Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: RastaMan on July 17, 2011, 01:17 am

Title: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: RastaMan on July 17, 2011, 01:17 am
I see that an item I list for 5.99 sells for 6.36 ,

That's roughly 6.5% fees. Is this right? Anyone else can confirm this?
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: XMachina on July 17, 2011, 02:30 am
Yes, it seems to have gone up from 5% to 6.5%
Gotta fund the hedge fund maybe?
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Kind Bud on July 17, 2011, 03:31 am
visa only charges retailers 2.9 - 3.5 % and customers get full money back protection. Better watch out Silk or more and more people will start buying outside of escrow, especially if they are repeat customers and already trust the seller.

Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: smodcastle on July 17, 2011, 03:37 am
meh, U.S. government has been skimmin that much off every purchase ive ever made my whole life! at least silk road isnt saying that if we refuse to use their service or pay a retroactive tax, theyll throw us in cages and rob us of our livelihood indefinitely...  ;)  ~smod
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: deletedme on July 17, 2011, 01:38 pm

I'm personally fine with SR charging some fees, but I'd prefer them to be made explicit in the seller/buyer guide and agreements,
and also publicly announced on the forum.

atm the fee seems to be 6.2%.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Kind Bud on July 17, 2011, 04:37 pm
I totally support Silk Road but 5% mandatory was already on the high side. GreenCo donates so it is not the money but I am starting to get worried that prices will put off some customers.

My main worry is that a high automatic charge will hurt Silk Road by discouraging purchases or convincing  people buy outside of escrow or make competing  sites more attractive.

I love Silk Road but I want to get them money without hurting the site. What about supporter icons, your profile has an option where you can have a % that automatically gets donated from your offerings or purchases.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: phubaiblues on July 18, 2011, 03:54 pm
Most complaining I've see *offsite* about SR is the price of drugs.  A lot of people say it's not worth the cost, that some sellers double the street price.  Whether the fees affect this, or just plain old greed, I'm not sure, but the problem in one area--opiates--is a lack of sellers of the hardcore opiates: dilaudids, consistent heroin.  I think a 5 per cent fee is fair, because SR provides a *whole* lot, and I don't think it's that fee that is causing problems...
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: chronicpain on July 18, 2011, 04:30 pm
i'm a tad confused. Does SR add them to the vendors posting cost? Who pays the 5 percent?. the vendor or the buyer? (I realize that the buyer really does, but if I put up something for 5 bucks will it stay 5 bucks or will it be 5.30 or so?)
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Kind Bud on July 18, 2011, 05:43 pm
It is added as escrow fee that buyers pay. Most sellers don't even know it is there unless they check out their own listings while not signed in. There are recent reports that it may be 6.2% or 6.4%

GreenCo charges between $50-$60 USD per 1/8 Oz (3.5g) depending on strain.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: deletedme on July 18, 2011, 08:54 pm
if I put up something for 5 bucks will it stay 5 bucks or will it be 5.30 or so?

it'll be 5.31.

Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: 3Jane on July 19, 2011, 02:07 am
The fee is 6.23% last time I checked.

I personally don't mind at all, if it means SR doesn't have to work a day job and can instead focus on security and feature improvements then it's money well spent. I can see how it would be a bit much for vendors moving products with lower margins (like weed) however. My only complaint is that it's not listed anywhere as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: happytree on July 19, 2011, 03:21 am
I also agree it should be something that BUYERS are also aware of (in addition to sellers). I suggest this, because this might make make a transaction more understandable where we ARE paying twice street price. For example, my seller just told me today the margin she/he receives after SR. I was pretty surprised and it explained why she/he charges what she/he does.

I mean, is the fee pretty high? Sure. But compared to what? Alleviating the danger of buying drugs off the street, government interference, potential arrest, getting ripped off, etc. I mean, Ebay is a complete rip-off but people still sell their shit there, and make a living.

I'm glad to support someone's living on SR if it means I'm not giving the government any money in return.

Just make it known to buyers and sellers. Clearly. Don't let us find out on our own. Seems shady.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: phubaiblues on July 19, 2011, 03:46 am
I don't know if I much care.  It *is* a shady business, and I'm damn sure glad it's here.  I know a profit is made, and that's good, same as any illegal endeavor,  I got to pay to play, and as was pointed out, it's easier than trotting down in some Newark neighborhood with some really bad boys and bad cops and all of'em knowing I damn sure don't belong there.

