Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Kandra on September 05, 2011, 03:19 am
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Hello everybody.
I've discovered Silk Road for the first time yesterday and was at first very excited, then really disappointed (by the very limited supply of non-drug things, notably, and the sectarian attitude of some people).
What I'm going to say may be viewed as rude by some folks but I don't intend to insult everyone, just give my two cents.
The big problem with Silk Road is that this service doesn't have any clear, defined goal.
Some SR dwellers, of the libertarian, nerdy, anarcho-capitalist type, want to see in it the technological liberation that they have hoped for during a long time and which has been described in the famous book "The Diamond Age".
The banking system was indeed one of the last big restraints put on individual liberty on Earth. To make it simple, it is an absolute monopoly controlled by a few people with very close ties to governments, and a sector which has not evolved at all since the Middle Ages (if you exclude the credit card, the ATM and the definitive advent of fractional banking). Their personal power and control over economies is tremendous; so is the amount of information they want from you and the fees they charge you for a simple international wire transfer.
Decentralized currencies have good chances to weaken these people ; the same way eMule, BitTorrent and Limewire have destroyed the Majors.
Then you have the other dwellers, the majority (from what I've seen on the forum at least), who are of the rasta, "peace and love" or "psychedelics" type, here for the drugs and the drugs only.
To my mind, these two kinds of dwellers are simply biologically incompatible. Thus the frictions, tensions, insults and endless debates, and the total absence of a long-term project for Silk Road.
- The anarcho-capitalists are of course pro-guns, even pro-explosives, and sometimes even pro-WMDs. They hate the liberal democracies we live in today and think the Nation-State is an obsolete concept. But above all, they want SR to embody the "technological revolution". They want it to become the most popular possible so as to develop an economic counter-power, an economic secession.
- The "drug users" are simply there for the convenient marketplace. They want to keep SR hidden, unpopular, like an elite club.
There is a huge contradiction there and it doesn't make the forum a pleasant place to navigate... I'd even say that the two groups hate each other. The several big topics on Guns I've read are really full of insults, ad hominem attacks and ridiculous arguments on both sides.
It is up to the creator of this fascinating website to decide what to do. But one thing is certain: it is time to decide wether we want to bring a lot of people on board or keep it a circle jerk. The economy works through vicious and virtuous circles only ; an empty market doesn't attract a lot of people, and bis repetita. Besides, those who want it hidden will view from a very bad eye those who do publicity for it, and inversely.
For now it seems that the second position (keep it hidden) has been chosen for security reasons.
This is strange, for a simple reason: killing Silk Road would mandatorily mean killing Tor. Killing Tor would mean killing the TCP/IP Protocol. And the world economy has simply become too dependent on the Internet for the world elite to reverse the steam just like that.
So what do you fear exactly?
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It is interesting to hear your perspective Kandra. Stick around a while and hopefully you can get to know everyone better and even become a part of the community that has formed here.
As far as non-drug items go, it's not that surprising. This is a niche market for things you can't get more easily from places like amazon, ebay, and retail shops. There is an added cost to doing things the way we do, and at least for the time being, you're going to be able to get legal goods more cheaply and easily from these other places. Eventually, we may win out because of our advantages over these other markets (e.g. vendors don't have to pay taxes on their profits from sales here).
From what I've seen, despite some problems like attracting scammers, the market has only gotten better as more people have joined in. More buyers means more competition among sellers in the form of excellent customer service, low prices, and quality goods. More sellers means an expanding array of offerings, which attracts even more buyers. So far, this is the virtuous circle that has driven growth here IMHO. More people and a diversity of opinions is a good thing, and I would be hesitant to lump our diverse community into two opposing categories. By and large, there is much more cooperation and camaraderie than conflict and I'm generally impressed with the level of discourse.
Maybe you have a point, though. There very well could be a place for multiple similar markets that cater to different folks. In fact I hope that is the case. I'd rather Silk Road be the leading market in a growing industry, than trying to take on the establishment alone :)
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Interesting post, I'm sure it will foster some decent (and not so much) discussion. Here's my somewhat scatterbrained opinions, pls take them as just that:
"To my mind, these two kinds of dwellers are simply biologically incompatible. Thus the frictions, tensions, insults and endless debates, and the total absence of a long-term project for Silk Road."
