Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: kmfkewm on July 24, 2013, 08:21 am
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1. The government and corporate powers have it strongly in their interests to keep drugs illegal. The police forces are largely funded by drugs, either via taxation to support the war on drugs or via direct asset seizure related to the war on drugs. If drugs are legalized, police budgets are going to free fall and a lot of police are going to lose their jobs. Agencies like the DEA will essentially be obsolete. The police also gain a lot of power because of the war on drugs, if they smell weed in your car or house they can search you, they can arrest people for drug charges and offer them plea deals to snitch on targets the police are interested in, they get all kinds of paramilitary toys to try to fight the war on drugs, etc. The politicians love the war on drugs because it directly funds a lot of their friends, in the case of republicans it funds their friends in the private prison industry, in the case of the democrats it funds a huge portion of people who go to college for sociology and social services degrees. In fact, a lot of sociologists and people in social services have absolutely no skills and make the bulk of their money by teaching classes that people who are arrested with drugs are court ordered to attend, or by being "drug abuse specialists" and working at facilities that people who are arrested with drugs are sentenced to be held at. Many millions of jobs will be lost if drugs are legalized, and billions of dollars going to private industry will no longer be going there, and these are the same private industries that pump tons of money into the campaigns of politicians. So essentially we have a conspiracy to keep drugs illegal between the police, politicians, and major corporations ranging from the private prison industry to the pharmaceutical industry.
2. We are bombarded with propaganda through every possible channel, this propaganda is funded by the government with our tax dollars. If you support drug legalization the fact is that you are still forced to help fund propaganda that tries to convince people that drugs should not be legalized. If you donate $100 a year to a pro legalization effort, it doesn't matter because you are forced to give even more money to the government so they can spread an opposite message. Also, the government has total control over the public school system, and they censor our ability to spread drug legalization messages through the school system or to teach honest truth. It is against the law in debate classes at public schools in the USA to advocate for drug legalization, but it is not against the law to advocate against drug use. There are many government funded and mandated programs such as D.A.R.E. teaching inaccurate information to the majority of every generation of children, which is obviously a very effective method used to brainwash people. Children will believe whatever they are told by authority figures when they are young, this is evidenced by the fact that children are regularly convinced that a magic man who lives in the sky came down to earth and was nailed to a cross for their sins. Children have plastic and easily molded brains, and the government maintains a monopoly on the primary source used to mold these brains, and these children grow up into voting adults with soldified brains that have little chance of changing regardless of the evidence shown to them in favor of legalization. Additionally, the government uses its forfeited assets and control of the media in order to spread propaganda through other media as well.
3. The media has it in its best interests to cast drugs in a negative light. Not only is the media closely associated with the government, but they are also in the business of entertainment. They need to scare people and emotionally manipulate people in order to get higher ratings. They will do this with drugs by cherry picking the most horrible drug stories and making them seem like they are the norm rather than extremely exceptional, they will use drugs for fear mongering etc all in the name of ratings and of course supporting the government. This is not limited to the news reporters but even to people making television shows and such, most of them have absolutely no motivation for casting drugs or drug users in a good light, with few exceptions such as Weeds. For every show like Weeds there are a hundred shows that propagate misinformation about drugs and cast them in a negative light, this is a form of propaganda but most people don't even recognize this.
4. The religious leaders are absolutely against drugs because they compete with traditional religion. If people can get spiritual and religious experiences from LSD and such it could compete with the people who turn to religion for spirituality. None of the major religions endorse drug use and almost all of them are very against drug use of any kind, many are against even alcohol, nicotine and caffeine let alone LSD or marijuana.
5. The Supreme Court can interpret the law however the hell they want, and everybody thinks that whatever they determine must be the truth. We are promised religious equality but some religious organizations are given exceptions from the controlled substance act, whereas people using LSD for spiritual experiences are still routinely imprisoned. The federal government has grown more and more powerful all with the help of the traitors in the Supreme Court interpreting the law however they see fit. How can the federal government possibly have the right to prevent people from growing marijuana in their own homes?! The Supreme Court says that you growing marijuana in your own home has an indirect effect on interstate commerce and therefor can be regulated by the federal government. The Supreme Court says that certain members of Native American religions can use Peyote, and members of certain South American religions can use DMT, but people cannot use marijuana even if it is part of their religion, and I sure as hell cannot use LSD even though it is the only drug that routinely gives me religious experiences. It is clearly unconstitutional, but the traitors in the Supreme Court do not care their only interest is in pleasing the Drug Conspirators.
6. Nobody really gives a fuck about drug users except other drugs users. It is actually to the advantage of non-drug users if drug users are marginalized. If a job will not hire people who fail drug tests, that means there are more jobs available for people who do not use drugs. It is always better to be an Aryan in Nazi Germany, and very few of the Aryans are going to defend the Jews.
7. Drug felons are banned from voting in much of the USA, drug legalization activists are frequently put under surveillance and arrested for drug related crimes, drug felons are prevented from obtaining state sponsored funding for colleges and are highly discriminated against in the work force and housing market which very often leads to their perpetual imprisonment and inability to influence the political system in any way.
8. Drug criminals are cheap labor. Prisons often force drug prisoners to do work for cents an hour, not to mention manual laborer jobs are some of the only ones available to many drug offenders. Not to mention the prison system makes money simply by housing drug slaves.
These are only a few of the reasons why I think we will never win the war on drugs. No matter how much money we voluntarily spend on drug education, we will never match the amount of money the federal government violently forces us to pay on drug propaganda. No matter how truthful our message is, we will always be prevented from sharing it through the school systems, we will always be prevented from sharing it through the television networks etc. No matter what the constitution or law says to our favor, the Supreme Court will always interpret it away. There is absolutely nothing in our favor and every unfair advantage is in the hands of the government and anti drug crowd. The only advantage we have is the truth, but the truth doesn't mean shit to most people and most of them are not even capable of recognizing the truth. The more I think about how unfairly fucked we are and discriminated against we are and persecuted and *enslaved* as we are the more angry I get. I wish that somebody would blow up some anti drug crusaders already, sometimes I think the only way we will stand a chance of ever being free from this slavery is if those who oppress us start to feel the pain of oppression themselves. As it stands they have absolutely nothing to lose from the war on drugs and everything to gain, they have all of the power and we have all of the weaknesses, nothing is going to change until the prohibitionists start to suffer just as much as we do. We cannot use the political system because a huge percentage of us are banned from voting, we can not teach our beliefs through the public school systems because it is illegal to, for every dollar we spend on pro drug legalization programs the federal government forces us to spend ten dollars on anti drug propaganda, the richest most powerful people in the world make much of their money and derive much of their power from drugs being illegal, the media lies to the people and the justice system has turned a blind eye to us at best and at worst they interpret our rights away. What else can we do but violently confront them or remain as slaves forever? It seems like they have left us no choice but violence.
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Excellent post.
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Depends on your definition of "winning".
You may never get the government to change their position, but that isn't the only way to win.
I am devoting my life to fighting and winning the war on freedom, and the "war on drugs" is more like just a battle in that war. The bigger picture however, has much more support then just those of drug users.
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Fantastic and spot on
Very good read, you had me at the first line.
Thank You
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I agree with your points, but I think there are other things to consider. Like Inigo said, just because the government still wants to control your drug use, doesn't mean we haven't won the drug war. With Silk Road, you can now get virtually any drug you want delivered directly to you, with little chance of them even knowing about it. In a very real sense, we've won the war on drugs. I'm not saying it's time for a victory lap, but I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.
On top of that, times are changing as well. Something like 19 states in the US have decriminalized marijuana. I could very easily see the feds giving up the war on pot at least. Also, if the economy sinks into a depression, people will get less concerned with the private activities of others and focus more on their own survival. If the drug war became bad policy with the middle class because of its wasteful spending, it could very well be dropped in order to win votes.
tl:dr
never say never
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I agree wholeheartedly with DPR. Especially his last sentence.
If the drug war became bad policy with the middle class because of its wasteful spending, it could very well be dropped in order to win votes.
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Great read
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The government will never win the war on drugs because people will always desire the freedom to change their sobriety. It's as futile as trying to win a war on homosexuality.
Sure they are locking up people by the millions but considering that drugs are cheaper, more pure and easier to get than ever before in history I'd say we are definitely on the winning side.
Oppressive policies are always met with resistance, and throughout history humans has shown time and time again a tenancy to overthrow repressive regimes and stand up for their personal freedoms. The amount of people who believe that drugs should be legal is greatly increasing, and more and more people who used to be pro-criminalization are now sitting on the fence and debating whether our current drug laws are working.
It may not change drastically for many years to come, but times ARE changing.
We WILL win eventually, simply because we are fighting a battle that is impossible for us to lose.
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This was a very revelatory thread for me, opened my eyes a bit more.
I agree with DPR as well for the most part, BUT I don't see feds ever giving up, for the simple fact that they DO use so much money they make "fighting against" drugs for many other agendas.
It's a business for them just as much as it is for a vendor.
Not saying I agree with feds, but I can see it from both sides of the fence.
Thank you for the enlightening thread guys, will be following from now on.
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I think that this post highlights why the paradigm shift that will allow for a global dismantling of the war of drugs won't occur in the United States, but fails to recognize that their seems to be building momentum in other countries that may undermine the USA's efforts, and ultimately lead to an end of the drug war. It may be hopeful thinking, but just because the beginning of the end won't start in the USA doesn't mean there won't be an end.
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The odds might be stacked against us, but that doesn't mean we should stop fighting. Just the opposite! We need to keep on fighting for our freedom!
And I don't think violence is the answer. Just look at the civil rights movement of the 1960's. The odds were stacked against black people. Yet Dr. King paved the way for change through non-violent civil disobedience. And look how far we've come today.We have a black president in the white house.
Never give up
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Another great post by kmfkewm. I really enjoy reading your posts man, +1.
However, this one is a tad gloomy and pessimistic.
Remember, anything is possible. Change can happen literally overnight.
Don't be limited by reason or logic, we live in an illogical world,
what is true today is proved false tomorrow.
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Consider the real good that could come from all of the money time and effort spent on this crap. :-\
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We have to win the war on the mind before we win the war on drugs.
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Prohibition is bullshit.
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Depends on your definition of "winning".
You may never get the government to change their position, but that isn't the only way to win.
I am devoting my life to fighting and winning the war on freedom, and the "war on drugs" is more like just a battle in that war. The bigger picture however, has much more support then just those of drug users.
I think Inigo makes a very sound point. While it may be true that a TOTAL win on the war on drugs may not be seen in this generation or the next generation, I do feel there is much to remain optimistic about. In my opinion, as long as battles are being won, SR is essentially winning the war on drugs. Each successful transaction is a dagger to the heart in Government's efforts to thwart drug usage.
To the victor his spoils!
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The war on drugs cannot sustain itself. With a prison population in the US of over 3 million people, mostly non-violent drug offenders, the status quo cannot be maintained indefinitely. Silk Road and it's predecessors and competitors make up an incredibly trivial amount of drug global drug transactions. We're talking a few million dollars out of an industry worth untold billions of dollars. In no way in my opinion are we winning the drug war with our current methods of business. We're exploiting a flaw in the system that's had more coverage in the past two years than the past two decades.
The war on drugs will not end in my lifetime. I expect America will turn into a dystopian hell-hole fueled by cheap synthetic drug analogues with crumbling building facades reminiscent of Detroit before I see brand name cocaine and heroin next to cigarettes in gas stations.
Maybe I have an Orwellian outlook on life, but I feel as if America needs a perpetual war to maintain the economy and subjugate the people to more oppression. The drug war suits that purpose perfectly.
The war on drugs will end itself when civilization and morality as we know it fail.
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drugs have always been a silent influence on world events. look at the french at dien bien phu, you think they were there in the middle of no where to protect the local people? they were guarding the poppy fields, their number one cash crop and biggest asset in an otherwise unspectacular colony. makes you wonder why the US then gets involved, and is now involved in another larger opium growing region.
I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist but it is quite a coincidence...
so it's a proxy war, just like most of the wars ever fought
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What else can we do but violently confront them or remain as slaves forever? It seems like they have left us no choice but violence.
The new precision guided firearms are looking more an more appealing every day...
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Every time an otherwise law abiding person is arrested, convicted or sentenced because of drugs is a small loss for our drug-using community.
Projecting the 'war' metaphor onto this...we are losing soldiers.
The war wont be won by either side until this stops.
Violent cartels will kill DEA agents and sleep like babies at night. 8) (like it or not they're on our team)
We can ship drugs internationally, using the mail service provided by the governments who forbid the drugs.
We have DPR and others on our side.
Marijuana will eventually be legalized and hopefully other drugs will follow.
Our biggest obstacle in the war is the fact that they(LE) are close-knit and well funded/organized.
We can't exactly call each other up and decide when to meet in the war room to discuss our next strategy to win this war, unlike they do everyday when LEO goes to work.
These forums are the closest thing we have to an effective way of communicating with our fellow users.
I disagree with the OP because i think there is a possibility to win the war on drugs... but a lot needs to happen before we do.
The launch of SR and other sites could be considered turning points in the W on D but we are fighting an uphill battle, constantly.
If there's any hope of 'winning' there must be an offense. Smoking weed in the basement with a few buddies and running and hiding from LE in the deepweb will accomplish nothing.
Victory is within grasp, but all of us must act if a victory is really what you want.
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I agree with your points, but I think there are other things to consider. Like Inigo said, just because the government still wants to control your drug use, doesn't mean we haven't won the drug war. With Silk Road, you can now get virtually any drug you want delivered directly to you, with little chance of them even knowing about it. In a very real sense, we've won the war on drugs. I'm not saying it's time for a victory lap, but I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.
On top of that, times are changing as well. Something like 19 states in the US have decriminalized marijuana. I could very easily see the feds giving up the war on pot at least. Also, if the economy sinks into a depression, people will get less concerned with the private activities of others and focus more on their own survival. If the drug war became bad policy with the middle class because of its wasteful spending, it could very well be dropped in order to win votes.
tl:dr
never say never
I agree that Silk Road has done a great thing for helping drug users obtain the drugs they desire while maintaining their freedom, but I would compare it to antiviral drugs in the war on HIV. Silk Road is not a cure for the war on drugs but rather it is an antiviral drug cocktail that allows many users to maintain their freedom indefinitely. Some will still fall victim to the war on drugs eventually, but SR has done a great job in helping countless people maintain their freedom. A true victory in the war on drugs would be more similar to a cure for HIV.
Perhaps they will give up the war on pot but if they do so it will be kicking and screaming. The federal government is still busting people for pot offenses even in states where they are not breaking the law, just the other day I read about somebody sentenced to over twenty years in federal prison for running a medical marijuana store. I think it is important to keep in mind that a lot of the people in the middle class actually make their money from the war on drugs, be they police officers, prison guards to drug abuse specialists. A good chunk of people in the middle class have their entire living depending on prohibition, especially people who go to school for sociology and social work.
The government will never win the war on drugs because people will always desire the freedom to change their sobriety. It's as futile as trying to win a war on homosexuality.
The thing is that the government isn't really interested in winning the war on drugs. They are interested in the money and power they gain by fighting the war on drugs. The government doesn't want to eliminate drug use, they want to perpetually be able to profit from and gain power from drug use. If you think about the government as actually wanting to eliminate drug use then you are right, they will never win. But if you think of the government as merely wanting to gain power and funding, then it looks a lot more like they have won. We have millions of people in prisons and on parole, and they have nice fat pay checks and nearly unlimited power.
Sure they are locking up people by the millions but considering that drugs are cheaper, more pure and easier to get than ever before in history I'd say we are definitely on the winning side.
It depends on how you measure victory. I don't think the government really wants to stop people from using drugs, they want to suck money from the masses and have power over everybody. In that sense, people being locked up by the millions is a sign of defeat, but drugs being cheaper and easier to get than they ever have been is not really a sign of victory.
Consider the real good that could come from all of the money time and effort spent on this crap.
For real! I am against taxation and social services in general, but it still pisses me off to think of how much money is spent on the war on drugs that could instead be spent on real beneficial things. Think of how much better off the entire world would be if all of the money spent fighting drugs was instead spent on ending poverty or improving our communities. It is absolutely disgusting, we live in a modern dark ages. If you look around there is a chart that shows technological progress over time, and there is a big two thousand year period where technology not only did not progress but actually regressed. That is the same effect the war on drugs is having, instead of money being spent on things that actually make a difference and improve our quality of life it is instead being wasted fighting drugs, and not only are we suffering from a lack of progress but we are regressing as the war on drugs is leading to all kinds of social issues and problems. It is seriously nothing short of a modern day tragedy, and hopefully in a thousand years a more sane society will look back at these times and consider them as a second dark ages. I think Tupac put it best "Instead of a war on poverty they have a war on drugs so the police can bother me".
The war on drugs will end itself when civilization and morality as we know it fail.
I think the war on drugs will end when the most powerful people supporting it find that they are being assassinated entirely because of their position on the war on drugs. Two lost lives and a bullet can be more politically valuable than fifty years and a majority.