But this wasn't some kind of altruistic 'lets all get together and change the world' program.  SR got this site rolling so he could make a buck, and protect us from ripoffs, and protect the sellers from snitches on the buyer side.  Well done.   That's good enough for me.  Door swings both ways, I don't like it I can leave, but I never got the impression I had any rights other than what has already been spelled out...this is a good thread however, as I'm realizing some do want to know...probably a faq page or something would be handy...I've read the buyers and sellers guides and everything else has been word of mouth...
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: chronicpain on July 19, 2011, 05:29 am
I also agree it should be something that BUYERS are also aware of (in addition to sellers). I suggest this, because this might make make a transaction more understandable where we ARE paying twice street price. For example, my seller just told me today the margin she/he receives after SR. I was pretty surprised and it explained why she/he charges what she/he does.

I mean, is the fee pretty high? Sure. But compared to what? Alleviating the danger of buying drugs off the street, government interference, potential arrest, getting ripped off, etc. I mean, Ebay is a complete rip-off but people still sell their shit there, and make a living.

I'm glad to support someone's living on SR if it means I'm not giving the government any money in return.

Just make it known to buyers and sellers. Clearly. Don't let us find out on our own. Seems shady.


I've posted this somewhere else, but I figure that I have to charge about 35 percent more (at least) to break even compared to a  F2F sale. Shipping costs, BTC costs, etc. It adds up quickly.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Kind Bud on July 19, 2011, 03:15 pm
good, secure shipping costs between $5-$10 per package at minimum. 
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Rook on July 20, 2011, 10:17 am
good, secure shipping costs between $5-$10 per package at minimum.

Exactly, plus labor!
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: MagicKillerMan on July 22, 2011, 06:03 am
I can understand why SilkRoad would charge a fee but I think they should lower it to 3% if possible. The main reason being that I and many other here on SilkRoad have to pay royalties to acquire bitcoins initially. Right now we are looking a net tax of over 10%. Also Bitcoins are not exactly a stable currency yet, and just recently as many of us know our anonymous coins' exchange rate took costly dive. But if it is as 3Jane says, I would rather SilkRoad charge a higher rate. Finally, out of all fairness SilkRoad needs to display their taxation rate on the front page.

-Magic

Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: joeblow2 on July 22, 2011, 06:55 am
The most important thing, I think, is A. that the standard fee added to each sale be explained in the buyer and seller's guides.  Not any discounted or otherwise lowered fee.  Just the basic one.  B. SR, or us as a community, get a FAQ up *quick* about the basics of buying online so we don't end up with a zillion threads on this forum about all that. 

Anyone who was on the old SR 1.0 forum knows how many BTC, Dwolla, Mt. Gox, Tor, etc etc etc threads ended up there.  It's so unnecessary with this "simple machines" format.

And the rest of it really isn't any concern of ours, as buyers.  SR is still in the experimental phase.  As volume grows and some sellers end up being outstanding, it is only natural (and good business) that SR will work out discounted sales programs for them.  Those details should never be public because no need to tell the world about vendor volume, SR's volume, whatever.

One thing I do think needs changed pretty quick: showing the transaction numbers on the higher volume sellers accounts.  Once a seller hits maybe 100 transactions, it could just say "over 100 transactions, here are the 20 most recent" and show the recent feedback.  It wouldn't be good to have someone on there showing 5,280 transactions in a 3 month time period, would it? ;)  As a seller I'd want that stuff, including all deleted messages and other transaction details, deleted as soon as it was determined that the sale had no problems.  The quicker the better.

Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: frogstar on July 22, 2011, 03:23 pm
I did not notice the fee.. is it only for escrow users or for all sellers?


Quote
I've posted this somewhere else, but I figure that I have to charge about 35 percent more (at least) to break even compared to a  F2F sale. Shipping costs, BTC costs, etc. It adds up quickly.

yeah it is hard to do this and make anywhere near the profit of a face to face. especially for cannabis. and if you want to launder your coins as well..... grief.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: ClayG on July 23, 2011, 04:53 am
I think that as long as no one gets ripped off either from getting their coins jacked or scammed the fees are fair if they are disclosed ahead of time.

Yeah the prices are high here.  But remember that buyers here don't always favor price, they favor security and everything else offered.

50-60 huh....  I'll peep you at some point.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Getliquid on July 24, 2011, 02:10 am
Ebay charges 12%.  Use this calc, http://www.newlifeauctions.com/calc.html     Buy it now, $100 price catagory "other" everything else blank and it comes up with 12.2% with paypal and ebay's fees together.