"There is a huge contradiction there and it doesn't make the forum a pleasant place to navigate... I'd even say that the two groups hate each other. The several big topics on Guns I've read are really full of insults, ad hominem attacks and ridiculous arguments on both sides. "
The labels and judgments you make are kind of self defeating. You say it should be totally open (it is) but then tell all the reason YOU think things should be different why YOU are disappointed. Of course there are tons of paranoid drug users here...did you expect different on an open drug vending site? Yet things run very counter to what any arrangement you see outside of SR. The users are generally bright, honest and fair people, very understanding, and willing to cooperate with each other. If this is really your 1st day, you can hardly make a judgment on that front...have you utilized SR? You seem to be advocating total openness and a non-hierarchical structure of what is sold and who should be let in; yet your comments of why some users you speak of are wrong for SR are in and of itself a hierarchical judgment. You are now saying what and who is ok, and IMO, that is what's not ok. I believe it should be truly integral. But you make a lot of good points...some natural judements have to be made.
The site is open. How can SR "bring a lot of people on board?" They've nothing to do with who registers or not. The reason you can't open it up to the world with a www.sr.com site is pretty obvious. IP's, traceable transaction etc...In most countries, esp the USA we must contend with an adversary that has virtually unlimited resources to bother and dictate to people's personal lives. You almost have to be in a perpetual battle mode of thinking...if we became complacent or too comfortable the state WOULD take us down for a news headline. They WILL ruin your life for a political score point. That's scary...it has to be in even SR's mind as well. The site is very open IMO, literally anyone who can figure it out (the info is everywhere) can register and buy things very quickly. But being anonymous is for our own protection. The site is mostly for drugs, was started for drugs. SR would need to bring a lot of help on board I believe if they were to make it a truly anonymous marketplace were any and all wares were up for grabs. I believe the SR admin is doing most of this alone...hence the now hiring sign. This site isn't even a year old. So a lot of the things you speak of are down the pipes so to speak I believe...still working out a lot of the kinks.
The varying opinions you speak of are just that. Opinions on a forum, they are bound to be vastly different...yet when you boil it all down they are in the same league and actually we are just discussing and refining a cutting-edge idea that we mostly agree on. But this is a site mostly for drug buyers I think that obvious. You may not agree with the pigeon hollers (i don't either) but to label them this or that and say they are wrong...that would be merely replicating the states own labeling of what is to be or is not to be.
Another great SR quote in response to a question about addiction:
“I am so sorry if someone you know has been hurt by drugs, but it is my sincere hope that by making drugs available in a safe, secure, and predictable way, that we will eliminate the violence and danger of obtaining and using drugs through traditional methods. We also hope that, by increasing competition for providing drugs in our marketplace, the quality will rise and price will drop, so that addicts can afford the drugs they need and still have money left over to live a normal life, without as much danger of overdose."
I remember reading that it was at least somewhat inspired by the Agorist philosophy: “The state is the primary source of violence, oppression, theft and all forms of coercion,” “Stop funding the state with your tax dollars and direct your productive energies into the black market.” quote SR.
Personally, like many I'd say...I do dream of a completely open market. A TRULY free market would include all market's correct? So the term "black market" is just a label that's been affixed to deem it as outside. Like I said before, it new here. The currency, the site...everything. SR does listen, it is more or less a community driven site were ideas are taken to heart I feel. But for me I fear the STATE taking away everything I care for and believe in...they can and will if they got the chance. So that's why I feel so many measures should be taken to protect us. That being said, I'm also actively participating...I want to be apart of this, and not just for the good weed!
Good post
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I have a couple of points of contention with your post.
The first is that the "drug-types" and the "anarcho-capitalists" (the category I would consider myself to fall into, if we're doing that) are opposed. We aren't. Drug-types are claiming the right to their own body, which is a part of the idea of anarcho-capitalism. I haven't had any real conflicts with anybody over ideology on here, and I would also point out that a very small portion of the overall discussion on this site is actually devoted to the "guns or no guns on here" or "small club versus open-door policy" discussions.
The vast majority of the discussion on here is, in fact, EXACTLY what anarcho-capitalism is - people interacting, peacefully for the most part, but also having conflict and attempting resolution. People vetting sellers and buying experiences because there is an intrinsic value to being the contrarian, and also to helping others either by volunteering something or exchanging/increasing wealth. This forum is a great example of how anarcho-capitalism works and I think you are just focusing on a small aspect of the community that happens to be the most conflict-rife. There are several hundreds of posts in the "drug safety" section of this forum, by people who stand to gain absolutely nothing materially from contributing their experience to those trying things out for the first time. It's really incredible.
As to your point about whether we have a choice to leave it open - that rests entirely on the site's ownership. Just like you can buy from a Walmart by walking in the door, but you can't buy from a Sam's Club unless you have a membership card, it's up to SR whether he/they want to erect a barrier to entry in any way. I personally don't think they should, because the IDEA of SR is more important than this instance of it. I'm not sure why you are here, if it's just to check out something cool you heard about, to engage in trade, to offer up advice/opinions, ask questions, etc. Could be all of them. And any or all of those are fine.
