Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: uniwiz on March 21, 2012, 02:14 am

Title: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 21, 2012, 02:14 am
Support me in my quest of getting SR to itemize cost at checkout.
Let them do something for us buyers. Even the sellers agree.
Aren't you sick of not knowing where you hard earned money is going?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15964.0

Before you start bashing me, and telling great things about SR.
I understand. Respect me for being honest.
I love SR too, and I have proven it.
Comes a time to speak up.

All I'm asking is to know the facts so I can make informed choices.
If you stop letting the system nickel, and dime you death, you do ok.
Buyers are bitching at vendors cause they don't see the cut taken by SR, and the BTC market.

What's wrong with knowing the facts during checkout?
It's not complicated code to write.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Holly on March 21, 2012, 02:28 am
You're paying for an escrow service?  :-\
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: themessenger2 on March 21, 2012, 02:45 am
I agree. If SR/DPR feel that the fees are fair then they should be easy to see. Yes, they are in the silk road address, but it's x% on a amount and y% on b amount etc. Just make it simple.

Price of item = x
SR fees = y
Total cost = z

Every receipt has the taxes on it, why not here?
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 21, 2012, 03:00 am
You're paying for an escrow service?  :-\
I've been here long enough to know what I pay for.
Now how hard is it to list it out?
The price of an item can vary 10-20% during the day.
Thats the BTC volatility, how do I know that?
Whats wrong with showing me?
Whats wrong with showing me my escrow fees?
I'm paying for them.

It ain't hard to do, considering all the other "features" added.
I'm paying much more, and I want to know how much at checkout.

Simple request? No?
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: mike.murphy on March 21, 2012, 03:22 am
I agree, make it like a real fucking itemized receipt at checkout.  What's so hard about it, we know you're getting filthy rich off us, we don't care. :-X
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: DigitalAlch on March 21, 2012, 06:12 am
Support me in my quest of getting SR to itemize cost at checkout.
Let them do something for us buyers. Even the sellers agree.
Aren't you sick of not knowing where you hard earned money is going?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15964.0

Before you start bashing me, and telling great things about SR.
I understand. Respect me for being honest.
I love SR too, and I have proven it.
Comes a time to speak up.

All I'm asking is to know the facts so I can make informed choices.
If you stop letting the system nickel, and dime you death, you do ok.
Buyers are bitching at vendors cause they don't see the cut taken by SR, and the BTC market.

What's wrong with knowing the facts during checkout?
It's not complicated code to write.

Upgrades, infrastructure, escrow service. You really think DPR would be wise to share every little detail of what is being worked on, of how much each thing cost? Or do you just mean show you how much the item cost and how much the escrow fee is?

~Digi
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 21, 2012, 06:28 am
Support me in my quest of getting SR to itemize cost at checkout.
Let them do something for us buyers. Even the sellers agree.
Aren't you sick of not knowing where you hard earned money is going?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15964.0

Before you start bashing me, and telling great things about SR.
I understand. Respect me for being honest.
I love SR too, and I have proven it.
Comes a time to speak up.

All I'm asking is to know the facts so I can make informed choices.
If you stop letting the system nickel, and dime you death, you do ok.
Buyers are bitching at vendors cause they don't see the cut taken by SR, and the BTC market.

What's wrong with knowing the facts during checkout?
It's not complicated code to write.

Upgrades, infrastructure, escrow service. You really think DPR would be wise to share every little detail of what is being worked on, of how much each thing cost? Or do you just mean show you how much the item cost and how much the escrow fee is?

~Digi
Digi,

It's not complicated, the latter.
I am not attacking the store renter.
I don't care what the guy who rents the store, costs are.
He sets his fees fine.
The SR fee are taxes.
The BTC is just plain ass burn.

I want a decent receipt at check out.
The numbers never add up.
 
BTC goes down the price increased.
BTC goes up the price increased.
At least if I had some numbers in the cart, I could figure out why that is going on.

