Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: MacMan on April 20, 2012, 12:56 am

Title: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: MacMan on April 20, 2012, 12:56 am
God forbid this ever happen. But i was thinking if LE were/is to take action on anyone in our community we should all have each others back! Whether it be someone needs lawyer help or just moral support we should be there to help. I feel this is a wonderful community that we have here a utopia if you will:]  After seeing the story about that Farmers Market place i started thinking about this.
What do you guys n gals think?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: divinechemicals on April 20, 2012, 01:01 am
Part of me that feels that there should be a pool set up to help a respected vendor or buyer that got caught. The easiest way would perhaps be for DPR to bring his commission down from 10%to 9.5% or something like that, so the remaining percentage would automatically be put into this pool that could be used should there be any legal trouble at all. This is the best community I've ever had the pleasure to be a part of, and it really does suck that the awesome people in it are all able to go to jail for life for their so-called "crimes." Like you said, I believe that we should protect our fellow Roadies for the good of the community.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Rocker on April 20, 2012, 01:06 am
That's a really thoughtful and charming idea. I don't know if that could be established in reality though.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: weinberg rosenkrantz on April 20, 2012, 01:08 am
That's a really thoughtful and charming idea. I don't know if that could be established in reality though.

LOL

Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: MagicMan on April 20, 2012, 01:33 am
That's a really thoughtful and charming idea. I don't know if that could be established in reality though.

Yeah, logistically it would be very difficult to organize though if anyone figures out a way to set this thing up I would be more than happy to donate  few BTC to the cause
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Rocker on April 20, 2012, 01:38 am
That's a really thoughtful and charming idea. I don't know if that could be established in reality though.

Yeah, logistically it would be very difficult to organize though if anyone figures out a way to set this thing up I would be more than happy to donate  few BTC to the cause

Well, it's not the organizing a fund part that's difficult in my opinion.

The problem is the nature of the court. Trust gets evaporated instantly when charges are pending. People become secretive and cunning and it's impossible to work out all the angles while it's going on. And most people snitch.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: mdmamail on April 20, 2012, 01:55 am
Maybe a bitcoin ->> prison commissary fund.
Tip all the imprisoned hackers, vendors and activists so they can at least get a chocolate bar or something while doing 10yrs.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: ThePotDoctor on April 20, 2012, 02:02 am
Maybe a bitcoin ->> prison commissary fund.
Tip all the imprisoned hackers, vendors and activists so they can at least get a chocolate bar or something while doing 10yrs.

That made me smile.

I've already accepted the fact, that if I get caught, I will just have to accept whatever punishment I am given and live through it. If that is the price I must pay for giving others access to high quality products in a timely and secure manner then so be it. But I am not a criminal by any means.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: wretched on April 20, 2012, 02:06 am
Maybe a bitcoin ->> prison commissary fund.
Tip all the imprisoned hackers, vendors and activists so they can at least get a chocolate bar or something while doing 10yrs.

if your exchanger will send postal money orders, it could be done.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: divinechemicals on April 20, 2012, 02:08 am
But I am not a criminal by any means.

This is why I think a fund should definitely be set up. Seriously, just a 0.5% out of every purchase would be enough to ensure a pretty good fund that we could use to help our fellow community members. We all know that the people on this site aren't criminals, and the fact that we're classified as such is bullshit. This might be a way to show LE that we won't just stand back and watch them walk over our fellow members.

Honestly the hardest part would be getting the money to them without also revealing their identity as a Silk Road member. But if there's a way, let's find it and end all the bullshit. Day after day I feel like maybe if the world governments want to fight a drug war, it's time to actually fight back.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: wretched on April 20, 2012, 02:16 am
But, whats to stop a seller from going rogue and claiming a bust with any random newspaper drug bust as their proof, collecting a huge bounty (for their lawyer of course) and just hitting the bricks. Now if that fund were used as a retainer for an attorney chosen by DPR, then I guess it would be better, but again, who is would end up bullshitting a bust to get away with a big scam, while some random drug peddler on the street gets the attorney that SR has paid for, with all the bells and whistles.

better Idea, if you sell drugs, put money aside for your defense/retirement fund
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Spedly on April 20, 2012, 02:29 am
Some of you guys are just too damn nice. :)


Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: FiveSeven on April 20, 2012, 02:44 am
Yeah this idea was doomed from the start, we didn't even make it to second page.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: mdmamail on April 20, 2012, 02:46 am
Unfortunately in drug cases 99.9% of the time there is no bail, so not like the vendor could come back on here and plead for money. Would be a huge mistake to do that before trial anyways, guaranteeing your guilt posting "Hey I'm this vendor and was busted". If there was bail you would obviously go dig up your fake passport, IDs and cash and skip the country before trial, avoiding decades in jail for petty dealing
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: novocaine on April 20, 2012, 02:46 am
A fund sounds like an excellent idea(I have thought about it myself)... but in reality, why should someone getting busted fall on DPR or the community to fix?