Another point I didn't mention in my original post is that the government has a strangle hold on the scientific research into recreational drugs as well. Not only do they fund "scientists" that say bad things about drugs, they make it next to impossible for objective researchers to even research drugs in the first place. And good luck getting a government grant to do a study on how harmless drugs actually are, not only will you never get a government grant again in your life but you will have a hell of a time even obtaining material to research in the first place. So the "scientists" who study how bad drugs are have no trouble getting funding and research material, but the objective scientists are turned into social outcasts and denied funding and prevented from obtaining research materials in the first place. Then the propaganda scientists publish bullshit and the government propagates it as truth, and nobody is even capable of doing real peer review. So in summary:
1. The government maintains power by keeping drugs illegal
2. The government and corporate interests make huge amounts of money from drugs being illegal
3. The government forces us to fund drug propaganda , even if we are against the war on drugs
4. The government controls many of the most valuable channels through which information can be distributed, namely the public school system
5. The media has it in its best interests to demonize drugs
6. The religious leaders have it in their best interests to demonize drugs
7. The government can interpret our rights away at a whim, and they do this all the time, and we have almost no ability to stop this from happening
8. Nobody who doesn't use drugs has it in their best interests to legalize drugs, they are a level above us in the social hierarchy and why would they give that up?
9. Drug users are commonly prevented from voting or otherwise influencing politics
10. Drug users are commonly used as cheap labor
11. Legitimate research into drugs is prevented and scientists who attempt to do legitimate drug research are blacklisted by the government, whereas scientists doing drug research for the government propaganda arm are funded and have their work distributed by the government
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Lets organize and take the fight to them! Fuck LE.
It kind of goes against DPR's guidelines but i don't think we have to worry about drawing attention to ourselves anymore.
We have their attention! They don't like what they are seeing lately and before its too late...we must act.
If LE could win the war on certain drugs (LSD/Mushrooms) they would, because critical thinking drugs are scary to them.
Heroin, coke etc they will bust people with that forever and perpetuate the war and keep the perks (cheap labor, jobs for LE, taking smart voters off the streets and putting them in prison).
The SR community is growing everyday. We WILL out number them soon enough and then they'll realize they CANNOT beat us...
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eh ... we already have the fools ;D (not you) ???
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Yes, I agree. Organization is the key. There is power in numbers.
Even though this is a David vs Goliath situation, this is an empire built on oppression and greed. It will not last forever.
Babylon WILL fall!
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holy shit batman, chalk this one up as an SR Victory (even though DPR said no victory laps, we can take an extra toke/tablet/strip tonight knowing that every day SR lives is fucking awesome).!!
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Babylon WILL fall!
who silk road ? ;D babylon will burn brother its already written :-X
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While it doesn't even matter if I agree with all your talking point or not, it is TRULY commendable of you to have taken the time to create a post of such length.
I have found that every time (few) that I took the time here on the forums to write a lengthy explanation or expression I always found myself feeling very rewarded personally.
DPR - aren't we just the lil chatty kathy lately? ;)
Always a pleasure to read anything you have to say agreeable or otherwise.
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Shroomeister, This IS truly a great thread.
There is enough information on SRF to fill a "howto: life" book.
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I love SR!! So many libertarians/anarcho-capitalists here, not a statist in sight! I'd say the drug war is only the beginning. Everywhere you look the man is stepping on someone's neck. Heinlein said there are two types of people, those that want people to be controlled and those that have no such desire. I hope young people today will just give up on the idea that the government knows what is best for everyone and leave us the fuck alone for once.
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We still are forced to keep the mentality that everyone is a cop here to survive. Paranoia sucks. That doesn't seem like freedom. We have to think like that with everyone... High rep forum posters, Mods, Everyone. I highly doubt this is true but DPR could even be law enforcement.
We haven't won till the swine are gone or all the bacon is frying!
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the war on drugs is over... drugs won
as long as there are people willing to buy drugs
there will be people there to sell it to them..
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Babylon WILL fall!
who silk road ? ;D babylon will burn brother its already written :-X
No, silly. The prohibitionist police state.
;D
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While it doesn't even matter if I agree with all your talking point or not, it is TRULY commendable of you to have taken the time to create a post of such length.
I have found that every time (few) that I took the time here on the forums to write a lengthy explanation or expression I always found myself feeling very rewarded personally.
DPR - aren't we just the lil chatty kathy lately? ;)
Always a pleasure to read anything you have to say agreeable or otherwise.
I used to love silk road and I was impressed with DPR and the viva la ****** but alas EVERYTHING has changed !
be careful everyone
oh and who ever said DPR(the1st) wrote whatever ? at least have a think about what I say /said use what you got ;D we all got it !
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If the criteria for winning the war on drugs is that the government legalizes them, then I think we could be waiting a very long time.
But if the criteria for winning the war on drugs is that they are made available to the public with relative ease of acquisition and minimal risk, then I think all of our being here on the Silk Road doing just that is proof that we have already won, or are at least winning.
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This is an excellent post. And rather depressing, yes.
However, I differ in some points and it's where I get more positive. As some said times are changing, more countries and USA states are being less prohibitive and people less gullible to the bullshit the government with the media says about drugs. We have anonymous networks where we can voice our existence and opinions and buy and sell drugs in a much less dangerous and more elegant way than doing that in some dark street. We have descentralized cryptocurrencies no government has been able to control until now.
Perhaps the fact that more people are open to say the truth about the war on drugs, i.e. it being a lucrative business for the government instead of a measure to protect society against mean ugly weed, is a signal that we will eventually defeat the war on drugs, although it requires a long time for that.
I don't know, maybe I'm very idealistic, but I believe that someday war on drugs will fall in bankrupt and we'll win it.
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Good read thanks kmfkewm... have some faith brother we will win this thing.
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We still are forced to keep the mentality that everyone is a cop here to survive. Paranoia sucks. That doesn't seem like freedom. We have to think like that with everyone... High rep forum posters, Mods, Everyone. I highly doubt this is true but DPR could even be law enforcement.
We haven't won till the swine are gone or all the bacon is frying!
^^Very good point. But at least we are having successful transactions across the board.
And Joolz, some of the shit you say makes absolutely no sense. No, actually I take that back. Not, some of the shit you say, but 95% of the shit you say makes absolutely no sense. I swear you just like to click on the emoticons and type random words in between them...
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I find it funny that we drug toting degenerates of the SR community (and those like us) constitute the majority of people who grasp the actual purpose of the "war on drugs". It breaks my heart to think of the countless number of people spending decades behind bars because they had too much weed in their possession, as well as the countless tax dollars wasted tracking down harmless grow ops and individual drug users. American prosperity stands on the backs of its marginalized populations, and proponents of drug use and/or decriminalization are most definitely amongst them. As usual, it is a case of a government system of discrimination too far entrenched to change without massive social change on a national scale. And, as usual, that is much easier said than done.
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We still are forced to keep the mentality that everyone is a cop here to survive. Paranoia sucks. That doesn't seem like freedom. We have to think like that with everyone... High rep forum posters, Mods, Everyone. I highly doubt this is true but DPR could even be law enforcement.
We haven't won till the swine are gone or all the bacon is frying!
^^Very good point. But at least we are having successful transactions across the board.
And Joolz, some of the shit you say makes absolutely no sense. No, actually I take that back. Not, some of the shit you say, but 95% of the shit you say makes absolutely no sense. I swear you just like to click on the emoticons and type random words in between them...
HA!!! I was thinking the same thing when I read his post. WTF is he saying? I don't understand. Its word salad!
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I very much agree with all you're points, however as time passes and power passes from one hand to another we will see change, at the moment the governement enslaves us, it's up to each and every individual to take back his freedom, and that is how the war will be won.
For now,
Respect, love and empathy
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You tell someone they can't have something it makes them want it all the more you tell someone not to do something they'll do it all the more so the moral to this story is the day they legalise drugs so there's no need for dealers that's when we've really won the war but untill that time we break through by other means ie SR which is literally showing them it doesn't work give it up so long live SR for laughing in the face of resistance and out rite buffoonery cheers SR. as this here SilkRoad site will be a massive stepping stone in history for the rites of man and woman alike.
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We have to win the war on the mind before we win the war on drugs.
You got a +1 from me for that ;)
We need a new paradigm, that's true.
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Ok, I can see what everyone is saying. However, if one calculates the amount of coke just hitting US shores each year(approx 300 tons). Then add in all the meth, weed, crack, and other drugs that are in every city. Then look at the small fraction le agencies actually catch. Well, most of it gets thru. Thats called winning.
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We haven't won till the swine are gone or all the bacon is frying!
Anyone who has watched the TV show Drugs Inc. or Breaking Bad knows just how much money drugs can make, as opposed to law enforcement, where they produce nothing that anyone wants.
Cops are thieves and liars, and can only make money by fining people or threatening people with prison or death.
Drug-dealers actually produce something people want -- drugs. Expensive, wonderful, highly-prized drugs.
Guess who has more money? Guess who has more ability to fight than the other?
The outcome is inevitable.
Even if you do not have an opinion on the two sides of the War on Drugs, being on the right side of history is still something to consider.
The winners write the history books. In this case, the drug-dealers are going to write the history books.
War is expensive, and drugs make a lot of money for everyone involved. The outcome is obvious.
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Organization is the key. There is power in numbers.
Until drug users realize this, i think LE will have the upper hand.
The funding and organization that LE has is something that we can't compete with.
Some drug-users are selfish and do not care one bit about winning this war or their friends/fellow users getting locked up daily.
Unlike majority of us on these forums, some just don't care about the cause...
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In my mind, wars are never won. Wars only end with loss. What constitutes a win is one side tallying their losses against another's, and with something as subjective as the war on drugs, you can never say it's been won. That is the catch, afterall, knowing you can never stop drug use, the war can go on forever and be exploited forever.
You need to define what winning the war on drugs means dude.
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The war on drugs has been lost.
The reason why is simple. You cannot imprison millions of people overnight.
And that is just the UK ;D
I go to Holland on a regular basis and see far fewer youth smoking weed there than the UK.
The UK loses billions in public revenue and making drugs illegal means that all the profit goes to the banks because drug dealers have to 'wash' the vast profits and declare 'earning' which might be anything from a pizza shop to housing for rent. The profits in the UK from drugs may top ten billion and that money ought to be boosting the economy but instead its owned by the banks.
Take away the drug trade tomorrow and the UK would see a LOT of businesses close down overnight.
The Americans tried with alcohol but as we know now every cop, mayor and official was either drinking or taking pay-offs to allow the drinking to continue.
Human beings are designed to have the ability to get high on a range of substances which just so happen to be here in this world.
If we do not nuke the planet, one day the human race will accept that we are creatures who yearn for a little bit more than the daily humdrum of life.
I've worked like a donkey all week myself, its Friday and 70% of the gathered workforce with me are going to be doing something illegal tonight. Something which harms nobody and we will be discreet also.
We won't fight anyone, we won't cause trouble, we will just get high and we are only talking about a bit of cannabis, some hash, some more hashes we gathered and some yayo if anyone needs plus some E which everyone under the age of 25 seems to be keen on.
Its a normal Friday night in the UK. If the cops caught every person carrying drugs or using drugs tonight we would see a coupel of millions people, from judges to garbage disposal workers, all in a jail cell. We would need to run the courts 24/7 forever, plus build at least 50 more big jails to hold everyone and a hundred more open prisons to hold all the potheads who might be carrying more than personal smoke.
The war on drugs is the dumbest warwe ever fought.
But someone does win. The money goes back to the banks and the cartels will throw away hundreds of millions just to create an impression of being legit.
Drug dealers spend a lot of money so the government does get some of the drug profits back. Why not just take all the prodits? That way we would have purer drugs, less deaths, less health issues and save billions on a war that cannot ever be won.
On a happy note, a buddy in work got pulled over with 4 grams of bud. Cop smelt it and declared it was 'a good smoke'. Cop handed it back and told him he would sooner nick real criminals such as thieves and thugs.
Shame that all our political leaders are hypocrites who have used drugs or know friends who use.
But, to be fair, we all have to deny using drugs. So the war on drugs makes 50% of the population have to lie, either for ourselves (no officers, I'm not carrying anything illegal) and our friends and family who would obviously cover for us.
I do think that people should treat cops with respect. Quite a few will let small amounts go as long as you are polite. This will not work if you have a carrier bag full of buds. In that case, best to run ;D
The war on drugs is a setback for the progress of the human race.
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The war on drugs just makes me really really angry. I can't stand irrational things. The saddest part though is that the majority of people will never understand the truth, because they are already so manipulated down to the core that everything that is different makes them feel insecure, like their whole life is under attack (well, that's what happens if everything you was taught turns out to be a lie). It simply does not fit into the way they perceive the world.
This is the real challenge, someone mentioned the "war on mind" has to be won first. THIS IS THE SOLUTION, condensed in one sentence. People have to regain control over their lives and decisions. The thing is, 95% of the people don't want that because it would mean to actually do something, change your life (with which comes insecurity about the future). We have to be taught what it really means to be a living thing on this planet. It DOESN'T mean that you have to have a respected job, good education, expensive clothes, traveling, luxury.... THESE THINGS DO NOT DEFINE LIFE.
The way humans are organized and how they interact with each other is so hilarious. Highly sophisticated, no doubt about that. Still, most things are so utterly pointless, yet so many people care about them because that's what they learned, that's what people learned for generations.
I have no faith in good societies. The problem is, there are too many humans who demand too much. This will never change, that's what I think.
The war on drugs is just the tip of the iceberg. Everything is part of a huge web of lies that became the truth, because everyone believed in the lies.
There are so many good thoughts and ideas here, looking forward to more in-depth discussion with you guys.
(I am stone cold sober by the way, this is no drug talking).
Cheers,
c13
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So apart from the four pages of fatalistic whining - is there anything that can be done? This whole thread reads like a manifesto of "Why We Should Surrender and Give Up" more than anything else.
I think it's more to do with something no more complicated or sinister than good old fashioned job protection. I see it every day in the work place - people running around trying to be seen to be 'adding value' or justifying their existence - the more useless they know they are - the more desperate they are to be 'seen' to be doing something, anything. We've all seen it, we've all seen the workplace clown desperate to look like anything but a clown - even at the expense of everyone else by putting them down or abusing them or whatever. Competent people just do their job and don't make a big scene about stuff.
Drugs are an easy target. The tax funded DEA's are little more than parasites with a sales target trying to climb their own corporate career ladder by being see to be 'adding value' - so drug users are little more than a performance target to them to get the next promotion. DEA's are just desperate in this economic climate to be seen to be 'important' so they don't get sacked for the useless clowns they are. Otherwise they would have a real job doing something actually useful.
Similarly with politicians. If you can't add any real value, like say, God forbid, actually improve lives through education, health or just being a competent operator instead of a fearful incompetent clown - then find an easy target to beat up on and declare a "Crack Down".
Nothing like a good ol' "Crack Down" when you are otherwise completely useless in your job and completely unable to add any real value to society.
Perhaps if there was less focus on 'consipiracies' and general whining and more on identifying and exposing root behavioural motivations such as this - which may be no more complicated than basic fearful incompetence or self motivated career ambition - then we may make some progress.
I think conspiracy theories are a consipiracy in themselves. By attributing intelligent coordinated malicious intent - we can easily throw our hands up and say "oh it's God, the weather, my pet cat" whatever - anything that tells us we are victims and don't have to do a thing because they are all the bad guys and we're the good guys.
Consipiracies, religion, ideology, it's all just intellectual and motivational laziness that lets us sit back with a smug smile thinking we know it all and don't need to lift a finger - because - well - it's the world's fault and nothing to do with us or our inaction.
So I think it's little more than a bunch of incompetent lazy losers terrorfied of being found out that they are basically useless so they target drug users to try and make themselves look half useful. Even more so when the economy and country is turning to shit because you can then say 'hey look over there and not at me being a useless clown'.
End result. America probably has more top secret cleared agents than competent teachers. So Americans become more stupid every day while incompetent lazy DEA's and politicians happily let you all think it's some 'vast conspiracy' - which they probably find quite flattering considering how useless they know they are. They may even believe they are 'capable' of a consipiracy which only encourages them more to be incompetent self delusional clowns.
Because if the world woke up and realised it really is just run by a bunch of incompetent clowns rather than some 'illuminati' then the world get up off the couch and do put some real effort in to fixing its problems.
Like running in elections against these clowns or just exposing them as incompetent clowns.
Maybe you all need a dirt file on incompetent 'drug war' politicians like they like to have their 'dirt file' on society and people like you. Call their bluff. Destroy their credibility and get them dis-elected or sacked to make way for someone better.
But don't always assume these clowns are even remotely capable of 'consipiracies' any more than a circus dancing bear can perform calculus.