An itemization of all the fee's, product, shipping, tax.
How you want to spend the tax is your biz, not mine, just give me a GD receipt.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: yellow on March 21, 2012, 08:51 am
I do miss not knowing what the bitcoin exchange rate is, I've been out over $100 on one order and couldn't work out why.

Cost + fees would be fair IMHO.

That said, if it keeps this place going, hide away! 8)
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: cache on March 21, 2012, 09:17 am
+1

It would be nice to have a cost breakdown, sort of like how tax is displayed on a store receipt.
I doubt this is high on the priority list though, security is much more important for everybody on here.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 21, 2012, 09:46 am
I do miss not knowing what the bitcoin exchange rate is, I've been out over $100 on one order and couldn't work out why.


bugger - that's some bad judgement mate :)
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Rocker on March 21, 2012, 10:50 am
+1

I do think this would serve as a useful feature. I think automatically publishing that information in an easy to read format (for all orders) would actually encourage growth of the site.

But

Some people could get upset if it ends up sounding like SR is making a lot of money. I'm sure most everyone here thinks that SR should be rewarded for all it takes to run this place, not to mention many of the new useful feature developments. One aspect to consider could be that SR may not want to make it easier to quantify the amount of money he's making, simply so the figure's not out there to spark outrage among politicians or other's who are haters. He's risking his freedom in a huge way to put this site up and I hope he's making plenty. Either way, he's published his commission percentages.

I've encountered many buyers unfamiliar with the fee rate so towards the bottom I have a breakdown in terms that I find are easy to understand.

Here's the format for the fee structure which some of you may find helpful to demystify the formula as it isn't a flat rate, I realized it is published in a few other places but here goes:

For any item sold SR taxes:

- The first $50 of pre-commission value                 @ 10%
- The next $100 of pre-commission value               @ 8.5%
- The next $150 of pre-commission value               @ 6%
- The next $200 of pre-commission value               @ 3%
- The next $500 of pre-commission value               @ 2%
- Any amount exceeding $1000 of pre-commission value  @ 1.5%

It's based on dollar amount, not BTC be aware.

If the feature someday comes, cool. But until then a little math with help you estimate pretty accurately if it's something you really want to know. I don't think new features can just be pumped out like an assembly line.

Rocker
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: cache on March 21, 2012, 10:59 am
Good point.

Steps have been taken recently to obfuscate the amount that sellers make from here, it would seem counterintuitive for DPR to publish the same data relating to his profits.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Oldtoker on March 21, 2012, 11:08 am
I have to agree.  It would be nice to see a receipt when checking out showing product cost, shipping cost, commission.  And the Bitcoin rate that is currently in use.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: euler2718 on March 21, 2012, 12:51 pm
+1, it doesn't have to say what the fees are for, just that they are fees. Everything should add up. I agree with the OP.
-euler
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: jackstraw on March 21, 2012, 02:20 pm
I agree with Uniwiz...it would be nice to see a breakdown of the transaction fees.  Come on guys its Tax time....I need something to show my accountant. :-)
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Raoul Duke on March 21, 2012, 02:24 pm
Come on guys its Tax time....I need something to show my accountant. :-)

haha - hoping for a rebate?

"yes, last year i got through about 200 grams of cocaine, surely i can get some tax back on that - i have my own business and everything" :D
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Tagore on March 21, 2012, 03:39 pm
Come on guys its Tax time....I need something to show my accountant. :-)

haha - hoping for a rebate?

"yes, last year i got through about 200 grams of cocaine, surely i can get some tax back on that - i have my own business and everything" :D

Sure- "Entertaining clients." Just keep it vague. I've gotten tax back on stranger things.

I would also like to see a breakdown of the fees at checkout- It can be especially frustrating when checking out listed deals only to find the total price in BTC disproportionate to the expected rate after exchange...

Just something like "TOTAL: XX.xx BTC including XX.xx BTC in SR Fees" would be fine.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: grahamgreene on March 22, 2012, 07:42 am
+1 on this, the total of the product and the total fees, and then the total of both together would be very handy to see at checkout.