Someone once told me that there is not a person in the world that would not dog(SQUeeeeel)on their fellow man to police in the name of self preservation if one was to be caught out.
Im like "Bullshit...some of us have a code".. but as much as I would hate to admit it, there would be a limit on how much persecution myself or anyone is willing to bear.
That is why I will never order or sell more than I want to because it will be easy for me to tell the police to go fuck themselves.

The trick is dont bite off more than you can chew. If you cant do the time dont do the crime..blah blah.

So if you cant afford a good lawyer, fines, prison time, community service or your girlfriend dumping your ass.... dont use SR or limit what you do.

Personally I like the idea/L but it all starts with being smart and setting your limits. Why should a community try and save some drug fiend that cant control themselves or a reckless/unlucky vendor?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Rocker on April 20, 2012, 03:13 am
But, whats to stop a seller from going rogue and claiming a bust with any random newspaper drug bust as their proof, collecting a huge bounty (for their lawyer of course) and just hitting the bricks. Now if that fund were used as a retainer for an attorney chosen by DPR, then I guess it would be better, but again, who is would end up bullshitting a bust to get away with a big scam, while some random drug peddler on the street gets the attorney that SR has paid for, with all the bells and whistles.

better Idea, if you sell drugs, put money aside for your defense/retirement fund

Yeah this is kinda what I was thinking.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: wretched on April 20, 2012, 03:19 am
now I DO see a benefit for having donation funds for the commissary accounts for those we've lost. I try to make a habit of sending money to Ene, and Jootgatter is going to eat a few meals on wretched for sure. and If a bitcoin exchanger would send a postal money order to the inmate account for you, it would be pretty anonymous. But honestly, there is NOTHING illegal about sending money to the incarcerated (although, the info should be kept to those who won't try stupid shit like shipping acid in with a letter). If trusted members were to set up Bitcoin funds for that, I would donate quite regularly, and I think we all should (I mean they sacrificed their freedom so we could get high, I can sacrifice a pack or two of smokes every few weeks for them)
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: lilith2u on April 20, 2012, 04:23 am
Maybe a bitcoin ->> prison commissary fund.
Tip all the imprisoned hackers, vendors and activists so they can at least get a chocolate bar or something while doing 10yrs.

That made me smile.

I've already accepted the fact, that if I get caught, I will just have to accept whatever punishment I am given and live through it. If that is the price I must pay for giving others access to high quality products in a timely and secure manner then so be it. But I am not a criminal by any means.
  i thought the first was depressing but yours is sad. Your not a criminal neither am I. That sucks. All the corruption in government and police and banks and wars.....no were not the criminals. We shouldnt have to worry about ruining our lives just because what we want to ingest
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: philter3 on April 20, 2012, 04:28 am
You know what might be feasible.. is have a donation fund, totally voluntary, whoever wants to chip in, with DPR or site support as the bag-holder. The purpose of the donation fund (after one full year of growing) would be to retain a lawyer (and I mean a good  one.. one who specializes in criminal drug cases, racketeering, money-laundering etc. and has experience before the Federal Bench) not to represent anyone.. but to give a considered legal opinion about the site. Sort of a "amicus brief" without the impending court date. Such an opinion could give the legal grounds for charges, stipulate in clear and authoritative terms the "chain of custody" issues everyone yaks about all the time, and provide a starting point for vendors to hand to THEIR lawyer... who is very likely not up to speed on such matters.
  It is my understanding (and this would have to be clarified) that an attorney cannot represent you as "innocent" if you have admitted your guilt to him. At the same time.. explaining the ins and outs of a site such as this might very well require you to say things to your counsel that really get close to admitting guilt. And the sucky thing is.. we'd never know.. so do we tell the lawyer everything or give them partial information? In a federal drug case?
  But a consulting/amicus type brief, paid for by donation, would not suffer from needing to maintain innocence.. he's not anyone's lawyer.. he's just a guy hired to critique and give a solid legal opinion.
  He might also (and I don't know if this is feasible or compatible with the ethics of the bar.. have to ask a jurist I guess) be able to refer individuals charged to suitable counsel applicable to their own troubles.
  This way nobody's counsel (who obviously has to know who you are right?) would be involved ... and since the consultant doesn't know who anyone actually is.. he's not lawyer to anyone.. just a legal consultant.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Rocker on April 20, 2012, 05:37 am
You know what might be feasible.. is have a donation fund, totally voluntary, whoever wants to chip in, with DPR or site support as the bag-holder. The purpose of the donation fund (after one full year of growing) would be to retain a lawyer (and I mean a good  one.. one who specializes in criminal drug cases, racketeering, money-laundering etc. and has experience before the Federal Bench) not to represent anyone.. but to give a considered legal opinion about the site. Sort of a "amicus brief" without the impending court date. Such an opinion could give the legal grounds for charges, stipulate in clear and authoritative terms the "chain of custody" issues everyone yaks about all the time, and provide a starting point for vendors to hand to THEIR lawyer... who is very likely not up to speed on such matters.
  It is my understanding (and this would have to be clarified) that an attorney cannot represent you as "innocent" if you have admitted your guilt to him. At the same time.. explaining the ins and outs of a site such as this might very well require you to say things to your counsel that really get close to admitting guilt. And the sucky thing is.. we'd never know.. so do we tell the lawyer everything or give them partial information? In a federal drug case?
  But a consulting/amicus type brief, paid for by donation, would not suffer from needing to maintain innocence.. he's not anyone's lawyer.. he's just a guy hired to critique and give a solid legal opinion.
  He might also (and I don't know if this is feasible or compatible with the ethics of the bar.. have to ask a jurist I guess) be able to refer individuals charged to suitable counsel applicable to their own troubles.
  This way nobody's counsel (who obviously has to know who you are right?) would be involved ... and since the consultant doesn't know who anyone actually is.. he's not lawyer to anyone.. just a legal consultant.