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1. The government and corporate powers have it strongly in their interests to keep drugs illegal. The police forces are largely funded by drugs, either via taxation to support the war on drugs or via direct asset seizure related to the war on drugs. If drugs are legalized, police budgets are going to free fall and a lot of police are going to lose their jobs. Agencies like the DEA will essentially be obsolete. The police also gain a lot of power because of the war on drugs, if they smell weed in your car or house they can search you, they can arrest people for drug charges and offer them plea deals to snitch on targets the police are interested in, they get all kinds of paramilitary toys to try to fight the war on drugs, etc. The politicians love the war on drugs because it directly funds a lot of their friends, in the case of republicans it funds their friends in the private prison industry, in the case of the democrats it funds a huge portion of people who go to college for sociology and social services degrees. In fact, a lot of sociologists and people in social services have absolutely no skills and make the bulk of their money by teaching classes that people who are arrested with drugs are court ordered to attend, or by being "drug abuse specialists" and working at facilities that people who are arrested with drugs are sentenced to be held at. Many millions of jobs will be lost if drugs are legalized, and billions of dollars going to private industry will no longer be going there, and these are the same private industries that pump tons of money into the campaigns of politicians. So essentially we have a conspiracy to keep drugs illegal between the police, politicians, and major corporations ranging from the private prison industry to the pharmaceutical industry.
2. We are bombarded with propaganda through every possible channel, this propaganda is funded by the government with our tax dollars. If you support drug legalization the fact is that you are still forced to help fund propaganda that tries to convince people that drugs should not be legalized. If you donate $100 a year to a pro legalization effort, it doesn't matter because you are forced to give even more money to the government so they can spread an opposite message. Also, the government has total control over the public school system, and they censor our ability to spread drug legalization messages through the school system or to teach honest truth. It is against the law in debate classes at public schools in the USA to advocate for drug legalization, but it is not against the law to advocate against drug use. There are many government funded and mandated programs such as D.A.R.E. teaching inaccurate information to the majority of every generation of children, which is obviously a very effective method used to brainwash people. Children will believe whatever they are told by authority figures when they are young, this is evidenced by the fact that children are regularly convinced that a magic man who lives in the sky came down to earth and was nailed to a cross for their sins. Children have plastic and easily molded brains, and the government maintains a monopoly on the primary source used to mold these brains, and these children grow up into voting adults with soldified brains that have little chance of changing regardless of the evidence shown to them in favor of legalization. Additionally, the government uses its forfeited assets and control of the media in order to spread propaganda through other media as well.
3. The media has it in its best interests to cast drugs in a negative light. Not only is the media closely associated with the government, but they are also in the business of entertainment. They need to scare people and emotionally manipulate people in order to get higher ratings. They will do this with drugs by cherry picking the most horrible drug stories and making them seem like they are the norm rather than extremely exceptional, they will use drugs for fear mongering etc all in the name of ratings and of course supporting the government. This is not limited to the news reporters but even to people making television shows and such, most of them have absolutely no motivation for casting drugs or drug users in a good light, with few exceptions such as Weeds. For every show like Weeds there are a hundred shows that propagate misinformation about drugs and cast them in a negative light, this is a form of propaganda but most people don't even recognize this.
4. The religious leaders are absolutely against drugs because they compete with traditional religion. If people can get spiritual and religious experiences from LSD and such it could compete with the people who turn to religion for spirituality. None of the major religions endorse drug use and almost all of them are very against drug use of any kind, many are against even alcohol, nicotine and caffeine let alone LSD or marijuana.
5. The Supreme Court can interpret the law however the hell they want, and everybody thinks that whatever they determine must be the truth. We are promised religious equality but some religious organizations are given exceptions from the controlled substance act, whereas people using LSD for spiritual experiences are still routinely imprisoned. The federal government has grown more and more powerful all with the help of the traitors in the Supreme Court interpreting the law however they see fit. How can the federal government possibly have the right to prevent people from growing marijuana in their own homes?! The Supreme Court says that you growing marijuana in your own home has an indirect effect on interstate commerce and therefor can be regulated by the federal government. The Supreme Court says that certain members of Native American religions can use Peyote, and members of certain South American religions can use DMT, but people cannot use marijuana even if it is part of their religion, and I sure as hell cannot use LSD even though it is the only drug that routinely gives me religious experiences. It is clearly unconstitutional, but the traitors in the Supreme Court do not care their only interest is in pleasing the Drug Conspirators.
6. Nobody really gives a fuck about drug users except other drugs users. It is actually to the advantage of non-drug users if drug users are marginalized. If a job will not hire people who fail drug tests, that means there are more jobs available for people who do not use drugs. It is always better to be an Aryan in Nazi Germany, and very few of the Aryans are going to defend the Jews.
7. Drug felons are banned from voting in much of the USA, drug legalization activists are frequently put under surveillance and arrested for drug related crimes, drug felons are prevented from obtaining state sponsored funding for colleges and are highly discriminated against in the work force and housing market which very often leads to their perpetual imprisonment and inability to influence the political system in any way.
8. Drug criminals are cheap labor. Prisons often force drug prisoners to do work for cents an hour, not to mention manual laborer jobs are some of the only ones available to many drug offenders. Not to mention the prison system makes money simply by housing drug slaves.
These are only a few of the reasons why I think we will never win the war on drugs. No matter how much money we voluntarily spend on drug education, we will never match the amount of money the federal government violently forces us to pay on drug propaganda. No matter how truthful our message is, we will always be prevented from sharing it through the school systems, we will always be prevented from sharing it through the television networks etc. No matter what the constitution or law says to our favor, the Supreme Court will always interpret it away. There is absolutely nothing in our favor and every unfair advantage is in the hands of the government and anti drug crowd. The only advantage we have is the truth, but the truth doesn't mean shit to most people and most of them are not even capable of recognizing the truth. The more I think about how unfairly fucked we are and discriminated against we are and persecuted and *enslaved* as we are the more angry I get. I wish that somebody would blow up some anti drug crusaders already, sometimes I think the only way we will stand a chance of ever being free from this slavery is if those who oppress us start to feel the pain of oppression themselves. As it stands they have absolutely nothing to lose from the war on drugs and everything to gain, they have all of the power and we have all of the weaknesses, nothing is going to change until the prohibitionists start to suffer just as much as we do. We cannot use the political system because a huge percentage of us are banned from voting, we can not teach our beliefs through the public school systems because it is illegal to, for every dollar we spend on pro drug legalization programs the federal government forces us to spend ten dollars on anti drug propaganda, the richest most powerful people in the world make much of their money and derive much of their power from drugs being illegal, the media lies to the people and the justice system has turned a blind eye to us at best and at worst they interpret our rights away. What else can we do but violently confront them or remain as slaves forever? It seems like they have left us no choice but violence.
hey buddy... i know we never chat here in the open anymore. :) but i got some points.
1. you are correct in your points at this time, but TIME CHANGES EVERYTHING. you think the people of Rome thought that their civilization would fall? the Mayans? the drug war is miniscule compared to this type of stuff... whether it be next year or 100 years from now. things will change. i think we all know people in our personal lives whom have changed their views of drugs from their original propaganda education, ourselves included! did you think 20 years ago that half the USA would legalize marijuana? no one did. the more and more that 'good' drugs (psychedelics, marijuana, mdma at times) are integrated into our culture, the more and more people will change their view. if i hadn't done the LSD i have done, i would be a totally different person than i am today, definitely for the worst. anyone that is not a 'sheep' and is educated knows the drug war is a load of shit. you have DOCTORS everywhere, and even LE (LEAP) that are for harm reduction vs. prohibition. the entire 'war' was founded on propaganda. this is the information age, and propaganda will not change a damn thing. the truth is readily apparent for anyone who wants to learn it. give it time for the conservative maniacs to die out, and most of this propaganda will disappear i imagine. for most of mankind's existence, drug use was widely accepted and encouraged. this little bump in the road (it hasn't even been a century) is not going to change anything. sure we live in a shitty time and it seems long for us, because we live such short lives. its not like it's stopping us from doing what we want. as long as anyone has safe access to drugs then the war is lost. it may not be the prices they want, but anyone who puts pricing over safety is low hanging fruit.
2. the religious maniacs you speak of are dying out. science wins. sorry everybody, but we already found the higgs-boson. most people go to church for the social atmosphere of kind people and to make connections (like the mormon south park episode HEH), especially later in life when you find it harder to meet people that you can have a good time with. i highly doubt 90% of the people that go to church believe fables of fiction in the bible. it still teaches good values and morals. if you need that religious 'fear' to keep you in line, well that sucks but at least you are in line. no matter what happens to me (and i have alot of personal reason for hate of this government/certain people/and even myself) I will not let it change my morals. we all must find our own path.
3. the media is a joke. popular TV shows portray the media as being a propaganda machine. the only news outlet i read is BBC. you do see more and more pro-marijuana even on FOX NEWS, which I NEVER thought i'd see. like i said, internet please. don't believe everything you read, or watch on TV i guess. question everything. their is always an ulterior motive.
4. i think the supreme court deserves a bit more credit than they are given in your post. sure, we may not agree with their decisions but they have a difficult job. interpreting vague laws passed by half-cocked politicians can be no easy task. there is a reason why no medical marijuana appeals case has been escalated to the federal supreme court, because if they did that then EVERY state law would be overturned and all the progress we have made so far would be reversed. oh the government WISHES someone would do this, but lawyers understand their ploy and advise their clients not to take it there, as they would lose anyway and screw over the rest of us in the process. we need to change the law, not the interpretation of the law. i do agree that even they can be corrupted, especially in that recent Monsanto Protection act. proposterous i say. i think that is already back under question though.
5. you say no one cares about other drug users then other drug users. lets look at this in a different light. what about gay people? just because i don't directly care about them doesn't mean i think they should have their freedoms stripped away. just don't hit on me, dude.
6. other than millitary/government, employment drug screens are a joke and anyone with half a brain could cheat them.
7. yes, drug felons are discriminated against... but as time goes by, things change. people change, just because someone had a drug felony a few years ago doesn't mean that has anything to do with who they are today. not all employers are hard-asses. in fact, most like to party!
8. private prison industry is atrocious. i would go as far as to compare it to Hitler and concentration camps. money aside, i would love to dose the people that capitalize on this industry with a gram of LSD to the dome. have fun fucker.
so yes. its a huge scam designed to rob us of our freedom/time/money. but it surely won't be like that forever. we can't just roll over and give up. we must make use of the technologies available to us and push this thing _TO_THE_MAX_. fuck bro, when did you lose your way? this doesn't sound like the n30m3 i know. i remember a guy that spit in the face of the DEA when they took our good friend away from us. they surely didn't get you. don't give up. channel that anger into what you are good at... FUCK THE DEA
now i gotta go do my part and sell some drugs. peace
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I always wondered if the CIA or NSA didn't start SR. Its good revenue, and lets face it in order to gain the most from the drug war, you need as many people using as possible.
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The government should never be in control of drugs, whether legal or illegal
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We have to win the war on the mind before we win the war on drugs.
Can't say that I would call "it" a "war" on the mind, but I do feel that I know your point and I tend to agree that the "way on drugs" is a product of mine.
I actually just typed that, and left it for lulz, but I rather planned to type the following:
Can't say that I would call "it" a "war" on the mind, but I do feel that I know your point and I tend to agree that the "war on drugs" is a product of mind. So, yeah.
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Im from Australia....
but if history has taught anything, look at your history of prohibition of Alcohol.... all it did was end up giving all the money to Gangsters / Mafia and all they did was set up cartels / violence and police / political corruption on a huge scale. And people wanted even more of this this "alcohol" because it was cool and illegal. And because this was illegal, and cartels needed to maintain their influence, there were murders, kidnappings, torture, corruption etc.
Once you got around to removing the prohibition, tax the hell out of it, it takes the money away from Cartels / gangs and goes back to the government. Seizures only count for a very small % of drugs found, probably less than 1% of drug money.
You only need to work out a safe method of distribution, Taxation and Education. Once that's done, most your prison system will be freed up saving you even more money. There will still be a need for counselors to treat addicts, there's always going to be that 1% that have a problem, but at least there will be money from the taxes for that. Besides that most people can just use it recreationally.
And this war on drugs, all it did in Mexico was create an extra war front for the cartels. Now not only do they need to kidnap, murder, torture, extort, and kill rivaling factions, they now have the police war front as well, so now there more of the above.
War on drugs, beheadings, murders, rape, torture, kidnappings, now + imprisonment, where more of the above happens.... WTF
Lets just add more violence to an already violent situation. Fucking crazy
as i Said before
You only need to work out a safe method of distribution, Taxation and Education. You will be putting people in jail for drug distribution related crimes FOREVER.
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We still are forced to keep the mentality that everyone is a cop here to survive. Paranoia sucks. That doesn't seem like freedom. We have to think like that with everyone... High rep forum posters, Mods, Everyone. I highly doubt this is true but DPR could even be law enforcement.
We haven't won till the swine are gone or all the bacon is frying!
Real talk my brother.
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We will win the war and one just need look at the fact there has been millions more drugs invented and propagated, while simultaneously decreased in value (in most places), combined with like slavery prevention isn't the goal but MORALITY is the goal.
So long as we treat our fellow humans like animals for doing something other people who actually do act like the real animals bordering on Josef Fritzl by throwing them into prisons don't agree with, we will still have this war in one form or another because it's the equivalent of a religious crusade (I recommend people checkout YouTube's No.1 anti-drugs troll cindybin2001 to find that out just how much and she's a troll worth trolling but only using a VPN and dodgy acct) for some people.
IMO it's as likely as completely going away any time soon as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and it's caused by a very similar thing, people thinking they can tell the other people how to live on the punishment of their lives or liberty being taken away. You can threaten an animal with physical punishment, but NOT the loss of it's LIBERTY. The very fact that people can be threatened with this is at the core of everything is what drives the drug war
Coming back to morality, it's the thing that will demand an end to this disaster, there is nothing more you can call it. The day the war is over imagine how they will have to open the prisons and free all those non-violent drug offenders like freeing a POW camp after the sogning of peace terms between two opposing armies, while simultaneously the people will be celebrating in the street.
The drug war will be looked back on our history as an oddity and used as the example of the difference between a society that lives with true liberty, and one that doesn't. It will be used as an example how anyone or anything tells you what you can and can't put in your body is your enemy because what they are telling you is that they own your body more than you do, and best of all our culture will advance and change much more rapidly as people become aware of things like DMT and MDMA and it will be like a modern day renaissance.
Imagine when drugs like DMT and psilocybin are legalised, music and art will become the pinnacle or our goals and with that science and physics will explode with ideas. And society will demand the end of patent controlling and telling people what they can and can't trade, where they can and can't trade, who can and can't trade and what means they will be "allowed" to use as a currency to conduct said commerce... that will all go away along with billions of people realising they have been asleep and they were slaves to a system that hated their very existence.
The government would make sex illegal if they could yet there are so many ways to get high it's ridiculous. You can get high on nutmeg or mushrooms that literally grow out of cows shit FFS.
The war on drugs is not a war on people but a war on nature and humans are a product of that nature and to want to explore altered states is human nature, and when you try and show your superior to nature, nature has a way of letting you know you're not even close to being in control and how insignificant you are! It does that in ways such as creating a secret military system of communication that people would eventually come to use against them by not only Silk Road and Atlantis users (who really aren't using it "against them" rather than breaking their unjust laws and allowing the assistance and facilitation of transactions that otherwise would be impossible), but real terrorists like crazy Christian Fundamentalists, Arab and Jewish dissidents and all manner of crazy motherfuckers who are set on control of each other as well as forcing their ideas on the rest of us also use it and some of them are probably on here too no doubt.
Look to the cows to realise why the war will never be won, because the universe is intent on us experiencing these different states so much so that you can pull mushrooms out of the shit of dumb beasts of burden that we eat and that we can find heaven as simply as eating something that the universe makes look easy by this creature by subconsciously provides us with three of life's essentials and is almost the Universe in an animal, it feeds us and nourishes us through milk and meat as well as our minds with it's shit prove without a doubt cows are a sacred creature.
The governments of the world know they can not win it, but like in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, it's not about winning the war but keeping it going.
It will be up to us to stop it and those on our side like Sir Richard Branson, Stephen Fry, Kofi Annan, Geoffry Rush the famous Human Rights QC and Morgan Freeman just to name a few, are our heavy artillery pieces and Silk Road is our Underground Railroad and time is on our side.
The end of the drug war is not a matter of if, but when!
