendor for two months and had 'emotional feedback' left only to be changed later. One client said my product was shitty then later apologized saying he didnt actually try it first and it turned out to be amazing. He changed his feedback and everyone was happy. Now what? That bad score will be permanent? That means my perfect score will be completely in the hands of the buyer. Im not on board with this. Having the ability to work with an unsatisfied customer and get that 5/5 is important. Also im sure if a crap score is left than alot of buyers might find vendors not giving a shit about helping them with a resolution because the feedback cant change. There would be no incentive and thats all bad.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: clearance on August 25, 2013, 09:35 pm
Obviously, vendors who have problems that need to be solved on a regular basis have a BIG problem with this update.
On the other hand, vendors who have consistent great service with great product have little complaint.
I suggest that until another system is rolled out, vendors strive to obtain 5/5 on each sale. PERIOD.

I believe that is the intent of this change.

This is much easier said than done. Let me share a recent story.

I've been stocking some of the best ketamine that I ever have had my hands on.  The ketamine crowd, for me at least, is very picky... hard to please. They will often straight up interrogate me before ordering and they love to test you gear via reagents all the time. They are straight up connoisseurs. That being said, I do exceptionally well with them.

So. "Chad" orders a gram of my ket. He leaves a 2/5 review saying how fast the delivery was and the stealth was great. The product was very disappointing though..... So I get to the bottom of this.. Chad has never done ketamine before. Didn't know how to weight it out, doesn't have a drug scale, does not know what a reagent test is, and he is eating the ketamine and redosing every 1.5 hours by eating more ketamine. For some reason.... he couldn't reach the k-hole before having an upset stomach....

Tell me what I did wrong here. I sent out awesome product. My stealth is great, and I nailed his first class delivery with the right speed.

I'm going to chalk this up to his noobery. I'm not too happy about that.... but it's okay. I had a discussion with him. I wanted to set him well on his way to meeting his spirit journey goals by giving him good information and accommodating in a different way.

I wouldn't even talk to this noob if i was locked at a 2/5 rating.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: shinzon76 on August 25, 2013, 09:37 pm
I'm not sure I understand the problem removing the ability to edit feedback is intended to solve; DPR, can you go into a little more detail behind your motivation for this change? Best I could come up with was the potential for abuse with the system as it was, where a buyer with many transactions with a particular vendor could then extort the vendor, threatening to change all the previous orders to 1 if the vendor doesn't comply with demands.

If you wont reconsider this change, perhaps you could add a set amount of time where feedback can be changed after it was left, after which it can no longer be edited. This would allow users to fix typos, or to edit with new information if the situation has changed.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Hornswaggled on August 25, 2013, 09:38 pm
Same here - error encountered.

I'm sure all will be well with the Road in a shake of a lamb's tail...

does a browser restart fix this?

Didn't need to, DPR - site working well now. Must have been a "blip".
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 25, 2013, 09:38 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.



dumb idea

stop being a CONTROL FREAK
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: darkmagic65 on August 25, 2013, 09:40 pm
i hate the way the buy feedback itself looks now its way to bloated and i hate their is not pages now
you should make it look like it used to but with the new features please
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 25, 2013, 09:40 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.



dumb idea

stop being a CONTROL FREAK

dude stfu, hes done more in the last week than the last dpr did ever. god damn bunch of pissy whiny pussies on here, THIS IS JUST THE Fng ROLLOUT SO Fng CHILLOUT
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bho4ever on August 25, 2013, 09:42 pm
Will you be doing away with transaction history for digital or lotto purchases, or at least separating them? I'm sure it's much easier said than done to separate the transactions.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: darkmagic65 on August 25, 2013, 09:43 pm
An error was encountered

We could not process your request
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Orpheus99 on August 25, 2013, 09:47 pm
DPR:  <<Once we get this pushed out and running smoothly, we'll move on to the next phase which will be looking at giving vendors more tools to judge buyers and protect themselves from scamming buyers.>>

I just hope when you do this that buyers will be able to see their records.  Otherwise, a rogue vendor could ruin the reputation of a buyer and the buyer would have no recourse.  Let's face it, there are some small percentage of vendors who are rude,  unreasonable and even hostile.  There needs to be some way to contest unfair labeling of a buyer as a scammer. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 25, 2013, 09:51 pm
Getting an error when i log in
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bitdoctor on August 25, 2013, 09:54 pm
well, what do you think?  find any bugs?

If the locked in feedback becomes a major problem, maybe we'll allow buyers to increase it later, but not decrease.

This seems a good way to mitigate emotional feedbackers. I say put it in place right away.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 25, 2013, 09:55 pm
PROPOSED SOLUTION to the problems listed in this page: permit the customer to amend their most recent review of any particular Vendor only.

So a Scammer / Rival Vendor can't go through pages of listings changing things to 1/5, but will still have the ability to change a recent review - be it to improve (because the Vendor has reassured them) or to drop it (after testing the gear was weak/bad, etc.).
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 25, 2013, 09:55 pm
Will you be doing away with transaction history for digital or lotto purchases, or at least separating them? I'm sure it's much easier said than done to separate the transactions.

there should be a separate rating for free/low items...  any orders less than $30 shouldn't allow that feedback to hit the main score

vendors can still generate traffic and get their name out that way but it shouldn't mask ratings of real sales.
a lot of buyers view that stuff as sketchy anyway so this can show both sides of the vendor easily

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 09:59 pm
New system looking good. :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: shinzon76 on August 25, 2013, 10:02 pm

This seems a good way to mitigate emotional feedbackers. I say put it in place right away.

Why would this mitigate emotional feedback? By definition, someone posting their review in the heat of passion, will not be thinking logically enough to realize (or care) that their feedback is immutable. All this change means is that feedback written with ample emotion and little thought will stand for all time.

I like the idea of only being able to change the most recent feedback for a particular vendor. If the buyer came back, obviously they were happy with the previous transaction and consider it closed.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ModerationIsK3y on August 25, 2013, 10:04 pm
Obviously, vendors who have problems that need to be solved on a regular basis have a BIG problem with this update.
On the other hand, vendors who have consistent great service with great product have little complaint.
I suggest that until another system is rolled out, vendors strive to obtain 5/5 on each sale. PERIOD.

I believe that is the intent of this change.

This is much easier said than done. Let me share a recent story.

I've been stocking some of the best ketamine that I ever have had my hands on.  The ketamine crowd, for me at least, is very picky... hard to please. They will often straight up interrogate me before ordering and they love to test you gear via reagents all the time. They are straight up connoisseurs. That being said, I do exceptionally well with them.

So. "Chad" orders a gram of my ket. He leaves a 2/5 review saying how fast the delivery was and the stealth was great. The product was very disappointing though..... So I get to the bottom of this.. Chad has never done ketamine before. Didn't know how to weight it out, doesn't have a drug scale, does not know what a reagent test is, and he is eating the ketamine and redosing every 1.5 hours by eating more ketamine. For some reason.... he couldn't reach the k-hole before having an upset stomach....

Tell me what I did wrong here. I sent out awesome product. My stealth is great, and I nailed his first class delivery with the right speed.

I'm going to chalk this up to his noobery. I'm not too happy about that.... but it's okay. I had a discussion with him. I wanted to set him well on his way to meeting his spirit journey goals by giving him good information and accommodating in a different way.

I wouldn't even talk to this noob if i was locked at a 2/5 rating.

Good point, but far from the "norm" in transactions, however, an easy solution would be to be able to mark this transaction as "out of norm", for which you are allowed 2 per month, or some such limit, and does not apply to your overall rating.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 25, 2013, 10:05 pm
Will you be doing away with transaction history for digital or lotto purchases, or at least separating them? I'm sure it's much easier said than done to separate the transactions.

they are already weighted by their price and the title of the listing and price is displayed right next to the review.  there is no need for this.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bho4ever on August 25, 2013, 10:08 pm
okay sounds good, will check it out later. thanks for the reply
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Locker on August 25, 2013, 10:09 pm
Am currently unable to use the site, either I get error messages or the site takes 3+ minutes to load.
Am likely just going to have to wait for the site to stabilize a little bit after going back up.

Locker.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Orpheus99 on August 25, 2013, 10:11 pm
Yes, same here.  The site takes forever to load and half of the time I just get an error message.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Hornswaggled on August 25, 2013, 10:25 pm
While I'm all for the fact that feedback can't be edited, it would still be useful, from a buyer's perspective, to be able to view the feedback I've left.

Can you please bring that option back?

Peace.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: CrystalBurns on August 25, 2013, 10:26 pm
What about the steroid sellers who need at least 4 weeks for the customer to know whether there product is legit or not?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: fantastiqfox on August 25, 2013, 10:27 pm
Hi DPR,

The only major issue I have noticed after the immediate update is I can no longer access 'View feedback' from my vendor profile under 'Account' settings. I feel this option is still important as it seems the only means a vendor has to easily identify which buyers left which feedback.

Also, I think everyone should give the 'locked feedback' option a chance.
[[Proposed Improvement]]
Maybe provide a function for vendors to see a customers 'Average feedback for other vendors' score when purchasing so vendors can better assess which customers they would like to do business with. This way, it'll really make a customer think more seriously about the feedback score they are willing to leave and only want to leave negative ratings for real issues or concerns.

If a customer is constantly leaving an average of 3 or less feedback over many transactions, it allows the vendor to see maybe the customer is either really unlucky in his/her purchases, or the customer is just unable to adequately follow vendor profiles/continues to make poor decisions when ordering or receiving packages. A vendor would want to stay away from this type of customer even for security reasons alone. Then a customer with an average feedback score of 3.5+ over many transactions, will likely be more trusted as an intelligible buyer/customer who is capable of taking the right precautions when ordering and is capable of following the advice listed in vendor profiles.

Of course another system allowing vendors to rate their customers would work similarly to this as well, but what I proposed above could be more of a temporary solution since it seems it would be less complex to implement.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: frank-butcher24 on August 25, 2013, 10:29 pm
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/9c606585a7

This guy likes to buy cocaine from Dr Col with remarkable frequency (scroll to see the 5/5 feedbacks).

Which sort of highlights a criticism, maybe. Could this guy be profiled in some way, or something? If that was me, even though I am anonymous, I don't think I'd like seeing my stats and pretty serious coke habit being there for all to see.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 25, 2013, 10:36 pm
The fact that buyers can't change their bad rating of a vendor to a good rating will certainly change the dynamics.  Once poor feedback is left the vendor has much less incentive to work things out with that buyer.  Hopefully the feedback page will at least say "this is final and cannot be changed."

Vendors with perfect scores will now become a thing of the past and I think that's actually a good thing.  Vendors with 100% 5/5 feedback were just asking to get scammed by extortionists.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: thelorax on August 25, 2013, 10:39 pm
HEYYY DPR READ THISSS!!

can you but the country that the buyer bought from in the venders feedback? i know it sounds crazy but when dealing with international venders
it would really help people out!!

if not thanks for everything i got to check some pages out real quick and it is really cool.. glad you guys are always trying to improve..
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 25, 2013, 10:40 pm
I was fine with the system before, the new feedback system bulks up the page too much and only fits 5 feedbacks. If it were me leave the old layout just give vendors the chance to rate buyers. I also saw that vendors can change there alias in settings. Either way to all there own, il stick around none the less.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bho4ever on August 25, 2013, 10:43 pm
Can a vendor see what item(s) a customer has purchased from another vendor? I assume they can't but how do i know unless i ask or become a vendor :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Shaggy Shaman on August 25, 2013, 10:44 pm
Yes! Thank you so much, DPR!

SS
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 10:48 pm
Can a vendor see what item(s) a customer has purchased from another vendor? I assume they can't but how do i know unless i ask or become a vendor :)

No they can't. That would be bad. Imagine if uncle LEO was a vendor and can see what other people bought from other vendors. Yikes.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: TheIndigoChild on August 25, 2013, 10:48 pm
PLEASE switch it back to most recent buyer's reviews are first.. no matter what bad reviews will effect your over all stat's being able to see most recently reviews shows you how the vendor is doing to date, when was the last time they had a finalized sale and to be able to check for their consistency, since alot of vendors ( and buyers) arent active on the forums at least you could dig through reviews before you made your decision.... This is literally only a good system for vendors with low amount of sales.. I dont know why any one would think its a good idea... the old review system was great, condenced, gave you all the info you needed and was straight to the point.. Who cares if someone's spent 10,000$ reviews my product? Plenty of vendor's have buyer accounts with 10,000+$ spent and can just buy an item from a competitor write a nasty review and they'll be the top! Also it makes it even easier for them to target you because they can see what all the past buyer's have spent  ( the top review ones) and just use account with higher purcahsing stats..

There is no good way to change the old system, it was great and worked well. We're used to it and this will only cause more confusion.. Also people browsing on smaller screens will not fair well with this clumpy new interface...

I appreciate the improvements but this isnt one that was needed, as for vendor tools Im sure we'd all greatly appreciate that seeing as that is adding stuff not changing preexisting dynamics that already work well..


PS. This will allow scamming vendors to get away with their scams easier! I was able to tell a scammer from a non scammer vendor from miles away.. now I dont even know how that willbe achieved! Please DPR I know you and your staff worked hard on this update but please reconsider them!

-Indigo.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 25, 2013, 10:50 pm
i like being able to edit my ratings.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Fear The Reaper on August 25, 2013, 10:50 pm
Cheers DPR
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: atlas on August 25, 2013, 10:51 pm
Great updates boss
SR is only getting better with time  8)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 25, 2013, 10:53 pm
actually i didnt see any reason to fix something that wasn't broken.
i agree with those that want to make fe against the rules for buyer with perfect stats and beenn a member for a certain amount of time. and if a vendor refuses to sell to those people they will have their accounts suspended.
FE should be frowned upon. too many vendors lately are requiring it and they will continue to do it as long as its allowed and people actually do it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SpaceAce on August 25, 2013, 10:53 pm
I guess it's down again? I had a login screen now it's back to Maintenance.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DtownsFinest on August 25, 2013, 10:58 pm
I havent been able to get on for 6 hrs!! I really hope this is back up soon. I need to place some orders tonight, so I can have my much needed goods early in the week. Just my luck
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Locker on August 25, 2013, 11:04 pm
The one night I want to order the site goes down, lol.
Guess I'm just going to have to wait till tomorrow...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Juggernog on August 25, 2013, 11:08 pm
I havent been able to get on for 6 hrs!! I really hope this is back up soon. I need to place some orders tonight, so I can have my much needed goods early in the week. Just my luck
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 25, 2013, 11:11 pm
People what the hell does changing feedback have to do with scammers? They can still extort you even if feedback is permanent. The only difference now that feedback is permanent is that hot headed buyers might go off and permanently screw over a vendor and DPR has stated that he may allow feedback to be changed only if its higher.

Feedback is buyers power and some buyers are gonna abuse it, Shipping is vendors power and some vendors are gonna abuse it. Theres nothing DPR can do to change that except provide more transparency. At least if feedback is a one-shot deal then vendors dont have to worry about competitors/trolls stealth 1'ing them later on when they're not looking.


Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Fear The Reaper on August 25, 2013, 11:13 pm
Site's back up all, try again...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 11:14 pm
PLEASE switch it back to most recent buyer's reviews are first.. no matter what bad reviews will effect your over all stat's being able to see most recently reviews shows you how the vendor is doing to date, when was the last time they had a finalized sale and to be able to check for their consistency, since alot of vendors ( and buyers) arent active on the forums at least you could dig through reviews before you made your decision.... This is literally only a good system for vendors with low amount of sales.. I dont know why any one would think its a good idea... the old review system was great, condenced, gave you all the info you needed and was straight to the point.. Who cares if someone's spent 10,000$ reviews my product? Plenty of vendor's have buyer accounts with 10,000+$ spent and can just buy an item from a competitor write a nasty review and they'll be the top! Also it makes it even easier for them to target you because they can see what all the past buyer's have spent  ( the top review ones) and just use account with higher purcahsing stats..

There is no good way to change the old system, it was great and worked well. We're used to it and this will only cause more confusion.. Also people browsing on smaller screens will not fair well with this clumpy new interface...

I appreciate the improvements but this isnt one that was needed, as for vendor tools Im sure we'd all greatly appreciate that seeing as that is adding stuff not changing preexisting dynamics that already work well..


PS. This will allow scamming vendors to get away with their scams easier! I was able to tell a scammer from a non scammer vendor from miles away.. now I dont even know how that willbe achieved! Please DPR I know you and your staff worked hard on this update but please reconsider them!

-Indigo.