Obviously the lower the fees the lower the prices so as a buyer I'm all for that. But I can't tell you how happy I am that I found this place and how much I value the service as a buyer, where I live now a lot of my favorites are next to impossible to find here.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: b0ng on July 24, 2011, 03:02 pm
Worth it in my opinion especially if you use escrow.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on July 25, 2011, 05:17 am
I do believe SR should be more up front about the fees involved. So far I am happy with the pricing. I have even donated a few BTC to SR. I want this place to flourish and prosper. A profit must be earned. I get it and support the cause. I am NOT going to complain about it. I strive for excellence and so does SR. Excellence isn't free. SR is EXCELLENT!!!

I have seen many new improvements and am looking forward to new ones. KEEP IT SIMPLE. There are a few great ideas here in this thread. The future looks good. I am glad to be a part of it.

Two more things:
                          I want to be ranked number one. :)
                          I do not want the whole community to know my number. :)
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: nef on July 26, 2011, 10:39 pm
SR is optimized for security and privacy, not price.  It's easy to forget that SR is an amazing custom Onion site for new cryptocurrency, with escrow, seller rating system, messaging, order hedging, and well-moderated forum for all kinds of discussions.  And those are just the visible parts: as the highest-profile onion site, I'm sure SR has been hardened against hacking & tor-specific attacks, custom internal auditing to catch & resolve any weirdness,  external network monitoring, etc.

To me, buying via SR for what I can't find f2f is well worth a 50% premium over street prices, and a 6% cut for SR is not a big deal.  I do agree that the % cut should be made clear in the fine print somewhere, though.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: smodcastle on July 27, 2011, 06:21 am
To me, buying via SR for what I can't find f2f is well worth a 50% premium over street prices, and a 6% cut for SR is not a big deal.

Agreed a thousand times over. The convenience of this system is fucking MIND-blowing. Of course we Americans feel so fucking entitled for every little thing, but seriously, Silk Road is the god damn FUTURE bitch!  8) If Silk Road was a dick, I would suck it for all of the carnal desires it has placed at my fingertips. Silk Road for president!   ;) ~smod
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 27, 2011, 07:16 am
added to the seller's guide:

"...when pricing your items, be sure to include shipping and handling in the price.  Whatever you set your price at will be your total compensation.  However, your listings will display a price that is higher than the one you set because we add a commission to each listing.  The commission is subject to change, but at the time of this writing it is 6.23%."

Sorry for the opacity.  I'd like to share with you how I view money, so you can get a better idea of what to expect in regards to the management of Silk Road going forward.

Money is a tool, a means to an end.  Our end here at Silk Road is not the accumulation of money, or the comfort and security it brings (not that there's anything wrong with that).  Our end is freedom from tyranny, and secured basic human rights for the people of the world.  As awesome as it is, Silk Road is just the beginning in what will likely be a long journey.  You can count on us to use the wealth created by it responsibly to produce ever more infrastructure and resources toward achieving these goals.  In the end, it won't be about the money, it'll be about what we've all achieved by thinking and acting for ourselves and refusing to compromise.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: joeblow2 on July 27, 2011, 08:17 am
added to the seller's guide:

"...when pricing your items, be sure to include shipping and handling in the price.  Whatever you set your price at will be your total compensation.  However, your listings will display a price that is higher than the one you set because we add a commission to each listing.  The commission is subject to change, but at the time of this writing it is 6.23%."

Sorry for the opacity.  I'd like to share with you how I view money, so you can get a better idea of what to expect in regards to the management of Silk Road going forward.

Money is a tool, a means to an end.  Our end here at Silk Road is not the accumulation of money, or the comfort and security it brings (not that there's anything wrong with that).  Our end is freedom from tyranny, and secured basic human rights for the people of the world.  As awesome as it is, Silk Road is just the beginning in what will likely be a long journey.  You can count on us to use the wealth created by it responsibly to produce ever more infrastructure and resources toward achieving these goals.  In the end, it won't be about the money, it'll be about what we've all achieved by thinking and acting for ourselves and refusing to compromise.

Would this mean then that as the volume grows exponentially that there is a good chance that the fees will slide downward; both because of volume and the fact that there will be somewhat less to do in the way of major updates of the board because it will become both highly efficient and more bulletproof over time with each new iteration?  Based on your philosophy of money (the tool part is the same as my own, however I do *love* the creature comforts that come from having it) I would be very interested to hear your answer, even if it is just in a philosophical bent rather than any estimation or indication of future fee structures.  thanks!
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: joeblow2 on July 27, 2011, 08:20 am
To me, buying via SR for what I can't find f2f is well worth a 50% premium over street prices, and a 6% cut for SR is not a big deal.

