Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on August 14, 2013, 11:41 pm
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There have been some issues with the exchanges lately. Mt Gox's market share has dropped substantially, and its price has diverged from the other exchanges. Many buyers buy from exchangers who base off of the mtgox rate, while the sellers prefer the other rate. So, we have to compromise. Until further notice, we will use the current average of mtgox and bitstamp, the two largest exchanges and update every hour. I hope this is agreeable to everyone.
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How about an option to allow vendors to select the exchange?
I mean here in Canada our main exchange site, cavirtex, is undervalued $10/btc on average. If you move 100 BTC that is a $1000 loss right there.
WS
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An hour is a long time in the Bitcoin universe
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How about an option to allow vendors to select the exchange?
I mean here in Canada our main exchange site, cavirtex, is undervalued $10/btc on average. If you move 100 BTC that is a $1000 loss right there.
WS
dumb fuckin beeeyatch
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this is what happens when you intervene in markets.
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DPR,
I saw the buyer's uproar at your temporarily eliminating MtGox and I understand that you are in the challenging position of trying to keep everyone happy. Would you consider slowly eliminating MtGox over a reasonable period of time. Say 2to 3 weeks?
Have a great day people!
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we'll just keep it at this. It's more important to have a predictable standard so vendors can adjust to it based on their own circumstances. If it changes I will let everyone know.
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Once you completely diverge from the Mt Gox rating, you will have decreased their legitimacy to the point of no return. Choose your next ally wisely, for I never liked Mt Gox to begin with.
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It seemed to me that buyers were getting an unfair markup on their bitcoin. All they have to do is get the bitcoin from other exchange services that more closely reflect the SR price and the problem is solved.
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Some people are going to prefer the MtGox price be factored in, and some aren't. That's just how it is. Yall know this though, I'm not talking to a bunch of little kids.
The main thing that I care about is consistency. I can work with any exchange rate as long as I know where the price is coming from... And in the past week or so I've benefitted from the new exchange rates. I've been using CoinBase to get BTC during all of this turmoil with BitInstant and shit getting hectic on the Tor network, and they sell for $5-10 cheaper on CB then they're valued on SR. So I get a few bucks extra per coin right now, kinda nice.
DPR, keep it real homie. I respect you more than most people I know and I've never even met you.
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It seemed to me that buyers were getting an unfair markup on their bitcoin. All they have to do is get the bitcoin from other exchange services that more closely reflect the SR price and the problem is solved.
So you suggest that buyers volunteer to pay above market prices just so vendors can feel better? Sorry friend, communism may be a beautiful idea, but it doesn't work very well. Buyers should get their bitcoins as cheap as possibe and vendors must raise prices to balance the equation. It's ALL supply/demand.
Cheers!
PS
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It looks like mtgox does triple the USD volume of bitstamp. Add other currencies and it's more. http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
As much as mtgox sucks, they are the most liquid market in the bitcoin universe.
I don't know how it's possible, but there is a 12% difference between the spot prices of the two markets.
I respect that we want to ignore mtgox, but if we want honest pricing then it's not a good idea to ignore the market where the greatest amount of coins trade.
Is it possible to multiply the volume of each exchange in determining the weight it has on the SR price? something like: [(last price Market A)(volume Market A)/(Volume sum A and B)] + [(last price Market B)(volume Market B)/(Volume sum A and B)] = SR price
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I like the comprise as it stands until these exchanges cut down on the 10% or whatever difference between them. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the prices return to normal across all exchanges.
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I like the comprise as it stands until these exchanges cut down on the 10% or whatever difference between them. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the prices return to normal across all exchanges.
US regulators clamped down on US citizens moving cash into MtGox via Dwolla. The effect is that it's created a shortage [Edit: surplus not shortage] of USD in the MtGox exchange. If one could easily move money and bitcoins between exchanges, one could make a nice profit from arbitrage until the arbitrage equalized the markets. Because the regulations are preventing the markets from behaving normally, the MtGox price is continuing to rise against the other exchanges.
It's not just a matter of time before prices return to normal. More likely, MtGox will lose a huge part of it's market share for good. Balance might be restored if US regulators clamped down on all exchanges simultaneously, or backed off of MtGox(which won't happen).
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An average is the most reasonable compromise.
Thank you.
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It looks like mtgox does triple the USD volume of bitstamp. Add other currencies and it's more. http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
As much as mtgox sucks, they are the most liquid market in the bitcoin universe.
I don't know how it's possible, but there is a 12% difference between the spot prices of the two markets.
I respect that we want to ignore mtgox, but if we want honest pricing then it's not a good idea to ignore the market where the greatest amount of coins trade.
Is it possible to multiply the volume of each exchange in determining the weight it has on the SR price? something like: [(last price Market A)(volume Market A)/(Volume sum A and B)] + [(last price Market B)(volume Market B)/(Volume sum A and B)] = SR price
mtgox might do more volume however the problem is YOU CAN'T WITHDRAWAL on gox. You haven't been able to for months now. That's why sellers are irritated. We can't possibly get that rate because even if you wanted to cash out on gox you couldn't. We we have to go to other exchangers.