I'm going to defend DPR on this one.

With just a few clicks, a buyer can access latest feedback, or sort it by bad feedback, etc. The buyer can also get a better picture because they can see the type of buyer leaving what kind of feedback. Newbie buyer leaving bad feedback doesn't mean as much as an established buyer leaving bad feedback.

If a buyer is afraid of being selectively scammed, the buyer can look at negative feedback and see if only low stat buyers are getting the shaft and then they will know not to FE.

DPR's new system is full of meta data that both new and savvy buyers can use to their advantage.

Study it some more when the site is up and you'll see that it's a very good system.

I'm confident that the weaknesses can be addressed by SR staff. Especially now that feedback is permanent, I'm sure DPR will have some sort of feedback grievance division which will allow buyers and vendors to adjust/remove unwarranted feedback upon reviewing some sort of evidence. But bad feedback doesn't have as much damaging weight as it once did. So the angst about being left bad feedback should wane a bit. And as vendors see how the new system works, they will make adjustments accordingly.

So let's all give it a least a week, take notes and we'll compare notes and see what if anything we all might suggest that needs a tweak here or there.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: chikkenstorm on August 25, 2013, 11:15 pm
I'm back in.
Not sure how I feel (as a buyer) about not being able to change (or even see) my feedback. I always leave 5/5 unless there's an issue that can't be resolved, but that doesn't mean the textual part is always top-notch. Sometimes when I read it back, I realize it could be interpreted in a mean way and/or is unfair to the vendor. So in that case I change it.
How about we're still able to change the text, just not the rating? And/or be able to change the (full) review within the next 48 hours? That way sellers have at least a chance to deal with emotional feedback, without risking a vendor lining up orders and then all of a sudden change them to a 1/5.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 25, 2013, 11:15 pm
I thought the review system was just fine the way that it was, but I also thought the idea of integrating buyers stats with their reviews was kinda neat. However, it seems that doing so appears to clutter up the vendors page and there were only 5 reviews I saw that didn't seem to be very recent at all. If I had to pick, I'd say go back to the way things were. They seemed to be working just fine, for me at least.

We should have two SR's, one for vendors and one for buyers.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Issuvi on August 25, 2013, 11:15 pm
The danger of destroying things in the name of making them better is a constant worry -- this is well known to anyone who has dealt with the American & Australian tax codes (particularly, in the latter case, since 2007).  I have thought SR's review system works great; could it be better?  Why not, but don't burn the return ticket until the new system has shown its worth.

There will be flaws to any system, of course, and any system will have loopholes that can be discovered if someone is taking the time to discover them.

I have to say that, so far, it doesn't look like the "discussion" boards attached to vendors/listings in the last upgrade are being used -- at least, I cannot see much activity right there (not yet, anyway). 

On the upside, if the forums are being made somewhat redundant by the on-site review system, does this mean that the (onerous, but not clearly avoidable) 50 post limit for newbies is going to be revised?  If reviews are on-site and the on-site bot avoidance is OK, can this hurdle be taken down?  I have often thought it a necessary evil that should be disposed of as quickly as wise. 

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 25, 2013, 11:20 pm
dumbest fucking idea putting buyer stats with feedback and other useless shit like price and quanitity

buyers have to judge a seller based on their rating out 5.0 but then judge the validity of someones feedback by looking at their buyer stats. so fucking pointless
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: dipset on August 25, 2013, 11:21 pm
I welcome and appreciate change, as well as some of these recent feedback/review reworkings. However, making the feedback and once and only, permanent thing is imho a poor decision. Futhermore, I truly feel that this and some other recent changes have/will/do only benefit the vendors while leaving buyers more exposed to scamming (be it selective or outright). I have been getting the feeling that the new DPR and SR as a whole (as an organization)  are tipping the scales and are siding more with vendors (even scamming vendors) just to get their commission cut with little regard to the buyers. I realize that without good vendors and products this site is worthless, but what about the buyers? Particularly new, naive ones that are unsure about how the whole process works. Finally, two of my relevant contributions to the new 'discuss' platform were removed seemingly by SR admins with zero explanation. I was civil and polite, although they may have been deemed "inflammatory." But who exactly gets to decide this? Do you guys (admins) just consider anything the vendor doesn't like as "inflammatory." Because that was/is the impression I am getting. And to clarify, both comments were to explain what I truly believed to be selective scam attmepts. One vendor has been recently exposed but has benefited from the "do-over" that the new removal of the 100 rating creates. The other was a top vendor who claims to not sell adulterated product but from my own orders, and the comments of others, it seems very clear that the vendor in question does "play some games" with buyers. Please help me feel like I am not being disregarded as a buyer in favor of vendors. With the money I am pumping into this site regularly (close to 20k in less than a year, I know that's not that much really, but it ain't nothing) I want to feel like I have a voice, as quiet as it may be.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DrMDA on August 25, 2013, 11:23 pm
I absolutely hate this new feedback. It takes up WAY too much blank space and leaves the page very cluttered.

I also do not like as a vendor that I can no longer see who left me the bad review. Where is the "view feedback" button? I can no longer blacklist my competition's aliases who are just going to leave bad reviews for biz reasons???? That's unacceptable.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 25, 2013, 11:25 pm
This will take some getting used to but I see some good things about the new feedback system.  I also see some things that might need changed.  Some of you have already pointed out what I'm about to say.  What I do like is the fact that you can still sort by time or "freshness" as it's called to view feedback in the same order that was used to.  It's also nice to easily see which item the person bought without having to hover your mouse over top "item" like you used to.  On the down side though not being able to edit reviews is a drag.  For one vendor that I deal with a lot I always FE and write "FE will update later" and then I provide an update once I receive the item.  Or just the other day I had to run out the door so I finalized and wrote something like "Will update later when I have more time but finalizing" and then later I'd go back and write up the review (yes I'm actually one of the buyers who goes back and updates lol).  See it doesn't matter to me the buyer when I finalize and write the reviews but it does matter to the vendor.  A lot of them say stuff like finalize within 24 hours of receiving or I'll black list you or not do business again with you.  But what if we need more time to try the product and just want to release coins at that point? 

Oh and one more positive I wanted to mention.  I REALLY like how it groups all the 5 out of 5 reviews together and then 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 5 and so on.  Because as a buyer I'm most curious about seeing what the bad reviews have been.  I won't sit and read 5 out of 5 reviews all day because a lot of them are cookie cutter and nothing but good stuff.  There is some information to be gathered amongst the 5 out of 5's, but there's def. important information in the 4 out of 5 all the way down to the 1 out of 5 reviews.  As a buyer I really want to see what caused another buyer to rate less than a 5 out of 5.  Those reviews are most important to me in my decision to use a vendor.  For example, I was going to order green from one vendor until I read a bad review saying something like "opened up the mailbox and I got hit with a huge wiff of weed."  I'm extra cautious so that was enough to steer me away.  Before I had to dig for that information and now I don't have to.  So thank you!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: maximumoutput on August 25, 2013, 11:29 pm
HEYYY DPR READ THISSS!!

can you but the country that the buyer bought from in the venders feedback? i know it sounds crazy but when dealing with international venders
it would really help people out!!

if not thanks for everything i got to check some pages out real quick and it is really cool.. glad you guys are always trying to improve..


I have always thought that would be a good idea, like an option to let your country be revealed in feedback. Would be interested in seeing a reply to this.

To give an example of why it would be helpful, when I'm looking at an international vendors page after i make a transaction you see people saying how many days it took to arrive, but this isn't any help to the buyer if they don't state where they're ordering from lol.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 11:29 pm
People what the hell does changing feedback have to do with scammers? They can still extort you even if feedback is permanent. The only difference now that feedback is permanent is that hot headed buyers might go off and permanently screw over a vendor and DPR has stated that he may allow feedback to be changed only if its higher.

Feedback is buyers power and some buyers are gonna abuse it, Shipping is vendors power and some vendors are gonna abuse it. Theres nothing DPR can do to change that except provide more transparency. At least if feedback is a one-shot deal then vendors dont have to worry about competitors/trolls stealth 1'ing them later on when they're not looking.




Good points. Good points.

I have a feeling that soon feedback will be both buyers and vendors power. And by that I mean soon vendors will be able to leave feedback for buyers.

Regrettably, I was a bit harsh on DPR with regards to the new discussion feature but thought it through and realized that its positives far outweigh its negatives in the long run. I can see that the changes he's making were pretty well thought out and must have been in the works for a while. So my trust and faith in DPR is as strong as ever. And I can't think of a time when he's either dropped the ball or let us down. He's a brilliant, well reasoned and forward thinking dude (or dudette).

Long live SR. Long live DPR.

We owe DPR our faith, our confidence and most importantly, our patience.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 25, 2013, 11:33 pm
It seems alot of time was spent on this, i liked it alot better before. So have alot of the other vendors.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 25, 2013, 11:44 pm
BTW everyone,

Atlantis has a permanent feedback system as well and it has worked out well so far.

In fact, I was reading about a vendor who was in a dispute with a buyer. The buyer lost the dispute because he failed to prove whatever it was he claimed. So of course a person who loses a dispute would leave negative feedback. And so they did.

But get this...

The vendor contacted Atlantis admins and got the 1 star feedback removed. And that makes sense since the buyer failed to prove his claim and lost the dispute. The buyer shouldn't be able to leave feedback.

Seeing how reasonable DPR is, I'm confident that DPR would implement a similar policy that if buyer loses a resolution case, they can't leave feedback or in the case of a partial refund, can only leave feedback that is commensurate with the amount of refund. So say the buyer gets a partial refund of 50% to 75%. Then they can only leave a 3/5 or 4/5 of higher, respectively.  Or if they only get a 25% refund, then they can only leave a minimum of 2/5 or higher. Or something like that.

Point is, have faith that DPR will work things out fairly for both sides of the bitcoin.

Exciting times ahead for SR.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bho4ever on August 25, 2013, 11:45 pm
Can a vendor see what item(s) a customer has purchased from another vendor? I assume they can't but how do i know unless i ask or become a vendor :)

No they can't. That would be bad. Imagine if uncle LEO was a vendor and can see what other people bought from other vendors. Yikes.

I figured that, just had to ask :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: White 0ut on August 25, 2013, 11:47 pm
Good Guy DPR...

Members suggest something....

He actually implements it!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 25, 2013, 11:51 pm
Not being able to see my previous feedback sucks balls though.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 12:17 am
I hope this is like the "new" coco-cola. the change fails and goes back to the old way.
sorry, not feeling it. the old system worked and was better than the the other sites. it was easy and efficient.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: HEATFan on August 26, 2013, 12:18 am
I have one problem with this. I had an order which I FE'd on that has not arrived and it doesn't look like it will. I haven't spoken to the vendor yet and I am expecting he will refund me as his vendor page states that he had some trouble getting a few orders out and they will be refunded. So most likely, I won't have any problems. But lets see I never hear from him... since I already finalized and left feedback along the lines of "FE will update on arrival", I can no longer change that feedback to a 1/5 in case my problems are not resolved. So theoretically, this vendor can now take my money and not suffer any rating consequence if he chooses not to refund me. Food for thought.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 26, 2013, 12:23 am
I have one problem with this. I had an order which I FE'd on that has not arrived and it doesn't look like it will. I haven't spoken to the vendor yet and I am expecting he will refund me as his vendor page states that he had some trouble getting a few orders out and they will be refunded. So most likely, I won't have any problems. But lets see I never hear from him... since I already finalized and left feedback along the lines of "FE will update on arrival", I can no longer change that feedback to a 1/5 in case my problems are not resolved. So theoretically, this vendor can now take my money and not suffer any rating consequence if he chooses not to refund me. Food for thought.

You dont have to leave feedback straight away. Not much u can do now though.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: atlas on August 26, 2013, 12:23 am
mrouid, top 1% seller on the road asked to post this since he doesn't have 50 posts in the forums:

I can't post this in the main discussion because I haven't posted enough on the forums before but this is worth posting about.

I'm very concerned about this new feedback system and consider this a gross violation of buyer / seller privacy. 

Wayyyy too much information is shown about transactions and buyer information.  With precise information given about every feedback's buyer stats, transaction amounts, etc it's easy for an outside observer to correlate every transaction that a buyer (as well as seller) has ever made, deduce the scope of business being done by buyers and sellers and provide nice evidence to be used in court against them.

This is even the case for "private" transactions that I'm sure neither buyers nor sellers want details of published.   To make matters worse the largest private transactions are given the highest weight and published at the very top of the feedback page.  I'm sure these buyers DON'T want the precise date and amount they spent on $20,000+ orders published for the world to see along with every other order they have ever placed with every seller they have bought from.  There is a reason we do private listings.  They are meant to be PRIVATE!!

The publishing of this information was incredibly wreckless and inconsiderate on the part of DPR and leads me to question if we can continue doing business on his site.  This is after-all a site where highly illegal activity is engaged in and there is an expectation that user data will be used responsibly.    Even Amazon / eBay are more conscientious about protecting the privacy of their users.

Please can anyone re-post this on the main page so that these major security concerns can be addresses by those in charge.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sellitall99 on August 26, 2013, 12:24 am
I hope this is like the "new" coco-cola. the change fails and goes back to the old way.
sorry, not feeling it. the old system worked and was better than the the other sites. it was easy and efficient.

+1
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 12:28 am
Will you be doing away with transaction history for digital or lotto purchases, or at least separating them? I'm sure it's much easier said than done to separate the transactions.

they are already weighted by their price and the title of the listing and price is displayed right next to the review.  there is no need for this.

I think people would like to quickly see if a vendor has a high % of freebies/cheap sales compared to regular orders. 
Not just the weighted rating where 200 freebies and one real order looks the same or is better than someone with 30 real orders

just my two biased cents since I think freebies and cheapies are a negative for the road

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 12:31 am
mrouid, top 1% seller on the road asked to post this since he doesn't have 50 posts in the forums:

I can't post this in the main discussion because I haven't posted enough on the forums before but this is worth posting about.

I'm very concerned about this new feedback system and consider this a gross violation of buyer / seller privacy. 

Wayyyy too much information is shown about transactions and buyer information.  With precise information given about every feedback's buyer stats, transaction amounts, etc it's easy for an outside observer to correlate every transaction that a buyer (as well as seller) has ever made, deduce the scope of business being done by buyers and sellers and provide nice evidence to be used in court against them.

This is even the case for "private" transactions that I'm sure neither buyers nor sellers want details of published.   To make matters worse the largest private transactions are given the highest weight and published at the very top of the feedback page.  I'm sure these buyers DON'T want the precise date and amount they spent on $20,000+ orders published for the world to see along with every other order they have ever placed with every seller they have bought from.  There is a reason we do private listings.  They are meant to be PRIVATE!!

The publishing of this information was incredibly wreckless and inconsiderate on the part of DPR and leads me to question if we can continue doing business on his site.  This is after-all a site where highly illegal activity is engaged in and there is an expectation that user data will be used responsibly.    Even Amazon / eBay are more conscientious about protecting the privacy of their users.

Please can anyone re-post this on the main page so that these major security concerns can be addresses by those in charge.

displaying stealthed items was indeed a mistake and has been corrected.  regarding the info being displayed, I have to disagree unless someone can demonstrate how it can be used against anyone.  Reviewers can use an alias and are instructed to do so which decouples their account from their reveiws.  All old reviews are given an "alias removed" title for just this reason.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Divo on August 26, 2013, 12:35 am
So basically I'm just reiterating what others have criticized so far.  I really don't like the look of the new feedback layout, it is clunky and clumsy looking and only fits 4-5 reviews on the front page before having to "click to see more."  I don't really care all that much about other buyer's stats when reading feedback and this is information about someone that really, I feel, only vendors should be able to see, not the entire site.  I realize that your alias is hidden, but it could still be used to determine a history of ordering by crawling through feedback and seeing all the ones left that have X orders for X amount with X vendors at X account age at a given moment.  Yes, I realize this doesn't necessarily give an identity, but it's still loose information.

While I think the few feedback sorting options implemented are a nice start, I do not like when I sort feedback by "freshness" that it still segregates them by score.  When I'm looking at recent feedback, it's to get a snapshot of the vendors recent activity to see if they have had a lot of positive or negative feedback.  Now I have to glance at every single segregated section, look at the dates and try and line them up in my mind.  It was much easier to do this before with just being able to see the most recent feedbacks on the front page grouped together regardless of score.  Now with only being able to see 4-5 reviews on the front page, it's much more work for a buyer to determine if a vendor has had recent problems. 