That sounds brilliant
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: risky2 on April 20, 2012, 06:15 am
If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...         Better Call Saul !



For all the breaking bad fans out there :D
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on April 20, 2012, 06:22 am
This is an excellent thread.  If we can find a way to share the risk of being prosecuted in an insurance system of some kind, it could really be huge.  The trouble, as mentioned earlier, is protecting against fraud since we are all anonymous.  Philter3's idea about sharing the cost of legal counsel is awesome, and I think the right direction to consider.  Maybe the next step in that direction to think about is who would be our perfect candidate?  If I did hire someone to come on this forum and advise us, who would you want and what kinds of questions would you ask?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Regicide on April 20, 2012, 06:30 am
DPR: A lawyer would be a great start, but perhaps instead of having him/her come on the forums, you create a thread to get questions that should be asked to these lawyers (a few different opinions is always useful  ;) ).

Once we have a short-list of the most relevant questions, you could have them answered by the legal professionals, and post the results.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: greatgreatgrandpa on April 20, 2012, 06:31 am
This is an excellent thread.  If we can find a way to share the risk of being prosecuted in an insurance system of some kind, it could really be huge.  The trouble, as mentioned earlier, is protecting against fraud since we are all anonymous.  Philter3's idea about sharing the cost of legal counsel is awesome, and I think the right direction to consider.  Maybe the next step in that direction to think about is who would be our perfect candidate?  If I did hire someone to come on this forum and advise us, who would you want and what kinds of questions would you ask?

As was stated before, someone with access to Forensic Computing Experts, Federal bench experience, and a legitimate team of forensic accountants/mathematicians.

I for one have 2 coins for this, DPR, maybe you would make a listing, or just pick a wallet, and I'll start this pot.

Again, despite the libertarian ideals espoused and championed by the very existence of this site,  the sum of human culture is the product of cooperation.
In that spirit, let the antes begin

and thanks DPR.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: dman420 on April 20, 2012, 06:42 am
very interesting thread. its always good to be proactive and be one step ahead and think out all possible scenarios and outcomes to  any possible situation.                                                                      if anyone were to get in trouble for anything whether it be jaywalking, murder, buying/selling drugs on the internet never talk to the LE with out an attorney presant or at the least your shitty public defender which is a right of yours if your broke. the LE will lie and try to coerce you to fuck up. theyll have no prob. telling you theyll take your kids or ass fuck your mom what ever the situation to get the information they seek.....ask for a lawyer and dont cut deals to save your ass because more than likely your "deal" still involves going to jail. the less you say the more a good attorney has to work with. also if i were a vendor i would definately have a just in case fund set aside with a trusted friend or relative who would be reachable should that day ever come. you can even prepay lawyers ( theres a word for it i cant think of now) and call them when SHTF and theyll come bail you out.
`
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: novocaine on April 20, 2012, 06:50 am
The first problem I see is this is an international site.
Maybe I am not thinking outside the square but how is representation in say the US, going to help some bloke in New Zealand?

Thats a whole lot of countries one would have to find representation for. Doable I suppose..

And if there is hedged representation... I will be ordering keys of coke instead of grams. Because I can.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: philter3 on April 20, 2012, 08:12 am
  If I did hire someone to come on this forum and advise us, who would you want and what kinds of questions would you ask?