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! ;D
- JWM ;)
to expand on this, the universe is most definitely hell bent on us having these experiences. it saw prohibition coming and albert hoffman just so HAPPENED to get a hunch he need to revisit the LSD-25 molecule. he just so HAPPENED to accidentally ingest the most potent psychedelic known to mankind and have the first acid trip. the most perfect molecule in existence of the universe. literally designed to skirt law enforcement detection. one batch by a lab is enough to dose millions of people. its odorless. it can be laid on PAPER. virtually undetectable even to this day even with the most advanced methods. IMO, a molecule with such profound effects on the mind that holds these properties is no accident yes, universe, thank you. :)
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to expand on this, the universe is most definitely hell bent on us having these experiences. it saw prohibition coming and albert hoffman just so HAPPENED to get a hunch he need to revisit the LSD-25 molecule. he just so HAPPENED to accidentally ingest the most potent psychedelic known to mankind and have the first acid trip. the most perfect molecule in existence of the universe. literally designed to skirt law enforcement detection. one batch by a lab is enough to dose millions of people. its odorless. it can be laid on PAPER. virtually undetectable even to this day even with the most advanced methods. IMO, a molecule with such profound effects on the mind that holds these properties is no accident yes, universe, thank you. :)
[/quote]
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Im from Australia....
but if history has taught anything, look at your history of prohibition of Alcohol.... all it did was end up giving all the money to Gangsters / Mafia and all they did was set up cartels / violence and police / political corruption on a huge scale. And people wanted even more of this this "alcohol" because it was cool and illegal. And because this was illegal, and cartels needed to maintain their influence, there were murders, kidnappings, torture, corruption etc.
Once you got around to removing the prohibition, tax the hell out of it, it takes the money away from Cartels / gangs and goes back to the government. Seizures only count for a very small % of drugs found, probably less than 1% of drug money.
You only need to work out a safe method of distribution, Taxation and Education. Once that's done, most your prison system will be freed up saving you even more money. There will still be a need for counselors to treat addicts, there's always going to be that 1% that have a problem, but at least there will be money from the taxes for that. Besides that most people can just use it recreationally.
And this war on drugs, all it did in Mexico was create an extra war front for the cartels. Now not only do they need to kidnap, murder, torture, extort, and kill rivaling factions, they now have the police war front as well, so now there more of the above.
War on drugs, beheadings, murders, rape, torture, kidnappings, now + imprisonment, where more of the above happens.... WTF
Lets just add more violence to an already violent situation. Fucking crazy
as i Said before
You only need to work out a safe method of distribution, Taxation and Education. You will be putting people in jail for drug distribution related crimes FOREVER.
Tax the hell out of it? Why? So the market can go black again like cigarettes in New York. 60% of cigarettes sold in New York are illegally smuggled from out of state because the taxes are high and it presents a great arbitrage opportunity. It makes criminals out of people who are just trying to get cigarettes at an affordable price. The heavy taxes on foreign goods in Britain during the beginning of the industrial revolution turned a nation of traditionally law abiding citizens into a nation of lawbreakers. Smuggling was a national past time: brandy, wines, tobacco, anything with a heavy customs duty on it. For years, the revenue men fought a losing battle along the shores and inlets of the British Isles. It wasn't until they got rid of all these taxes in 1846 that the crime stopped. It is wrong for the same reason. Its immoral to initiate force. Why would we want to give that tax money to the same bunch of assholes that started this drug war in the first place!? So they can wage a real war? So they can waste it on boondoggles? So they can give it to politically connected corporations? The services to price ratio of government is absolute garbage! Let me save that money from this drug "hell tax". Maybe I'll spend it on my child's education or my own, maybe I'll buy some much needed new boots instead, or maybe I'll invest it and to use to my advantage later while its being used for productive uses now. The point is I will shop for exactly what I want for the best price and the government will do neither of those when spending my tax money. 2% of what we spend on the drug war would be enough to treat addicts and the other 98% of the money we could just keep and use to make ourselves richer. I just think those dirty crooks would just spend it buying votes, wasting it on crap, or oppressing me in other areas of my life.
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You know, I understand the bible/Koran etc etc more than Christians & islam more than most actual so called believers that say they do because they have been brainwashed so much to cause segregation and to stop them coming together under 1 unity.
I understand it through my own research and experiences through life, not what someone told me to believe! I've never been religious but I understand that teachings of these things and understand there profoundness as I'm sure many of you do here. The problem is waking these people up to the lies and propetulary dividing ethics that they force upon the world populas.
But there is big change at least in the UK. No one trusts the government, not even middle-class people over here no more, people who once wouldn't think twice of grassing you up now are beggining to see that this BS are not right. Bank of england as sold 100,000x 1oz bars from Feb to June, that's from just over 500,000 to just over 400,000 in 4 months! This was to keep gold prices artificially down as china/India/Russia etc buy gold so restricting the price from increasing. If you want physical gild now, good luck! You will pay 50%+ over the 'official' price to get that.
The same thing is happening in different sectors. As bitcoin grows and pEople discover its uses and power more fresh, young, forward thinking companies will come to the front lines. Amir taaki had all his bank accounts closed and they tried to screw him over. They failed as he had bit coins and was able to convert fully and travel the world no less. He's a bit coin developer, obviously a menace to society!!! Haha
Anyways, you all forget there there are secret societies all around the world. In India, in Russia, in japan and many others. I personally know some and I promise all of you, these people are working together against the leading secret society of the illumiatti/bilderberg/Rothschild & co or whatever you want to call them. Hitler was apart of another society that fought against the illumiatti and failed. No to say any of these are better but they don't have things like agenda 21 & what not. What we need is these societies fighting so the public can see the truth and start resisting such secretive unhelpful groupings of powerful people.
But trust me all, your consinese will continue when you die, your body consinece will not. Ie, taste/touch/feel etc will be gone. Don't be afraid of death like these narrow minded ologargs like to believe. Once you stop fearing there lies and free yourself from there tyranny you will truly understand that power everyone of us hold!
Peace
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they get all kinds of paramilitary toys to try to fight the war on drugs, etc.
you should also consider who profits on the sale of all those paramilitery toys. the politicians and the major shareholders in those companies are one and the same. its just a round about way of stuffing the tax dollars straight in their pockets without anyone taking much notice.
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I doubt there's much profit for countries in legalizing gay marriage, and only a minority of the population are personally affected by the issue... but it's still getting legalized.
Same with drugs... as Kilgore said, "Someday this war's gonna end."
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I doubt there's much profit for countries in legalizing gay marriage, and only a minority of the population are personally affected by the issue... but it's still getting legalized.
but there's equally little profit in keeping it illegal either.
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The War on Drugs was never created with a purpose of winning. There is no exit strategy, no forward strategy, no defensive strategy, it's only meant to funnel money into the high ranking law enforcement and their cronies, so they can have cushy cop jobs, toys cops can play with, and big government contracts for American companies that should have gone under 30 years ago , its a government welfare check for the corporations, and a hype machine that broadcasted so much misinformation and scare tactics that , they were able to eliminate and modify rights we used to have , for the purpose of protecting the people from our government.As well as a thriving prison industry as an unintended side effect, Im sure it's had a boom effect for big Pharma , even liquor manufacturers and breweries. Corporate broadcast companies are getting alot of government funds to air their propagandist commercials, and scaring the public improves their viewer numbers.Hell , half of the national geographic channel's programs are sensationalized drug reports. ( kinda makes me laugh, every one has some guy's dark , scary silhouette , with a voice altering that sounds demonic,just an anonymous, generic "bad guy" to scare the viewers. when ever an image of a drug is shown - it's given cheap special ,"wubba wubba" effects, with perspective distortions , color inversions, as the narrator spews anecdotal half facts.)
One huge Pork barrel for all the piggies to fill their gluttonous bellies with. Along with all new three letter branches of copshops with new leadership positions for untalented lawmen who never did a good enough job to get promoted beyond what their seniority required for those many accumulated years of half assed service. Pension Plans, paid vacations, and no matter how badly you fuck up at your job, you WILL never ever get fired!
, ALSO...
When they sent those pseudo-military strike forces into the South, and Central American jungles , to topple those so called "Drug Lords" - wasnt that a little like eliminating the competition and a military invasion to control the smuggling lines? Remember those drugs are more valuable pound for pound that , most any other world commodity, most all precious stone or metals, oil, ect and it's totally the US government'ss style to monopolize damn near EVERYTHING anyway they can. Something to consider....
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its a government welfare check for the corporations
+1 just for the way you worded that. spot on mate, spot on.
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We have to win the war on the mind before we win the war on drugs.
Couldn't have said it any better my brother!
1love
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They are growing fears in people's mind, which is defenitely a wrong method, only education is the key.
Whatever is the method, it is good to keep this war active to slow down the use of drugs.
Not everyone deserve the freedom of doing drugs.
Some drugs are physically dangerous and highly addictive, just few have a good safety profile.
Frequent use of any drug can lead to a weak economy, for eg, when i'm under the effect of marijuana, i'm unable to run a project (as a web developer), while on LSD i'm useless to write a small html code or even to turn on my computer.
i vote for the war on drugs but i dislike the method.
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They are growing fears in people's mind, which is defenitely a wrong method, only education is the key.
Whatever is the method, it is good to keep this war active to slow down the use of drugs.
Not everyone deserve the freedom of doing drugs.
Some drugs are physically dangerous and highly addictive, just few have a good safety profile.
Frequent use of any drug can lead to a weak economy, for eg, when i'm under the effect of marijuana, i'm unable to run a project (as a web developer), while on LSD i'm useless to write a small html code or even to turn on my computer.
i vote for the war on drugs but i dislike the method.
Like Drug Abuse Resistance Education? D.A.R.E. We've had that for 30 years. It doesn't work. How far are you willing to go to make people stop using drugs?
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We have to win the war on the mind before we win the war on drugs.
The War on drugs for me IS the war on the mind.
At least it is a powerfull tool.
A means to an end to divide and conquer people in their everyday life.
The war on drugs criminilizes a big group of people.
A form of segregation.
Those in charge and those conspiring with them only want to keep the people dumb and unhappy.
In every way.
Stopping us from finding REAL fullfilment in life because people that are "happy" are loose canons when your goal is to enslave and to rule them.
The real war on the mind's purpose is trying to STOP human beings from evolving to the next step on our journey.Take away the intelligence to try to handle us like animals.
Trying to control things and keep them as they are...even worse..return to the times in history where being enslaved was normal and the way of the world.
Whenever someones freedom is being limited,whenever we let the weak in society down and worse abuse them,whenever we let others go about their merry way spreading philosofy's that take advantage of our animal instincs..THAT'S when we have to use our minds to not let them.
So many things happening in the world can be explained with basic anthropology and biology.
Whenever we do or feel things we must stop and think ..WHY are we doing this or feeling this.
Try to distinguish animal instincts from ration decision.
Now i'm not saying ALL of our animal instincts are bad or wrong.Otherwize we would be extinct at some earlier point.
But some just aren't applied correctly and EASILY taken advantage of.
Xenophobic sentiments,territorial fears,fears of running out food are simple concepts being abused with ideas by politicians and those who are running the economy at the top to make us vote a certain way or to accepts measure that will kick the weakest of society when their down and put people that don't walk in line into that growing group.
Always stop and think,"they" try to marginilize us and create a large group of people that can no longer see the bigger picture due to the constant every day drama created by governments and associetes.
Taking away or right to medicate or to expand our horizon with certain substances one day,making it hard for people to be educated the next.
It's not ONLY for these substances i come here ..it's for those who feel the same and do what they can on their journey to broaden their horizon and that teach others to do the same.
The war on drugs is just a perfect metaphore for the war we are fighting in general on a daily basis.
And the threat is not only coming from governments and the economic sector.
It comes from within our ranks too,we as human beings all need to adapts our lives so that we educate each other so we don't HARM or threaten each other--->thus doing what "those in charge" want us to do like little pions on a board.
Live and let live but always stop and think.
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The first time I took a real MDMA pill and had a real MDMA experience, I knew -- noetically -- that what the government and others tried to keep from us, we could get. Someone made that MDMA, and other people got it to me, and they didn't get caught. That was when I had faith. And the experience itself gave me hope that the story of the universe has a happy ending. And as we continue down the path of love, we journey to that perfection.
There's no need for violence. We don't want to be like those who would force their vision into this world -- no matter how "correct" those ideas may be -- via violence. We have something greater than violence. We have truth. To paraphrase Malcolm X, truth is on the side of the oppressed, and the truth will set us free.
The DEA and Co. are fighting a war. We are not fighting a war. We are liberating ourselves and others, via the Silk Road and many other ways. And we are doing it right here, right now.
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They lost the war before they even started. Just like the prohibition it'll go away. It will take a long, long time but it will happen.
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They will realize they have something to lose when they're sons and daughters start getting arrested for trumped up pot charges.
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Ringo Deathstarr - great fucking name! ;D
I literally lol'd! ;)
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So apart from the four pages of fatalistic whining - is there anything that can be done? This whole thread reads like a manifesto of "Why We Should Surrender and Give Up" more than anything else.
I think it's more to do with something no more complicated or sinister than good old fashioned job protection. I see it every day in the work place - people running around trying to be seen to be 'adding value' or justifying their existence - the more useless they know they are - the more desperate they are to be 'seen' to be doing something, anything. We've all seen it, we've all seen the workplace clown desperate to look like anything but a clown - even at the expense of everyone else by putting them down or abusing them or whatever. Competent people just do their job and don't make a big scene about stuff.
Drugs are an easy target. The tax funded DEA's are little more than parasites with a sales target trying to climb their own corporate career ladder by being see to be 'adding value' - so drug users are little more than a performance target to them to get the next promotion. DEA's are just desperate in this economic climate to be seen to be 'important' so they don't get sacked for the useless clowns they are. Otherwise they would have a real job doing something actually useful.
Similarly with politicians. If you can't add any real value, like say, God forbid, actually improve lives through education, health or just being a competent operator instead of a fearful incompetent clown - then find an easy target to beat up on and declare a "Crack Down".
Nothing like a good ol' "Crack Down" when you are otherwise completely useless in your job and completely unable to add any real value to society.
Perhaps if there was less focus on 'consipiracies' and general whining and more on identifying and exposing root behavioural motivations such as this - which may be no more complicated than basic fearful incompetence or self motivated career ambition - then we may make some progress.
I think conspiracy theories are a consipiracy in themselves. By attributing intelligent coordinated malicious intent - we can easily throw our hands up and say "oh it's God, the weather, my pet cat" whatever - anything that tells us we are victims and don't have to do a thing because they are all the bad guys and we're the good guys.
Consipiracies, religion, ideology, it's all just intellectual and motivational laziness that lets us sit back with a smug smile thinking we know it all and don't need to lift a finger - because - well - it's the world's fault and nothing to do with us or our inaction.
So I think it's little more than a bunch of incompetent lazy losers terrorfied of being found out that they are basically useless so they target drug users to try and make themselves look half useful. Even more so when the economy and country is turning to shit because you can then say 'hey look over there and not at me being a useless clown'.
End result. America probably has more top secret cleared agents than competent teachers. So Americans become more stupid every day while incompetent lazy DEA's and politicians happily let you all think it's some 'vast conspiracy' - which they probably find quite flattering considering how useless they know they are. They may even believe they are 'capable' of a consipiracy which only encourages them more to be incompetent self delusional clowns.
Because if the world woke up and realised it really is just run by a bunch of incompetent clowns rather than some 'illuminati' then the world get up off the couch and do put some real effort in to fixing its problems.
Like running in elections against these clowns or just exposing them as incompetent clowns.
Maybe you all need a dirt file on incompetent 'drug war' politicians like they like to have their 'dirt file' on society and people like you. Call their bluff. Destroy their credibility and get them dis-elected or sacked to make way for someone better.
But don't always assume these clowns are even remotely capable of 'consipiracies' any more than a circus dancing bear can perform calculus.
The BBC isn't as objective as you assert.Firstly, it's a nationalized form of media;Secondly, their published narratives align with the US's puppet media 95% of the time.The war on drugs is about money, the prohibitionists will not go down without a fight.However public opinion is changing rapidly as other members have previously mentioned, in no large part to the internet. I also look back to historical examples for insight into the future. As the 18th Amendment repeal was preceded by NY's states legalization of alcohol, so will the war on cannabis be won after Washington's and Colorado's initiatives. Our country is broke and on the verge of another busting of an economic bubble.Our government's limitus with enforcing arcane drug laws is increasing due to funding.Detroit just went bankrupt and every police officer/city employee lost their pensions....ruminate upon this development for a few...I would also like to comment upon the global banking industry's control of the drug markets' proceeds without government interference. I am wondering if the major public backlash against the "banksters" ie... OWS etc...will allow for public change regarding drug decriminalization/legalization we already have Western Democratic examples of their success( Portugal,Switzerland)
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They are growing fears in people's mind, which is defenitely a wrong method, only education is the key.
Whatever is the method, it is good to keep this war active to slow down the use of drugs.
Not everyone deserve the freedom of doing drugs.
Some drugs are physically dangerous and highly addictive, just few have a good safety profile.
Frequent use of any drug can lead to a weak economy, for eg, when i'm under the effect of marijuana, i'm unable to run a project (as a web developer), while on LSD i'm useless to write a small html code or even to turn on my computer.
i vote for the war on drugs but i dislike the method.
I agree and I can't even imagine how much more productive people would be if they didn't go to church on Sunday. I can never manage to get any coding done at church, and certainly cannot run any projects. The things they teach at church are highly dangerous, and the thought of eternal life is one of the most addictive things out there. Just a few religions have a good safety profile. Frequently going to church can lead to a big loss for our economy, in some states I think they still force businesses to close on Sunday, and corporations are always giving people Sunday off. I vote that we burn all of the churches and round up all of the christians and put them into slave labor camps, for the good of the economy of the fatherland.
