Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: DubG on February 04, 2012, 02:12 am
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
-
There is an option to designate a backup address that your SR funds will be sent to if the site was to go dark. I imagine this includes funds in escrow, but I'm not sure.
-
I really doubt if the site was seized that there would be the notice or time to do anything with btc in escrow.
-
You never know. It's possible SR has some sort of off site contingency plan for such occasions.
In any case, selling drugs always has a modicum of risk, online or off. Considering that SR has been under the microscope of a number of federal agencies for over 6 months and still they haven't been able to disrupt it in a serious way, let alone shut it down I would be reasonably confident. Not saying it's impossible to do so but at the moment things seem to be in good shape. Of course, it's at your discretion whether you want people to finalize early. I did so for my first 5 or so orders and had no issues doing so.
-
If a site is seized just the domain name is taken. SR would still have all the info and what not. He would be able to either open again on another DNS(right?) or give out all funds.
-
If SR did have contingency plan I think it is something every seller should be aware of, I haven't seen or heard anything regarding this. If someone knows about a plan that would alleviate some of my concerns I would welcome the info with open arms.
-
If SR did have contingency plan I think it is something every seller should be aware of, I haven't seen or heard anything regarding this. If someone knows about a plan that would alleviate some of my concerns I would welcome the info with open arms.
We know next to nothing about how he runs the operation, how many people he has, what country his servers are located. Because we don't know these things, neither does law enforcement. I'm happy to know as little as possible about any of his operations, for his own safety and ours.
-
If SR did have contingency plan I think it is something every seller should be aware of, I haven't seen or heard anything regarding this. If someone knows about a plan that would alleviate some of my concerns I would welcome the info with open arms.
We know next to nothing about how he runs the operation, how many people he has, what country his servers are located. Because we don't know these things, neither does law enforcement. I'm happy to know as little as possible about any of his operations, for his own safety and ours.
We don't need to know how he runs the operation, how many people he has, or what country his servers are in, knowing whether or not there is something in place that would safeguard funds via a global finalize function or something of that nature does nothing to lessen anyone's safety.
Do you have a significant amount in escrow at any given time? If you did I can guarantee you would be pondering the same questions I am.
-
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if the sellers find out that they are essentially assuming *all* the risk, they might stop sellering!
-
Honestly I'm surprised this isn't brought up more. I can relate to all the concerns voiced by DubG, and I was a little bit wigged when the site was down for a long time recently and nobody had any clue what was up. This is an inherently risky business environment, and I think that explains why some of the older hands here charge what seem like exorbinant prices: to compensate for that risk. Personally I think you need to set a limit to the amount of escrow you're comfortable with, knowing full well that you could lose it at any moment; once you hit that limit, go on vaca mode or request every subsequent order finalize early. I'm totally skeptical of the backup-btc address myself...
I'd also recommend getting contact info from solid customers you have. Then you could take your biz off the site, or it the site goes down, you'll still have order flow without the uncertainty of having evaporate here.
The management of this place is a black box, nobody knows what will happen. Keeps it interesting I guess :)
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
Interesting post from a vendors prospective and pleased to hear that for DubG business is going so well. It's very encouraging for others considering starting as vendors.
Regarding the issue raised of the bitcoins held in Escrow... I see a two-solution approach to this issue... firstly, buyers should finalize as soon as they receive the goods. Buyers need to appreciate that not releasing funds when they have the goods can cause cash flow or risk issues for vendors. I always make a point of releasing funds the same day for my vendors when I get the goods.
That said, the international side of the business obviously means some vendors are going to have to wait several weeks to get funds released in some cases if they rely on ordinary Airmail. The solution here then may be to charge more for delivery and use priority Airmail services.
Another way of approaching this problem of funds in escrow is to for vendors to transfer the risk to third parties, "insurers" if you like... I know there are some activities of this nature starting on SR now with business people with capital willing to provide credit lines to established vendors, kind of like the "factoring" services offered to businesses that offer credit, so that businesses can unlock working capital. This might be a good approach where vendors need to transfer some of the risk from certain sales/countries? This is even being done with syndicates or consortiums now so that the risk is shared.
I take the same view as others have expressed which is that vendors should not worry about SR being shutdown and their Escrow funds disappearing. Even if LE did manage to shutdown SR, it wouldn't be long before the site was back up and running again from some other servers located in other countries outside the jurisdiction of LE. I just don't see how it is practically possible for any government to shut down a service on the internet which can simply by-pass any restrictions they can throw at it.
-
it is part of the cost-risk of doing business.
if there is a " wrong pass entered 5 times then dump coins to wallets function " great.
I withdraw them when i start to get uncomfortable.