 Captain,
     We need someone who is way too good to answer questions from the floor. We need someone who is going to be ASKING questions so he can be called on to advise a  local counsel (who may know local law but is WAY out of depth dealing with this wonderful crazy futuristic drug emporium).  Basically what we need is someone who can be prepared via a brief/information packet we all keep handy and possibly in person (if suitably compensated) to be the "Silk Road" expert to our own counsel.
    No lie.. it's going to be pricey. I would have tried to acquire this resourcce myself if my vending takes off.. but it will be a bear in terms of cost to get a top legal suit born to lies and elocution.
   If you go get us someone who will write a paper we can hand to our counsel (if heaven forbid one of us gets popped) and who is available to be called on (suitably compensated at typical professional rates) by our local counsel...
  I will put 0.5% (half of one percent) of my BTC inflow from vending in the hat. 

 A brief, and an expert witness/advisor to counsel with impeccable credentials. For that.. I will pay. I bet others will also.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: MagicMan on April 20, 2012, 02:52 pm
I'm liking this idea even more than the last one and would definitely throw some BTC in the pot every now and then, as my mantra says: "Strength through unity"
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: SarahWalker on April 20, 2012, 03:30 pm
Part of me that feels that there should be a pool set up to help a respected vendor or buyer that got caught. The easiest way would perhaps be for DPR to bring his commission down from 10%to 9.5% or something like that, so the remaining percentage would automatically be put into this pool that could be used should there be any legal trouble at all.

If this were to happen, I'd like to see a set of digital security guidelines for buyers and vendors to follow. Having to take money out of this pool to help someone who used Tor wrong, for example, would suck. Not to mention buyers and vendors who get charged with something else and LE just happen to dig up their SR activities during the investigation.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Maribo on April 20, 2012, 10:40 pm
The problem is; because of the anonymity factor, no-one would know who's been busted! ???
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: philter3 on April 21, 2012, 06:16 am
The problem is; because of the anonymity factor, no-one would know who's been busted! ???

If I may... this is why .. hmm let's call it "SR Legal Aid" for lack of a better term.. is very tricky IF it is structured to reimburse people for their own legal fees. To get a "pay out" from the "insurance" you'd have to admit you were on the road.
 TOR and Bitcoins rest on this concept of "plausible deniability", as does the mail deliveries.

 What we need is the best (most efficient) way of aiding people's legal outcomes by voluntary donation, and without compromising anyone's anonymity.

Ideally any help that is given should be broad, general, and help everyone. The more this is true.. the more people will feel it is their self-interest to chip in.

Being able to have some sort of referral network or something for narcotics defense attorneys (to get a good legal weasel on retainer) or a "typical legal questions a SRer may have" FAQ would be a good start.

Having an "amicus" brief to aid local counsel and inform them of what's up without admitting shit.... that would be a real weight off my mind fer sure.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: dkmonk on April 21, 2012, 10:01 am
It would be nice to know a little bit more information about your bust like the quantity and origin of the package, and any ideas why they checked yours specifically.

Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: divinechemicals on April 21, 2012, 10:09 am
Xe, information please. We all take news like that pretty seriously around here. May I ask, how are you accessing the site at all if your PC has been taken and you're presumably being held somewhere?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: dkmonk on April 21, 2012, 12:05 pm
That is astonishing that they would waste there time for a recently banned research chemical especially when it is such a small order. It goes to show you they will do whatever they feel like and there is no consistency to what order is small enough to just be confiscated and what order they will arrest you for.

What schedule are banned RC's anyway?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: dkmonk on April 21, 2012, 12:43 pm
Well, if you kept quite and maintained composure you should have a chance of beating it by saying that you didn't know what it was and just went to the post to collect mail, because they called and requested you to. Get a decent lawyer and take it to trial. This will draw it out, so you can be a little less stressed knowing that you have time to come up with a strategy with your lawyer and gives them time to lose paper work and samples as well as forget things.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Regicide on April 21, 2012, 07:21 pm
Xe: without knowing what country you are from, there will be no way to get any answers about what LE can and cannot do. It's up to you to share that information, but you will not get much valid help here without your location.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: philter3 on April 22, 2012, 03:03 am
Xe,
  Have you retained counsel? 
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: j0blo on April 22, 2012, 10:08 am
Get a new lawyer - someone more interested in you winning than making premature excuses.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: mantaray on April 23, 2012, 10:04 am
The easiest way would perhaps be for DPR to bring his commission down from 10%to 9.5%
Is that rly that high? I know running the site costs a lot but that lot? I doubt, now I know why so generous once a year..
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: rockyboy on April 23, 2012, 01:46 pm
Prisoner's Dilemma : Why two individuals might not cooperate, even if it appears that it is in their best interest to do so.