I dont' think that SR is currently, actively trying to keep the site hidden. The barriers to entry thus far are simply precautions against violent states who would inflict harm on people for acting of their own volition and not hurting anyone else, including and especially those who have set this place up. They are not intended to keep people out, but to let people who wish to be SAFE come in. The doors are all open, you just have to go about finding the keys on your own. Besides that, it is a sensational story and there really is no other way this will pan out except to continually increase and possible sprout clones all over the place (my own hope, as every good idea is eventually held to the accountability of competition once it becomes a market reality). Just because SR isn't posting Google Adwords ads and buying up billboard space across the world doesn't mean they are trying to keep people out - if we had no states this would be just a normal website with SSL and that's it (or it would go bankrupt becuase its competitors would be easier to get to).
Every transaction that takes place on here, especially if it is watched by media and a curious public, displays the total failure and irrelevency of the State. One of the "drug types" might see it as a small triumph in getting their drug of choice and beating the "system", but the larger picture is that this in fact does stomp on millenia-old fallacies every single day, and I am thankful for that fact alone outside of the fact I can make a profit on here and people are happy to buy my product.
And finally to your last point - it is logical and makes perfect sense. However states are not logical, rational creatures. They suffer from the worst form of groupthink with no natural restraining mechanisms on them. Angering a state creates massive collateral damage and just invites them to cause suffering. If the site has a groundswell bottom-up, it will make a stronger case than a sensationalism one ever could...
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It was nice to see such a well written thread!
also to see a measured, steady response from SR.
as for my two red cents - I think ultimately for this to work, it has to be liberation all the way.
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The big problem with Silk Road is that this service doesn't have any clear, defined goal.
Agreed. SR is in its infancy and as it grows, we're seeing it form as primarily a drug marketplace. Its obviously not written that SR is just for drugs, but 90% of the purchases made probably involve them. If you need to associate a single vision with this site, that would be it more than anything (imo)
Some SR dwellers, of the libertarian, nerdy, anarcho-capitalist type, want to see in it the technological liberation that they have hoped for during a long time and which has been described in the famous book "The Diamond Age".
I'm a libertarian nerdy type, and yeah we all have our dreams ;), but when it comes to SR, I have no grand hope for this place to be anything but a drug marketplace. I've always thought we should focus on the drugs, while still keeping the other categories so that the site can grow in all areas if the demand is there. But realistically, people aren't going to buy twizzlers through an anonymous store, using unstable crypto-currency because they have absolutely zero incentive.
The banking system was indeed one of the last big restraints put on individual liberty on Earth. To make it simple, it is an absolute monopoly controlled by a few people with very close ties to governments, and a sector which has not evolved at all since the Middle Ages (if you exclude the credit card, the ATM and the definitive advent of fractional banking). Their personal power and control over economies is tremendous; so is the amount of information they want from you and the fees they charge you for a simple international wire transfer.
Decentralized currencies have good chances to weaken these people ; the same way eMule, BitTorrent and Limewire have destroyed the Majors.
People aren't using SR to fight for our right not to pay ATM fees or to loosen the grip governments and banks have on our economies in general. Most people don't realize how controlled we are. or even if they do, they recognize that others don't and the demand for this kind of service does not yet exist. So its not even on their radar. Even though I'm libertarian-minded, this has always been a drug marketplace for me. I'm fine with most of the other stuff, but it doesn't interest me and I imagine I'm not alone in that thinking.
Then you have the other dwellers, the majority (from what I've seen on the forum at least), who are of the rasta, "peace and love" or "psychedelics" type, here for the drugs and the drugs only.
I definitely have seen that type around, except I'm not positive they're the majority. The majority definitely want to buy drugs, but I've seen no evidence that the majority is rasta/peace-nik, etc. Nor do I think you can know, since most people on the boards don't share their politics. Hell, they may be apolitical. All we really know is most people are here to buy drugs. I guess people's personal politics don't interest me here as much as their quality as a seller or buyer. More than anything else, the divide is between people wanting to make an honest business out of this and asshole fly-by-night scammers.
To my mind, these two kinds of dwellers are simply biologically incompatible. Thus the frictions, tensions, insults and endless debates, and the total absence of a long-term project for Silk Road.
I like to think we all get along well enough :) But to the point: I think SR is still fleshing out its long term goals, and you're going to see a lot of types here, not just the two you mentioned. SR himself seems to a libertarian, so I think we should definitely expect a strong libertarian element. But libertarians believe in a free market and an invisible hand. If that invisible hand says this is a drug site, I don't see libertarians getting up in arms. No true libertarian would anyway.