- grahamgreene
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: raven92 on March 22, 2012, 08:07 am
- The first $50 of pre-commission value                 @ 10%
- The next $100 of pre-commission value               @ 8.5%
- The next $150 of pre-commission value               @ 6%
- The next $200 of pre-commission value               @ 3%
- The next $500 of pre-commission value               @ 2%
- Any amount exceeding $1000 of pre-commission value  @ 1.5%
Rocker

So, broken down IRS style if i'm not mistaken this all translates into

< $50     is (x * 1.10)
< $150   is $5 + ((x-50) * 1.085)
< $300   is $13.5 + ((x-150) * 1.06)
< $500   is $22.5 + ((x-300) * 1.03)
< $1000 is $28.5 + ((x-500) * 1.02)
> $1000 is $38.5 + ((x-1000) * 1.015)

Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Rocker on March 22, 2012, 11:05 am
- The first $50 of pre-commission value                 @ 10%
- The next $100 of pre-commission value               @ 8.5%
- The next $150 of pre-commission value               @ 6%
- The next $200 of pre-commission value               @ 3%
- The next $500 of pre-commission value               @ 2%
- Any amount exceeding $1000 of pre-commission value  @ 1.5%
Rocker

So, broken down IRS style if i'm not mistaken this all translates into

< $50     is (x * 1.10)
< $150   is $5 + ((x-50) * 1.085)
< $300   is $13.5 + ((x-150) * 1.06)
< $500   is $22.5 + ((x-300) * 1.03)
< $1000 is $28.5 + ((x-500) * 1.02)
> $1000 is $38.5 + ((x-1000) * 1.015)

I've actually been trying to put it into an expression for awhile, but I lack the math capabilities. If someone wants to verify if the above works that'd be awesome! I don't have the time at the moment.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: kremlin on March 22, 2012, 01:22 pm
i support this idea.  more transparency is better.  lay all the #'s out please.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: BenJesuit on March 22, 2012, 02:21 pm
It's a good idea. If anything, display this info on the page where you enter your PGP addy and your PIN. And that would be the last you see of it once you hit submit.

Display fees
Display BTC price used
Display price in both BTC and your currency.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: joeskissonu2 on March 22, 2012, 05:05 pm
+1 I like these ideas!
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: tweetbe on March 22, 2012, 07:55 pm
From a vendor's perspective, some more details on orders would be helpful.  Specifically what the btc rate was when the order was calculated.  I stay exposed in escrow so the btc price swings.  I like to keep good books, but without some of the order details it's only a vague calculation.   

-TB
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: gotmilk on March 22, 2012, 09:22 pm
I think it would be awesome if SR applied and got a non-profit 301c(I think its called) and all our purchases could be tax deductible. That would really piss off the Government...
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 23, 2012, 01:45 am
Thanks guys for your support.
I am not knocking the SR Admin, and they shouldn't be afraid to show they make some money.
What I'm stupid, nobody is making any money?
That wasn't my point.
The numbers at times don't add up.
Simple constructive thing, that isn't that hard to code.
Thanks for the math, but I want it at checkout :'(


Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Leech on March 23, 2012, 02:12 am
I noticed SR has a time lapse for prices to be updated to current BTC exchange rate. Might that be the reason why the BTC rate feature is removed? It's to prevent further misunderstanding.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Dirtyduke on March 23, 2012, 04:19 am
I don't need a receipt, but knowing the current value of a BTC on SR would be great.  I hate paying X.XX amount of dollars, only to transfer them here and find out that they are worth less on SR.  I understand hedged escrow everything, but just knowing what a BTC is worth on here would help everyone figure out how much we are are really spending after we pay the fees for USD deposits and then pay for the BTC with that money.

People like me who use bitinstant also have an almost 5% direct deposit fee, so that shit adds up too.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: msween27 on March 23, 2012, 04:26 am
To know the current value of BTC on SR you can keep Exactly 1 BTC in your account and then just change it to "display prices in Dollars" in your settings.  This of course is only convenient if you don't normally keep money on SR
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Mithradates VI on March 23, 2012, 09:02 pm
You can do the math if you dont want to change your balance.  But it is annoying.  I have found myself switching my settings back and forth, back and forth  :P  It would be nice to have BTC, USD/Euro and the ratio between them everywhere a price is listed.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: deletedme on March 23, 2012, 10:27 pm
I think some obfuscation is intentional here.