It is the price for not having to worry about johnny law as much as i did irl.
Peace out;
Christy
-
wrong pass entered 5 times then dump coins to wallets function
Now, that right there - that's a good idea.
-
and people still wonder why (some) sellers ask for early finalization (FE). they've never seen things from a vendor's perspective. take the escrow pledge? GTFO of here with that shit.
-
and people still wonder why (some) sellers ask for early finalization (FE). they've never seen things from a vendor's perspective. take the escrow pledge? GTFO of here with that shit.
I agree, if the seller is legit. I had no issues finalizing early for DubG. He seems like a very respectable person and honest businessman.
On the other hand a new seller who has fake feedback asking for finalizing early is a no-no.
-
Tor is not like normal websites for instance hidden service collisions provide a natural tor redundancy there is no load balancing or geoip crap though if one server was to go down it's about 15 min before the other server comes on it's pretty much first come first serve on which server comes up
and yes sr did make aware when the server went down last time and all sellers had to fucking add all there images again that there was several redundant servers in place
-
If I were SR I think what I would do is the following. Buyer places order all funds into escrow, seller ships product, 50% of funds released to seller. Product arrives, buyer finalizes order and remaining funds are sent to Seller.
-
I sympathize with your concern DubG. Without revealing too much, we put the minimal amount of bitcoins at risk of theft and protect the rest with dispersed cold-storage backups. Definitely use the backup address feature though, just in case.
-
Carding forums have guy's available on jabber 24/7 taking shifts when they do escrow of huge amounts. Same with exchangers, can't be too hard to set up, you'd probably get more business with the certainty of vendors being able to find somebody to ease shutdown fears
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
You will find that the longer you operate here the escrow system balances your finances and you will not have to be to concerned.
The possibility of losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars as a seller is a real possibility and if you cannot take that financial risk then you really should not be a seller in the first place.
-
and people still wonder why (some) sellers ask for early finalization (FE). they've never seen things from a vendor's perspective. take the escrow pledge? GTFO of here with that shit.
Well, from a buyer's perspective, I can understand on the first few purchases requiring the buyer to finalize early. However, without the escrow I certainly would not continue my purchases. Both buyers and sellers take risks. The buyer by sending his address and the seller by having his money tied up. The seller risks losing money, the buyer risks prison time.
-
The seller risks losing money, the buyer risks prison time.
The seller risks a lot more prison time storing large amounts of drugs, and shipping it.
You risk getting a letter in the mail from customs saying they seized your drugs, unless you live in Scandanavia and they raid your house.. and probably find nothing because you're just a personal amounts buyer.
Risk must equal reward. Sellers also have to transport and deal face to face with supremely shady people to get the drugs or precursors to make them. They risk robbery everyday as it is
Escrow is fine but would be nice to know there's some sort of 24/7 contact email or jabber or irc vendors can go to if something goes down or breaks and they can't withdraw, or the SR guy disappears.
-
The seller risks losing money, the buyer risks prison time.
The seller risks a lot more prison time storing large amounts of drugs, and shipping it.
You risk getting a letter in the mail from customs saying they seized your drugs, unless you live in Scandanavia and they raid your house.. and probably find nothing because you're just a personal amounts buyer.
Risk must equal reward. Sellers also have to transport and deal face to face with supremely shady people to get the drugs or precursors to make them. They risk robbery everyday as it is
Escrow is fine but would be nice to know there's some sort of 24/7 contact email or jabber or irc vendors can go to if something goes down or breaks and they can't withdraw, or the SR guy disappears.
I understand but, the chances of a seller being found out is pretty slim if he does not go outside of SL. The chances of the buyer being found out is much, much higher because of his address being available. The buyer trusts that the seller will immediately destroy the address but.............
-
Ot: There are no shortage of risks being a seller here. I thought the same when I first showed up, i.e. selling almost seemed safer than buying...I take the complete opposite view now.
-
Ot: There are no shortage of risks being a seller here. I thought the same when I first showed up, i.e. selling almost seemed safer than buying...I take the complete opposite view now.
Pleas explain your reasonings.
-
Just from a pure LE perspective (withstanding the fact that they actually have the capability to bust anyone on SR) going after buyers amounts to the same as busting dudes smoking joints in the park, usually they just don't care. Sellers on the other hand are the trophies they really are after, considering DubG deals in meth and GHB he's also a step higher on the ladder than your average pot dealer.
Just saying, risks are spread out.
-
Here's the way I look at it. Initially you can look at the Silkroad system, and think to yourself, "Hey, this is flawed! What if everything goes down, and I lose all my shit?" Well, people were saying this 6 months ago, too. Now here it is, 6 months later, and everything is still up and going. Those people who were speculating about the worst case scenario could have just relaxed, and kept every single order in escrow, and things would have been OK for them. The question is, what are things going to be like in the next 6 months? Everyone has their opinion on what will happen, but we all lack one thing, 100% accurate foresight.