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They are growing fears in people's mind, which is defenitely a wrong method, only education is the key.
Whatever is the method, it is good to keep this war active to slow down the use of drugs.
Not everyone deserve the freedom of doing drugs.
Some drugs are physically dangerous and highly addictive, just few have a good safety profile.
Frequent use of any drug can lead to a weak economy, for eg, when i'm under the effect of marijuana, i'm unable to run a project (as a web developer), while on LSD i'm useless to write a small html code or even to turn on my computer.
i vote for the war on drugs but i dislike the method.
I agree and I can't even imagine how much more productive people would be if they didn't go to church on Sunday. I can never manage to get any coding done at church, and certainly cannot run any projects. The things they teach at church are highly dangerous, and the thought of eternal life is one of the most addictive things out there. Just a few religions have a good safety profile. Frequently going to church can lead to a big loss for our economy, in some states I think they still force businesses to close on Sunday, and corporations are always giving people Sunday off. I vote that we burn all of the churches and round up all of the christians and put them into slave labor camps, for the good of the economy of the fatherland.
very good comparison... what drugs mean ? searching for god in "several substances described as possessing unusual properties".
Some religions are aggressive just like cocaine, others promote love and forgiveness like mdma, some are cosmic and magical like psychedelics, etc...
As for my situation, i use psychedelics every ~1 month as a religious experience and to find problems deep in my spirit and fix them.
I can't go far from this, because i have a family therefor i have daily duties.
Now imagine people practicing any religion on a daily basis, we will have extremists, terrorists, and above all, we will have those religious leaders who manipulate people for their interests (just like drug lords) where power and wealth are the primary motivations.
That's why i vote for war on drugs while i'm a regular-drug-user, just to protect the balance in societies.
BTW, i mean by war, educational campaigns, rehab centers, parental guidance etc.. but not jail, fear and salve labor camps.
So, this war is essential as harm reduction, but we are against the applied methods. right ?
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They are growing fears in people's mind, which is defenitely a wrong method, only education is the key.
Whatever is the method, it is good to keep this war active to slow down the use of drugs.
Not everyone deserve the freedom of doing drugs.
Some drugs are physically dangerous and highly addictive, just few have a good safety profile.
Frequent use of any drug can lead to a weak economy, for eg, when i'm under the effect of marijuana, i'm unable to run a project (as a web developer), while on LSD i'm useless to write a small html code or even to turn on my computer.
i vote for the war on drugs but i dislike the method.
I agree and I can't even imagine how much more productive people would be if they didn't go to church on Sunday. I can never manage to get any coding done at church, and certainly cannot run any projects. The things they teach at church are highly dangerous, and the thought of eternal life is one of the most addictive things out there. Just a few religions have a good safety profile. Frequently going to church can lead to a big loss for our economy, in some states I think they still force businesses to close on Sunday, and corporations are always giving people Sunday off. I vote that we burn all of the churches and round up all of the christians and put them into slave labor camps, for the good of the economy of the fatherland.
very good comparison... what drugs mean ? searching for god in "several substances described as possessing unusual properties".
Some religions are aggressive just like cocaine, others promote love and forgiveness like mdma, some are cosmic and magical like psychedelics, etc...
As for my situation, i use psychedelics every ~1 month as a religious experience and to find problems deep in my spirit and fix them.
I can't go far from this, because i have a family therefor i have daily duties.
Now imagine people practicing any religion on a daily basis, we will have extremists, terrorists, and above all, we will have those religious leaders who manipulate people for their interests (just like drug lords) where power and wealth are the primary motivations.
That's why i vote for war on drugs while i'm a regular-drug-user, just to protect the balance in societies.
BTW, i mean by war, educational campaigns, rehab centers, parental guidance etc.. but not jail, fear and salve labor camps.
So, this war is essential as harm reduction, but we are against the applied methods. right ?
I was actually being sarcastic. So what people cannot do things when they are high? People cannot do work while they are sky diving either, should we ban that? Or should we ban playing baseball because you cannot work on html while trying to hit a ball? Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community. This is actually a standard Democrat party train of thought. They love tax, and the more money people make the more tax dollars go back to the community, so if they think drug use will cause people to stop working and getting as much money that means less money for them to take, therefor drugs should be illegal. So essentially they think we are not good enough slaves while we are high, and if we want to get high we should be enslaved even more extremely by being forced to give their friends with no skills (drug abuse specialists) a chance to earn tax dollars when we are sentenced to re-education classes after the gestapo kicks our doors down.
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I'm not sure what the anti-Christian bigotry adds to your argument. in my opinion, it doesn't add any more than railing against Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy would.
I realize that you view society as ruled by an elite with an agenda, rather than as a large collection of individuals with free will. I'm just not willing to put that much tinfoil on my head.
Criticisms aside, I always enjoy reading your posts.
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Apologies for off topic, i don't post much i just felt i needed to say this.
This thread makes me feel extremely lucky to be part of a community with such great minds. It gives me inspiration when i read these great posts to keep fighting no matter what. It gives me determination to succeed and progress in this life and i feel like i stand shoulder to shoulder with an amazing group of talented people.
Thank you all
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I'm not sure what the anti-Christian bigotry adds to your argument. in my opinion, it doesn't add any more than railing against Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy would.
I realize that you view society as ruled by an elite with an agenda, rather than as a large collection of individuals with free will. I'm just not willing to put that much tinfoil on my head.
Criticisms aside, I always enjoy reading your posts.
Oh I don't hold anything in particular against Christians, despite the fact that they are one of the most oppressive forces in the western world. I mean, I know there are plenty of good Christians. Even though a huge number of them rally against homosexual equality, rally against drug legalization, rally against pornography, rally against education, rally against science, rally against medical progress, rally against safe sex and sex education and generally control many parts of the world like a fucking organized mafia, infiltrate the police forces and the political world and covertly and not so covertly force their religious sense of morality onto the entire world (not to mention they are responsible for about a two thousand year period in which not only was no progress made, but civilization went backward, so essentially thanks to religious people we are about two thousand years less technologically sophisticated than we would be without them). I also have nothing against muslims, even though some of them shoot children in the head for trying to learn to read. I actually have met and befriended several Muslims and several Christians who are nothing like that at all, despite such a substantial portion of people holding to such faiths being totalitarian nut jobs to one degree or another. I mean, if I could press a button and cure all of these people of their mental illness I would do so in a split second, and the effect this would have on the world would be massively positive and we would likely experience a massive shift toward freedom across the entire world as well as massive scientific improvements, but it isn't like I am so stupid as to hate Christians or other religious people, it isn't like all of them are completely vile and in fact I know many of them are quite nice!
My argument was not meant to be taken seriously. I don't think that we should burn all of the churches and send Christians to slave labor camps, people should be free to practice whatever religion they want (of course they shouldn't be free to shoot children in the heads for trying to learn to read, even if they think their religion says that they should), just as people should be free to use whatever drugs they want (of course they shouldn't be free to get coked out and rob a gas station). It is just that in my experience most of the people who are in favor of the war on drugs tend to fall into two camps, either they are religious or they are communists. Of course the elite people who are really behind the war on drugs tend to not actually be in either of these two camps, although they often pretend to be (like the communists in the USSR, I mean the political leaders sure were not living under the same sort of communism as the common people, right?). But the two most common arguments from the common TRUE BELIEVER (ie: not government propaganda brainwashed) people tend to boil down to
A. Drugs should be illegal because they are immoral because The Bible
B. Drugs should be illegal because they are immoral because we should have socialized health care and if drug users require medical expenses then it will be paid for by society so we must make it so nobody uses drugs to decrease the amount of money society needs to spend on health care, and also drug use could effect productivity and since we feel we have the right to 60% of the money you earn you should definitely not do anything that could theoretically cause you to earn less money because that means you have less money for us to steal from you
So I don't really feel bad about calling out religious people in the way that I did. They want to trample on my rights to use drugs and I want them to see what things would be like if the tables were turned. They think it is okay to send drug users to prison and confiscate our drugs, and I want them to think about a world where religious people are sent to prisons and we confiscate their Holy Books and burn their temples. I guess since the argument from the other poster centered around the economy it would have been more pertinent for me to say we should enslave all of the communists and burn the Communist Manifesto.
But really my intention was not to trash talk Christians but rather to point out the absurdity of making something illegal because people cannot do other work while they are doing it. I was pointing out that using this absurd logic it would make sense to ban people from going to church as well. So actually I was defending the Christians right to go to church, it just isn't so obvious since they already have the right to do that but I don't have the right under the law to use LSD on Sunday, and according to the poster I argued with this is great because if I use LSD on Sunday I cannot be working on things for the economy!
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What violence do you have in mind?
I feel the drug war isnt something that can be won, as you stated the "system" benefits from drugs being illegal in multiple ways. The drug war makes money and keeps people from heading down a more spiritual path. In turn that prevents people from questioning their governments and accessing true freedom.
However if SR and other sites continue to make it impossible for the police to really do anything about it at some point the voters will think fuck this you know what let them smoke their weed we dont want to pay for a war that we cant win.
At the moment we have many plants, substances that could benefit the human race in multiple ways that cant be properly researched or used as medicines across the world. Nothing protects are children from falling into a negative drug habit other than their own education which the governments are doing very little about.
I imagine most people here have learnt what drugs to do, how to do them and how often to do them from either forums like this, erowid or first hand experience.
I feel that the police see SR as simply something that brings more drugs into countries that leads to more arrests in the long term. They would just love to be able to bust people on this site.
We could go on all day discussing positives and negatives of drug use and the drug war but im finding it hard to see what violence is going to actually change anything? They know how to deal with violence, they dont know how to deal with peace and love. I think it will take sometime but through the increase of positive drug experiences and spreading of peace and love over generations the law makers may eventually see the light.
In the mean time use the drug war to make some money ourselves and love the life you live!
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Defeatist rubbish, we are winning the war on drugs. EU don't have a war they have health and harm reduction policies in the few countries that still criminalise drug possession.
US is on it's way but are backwards indeed.
South America have mostly decriminalised possession of all drugs.
This has all progressed in the passed 15 years. OP why do you deny this progress?
People who are defeatist about getting involved in the movement are either lazy or greedy scumbags.
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Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community.
Why you are seeing life this way? a society is the gathering of all individuals, each one have a specific ability to serve others, doctors, developers, farmers, this is not slavery.
Everyone must offer his skills for a better future, for example, i'm pushing hard to migrate all those malls, shopping centers, libraries, groceries to the online presence... this will help reserve green zones, save huge amount of energy and construction materials... you can imagine the other benefits.
Here you have what happened to me. I have a very creative friend, he is a graphic designer, we smoke weed together and have fun time. so we decided to work together as partners, he manage the graphic requirements then i do the development phase, so together we can offer a complete online service for the market. he didn't put limits for his drug abuse, he lost the ability to learn on new software, difficulty to wake up, difficulty to achieve the job in a timeline and so on. He turned his life, thus my life, thus the society structure to chaos.
I'm not blaming drugs, i'm just saying that some people are not responsible, we can't give them easy access to everything. some say "Guns don't kill People, people do"
everything must be controlled, ranging from weapons and drugs to food and water, but the question is, who we will chose to control all those issues?
If you think that we are and must remain as ONE, then you can't give individuals their own freedom.
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Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community.
Why you are seeing life this way? a society is the gathering of all individuals, each one have a specific ability to serve others, doctors, developers, farmers, this is not slavery.
Everyone must offer his skills for a better future, for example, i'm pushing hard to migrate all those malls, shopping centers, libraries, groceries to the online presence... this will help reserve green zones, save huge amount of energy and construction materials... you can imagine the other benefits.
Here you have what happened to me. I have a very creative friend, he is a graphic designer, we smoke weed together and have fun time. so we decided to work together as partners, he manage the graphic requirements then i do the development phase, so together we can offer a complete online service for the market. he didn't put limits for his drug abuse, he lost the ability to learn on new software, difficulty to wake up, difficulty to achieve the job in a timeline and so on. He turned his life, thus my life, thus the society structure to chaos.
I'm not blaming drugs, i'm just saying that some people are not responsible, we can't give them easy access to everything. some say "Guns don't kill People, people do"
everything must be controlled, ranging from weapons and drugs to food and water, but the question is, who we will chose to control all those issues?
If you think that we are and must remain as ONE, then you can't give individuals their own freedom.
I can choose what gun to buy, what drugs to take, what food to eat and which water to drink, I don't want or need anybody's compulsory force. If you want to tell me which weapons, drugs, food and water is safe that's fine as long as you do it on your own dime. These items are much to important to be left up to the government. Remember the mass starvation that occurred when the soviet union tried to grow everybody's food? Yikes! The FDA has killed more people by delaying approval of safe drugs than by approving unsafe drugs too early by ANY study. If the regulator approves a dangerous drug too early he is dragged before congress. If he approves a safe drug too late nobody complains except for maybe the greedy drug companies. These disgusting collectivist phrases "people are not responsible" and those that would use force against us are responsible? Responsible for immoral behavior maybe. "Everything must be controlled" what dark part of your heart did that come from!? I don't need my life to be controlled buddy, sorry. Control yourself!
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Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community.
Why you are seeing life this way? a society is the gathering of all individuals, each one have a specific ability to serve others, doctors, developers, farmers, this is not slavery.
Everyone must offer his skills for a better future, for example, i'm pushing hard to migrate all those malls, shopping centers, libraries, groceries to the online presence... this will help reserve green zones, save huge amount of energy and construction materials... you can imagine the other benefits.
Here you have what happened to me. I have a very creative friend, he is a graphic designer, we smoke weed together and have fun time. so we decided to work together as partners, he manage the graphic requirements then i do the development phase, so together we can offer a complete online service for the market. he didn't put limits for his drug abuse, he lost the ability to learn on new software, difficulty to wake up, difficulty to achieve the job in a timeline and so on. He turned his life, thus my life, thus the society structure to chaos.
I'm not blaming drugs, i'm just saying that some people are not responsible, we can't give them easy access to everything. some say "Guns don't kill People, people do"
everything must be controlled, ranging from weapons and drugs to food and water, but the question is, who we will chose to control all those issues?
If you think that we are and must remain as ONE, then you can't give individuals their own freedom.
everyone else should not be penalized because your friend is irresponsible. i have friends like that too. they dig their own grave and they know they are doing it but just don't care. it's their own fault. there is plenty of hard working productive members of society that must live in fear because of people like your friend. why should society care about people who don't even care about themselves?
on another note, why do we even need congress anymore? what is the point? this is an outdated lawmaking model. a few hundred people with personal, religious, and financial agendas making laws for millions? this is absurd.
we have the internet. we have the ability for every citizen to place their own vote. we could EASILY make our OWN laws with the correct website/software. don't have any opinion on an issue? don't vote. but at least we would get the majority vote from the majority of citizens who care about certain issues. sure, there would need to be certain protections in place, and much much code verification by experts, but it is possible to get verified bug-free software (think bitcoin, it's never had an exploit against the code itself). a web-voting system would be much simpler to code than bitcoin.
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Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community.
Why you are seeing life this way? a society is the gathering of all individuals, each one have a specific ability to serve others, doctors, developers, farmers, this is not slavery.
Everyone must offer his skills for a better future, for example, i'm pushing hard to migrate all those malls, shopping centers, libraries, groceries to the online presence... this will help reserve green zones, save huge amount of energy and construction materials... you can imagine the other benefits.
Here you have what happened to me. I have a very creative friend, he is a graphic designer, we smoke weed together and have fun time. so we decided to work together as partners, he manage the graphic requirements then i do the development phase, so together we can offer a complete online service for the market. he didn't put limits for his drug abuse, he lost the ability to learn on new software, difficulty to wake up, difficulty to achieve the job in a timeline and so on. He turned his life, thus my life, thus the society structure to chaos.
I'm not blaming drugs, i'm just saying that some people are not responsible, we can't give them easy access to everything. some say "Guns don't kill People, people do"
everything must be controlled, ranging from weapons and drugs to food and water, but the question is, who we will chose to control all those issues?
If you think that we are and must remain as ONE, then you can't give individuals their own freedom.
I can choose what gun to buy, what drugs to take, what food to eat and which water to drink, I don't want or need anybody's compulsory force. If you want to tell me which weapons, drugs, food and water is safe that's fine as long as you do it on your own dime. These items are much to important to be left up to the government. Remember the mass starvation that occurred when the soviet union tried to grow everybody's food? Yikes! The FDA has killed more people by delaying approval of safe drugs than by approving unsafe drugs too early by ANY study. If the regulator approves a dangerous drug too early he is dragged before congress. If he approves a safe drug too late nobody complains except for maybe the greedy drug companies. These disgusting collectivist phrases "people are not responsible" and those that would use force against us are responsible? Responsible for immoral behavior maybe. "Everything must be controlled" what dark part of your heart did that come from!? I don't need my life to be controlled buddy, sorry. Control yourself!
I see, you think that you live under a corrupted government, most of us do, this problem can be solved through clean votes, choose those who are qualified for the job.