I'm also concerned about not being able to view feedback I've already left, as it helps me remember which vendors I liked and which I didn't.  Though I'm not a vendor, I feel concern for them as well with the locked feedback system.  It puts them in a difficult situation dealing with immature, rude or just scammer buyers who are going to leave impulsive feedback and then not able to change it.  What incentive is a vendor going to have for trying to correct a situation if the feedback can't be adjusted to reflect that they worked it out?  I read the thread and see it's being considered to change it so you can increase feedback but not lower it.  Ok, so then when buyers are asked to FE, I think it will be the natural impulse to FE leaving a 1/5 feedback in case the transaction turns out to be a disaster, knowing that you can always raise it up to a 5/5 later if things work out.  Certainly wouldn't leave a 5/5 when FE'ing knowing that I couldn't lower it if things turned bad.  Are vendors really going to be ok with this trend?  What buyer is actually going to a FE with a 5/5 under this new system?

Ok, those are just my intitial thoughts after reading through the thread.  Sure I'll think of other things and may add them later.   
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on August 26, 2013, 12:39 am
These new changes have a high potential of becoming a major security risk.

If our community was based around the legal distribution of lets say, idk..baseball hats, this would be a great new system. Unfortunately, that is not the case. We can only hope for the best i suppose.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: guacamolly on August 26, 2013, 12:40 am
The new features are great, my only concern is maybe buyers won't know right away how to leave a review, I've already had a buyer message me asking  where he could leave one. I'm sure after a few weeks everyone will catch on though
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Fusion 3 on August 26, 2013, 12:43 am
Please change to the old ways, there was nutting wrong with the old feedback system
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 12:45 am

displaying stealthed items was indeed a mistake and has been corrected.  regarding the info being displayed, I have to disagree unless someone can demonstrate how it can be used against anyone.  Reviewers can use an alias and are instructed to do so which decouples their account from their reveiws.  All old reviews are given an "alias removed" title for just this reason.

can you just give a buyer rank instead of stats?   make some algo up that weighs things to get a rough ballpark score (noob, solid, all-star, time-waster, etc)

then it can be one line to make things smaller and also not give out anything exact which is sketching people out
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Mr Lucy on August 26, 2013, 12:53 am
Ideas:

1) When scrolling through reviews on a vendor page, for example, 5/5 review section, you may click on the next page (1, 2, "3" .. last), but when you scroll it a bit too far to those 4/5 or 3/5 rating pages, and you overlook or accidentally click on the next page(1 ,"2", 3 .. last), then the whole page refreshes.. This rests the page number on the previous section back to ("1", 2, 3 .. last). This is frustrating.

We should be able to be on different pages (within a tab) for each 5/5, 4/5, ect. review section at the same time without resting the previous ones you were on, before.

2) Review section should include where mails were sent to, as this is more relevant for a buyer to know rather than what other people's buy stats are.. It can't help if 100 Australian buyers rate 1/5 on a vendor for non arrivals, if there is 100% success within Europe.

I hope people get what i am going at :) Thank you OP
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 26, 2013, 12:54 am
This feedback system opens up buyers to a variety of new attacks.

Someone scraping the site will be able to reconstruct buyer purchase histories. Imagine a pseudonymous buyer with 10 purchases and $500 spent. A few days later there's a review on a $50 product from someone with 11 purchases and $550 spent. A week later on a product that costs $125 there's a review from someone with 12 purchases and $675 spent. User age (conveniently specified to the day) will further confirm this is the same person.

So what? You say. Nobody knows who it is. Then the attacker turns to the forum and looks for reviews on those products, during the same time periods. Stylometry (the use of specific adjectives, punctuation, etc.) will help link the forum user to the pseudonymous buyer. The attacker can employ a variety of social engineering tactics, now that he has a target with a verifiable purchasing history. He befriends the target, tells him he wants to start vending <target's favorite drug> and would like to test the waters with a custom listing for the target. Now he has an address that can be physically linked to the target.

If you have high stats, you should not be participating in this. If you have $50,000 in purchases over a year and you think LE doesn't care about you because you are a "buyer" and not a "vendor", you will eventually find yourself inside a jail cell.

It's unfortunate, because someone in the SR administration once told me that "obscurity is security". They seem to have forgotten that.


Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 26, 2013, 01:04 am
I won't be participating in this. Going forward, I'll simply finalize without leaving a review.

I also object to my buyer stats being retroactively exposed on past purchases without my knowledge or consent.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 01:14 am
I won't be participating in this. Going forward, I'll simply finalize without leaving a review.

I also object to my buyer stats being retroactively exposed on past purchases without my knowledge or consent.

they were not exposed under your name, but I agree now this was not the best way to transition.  What I am going to do is remove all old reviews from the new review format and put a legacy review table back on the vendor page.  Then only reviews written in the new system will be displayed in the new system.

I'm honestly surprised by the negative response to this.  The security issues being brought up are pretty tenuous.  These changes improve security for both buyers and sellers.  Under the old system, exact measurements of a vendor's sales volume and quantity could be scrapped over time.  Now, only transactions that reviews are written for can be scrapped and everyone has easy access to the info, not just the scrapers.  And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: livestr0ng on August 26, 2013, 01:18 am
I can't view my own feedback?! This is an outrage and I'm very disappointed. I've come to terms with not being able to change my feedback but not even being able to see it is a completely different thing.

Also, I think one should be able to see all the feedback one ever left of vendors. I understand if I don't have the ability to edit it (maybe after [1-2] weeks) but I'd like to see it. That way, if I know I've done business with a vendor before, I can look at my feedback and see what I had to say about him/her/them. This would especially be useful to get an ETA of the package. Additionally, when I do reviews for vendors on the forums, I provide a link in the feedback on SR. If I ever wanted to look at past reviews, I could easily just go to my feedback page and have all the links right there.

I can see how some people might want no record of their purchasing history available anywhere. To this I say make it an option for the user to enable/disable like the incognito feature. For bonus points, give the user options like "never keep any feedback", "keep feedback for 3 months", "keep feedback for 1 year", and "keep feedback forever".
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 01:18 am
get rid of the EXACT stats and put a buyer rank if you must (noob, solid, all-star, time-waster, etc)

people are SKETCHED out on seeing real stats blasted on the site
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SpaceAce on August 26, 2013, 01:19 am
Removing the old ones is a good idea. Some vendors might not
I won't be participating in this. Going forward, I'll simply finalize without leaving a review.

I also object to my buyer stats being retroactively exposed on past purchases without my knowledge or consent.

they were not exposed under your name, but I agree now this was not the best way to transition.  What I am going to do is remove all old reviews from the new review format and put a legacy review table back on the vendor page.  Then only reviews written in the new system will be displayed in the new system.

I'm honestly surprised by the negative response to this.  The security issues being brought up are pretty tenuous.  These changes improve security for both buyers and sellers.  Under the old system, exact measurements of a vendor's sales volume and quantity could be scrapped over time.  Now, only transactions that reviews are written for can be scrapped and everyone has easy access to the info, not just the scrapers.  And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.
I agree with removing the old ones. Would it be possible to have the choice of having your stats displayed on a review or not?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 01:32 am
I can't view my own feedback?! This is an outrage and I'm very disappointed. I've come to terms with not being able to change my feedback but not even being able to see it is a completely different thing.

Also, I think one should be able to see all the feedback one ever left of vendors. I understand if I don't have the ability to edit it (maybe after [1-2] weeks) but I'd like to see it. That way, if I know I've done business with a vendor before, I can look at my feedback and see what I had to say about him/her/them. This would especially be useful to get an ETA of the package. Additionally, when I do reviews for vendors on the forums, I provide a link in the feedback on SR. If I ever wanted to look at past reviews, I could easily just go to my feedback page and have all the links right there.

I can see how some people might want no record of their purchasing history available anywhere. To this I say make it an option for the user to enable/disable like the incognito feature. For bonus points, give the user options like "never keep any feedback", "keep feedback for 3 months", "keep feedback for 1 year", and "keep feedback forever".

I'm open to this, but why would you need to see the feedback you've left if you can't change it?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 01:42 am
I can't view my own feedback?! This is an outrage and I'm very disappointed. I've come to terms with not being able to change my feedback but not even being able to see it is a completely different thing.

Also, I think one should be able to see all the feedback one ever left of vendors. I understand if I don't have the ability to edit it (maybe after [1-2] weeks) but I'd like to see it. That way, if I know I've done business with a vendor before, I can look at my feedback and see what I had to say about him/her/them. This would especially be useful to get an ETA of the package. Additionally, when I do reviews for vendors on the forums, I provide a link in the feedback on SR. If I ever wanted to look at past reviews, I could easily just go to my feedback page and have all the links right there.

I can see how some people might want no record of their purchasing history available anywhere. To this I say make it an option for the user to enable/disable like the incognito feature. For bonus points, give the user options like "never keep any feedback", "keep feedback for 3 months", "keep feedback for 1 year", and "keep feedback forever".

I'm open to this, but why would you need to see the feedback you've left if you can't change it?

I like to read through them time to time and perhaps remind me to try something again.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: arananegro on August 26, 2013, 01:43 am
I do not want my past and future purchases available for the world to see. This is a business built on secrecy and anonymity.  The old way may have had flaws but it is much preferable to this.  This is way to much info for anyone to see.  It scares the hell out of me the things LE will be able to do and calculate with all these new statistics available to them.  I would much prefer to go back to old system . But if not them please let us chose to show no stats, even if it means leaving no review .  I like to leave review to support the vendor, but not at the cost of giving LE intel on me.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Leapfrogger on August 26, 2013, 01:45 am
I see another issue with the change that I don't think anyone's brought up yet.

Right now, when I click "Vendor reviews: Click here for more" on a certain top 4% vendor's page, I get a page that shows:

five 5/5 reviews
one 4/5 review
one 3/5 review
two 2/5 reviews
three 1/5 reviews

That's five positive reviews (5/5 rating) and seven negative reviews (4/5 rating or below) on the page, regardless of whether you sort by weight or freshness.

Now, keep in mind that this vendor has, after rounding, 100% positive feedback (5 stars); ratings of 4/5 or less are so rare that they register as 0%. But when skimming the front review page, one gets the impression that this vendor is a scam artist at best ("what as SCAM. DO NOT ORDER FROM THIS DUDE.") and a biological terrorist at worst ("Horrible Roll Disgusting Product 7 Hours of throwing up blood. Thanks. Assholes").

I appreciate the attempt at transparency in making negative reviews more easily accessible, but I think they're given too much prominence in this case. I shouldn't be confronted with every negative review ever written for a vendor when I go to their review page- I should have to dig a bit more. A good compromise might be to make the vendor rating breakdown in the upper right hand corner clickable- something like what Amazon does. That way you can still easily access negative reviews, but you're never given the psychological impression that a vendor with a 100% positive feedback rating has as many negative reviews as positive.

Just my .02 BTC. I appreciate all the hard work you put into this site, DPR.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 01:53 am
I've removed all old reviews from the new format.  That was a blunder, I will admit it.  The new format is opt-in only, so if you don't like it, just don't leave a review.  If you are comfortable having it displayed under an alias, then go ahead and leave a review.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 01:57 am


Now, keep in mind that this vendor has, after rounding, 100% positive feedback (5 stars); ratings of 4/5 or less are so rare that they register as 0%. But when skimming the front review page, one gets the impression that this vendor is a scam artist at best ("what as SCAM. DO NOT ORDER FROM THIS DUDE.") and a biological terrorist at worst ("Horrible Roll Disgusting Product 7 Hours of throwing up blood. Thanks. Assholes").


good points..  it was disorienting to me the first time I clicked around it too.  The big space on each review isn't helping this either.

anyway, an example why people are freaking out on stats:

Some buyers show over 1000 BTC spent in a year..   one I saw buying adderall.   So all FE has to do, is put out some cheap addy and wait till he see the big fish buy and leave feedback..  it will be only a small set of addresses they have to monitor at that point and look to see what else that person is up to since they have $100k to spend on drugs in a year.

hell, even blackmail from sketchy people will come after a few more different orders to cross track which address is the reviewer.

DPR has to have his sketch meter checked since it obviously isn't working here.   I bet 80% or more of the users are freaking as soon as they notice the changes and see those stats blasted everywhere
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 02:01 am
Until someone comes up with a better idea to stop the RAMPANT scamming, which is bound to destroy SR sooner or later, I say good job DPR and crew, I could not have come up with something better. I already like this DPR; much more proactive!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 02:04 am
I've removed all old reviews from the new format.  That was a blunder, I will admit it.  The new format is opt-in only, so if you don't like it, just don't leave a review.  If you are comfortable having it displayed under an alias, then go ahead and leave a review.

you just threw the baby out with the bathwater..  please just take a break, get some air, sleep on it for a few days and come back

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Leapfrogger on August 26, 2013, 02:06 am
I've removed all old reviews from the new format.  That was a blunder, I will admit it.  The new format is opt-in only, so if you don't like it, just don't leave a review.  If you are comfortable having it displayed under an alias, then go ahead and leave a review.

How about allowing users to opt out of having their stats published, with the caveat that their reviews would only be viewable when you sort by freshness instead of weight?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 26, 2013, 02:12 am
And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

Yes, that's a nice change. There should be an option after you finalize, on the page where you click a rating and leave feedback, to "skip feedback" or "leave no feedback".

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 02:17 am
And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

Yes, that's a nice change. There should be an option after you finalize, on the page where you click a rating and leave feedback, to "skip feedback" or "leave no feedback".

Could someone please kindly tell me why as a buyer I would I should be happy about this particular change?  When analyzing if I want to do business with a particular vendor, the single most important thing I rely on is the feedback from my peers.  Vendors with poor reviews and ratings simply don't earn my business.  Vendors with good reviews and ratings earn my business.  So why make reviews optional?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: cyanspore on August 26, 2013, 02:23 am
yay broccoli, you go!. I as a vendor rely on feedback to help people feel comfortable with my shrooms

btw, that's a nice tight bud in your avatar there :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 02:24 am
And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

Yes, that's a nice change. There should be an option after you finalize, on the page where you click a rating and leave feedback, to "skip feedback" or "leave no feedback".

there is, you'll see it on your next purchase.  this is also explained on the ratings and reviews wiki article.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 26, 2013, 02:24 am
And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

Yes, that's a nice change. There should be an option after you finalize, on the page where you click a rating and leave feedback, to "skip feedback" or "leave no feedback".

Could someone please kindly tell me why as a buyer I would I should be happy about this particular change?  When analyzing if I want to do business with a particular vendor, the single most important thing I rely on is the feedback from my peers.  Vendors with poor reviews and ratings simply don't earn my business.  Vendors with good reviews and ratings earn my business.  So why make reviews optional?

Feedback has always been optional.  If you didn't leave feedback after finalizing you could come back later and leave it.  Or you could never leave feedback.  One thing that is different now is that you can't change your feedback once you leave it.  That makes it important to make it clear to people that they don't have to immediately leave feedback since previously it wasn't obvious to everyone.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 02:26 am
And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

Yes, that's a nice change. There should be an option after you finalize, on the page where you click a rating and leave feedback, to "skip feedback" or "leave no feedback".

Could someone please kindly tell me why as a buyer I would I should be happy about this particular change?  When analyzing if I want to do business with a particular vendor, the single most important thing I rely on is the feedback from my peers.  Vendors with poor reviews and ratings simply don't earn my business.  Vendors with good reviews and ratings earn my business.  So why make reviews optional?

it obscures the size of a vendor's business, and leaves out frivolous reviews.  all ratings still count toward a vendor's score though of course.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: LoveUnderWill on August 26, 2013, 02:30 am
As a vendor how am I supposed to reach out to a customer who leaves a 1/5 review to see if the situation can be fixed of I dont know who they are? and for that matter how is a customer going to change their feedback if a misunderstanding causes them to leave a 1/5 and the vendor fixes the original issue.

I need a feedback page that lists them in the order received and who gave them. just a page on my account list by no means should that info be public I agree but taking that info from us is a HUGE CUSTOMER SERVICE NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 02:36 am
As a vendor how am I supposed to reach out to a customer who leaves a 1/5 review to see if the situation can be fixed of I dont know who they are? and for that matter how is a customer going to change their feedback if a misunderstanding causes them to leave a 1/5 and the vendor fixes the original issue.

I need a feedback page that lists them in the order received and who gave them. just a page on my account list by no means should that info be public I agree but taking that info from us is a HUGE CUSTOMER SERVICE NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!