Wouldn't work, when your in that chair and screaming for a lawyer, anything could come out of your mouth to get out of the situation. but i could also be wrong. Any ideas???
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: philter3 on April 23, 2012, 10:22 pm
The easiest way would perhaps be for DPR to bring his commission down from 10%to 9.5%
Is that rly that high? I know running the site costs a lot but that lot? I doubt, now I know why so generous once a year..

It's not about cost of overhead.. that's minimal. It's about reward for risk. It's about him dying in supermax if they catch him. Be reasonable. He's the principal target and the one with the most to lose.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: k5053 on April 24, 2012, 08:46 pm
Quote
In death, a member of project mayhem has a name, his name is robert paulsen.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: The Reverand on April 25, 2012, 12:27 am
I really wish this was possible.  People going to jail just for selling things like this to other people is just fucking wrong.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: minorthreat71 on April 29, 2012, 12:22 pm
One, of many, problems is jurisdiction and, well, being disbarred (the guy that mentioned international law).  Once the administration cleans house, may be some real lawyers will help for free...  there are many more lawyers here than I have fingers.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: hamlet on April 29, 2012, 01:33 pm
Well its a nice idea from a good place. IMO who thinks that a fund to pay legal fees would offer protection to the community misunderstands many things

People and lawyers for a start. Everyone has an annoying habit of acting rationally in their own interests.

The difference between professional criminals part of a larger enterprise and some hippie selling weed his mum grows is a large one. Thinking that we are not already buying from people with direct links to "real" criminals is naive, as is thinking that the fund would be worth more than the trouble it would cause.

The community and SR itself offer the greatest degree of protection simply by providing an arena where hardworking professionals can purchase recreational substances with the best risk:reward ratio. When danger threatens, a quick note on the front page of SR would find an influx of people with qualified and experienced advice.

Increasing protection is more a function of making it harder to scam people by improving the ratings system to further increase the reliability of SR rather than saving money to pay Saul.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: freedomisknowlage on May 02, 2012, 10:42 pm
There will always be a market. If there's a demand, there's a supply.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Ordos on May 09, 2012, 12:53 am
If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...         Better Call Saul !

For all the breaking bad fans out there :D

I love the idea of having an SR lawyer but it seems like organizing this in an open forum then having someone approach a lawyer would simply reveal yet another SR user.  Resulting in what would most likely be another arrest.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: bp on May 10, 2012, 01:55 am
The Anonymous Insurance Company's time is due.

Providing services like : bonds, performance and bail; lawyer access; identity protection; PI and cyber PI work; collections/missing or stolen propery recovery/reimbursement.....and more.
Both preventative and post trouble types of services. Cheaper to prevent than to pay off of course.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: bp on May 10, 2012, 01:57 am
The Anonymous Tribunal......the first anonymous, private, competitive (go ahead, start a Court/mediation/Jury company and compete) court system.

For legal action WITHIN the SR community.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: axisofinfinity on May 11, 2012, 06:55 am
If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...         Better Call Saul !

For all the breaking bad fans out there :D

I love the idea of having an SR lawyer but it seems like organizing this in an open forum then having someone approach a lawyer would simply reveal yet another SR user.  Resulting in what would most likely be another arrest.
Anybody on SR have any lawyer friends that are against prohibition and trustworthy? Or maybe is anybody in school to become a lawyer?
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: raveryote on May 11, 2012, 11:13 am
That's a really thoughtful and charming idea. I don't know if that could be established in reality though.

Yeah, logistically it would be very difficult to organize though if anyone figures out a way to set this thing up I would be more than happy to donate  few BTC to the cause

Well, it's not the organizing a fund part that's difficult in my opinion.

The problem is the nature of the court. Trust gets evaporated instantly when charges are pending. People become secretive and cunning and it's impossible to work out all the angles while it's going on. And most people snitch.

The problem is: people snitch to get off. it's reality.

It would be really nice if we had a really solid community, and we all stuck up for each other, but unfortunately, we're not big enough to fight every world government with our computers.

It just aint happening.

now, if we could afford to rent a botnet, and attack certain server clusters, we could cause enough of a ruckus that people will at least consider talking to their representatives about any court case involving sr vendors..

but there's really only so much we can do to cure a situation.

prevention is key.

dont. get. caught.

dont let those bastards pin you down in the first place.

take every precaution.

yall are my heroes.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: SierraRS on May 22, 2012, 02:53 pm
I have read the thread and similar ones, and seems that most people are specific to one country or legal system. Much sales are going on Europe. In fact if you are caught, you are screwed and legal help will do close to nothing.