Qualified people in the ministry of food and drugs, in the ministry of environment, economy, defense, energy etc... but abusing drugs, using guns and yelling about the government, will not help us win this war.
Anyway, i'm not sure, maybe drugs are the divine solution, they help us disassemble our world so we can put it back together with new features.
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Your idea of the ideal world sounds like everybody is chained to a desk 24/7 for the good of the economy. Why do you even care if other people are productive? If somebody wants to get high all day and do jack shit else it should have no effect on you and only have an effect on them. Your fear of drugs hurting the economy makes it seem like you think everybody should be a slave to the community.
Why you are seeing life this way? a society is the gathering of all individuals, each one have a specific ability to serve others, doctors, developers, farmers, this is not slavery.
Everyone must offer his skills for a better future, for example, i'm pushing hard to migrate all those malls, shopping centers, libraries, groceries to the online presence... this will help reserve green zones, save huge amount of energy and construction materials... you can imagine the other benefits.
Here you have what happened to me. I have a very creative friend, he is a graphic designer, we smoke weed together and have fun time. so we decided to work together as partners, he manage the graphic requirements then i do the development phase, so together we can offer a complete online service for the market. he didn't put limits for his drug abuse, he lost the ability to learn on new software, difficulty to wake up, difficulty to achieve the job in a timeline and so on. He turned his life, thus my life, thus the society structure to chaos.
I'm not blaming drugs, i'm just saying that some people are not responsible, we can't give them easy access to everything. some say "Guns don't kill People, people do"
everything must be controlled, ranging from weapons and drugs to food and water, but the question is, who we will chose to control all those issues?
If you think that we are and must remain as ONE, then you can't give individuals their own freedom.
everyone else should not be penalized because your friend is irresponsible. i have friends like that too. they dig their own grave and they know they are doing it but just don't care. it's their own fault. there is plenty of hard working productive members of society that must live in fear because of people like your friend. why should society care about people who don't even care about themselves?
on another note, why do we even need congress anymore? what is the point? this is an outdated lawmaking model. a few hundred people with personal, religious, and financial agendas making laws for millions? this is absurd.
we have the internet. we have the ability for every citizen to place their own vote. we could EASILY make our OWN laws with the correct website/software. don't have any opinion on an issue? don't vote. but at least we would get the majority vote from the majority of citizens who care about certain issues. sure, there would need to be certain protections in place, and much much code verification by experts, but it is possible to get verified bug-free software (think bitcoin, it's never had an exploit against the code itself). a web-voting system would be much simpler to code than bitcoin.
Plus some of the brightest cryptographic minds have already created proven as secure voting systems that are both anonymous (you cannot tell what a certain person voted for) and verifiable (you can make sure that your vote had an influence and was correctly counted).
Personally I think that the best system says to hell with voting and rather enforces libertarianism in a totalitarian fashion. The second best system is probably direct overwhelming democracy, which means that everybody votes but laws are only passed if 80% of people voting vote in favor of them.
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
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The war on drugs will end when the US dollar collapses and the country breaks apart. Until that happens, the police state and prohibition will continue. That's the bad news. The good news is that you don't have to wait much longer for this to happen. 10 years. Tops.
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No drug in itself is "bad" it is what is in the individual.
What is your reason for using a certain substance? To enhance, for curiosity, exploration.... to escape from something in your life? To cope with loss?
Depending on your intent it can be medicine, or poison.
It is a great responsibility.
The drug war started with a narrow minded view that it is Governments responsibility to protect people from themselves.
Their own fears and paranoia started it. Self interest has kept it going.
Just as there's no money in cures for diseases. People will lose their jobs absent the drug war.
But thus is the case with any progress and that is a poor excuse to keep doing something that is wrong.
The efforts to enforce this "war" has cost unimaginable amounts of money.
But the true sign of a failed policy is the fact that the drug war itself as ruined more lifes and killed more people than the substances they're trying to stop ever will.
An unjust law is no law of mine.
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Their own fears and paranoia started it. Self interest has kept it going.
Right on! Government usually has the most self interested people out there. Self interest in of itself is a GOOD THING. Just not when government is involved. Then it's the WORST THING. Government plays favorites and crushes people and businesses that it doesn't like. Other people who are really tight with government get just the opposite. They get protection. Many of these same people go to work for the government, go back to the private sector, and return to work for the government again. The revolving door in action. These people are the biggest fucking scumbags that exist on our planet. They're the people who work for the military industrial complex, big pharma, big chem and of course wall street. They worship the police state which protects them but fucks everyone else. And it's just these fuckers who created the war on drugs and keep it going worldwide to this day.
Certain people in America and other western countries have been profiting handsomely on the war on drugs for decades. I remember how one of W. Bush's greatest fundraisers when he ran the first time ended up getting busted for being a massive distributor of coke. I'm sure another American bigger than that guy sicked the government after him. Remember the stories that broke about the CIA running drugs out of Laos in the 70s? That's what I'm talking about. Happens all the time. Afghanistan's poppy crop was being burned in 2001 before the invasion. 6 years later it had increased by 20x over. And it keeps on growing. Not a bad thing if supply weren't artificially constricted by governments worldwide. Oh and btw, Afghanistan and Iraq are the money laundering capitals of the world. 8)
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
First off, I wasn't responding to you I was responding to the guy that said we need "clean votes" to solve the problem. Sure, the US government made some laws about marijuana because of Mexicans and cocaine because of blacks but, a lot of that blame could be laid an Henry Anslinger's feet and racism or more simply the desire for people to be controlled. If you were living in America from the 1970's through the 1980's you saw a frenzy of politicians competing to be the "toughest" on drugs. That's when you started being put away for life in America for all kinds of drugs. What is fucked up is all those dirty scoundrels got re-elected on those platforms. I think it is unconstitutional to make federal laws about drugs. i.e. the 10th amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.") That amendment applies to most of the garbage the federal government does. I don't belong to the state, I own my body, I am not their slave to work and pay taxes. The relationship between the state and the individual is completely distorted now. I don't belong to the people. "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%." - Thomas Jefferson
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
really? politicians vote in favor of their biggest campaign contributors, not the people. you want an example? look up the monsanto protection act. GMOs have been all but banned in most of the world yet here we are in america with them legally poisoning our food because monsanto is above the law. how do you think this law came to be? monsanto protection money. GMOS, brought to you by the same company who developed DDT, agent orange, and a whole host of other poisons. scientists have definitively linked GMOs to all sorts of health problems, yet this is legal in america and declared so from the highest court in the land (the deciding vote happened to be a supreme court judge who used to be monsanto's lawyer).
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
really? politicians vote in favor of their biggest campaign contributors, not the people. you want an example? look up the monsanto protection act. GMOs have been all but banned in most of the world yet here we are in america with them legally poisoning our food because monsanto is above the law. how do you think this law came to be? monsanto protection money. GMOS, brought to you by the same company who developed DDT, agent orange, and a whole host of other poisons. scientists have definitively linked GMOs to all sorts of health problems, yet this is legal in america and declared so from the highest court in the land (the deciding vote happened to be a supreme court judge who used to be monsanto's lawyer).
Thank you for yet another example where we can't trust the government to decide what is good for us. We should be able to sue Monsanto for whatever harm they do by making dangerous products period, end of that law. I don't think GMOs are dangerous. In fact GMOs are the cure to hunger. GMO farms are MUCH more productive than non GMO farms. It is the only way to feed the starving masses. Are you going to ban GMO foods for my our own good? If so, how are you better than the politicians that want to ban drugs for my our good? If not then you are on the right track. DDT is a great example of where a government ban has resulted in more than 50 million deaths. Africa thanks you for your concern. The costs of not using the most effective malaria control method known to man are readily apparent. Agent orange, again, you have a point, those harmed should be able to sue and that goes for any other poison.
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kmfkewm, cojack and envioso.. thank you for the further replies. Well i don't know too much about the systems in Eu and USA, as i live in the middle east. Here the problem is, few qualified people show up in the government and the votes are not clean.
but the good side about drugs here, that a very few substances are illegal like cocaine, cannabis and heroin, all the other substances are unscheduled and even unknown. sometimes i got the envelope of blotters and mushrooms, opened and resealed, post office, airport agents and police have never heard of lsd :D.
also we don't have any surveillance on the online traffic.
Come live here :p
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
really? politicians vote in favor of their biggest campaign contributors, not the people. you want an example? look up the monsanto protection act. GMOs have been all but banned in most of the world yet here we are in america with them legally poisoning our food because monsanto is above the law. how do you think this law came to be? monsanto protection money. GMOS, brought to you by the same company who developed DDT, agent orange, and a whole host of other poisons. scientists have definitively linked GMOs to all sorts of health problems, yet this is legal in america and declared so from the highest court in the land (the deciding vote happened to be a supreme court judge who used to be monsanto's lawyer).
Thank you for yet another example where we can't trust the government to decide what is good for us. We should be able to sue Monsanto for whatever harm they do by making dangerous products period, end of that law. I don't think GMOs are dangerous. In fact GMOs are the cure to hunger. GMO farms are MUCH more productive than non GMO farms. It is the only way to feed the starving masses. Are you going to ban GMO foods for my our own good? If so, how are you better than the politicians that want to ban drugs for my our good? If not then you are on the right track. DDT is a great example of where a government ban has resulted in more than 50 million deaths. Africa thanks you for your concern. The costs of not using the most effective malaria control method known to man are readily apparent. Agent orange, again, you have a point, those harmed should be able to sue and that goes for any other poison.
i believe you are misinterpreting my post. i said nothing about banning anything. well i did, but i was just stating what other countries have done (banning is better than what is going on now though). this is not my personal opinion. it should not be legal for them to effectively 'sneak' poisonous food into our grocery stores. GMOs have been being sold for decades with the given impression that they are safe for the public to eat, but scientists have linked them to birth defects, cancers, reproductive issues, all sorts of health issues. this is DDT all over again. the public currently has no way to fight back against this poison mega-corp because they are effectively above the law with the Monsanto protection act, which was sneakily snuck into another bill. luckily we have some good grocers starting GMO-labeling programs (whole foods). it should be law that items sold should be labeled as GMO or non-GMO just the same as the nutrient information is on every package. so everyone should be able to make the decision for themselves. monsanto is doing everything in their power to prevent this as they know people will not buy and eat poison by choice.
personally, i think all monsanto CEOs should have been sent to prison a long time ago. how do you get away with poisoning millions of people? political contributions, that's how.
if people choose to eat a GMO labeled product then that is on them and they deserve whatever happens to them, but effectively tricking people into it, as has been going on for decades, is wrong.
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also we don't have any surveillance on the online traffic.
really? all traffic going through any global backbone is effectively being diverted to NSA or UK intelligence programs and put through deep packet analysis. just because you live somewhere else doesn't mean your traffic doesn't go through our backbones. in fact, it most definitely does considering the amount of servers hosted USA, Europe, and in Asia. I am not sure where you live but i am positive all of these backbones are being monitored and your traffic is being diverted. in fact, since you are international they are probably looking more closely at your traffic, considering its foreign intelligence they are after.
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also we don't have any surveillance on the online traffic.
really? all traffic going through any global backbone is effectively being diverted to NSA or UK intelligence programs and put through deep packet analysis. just because you live somewhere else doesn't mean your traffic doesn't go through our backbones. in fact, it most definitely does considering the amount of servers hosted USA, Europe, and in Asia. I am not sure where you live but i am positive all of these backbones are being monitored and your traffic is being diverted. in fact, since you are international they are probably looking more closely at your traffic, considering its foreign intelligence they are after.
I'm sure NSA and other agencies are monitoring every key i hit on my keyboard. but i mean here in Lebanon, there is no such advanced control systems, even they can't record the phone conversation.
Only sms and call log are monitored.
I mean, living in a third world country have many advantages.
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The war on drugs was never meant to be won. It is simply a control tactic. Humans always want to control as much of reality as possible in order to feel secure. Although there is no real security--it is an illusion.
Spouses want to control their partners. Governments want to control the citizenry. Schools want to control the kids. Your life will be much happier once you relinquish the need to control.
Good luck in getting your government to give up control.
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Great post!!!!!
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VOTES! The politicians where just doing what the voters where telling them to when they started the drug war. That doesn't mean it was right. Majority rule is not fair or just. Its ninety-nine wolves and one sheep deciding what to eat for dinner. The scenario I described about the drug regulator wasn't a example of corruption but one in which it is in his best interest to serve the seen over the unseen. Everybody will see the flipper babies and everyone will demand that someone be held responsible for approving the drug. When the regulator errors on the side of caution the only people he hurts are all the people dying from the disease without the drug and of course the drug company's workers and shareholders. Those that do harm by producing a bad drug may be sued for damages in class action suits and I think that's about all the rules you really need. As for the other departments of government you could make a case for environment and defense but I think everything else is unnecessary and harmful.
Actually it is incorrect to think that the politicians were just doing what the voters told them to do. That is an extremely superficial understanding of the war on drugs. In reality first propaganda was distributed, in the case of marijuana in particular the government had to be creative as people already knew about cannabis and thought it was fine. So they started to call it marijuana and demonize it, and people who were just fine with cannabis were then terrified of this new Mexican drug called marijuana, so it isn't like they really told the politicians to make cannabis illegal but rather they were tricked into accepting that marijuana was to be made illegal. In the case of the synthetic designer drugs in particular, less than 1% of the population even know about the majority of the ones that have been made illegal, so it isn't like they have had any say in making particular designer drugs illegal. It is bullshit to absolve the government of responsibility for starting the war on drugs and keeping it going, because in reality it was not something that was started by the masses and it is not something that would be kept going by the masses if they actually knew the truth about drug prohibition and drugs. Your notion of freedom and democracy is an illusion.
really? politicians vote in favor of their biggest campaign contributors, not the people. you want an example? look up the monsanto protection act. GMOs have been all but banned in most of the world yet here we are in america with them legally poisoning our food because monsanto is above the law. how do you think this law came to be? monsanto protection money. GMOS, brought to you by the same company who developed DDT, agent orange, and a whole host of other poisons. scientists have definitively linked GMOs to all sorts of health problems, yet this is legal in america and declared so from the highest court in the land (the deciding vote happened to be a supreme court judge who used to be monsanto's lawyer).
Thank you for yet another example where we can't trust the government to decide what is good for us. We should be able to sue Monsanto for whatever harm they do by making dangerous products period, end of that law. I don't think GMOs are dangerous. In fact GMOs are the cure to hunger. GMO farms are MUCH more productive than non GMO farms. It is the only way to feed the starving masses. Are you going to ban GMO foods for my our own good? If so, how are you better than the politicians that want to ban drugs for my our good? If not then you are on the right track. DDT is a great example of where a government ban has resulted in more than 50 million deaths. Africa thanks you for your concern. The costs of not using the most effective malaria control method known to man are readily apparent. Agent orange, again, you have a point, those harmed should be able to sue and that goes for any other poison.
GMOs might be the cure for hunger, but while also poisoning the population. That's silly.
GMOs also allow the controll of the food supply, which is happening right now. A lot of people have starved and been poisoned because of Monsanto. That's what they are best at. Far more than they have helped.
Hemp grows very well in many climates and has a lot of nutrition. hemp seed is great as well as Chia seed. Other plants can be grown just as well. GMOs are simply not the answer to world hunger.
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I originally started dealing because authority figures told me not to when I was in junior high school (around age 12-14), and I'd learned at that point in my life that the exact opposite of what I was being told to do by those who had authority over myself that had been given to them and not earned, was an almost guaranteed recipe for success and happiness in my various endeavors. I didn't take it seriously at first, but since I'd always been extremely casual and moderate with my drug use, I began to profit far more than I had expected.
I got tired of the "popularity" and demanding schedule and stopped for a bit when I was sixteenish, so I got a "real job" for a year or so and went to college (skipped more than half of junior high and high school and just lied to the admins of a local CC, and did quite well. After a good bid of that a started selling a little, and it snowballed as it always does, as I was the only source for half of the popular substances (real ones at least, thanks SR ;]) in my area, so the free market chose for me and I started to get big. Big enough that I was beginning to worry about legal attention. I decided to kick the business into overdrive and leave town, which was quite easy. A few QPs of coke, mdma, and a dozen or so lbs of bud later I had a new car and enough cash saved to skip town before I inevitably got busted as nearly all 'irl' vendors do eventually.
I was planning on starting fresh in a new city and pursuing whatever legal (or whatever) profession my heart drew me toward, but the week before I left, something went down I wasn't ready for. I had spent the night at my best friend's house just chilling there (I hadn't 'just chilled' with anybody outside of business relationships for ages because of my demanding schedule so that was a big deal for me). My best friend had been wrestling a heroin addiction for a few months and the previous evening we had had a really nice and somewhat encouraging conversation about life, the universe, and everything, including managing his excessive use of H. A matter of hours later he was foaming at the mouth in an medical-evac helicopter, without a pulse. The EMTs were baffled at first, because apart from his recent heroin use he was a big and generally healthy guy not even out of his teen years yet, and no combination of controlled substances found in his bloodstream were known to be lethal in moderate to large doses.