- The anarcho-capitalists are of course pro-guns, even pro-explosives, and sometimes even pro-WMDs. They hate the liberal democracies we live in today and think the Nation-State is an obsolete concept. But above all, they want SR to embody the "technological revolution". They want it to become the most popular possible so as to develop an economic counter-power, an economic secession.
I agree there is a divide between wanting the site to blow up or stay small, but I think that divide mostly falls along the paranoia spectrum, not the political spectrum. ;)
- The "drug users" are simply there for the convenient marketplace. They want to keep SR hidden, unpopular, like an elite club.
Nope, as someone who supports this being known primarily as a drug marketplace, I can tell you that I do not want SR hidden or unpopular. I just want it untraceable. I think more buyers and more sellers will mean better prices. What people want this market to sell isn't necessarily reflective of the desired size or openness of this market. Paranoid wants small, non paranoid wants open.
There is a huge contradiction there and it doesn't make the forum a pleasant place to navigate... I'd even say that the two groups hate each other. The several big topics on Guns I've read are really full of insults, ad hominem attacks and ridiculous arguments on both sides.
The gun issue is a touchy one here in the forums and doesn't seem to go away, but I think the vast majority of SR users don't really care very strongly about it. They're here to buy drugs and even if the guns make them uncomfortable, its not making them uncomfortable enough to leave.
It is up to the creator of this fascinating website to decide what to do. But one thing is certain: it is time to decide wether we want to bring a lot of people on board or keep it a circle jerk. The economy works through vicious and virtuous circles only ; an empty market doesn't attract a lot of people, and bis repetita. Besides, those who want it hidden will view from a very bad eye those who do publicity for it, and inversely.
For now it seems that the second position (keep it hidden) has been chosen for security reasons.
This is strange, for a simple reason: killing Silk Road would mandatorily mean killing Tor. Killing Tor would mean killing the TCP/IP Protocol. And the world economy has simply become too dependent on the Internet for the world elite to reverse the steam just like that.
So what do you fear exactly?
I don't think we're trying to stay hidden. Many, many buyers and sellers have stated how they'd love more buyers and sellers, simply because they know that would benefit all of us. SR hasn't closed or limited buyer accounts in any way and releases a new seller account every 48 hours.
I don't understand the last part about the internet shutting down. I feel like there are gaps between every step that need explaining. Like, why does the end of SR signal the end of Tor? Tor was around before SR and is very capable of surviving without it. Tor is merely technology. But then assuming that technology is somehow destroyed, how do you jump to TCP/IP protocol and the internet in general crumbling? I may have missed something, but this just seems like a huge stretch.
All in all, I think that while we have our differences, we aren't at each other's throats as often as you might think. And even if we do bicker about this stuff, it hasn't seemed to affect our buying / selling relationships, so in what way will this difference of opinion spell the end of SR?
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I'm here mainly as one of the psychadelic types the OP mentioned, as this is by far the best way to get those type of things where i am. But I also consider my self to be an "Anarcho-Realist" (I haven't heard this term used in actual anarchist circles so please don't give me grief about this not being a real thing, I know...)
Basically I like the ideals of a lack of State, and consider Anarchism to be the next evolution of human society (democracy when it's actually in place is a means to an end IMO), but realistically I understand I'm probably not going to see it in my life time. So I strive to bring more anarchaic ideals into everything I can, one example relevant here would be advocating the relaxation of certain laws (such as drug laws, especially on things like Cannabis, LSD, Shrooms, ect...)
The point is the two groups originally described aren't mutually exclusive, and whilst I have no interest in weapons myself, I respect that in certain situations they can be great tools, and I respect those who have a desire or need to obtain these. I'm against violence of any form, but it's not for me to tell someone how to live, as it's not for others to tell me how to live.
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As to your point about whether we have a choice to leave it open - that rests entirely on the site's ownership. Just like you can buy from a Walmart by walking in the door, but you can't buy from a Sam's Club unless you have a membership card, it's up to SR whether he/they want to erect a barrier to entry in any way. I personally don't think they should, because the IDEA of SR is more important than this instance of it. I'm not sure why you are here, if it's just to check out something cool you heard about, to engage in trade, to offer up advice/opinions, ask questions, etc. Could be all of them. And any or all of those are fine.
I agree with this. I must have missed it the first time, because I definitely agree. We can talk all we want, but this marketplace is a business run by SR and what he says is law. That said, I think his actions have tended to support a hands off, invisible hand approach. And if that is the approach he plans on taking, then I don't see any anarcho capitalists or libertarians complaining about the outcome.