Specifically, the btc/usd exchange related to hedging.

When you place your order, your BTC get exchanged for USD on a market.
Then when you press "finalize" those USD are exchanged for BTC again, and a released to the vendor.

These exchanges are not done immediately, and not for the whole amount at one time;
this is done to prevent identification of the SR market(s) account(s) based on timing.


I think the hedging-related fee could still be displayed at the end, but I can understand why DPR may want
to keep it obfuscated as it is - to prevent identification of his account(s) based on rates.

 The hedging fee is on the vendor side though, so there's nothing preventing SR to display
the price breakdown to the buyer, as far as I can see.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Oracle of Delphi on March 23, 2012, 11:29 pm
The hedging fee is approximately 4% and that info has not been hidden, as far as I know. Vendors are able to see how much they get from each transaction in USD (or, btc*(SRs BTCUSD ticker)). It may go only slightly above 4% as well as under 4% (it has to do whether the price is on a downslope or going up), I have checked for a good amount of transactions and can confidently say that the hedging mechanism is fair play on SRs part.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 24, 2012, 01:52 pm
The hedging fee is approximately 4% and that info has not been hidden, as far as I know. Vendors are able to see how much they get from each transaction in USD (or, btc*(SRs BTCUSD ticker)). It may go only slightly above 4% as well as under 4% (it has to do whether the price is on a downslope or going up), I have checked for a good amount of transactions and can confidently say that the hedging mechanism is fair play on SRs part.
It's not about vendors, it's about buyers.
We can't see it.
Why can't people understand, I just want a simple itemize cost at checkout.
I think the excuses are not reasonable.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: kidx on March 28, 2012, 11:16 pm
Support me in my quest of getting SR to itemize cost at checkout.
Let them do something for us buyers. Even the sellers agree.
Aren't you sick of not knowing where you hard earned money is going?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15964.0

Before you start bashing me, and telling great things about SR.
I understand. Respect me for being honest.
I love SR too, and I have proven it.
Comes a time to speak up.

All I'm asking is to know the facts so I can make informed choices.
If you stop letting the system nickel, and dime you death, you do ok.
Buyers are bitching at vendors cause they don't see the cut taken by SR, and the BTC market.

What's wrong with knowing the facts during checkout?
It's not complicated code to write.

I don't understand what you're saying. You want to know what SR's "cut" is, meaning what percentage of each sell are they taking? Isn't that defined somewhere in the terms/conditions?

Or are you talking about the fluctuations in the exchange rate causing you to not know exactly how many Bitcoins you can buy when you finally get everything transferred? My advice is to communicate frequently with the seller. If they truly want your business, they will email you back. I bug the SHIT out of my seller, and have since the beginning. I send him at least 3 emails before each order, telling him what I'm planning on purchasing, when I expect the funds to clear, asking what he is charging for what, how much he is sending and when, tracking number, etc.

It should be like that. There shouldn't be some lah dee dah, service where you just casually point and click and buy some heroin or meth, and a package just floats around and you notice it sitting on your front porch.

Once, I asked the seller to simply make a custom post specifically for my order, that way I didn't have to try to figure out the exchange rate, and there wasn't any risk of me accidentally not buying enough Bitcoins for what I wanted to buy. He simply made a checkout with the Bitcoin amount I was going to buy, and I paid through that. He deleted it once I finalized, and everything was hunky dory.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: new987 on March 29, 2012, 08:32 pm
If the fee was displayed in an itemized fashion during checkout it would certainly increase the amount of buyers asking to circumvent the system. Especially those that will be required to finalize early on their order anyway.

Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: rake on March 29, 2012, 09:06 pm
I agree with Uniwiz...it would be nice to see a breakdown of the transaction fees.  Come on guys its Tax time....I need something to show my accountant. :-)

Hmmm if I work on Wall St can I claim cocaine purchases as a business expense??
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on March 29, 2012, 09:34 pm
Support me in my quest of getting SR to itemize cost at checkout.
Let them do something for us buyers. Even the sellers agree.
Aren't you sick of not knowing where you hard earned money is going?
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=15964.0

Before you start bashing me, and telling great things about SR.
I understand. Respect me for being honest.
I love SR too, and I have proven it.
Comes a time to speak up.

All I'm asking is to know the facts so I can make informed choices.
If you stop letting the system nickel, and dime you death, you do ok.
Buyers are bitching at vendors cause they don't see the cut taken by SR, and the BTC market.

What's wrong with knowing the facts during checkout?
It's not complicated code to write.

I don't understand what you're saying. You want to know what SR's "cut" is, meaning what percentage of each sell are they taking? Isn't that defined somewhere in the terms/conditions?

Or are you talking about the fluctuations in the exchange rate causing you to not know exactly how many Bitcoins you can buy when you finally get everything transferred? My advice is to communicate frequently with the seller. If they truly want your business, they will email you back. I bug the SHIT out of my seller, and have since the beginning. I send him at least 3 emails before each order, telling him what I'm planning on purchasing, when I expect the funds to clear, asking what he is charging for what, how much he is sending and when, tracking number, etc.

It should be like that. There shouldn't be some lah dee dah, service where you just casually point and click and buy some heroin or meth, and a package just floats around and you notice it sitting on your front porch.

Once, I asked the seller to simply make a custom post specifically for my order, that way I didn't have to try to figure out the exchange rate, and there wasn't any risk of me accidentally not buying enough Bitcoins for what I wanted to buy. He simply made a checkout with the Bitcoin amount I was going to buy, and I paid through that. He deleted it once I finalized, and everything was hunky dory.

The vendors must love you, image 3 PM's before you even get an order.
Then what do you do after, PM him everyday to check progress.

a. So far I've heard, you are protecting the buyer. I don't buy it.
b. People might get pissed if they find out the real cost, which they should know anyhow.
c. I should know what rate BTC is at any second.
d. anybody can do the math, it's hard to make a Linux computer do math

The only excuse is b:
Hasn't stopped me from buying, but has slowed me down.
Nothing wrong with me seeing fees upfront.
Something is wrong when you make statements like "If the fee was displayed in an itemized fashion during checkout it would certainly increase the amount of buyers asking to circumvent the system. Especially those that will be required to finalize early on their order anyway." cause is probably true.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: maynardJK032 on March 30, 2012, 03:09 am
so buyers are also charged a percentage on top of vendors? I knew vendors were charged,no reason not to as long as its a reasonable fee...
mastermind behind SR deserves commission for putting this place together and keeping it running
but my question is the buyers fee included into the price at checkout?
or applied after finalizing?

honestly havent paid much attention to it but have noticed it seems like my funds decrease after some purchases... thought it was related to the BC market fluctuation


Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Isop on March 30, 2012, 03:23 am
I agree with uniwiz.  Also when orders get cancelled seems like a portion of your bitcoins do not get returned this is bs. 
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: anarcho47 on March 30, 2012, 03:51 am
I agree with uniwiz.  Also when orders get cancelled seems like a portion of your bitcoins do not get returned this is bs.

You lose 2% for the currency hedging fee if you have it selected as an option.  Regardless of whether the order goes through or not, the funds are still converted and hedges to avoid btc value fluctuation, so you pay for that (unless you go to your account page and set it so that you are exposed to the BTC market and are refunded the actual btc amount you spent).
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: raven92 on March 30, 2012, 09:37 am
I agree with uniwiz.  Also when orders get cancelled seems like a portion of your bitcoins do not get returned this is bs.

You lose 2% for the currency hedging fee if you have it selected as an option.  Regardless of whether the order goes through or not, the funds are still converted and hedges to avoid btc value fluctuation, so you pay for that (unless you go to your account page and set it so that you are exposed to the BTC market and are refunded the actual btc amount you spent).