As it turns out, after I'd left his house, he'd copped some dope off some scumbag cunt who'd been knowingly selling bags from a bad batch of heroin to local kids. A few other families were devastated by the loss of sons, daughters, siblings, and friends that weekend actually. Same batch, same area, same cause of death, and same negligent insect making money off of it. He obviously didn't know it was lethal, but he did know that it was very, very flawed and dangerous. They still haven't managed to stick any charges to the piece of fecal matter to my knowledge.
Heroin didn't kill my best friend. Even that negligent scumcunt who sold it to him didn't kill him either, as bitterly as I hate his fucking guts for his role in it. Prohibition killed those kids. These are the true casualties of the War on Drugs. If society hadn't been pushing this braindead pep-rally in favor of drug prohibition, none of those kids would have had to die. Alcohol prohibition blinded and killed drinking men and women as well, it's almost a cliche that bathtub gin will make you blind.. or kill you. That's why we don't have hillbillies make gin in washtubs anymore, or at least they don't have a monopoly in the gin economy. No, if we want a shot of gin, we go into a store, and buy a product from an organization, with a reputation to uphold, from a store that also has a reputation to uphold. Establishments that have been there for at least a couple months, and thousands of transactions, none of which resulted in death or blindness. If they had, the offending brand or establishment wouldn't be there anymore. In essence, you know that even if you go for the cheap plastic bottle stuff, the fluid you purchase will be what it is supposed to be, and most importantly, as safe as the Gin it contains is supposed to me.
You can kill yourself with good gin, or mcdonalds, or a shovel, or a computer speaker.. But they're not going to actively kill you, and you'd have to repeat the same unpleasant action NUMEROUS times in order to finish the job, so long as they were actually the things you believed them to be. Imagine a world where you could stroll into walgreens and buy a packet of skittles, a 40oz and a teenth of black tar heroin, all shrink wrapped and brightly colored and regulated, by licensed manufacturers that are required to abide by certain standards in order to continue their operations, and then leave without becoming DEAD or having your life ruined for profit.
BRAVO to all the vendors who've been here longer than I. Bravo to DPR and the mods, and everybody who makes this community a possibility each day. If what I am doing on here contributes to a world where ALL drug users are treated fairly and safely. Addicts, casual users, social drug users, knowledge seekers, performance enhancers, and everybody in between has a fundamental human RIGHT to have access to a safe and accurately depicted version of ANYTHING they choose to put in their bodies. I don't give a fuck whether you're a daily user of heroin, meth, pcp, coke, or the ergot family, or a first time user. You deserve to know what you are imbibing, and you deserve to choose what that substance is. Anybody else having that power is.. kind of rapey to be frank. No matter what, we're moving in the right direction here.
Everything I've done and said on here I is dedicated to my dearly departed best friend. Rest in peace **********, we always dreamed big when we were together, and you already know I'll always do my best to make you proud, and accomplish as much as I know you would have if you were still here with me. I won't rest until the war on drugs is as distant in our collective memory as an american president going to war with prior congressional approval and upholding the constitution and all that.
Thanks for listening if you've made it this far. I needed to share that and 85% of my life is a secret to 85% of the people in my life so again, thank you.
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Heroin didn't kill my best friend. Even that negligent scumcunt who sold it to him didn't kill him either, as bitterly as I hate his fucking guts for his role in it. Prohibition killed those kids.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I said a prayer for him and for you.
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Great post. +1
Sad but so fucking true! I guess the only thing we can do is to continue to use prohibition to make money just like those slimy fucks are with our insane private prison industry. CO's, Judges, Federal Agents and cops need to start paying the price too. They need to be in our cross-hairs, literally. Voting, writing to politicians, protesting, etc is all a fucking joke. a way to make you feel like you did something. You are not doing anything, they are completely happy to watch us holding our signs and whatnot because they know it won't do a damn thing and it keeps us from any worthwhile actions like shooting them. Until we are willing to join this so called war on drugs nothing will happen. By join I mean actually be what the term WAR means, any enemy!
Voting from the fucking rooftops is the only way I see anything changing. Start buy reading one of the best and most informative books about freedom you will ever find. "Boston's Gun Bible" by Boston T. Party aka Ken Royce
I know not everyone is a fan of firearms or are not familiar with why the Founding Fathers knew the 2nd Amendment was so important. Probably THE most important right as it protects all the rest especially the 1st. This book is about SO MUCH MORE than firearms so don't snub your nose w/out taking a look.
a few **CLEARNET** LINKS
http://www.javelinpress.com/bostons_gun_bible.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_W._Royce
http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/09/06/22/hunter.html
http://www.freecolorado.com/2003/04/boston.html
http://www.amazon.com/Bostons-Gun-Bible-Boston-Party/dp/1888766069
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The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. 8)
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I originally started dealing because authority figures told me not to when I was in junior high school (around age 12-14), and I'd learned at that point in my life that the exact opposite of what I was being told to do by those who had authority over myself that had been given to them and not earned, was an almost guaranteed recipe for success and happiness in my various endeavors. I didn't take it seriously at first, but since I'd always been extremely casual and moderate with my drug use, I began to profit far more than I had expected.
I got tired of the "popularity" and demanding schedule and stopped for a bit when I was sixteenish, so I got a "real job" for a year or so and went to college (skipped more than half of junior high and high school and just lied to the admins of a local CC, and did quite well. After a good bid of that a started selling a little, and it snowballed as it always does, as I was the only source for half of the popular substances (real ones at least, thanks SR ;]) in my area, so the free market chose for me and I started to get big. Big enough that I was beginning to worry about legal attention. I decided to kick the business into overdrive and leave town, which was quite easy. A few QPs of coke, mdma, and a dozen or so lbs of bud later I had a new car and enough cash saved to skip town before I inevitably got busted as nearly all 'irl' vendors do eventually.
I was planning on starting fresh in a new city and pursuing whatever legal (or whatever) profession my heart drew me toward, but the week before I left, something went down I wasn't ready for. I had spent the night at my best friend's house just chilling there (I hadn't 'just chilled' with anybody outside of business relationships for ages because of my demanding schedule so that was a big deal for me). My best friend had been wrestling a heroin addiction for a few months and the previous evening we had had a really nice and somewhat encouraging conversation about life, the universe, and everything, including managing his excessive use of H. A matter of hours later he was foaming at the mouth in an medical-evac helicopter, without a pulse. The EMTs were baffled at first, because apart from his recent heroin use he was a big and generally healthy guy not even out of his teen years yet, and no combination of controlled substances found in his bloodstream were known to be lethal in moderate to large doses.
As it turns out, after I'd left his house, he'd copped some dope off some scumbag cunt who'd been knowingly selling bags from a bad batch of heroin to local kids. A few other families were devastated by the loss of sons, daughters, siblings, and friends that weekend actually. Same batch, same area, same cause of death, and same negligent insect making money off of it. He obviously didn't know it was lethal, but he did know that it was very, very flawed and dangerous. They still haven't managed to stick any charges to the piece of fecal matter to my knowledge.
Heroin didn't kill my best friend. Even that negligent scumcunt who sold it to him didn't kill him either, as bitterly as I hate his fucking guts for his role in it. Prohibition killed those kids. These are the true casualties of the War on Drugs. If society hadn't been pushing this braindead pep-rally in favor of drug prohibition, none of those kids would have had to die. Alcohol prohibition blinded and killed drinking men and women as well, it's almost a cliche that bathtub gin will make you blind.. or kill you. That's why we don't have hillbillies make gin in washtubs anymore, or at least they don't have a monopoly in the gin economy. No, if we want a shot of gin, we go into a store, and buy a product from an organization, with a reputation to uphold, from a store that also has a reputation to uphold. Establishments that have been there for at least a couple months, and thousands of transactions, none of which resulted in death or blindness. If they had, the offending brand or establishment wouldn't be there anymore. In essence, you know that even if you go for the cheap plastic bottle stuff, the fluid you purchase will be what it is supposed to be, and most importantly, as safe as the Gin it contains is supposed to me.
You can kill yourself with good gin, or mcdonalds, or a shovel, or a computer speaker.. But they're not going to actively kill you, and you'd have to repeat the same unpleasant action NUMEROUS times in order to finish the job, so long as they were actually the things you believed them to be. Imagine a world where you could stroll into walgreens and buy a packet of skittles, a 40oz and a teenth of black tar heroin, all shrink wrapped and brightly colored and regulated, by licensed manufacturers that are required to abide by certain standards in order to continue their operations, and then leave without becoming DEAD or having your life ruined for profit.
BRAVO to all the vendors who've been here longer than I. Bravo to DPR and the mods, and everybody who makes this community a possibility each day. If what I am doing on here contributes to a world where ALL drug users are treated fairly and safely. Addicts, casual users, social drug users, knowledge seekers, performance enhancers, and everybody in between has a fundamental human RIGHT to have access to a safe and accurately depicted version of ANYTHING they choose to put in their bodies. I don't give a fuck whether you're a daily user of heroin, meth, pcp, coke, or the ergot family, or a first time user. You deserve to know what you are imbibing, and you deserve to choose what that substance is. Anybody else having that power is.. kind of rapey to be frank. No matter what, we're moving in the right direction here.
Everything I've done and said on here I is dedicated to my dearly departed best friend. Rest in peace **********, we always dreamed big when we were together, and you already know I'll always do my best to make you proud, and accomplish as much as I know you would have if you were still here with me. I won't rest until the war on drugs is as distant in our collective memory as an american president going to war with prior congressional approval and upholding the constitution and all that.
Thanks for listening if you've made it this far. I needed to share that and 85% of my life is a secret to 85% of the people in my life so again, thank you.
man, that was fucking beautiful. +1 to you. would +1000 if i could.
the world need more people like you.
thanks.
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I think one important factor is missing.
You are judging this completely on the policies of the US. Many other countries don't feel the same way and wish for legislation to turn over. No other country in the world sees the same kind of income from the drug war as the US does and many are starting the see the vast flaws in this policy. Much of Europe is starting to see some form of decriminalisation take place and even (as most recently) Uruguay and New Zealand are introducing drug legalisation. Many states in the US too are decriminalising cannabis and making medical marijuana available. After this takes place it's not such a leap to psychotherapeutic substances like LSD and MDMA being used in that capacity and an overall change in public attitude.
Once other governments start to see the benefits of decriminalisation and legalisation they will follow suit. If enough of Europe has these policies in place, the EU's stance on drugs will change and as a result it will put pressure on the UN to change it's policies. The UN does in fact currently view the War on Drugs as a negative so it won't be difficult to sway their minds.
Even if the US holds it's position on the war, the rest of the world will be opposed and if they continue their actions against it in foreign countries these could be seen as actions of (real) war, which the UN would obviously have intervene in. By this time if the US has not already changed it's stance it will have fallen out of favour with the rest of the world, not to mention the fact that if legalisation does come about, the economy of the complying countries would grow (due to both income from taxation and reduction of a number of different areas of their budgets (namely policing and military as I'm guessing the governments would change their foreign policies also to a more peaceful atmosphere), crime would fall as would unemployment rates due to the huge increase jobs available in the drug industry). If the US does not at least witness this and change, they would certainly become a much weaker world power and if the aforementioned war (worse case scenario) were to occur, America would lose and it's government would be forced to comply with UN rulings (and probably sanctions).
The war on drugs is coming to an end whether the US likes it or not. They can either choose to hold their positions and get fucked six ways from Sunday or change their policies and set an example for the rest of the world, gaining all of the previous benefits of legalisation and retaining their (admittedly waning) world power status.
To all the vendors, I feel for you, the easy (well actually, as I've noticed recently, fairly difficult but at least it's very profitable!) money is coming to an end! However I'm sure your expertise will be needed in the new, legitimate, industry.
PS: I'm sorry if these ideas have already been touched upon, it's a long thread with a lot of writing so I skimmed.
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I originally started dealing because authority figures told me not to when I was in junior high school (around age 12-14), and I'd learned at that point in my life that the exact opposite of what I was being told to do by those who had authority over myself that had been given to them and not earned, was an almost guaranteed recipe for success and happiness in my various endeavors. I didn't take it seriously at first, but since I'd always been extremely casual and moderate with my drug use, I began to profit far more than I had expected.
I got tired of the "popularity" and demanding schedule and stopped for a bit when I was sixteenish, so I got a "real job" for a year or so and went to college (skipped more than half of junior high and high school and just lied to the admins of a local CC, and did quite well. After a good bid of that a started selling a little, and it snowballed as it always does, as I was the only source for half of the popular substances (real ones at least, thanks SR ;]) in my area, so the free market chose for me and I started to get big. Big enough that I was beginning to worry about legal attention. I decided to kick the business into overdrive and leave town, which was quite easy. A few QPs of coke, mdma, and a dozen or so lbs of bud later I had a new car and enough cash saved to skip town before I inevitably got busted as nearly all 'irl' vendors do eventually.
I was planning on starting fresh in a new city and pursuing whatever legal (or whatever) profession my heart drew me toward, but the week before I left, something went down I wasn't ready for. I had spent the night at my best friend's house just chilling there (I hadn't 'just chilled' with anybody outside of business relationships for ages because of my demanding schedule so that was a big deal for me). My best friend had been wrestling a heroin addiction for a few months and the previous evening we had had a really nice and somewhat encouraging conversation about life, the universe, and everything, including managing his excessive use of H. A matter of hours later he was foaming at the mouth in an medical-evac helicopter, without a pulse. The EMTs were baffled at first, because apart from his recent heroin use he was a big and generally healthy guy not even out of his teen years yet, and no combination of controlled substances found in his bloodstream were known to be lethal in moderate to large doses.
As it turns out, after I'd left his house, he'd copped some dope off some scumbag cunt who'd been knowingly selling bags from a bad batch of heroin to local kids. A few other families were devastated by the loss of sons, daughters, siblings, and friends that weekend actually. Same batch, same area, same cause of death, and same negligent insect making money off of it. He obviously didn't know it was lethal, but he did know that it was very, very flawed and dangerous. They still haven't managed to stick any charges to the piece of fecal matter to my knowledge.
Heroin didn't kill my best friend. Even that negligent scumcunt who sold it to him didn't kill him either, as bitterly as I hate his fucking guts for his role in it. Prohibition killed those kids. These are the true casualties of the War on Drugs. If society hadn't been pushing this braindead pep-rally in favor of drug prohibition, none of those kids would have had to die. Alcohol prohibition blinded and killed drinking men and women as well, it's almost a cliche that bathtub gin will make you blind.. or kill you. That's why we don't have hillbillies make gin in washtubs anymore, or at least they don't have a monopoly in the gin economy. No, if we want a shot of gin, we go into a store, and buy a product from an organization, with a reputation to uphold, from a store that also has a reputation to uphold. Establishments that have been there for at least a couple months, and thousands of transactions, none of which resulted in death or blindness. If they had, the offending brand or establishment wouldn't be there anymore. In essence, you know that even if you go for the cheap plastic bottle stuff, the fluid you purchase will be what it is supposed to be, and most importantly, as safe as the Gin it contains is supposed to me.
You can kill yourself with good gin, or mcdonalds, or a shovel, or a computer speaker.. But they're not going to actively kill you, and you'd have to repeat the same unpleasant action NUMEROUS times in order to finish the job, so long as they were actually the things you believed them to be. Imagine a world where you could stroll into walgreens and buy a packet of skittles, a 40oz and a teenth of black tar heroin, all shrink wrapped and brightly colored and regulated, by licensed manufacturers that are required to abide by certain standards in order to continue their operations, and then leave without becoming DEAD or having your life ruined for profit.
BRAVO to all the vendors who've been here longer than I. Bravo to DPR and the mods, and everybody who makes this community a possibility each day. If what I am doing on here contributes to a world where ALL drug users are treated fairly and safely. Addicts, casual users, social drug users, knowledge seekers, performance enhancers, and everybody in between has a fundamental human RIGHT to have access to a safe and accurately depicted version of ANYTHING they choose to put in their bodies. I don't give a fuck whether you're a daily user of heroin, meth, pcp, coke, or the ergot family, or a first time user. You deserve to know what you are imbibing, and you deserve to choose what that substance is. Anybody else having that power is.. kind of rapey to be frank. No matter what, we're moving in the right direction here.
Everything I've done and said on here I is dedicated to my dearly departed best friend. Rest in peace **********, we always dreamed big when we were together, and you already know I'll always do my best to make you proud, and accomplish as much as I know you would have if you were still here with me. I won't rest until the war on drugs is as distant in our collective memory as an american president going to war with prior congressional approval and upholding the constitution and all that.
Thanks for listening if you've made it this far. I needed to share that and 85% of my life is a secret to 85% of the people in my life so again, thank you.
man, that was fucking beautiful. +1 to you. would +1000 if i could.
the world need more people like you.
thanks.
Thanks man :) I sent you a bitcent for being a nice guy.
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Before I read this can you please clarify from which side the title is referring to?