I suggest creating pool of donation for a hitman. If someone high ranking here (like owner, moderator or seller) is getting in trouble, kill the damn cop who is leading the particular case! The fear of certain death of loved ones by drive-by or RPG grenade most likely will make the cop hide the clues and wash the suspect clean of all charges. There are hitmans that can kill targets almost anywhere. This is war, they are not hesitating to use guns and violence against people who are involved in drugs, we should not think twice to do the same to them!
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: UKMJ on May 22, 2012, 03:31 pm
I think if you got into the killing cops stage the what difference woukd there be between SR and Mexican cartels. All it would succeed in doing is bringing more heat to SR.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: SierraRS on May 22, 2012, 04:21 pm
In my opinion goals are more important than means used to reach them. The goal is to keep people free from aggression of government. The government first draw their guns, it's time to fight back if anyone from community is threatened. We are quite anonymous and decentralized, we might be more resistant target than any oldschool drug cartel. I think LEA already is raining maximum heat on SR, it does not matter how or if we retaliate in cases of emergency. We all are criminals, drug dealers and terrorists in eyes of general population.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: UKMJ on May 22, 2012, 05:33 pm
I dont think general population gives too much of a shit. The media does and so do LE but most of joe public don't care and as long as they don't see it happening it is not a problem for them. They are more concerned about the junkie in the street who wants to rob them than a drug user behind a keyboard.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: wasta on May 22, 2012, 08:41 pm
Before you know it you all will be in a criminal organization if you start to make a pack like this.
 Not the club I want to join.
If things start to get ugly and violence comes around the corner, by then it will be too late to leave the sinking ship.
 If you take safety measurements you are fine.
 Those from the farmer market were not carefully enough.
Just hushmail and no encryption.
 If the police can catch you, they will!
 Just make sure that they can not.
 If you do it is only you who will be to blame.
 But the gpg way on SR is full proof, I am sure.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: n0n00dz4u on May 22, 2012, 08:51 pm
Tor based communications are pretty safe from the prying eyes of law enforcement.

That coupled with gpg and the power of the bitcoin and your online communications should be all but fool proof.

The most common issue is watching who you deal with irl and making sure that you keep all friends and associates clean.

If a undercover (speaking from a US perspective) infiltrates your organization then its best to handle it quickly and discreetly. Personally if I had any doubts as to the integrity of a buyer I would immediately cancel all orders and cease communications with that person.

All and all I believe the SR community is a very safe place indeed :)
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: SierraRS on May 22, 2012, 11:05 pm
Silk Road is very safe if everything is done properly.

The problem might be if SR server or personal operating it is compromised in some other way. Even if 95% of buyers and sellers remain anonymous, I think we should have a plan in a case SR owners get busted. The publicly visible pool of tens of thousands of bitcoins as a bounty for a hitman will serve the same deterrent purpose as nuclear arsenal of superpower.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Gupta on May 23, 2012, 11:24 pm
As soon as you become complacent you invite trouble. NO, you are not safe. Ever. No matter what you do. You can lessen your chances of unfortunate things happening to you but ultimately you are not safe. There are NO trusted vendors. Any of them. I have my favorites to. I don't trust them. I do not trust you either. I do not trust my "irl dealer/friend/whatever."  I find it odd that trust can be gained on a website.

Escrow protects us all. It's not perfect and your stats will be horrible messed up. But I'd rather get my btc back and purchase again elsewhere than lose everything in a scam.
 If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community... Do not admit to anything. ONLY speak with an attorney. Take your lump and shut up.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: phubaiblues on May 24, 2012, 12:20 am
This site, and it's creators, have done everything they could to protect us from each other.  Along with community and solidarity and working friendships, that would naturally come along with these transactions in RL, also comes the ability to fuck each other over.  Here we can't really do that, except in one small way: vendors could fuck over individual buyers by giving their address to LE.  But still, here we're about as protected as you can be.

So no, we can't have a pool, or anything else that would link us to each other...the logistics alone would be a way to hang somebody.  I feel responsible, and if I got cracked in some way related to here, I'd call somebody or another that I trust and would have them attempt to log on and tell people that they busted me...but most people probably wouldn't believe this anyway. 

No, here we're on our own, we're not really all that 'tight' of a group at all.  Sometimes it feels that way, but I know it's an illusion.  You take off for a few weeks and people move on, forget you existed.  It's called a 'community' but that's just for lack of a better word.  Really, it's not.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: acidrock on May 24, 2012, 02:32 am
Before you know it you all will be in a criminal organization if you start to make a pack like this.