These options do not exist for buyers. People seem to be saying both buyer and seller pay the fees which does not seem correct.

Honestly im confused....

Can a MOD just please answer these questions so this odd half assed back/forth can stop?

Wiki:

Quote
On here the two parties are the Buyer and the Vendor, and the trusted third party is Silk Road that holds onto the money until the Buyer receives his order. The escrow fee is 6.25% of the value of the order.
<- who's paying the 6.25 buyey, seller, both pay 6.25, split between buyer/seller?

Quote
When checking out, you will see which orders will be hedged and which won't. After the order is placed, your escrow balance will reflect the dollar value of your hedged orders and the Bitcoin value of your unhedged orders. All hedged orders are hedged as soon as the order is placed. So when getting a refund for hedged items, don't be surprised if the number of Bitcoins you get back is not the same as the amount you paid.
<- this shows why you dont always get the same coin back.

Quote
Commission Pricing

The final choice on the settings page is between pre- and post-commission pricing. When you use pre-commission pricing, the price you set is the amount you receive when a transaction is completed, but your customer will see a slightly higher price which is the price you set plus the commission. When using post-commission pricing, your customer will see the price you set and the commission fee is taken out of that.
<- this seems to negate that the buyer pays more ontop, honestly i've not paid enough attention to say either way..
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: yellow on April 01, 2012, 12:01 pm
Don't know about the rest of you, but if I'm honest I don't care how SR does it, or what they make, for me it's well worth it. Keep doing what they have to do to keep doing it... 8)

If it's a real issue, no one's forcing you.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on April 15, 2012, 04:46 pm
Thanks for adding the BTC rate at checkout.

I still think both buyer, and seller should see the fees calculated in.
People wonder why things cost what they do, they certainly should be able to see it.
Why be so coy about it? If it's 4% then item $100 + $4 (herge fee) + etc.
I guess the vendors enjoy explaining the SR fee structure, over, and over.

It seems using E-bay, and Amazon, as examples only when it suits your agenda. :P

Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: yellow on April 16, 2012, 09:09 am
bugger - that's some bad judgement mate :)

See that's the thing. I wasn't. Indeed it made so little sense I contacted SR. I knew the 'base $US price', worked out the equivalent in my currency, got bitcoins quickly, it was all good.

The bang, go and make the order and I was "what??".

Still, it was worth it!  ;D
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on April 16, 2012, 06:33 pm
from the buyer's guide:
Quote
Escrow hedge
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin exchange rate isn't as stable as we would all like it to be, and can fluctuate wildly in a matter of hours, let alone the days or weeks it takes for a package to arrive. Because of this, there is a real danger that the Bitcoins being held in your escrow account will lose value by the time your vendor gets paid or you are refunded. So, we've given the option to vendors to hedge the future payments they are expecting from escrow such that the dollar value of the payment doesn't change as the Bitcoin exchange rate changes.

For example, a seller is hedging the escrow for a 10 btc order you place with them, and the dollar value of your order when you purchase it is $100. Now, let's say your order never arrives and your vendor agrees to a full refund, but those 10 btc are no longer worth $100, they're worth $50! Because your vendor hedged the escrow, you won't get a refund of 10 btc, you'll get 20 btc equaling the original value of $100. Of course, the opposite is also true. If Bitcoins appreciate in value while your order is in escrow, your refund will be fewer Bitcoins, but still equaling the original dollar value.

When checking out, you will see which orders will be hedged and which won't. After the order is placed, your escrow balance will reflect the dollar value of your hedged orders and the Bitcoin value of your unhedged orders. All hedged orders are hedged as soon as the order is placed. So when getting a refund for hedged items, don't be surprised if the number of Bitcoins you get back is not the same as the amount you paid.

If you need the most up-to-date USD/BTC exchange rate, we recommend mtgoxlive.com.

from the seller's guide:
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You may also choose whether to set your price before or after commission is added. If you choose "pre-commission pricing", the price you set will be the amount of money you are paid when a transaction is complete, but your customers will see a higher price that includes the commission. If you choose "post-commission pricing", you set the price that your customers pay. When you get paid, the amount you receive will be less than this by the amount of the commission.