Because the USA is obv never going to win the "war on drugs," anyone who thought they stood a chance suffers from a iq below 60
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Lookup the International Narcotics Control Board. They set world drug policy and are US controlled. They're a UN entity created about 50 years ago which started the War On Drugs before Nixon actually called it that a decade later. Countries are not allowed to set their own drug legalization policies because nearly every UN member is a signatory to the corrupt agreement which created the INCB. Countries that disagree can decriminalize to a limited degree but they are not allowed to legalize. This keeps supply artificially constricted and prices high which allows many legitimate people whose pockets are lined by the drug war to continue to profit from worldwide prohibition. When the dollar collapses and the country goes with it this bullshit will finally end.
I think one important factor is missing.
You are judging this completely on the policies of the US. Many other countries don't feel the same way and wish for legislation to turn over.
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amazing post
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I actually disagree. Maybe not in our lifetime, will you be able to walk into a store and buy a bag of powdered heroin or some shit, but within a good 10 years you can expect regulated marijuana. Over 50% of people support legalization. It is like gay marriage, in that there is more money to be made accepting it then trying to hide it. Who even gives a shit about most other drugs anyway? Weed is all I fuckin' need! Lol.
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Even if certain drugs were to become legal, the stigma attached to them will probably outlast most of our lifetimes to the point where it might as well be illegal.
I am quite content with my drug purchasing and usage being restricted to a largely anonymous service and user base. I have to offer no explanations or be suspected of any wrong-doing. As soon as I walk into a dispensary, I'm a no good drug addict to a good 50% of the population, regardless of legality.
No one should know what mind-altering agents you are prescribed or indulge because it will always be 'that's' fault. SR>Winning the "drug war"
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The whole idea of prohibition is ridiculous. The idea that 'The State' can have governance over our very 'consciousness' is absolutely insane!!!
The fact that they've managed to gain this power over us is a tragedy, and one of the greatest crimes against humanity. As an informed adult, what I choose to put into my body should be my own choice.
The OP made some excellent observations, particularly the points about the corporate prison system in America. That system is without doubt the new face of slavery in the US of A.
I feel the mainstream media (which I agree is part of the government propaganda machine) are the greatest barrier to a wider public awakening to the elephant in the room. i.e. The 'War on Drugs' is a racket. Always has been. The fact that HSBC bank were recently fined $1.9 billion for laundering drug money says it all !!! However, despite this story actually making the mainstream news, the vast majority of the populace continue to float along in ignorant bliss believing most of what they're spoon fed by the corporate media.
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Drugs might actually cause people to wake up to some of the abuses and scams being run by the late modernism and capitalism -Terence McKenna
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I don't know how many of you read the article about the Road in Forbes... But according to the big interview with DPR, the war's over!! ;D
“We’ve won the State’s War on Drugs because of Bitcoin” - DPR
from [ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/meet-the-dread-pirate-roberts-the-man-behind-booming-black-market-drug-website-silk-road/ ]
I also recommend the Q&A : [ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/an-interview-with-a-digital-drug-lord-the-silk-roads-dread-pirate-roberts-qa/ ]
;)
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For a long time i had the idea that our lifetime didn't have opportunities to be remembered in history like past events and people that have contributed to where we are right know, great wars and battles for our freedom and rights teached on every school. But our generation moves in not one but different worlds and this gives us a opportunity to be part of something big, for now outside the reach of traditional government control and that matters because people need to learn how to responsibly handle true freedom themselves. In the way that we should be allowed to make mistakes and learn to be able to transfer this knowledge, and in time when people notice they aren't afraid anymore because they believe in themselves capable of handling it will enriching us spiritually and in that helping us as a whole to move forward.
But to move forward we need this trust given to us. I think SR and everybody involved is a powerfull katalyst in achieving that in the long term and for the short term providing the chance to get a head start on times to come! :D
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I originally started dealing because authority figures told me not to when I was in junior high school (around age 12-14), and I'd learned at that point in my life that the exact opposite of what I was being told to do by those who had authority over myself that had been given to them and not earned, was an almost guaranteed recipe for success and happiness in my various endeavors. I didn't take it seriously at first, but since I'd always been extremely casual and moderate with my drug use, I began to profit far more than I had expected.
I got tired of the "popularity" and demanding schedule and stopped for a bit when I was sixteenish, so I got a "real job" for a year or so and went to college (skipped more than half of junior high and high school and just lied to the admins of a local CC, and did quite well. After a good bid of that a started selling a little, and it snowballed as it always does, as I was the only source for half of the popular substances (real ones at least, thanks SR ;]) in my area, so the free market chose for me and I started to get big. Big enough that I was beginning to worry about legal attention. I decided to kick the business into overdrive and leave town, which was quite easy. A few QPs of coke, mdma, and a dozen or so lbs of bud later I had a new car and enough cash saved to skip town before I inevitably got busted as nearly all 'irl' vendors do eventually.
I was planning on starting fresh in a new city and pursuing whatever legal (or whatever) profession my heart drew me toward, but the week before I left, something went down I wasn't ready for. I had spent the night at my best friend's house just chilling there (I hadn't 'just chilled' with anybody outside of business relationships for ages because of my demanding schedule so that was a big deal for me). My best friend had been wrestling a heroin addiction for a few months and the previous evening we had had a really nice and somewhat encouraging conversation about life, the universe, and everything, including managing his excessive use of H. A matter of hours later he was foaming at the mouth in an medical-evac helicopter, without a pulse. The EMTs were baffled at first, because apart from his recent heroin use he was a big and generally healthy guy not even out of his teen years yet, and no combination of controlled substances found in his bloodstream were known to be lethal in moderate to large doses.
As it turns out, after I'd left his house, he'd copped some dope off some scumbag cunt who'd been knowingly selling bags from a bad batch of heroin to local kids. A few other families were devastated by the loss of sons, daughters, siblings, and friends that weekend actually. Same batch, same area, same cause of death, and same negligent insect making money off of it. He obviously didn't know it was lethal, but he did know that it was very, very flawed and dangerous. They still haven't managed to stick any charges to the piece of fecal matter to my knowledge.
Heroin didn't kill my best friend. Even that negligent scumcunt who sold it to him didn't kill him either, as bitterly as I hate his fucking guts for his role in it. Prohibition killed those kids. These are the true casualties of the War on Drugs. If society hadn't been pushing this braindead pep-rally in favor of drug prohibition, none of those kids would have had to die. Alcohol prohibition blinded and killed drinking men and women as well, it's almost a cliche that bathtub gin will make you blind.. or kill you. That's why we don't have hillbillies make gin in washtubs anymore, or at least they don't have a monopoly in the gin economy. No, if we want a shot of gin, we go into a store, and buy a product from an organization, with a reputation to uphold, from a store that also has a reputation to uphold. Establishments that have been there for at least a couple months, and thousands of transactions, none of which resulted in death or blindness. If they had, the offending brand or establishment wouldn't be there anymore. In essence, you know that even if you go for the cheap plastic bottle stuff, the fluid you purchase will be what it is supposed to be, and most importantly, as safe as the Gin it contains is supposed to me.
You can kill yourself with good gin, or mcdonalds, or a shovel, or a computer speaker.. But they're not going to actively kill you, and you'd have to repeat the same unpleasant action NUMEROUS times in order to finish the job, so long as they were actually the things you believed them to be. Imagine a world where you could stroll into walgreens and buy a packet of skittles, a 40oz and a teenth of black tar heroin, all shrink wrapped and brightly colored and regulated, by licensed manufacturers that are required to abide by certain standards in order to continue their operations, and then leave without becoming DEAD or having your life ruined for profit.
BRAVO to all the vendors who've been here longer than I. Bravo to DPR and the mods, and everybody who makes this community a possibility each day. If what I am doing on here contributes to a world where ALL drug users are treated fairly and safely. Addicts, casual users, social drug users, knowledge seekers, performance enhancers, and everybody in between has a fundamental human RIGHT to have access to a safe and accurately depicted version of ANYTHING they choose to put in their bodies. I don't give a fuck whether you're a daily user of heroin, meth, pcp, coke, or the ergot family, or a first time user. You deserve to know what you are imbibing, and you deserve to choose what that substance is. Anybody else having that power is.. kind of rapey to be frank. No matter what, we're moving in the right direction here.
Everything I've done and said on here I is dedicated to my dearly departed best friend. Rest in peace **********, we always dreamed big when we were together, and you already know I'll always do my best to make you proud, and accomplish as much as I know you would have if you were still here with me. I won't rest until the war on drugs is as distant in our collective memory as an american president going to war with prior congressional approval and upholding the constitution and all that.
Thanks for listening if you've made it this far. I needed to share that and 85% of my life is a secret to 85% of the people in my life so again, thank you.
man, that was fucking beautiful. +1 to you. would +1000 if i could.
the world need more people like you.
thanks.
Thanks man :) I sent you a bitcent for being a nice guy.
I'd like to extend this thanks from a fellow vendor as its good to see this kind of attitude and for the people that fall into scams such as supertrips and alike, Please dont be put off by these idiots! Yes, we all wish DPR would ban these fools but they play a clever game with there selective scamming. The new ranking system may shed some light to people about his tactics but tbh, He should have been banned OVER A YEAR AGO!
Peace to you all and truth and good will prevail, THe powers that be are desperate as they watch there grasp slip everyday :)
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Since the dawn of man, adults have consumed substances. You cannot stop them at all. No matter how hard you try. YOu can send them to prison sure...there are drugs there also.
The bottom line is, you cannot stop adults from doing as they choose, even in the most oppressed countries.
Moreover, There were no real drug policies until The United States made them and forced them unto others.
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Since the dawn of man, adults have consumed substances. You cannot stop them at all. No matter how hard you try. YOu can send them to prison sure...there are drugs there also.
The bottom line is, you cannot stop adults from doing as they choose, even in the most oppressed countries.
Moreover, There were no real drug policies until The United States made them and forced them unto others.
These words are so true. Prisons are full of drugs, and they cant make a prison for half the masses, more over the USA have forced some laws here in the middle east to Destroy the crops of hashish before harvest, hundreds of kilometers of cannabis wasted every year. The decission came in 1992.
"After the war ended in 1990, the situation changed, with the deployment of the Syrian army all over Lebanon, particularly the Bekaa. In 1992, the Lebanese army alongside Syrian forces began launching annual campaigns to destroy prohibited crops. At the time, many Lebanese claimed that the new policy had been imposed by Syrian authorities to improve the image of their hegemony over Beirut and in compliance with an agreement made with Western states and international institutions involved in the fight against drugs. It was alleged that the Syrians were charged with preventing these products from entering the West in return for large sums of money."
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I agree with your points, but I think there are other things to consider. Like Inigo said, just because the government still wants to control your drug use, doesn't mean we haven't won the drug war. With Silk Road, you can now get virtually any drug you want delivered directly to you, with little chance of them even knowing about it. In a very real sense, we've won the war on drugs. I'm not saying it's time for a victory lap, but I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.
On top of that, times are changing as well. Something like 19 states in the US have decriminalized marijuana. I could very easily see the feds giving up the war on pot at least. Also, if the economy sinks into a depression, people will get less concerned with the private activities of others and focus more on their own survival. If the drug war became bad policy with the middle class because of its wasteful spending, it could very well be dropped in order to win votes.
tl:dr
never say never
Exactly what the patched eye freedom fighter said!
Never say never anything is possible ;)
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Very great read !
This is my No2 reason I became a vendor here... Freedom !
No1 is pretty obvious ;D
B4B
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All very good points from OP. I agree with most of it but I feel the conclusions are too defeatist and I think things can turn out better based on a pragmatic mindset. I feel the entire first post by OP should have been preceded by "as is stands now."
Read this article: (CLEARNET) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/science/study-in-science-shows-end-of-history-illusion.html?_r=0
Basically, this phenomenon can be related to the entire human race as a whole.
All it takes is 3 generations to pass when the human condition will change to something that we can never fully predict, subsequently, so will society. Our lineage will evolve into something we cannot entirely foresee and so will the society they create. Humanity is not in a static state. Humanity is fluid and ever evolving, much like all other living creatures are. Thus, the future may behold a society of humanity that has evolved to be more tolerant to drugs through personal liberty and education. How we get there? Who knows. It could be through violence. It could be through natural disaster where millions die and the succeeding society upholds new values. It could be democratically.
At the time, in the 17th and 18th century there was the age of enlightenment. Do you think that age was predicted in the 16th century? Most likely, it was not. We may not live to see the day when change comes, but the succeeding generations will and it will be marvelous no matter what way we go. We will keep going and changing and evolving until we are not recognizable to our old selves.
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The real problem has always been the sheeple and that they cant get the info that is avalible online about the goverments and corruption, the bankingsystem/slaverysystem..
1. We now got bitcoin that can be used for anonymous donations.
2. We now got silkroad and other websites that makes it possible to recieve the donations and anonymously send the infrmation to all the sheeples homeadresses.
3. We will never use BTc or SR for creating peace, it will just be a tool to avoid detection in the war on drugs.
Who cares about the weedprices and that they would drop to a dollar per kilo if the drugslaws did not push the prices up.. not the vendors I guess.
Lets continue struggeling folks, dont even think about using SR and Btc for sharing info on a massive scale, we are just not so into change and peace in theese last days. =(
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great thread, agree with most of the OP and DPR's follow-up, but while the democrats have their own severe fuckedupness,
its not because there is some huge, powerful sociology and social work lobby pulling the strings :P
its just the same BS reasons as the republicans : supporting the *war on some drugs* is good politics, makes you look 'tough on crime' and most of the same corporate influence
as any other politician.
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The war on drugs will end when the US dollar collapses and the country breaks apart. Until that happens, the police state and prohibition will continue. That's the bad news. The good news is that you don't have to wait much longer for this to happen. 10 years. Tops.
This.
Far less than 10 years though.
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According to a ten year study the war on drugs is failing. Apparently the price of the main three Cocaine, Cannabis ,Heroin is declining whilst the purity is rising. Can only mean good news for us. Maybe not for many vendors
Global war on heroin, cocaine and cannabis failing as prices fall and purity rises
Researchers analysed data from seven government-funded programmes
Programmes tracked the illegal drug market over more than a decade
In 18 European countries, street price of cocaine and heroin fell 74 percent
One reason for prices falling could be due to increase of legal high use
By JILL REILLY
PUBLISHED: 11:09, 1 October 2013 | UPDATED: 11:44, 1 October 2013
The global war on heroin, cocaine and cannabis is failing to stem supply, as prices of these drugs have tumbled while seizures of them have risen, according to a study published this week.
Researchers analysed data from seven government-funded programmes that tracked the illegal drug market over more than a decade.
Three of the programmes monitored international drugs trafficking; three focused on the United States; and one tracked the drugs business in Australia.
PRICES TAKING A TUMBLE WORLDWIDE
United States: The prices of heroin, cocaine and cannabis tumbled by 81 percent, 80 percent and 86 percent respectively between 1990 and 2007 in the United States when adjusted for inflation, the researchers found.
Over the same period, the average purity of these drugs rose by 60 percent, 11 percent and 161 percent respectively.
Europe: In 18 European countries, the street price of cocaine and heroin fell by 51 and 74 percent between 2000 and 2009.
Neither the purity of drugs seized in Europe nor the price of cannabis on the continent was given in the study.
Australia: The inflation-adjusted price of cocaine fell by 14 percent between 2000 and 2010, and that of heroin and cannabis by 49 percent.
The prices of heroin, cocaine and cannabis tumbled by 81 percent, 80 percent and 86 percent respectively between 1990 and 2007 in the United States when adjusted for inflation, the researchers found.
In 18 European countries, the street price of cocaine and heroin fell by 51 and 74 percent between 2000 and 2009.
Neither the purity of drugs seized in Europe nor the price of cannabis on the continent was given in the study.
In Australia, meanwhile, the inflation-adjusted price of cocaine fell by 14 percent between 2000 and 2010, and that of heroin and cannabis by 49 percent.
'During this time, seizures of these drugs in major domestic markets generally increased,' said the study's authors, led by Evan Wood of the Urban Health Research Initiative in Vancouver, Canada.
'With few exceptions... illegal drug prices have generally decreased while drug purity has generally increased since 1990,' they added.
The global supply of illicit drugs had likely not been reduced in the last two decades, the study said, and the availability of cannabis and opiates like heroin may even have increased.
Part of the reason for the decrease could be because many users have turned to legal highs after being priced out the drug market during periods of increased cost.
'These findings suggest that expanding efforts at controlling the global illegal drug market though law enforcement are failing,' said the paper published in the open-access journal BMJ Open.
The findings coincide with debate in several countries about whether to loosen laws on certain drugs.
Uruguay in August took a step towards becoming the world's first nation to produce and distribute marijuana after its lower house of parliament approved a bill putting control of the drug in government hands.
In a 2011 report, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) estimated the global illegal drug trade to be worth at least $350 billion (259 billion euros) annually.
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61 % rise in purity of Heroin, Christ. 161% rise in cannabis, must be to do with the advanced cultivation techniques. Shame the Coke has only risen by a measly 11%..
The future looks bright 8)