Every transaction that takes place on here, especially if it is watched by media and a curious public, displays the total failure and irrelevency of the State. One of the "drug types" might see it as a small triumph in getting their drug of choice and beating the "system", but the larger picture is that this in fact does stomp on millenia-old fallacies every single day, and I am thankful for that fact alone outside of the fact I can make a profit on here and people are happy to buy my product.
+1
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Hi Kandra,
I'm not sure what your point is (expand the community ? finding more non-drugs items ? Stop the "hate" ? ). Anyway, before judging this community, you should be more familiar with it. I believe that you're not well acquainted with this community, since you establish from the start a false dichotomy. Yeah right, only two types of users here. Fucking lol at bad sociology, not even mentioning faulty reasoning.
Some SR dwellers, of the libertarian, nerdy, anarcho-capitalist type, want to see in it the technological liberation that they have hoped for during a long time and which has been described in the famous book "The Diamond Age".
Then you have the other dwellers, the majority (from what I've seen on the forum at least), who are of the rasta, "peace and love" or "psychedelics" type, here for the drugs and the drugs only.
See, I'm no more a libertarian /anarcho-capitalist than just a "rasta" , "peace & love" drug user. (jeez, what planet are you from ? what is your reality like ? who or what forced you to establish such narrow categories ?)
As anarcho47 said, I'm somewhere in between those two categories. Yes, there is a spectrum. Say, a drug user who is a proponent of responsible use of drugs ?
This is strange, for a simple reason: killing Silk Road would mandatorily mean killing Tor. Killing Tor would mean killing the TCP/IP Protocol. And the world economy has simply become too dependent on the Internet for the world elite to reverse the steam just like that.
Probably one of the worst slippery slope I've ever witnessed. You can't chime in here, say people have ridiculous arguments when yours are worse than ridiculous. You can't be serious.
I appreciate your courage though. But you should definitely come here with a more refined worldview (or SR Community view) if you ever want to be taken seriously.
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Hello everybody.
I've discovered Silk Road for the first time yesterday and was at first very excited, then really disappointed (by the very limited supply of non-drug things, notably, and the sectarian attitude of some people).
What I'm going to say may be viewed as rude by some folks but I don't intend to insult everyone, just give my two cents.
The big problem with Silk Road is that this service doesn't have any clear, defined goal.
Some SR dwellers, of the libertarian, nerdy, anarcho-capitalist type, want to see in it the technological liberation that they have hoped for during a long time and which has been described in the famous book "The Diamond Age".
The banking system was indeed one of the last big restraints put on individual liberty on Earth. To make it simple, it is an absolute monopoly controlled by a few people with very close ties to governments, and a sector which has not evolved at all since the Middle Ages (if you exclude the credit card, the ATM and the definitive advent of fractional banking). Their personal power and control over economies is tremendous; so is the amount of information they want from you and the fees they charge you for a simple international wire transfer.
Decentralized currencies have good chances to weaken these people ; the same way eMule, BitTorrent and Limewire have destroyed the Majors.
Then you have the other dwellers, the majority (from what I've seen on the forum at least), who are of the rasta, "peace and love" or "psychedelics" type, here for the drugs and the drugs only.
To my mind, these two kinds of dwellers are simply biologically incompatible. Thus the frictions, tensions, insults and endless debates, and the total absence of a long-term project for Silk Road.
- The anarcho-capitalists are of course pro-guns, even pro-explosives, and sometimes even pro-WMDs. They hate the liberal democracies we live in today and think the Nation-State is an obsolete concept. But above all, they want SR to embody the "technological revolution". They want it to become the most popular possible so as to develop an economic counter-power, an economic secession.
- The "drug users" are simply there for the convenient marketplace. They want to keep SR hidden, unpopular, like an elite club.
There is a huge contradiction there and it doesn't make the forum a pleasant place to navigate... I'd even say that the two groups hate each other. The several big topics on Guns I've read are really full of insults, ad hominem attacks and ridiculous arguments on both sides.
It is up to the creator of this fascinating website to decide what to do. But one thing is certain: it is time to decide wether we want to bring a lot of people on board or keep it a circle jerk. The economy works through vicious and virtuous circles only ; an empty market doesn't attract a lot of people, and bis repetita. Besides, those who want it hidden will view from a very bad eye those who do publicity for it, and inversely.
For now it seems that the second position (keep it hidden) has been chosen for security reasons.
This is strange, for a simple reason: killing Silk Road would mandatorily mean killing Tor. Killing Tor would mean killing the TCP/IP Protocol. And the world economy has simply become too dependent on the Internet for the world elite to reverse the steam just like that.
So what do you fear exactly?