Agreed a thousand times over. The convenience of this system is fucking MIND-blowing. Of course we Americans feel so fucking entitled for every little thing, but seriously, Silk Road is the god damn FUTURE bitch!  8) If Silk Road was a dick, I would suck it for all of the carnal desires it has placed at my fingertips. Silk Road for president!   ;) ~smod

I'm buying what you're selling Smod!  When I first came to SR I thought "ok, another drug forum online.  Been there, done that.  A little more organized but still going to be the same old, same old, and with all the related headaches and frustrations.  BUT...as SR has become SR 2.0 it's been amazing to watch and participate in and it truly does have the feel of something that is going to be part of (if not leading) a revolution of some sort.  Plus the awesome sense of community that develops so quickly here; usually based around a group of people who have an undying interest in the same class of drugs. hehe.

The admin of OVDB is an excellent functionary and he keeps the place very clean and civil but there is none of the activist mentality or the striving (on a very short timeline) to constantly improve the level of service the board provides in interesting and innovative ways.

One of the keenest differences is the philosophy towards money so eloquently put forward by SR.  Contrast that to the avarice and incivility that not only breeds but is fostered by the owners/mods on most boards.  So far, SR appears to be the antithesis of an Alex Marlin. 

And that can't be anything but a GOOD thing!  8)

It almost gives an old guy like me a reason to dream again...
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: nomad bloodbath on July 27, 2011, 10:44 am
To me, buying via SR for what I can't find f2f is well worth a 50% premium over street prices, and a 6% cut for SR is not a big deal.

Agreed a thousand times over. The convenience of this system is fucking MIND-blowing. Of course we Americans feel so fucking entitled for every little thing, but seriously, Silk Road is the god damn FUTURE bitch!  8) If Silk Road was a dick, I would suck it for all of the carnal desires it has placed at my fingertips. Silk Road for president!   ;) ~smod

I'm buying what you're selling Smod!  When I first came to SR I thought "ok, another drug forum online.  Been there, done that.  A little more organized but still going to be the same old, same old, and with all the related headaches and frustrations.  BUT...as SR has become SR 2.0 it's been amazing to watch and participate in and it truly does have the feel of something that is going to be part of (if not leading) a revolution of some sort.  Plus the awesome sense of community that develops so quickly here; usually based around a group of people who have an undying interest in the same class of drugs. hehe.

The admin of OVDB is an excellent functionary and he keeps the place very clean and civil but there is none of the activist mentality or the striving (on a very short timeline) to constantly improve the level of service the board provides in interesting and innovative ways.

One of the keenest differences is the philosophy towards money so eloquently put forward by SR.  Contrast that to the avarice and incivility that not only breeds but is fostered by the owners/mods on most boards.  So far, SR appears to be the antithesis of an Alex Marlin. 

And that can't be anything but a GOOD thing!  8)

It almost gives an old guy like me a reason to dream again...

:'( :'( :'( ...hehehe good stuff guys.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 27, 2011, 09:34 pm
Would this mean then that as the volume grows exponentially that there is a good chance that the fees will slide downward; both because of volume and the fact that there will be somewhat less to do in the way of major updates of the board because it will become both highly efficient and more bulletproof over time with each new iteration?  Based on your philosophy of money (the tool part is the same as my own, however I do *love* the creature comforts that come from having it) I would be very interested to hear your answer, even if it is just in a philosophical bent rather than any estimation or indication of future fee structures.  thanks!

Not necessarily.  Basically what I'm saying is, MUCH more is possible than just being able to buy drugs freely.  With the revenues from Silk Road (the more the better), we can invest in even more ambitious and revolutionary projects.  Money is a tool, but so is Silk Road.  Our aim is to one day live in a world where we won't need Silk Road, because we won't need to hide anymore.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: bp on July 28, 2011, 03:22 am
Would this mean then that as the volume grows exponentially that there is a good chance that the fees will slide downward; both because of volume and the fact that there will be somewhat less to do in the way of major updates of the board because it will become both highly efficient and more bulletproof over time with each new iteration?  Based on your philosophy of money (the tool part is the same as my own, however I do *love* the creature comforts that come from having it) I would be very interested to hear your answer, even if it is just in a philosophical bent rather than any estimation or indication of future fee structures.  thanks!

Not necessarily.  Basically what I'm saying is, MUCH more is possible than just being able to buy drugs freely.  With the revenues from Silk Road (the more the better), we can invest in even more ambitious and revolutionary projects.  Money is a tool, but so is Silk Road.  Our aim is to one day live in a world where we won't need Silk Road, because we won't need to hide anymore.