Pooling money and helping each other out does put you in a criminal organization. Anyone associated would be a ripe target for RICO charges, and that's 20 years alone. And if you're not a US citizen, don't think the US government won't extradite you. If you sell to a US citizen, buy from a US citizen, or anything you do touches US property, they can petition your government for extradition. There are similar laws in other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO_Act#International_equivalents_to_RICO

"Without other nations enforcing similar legislation to RICO many cross border RICO cases would not be possible. In the overall body of RICO cases that went to trial, at least 50% have had some non-US enforcement component to them."
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: phubaiblues on May 25, 2012, 11:37 pm
Before you know it you all will be in a criminal organization if you start to make a pack like this.

Pooling money and helping each other out does put you in a criminal organization. Anyone associated would be a ripe target for RICO charges, and that's 20 years alone. And if you're not a US citizen, don't think the US government won't extradite you. If you sell to a US citizen, buy from a US citizen, or anything you do touches US property, they can petition your government for extradition. There are similar laws in other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO_Act#International_equivalents_to_RICO

"Without other nations enforcing similar legislation to RICO many cross border RICO cases would not be possible. In the overall body of RICO cases that went to trial, at least 50% have had some non-US enforcement component to them."

Well said, my friend, even thru u a little karma to get you rolling in that area, as this is important info: I remember when they started busting the outlaw motorcycle clubs in the USA...and rico was just starting to be used, and the one thing the clubs did, which I thought was cool as shit, was take a small donation from their members, so they could have a *bondsman* ready at all times...as anybody who's been around the block, knows your bondsman is more important than your lawyer in the beginning...or it damn sure feels like that anyway....

But low and behold, that little 'chipping in money for a bondsman' was used as part of the RICO predicate, or whatever they called it....sure seemed like a cool idea, but I know that Tampa FL outlaw prez spent something like the next 20 or so years in prison under that RICO act, so good that you brought this up....rico is fun to talk about, *terrible* to be sentenced under!  I don't want *nothing* to do with you guys!!! LOL ;)
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: dopeyopy on May 29, 2012, 12:42 pm
The smartest thing for vendors to do is to have some hidden back up cash. When i was younger and growing dope i always had a legal fund.  Once i had paid for the initial set up costs my next couple of crops (approx $10k) went into a box buried in the ground, hidden at grandma's, wherever your secret spot is (away from the rest of your gear/cash obviously).

If you were unlucky and got busted (i got busted) then you would be able to have some cash for a solicitor.  It's all about hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: DrWhite on June 01, 2012, 10:23 pm
I too think this is an excellent community of professional and decent people. I would hate for anything to happen but I think we all understand the risks. All we can do is be careful and treat others on the site like we would want to be treated and hunt down scammers and report them to SR management.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: klaw239 on June 04, 2012, 05:25 pm
I too am all for  making a donation to such a cause. perhaps make it an option at every every purchase asking if you wish to donate to the SR lets call it "resources if needed"  fund. Maybe like 1/4 a coin each buy or something. Of course all up to the individual though .

I also think that should anything ever happen to any of us here that such a fund should only be used   one customers/venders of solid reputations and no tarnishes and undeniable proof  that either has at any time been dishonest is misleading about their warez or  the delivery of ant item.

The only draw back to me is how do we actually know any such person if and when  they are ever in legal trouble truly is who he/she says and is a member of our community? This deserves some thought--
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: LightWorkersRUs on June 04, 2012, 05:47 pm
It sounds like a good idea but as a former poster said when a charge is caught and the pressure is put to some people they will turn over and this could lead to the downfall of the community so its a good idea but ALOT of thought would have to go into it to protect this wonderful community.  8)
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: klaw239 on June 04, 2012, 06:11 pm
If anyone here has the resources and an intelligent enough attorney I would suggest setting up a dummy corporation with such a long paper trail  nothing can be traced back. Such a company could have a insurance policy in place or even  check into the laws of having a fund of their own making that donates to those convicted by the law of nonviolent drug offense's.

Perhaps some one here has a connection George Soros or some other powerful  individual who supports the free will of drug use. He such  a man or woman would have the needed resources to  put such a thing in place.

These are just ideas off the top off my head and not thought out properly but all ideas start off the top of someones head.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: klaw239 on June 04, 2012, 08:15 pm
If I were going to use someone to do a job for me that might cause me or an innocent person or persons harm if the person was forced or other wise leaked the information and what he was/is doing then I would not let that individual know what he or she was doing it. It is not a lie if you truly think it is the truth. 

That is why corrupt officials and those with power are so dangerous if they are immoral and motivated by  things of self gratitude or things that are self serving. When it comes to Gov  nothing will ever be good for ALL people there will always be a law in place that  annoys someone. The only law that was once in place that helped EVERYONE and PROTECTED every was FREEDOM to do as one wished his his or her self and property.