The goal of Silk Road seemed to be obvious to me when I first saw the site. An anonymous marketplace, which forbids very few goods/services. Drugs are on the menu simply because they befit the menu of an anonymous marketplace.
Apart from that, I believe there are many assumptions in your post :) How do you know every member of SR belong to either of those two categories?
Edit: sp
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I have a couple of points of contention with your post.
The first is that the "drug-types" and the "anarcho-capitalists" (the category I would consider myself to fall into, if we're doing that) are opposed. We aren't. Drug-types are claiming the right to their own body, which is a part of the idea of anarcho-capitalism. I haven't had any real conflicts with anybody over ideology on here, and I would also point out that a very small portion of the overall discussion on this site is actually devoted to the "guns or no guns on here" or "small club versus open-door policy" discussions.
The vast majority of the discussion on here is, in fact, EXACTLY what anarcho-capitalism is - people interacting, peacefully for the most part, but also having conflict and attempting resolution. People vetting sellers and buying experiences because there is an intrinsic value to being the contrarian, and also to helping others either by volunteering something or exchanging/increasing wealth. This forum is a great example of how anarcho-capitalism works and I think you are just focusing on a small aspect of the community that happens to be the most conflict-rife. There are several hundreds of posts in the "drug safety" section of this forum, by people who stand to gain absolutely nothing materially from contributing their experience to those trying things out for the first time. It's really incredible.
As to your point about whether we have a choice to leave it open - that rests entirely on the site's ownership. Just like you can buy from a Walmart by walking in the door, but you can't buy from a Sam's Club unless you have a membership card, it's up to SR whether he/they want to erect a barrier to entry in any way. I personally don't think they should, because the IDEA of SR is more important than this instance of it. I'm not sure why you are here, if it's just to check out something cool you heard about, to engage in trade, to offer up advice/opinions, ask questions, etc. Could be all of them. And any or all of those are fine.
I dont' think that SR is currently, actively trying to keep the site hidden. The barriers to entry thus far are simply precautions against violent states who would inflict harm on people for acting of their own volition and not hurting anyone else, including and especially those who have set this place up. They are not intended to keep people out, but to let people who wish to be SAFE come in. The doors are all open, you just have to go about finding the keys on your own. Besides that, it is a sensational story and there really is no other way this will pan out except to continually increase and possible sprout clones all over the place (my own hope, as every good idea is eventually held to the accountability of competition once it becomes a market reality). Just because SR isn't posting Google Adwords ads and buying up billboard space across the world doesn't mean they are trying to keep people out - if we had no states this would be just a normal website with SSL and that's it (or it would go bankrupt becuase its competitors would be easier to get to).
Every transaction that takes place on here, especially if it is watched by media and a curious public, displays the total failure and irrelevency of the State. One of the "drug types" might see it as a small triumph in getting their drug of choice and beating the "system", but the larger picture is that this in fact does stomp on millenia-old fallacies every single day, and I am thankful for that fact alone outside of the fact I can make a profit on here and people are happy to buy my product.
And finally to your last point - it is logical and makes perfect sense. However states are not logical, rational creatures. They suffer from the worst form of groupthink with no natural restraining mechanisms on them. Angering a state creates massive collateral damage and just invites them to cause suffering. If the site has a groundswell bottom-up, it will make a stronger case than a sensationalism one ever could...
+1 out-fucking-standing, Anarcho
agreed 200%
L75
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Being in the category of "drug-types", I want to pose another question: have, any of you, heard about Maha Maya?
If yes, good. If no, its an hinduistic term that means "grand illusion", to make it simple, nothing really exists. Everything is an illusion, except you, because you exist someway, otherwise we wouldn't be here. If all our knowledge of reality is based in sensorial experiences, the concept of Maha Maya may be true, and is valid by quantum physics theories.
My point is that if everything is an illusion, why spend time searching anwsers in the external world, if Truth is inside us? Why give SR a goal if doesn't need to have one? Why cant be the goal only use drugs to have feelings that can lead us to oblivion or heaven? Why you people need to have objetives and forget to really live?
The selling of guns, the LE, CP, etc, all of them are things that you lose your time and mind thinking and you may forget to search another things, like using DMT to heal yourself, or using opiates to understand the true sensation of relaxing.
You say that we, drug users, are here for drugs and drugs only, but I'm here for the truth behind this big illusion, having new feelings and experiences that go beyond your "long term project for SR".
Don't think this is an attack or offense, this is only my opinion, and I trully want you to do whatever you want, and be happy and have love in your life. But what I'm trying to do is open up your mind to new ways of thinking.
The world was already here when we were born, and will stay here when we die. Don't worry about him.
Peace and Love
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Being in the category of "drug-types", I want to pose another question: have, any of you, heard about Maha Maya?