No. One of the major problems this solves is buyer blackmail. Problem with the order? Take it to the resolution center, they will solve your problem, and you won't leave feedback. No more buyers finalizing leaving a "fucking vendor shorted me by a half!" then the vendor being forced to send 2x the original for the buyer to change  his feedback. I'm sick of this shit where being able to edit feedback is a tool used by scammers. Just ask the vendor GOLD what he thinks about buyers being able to change feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 02:38 am
I can't believe how dumb this thread has gotten

the big buyers with the highest weight on review will never review since they don't want to have a trail of their buying so you are left with a bunch of minnows from scamponds (vendor and buyer side) to spam the review boards.  There will be no counter weight since the big fish will hide

brilliant!!!!  what was the whole point of this again?     if you switch to a more opaque buyer rating instead of stats (no $$, dates, anything) you could have a compromise here

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: chimchu on August 26, 2013, 02:39 am
thanks for being so engaging DPR, and most of all working all day on a sunday for this true luxury we all get to take part in.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 02:40 am
I can't believe how dumb this thread has gotten

the big buyers with the highest weight on review will never review since they don't want to have a trail of their buying so you are left with a bunch of minnows from scamponds (vendor and buyer side) to spam the review boards.  There will be no counter weight since the big fish will hide

brilliant!!!!  what was the whole point of this again?     if you switch to a more opaque buyer rating instead of stats (no $$, dates, anything) you could have a compromise here

What are you talking about? In what way is a buyer at risk by having his stats displayed? Someone said LE could just set up shop and bust the big buyers...What? What exactly about the old way stopped them from doing that also?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Divo on August 26, 2013, 02:42 am
I can't view my own feedback?! This is an outrage and I'm very disappointed. I've come to terms with not being able to change my feedback but not even being able to see it is a completely different thing.

Also, I think one should be able to see all the feedback one ever left of vendors. I understand if I don't have the ability to edit it (maybe after [1-2] weeks) but I'd like to see it. That way, if I know I've done business with a vendor before, I can look at my feedback and see what I had to say about him/her/them. This would especially be useful to get an ETA of the package. Additionally, when I do reviews for vendors on the forums, I provide a link in the feedback on SR. If I ever wanted to look at past reviews, I could easily just go to my feedback page and have all the links right there.

I can see how some people might want no record of their purchasing history available anywhere. To this I say make it an option for the user to enable/disable like the incognito feature. For bonus points, give the user options like "never keep any feedback", "keep feedback for 3 months", "keep feedback for 1 year", and "keep feedback forever".

I'm open to this, but why would you need to see the feedback you've left if you can't change it?

Because some of us use our feedback to remember which vendors we liked and which we never want to purchase from again.

Also, something I thought of while reading through more of the thread since last post.  You say that leaving feedback is optional, so if we don't want our stats to show, to just opt-out, but don't we still have to leave a rating and doesn't this still show up?  Or if not, how are the vendors going to start feeling when none of us leave feedback/ratings anymore because we don't want our info displayed?  Not sure how this site is suppose to work when no one is comfortable leaving honest feedback anymore because it exposes some of our information.

Oh, and ouch, so now no vendors have any reviews listed under their pages until they get new ones?  It's like starting them all over again.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: thelorax on August 26, 2013, 02:45 am
Welp.. dpr sorry but ya blew it..

this change sucks.. wtf why would you delete everything?

imagine a guy is new.. right now.. he has nothing to base his shit on..
sure the vender has a good rating but maybe its cuz he refunds and packs dont show..

or maybe the product isnt good but the vender gave back some money..

idk.. this change blows.. at least the fact you deleted everything WTF?? ..

just really a waste of time.. shouldve left it how it was i guess. .since people complain about everything.. like me lol no but seriously
the only problem i have is that you deleted old post..

well ill go back to ordering drugs .. thanks for the website bruh
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 02:46 am
I can't believe how dumb this thread has gotten

the big buyers with the highest weight on review will never review since they don't want to have a trail of their buying so you are left with a bunch of minnows from scamponds (vendor and buyer side) to spam the review boards.  There will be no counter weight since the big fish will hide

brilliant!!!!  what was the whole point of this again?     if you switch to a more opaque buyer rating instead of stats (no $$, dates, anything) you could have a compromise here

What are you talking about? In what way is a buyer at risk by having his stats displayed? Someone said LE could just set up shop and bust the big buyers...What? What exactly about the old way stopped them from doing that also?


If you can't see it I will never ever do business with your kind.. seriously you are brain dead.

come back when you have a fucking clue.  And I hardly ever attack someone on a board but you are fucking dumb as nails on this

you are scary dumb to be in this business
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 02:48 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No reason to be hostile man. It was a honest question. I was not attacking you. And I wouldn't vend to you anyways. My products make asshole implode, and we don't want that happening now do we? Instead of explaining the problem, you just decided to insult someone. Arguments only exists because one party lacks the information the other party has. Now please, provide me with your information. Don't be a dickhead.

DPR.

Would it be possible to change the amount spent and purchases to a range?

For example, a buyers who has spent $175 could have stats that show "around $200." Buyer with with 9125 could show as " around 9100."

Same thing with number or purchases and everything else able to be identified.

Round all the numbers?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: psilocin on August 26, 2013, 02:53 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 26, 2013, 02:55 am
I can't view my own feedback?! This is an outrage and I'm very disappointed. I've come to terms with not being able to change my feedback but not even being able to see it is a completely different thing.

Also, I think one should be able to see all the feedback one ever left of vendors. I understand if I don't have the ability to edit it (maybe after [1-2] weeks) but I'd like to see it. That way, if I know I've done business with a vendor before, I can look at my feedback and see what I had to say about him/her/them. This would especially be useful to get an ETA of the package. Additionally, when I do reviews for vendors on the forums, I provide a link in the feedback on SR. If I ever wanted to look at past reviews, I could easily just go to my feedback page and have all the links right there.

I can see how some people might want no record of their purchasing history available anywhere. To this I say make it an option for the user to enable/disable like the incognito feature. For bonus points, give the user options like "never keep any feedback", "keep feedback for 3 months", "keep feedback for 1 year", and "keep feedback forever".

I'm open to this, but why would you need to see the feedback you've left if you can't change it?

I like reading my old reviews, but more than that I also use several vendors (and trying more all the time) and sometimes it's nice to read through previous reviews reminding me of ones to reuse.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Herbal Remedy on August 26, 2013, 02:56 am
I am still not entirely sure how the new system will work and what information will be open to the public, but I agree with the security concerns of others here.  Lets not forget that there are a lot of people that get paid huge sums of our tax money to stalk us, find us, and lock us in a cage for engaging in these voluntary transactions.  I really hope the new system will be as secure if not more secure and private than the old system.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Wadozo on August 26, 2013, 02:58 am
This feedback system opens up buyers to a variety of new attacks.

Someone scraping the site will be able to reconstruct buyer purchase histories. Imagine a pseudonymous buyer with 10 purchases and $500 spent. A few days later there's a review on a $50 product from someone with 11 purchases and $550 spent. A week later on a product that costs $125 there's a review from someone with 12 purchases and $675 spent. User age (conveniently specified to the day) will further confirm this is the same person.

So what? You say. Nobody knows who it is. Then the attacker turns to the forum and looks for reviews on those products, during the same time periods. Stylometry (the use of specific adjectives, punctuation, etc.) will help link the forum user to the pseudonymous buyer. The attacker can employ a variety of social engineering tactics, now that he has a target with a verifiable purchasing history. He befriends the target, tells him he wants to start vending <target's favorite drug> and would like to test the waters with a custom listing for the target. Now he has an address that can be physically linked to the target.

If you have high stats, you should not be participating in this. If you have $50,000 in purchases over a year and you think LE doesn't care about you because you are a "buyer" and not a "vendor", you will eventually find yourself inside a jail cell.

It's unfortunate, because someone in the SR administration once told me that "obscurity is security". They seem to have forgotten that.

I have to agree with astor. Some great points made. Too much information is now publicly available for all to see. Out of sight, out of mind. +1  :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 03:03 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Wadozo on August 26, 2013, 03:07 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

That's an excellent idea DPR. The buyer then has the call.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: postrex on August 26, 2013, 03:10 am
[...]right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.
I like this.

How about levels of paranoia when leaving feedback ?  e.g.:
- Show Name? Yes/No/Alias
- Show Stats? Yes/Generalized/No

I think the key to buyer stats should be a way to 'generalize' them, so they don't so easily link purchases from the same buyer together.  Say, ranges like "$1000-5000", and "10-50" purchases, would make the buyer stats equally as useful, while maintaining the anonymity that people seem to be worried about losing.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 03:13 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

Sorry boss. If you do that, this update will be for nothing. Everyone here who claims this puts buyers at risk has yet to describe one actual scenario where it really would. Let people be pissed off, who cares? SR has a serious problem, this is a very good fix, and until someone can provide why this is a security risk over the old way, leave it and let them move to alantis.

The only people that should be pissed off about this update is scammers and vendors who leave fake feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 03:14 am
[...]right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

I think the key to buyer stats should be a way to 'generalize' them, so they don't so easily link purchases from the same buyer together.  Say, ranges like "$1000-5000", and "10-50" purchases, would make the buyer stats equally as useful, while maintaining the anonymity that people seem to be worried about losing.

Bing bing bing! dpr this will hush everyone up and is the answer.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 03:17 am
Guys, go to http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/account/settings and choice an alias. Dont use your SR Name.

I dont like how all the reviews got deleted!! Thats how I choice who to buy from along with the forums!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: modziw on August 26, 2013, 03:19 am
As a vendor, how do I look at the reviews my customers leave, especially to thank the one's who take time to write a nice one?

There used to be a link to Feedback but it is gone.

Modzi
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 03:24 am
looking at my stats makes me realize that i spent too much on here! hahaha
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DrMDA on August 26, 2013, 03:30 am
Did you seriously just fucking delete all my 300 feedback I just worked my ass off to get????? SERIOUSLY???? This is so fucked up. I can not believe you did that.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 03:33 am
Did you seriously just fucking delete all my 300 feedback I just worked my ass off to get????? SERIOUSLY???? This is so fucked up. I can not believe you did that.

look at post 183
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 26, 2013, 03:35 am
Guys, the feedback is not deleted.  Click on your items to see the old feedback. ::)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Orpheus99 on August 26, 2013, 03:36 am
The old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" certainly applies here.  I thought the old system was fine.  The new system gives names and stats if you leave a review and under those circumstances, I won't be leaving any reviews.  I am sure I am not alone.  And to lose what may be a very large number of reviews will be a real loss to the system.   I would really suggest re-thinking this.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DrMDA on August 26, 2013, 03:38 am
Did you seriously just fucking delete all my 300 feedback I just worked my ass off to get????? SERIOUSLY???? This is so fucked up. I can not believe you did that.

look at post 183

That is something totally different which I brought up a couple pages ago. "View feedback" is just a button for vendors that brings up all feedback to view. I am talking about all my feedback on my profile which is now all completely gone. For my sanity I will just assume this is a temporary thing.


Jack my feedback is all gone no matter how I try to access it. Like I said though I will just assume it will eventually pop back up after all this is done.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DrMDA on August 26, 2013, 03:39 am
The old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" certainly applies here.  I thought the old system was fine. 

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 26, 2013, 03:40 am
Jack my feedback is all gone no matter how I try to access it. Like I said though I will just assume it will eventually pop back up after all this is done.

I see it.  Here is the last page of feedback for your single gram listing.

Quote
5 of 5    3 days shipping, good stealth, not tried, but tastes very bitter - so 5/5 will likely order again!    19 hours
5 of 5    Product is awesome! Service is amazing!!!! I just fucked up and totally got wrapped up in some real life shit and completely forgot to finalize I am so sorry DRMDA!!!! Major fuck up on my part, again I am so sorry!    21 hours
5 of 5    Great communication
Ordered wed got it sat
Excellent stealth
Product looks lovely
Weight was right on point
Will be back!!!!!!!!!!!!    1 day
5 of 5    2 days shipping, strong smell, overweight. All and all perfect transaction. Couldn't be happier, thanks Dr!    1 day
5 of 5    fast shipping haven't tested yet but looking forward to it    1 day
5 of 5    got it quick thanks    1 day
5 of 5    thanks Dr.fastest sipping and choice stuff    1 day
5 of 5    5/5 stealth.
5/5 shipping speed.
5/5 product, some brown brown.

Definitely back for more soon.    1 day
5 of 5    FAST! BOMB!    1 day
5 of 5    Just arrived.    1 day
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Snooze on August 26, 2013, 03:45 am
The old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" certainly applies here.  I thought the old system was fine.  The new system gives names and stats if you leave a review and under those circumstances, I won't be leaving any reviews.  I am sure I am not alone.  And to lose what may be a very large number of reviews will be a real loss to the system.   I would really suggest re-thinking this.


Go to http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/account/settings and choice an alias. Dont use your SR Name. i too dont like the new format but leaving feedback is for everyones benefit and w/o we lose.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 26, 2013, 03:49 am
I could see feedback on the main vendor pages just a few hours but after the software update but maybe 1-2 hours ago it disappeared.  I figured it was probably temporarily taken down due to some glitches.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 03:49 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

No worries DPR I know you probably put a lot of time into this and it seems like it's easily the biggest change I've seen in my year here with SR.  Thanks for your hard work.  I like that option a lot.  As a small fish I'm not too concerned about having my stats out there but at the same time I (we) never had access to them previously and I just think from the buyers perspective there's not really a clear benefit of being able to see the stats of other buyers.  Perhaps some people making their buying decisions differently than me, but I don't plan on buying from a particular vendor just because they have been selling to long time members or big fish.  Like others have mentioned I'm more concerned about the most recent stats (so sorting by "freshness" is a must for me and I'm glad you put that option in there I like that). 

When you added that "discuss" feature a week ago was it your idea to sort of phase out the old feedback system and have people using the discuss feature more because they can create an alias?  I guess I just don't understand why a page or two ago you replied to me by saying the update would get rid of "frivolous reviews" and yet the purpose of the new section "discuss" seems to be for leaving reviews.  I really liked that last update with "discuss" feature (because it promotes feedback) and I like some of the points of this update.  I guess if I just had the ability to make one change in this update it would be to push more towards making feedback required instead of optional.  Feedback seems to be the bread and butter that buyers analyze when deciding on a vendor to do business with.  Someone mentioned that feedback was optional before too.  But I just liked how after you clicked finalize before it went right to the screen where you could select the rating and then type in your feedback.  It didn't seem as if it was optional and I think just about everyone given that setup felt compelled to at least write something there (less the few "leave feedback here" reviews which are the ones I assume you meant as frivolous).  And still with the new feedback system if everyone writes a review won't the size of the vendor still be revealed like it was previously?  It seems as if that portion of the update was more for vendors and not buyers because buyers want as much feedback about a vendor as possible. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 03:54 am
Did you seriously just fucking delete all my 300 feedback I just worked my ass off to get????? SERIOUSLY???? This is so fucked up. I can not believe you did that.

look at post 183

That is something totally different which I brought up a couple pages ago. "View feedback" is just a button for vendors that brings up all feedback to view. I am talking about all my feedback on my profile which is now all completely gone. For my sanity I will just assume this is a temporary thing.