The commission is between the site and the vendors.  The price you pay at checkout is the price you pay.  The costs that go into that price are irrelevant to the checkout process.  Whether they are currency  exchange costs, labor costs, materials, cost from suppliers, or the commission.  If it's too high, don't buy.  the only thing you have to worry about is the part in the buyer's guide about the escrow hedge.  If you don't like it, don't buy from sellers who hedge.  And no, amazon doesn't display their commission at checkout for the same reasons.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: uniwiz on April 16, 2012, 10:58 pm
Good explanation.
Even explains why it's so confusing.
So I have to know if the seller has hedging turned on, and how they set some kind of cost option, that seems silly to me.

Got me on Amazon reference. Here's the problem, both Amazon, and E-bay hide costs in shipping, and handling.
Too much, don't buy, like you said. They don't charge when a vendor cancels an order.
Now if I'm forced to FE, why should I need hedging? That cost should be the vendor's.

At least I see the BTC, that was a plus.

I tried  :'(

I'm sure there are more important issues.
Until there is competition, which doesn't seem imminent.
The buyer's only choice is as you said.

Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: dudeguy551 on April 16, 2012, 11:15 pm
I would like to see this as well.

My main concern with it being shown for buyers, which anyone can sign up for, is that an LEO will come to the site, put an item in cart and see the itemized total with how much goes towards SR, the vendor and the product. This is WAY too much information for them to find readily. This would allow them to total up numbers REALLY fast, right now I am assuming they are merely guessing that the amount of money obtained by SR is very small and thus not worth their time. Along with the amount of product.

Let's keep it that way.
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: Tittytwister on April 16, 2012, 11:28 pm
Thanks for adding the BTC rate at checkout.

I still think both buyer, and seller should see the fees calculated in.
People wonder why things cost what they do, they certainly should be able to see it.
Why be so coy about it? If it's 4% then item $100 + $4 (herge fee) + etc.
I guess the vendors enjoy explaining the SR fee structure, over, and over.

It seems using E-bay, and Amazon, as examples only when it suits your agenda. :P

my amazon SR would display my prices in BTC and my home currency EUR, no bloody USD  :P
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: THConnoisseur on April 17, 2012, 02:17 am
current btc price would be nice...
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: deadfuture on April 17, 2012, 02:36 am
Sorry, felt I had to chime in since I saw DPR in this thread.  I know you (he, her, they, them) try your best to run this site with fees that are necessary for uptime costs, extreme risks, etc, and (somewhat) understand the fees. 

But what about those who pay the fees and have been scammed?  Sorry to beat an old fish to death but SR gets a commission on the scams just the same as a legitimate sale.  Maybe it should be a new thread, but shouldn't buyers who fall to scammers at least get the SR commission back? And possibly vice versa?

Just a thought and maybe new a new thread would be justified for this matter as it is a somewhat different topic.  Just putting in my thoughts. 

Thanks to uniwiz who always brings thoughtful topics to the table!
Title: Re: SR Admin - Want to know what I am paying for at checkout.
Post by: dudeguy551 on April 17, 2012, 03:21 am
Sorry, felt I had to chime in since I saw DPR in this thread.  I know you (he, her, they, them) try your best to run this site with fees that are necessary for uptime costs, extreme risks, etc, and (somewhat) understand the fees. 

But what about those who pay the fees and have been scammed?  Sorry to beat an old fish to death but SR gets a commission on the scams just the same as a legitimate sale.  Maybe it should be a new thread, but shouldn't buyers who fall to scammers at least get the SR commission back? And possibly vice versa?

Just a thought and maybe new a new thread would be justified for this matter as it is a somewhat different topic.  Just putting in my thoughts. 

Thanks to uniwiz who always brings thoughtful topics to the table!

I feel that would open a huge potential for reverse scamming. Scammers are already crafty as hell, they don't need a way to literally take money from SR. Perhaps the funds would be better served towards better prevention methods.