Before this problem existed, most of the btc exchanges were close to gox rates. However since this happened, other exchanges have been DRAMATICALLY lower.
If you can only buy but can't withdraw on GOX then there influence should be cut in half.
I say drop em but if we have to keep em, there influence should be less since you can't withdraw.
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+1
Mt. Gox is garbage. The decision to average prices from there and Bitstamp is the best thing that could've been done under the circumstances.
Once you completely diverge from the Mt Gox rating, you will have decreased their legitimacy to the point of no return. Choose your next ally wisely, for I never liked Mt Gox to begin with.
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I'll work with that.
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hopefully - by by to MtGox soon!
they are a destructive - LE cooperating - sad member of the bitcoin community.
it would be like good riddance to bad rubbish if they faded into memory.
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So you can't withdraw USD fiat from Gox... who then is selling BTC on Gox and what are they doing with their IOUs?
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So you can't withdraw USD fiat from Gox... who then is selling BTC on Gox and what are they doing with their IOUs?
My understanding is that it was US citizens who couldn't withdraw USD. They have begun to allow withdrawals by US citizens, but orders are backed up and taking weeks to fill.
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+1 Mt Gox is poop!
Anyone ever think LTC will make it on the road?
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So you can't withdraw USD fiat from Gox... who then is selling BTC on Gox and what are they doing with their IOUs?
My understanding is that it was US citizens who couldn't withdraw USD. They have begun to allow withdrawals by US citizens, but orders are backed up and taking weeks to fill.
They initially said USD withdrawals would be suspended for 2 weeks. This was in mid-June. After two weeks they said they were processing USD withdrawals manually but working to catch up (stated on July 4th). On August 5th they released another statement which did not directly address the withdrawal issue, but rather explained there is now also a 10-day delay on deposits. Contrary to their statements I know of people who have been waiting a month since they initiated a wire transfer (withdrawal) and they still haven't seen their funds.
You are correct in that you can withdraw other currencies to non-US bank accounts but those markets are separate from the USD/BTC market. For example the EUR/BTC gox volume is only a tenth of the USD/BTC volume. It is possible that some are able to withdraw their USD to a non-US bank but I am sure there are exchange fees added on by the banks. I suppose it is possible that traders utilizing this arbitrage are keeping the Gox USD volume afloat.
I suppose another way of putting it is "who is buying BTC on Gox?"
Whoever it is has decided that they are willing to pay $12 (>10%!) more then they would pay at any of the other markets and if making a USD deposit they are also willing to wait 10+ days before they can trade their fiat USD for coins. The only people I can imagine buying BTC at this rate are the ones forced to because they are holding Gox IOUs and going back to BTC is the only way to access their money. Are that many regular bitcoin buyers really still going to Gox for their coin needs?
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+1 Mt Gox is poop!
Anyone ever think LTC will make it on the road?
No. Pretty sure DPR has stated that it stays with BTC. As long as there is demand for BTC, there will be some way to exchange it. Unfortunately though, there are still going to be fees associated whether your a buyer or seller. The overheads are only a compromise for the benefits of security and service provided to us.
As with any type of currency exchange, there is no real way to stop fluctuations and variances in the price UNLESS SR decides to experiment with an internally FIXED SR rate. for eg. something simple like $100/BTC
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Problem is as DPR post in start, most BTC sales are off of MT Gox prices. Local bitcoins, private exchanges etc. By using other then mt gox price buyers get screwed also because BTC they buy are worth less on SR now.
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Ideally I would prefer the Bitstamp rate, but I understand this may not be exactly what the customers want. Thanks for considering carfully, but if I had to vote, I would say Bitstamp only. Gox is pretty much dead to the world, with most people not being able to withdraw funds at all from them.
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Coinbase is smooth in and out, and they went to an avg price as well
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Gox is dead, I'm irritated that their price is influencing SR's bitcoin price at all. The price on bitstamp now is 103.8 and mtgox is 118.8. all the other major exchanges are right around bitstamp's price, campbx is 103.5 now, btc-e is 100.2. BUT, SR's price is 111.8. Because of this, I am losing about 8% off the bat immediately from all of my sales because of Gox. Don't you think if Gox mattered anymore, people would be using them? With such a price difference, all you have to do would be to but coins on bitstamp, transfer them to Gox and sell them, then withdraw by bank wire, and you make about 7 or 8%. All you'd need was enough liquidity and you would be rich, except Gox hasn't processed a fiat withdrawal in 2 months, their price for the bitcoin doesn't mean anything at all, it is artificially inflated, we all know this. So I'm irriated that I'm losing 8% on all my orders. Please Please Please DPR, DROP Mtgox from influencing the price of the bitcoin on SR at all, it's hurting the vendors.
QM
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Problem is as DPR post in start, most BTC sales are off of MT Gox prices. Local bitcoins, private exchanges etc. By using other then mt gox price buyers get screwed also because BTC they buy are worth less on SR now.
No OTC exchange in Europe uses MtGox prices. I understand that's probably not the case in America. Hence why it's best to use an average ATM. Vendors should raise their prices to counter the shortfall.