Amen brother. Agorism and counter-economics (thank you Sam Konkin) is the only way to starve the beast, like you kill any hard to kill beast-----you cut off it's lifeline. Namely the central banking system and the forced down our throats currency we MUST accept by law......anywhere but here.

The BTC is still way too connected (and dependent) on the phony baloney US$ thought (AAA credit rating....ROTFL) because that's still what we all convert to (well not all) and do math to convert BTC to while shopping.
Oh, did I go off topic?
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: DigitalAlch on July 28, 2011, 06:43 pm
SR takes the most risk running this site - a transaction fee is such a small thing compared to that. Just be glad you guys can all now get damn near any chem almost anywhere in the world.  That's what I call (r)evolution.

Peace,
DigitalAlch
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: MagicKillerMan on July 29, 2011, 04:08 am
I can understand why SilkRoad would charge a fee but I think they should lower it to 3% if possible. The main reason being that I and many other here on SilkRoad have to pay royalties to acquire bitcoins initially. Right now we are looking a net tax of over 10%. Also Bitcoins are not exactly a stable currency yet, and just recently as many of us know our anonymous coins' exchange rate took costly dive. But if it is as 3Jane says, I would rather SilkRoad charge a higher rate. Finally, out of all fairness SilkRoad needs to display their taxation rate on the front page.

-Magic
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: MagicKillerMan on July 29, 2011, 04:19 am

Not necessarily.  Basically what I'm saying is, MUCH more is possible than just being able to buy drugs freely.  With the revenues from Silk Road (the more the better), we can invest in even more ambitious and revolutionary projects.  Money is a tool, but so is Silk Road.  Our aim is to one day live in a world where we won't need Silk Road, because we won't need to hide anymore.
[/quote]

Silk road

Are talking about supporting forums like this one?

http://g7pz322wcy6jnn4r.onion/opensource/ovdb/ac/index.php

And also do you know of this forum or have any part in its construction?

I think a friend of a friend of mine, (don't know who he is really everything is anonymous) helped build it.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: MrBaba on August 01, 2011, 05:17 am
I'm happy to support this place with a fee, let's just hope it's not going to hit ridiculous percentage, since the prices are already way too high, in some cases.

Long life SR.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: lobsterhead on August 05, 2011, 10:15 am
Fair enough to charge a fee, no complaints from me.  But, it did dampen my excitement at finding this this place when I saw the prices.  The trouble is I'm usually pretty broke so price is definitely an issue for me, not that it will stop me buying, I've just got to be pretty selective. It's a case of buying what I can afford rather than what I'd really like. In the UK finding weed is getting stupidly hard so this place is a godsend.
Of course just to piss me off, after I bought bitcoins their value took a nosedive! So there's even more lovely looking stuff that I can't afford!

Btw, need more UK sellers cos if I run out again I'm going to kill something cuddly.

Keep up the good work SR, it's much appreciated.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: Fred Flintstone on August 05, 2011, 04:19 pm

Not necessarily.  Basically what I'm saying is, MUCH more is possible than just being able to buy drugs freely.  With the revenues from Silk Road (the more the better), we can invest in even more ambitious and revolutionary projects.  Money is a tool, but so is Silk Road.  Our aim is to one day live in a world where we won't need Silk Road, because we won't need to hide anymore.

Yeah keep dreaming, that will happen the day monkeys fly out of my butt. All this talk of revolution reads like a "workers party" pamphlet. I agree with what you are saying but on a realistic note: do you actually believe revenues from the Silk Road are going to cause a revolution and thus allow the legal sale of drugs? I feel like so many of these SR forum threads get bogged down with extremist libertarian rhetoric.

The fact that SR is here and allowing people like us to purchase illegal items is amazing. This isn't ebay - SR is taking all kinds of felonious risks and deserves to be compensated. I could understand complaints about high fees if this was in the confines of the law. As has been said by many sellers, for this to be worth it they must charge high prices in order for the reward to be worth the risk.
Title: Re: SilkRoad Fees
Post by: uniwiz on August 05, 2011, 06:19 pm
Quote
The fact that SR is here and allowing people like us to purchase illegal items is amazing. This isn't ebay - SR is taking all kinds of felonious risks and deserves to be compensated. I could understand complaints about high fees if this was in the confines of the law. As has been said by many sellers, for this to be worth it they must charge high prices in order for the reward to be worth the risk.

+1