If yes, good. If no, its an hinduistic term that means "grand illusion", to make it simple, nothing really exists. Everything is an illusion, except you, because you exist someway, otherwise we wouldn't be here. If all our knowledge of reality is based in sensorial experiences, the concept of Maha Maya may be true, and is valid by quantum physics theories.
My point is that if everything is an illusion, why spend time searching anwsers in the external world, if Truth is inside us? Why give SR a goal if doesn't need to have one? Why cant be the goal only use drugs to have feelings that can lead us to oblivion or heaven? Why you people need to have objetives and forget to really live?
The selling of guns, the LE, CP, etc, all of them are things that you lose your time and mind thinking and you may forget to search another things, like using DMT to heal yourself, or using opiates to understand the true sensation of relaxing.
You say that we, drug users, are here for drugs and drugs only, but I'm here for the truth behind this big illusion, having new feelings and experiences that go beyond your "long term project for SR".
Don't think this is an attack or offense, this is only my opinion, and I trully want you to do whatever you want, and be happy and have love in your life. But what I'm trying to do is open up your mind to new ways of thinking.
The world was already here when we were born, and will stay here when we die. Don't worry about him.
Peace and Love
Dude, I'm sorry but that is essentially another devolving of human potential into post-modern drivel. It always takes that same form, the same subjective tone. Look, the fact of the matter is there are universal, quanifiable facts to life. If you dont' eat, you will starve to death. If you don't drink water, you will die of dehydration. If you enact a state, eventually mass violence and mass murder will be a part of life. If you take 3g of herion you will most likely die.
The fact of the matter is that, while there is certainly a spiritual element to the possession of a soul, something humans seem to solely possess in this physical realm, it makes up a vastly small portion of our lives. If we spend all of our time focusing on it, we end up being bums in the street contributing nothing to our fellow man.
Goals are good. Understanding cause and effect of all human interactions, as well as the universal motivation behind them, is good. Universal constants are good, they give you something to take for granted (we all as humans do 99.9% of the time) so that you can function outside of those things. That is an old way of thinking, brother, and the most prominent figures in history who subscribed to it either used state coercion to subsidize their lifestyles, or ended up philosophizing from the gutter with an ever-present wine bottle in rapt attention.....
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Being in the category of "drug-types", I want to pose another question: have, any of you, heard about Maha Maya?
If yes, good. If no, its an hinduistic term that means "grand illusion", to make it simple, nothing really exists. Everything is an illusion, except you, because you exist someway, otherwise we wouldn't be here. If all our knowledge of reality is based in sensorial experiences, the concept of Maha Maya may be true, and is valid by quantum physics theories.
My point is that if everything is an illusion, why spend time searching anwsers in the external world, if Truth is inside us? Why give SR a goal if doesn't need to have one? Why cant be the goal only use drugs to have feelings that can lead us to oblivion or heaven? Why you people need to have objetives and forget to really live?
The selling of guns, the LE, CP, etc, all of them are things that you lose your time and mind thinking and you may forget to search another things, like using DMT to heal yourself, or using opiates to understand the true sensation of relaxing.
You say that we, drug users, are here for drugs and drugs only, but I'm here for the truth behind this big illusion, having new feelings and experiences that go beyond your "long term project for SR".
Don't think this is an attack or offense, this is only my opinion, and I trully want you to do whatever you want, and be happy and have love in your life. But what I'm trying to do is open up your mind to new ways of thinking.
The world was already here when we were born, and will stay here when we die. Don't worry about him.
Peace and Love
All I'm going to say to that is the philosophy is definitely interesting. However getting too sucked into that seems like an easy way to avoid living your life if you ask me. I mean if nothing's real, what is the point of doing anything at all? I'm of the opinion the entire universe is simply a complex chemical reaction still trying to reach equilibrium, and that does bring up some big questions about free will and the meaning of life, but I'm sure not going to waste the time I have in this life worried about. Life is way too short.
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Dude, I'm sorry but that is essentially another devolving of human potential into post-modern drivel. It always takes that same form, the same subjective tone. Look, the fact of the matter is there are universal, quanifiable facts to life. If you dont' eat, you will starve to death. If you don't drink water, you will die of dehydration. If you enact a state, eventually mass violence and mass murder will be a part of life. If you take 3g of herion you will most likely die.
The fact of the matter is that, while there is certainly a spiritual element to the possession of a soul, something humans seem to solely possess in this physical realm, it makes up a vastly small portion of our lives. If we spend all of our time focusing on it, we end up being bums in the street contributing nothing to our fellow man.