Jack my feedback is all gone no matter how I try to access it. Like I said though I will just assume it will eventually pop back up after all this is done.

all we did was take old feedback out of the new format and put it into the old format on the vendor page.  all new feedback from now on will go into the new format, so in a week or so the reviews page and new format reviews on vendor pages should be mostly filled out. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: dipset on August 26, 2013, 04:14 am
Dread Pirate Roberts:  Did you censor my post in your thread by deleting it? I can't seem to find it anywhere and it just disappeared from my 'show new replies to your posts' section. This is now the second time I have had a post in one of your threads where I brought up an issue to you directly and the post then just disappeared. Tell me I am just missing it or something, right?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: sofish89 on August 26, 2013, 04:17 am
Am i the only one having trouble viewing the feedback?
About an hour or two ago i was checking out feedback on the updated version, I was checking out my favorite vendor's most recent vs weighted feedback. Now when I go to any vendor's page and i click on the feedback box on top, it takes me to the new feedback page, but it's all blank! and it's all the vendors, not just one!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: missbliss on August 26, 2013, 04:18 am
all we did was take old feedback out of the new format and put it into the old format on the vendor page.  all new feedback from now on will go into the new format, so in a week or so the reviews page and new format reviews on vendor pages should be mostly filled out.

hi hi

can you direct me to where on my profile page (or anywhere in my account) that will show me the feedback for my items? i seem to be having a difficulty finding the info you are referring to..... like others have mentioned the "View Feedback" link is now gone from my account page too, and on my vendor profile page i see zero feedback... i am currently not on stealth mode, but my listings are zero quantity. is this a bug?

xoxo
-mb
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: MarijuanaIsMyMuse on August 26, 2013, 04:44 am
We see your vision on this DPR , We like it , But curious as to not being able to view who left you bad feedback to rectify the situation.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 04:56 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No reason to be hostile man. It was a honest question. I was not attacking you. And I wouldn't vend to you anyways. My products make asshole implode, and we don't want that happening now do we? Instead of explaining the problem, you just decided to insult someone. Arguments only exists because one party lacks the information the other party has. Now please, provide me with your information. Don't be a dickhead.


jesus dude..  why would i spell out how to abuse a system to people who dont get it?  people who aren't that swift tend to really get a powertrip when they get a taste of a way to screw over people...  which is why i blasted you since this is the whole point..  people who cant see problems acting like there arent any and then want all the problems exposed for everyone..  this isn't math class.. we are dealing fucking drugs here..  you would get treated a lot worse than a flame post in some IRL circles for acting that way

also, I already gave a compromise better than ranges.  just make buyer feedback ratings on an algo with no stats listed.  Vendors get to see plenty anyway when one goes to buy from them.. the buyer doesnt need the whole world to see $$$ trailing them...  why you want to see $$$$ values all over the place is a red flag..   

and no, I am not going to explain any more ways it can be abused.... go back to adding more digits to your placeholder out of stock items simpleton

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 26, 2013, 05:09 am
I won't be participating in this. Going forward, I'll simply finalize without leaving a review.

I also object to my buyer stats being retroactively exposed on past purchases without my knowledge or consent.

they were not exposed under your name, but I agree now this was not the best way to transition.  What I am going to do is remove all old reviews from the new review format and put a legacy review table back on the vendor page.  Then only reviews written in the new system will be displayed in the new system.

I'm honestly surprised by the negative response to this.  The security issues being brought up are pretty tenuous.  These changes improve security for both buyers and sellers.  Under the old system, exact measurements of a vendor's sales volume and quantity could be scrapped over time.  Now, only transactions that reviews are written for can be scrapped and everyone has easy access to the info, not just the scrapers.  And as a buyer, you can opt-out of leaving a review and even a rating and stay 100% private.

fcukin hell, just admit your ideas were ill thought out and tried to change too much and adding information that is not fucking needed by anyone

please someone bring back the previous DPR the current one has fucking down syndrome
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 26, 2013, 05:14 am
I've removed all old reviews from the new format.  That was a blunder, I will admit it.  The new format is opt-in only, so if you don't like it, just don't leave a review.  If you are comfortable having it displayed under an alias, then go ahead and leave a review.

bring back the old DPR, lets knife this buffoon and feed him to the sharks
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 26, 2013, 05:24 am
DPR do you have aspergers?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: JahBUDS on August 26, 2013, 05:44 am
Code it up.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Divo on August 26, 2013, 05:45 am
DPR do you have aspergers?

I can't speak for any diagnosis on DPR, but judging by the posts of yours I've read so far I'm pretty sure you might have something like an Antisocial Personality Disorder.  Seriously man, look it up....  yes yes, let the flaming begin.   ::)  Now back to topic.......



Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 05:57 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No reason to be hostile man. It was a honest question. I was not attacking you. And I wouldn't vend to you anyways. My products make asshole implode, and we don't want that happening now do we? Instead of explaining the problem, you just decided to insult someone. Arguments only exists because one party lacks the information the other party has. Now please, provide me with your information. Don't be a dickhead.


jesus dude..  why would i spell out how to abuse a system to people who dont get it?  people who aren't that swift tend to really get a powertrip when they get a taste of a way to screw over people...  which is why i blasted you since this is the whole point..  people who cant see problems acting like there arent any and then want all the problems exposed for everyone..  this isn't math class.. we are dealing fucking drugs here..  you would get treated a lot worse than a flame post in some IRL circles for acting that way

also, I already gave a compromise better than ranges.  just make buyer feedback ratings on an algo with no stats listed.  Vendors get to see plenty anyway when one goes to buy from them.. the buyer doesnt need the whole world to see $$$ trailing them...  why you want to see $$$$ values all over the place is a red flag..   

and no, I am not going to explain any more ways it can be abused.... go back to adding more digits to your placeholder out of stock items simpleton
Expose the problem and staff will be forced to fix it. Best to do it now before its put in permanently. No way a scammer could use this new system to his advantage. The old system is WAY WAY more to the scammers advantage.

Honestly it sounds like you don't have one. From your hostile behavior and whole general attitude, you sound like one of the people this new update was coded for. Your making claims and can't back up anything whatsoever with proof, just insults.

This new system is fucking great. Now when vendors leave themselves fake reviews from several of their buyer accounts, a savvy buyer can see this, and call the vendor out to support and the forums.

I have a feeling that may well be why there is such a negative attitude towards this new update
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on August 26, 2013, 06:52 am
I like it. Plus it will be tweaked as we go along to address various needs.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 26, 2013, 07:12 am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No reason to be hostile man. It was a honest question. I was not attacking you. And I wouldn't vend to you anyways. My products make asshole implode, and we don't want that happening now do we? Instead of explaining the problem, you just decided to insult someone. Arguments only exists because one party lacks the information the other party has. Now please, provide me with your information. Don't be a dickhead.


jesus dude..  why would i spell out how to abuse a system to people who dont get it?  people who aren't that swift tend to really get a powertrip when they get a taste of a way to screw over people...  which is why i blasted you since this is the whole point..  people who cant see problems acting like there arent any and then want all the problems exposed for everyone..  this isn't math class.. we are dealing fucking drugs here..  you would get treated a lot worse than a flame post in some IRL circles for acting that way

also, I already gave a compromise better than ranges.  just make buyer feedback ratings on an algo with no stats listed.  Vendors get to see plenty anyway when one goes to buy from them.. the buyer doesnt need the whole world to see $$$ trailing them...  why you want to see $$$$ values all over the place is a red flag..   

and no, I am not going to explain any more ways it can be abused.... go back to adding more digits to your placeholder out of stock items simpleton
Expose the problem and staff will be forced to fix it. Best to do it now before its put in permanently. No way a scammer could use this new system to his advantage. The old system is WAY WAY more to the scammers advantage.

Honestly it sounds like you don't have one. From your hostile behavior and whole general attitude, you sound like one of the people this new update was coded for. Your making claims and can't back up anything whatsoever with proof, just insults.

This new system is fucking great. Now when vendors leave themselves fake reviews from several of their buyer accounts, a savvy buyer can see this, and call the vendor out to support and the forums.

I have a feeling that may well be why there is such a negative attitude towards this new update


wow you completely proved my assumptions accurate
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ShazMo on August 26, 2013, 07:50 am
Not diggin it...I liked it the way it was!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Herbal Remedy on August 26, 2013, 08:11 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

Sorry boss. If you do that, this update will be for nothing. Everyone here who claims this puts buyers at risk has yet to describe one actual scenario where it really would. Let people be pissed off, who cares? SR has a serious problem, this is a very good fix, and until someone can provide why this is a security risk over the old way, leave it and let them move to alantis.

The only people that should be pissed off about this update is scammers and vendors who leave fake feedback.

I will give this a shot, I think it might be possible that this update would put buyers and sellers all across the road at higher risk.  Im not sure about how the entire new system will work yet, but I am assuming that the buyer stats are public meaning anyone can see the amount of money buyers have spent and the number of vendors they have purchased from and the amount of orders they have made.

I see this as a risk for buyers who choose to allow their stats to be viewable, which then puts sellers and the whole community at higher risk.  Law enforcement could go through all the feedback and correlate certain buyers and their stats with the vendors they order from and it may be even possible to get the date they ordered that item.  Then if law enforcement ever intercepts a package or even orders from a vendor, a lot of vendors use the same return address multiple times.  As far as I know it has come out recently that every piece of mail in the USPS system is photographed and the information put into a database.  So once they get a vendors return address they can just go look back into the system and start investigating others who received mail from that address.  As they get more intel this job gets easier.  Using the information from this update they could possibly setup more sophisticated attacks and use the information to identify more buyers, more vendor return addresses, and intercept more packages.

Anyways I could be wrong because I don't totally understand the new system yet, but maybe its food for thought.

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: eggfriedreece13 on August 26, 2013, 08:20 am
where has all my previous feed back gone for all my customers at least keep what they have said about us   NOT BOTHERED about the new feed back  but would have like to kept the old stuff that was said....
Thanks EFR13
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/21b6929249
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ItalianMafiaBrussels on August 26, 2013, 08:29 am
I like the thing about un-changable feedback but i don't like the way the new feedback system gets sorted at all.

I mean it's lame that we only see the feeback left by the buyers that has most spend. I think the old system had a nice way of showing to the people the RECENT flow of feedback.

One vendor may have been 'doing bad' in the past, but now has worked out his issues, so we should be able to see that lately (last weeks) he has been on a good streak, and the old feedback system perfectly allowed that by showing feedback in chronic order, from newest to oldest.

With this new system it seems like if you had a few bad experiences with some people with huge spending ammounts, that defines you as not-so-good forever, since i think most people don't bother browsing through too many pages, the first impression is made on the first page !

IMB
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: tango on August 26, 2013, 09:31 am
Can vendors see which buyer leaves which feedback?
Or is it all annoymous
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ShazMo on August 26, 2013, 09:36 am
I like the thing about un-changable feedback but i don't like the way the new feedback system gets sorted at all.

I mean it's lame that we only see the feeback left by the buyers that has most spend. I think the old system had a nice way of showing to the people the RECENT flow of feedback.

One vendor may have been 'doing bad' in the past, but now has worked out his issues, so we should be able to see that lately (last weeks) he has been on a good streak, and the old feedback system perfectly allowed that by showing feedback in chronic order, from newest to oldest.

With this new system it seems like if you had a few bad experiences with some people with huge spending ammounts, that defines you as not-so-good forever, since i think most people don't bother browsing through too many pages, the first impression is made on the first page !

IMB

Agree with this point so much. I like to 'stalk' a vendors page for a few days before I make a purchase strictly to view the new feedback. Once I have placed an order I come back to the page to check the new feedback of the vendor. I also like to look at 'all' the feedback to get a rough estimate of how many packages get through, quality of the product etc. People having the choice to not leave any feedback at all (I assume most are going to do this if the do receive the order) is just going to make it harder to gauge a vendors ability in different areas whether it be quality, shipping speed and amount of lost packages.

If anything I would prefer to see the feedback of newer buyers over the long time, big spenders...A vendor has a much bigger incentive to 'look after' the big spenders than the little guys if looking at it from a business stand point. The little guys are the ones that will shows a vendors true professionalism when it comes to their store...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Miss Sexy Boots on August 26, 2013, 09:47 am
I like the thing about un-changable feedback but i don't like the way the new feedback system gets sorted at all.

I mean it's lame that we only see the feeback left by the buyers that has most spend. I think the old system had a nice way of showing to the people the RECENT flow of feedback.

One vendor may have been 'doing bad' in the past, but now has worked out his issues, so we should be able to see that lately (last weeks) he has been on a good streak, and the old feedback system perfectly allowed that by showing feedback in chronic order, from newest to oldest.

With this new system it seems like if you had a few bad experiences with some people with huge spending ammounts, that defines you as not-so-good forever, since i think most people don't bother browsing through too many pages, the first impression is made on the first page !

IMB

"Chronic Order" . . . Bloody good name for a band IMB but I think you meant "Chronological Order" which is a very different sort of thing. But we get your Brussel jisty.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: GotGas on August 26, 2013, 09:51 am
Problems/bugs:

- No 'View Feedback' link (not much of an issue just a few extra clicks to get to review page)

- You say you removed old feedback from new ratings, however I still see SOME of the old feedback at the bottom of SOME of my listings (maybe just hasn't been purged from server cache properly?)

- How do I tell if somebody left a rating at all? Do the total ratings (hover over bar graph) increase with the total transactons by finalising alone?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 09:52 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

Sorry boss. If you do that, this update will be for nothing. Everyone here who claims this puts buyers at risk has yet to describe one actual scenario where it really would. Let people be pissed off, who cares? SR has a serious problem, this is a very good fix, and until someone can provide why this is a security risk over the old way, leave it and let them move to alantis.

The only people that should be pissed off about this update is scammers and vendors who leave fake feedback.

I will give this a shot, I think it might be possible that this update would put buyers and sellers all across the road at higher risk.  Im not sure about how the entire new system will work yet, but I am assuming that the buyer stats are public meaning anyone can see the amount of money buyers have spent and the number of vendors they have purchased from and the amount of orders they have made.

I see this as a risk for buyers who choose to allow their stats to be viewable, which then puts sellers and the whole community at higher risk.  Law enforcement could go through all the feedback and correlate certain buyers and their stats with the vendors they order from and it may be even possible to get the date they ordered that item.  Then if law enforcement ever intercepts a package or even orders from a vendor, a lot of vendors use the same return address multiple times.  As far as I know it has come out recently that every piece of mail in the USPS system is photographed and the information put into a database.  So once they get a vendors return address they can just go look back into the system and start investigating others who received mail from that address.  As they get more intel this job gets easier.  Using the information from this update they could possibly setup more sophisticated attacks and use the information to identify more buyers, more vendor return addresses, and intercept more packages.

Anyways I could be wrong because I don't totally understand the new system yet, but maybe its food for thought.

What stops them from doing what you just described now? Nothing.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Herbal Remedy on August 26, 2013, 11:03 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

Sorry boss. If you do that, this update will be for nothing. Everyone here who claims this puts buyers at risk has yet to describe one actual scenario where it really would. Let people be pissed off, who cares? SR has a serious problem, this is a very good fix, and until someone can provide why this is a security risk over the old way, leave it and let them move to alantis.

The only people that should be pissed off about this update is scammers and vendors who leave fake feedback.

I will give this a shot, I think it might be possible that this update would put buyers and sellers all across the road at higher risk.  Im not sure about how the entire new system will work yet, but I am assuming that the buyer stats are public meaning anyone can see the amount of money buyers have spent and the number of vendors they have purchased from and the amount of orders they have made.

I see this as a risk for buyers who choose to allow their stats to be viewable, which then puts sellers and the whole community at higher risk.  Law enforcement could go through all the feedback and correlate certain buyers and their stats with the vendors they order from and it may be even possible to get the date they ordered that item.  Then if law enforcement ever intercepts a package or even orders from a vendor, a lot of vendors use the same return address multiple times.  As far as I know it has come out recently that every piece of mail in the USPS system is photographed and the information put into a database.  So once they get a vendors return address they can just go look back into the system and start investigating others who received mail from that address.  As they get more intel this job gets easier.  Using the information from this update they could possibly setup more sophisticated attacks and use the information to identify more buyers, more vendor return addresses, and intercept more packages.

Anyways I could be wrong because I don't totally understand the new system yet, but maybe its food for thought.

What stops them from doing what you just described now? Nothing.


True, but wouldn't the extra information make their job easier and attacks more successful?  It might help them to better create a map of buyers, sellers, and return addresses.  It is like we are giving them more pieces of the puzzle for free. I see the benefit of the new system, but I think we need to think more of the potential risks and costs of it as well.  I much more greatly value security for me and my customers than I value the benefits of these new changes.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 26, 2013, 11:39 am
I like the thing about un-changable feedback but i don't like the way the new feedback system gets sorted at all.

I mean it's lame that we only see the feeback left by the buyers that has most spend. I think the old system had a nice way of showing to the people the RECENT flow of feedback.

I agree that it would be nice to sort feedback by most-recent by default.  Things change quickly here and those us us that often frequent a vendor page want to see the latest feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ixcc on August 26, 2013, 11:44 am
The new vendor feedback system is a bit irritating and I feel it is too detailed about the buyer stats. Things like "Member for: 1+/6+ months/1 year...", "Money spent: 100+/$1000+/10000+" would be sufficient.

Feedback on item pages is still untouched, what I feel it needs (and nothing more): Show more feedback per page and let me sort it by rating.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 11:46 am
I see there is no view feedback option any more on account page? Is there a way of accessing that old feedback we used to get or is discuss function now there to change written feedback completely?

psi

we're going to bring that back in a slightly different form.  Sorry this rollout hasn't been as smooth as it could have been.  right now I am leaning toward giving people the option to display their stats or not next to their reviews.