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Problem is as DPR post in start, most BTC sales are off of MT Gox prices. Local bitcoins, private exchanges etc. By using other then mt gox price buyers get screwed also because BTC they buy are worth less on SR now.
No OTC exchange in Europe uses MtGox prices. I understand that's probably not the case in America. Hence why it's best to use an average ATM. Vendors should raise their prices to counter the shortfall.
Of course this means vendor collusion which flies in the face of what this place is supposed to be but it's a fucked up situation at the moment.
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okay sorry to go offtopic and rant but....
Marcel? what kind of bullshit hippie counter culture revolutionary bullshit have you built up in your drug addled mind?
what this place stands for?
Its the silk fucking road....look it up....study its namesake a moment.
This place stands for the almighty btc at the cost of whatever limit the administration is comfortable with risking incarceration for occlusion and conspiracy with.
This place stands for giving drug dealers a way to charge a significantly higher than retail price for the convenience of checking the mailbox instead of sketchy back alley bs. This place stands for making DPR MAD FAT STACKS of BTC skimming everybody. Which he should. Hell you should to....go start a site...post some stuff to mainstream media outlets....ship some smack to some 4th graders, and a human kidney to a sick politicians wife....narc your site out to the media, the cops, the politicians opposing party....then sit back and wait LOL
Point being....there is no idealism here. there is capitalism. when someone other than an alphabet boy makes a vendor listing that says something like...
I believe that every person in the world should open their eyes up to the wonders of LSD so Ive robbed a dozen chemical houses, taken a dozen classes, and made a barrell of liquid that I am vending here for the price of shipping 1fl oz at a time....but only if you promise not to sell it....just give it all away
Until then its all just business, your vendor seems like hes such a great guy....he really cares......well he is a good vendor because hes worked you like a high dollar stripper. Thats sales....reality....and silk road.
again sorry for the rant....I happilly paid the SR premium to reencounter an old friend this evening... :)
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okay sorry to go offtopic and rant but....
Marcel? what kind of bullshit hippie counter culture revolutionary bullshit have you built up in your drug addled mind?
what this place stands for?
Its the silk fucking road....look it up....study its namesake a moment.
This place stands for the almighty btc at the cost of whatever limit the administration is comfortable with risking incarceration for occlusion and conspiracy with.
This place stands for giving drug dealers a way to charge a significantly higher than retail price for the convenience of checking the mailbox instead of sketchy back alley bs. This place stands for making DPR MAD FAT STACKS of BTC skimming everybody. Which he should. Hell you should to....go start a site...post some stuff to mainstream media outlets....ship some smack to some 4th graders, and a human kidney to a sick politicians wife....narc your site out to the media, the cops, the politicians opposing party....then sit back and wait LOL
Point being....there is no idealism here. there is capitalism. when someone other than an alphabet boy makes a vendor listing that says something like...
I believe that every person in the world should open their eyes up to the wonders of LSD so Ive robbed a dozen chemical houses, taken a dozen classes, and made a barrell of liquid that I am vending here for the price of shipping 1fl oz at a time....but only if you promise not to sell it....just give it all away
Until then its all just business, your vendor seems like hes such a great guy....he really cares......well he is a good vendor because hes worked you like a high dollar stripper. Thats sales....reality....and silk road.
again sorry for the rant....I happilly paid the SR premium to reencounter an old friend this evening... :)
WTF are you talking about you complete idiot? This place is a free market. Yes that is capitalism. Vendor price collusion would be a distortion of our free market. You're whole rant has absolutely nothing to do with my point.
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DPR has stated that all profits made from this website are going to other agorist projects to free the world from tyranny. his stated that he only spends what he can claim in an audit so obviously the vast amounts of money going into this site are going towards a higher goal.
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If Vendor collusion means putting the price up 10% so that they can make an honest dollar and not an inflated dollar based on mtgox inflated price than so be it. We need to make a stand here if nobody is using gox to cash out (ive been waiting over 2 months for a substansial amount of money from gox) than why shouldnt we all collude to make things fairer for us and im sure theres some vendors who dont make massive profits on there stock so the inflated gox price is probably having a major impact on there bottom line.
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what this place stands for:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/charter
regarding "vendor collusion" or cartels:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=135769.msg922288#msg922288
Vendors raising their prices to compensate for the difference between the SR rate and the rate they can actually cash out at is not collusion.
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MOTHER FUCKER
DPR you just posted an onion.to link
as ed lover would say, COME ON SON! >:(
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MOTHER FUCKER
DPR you just posted an onion.to link
as ed lover would say, COME ON SON! >:(
LOL...
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MOTHER FUCKER
DPR you just posted an onion.to link
as ed lover would say, COME ON SON! >:(
oops, didn't notice. copied that url from somewhere. good catch!
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Is it just me or would the Thread DPR posted regarding Vendor collusion not open? Sorry if anything i posted was encouraging anything against the rules DPR
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Is it just me or would the Thread DPR posted regarding Vendor collusion not open? Sorry if anything i posted was encouraging anything against the rules DPR
try again