Goals are good. Understanding cause and effect of all human interactions, as well as the universal motivation behind them, is good. Universal constants are good, they give you something to take for granted (we all as humans do 99.9% of the time) so that you can function outside of those things. That is an old way of thinking, brother, and the most prominent figures in history who subscribed to it either used state coercion to subsidize their lifestyles, or ended up philosophizing from the gutter with an ever-present wine bottle in rapt attention.....
Another key concept is the first (please forgive my english, not native speaker) alchemist principle: the Universe is the All, and the All create the Universe everytime. In other terms, everything has an Essence, the One, God, whatever you want. So, if everything has god, nothing is wrong or right, there is no Evil or Good. Maha Maya is broken when one find the Essence.
One thing that you didin't quite get it is that there is no need for goals. There is no Evil, there is no Good, only illusion and Truth. You can choose live the illusion or not, you can choose accept the Truth or not, its your choice, not mine. You ask me whats the point of life, I say "only you can find it". People today love to talk about their finding of God or something like that, but the Truth is inside you, and thats my point. You said that we all need food to live, but there is some mistics that only have sunbaths for food, and try to live like plants. So, again, who is right? Does it matter or not?
Nothing matters, using drugs make you see that, or at least give you an glimpse. If you guys want, I can make another topic explaining what I thing of drugs and etc. But my point is that SR doesn't need a goal, just need to live freely. If is destroyed, we can rebuild.
All I'm going to say to that is the philosophy is definitely interesting. However getting too sucked into that seems like an easy way to avoid living your life if you ask me. I mean if nothing's real, what is the point of doing anything at all? I'm of the opinion the entire universe is simply a complex chemical reaction still trying to reach equilibrium, and that does bring up some big questions about free will and the meaning of life, but I'm sure not going to waste the time I have in this life worried about. Life is way too short.
And using drugs isn't a way of avoiding your life? Talking about others isn't a way of avoiding yourself? I can think about millions of things that make us avoid something. One thing is that you, once create concience about it, about the "avoidance", you become free of it. It's not a matter of fighting against it, it is a matter of creating concience about it.
Life isn't short, because is eternal. You live in Maha Maya, this life that you know is an illusion. You can belive it or not, you will still be on it. Seeking the Truth is the true finding of "Life", and for that, you have to look to yourself.
Peace and Love
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It's not as easy as classifying everybody into two groups. I look at it from an existential viewpoint, that is the individual’s importance over society’s rules.
That said I don't believe in total anarchism. I think that we benefit from most of societal mechanisms, except of course when it comes to drug enforcement.
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I'm too stoned to write a whole big thing like I'd want to -
but just wanted to tell Anarcho to keep up the good fight,
your philosophy on the matter hit the nail on the head.
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Thanks! And I will, so long as I have customers to purchase my fine wares.... (wink wink)
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Re: What is the goal of Silk Road ?
To get rich or die trying.
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And using drugs isn't a way of avoiding your life? Talking about others isn't a way of avoiding yourself?
I honestly have to say no. There have been times I've been tripping and thought to myself, "I have never felt more alive than I do right now." I've thought similar things completely sober as well, but the point is drugs are definitely not an escape or way to avoid anything for me. If anything, I get a lot more clarity on issues I may be experiencing during a trip, face the issues in a more head on fashion, and I've found my mental health has improved greatly.
I respect your philosophy though, and as I said earlier it is very interesting.
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I think the goal of Silk Road is way beyond the site it's self, It's about true freedom and what can come from that freedom.
:P
nomad bloodbath
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And using drugs isn't a way of avoiding your life? Talking about others isn't a way of avoiding yourself?
I honestly have to say no. There have been times I've been tripping and thought to myself, "I have never felt more alive than I do right now." I've thought similar things completely sober as well, but the point is drugs are definitely not an escape or way to avoid anything for me. If anything, I get a lot more clarity on issues I may be experiencing during a trip, face the issues in a more head on fashion, and I've found my mental health has improved greatly.
I respect your philosophy though, and as I said earlier it is very interesting.
Your totally right, in your way you don't use drugs as an escape route. But it doesn't mean that everyone use drugs like you. The way that I used in my argument is the way of getting blind for your own problems.
You should read something about hinduism, I studied many religions, but hindi is the most complex and "love giver" of all.
Peace and Love
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I don't understand why this site really needs a set goal. Lets just all just enjoy it and see where it goes. I don't really think we can accurately stereotype the people on this forum. I'm not a tree hugging hippy. Am not an anarchist. I'm just a guy who want to make some money and do some drugs. And I do think its cool that we have guns on here. I really want a fully automatic M-16 for self defense. Alot of my personal face to face friends that also use silkroad are just regular people too.
-Magic