Sorry boss. If you do that, this update will be for nothing. Everyone here who claims this puts buyers at risk has yet to describe one actual scenario where it really would. Let people be pissed off, who cares? SR has a serious problem, this is a very good fix, and until someone can provide why this is a security risk over the old way, leave it and let them move to alantis.

The only people that should be pissed off about this update is scammers and vendors who leave fake feedback.

I will give this a shot, I think it might be possible that this update would put buyers and sellers all across the road at higher risk.  Im not sure about how the entire new system will work yet, but I am assuming that the buyer stats are public meaning anyone can see the amount of money buyers have spent and the number of vendors they have purchased from and the amount of orders they have made.

I see this as a risk for buyers who choose to allow their stats to be viewable, which then puts sellers and the whole community at higher risk.  Law enforcement could go through all the feedback and correlate certain buyers and their stats with the vendors they order from and it may be even possible to get the date they ordered that item.  Then if law enforcement ever intercepts a package or even orders from a vendor, a lot of vendors use the same return address multiple times.  As far as I know it has come out recently that every piece of mail in the USPS system is photographed and the information put into a database.  So once they get a vendors return address they can just go look back into the system and start investigating others who received mail from that address.  As they get more intel this job gets easier.  Using the information from this update they could possibly setup more sophisticated attacks and use the information to identify more buyers, more vendor return addresses, and intercept more packages.

Anyways I could be wrong because I don't totally understand the new system yet, but maybe its food for thought.

What stops them from doing what you just described now? Nothing.


True, but wouldn't the extra information make their job easier and attacks more successful?  It might help them to better create a map of buyers, sellers, and return addresses.  It is like we are giving them more pieces of the puzzle for free. I see the benefit of the new system, but I think we need to think more of the potential risks and costs of it as well.  I much more greatly value security for me and my customers than I value the benefits of these new changes.

No. It would not be possible for them.

The date ordered will not help them to determine who and where someone got a package. Hundreds of packages are delivered to every zipcode every single day.

Buyers rarely finalize on days they actually get the item.

What your describing is some unrealistic movie type CIA shit. They would be better off trying to triangulate a sellers location by using a algorithm to decide when and where he will most likely pop up to drop off his packages, and staking a few officers in the best guesses to pop them. The amount of resources it would take to bust someone for a quarter pound of weed, or a gram of MDMA, is laughable.

They couldn't even find osama bin laden for how long? I doubt they would possibly be able to do what your describing.

More so my point, this new system aids them none in the type of situation you just described.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hypnotick on August 26, 2013, 01:28 pm
The new feedback seems a little confusing and I think I found a bug.

Anyway, when doing a review are we reviewing the vendor or the product? I just left a review and it is only visible on the vendors page and not on the product page.

Also, after I left a review I am no longer able to view other reviews, just my own. Now if I click the different products I am able to see others reviews and they look like the old system. This makes things a little confusing and takes away the symmetry. The feedback on the product pages and vendor page should look similar.

Actually, never mind I read about how you changed things.

However, I have a new suggestion. Could you implement a system to determine success rate for international orders? I was thinking you could include a new button or option when leaving feedback that asks whether or not a product was received. This data is used to calculate a percentage ( so too many details are revealed ). Then when a buyer views a vendors page ( or you can show this on the specific product ) they can view the percentage of orders that successfully made it to their country. This would be very helpful in choosing a vendor because some countries have stricter customs.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: wavelength on August 26, 2013, 02:04 pm
It's very sad that there are so many people against this.

I've been around sr for about a year now and I definitely find the new feedback system an IMPROVEMENT.

yes, it's good to be paranoid while doing something like this (ordering drugs over the internet)

IDK, I'm staying anonymous but I dont think I should refrain from reviewing because with my stats I would be the kind of person a noob would trust (in the case of reading reviews to know whether or not the product was legit)

I personally love the fact that we can sort through different scores of feedback and we can know what day it was from!

I've made a purchase or two and it allowed me to trust a vendor that I probably wouldn't have. (not a perfect rating, but for the last month or so they have been doing perfect!)

shit like that makes it obvious that its an improvement for both buyers and sellers.

It helps us know who to trust.

We can all stay anonymous through this am I right?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: boysen on August 26, 2013, 02:20 pm
Any ETA on maintenance? I have bitcoins waiting on SR, ready to make an order. :(
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: lonerism on August 26, 2013, 02:21 pm
Do we know how long SR will be down for this time?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: XXtcXX on August 26, 2013, 02:27 pm
this new system really sucks

the old one worked just fine this new layout is complicated and doesnt give me any useful information or better info that i wasnt able to see using the old format.

please take out this new rating system and just put the old one back in place cause it dont make any senese if someone is reviewing the vendor or the product so im even more confused..

JUST PUT THE OLD REVIEW / RATING SYSTEM BACK IN PLACE
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: realdeals on August 26, 2013, 02:31 pm
this new system really sucks

the old one worked just fine this new layout is complicated and doesnt give me any useful information or better info that i wasnt able to see using the old format.

please take out this new rating system and just put the old one back in place cause it dont make any senese if someone is reviewing the vendor or the product so im even more confused..

JUST PUT THE OLD REVIEW / RATING SYSTEM BACK IN PLACE

indeed , in my opinion the big rating layout makes the look a bit amateur.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Sc0t1and_Y4rdi3 on August 26, 2013, 02:36 pm
I AM TOTALLY PISSED WITH THE NEW SYSTEM!!!

- I do not see, which customer did what feedback! So how should I take care of an individual case?
- my "view feedback" link from admin is gone. but I really need this for my well developed process!

Really, if this stays like this, a lot of vendors will move to other placed.

UNDO THE CHANGES PLEASE!
(at lease give back the "view feedback" page for vendors with the REAL nicknames.)

this + the rise in fees, new DPR is a greedy jew...time to move over to another site
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: wavelength on August 26, 2013, 02:39 pm
this + the rise in fees, new DPR is a greedy jew...time to move over to another site

where can I find info on this?

I uploaded coins yesterday (97 dollars worth) and I ended up with 103 in my account.

If anything my btc situation has improved since the new shit they added.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Psytanium on August 26, 2013, 02:42 pm
Great upgrade :) i love this place.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: theprophet on August 26, 2013, 02:43 pm
A great set of updates for the silkroad, now all buyers need is a way to sort by weight or amount... overall though the website looks stellar now, good work DPR!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: boysen on August 26, 2013, 02:50 pm
I'm guessing deposits are delayed from the maintenance? Hope I get my order today. :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Ophidian on August 26, 2013, 02:55 pm
can the vendor see who has rated him or who has wrote the review?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: peengwinz on August 26, 2013, 03:07 pm
How come the only reviews I can see are all a month+ old?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: IceIceIce on August 26, 2013, 03:10 pm
Love the new ratings and reviews system  :D
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 03:13 pm
Love the new ratings and reviews system  :D
Me too, there are plenty of us, so the people moaning. No chance, this system is staying and the decision will not be reversed. DPR will never go back on his word, so save your pleas.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Trollin on August 26, 2013, 03:28 pm
I agreee with atlas the review system is nice and everything but being unable to change feedback is going to cause problems. I dont want to wait two weeks to go to resolution to sort a problem, when i can leave a low raiting and the vendor will jump through hoops to find a solution that earns a 5/5
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 26, 2013, 03:32 pm
I can't even leave a review..?

I can only place a rating of 1-5 now?

Are we just supposed to leave reviews in the discussion box?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 26, 2013, 03:41 pm
What your describing is some unrealistic movie type CIA shit.

I have seen buyers with purchasing stats as high as $50K, $100K and $200K. If you are one of these people and you think LE doesn't care about you and won't spend any resources to find you, then I'll see you at visitation.

Please refer to my signature.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Poobanator on August 26, 2013, 03:51 pm
DPR,

If I understand this correctly, the reviews at this moment appear to be listed in some sort of Weighted Order (as i Don't see my review I left saturday morning regarding a 1kg custom order).  If this is the case, Can we still have the option to list reviews by Date if we choose, I find it's a great way to see new trends in vendor feedback.

For instance, I recently made a big purchase of some hash, only to see 3 reviews for the same product come up over the following week that the particular hash that was being shipped was not the hash that was advertised.  And sure enough, now that it finally arrived it was definitely not as advertised. (but in this case was still very nice hash 5/5).

If the reviews are listed in a weighted fashion, trends like the above would take longer to pick up on.

Thanks

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: hallucinating horse on August 26, 2013, 03:52 pm
To all those complaining about not being able to change FE reviews. Don't leave review until you get the item.

Sorry, but the SR system is not built or maintained for FE. Use escrow no problems. Looks like this is trying to discourage FE if anything.

Good job DPR and crew!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 26, 2013, 04:27 pm
I don't think I like this very much..
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: guacamolly on August 26, 2013, 04:29 pm
I like checking back here a few times a day to see the new responses. People are going crazy about these new changes haha.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: boysen on August 26, 2013, 04:39 pm
I like checking back here a few times a day to see the new responses. People are going crazy about these new changes haha.

It doesn't matter where you look. Youtube, facebook, SR. Change is always scary! :p
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: guacamolly on August 26, 2013, 04:59 pm
Lol no doubt there!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: boysen on August 26, 2013, 05:09 pm
The bad part about this update for me was the maintenance and the resulting deposit delay, guess I have to cross my fingers that btc value increases even if it's currently going down even further. :(
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: james frazer on August 26, 2013, 05:31 pm
It looks like it will be a while before the new system settles down and can be properly evaluated. Until then I will be wary of ordering items I have not already tried, or buying from vendors I haven't already bought from.

Previously I finalised and left an initial review on delivery/stealth as soon as the goods arrived, and then revised the review after trying the product, which in the case of psychedelics might be a month or more later. Many others do the same, except not all of them return to update their reviews. If buyers wait until they have tried out the product before leaving a review it's likely that there will be far fewer reviews, especially for those items which are only available for a limited period. Therefore I agree with previous posters that it would be helpful to have separate reviews and/or ratings for delivery/stealth and product quality to try and ensure there will be at least some current feeedback available on the vendor.




Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DrGreenfingers on August 26, 2013, 05:35 pm
its looking ok, but it needs work, a couple of issues ive found;

1) shows feedback for items that were in stealth, custom listings are kept in stealth for privacy reasons etc, they shoudlnt come out in the feedback.

2) very hard to determine feedback for a specific item, so customer cant judge quality of a certain product before he buys.

both important issues not to be overlooked duing the upgrade.

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 26, 2013, 06:41 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 26, 2013, 06:57 pm
If I understand this correctly, the reviews at this moment appear to be listed in some sort of Weighted Order (as i Don't see my review I left saturday morning regarding a 1kg custom order). 

As I understand it custom or hidden orders will not be displayed in the Feedback.

If someone is privately ordering 1kg of anything MOSTLY they prefer to keep such activity anonymous. Think about it. If LE know a customer is buying 1KG of a product (i.e. for resale) then all they have to do is create a spoof Vendor account and offer free samples, including to the 1KG order. Mostly LE isn't going to go to all that effort to bust a pill or gram or joint or two, but for 1KG amounts it's suddenly worth it.

Even if they don't, the FEAR of it is there.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Wa1ter White on August 26, 2013, 10:21 pm
since the change i have had 8 people leave a rating and NONE have left a review.

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: jesse on August 26, 2013, 10:26 pm
since the change i have had 8 people leave a rating and NONE have left a review.

here the same...I was wondering...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 26, 2013, 10:41 pm
since the change i have had 8 people leave a rating and NONE have left a review.

here the same...I was wondering...

'cause everyone is a bit sketched and unsure about the new changes.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 26, 2013, 10:46 pm
I think reviews should be kept permanent, but everything else didn't need to be changed.

Overall it's not really that different and I like the discuss feature.  Wish it didn't show my buyer's stats for obvious reasons though.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 26, 2013, 10:47 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.

Absolutely agree with you Astor.  I'm in a complete state of shock and disbelief.
Seriously, this is one of the worst decisions I've ever seen.
How so many glaring security flaws could be overlooked is beyond me.
At this point I want to curl up in the fetal position and not post anything until all of this mess gets resolved.
This is some dire emergency stuff, and we will see instant repercussions because of it.

Man the day was going amazing, and then this happened.
Like crashing into a brick wall doing 120mph.
That's what my body and mind feel like, I'm sure plenty of you all feel the same way.

With sadness,
Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: JohnTheBaptist on August 26, 2013, 10:54 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.
The twitter thing was an over sight, but people have definitely been caught with that one, he assumed they would just log into through Tor, but the mistake was people didn't create new accounts to follow him. Which DPR are we talking about ? this new one who's been here say a couple of months, because that Twitter thing happened about that time. I think I noticed the change the day the "whats the deal with copycats thread went up" now correct me if I'm wrong here but the DPR of march 2011-late 2012 early  2013 would never betray any emotion,  even irritation, This new DPR is more engaging, now the new DPR has been given the key so the predecessor thinks he has what it takes, I don't know its all confusing, if it is the same DPR and he's using new tactics to outwit his pursuers. What do you think then, if this has been worked out from mathmatical equations has he over looked the potential breach of security? why don't you PM him and tell him what you've found?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 10:55 pm
since the change i have had 8 people leave a rating and NONE have left a review.

Of course they haven't.  This is what I've been trying to say in my long winded write ups over the past 2 days.  The "review" button is tucked away and it needs to be tweaked.  Make it bigger.  Move it back to the rating page.  Something.  But from what I've gathered DPR made this change so that LE doesn't realize those 8 people bought off of you.  So you're safer from LE efforts but you might lose some business in the future because buyers won't be reading as much positive feedback about the good job you've been doing.  How do you feel about that? 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 11:09 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.

This is one of the most intelligent posts I've read here no joke and to be honest I was already thinking about this myself when it showed up in the past week or two.  I was shocked that the system has been tracking the vendors I've dealt with and keeping all these detailed stats behind the scenes without me knowing.  It's pretty scary to think that if SR servers were compromised the entire paper trail would be there for LE to follow.  It should be thrown in the fire place every week!  SR terms of service makes vendors destroy evidence of a buyers address after the transaction but it's ok for SR to keep all this information about the buyers?  And for what good?  The purpose of "weighting" reviews on a scale of 1-5.  You know to me it's just as important if a $1,000 buyer with 5 transactions gets his ounce of weed from a vendor as it is if a $100,000 buyer with 100 transactions gets his ounce of weed from a vendor.  I don't think either is more or less important than the other.  For some reason DPR does.  I just don't get it.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 26, 2013, 11:12 pm
After just leaving a review and seeing my username and buyer stats listed next to it.  I am horrified.  There is no way to take back what I have done, or even make it so that my username cannot be seen, let alone my buyer stats.

THIS NEEDS IMMEDIATE FIXING.

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 11:14 pm
After just leaving a review and seeing my username and buyer stats listed next to it.  I am horrified.  There is no way to take back what I have done, or even make it so that my username cannot be seen, let alone my buyer stats.

THIS NEEDS IMMEDIATE FIXING.

Well the DPR who used to talk about pounding pots of coffee and burning that candle on both ends is over and out for a few days he says. 
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Rocknessie on August 26, 2013, 11:21 pm
since the change i have had 8 people leave a rating and NONE have left a review.

Once that coin tumbles and I snag a big bag of your stunning Liquid Sour, providing it's as good as the gram I got from you you can be certain of a 5/5 AND a review...

BUT, generally, I'm going to be holding off on the reviews until I've tested the product. I used to write an initial review (e.g. product arrived, talk about speed of delivery, how the product looks, stealth, communications, etc.) then update after testing. Now I'm going to have to wait until after testing. For weed that might only take a few hours - for I am chronic for the chronic - but for LSD or pills etc. that might take a week or two.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 26, 2013, 11:23 pm
It's pretty uncool to just leave us hanging after completely changing everything (for the worse)

I know for damn sure I'll never be leaving another review.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Herbal Remedy on August 26, 2013, 11:24 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.

Also movie night was another overlooked security issue.  I have to admit I feel slightly freaked out with these new changes, and the new DPR and everything.  I hope everything will work out ok, but I am glad there is competition in this market now so that if things don't work out there might be other options for buyers and sellers.

It is hard to get sales when you just got back from vacation and your last feedback was 2 months ago, and now my new buyers are afraid to leave feedback, so none of my recent sales are showing up in feedback...not good.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 26, 2013, 11:25 pm
After just leaving a review and seeing my username and buyer stats listed next to it.  I am horrified.  There is no way to take back what I have done, or even make it so that my username cannot be seen, let alone my buyer stats.

THIS NEEDS IMMEDIATE FIXING.