As you already know people no longer have this freedom. We are held in chains.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: klaw239 on June 04, 2012, 09:09 pm
"It is not a lie if you truly think it is the truth. " Keep believing that , see what happens .

Freedom was and still is nothing but an illusion for the most part."

 In response to those. A DEA agent for example there is one I am sure that truly believes  he is defending the truth  when he is told the war on drugs is noble and helpful. He is taught this and programed this so he believes this to be the truth. A persons truths are dictated by his beliefs which in turn are dictated by what he has been programed/taught to believe such birth. The truth to me is that the moon is round. If I had been taught to believe it square and  know it as a square since birth I would argue up and don till death it is a square as I have no choice.

The difference between the example I made of the moon and of what a LEO does defending these corrupt laws is that by me thinking the moon and knowing the moon to be square for a FACT cause that is all I have been taught in turn hurts no one. The moon just hangs there. My belief is still my belief   and I may still consider it fact but IT HURTS NO ONE AND IT HARMS NO ONES PROPERTY

While the agent at large if if a sane and stable mind can see the destruction and the harm and pain it brings on others   and innocents especially children. and they continue to uphold and defend it  knowing  that it hurts others.

It is in that act that makes one immoral and wrong and the other just a persons belief
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: klaw239 on June 04, 2012, 11:44 pm
I try and never speak in absolutes Trr as their are always the exceptions and if you read through my post you will seee I always say MOST and not all when It comes to LEO's for while they make think me a criminal and want to hurt me I admire many of them for many are good and noble and defending what this country was founded on.

I so disagree with everyone's cop bashing but It is not my place to dispute someone elses free will cause that free will hurts no  one

People should consider WHY many LEO-s do what they do and not just what they do.

An open mind and at least a piece of a caring  soul is all I ask of any one in power so I can at least HOPE that I am treated fairly. If I am ever in such a spot.

Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: minorthreat71 on June 05, 2012, 03:21 pm
If you sell to a US citizen, buy from a US citizen, or anything you do touches US property, they can petition your government for extradition. There are similar laws in other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO_Act#International_equivalents_to_RICO
First, quoting Wiki is like quoting a douche-bag as a scholar.  Everything is  *possible* but the likelihood of it happening is RARE.  The criminal justice system is based on deterrence.  Meaning, we know and the cops know, convicting everyone is impossible.  Thus, high publicity targets are preferable.  Is the recreational drug user one?

This community is so warped with retarded theories that I'm starting to question my prudence....

LIKE I SAID... many lawyers use this site, and those that chill and put the teenage angst aside, will find all the legal help they need.  Not sure how to say it with saying it...
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: toweljoke on June 07, 2012, 12:25 pm
Just don't be a dick and keep your mouth shut about SR if LE comes for you. Whenever people in rl ask me where I get my stuff from I lie and say it's from some guy I know back in X town. Snitches get stitches. ;)
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: minorthreat71 on June 08, 2012, 12:43 am
Snitches get stitches. ;)
Griffin v. State
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: wasta on June 10, 2012, 05:51 pm
If it was possible to do so, it would have been done by now.

So take it from me, the authority's are in the dark here and do not what to do.

The same goes for hardcandy and that shit.
Nothing that they can do.

SR is safe!
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: longissimus on June 10, 2012, 05:54 pm
True Communism never worked. Never would that. I wish it would though..
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Kappacino on June 10, 2012, 06:20 pm
If it was possible to do so, it would have been done by now.

So take it from me, the authority's are in the dark here and do not what to do.

The same goes for hardcandy and that shit.
Nothing that they can do.

SR is safe!

You might very well be right..

But a healthy level of paranoia is what's going to keep SR alive.

Not saying we need to jump the gun any time anything goes wrong, but there are LE working right this second to bring this place down. Intelligent people, not brutish street cops. So we must remain very careful and not underestimate the people that sincerely want to drag us by force into a dark room and lock us away for ingesting a substance.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: Healthybar on June 10, 2012, 10:34 pm
maybe if a dealer gets caught, we could all work together to make it looks like he was framed...or somehow manipulate the evidence in his/her favor

and same for buyers.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: roguecherokee on June 11, 2012, 04:53 am
I ain't no snitch.
Title: Re: If legal action is ever taken against anyone in OUR community...
Post by: catchmeimpossible on June 12, 2012, 09:12 pm
this is a beautiful thought and its essential for us to survive. its only the means that presents the problem; the legal systems you refer to are dying and will not support our objectives. rather than wasting our time arguing with apes we simply need to help each other, we need not leave anyone behind if we remain committed we all can rely on each other.