The problem, is that we don't know what's going to happen 6 months down the road. Us humans, unfortunately, are stuck within time and space, we cannot exist outside of it. When you say to yourself this system is flawed, you're right. It's not the Silk Road that's flawed, but it's being human that's flawed. It's the human condition. What if I have all my coins in escrow, and a nuclear bomb goes off and all the internet goes down? What if my wife cheats on me in 6 months? What if I get in a car accident tomorrow? All these questions stem from the same problem.
So what do you do when faced with lack of foresight? Obviously, the only thing you can do is predict things the best that your human brain will allow you to. Follow your instincts, and don't let paranoia consume you. You take certain precautions, and take as much control of the situation as you can.
Personally, what I'd do if I were a vendor, is this. I'd periodically go on vacation mode, long enough to transfer my coins out and have them converted to cash. I'd make people finalize early, for orders over a certain size. I'd make sure to put contact info up, so I could continue my drug mailing business even if silk road were to shut down.
It'd be an awesome feeling being a successful vendor here, because you're honestly a part of history. The Silkroad may be in history books that our kid's kid's will read. Our kid's kid's might use The Silkroad themselves. The Silkroad may shut down forever in ten minutes, or it may last forever.
Btw, I put an order with you yesterday DubG, and I'm looking forward to getting it!
-
The Silkroad may be in history books that our kid's kid's will read. Our kid's kid's might use The Silkroad themselves. The Silkroad may shut down forever in ten minutes, or it may last forever.
Btw, I put an order with you yesterday DubG, and I'm looking forward to getting it!
I love this quote. Added to my sig :)
-
I love this quote. Added to my sig :)
I'm truly honored!
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
It would just be reopened at a new address.
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
You will find that the longer you operate here the escrow system balances your finances and you will not have to be to concerned.
The possibility of losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars as a seller is a real possibility and if you cannot take that financial risk then you really should not be a seller in the first place.
The first time I read this "the escrow system balances your finances and you will not have to be concerned" I thought what the fuck is this guy talking about? Anyway, after a bit over a month of selling on SR I can honestly say it isn't really something I am too concerned about anymore. I can't say that the escrow system balances my finances necessarily, but I can say that it is going smoothly and the amount of "in escrow" monies dropped a bit and have leveled off at an acceptable level.
All in all it has been quite the ride on the Silk Road and I am loving it.
-
Hello SR Forum,
This is my first thread, so consider this my introduction as well. Would of liked to do this earlier, but thanks to SR have been pretty busy. I have listed Meth & GHB, my modus operandi is to treat others the way I would like to be treated. I think I do a pretty good job at that as my feedback would support that.
My first few weeks with SR have been great, blowing away all expectations, but with that success in my mind comes maybe too much risk. I think the escrow service is a must and because as a buyer I wouldn't want to finalize early, I don't want to ask my buyers to finalize early. Due to that and the success I have had my escrow account has a balance approaching high triple digits. My concern is not so much the cash flow, although this is a significant issue I don't see it as a risk per se. My concern is what were to happen in what I think is a real distinct possibility of the site being shut down. I can't imagine ever seeing those btc again. I cannot take that large of a hit, it would destroy me financially.
I am sure there are others with much higher escrow balances that mine, do you see this as big of a risk as I do?
I would imagine this has come up before, is there any proposed solutions that would address this issue? If the demand is there and I have the product I want to sell, but at the same time I can't have multi-thousands of dollars at risk indefinitely. Is asking buyers to finalize early the only remedy. I don't like this approach, but if it is the only way??
Hopefully in future I will be able to get more involved over here in the forum. And from a whole perspective my experience here with everyone I have come across has been very positive.
DubG
You will find that the longer you operate here the escrow system balances your finances and you will not have to be to concerned.
The possibility of losing hundreds if not thousands of dollars as a seller is a real possibility and if you cannot take that financial risk then you really should not be a seller in the first place.
The first time I read this "the escrow system balances your finances and you will not have to be concerned" I thought what the fuck is this guy talking about? Anyway, after a bit over a month of selling on SR I can honestly say it isn't really something I am too concerned about anymore. I can't say that the escrow system balances my finances necessarily, but I can say that it is going smoothly and the amount of "in escrow" monies dropped a bit and have leveled off at an acceptable level.
All in all it has been quite the ride on the Silk Road and I am loving it.
DubG at one point I had $9,000 pending in Escrow. An amount like that.. just out of reach makes my palms sweat.