Your username is not shown to anyone else.  Your stats are not shown to anyone unless you have them set to be shown.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 26, 2013, 11:33 pm
Nowhere in settings is there anything about showing buyer stats.  Really hope I'm over-reacting cuz it's giving me quite the spook.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 26, 2013, 11:33 pm
So what do you think DPR hasn't already considered this? Or you think he is trying to get his customers pinched?

You mean like when he created that Twitter account and I had to point out that he should add a reminder for people not to follow him with accounts they created over clearnet?

Yeah, he's capable of overlooking security issues, and this feedback system creates an opportunity for several new attacks. Hiding the name is a superficial defense when purchasing stats and account age make pseudonymous reviewers uniquely identifiable. What's worse is that now there's verifiable proof of how much money a buyer has spent, and it will be possible to reconstruct their buying history, whereas before, even if people on the forum claimed they spent $100K, they could have been full of shit. Stats in forum signatures can be completely made up, but stats in market reviews are admissible as evidence in court, just like traditional paper and pen transaction ledgers have been used against drug dealers for decades.

And we pretty much know now with 99% certainty that he doesn't delete any transaction info, otherwise he could not have known have many unique vendors people purchased from a year ago. A smart dealer would throw his ledger in the fireplace each week, but you have no control over this one, except to hide it.

Also movie night was another overlooked security issue.  I have to admit I feel slightly freaked out with these new changes, and the new DPR and everything.  I hope everything will work out ok, but I am glad there is competition in this market now so that if things don't work out there might be other options for buyers and sellers.

It is hard to get sales when you just got back from vacation and your last feedback was 2 months ago, and now my new buyers are afraid to leave feedback, so none of my recent sales are showing up in feedback...not good.

I suspect your new buyers are not afraid to leave feedback as much as they don't know how to leave feedback.  The "review" button the vendor page after the order is complete is foreign to everyone at this point and although it's only speculation I'm 100% confident that in the future the amount of write ups and feedback will be decreased and it is just such a shame. 

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 26, 2013, 11:41 pm
Nowhere in settings is there anything about showing buyer stats.  Really hope I'm over-reacting cuz it's giving me quite the spook.

I guess we can't show them at all anymore.  Go look at a vendor's page and notice how you do not see any of the reviewer's usernames or stats. :)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 26, 2013, 11:46 pm
After just leaving a review and seeing my username and buyer stats listed next to it.  I am horrified.  There is no way to take back what I have done, or even make it so that my username cannot be seen, let alone my buyer stats.

THIS NEEDS IMMEDIATE FIXING.

when you left a review, if your alias is the same as your username, you were shown this message in bold red:

"Your username and alias match!  If you wish to post under a different name, change your alias on your settings page."

You can still do this now and the name on your review will change within five minutes.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: DopeSneaky on August 26, 2013, 11:51 pm
Why was all my feedback changed to 5/5 for all vendors with this change?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 26, 2013, 11:56 pm
I'm not going to be leaving any reviews for a while.

I just really don't see the point in having my buyer stats revealed to the public because I want to review a vendors performance and product. Regardless of if I have the option to do so under an alias.
I used to like leaving reviews for vendors, but now the idea of doing so just kinda scares me.
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 26, 2013, 11:59 pm
I'm not going to be leaving any reviews for a while.

I just really don't see the point in having my buyer stats revealed to the public because I want to review a vendors performance and product. Regardless of if I have the option to do so under an alias.
I used to like leaving reviews for vendors, but now the idea of doing so just kinda scares me.
Just my 2 cents.

Buyer stats are not shown to the public.  They are not shown to anyone except yourself and a vendor when your order is still in processing with them or you are in resolution with them.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 27, 2013, 12:03 am
I'm not going to be leaving any reviews for a while.

I just really don't see the point in having my buyer stats revealed to the public because I want to review a vendors performance and product. Regardless of if I have the option to do so under an alias.
I used to like leaving reviews for vendors, but now the idea of doing so just kinda scares me.
Just my 2 cents.

Buyer stats are not shown to the public.  They are not shown to anyone except yourself and a vendor when your order is still in processing with them or you are in resolution with them.

there have been some changes Jack.  new reviews show a buyer's stats under an alias.  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 27, 2013, 12:09 am
I'm not going to be leaving any reviews for a while.

I just really don't see the point in having my buyer stats revealed to the public because I want to review a vendors performance and product. Regardless of if I have the option to do so under an alias.
I used to like leaving reviews for vendors, but now the idea of doing so just kinda scares me.
Just my 2 cents.

Buyer stats are not shown to the public.  They are not shown to anyone except yourself and a vendor when your order is still in processing with them or you are in resolution with them.

there have been some changes Jack.  new reviews show a buyer's stats under an alias.  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.

Interesting...  I did not realize this.  The option to have it hidden does sound like a nice compromise.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 27, 2013, 12:10 am
I'm not crazy about the description as a 4 which is "solid, would recommend."  If the transaction goes just like it should then no reason to penalize and anything less than a 5 is going to reduce that 100% feedback.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: khorne flake on August 27, 2013, 12:19 am
Thank you for addressing my concerns DPR,

I have since changed my alias.  I would like it if us buyers had the option to hide our stats in our feedbacks and discussion posts.  I still will not be leaving feedbacks as long as my buyer stats are made public.  Even fake aliases give LE more power to start drawing up maps and shit, they could see every feedback you've left the same alias and around what time you left it.  Really sketches me out.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 27, 2013, 12:39 am
I'm not going to be leaving any reviews for a while.

I just really don't see the point in having my buyer stats revealed to the public because I want to review a vendors performance and product. Regardless of if I have the option to do so under an alias.
I used to like leaving reviews for vendors, but now the idea of doing so just kinda scares me.
Just my 2 cents.

Buyer stats are not shown to the public.  They are not shown to anyone except yourself and a vendor when your order is still in processing with them or you are in resolution with them.

there have been some changes Jack.  new reviews show a buyer's stats under an alias.  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.

Interesting...  I did not realize this.  The option to have it hidden does sound like a nice compromise.
Great compromsie!
Please give us that option as buyers!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 27, 2013, 12:44 am
This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.
As it always has been because of the vast knowledge shared on here.
Now the user interface is just incredibly clunky and painful to scroll through reviews.
This should seriously be considered for being reverted or implemented in some other way.
Say keep a similar appearance  to what it was and add options in a much more minimalistic and simple manner.
Things could have been changed and slowly added instead of destroying a perfectly viable and quick and easy to see feedback/review system.
Just simply adding the ability to sort by rating, and other features would have worked fine.

Now we have gigantic boxes, that look completely out of place and it just doesn't look or feel "right".
Tone down the scaling and make it more legible and easy to use.
The boxes are just too damn big, and the huge - Alias Hidden, Buyer Stats Hidden, (hidden).  These are completely useless to have on each review.
Remove them completely.

Plus we don't need this huge box saying -
Vendor ratings:   weighted   unweighted
5     WOW! Outstanding!   78%   97%
4     Solid, would recommend   0%   0%
3     Meh, they're ok I guess   0%   1%
2     Definitely needs improvement   0%   0%
1     NEVER AGAIN!!!   22%   2%

Simplify it just like the streamlined interface that was implemented a few days ago.
That looked professional and aesthetically pleasing.
Seriously, this just looks sloppy.
Not to rant, but I'm just not a fan of the changes.  Can't we please make this look better?
It would be a grave injustice to see it stay this way.

It looks completely unprofessional.  No offense to whoever designed all this.
Was the goal of these aesthetic changes to appeal to younger people?
Really I don't grasp this at all.
It's simply my opinion, and take it with a grain of salt.

TLDR - I'll be sticking to the forums and vendor's profile for all my information and future purchases.  At least for the time being.

Regards,
Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Trappy on August 27, 2013, 03:06 am
This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.

I agree.

Also, my services are now slightly more expensive. Thank you DPR, The God of supply and demand. May I sacrifice a pure white lamb in your honor?

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ShazMo on August 27, 2013, 03:23 am
o_O Just logged in today to see this...this...monster of a review system! It is not user friendly when comparing it to the old system at all.

And considering new customers to SR, this is not going to be easy to understand at all...Its quite a turn off.

We used to be able to click a vendor and on the Vendors main page get a general idea of what that vendor is like...Now everyone has to navigate through this new clunky menu with gigantic boxes, click through several pages and it is a real pain in the ass with how slow Tor is...

In saying that I still appreciate the work you are putting in DPR, but this feedback system just makes it a chore to browse through vendors.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: postrex on August 27, 2013, 06:53 am
new reviews show a buyer's stats under an alias.  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.
The new system is good, just too specific.  Make aliases customizable sure, but set them by default to random hex strings.

And then make buyer stats generalized!  That's all you have to do.  e.g.  $0-50; $50-200; $200-1000; etc, and 0-5 purchases; 5-10 purchases, or something like that.  Or just make it completely generalized (use a hidden or exposed rating system for buyers).

I think standardization is better.  Make all the feedback the same - not some with hidden profiles or some hidden stats.  Generalize the buyer stats, and make randomized review aliases default, and then everything is solid.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 27, 2013, 07:08 am
o_O Just logged in today to see this...this...monster of a review system! It is not user friendly when comparing it to the old system at all.

And considering new customers to SR, this is not going to be easy to understand at all...Its quite a turn off.

We used to be able to click a vendor and on the Vendors main page get a general idea of what that vendor is like...Now everyone has to navigate through this new clunky menu with gigantic boxes, click through several pages and it is a real pain in the ass with how slow Tor is...

In saying that I still appreciate the work you are putting in DPR, but this feedback system just makes it a chore to browse through vendors.

Indeed, and 100% agreed.  As my post above yours would indicate.
Quoting it again below for good measures.

This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.
As it always has been because of the vast knowledge shared on here.
Now the user interface is just incredibly clunky and painful to scroll through reviews.
This should seriously be considered for being reverted or implemented in some other way.
Say keep a similar appearance  to what it was and add options in a much more minimalistic and simple manner.
Things could have been changed and slowly added instead of destroying a perfectly viable and quick and easy to see feedback/review system.
Just simply adding the ability to sort by rating, and other features would have worked fine.

Now we have gigantic boxes, that look completely out of place and it just doesn't look or feel "right".
Tone down the scaling and make it more legible and easy to use.
The boxes are just too damn big, and the huge - Alias Hidden, Buyer Stats Hidden, (hidden).  These are completely useless to have on each review.
Remove them completely.

Plus we don't need this huge box saying -
Vendor ratings:   weighted   unweighted
5     WOW! Outstanding!   78%   97%
4     Solid, would recommend   0%   0%
3     Meh, they're ok I guess   0%   1%
2     Definitely needs improvement   0%   0%
1     NEVER AGAIN!!!   22%   2%

Simplify it just like the streamlined interface that was implemented a few days ago.
That looked professional and aesthetically pleasing.
Seriously, this just looks sloppy.
Not to rant, but I'm just not a fan of the changes.  Can't we please make this look better?
It would be a grave injustice to see it stay this way.

It looks completely unprofessional.  No offense to whoever designed all this.
Was the goal of these aesthetic changes to appeal to younger people?
Really I don't grasp this at all.
It's simply my opinion, and take it with a grain of salt.

TLDR - I'll be sticking to the forums and vendor's profile for all my information and future purchases.  At least for the time being.

Regards,
Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: GotGas on August 27, 2013, 09:08 am
Is ANYONE getting feedback now with the new system?

I've noticed what others have mentioned. Buyers aren't leaving reviews anymore. I understood the need to change to weighted ratings, however it seems people now prefer 'opting-out' since given the option to.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 27, 2013, 09:24 am
I've noticed what others have mentioned. Buyers aren't leaving reviews anymore.

It's because the new system is vastly overcomplicated, and completely unnecessary.
Buyers can finalize and then leave their rating for you.
Then in order for them to post an actual review for you, they have to go into their account settings.
Click on Recent Orders, and then the post review button.

On top of all this, we can no longer edit either the rating or the actual feedback. 
Which is really detrimental for people leaving quality reviews.
Since usually lots of people actually like to try the product before leaving their reviews, and in this case - you may not have time.
Especially with international orders, etc.
It's really a bad situation, but hopefully it will be corrected soon.
I have faith in DPR that this will be fixed.

Best Regards,
Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Orpheus99 on August 27, 2013, 09:48 am
<<when you left a review, if your alias is the same as your username, you were shown this message in bold red:
"Your username and alias match!  If you wish to post under a different name, change your alias on your settings page."
You can still do this now and the name on your review will change within five minutes.>>

But if you change your to an alias from your user name, will it only affect the reviews you give or will it also change your name in posts in forums, in messages and in vendor's identification of you when you order?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: 12345 on August 27, 2013, 12:48 pm
subbing
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: slirp on August 27, 2013, 01:22 pm

It's because the new system is vastly overcomplicated, and completely unnecessary.
Buyers can finalize and then leave their rating for you.
Then in order for them to post an actual review for you, they have to go into their account settings.
Click on Recent Orders, and then the post review button.

Most of us keeping up to date on this thread haven't even figured this out.

I would guess that less than 1% of text-feedback has been given for orders finalized since this change.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 27, 2013, 03:38 pm

It's because the new system is vastly overcomplicated, and completely unnecessary.
Buyers can finalize and then leave their rating for you.
Then in order for them to post an actual review for you, they have to go into their account settings.
Click on Recent Orders, and then the post review button.

Most of us keeping up to date on this thread haven't even figured this out.
I would guess that less than 1% of text-feedback has been given for orders finalized since this change.

No doubt, hopefully it helps get some more reviews flowing.

Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Tessellated on August 27, 2013, 03:57 pm
I have had a couple of customers mention that they left me feedback and it is not showing up.

I have exactly 1 new feedback since the change. All of the old one's say "Alias hidden" and buyer stats are hidden.

But the 1 new feedback shows alias and buyer stats.

Something is funky.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 27, 2013, 04:16 pm
The new system is good, just too specific.  Make aliases customizable sure, but set them by default to random hex strings.

Step back and ask yourself what the purpose of the alias is.

Do you want to unlink your market username from your forum username? If so, you shouldn't be using the same username in the first place, because you leak it to every vendor that you make a purchase from. Thus you link your market and forum accounts to every vendor. That's a threat to your privacy, because a vendor could intentionally or unintentionally reveal the association.

Do you want to leave a review without the vendor knowing which buyer you are? Right now the stats are too specific and it should be trivial to do. I am a vendor. Someone with 3 m 5 d made a purchase off me 5 days ago, and today someone with 3 m 10 d left a review. Derp, they're the same person. Not too many vendors will get purchases on the same day from two accounts that are the same age down to the day, but if there's any doubt, the other stats will distinguish them. (And obviously vendors can save stats to identify their reviewers.)

Under this implementation, an alias is a superficial and flawed privacy defense, and it doesn't matter if it's a hex string.

Quote
And then make buyer stats generalized!  That's all you have to do.  e.g.  $0-50; $50-200; $200-1000; etc, and 0-5 purchases; 5-10 purchases, or something like that.  Or just make it completely generalized (use a hidden or exposed rating system for buyers).

The main reason I've heard why we should see buyer stats is to ferret out shills, but shills operate at the low end of the buyer spectrum. Dividing the stats into two categories could be sufficient: less than 10 purchases vs more than 10 purchases, less than $1000 spent vs more than $1000 spent. You can ignore reviews from the low category. Maybe there could be a feature to hide them.

If you want, you can subdivide into more categories, but I honestly don't see the point. I don't see why someone with $12,000 spent is inherently more trustworthy than someone with $2000 spent. And the account age is utterly useless. People can register accounts months before they use them for anything. I have accounts that are over 6 months old and one that is over a year old with no or little spent on them. If you think account age means anything, I can create a vendor account and easily fool you.

Bottom line is, these stats are needlessly specific and threaten the privacy of buyers.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jason Bourne on August 27, 2013, 04:42 pm
The new system is good, just too specific.  Make aliases customizable sure, but set them by default to random hex strings.

Step back and ask yourself what the purpose of the alias is.

Do you want to unlink your market username from your forum username? If so, you shouldn't be using the same username in the first place, because you leak it to every vendor that you make a purchase from. Thus you link your market and forum accounts to every vendor. That's a threat to your privacy, because a vendor could intentionally or unintentionally reveal the association.

Do you want to leave a review without the vendor knowing which buyer you are? Right now the stats are too specific and it should be trivial to do. I am a vendor. Someone with 3 m 5 d made a purchase off me 5 days ago, and today someone with 3 m 10 d left a review. Derp, they're the same person. Not too many vendors will get purchases on the same day from two accounts that are the same age down to the day, but if there's any doubt, the other stats will distinguish them. (And obviously vendors can save stats to identify their reviewers.)

Under this implementation, an alias is a superficial and flawed privacy defense, and it doesn't matter if it's a hex string.

Quote
And then make buyer stats generalized!  That's all you have to do.  e.g.  $0-50; $50-200; $200-1000; etc, and 0-5 purchases; 5-10 purchases, or something like that.  Or just make it completely generalized (use a hidden or exposed rating system for buyers).

The main reason I've heard why we should see buyer stats is to ferret out shills, but shills operate at the low end of the buyer spectrum. Dividing the stats into two categories could be sufficient: less than 10 purchases vs more than 10 purchases, less than $1000 spent vs more than $1000 spent. You can ignore reviews from the low category. Maybe there could be a feature to hide them.

If you want, you can subdivide into more categories, but I honestly don't see the point. I don't see why someone with $12,000 spent is inherently more trustworthy than someone with $2000 spent. And the account age is utterly useless. People can register accounts months before they use them for anything. I have accounts that are over 6 months old and one that is over a year old with no or little spent on them. If you think account age means anything, I can create a vendor account and easily fool you.

Bottom line is, these stats are needlessly specific and threaten the privacy of buyers.

Agreed.
There was absolutely NO problem with the old feedback system, except for the possible extortion and feedback leverage, which I believe is not really harmful. Now we're not anonymous anymore and we can't pay and review later. This overhaul changes our (my) habits drastically, while bringing NO gain whatsoever.
The funniest about it all is that the consequences of these changes were not thought of beforehand. There is a statement by DPR stating exactly what I mention, I'm too lazy to look it up though.

You guys ever heard about UX?

Peace out
Jason.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 27, 2013, 04:51 pm
Oh yeah, I third option for wanting an alias is to change your name on each review so someone can't reconstruct your purchasing history by scraping the site and searching for your name. First of all, I bet 90% of buyers won't change their alias from review to review, but even if the do, their stats will allow an adversary to rebuild their purchasing history with relative ease, as I've already outlined:

They find a reviewer with 12 purchases and $675 spent on a $125 item. So they search for reviews at earlier time points from someone with 12 - 1 = 11 purchases and $675 - $125 = $550 spent. When they find a candidate, they can confirm it by the account age, because the second review came N days before the first one, and the account is N days younger (if they stamp the review with the account age at the time it was made, and not the current account age, in which case it would be even easier since they would be direct matches). The second review is on a $50 item, so they look for a review with 11 - 1 = 10 purchases and $550 - $50 = $500 spent. Rinse and repeat. There might be some false positives and a little difficulty because of the slightly floating cost of items due to the exchange rate and not hedging, but it won't be too hard. The buyer age will usually be sufficient to get the right person.

So again, the alias simply fails at everything it is intended to do.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: astor on August 27, 2013, 04:59 pm
There was absolutely NO problem with the old feedback system, except for the possible extortion and feedback leverage

I agree with this. The 4 month window to change reviews was absurd. It should have closed 2 or 3 weeks after finalizing. We've gone from one extreme to the other, and it isn't better.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: crystal on August 27, 2013, 06:38 pm
new reviews show a buyer's stats under an alias.  I think what we are going to do is give users the option to turn this off.
The new system is good, just too specific.  Make aliases customizable sure, but set them by default to random hex strings.

And then make buyer stats generalized!  That's all you have to do.  e.g.  $0-50; $50-200; $200-1000; etc, and 0-5 purchases; 5-10 purchases, or something like that.  Or just make it completely generalized (use a hidden or exposed rating system for buyers).

I think standardization is better.  Make all the feedback the same - not some with hidden profiles or some hidden stats.  Generalize the buyer stats, and make randomized review aliases default, and then everything is solid.


An alias is not really needed - if we have stats (standardized of course) it's enough. If there has to be an alias, an option to be 'anonymous' (sharing the 'anonymous' alias with the users who decide to do so) and/or to use a different alias per review is really important.

We don't need buyer stats: a global rating given to each user, based on those statistics could do. Something similar to the green bar on vendor page would be enough to know if a comment is coming from an active account or from a newbie... If there is more information, it has to be general enough to make profiling impossible & to keep the whole thing easy to read...

The old system was nice as it was easy to scroll down to read the last ratings/comments.

Astor idea is pretty good (less than 10 transaction / more than 10 - less than 1k$ spent, more than 1k) - you can keep it simple, we don't need (to disclose) too much information...
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 27, 2013, 08:15 pm
I posted this 10 pages ago a few times,  I see it pop up now so here it is again:

"get rid of the EXACT stats and put a buyer rank if you must (noob, solid, all-star, time-waster, etc)

people are SKETCHED out on seeing real stats blasted on the site"

Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: convergedlight on August 27, 2013, 08:47 pm
I posted this 10 pages ago a few times,  I see it pop up now so here it is again:

"get rid of the EXACT stats and put a buyer rank if you must (noob, solid, all-star, time-waster, etc)

people are SKETCHED out on seeing real stats blasted on the site"

It would be good if the account age and btc spent could be weighted and condensed into a single rank like is suggested here.  Buckets, while slightly more anonymous, may still be fairly trackable given there are 2 parameters.  But, if it could be weighted to create a single rank that incorporates age and btc to appropriate degrees, that would be highly anonymous given there may be only 1-6 total options.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Miss Sexy Boots on August 27, 2013, 09:59 pm
This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.
As it always has been because of the vast knowledge shared on here.
Now the user interface is just incredibly clunky and painful to scroll through reviews.
This should seriously be considered for being reverted or implemented in some other way.
Say keep a similar appearance  to what it was and add options in a much more minimalistic and simple manner.
Things could have been changed and slowly added instead of destroying a perfectly viable and quick and easy to see feedback/review system.
Just simply adding the ability to sort by rating, and other features would have worked fine.

Now we have gigantic boxes, that look completely out of place and it just doesn't look or feel "right".
Tone down the scaling and make it more legible and easy to use.
The boxes are just too damn big, and the huge - Alias Hidden, Buyer Stats Hidden, (hidden).  These are completely useless to have on each review.
Remove them completely.

Plus we don't need this huge box saying -
Vendor ratings:   weighted   unweighted
5     WOW! Outstanding!   78%   97%
4     Solid, would recommend   0%   0%
3     Meh, they're ok I guess   0%   1%
2     Definitely needs improvement   0%   0%
1     NEVER AGAIN!!!   22%   2%

Simplify it just like the streamlined interface that was implemented a few days ago.
That looked professional and aesthetically pleasing.
Seriously, this just looks sloppy.
Not to rant, but I'm just not a fan of the changes.  Can't we please make this look better?
It would be a grave injustice to see it stay this way.

It looks completely unprofessional.  No offense to whoever designed all this.
Was the goal of these aesthetic changes to appeal to younger people?
Really I don't grasp this at all.
It's simply my opinion, and take it with a grain of salt.

TLDR - I'll be sticking to the forums and vendor's profile for all my information and future purchases.  At least for the time being.

Regards,
Vanquish

+1 I absolutely agree Vanquish.

Respectfully: As someone who cares a LOT about aesthetics on so many levels - I feel very very awkward and uncomfortable now on multiple levels. (And no, this is not a result of 'Change', it is because to me it is ugly, bulky and awkward both to look at and to evaluate.)

After 8 months on this site I had become very very good at quickly assessing potential vendors. Now, with this new layout, I know that all of these evaluation techniques are now useless. Lucky that I know who my top vendors are already. I cannot see how a Noob will be able to successfully navigate this much more confusing maze.

Im reminded of this: "If it isn't broken, it doesn't need fixing" 

And more importantly this: "The First Rule of Sales: Keep it Simple" (It already looks like vendors may be losing sales as a result of these changes... and so will SR)

DPR: Thanks all the same for all the hard work that must have gone into this so far. Good luck sorting through these issues.






Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: ScoobyDoo on August 27, 2013, 11:11 pm
This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.
As it always has been because of the vast knowledge shared on here.
Now the user interface is just incredibly clunky and painful to scroll through reviews.
This should seriously be considered for being reverted or implemented in some other way.
Say keep a similar appearance  to what it was and add options in a much more minimalistic and simple manner.
Things could have been changed and slowly added instead of destroying a perfectly viable and quick and easy to see feedback/review system.
Just simply adding the ability to sort by rating, and other features would have worked fine.

Now we have gigantic boxes, that look completely out of place and it just doesn't look or feel "right".
Tone down the scaling and make it more legible and easy to use.
The boxes are just too damn big, and the huge - Alias Hidden, Buyer Stats Hidden, (hidden).  These are completely useless to have on each review.
Remove them completely.

Plus we don't need this huge box saying -
Vendor ratings:   weighted   unweighted
5     WOW! Outstanding!   78%   97%
4     Solid, would recommend   0%   0%
3     Meh, they're ok I guess   0%   1%
2     Definitely needs improvement   0%   0%
1     NEVER AGAIN!!!   22%   2%

Simplify it just like the streamlined interface that was implemented a few days ago.
That looked professional and aesthetically pleasing.
Seriously, this just looks sloppy.
Not to rant, but I'm just not a fan of the changes.  Can't we please make this look better?
It would be a grave injustice to see it stay this way.

It looks completely unprofessional.  No offense to whoever designed all this.
Was the goal of these aesthetic changes to appeal to younger people?
Really I don't grasp this at all.
It's simply my opinion, and take it with a grain of salt.

TLDR - I'll be sticking to the forums and vendor's profile for all my information and future purchases.  At least for the time being.

Regards,
Vanquish

+1 I absolutely agree Vanquish.

Respectfully: As someone who cares a LOT about aesthetics on so many levels - I feel very very awkward and uncomfortable now on multiple levels. (And no, this is not a result of 'Change', it is because to me it is ugly, bulky and awkward both to look at and to evaluate.)

After 8 months on this site I had become very very good at quickly assessing potential vendors. Now, with this new layout, I know that all of these evaluation techniques are now useless. Lucky that I know who my top vendors are already. I cannot see how a Noob will be able to successfully navigate this much more confusing maze.

Im reminded of this: "If it isn't broken, it doesn't need fixing" 

And more importantly this: "The First Rule of Sales: Keep it Simple"

DPR: Thanks all the same for all the hard work that must have gone into this so far. Good luck sorting through these issues.

+1 to everyone on this page.

DPR, can we just go back to normal and forget this all ever happened?

I think that would truly meet the needs of the majority of people here.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: GotGas on August 28, 2013, 12:46 am
I have had a couple of customers mention that they left me feedback and it is not showing up.

I have exactly 1 new feedback since the change. All of the old one's say "Alias hidden" and buyer stats are hidden.

But the 1 new feedback shows alias and buyer stats.

Something is funky.

Yeah DPR reiterated on another thread that all the old feedback will have name + stats hidden.

I was just curious if the new system might be encouraging buyers not to leave any feedback or if there was another issue as you have mentioned.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: GotGas on August 28, 2013, 12:53 am

It's because the new system is vastly overcomplicated, and completely unnecessary.
Buyers can finalize and then leave their rating for you.
Then in order for them to post an actual review for you, they have to go into their account settings.
Click on Recent Orders, and then the post review button.

Most of us keeping up to date on this thread haven't even figured this out.
I would guess that less than 1% of text-feedback has been given for orders finalized since this change.

No doubt, hopefully it helps get some more reviews flowing.

Vanquish

Thanks Vanquish!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: 4903kmn1d on August 28, 2013, 02:16 am
-- Good
Option to sort feedback by Weight or Freshness
Vendor's page now displays what item the buyer purchased above their comment (don't have to load another page to see)
The 5 4 3 2 1 bars for Vendor Ratings left by buyers

-- Not so good.. :o
Buyer's purchasing stats made public: total spent is not correct because of btc fluctuations anyway, but less information available to scrape must be better
Permanent feedback: perhaps not the way to go? I think some flexibility is important with this
Vendor ratings: I preferred how they were displayed before e.g. Vendor ( 99 ) instead of Vendor 5.0.. I'm getting used to it though

Thnx for your time and effort on SR DPR
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: 4903kmn1d on August 28, 2013, 02:20 am
also there's a few typos on the Ratings & Reviews wiki, "there transactions, which can be found with the following forumula" * their and formula  ;)
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: heatcheck on August 28, 2013, 04:09 am
Didn't sign on for a day or two and came back to this mess.

Other issues aside, the review boxes are now MASSIVE. I can only see like 5 on a page and at the rate tor loads pages, it will take me forever to read enough to get a good picture.

I'm sure my other grievances have been voiced in these 22 pages. Hopefully something good comes out of the discussion.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Wa1ter White on August 28, 2013, 09:59 am
I like how feedback is looking now, much more useable and aesthetically pleasing.


It's like it was before but with the added info about the person leaving the feedback. Perfect.


Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Locker on August 28, 2013, 03:55 pm
Not sure if this has been said but there's a typo in the 'write a review', spelt 'reveiw' ;D

-Locker.
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jason Bourne on August 29, 2013, 09:59 am
This new review system is worthless, it's infinitely better to use the forum to gauge the quality of items now.
As it always has been because of the vast knowledge shared on here.
Now the user interface is just incredibly clunky and painful to scroll through reviews.
This should seriously be considered for being reverted or implemented in some other way.
Say keep a similar appearance  to what it was and add options in a much more minimalistic and simple manner.
Things could have been changed and slowly added instead of destroying a perfectly viable and quick and easy to see feedback/review system.
Just simply adding the ability to sort by rating, and other features would have worked fine.

Now we have gigantic boxes, that look completely out of place and it just doesn't look or feel "right".
Tone down the scaling and make it more legible and easy to use.
The boxes are just too damn big, and the huge - Alias Hidden, Buyer Stats Hidden, (hidden).  These are completely useless to have on each review.
Remove them completely.

Plus we don't need this huge box saying -
Vendor ratings:   weighted   unweighted
5     WOW! Outstanding!   78%   97%
4     Solid, would recommend   0%   0%
3     Meh, they're ok I guess   0%   1%
2     Definitely needs improvement   0%   0%
1     NEVER AGAIN!!!   22%   2%

Simplify it just like the streamlined interface that was implemented a few days ago.
That looked professional and aesthetically pleasing.
Seriously, this just looks sloppy.
Not to rant, but I'm just not a fan of the changes.  Can't we please make this look better?
It would be a grave injustice to see it stay this way.

It looks completely unprofessional.  No offense to whoever designed all this.
Was the goal of these aesthetic changes to appeal to younger people?
Really I don't grasp this at all.
It's simply my opinion, and take it with a grain of salt.

TLDR - I'll be sticking to the forums and vendor's profile for all my information and future purchases.  At least for the time being.

Regards,
Vanquish

The only interesting feat is to be able to browse feedback sorted by score. Which is rendered useless as these aren't to be connected chronologically. Fe I won't know if there is an episode of scamming, or just a single case of bad luck.

The wording is a joke "WOW outstanding"? As Vanquish said, is it really necessary to be reminded this site is aiming at american teens as the average user?
On top of that, wraithe did a pretty good explanation on how the review scale should work. His scale isn't matching the new one. He did that scale based on return on experience of 2 years of SR usage, where the most distributed grade is 5.
The new one is suggesting 4 as the average grade. Which vendors won't like, and will confuse buyers. I won't explain why, as it will only get me started.

Great thing you did some changes. Please think about the consequence beforehand next time. There is a word that goes: Do not fix what's not broken. Stick to it.

Peace out
Jason
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: seafrog92 on August 29, 2013, 01:53 pm
has silk road been takin down again?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: bbd82584 on August 29, 2013, 02:23 pm
has silk road been takin down again?

Yeah, I get a "can't establish connection" error message.  What's up?
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: silo on August 29, 2013, 02:38 pm
Gonna be great, we'd love to see some message features (mailing lists, send to multiple addresses, etc.) as well!
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Vanquish on August 29, 2013, 02:49 pm
The wording is a joke "WOW outstanding"? As Vanquish said, is it really necessary to be reminded this site is aiming at american teens as the average user?
Great thing you did some changes. Please think about the consequence beforehand next time. There is a word that goes: Do not fix what's not broken. Stick to it.
Peace out
Jason

Great post Jason, my thoughts exactly.  Karma and blessings coming your way.
Have a great week and weekend brother.

Vanquish
Title: Re: taking site down for next phase of ratings and reviews overhaul
Post by: Jason Bourne on August 29, 2013, 03:53 pm

Karma and blessings coming your way.
Have a great week and weekend brother.

Much obliged Vanquish
+1 to you.

Peace out
Jason