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Messages - Dread Pirate Roberts

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 46
196
looks like we had an unusual spike in withdrawals that kicked in an emergency shutoff.  Everything looks ok, though, so we should be flowing again shortly.

197
Silk Road discussion / Re: Deposits and withdrawals paused
« on: July 16, 2013, 07:02 pm »
Does that include finalizing? I've had over $1000 finalize and can't access those coins. If you could please stop finalizing so that I'm not stuck with coins at a certain price, I'd really appreciate it.

no, buyers can still finalize.  hopefully there won't be any major exchange rate fluctuations before we can get rolling again.

198
Silk Road discussion / Deposits and withdrawals paused
« on: July 16, 2013, 05:41 pm »
We are seeing an error in the deposit and withdrawal system.  I've paused all bitcoin related functions until we can figure out the problem.  Hopefully we'll have it running again in an hour or two.

199
Silk Road discussion / Re: How do I create sub accounts?
« on: July 15, 2013, 01:44 am »
you should have gotten a message if you are a vendor.  this is a vendor only feature.

200
Silk Road discussion / Re: Never mind.
« on: July 14, 2013, 02:26 am »
I posted once about it a while ago, but there in no official policy.  right now what we do is archive the data after 4 months.  archiving basically strips out all info except what is needed for the stats and keeps the database lean.  I removed the "all-time" column after reading this thread to avoid further issues.  It's kind of unimportant for judging a buyer and I think it is nicer on the eyes/mind to have 3 instead of 4 data points to look at anyway.

201
God dammit! I was sooooo close to booting up my VM and getting the shipping addresses for my orders.

I was like 15 seconds off from pulling up the order tab.

 :(

I'll get us back asap

202
Silk Road discussion / the site will soon be down for an update
« on: July 13, 2013, 08:16 pm »
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there will be no visible changes after this update, just some housekeeping and rearranging things for future updates.  Shouldn't be down for more than an hour or so.

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203
Silk Road discussion / Re: commission stuff
« on: July 12, 2013, 08:35 pm »
There has been a lot of arguing about what you pay in commission since the formula was changed, so for clarity transparency here is what you're paying in commission including a comparison. Before you say this is wrong, please verify your calculations. These number have been independently calculated by another user.


                                 Commission calculations   

Atlantis                                           Old Silk Road                                New Silk Road
6% of the first $50                         10% of the first $50                     4%+6.7*exp(-p/6)
5.5% of $50 - 150                          8.5% of $50 - 150
5% of $150 - 300                           6% of $150 - 300   
2% of $300 - 500                           3% of $300 - 500   
1.5% of $500 - 1000                      2% of $500 - 1000   
1% for everything over $1000       1.5% for everything over $1000   


Pre-Commission   Atlantis          Old SR             New SR                 Old SR % increase   New SR % comm.
List Price              Commission    Commission     Commission          over Atlantis Price    over Atlantis price
$5                       $0.30              $0.50              $3.11                    40%                         937%
$10                     $0.60              $1.00              $1.67                    40%                         178%
$20                     $1.20              $2.00              $1.04                    40%                         -13%
$50                     $3.00              $5.00              $2.00                    40%                         -33%
$100                   $5.75              $9.25              $4.00                    38%                         -30%
$200                   $11.00            $16.50            $8.00                    33%                         -27%
$500                   $20.00            $28.50            $20.00                  30%                         0%
$1,000                $27.50            $38.50            $40.00                  29%                         45%
$2,000                $37.50            $53.50            $80.00                  30%                         113%
$5,000                $67.50            $98.50            $200.00                31%                         196%
$10,000              $117.50          $173.50           $400.00               32%                         240%
$20,000              $217.50          $323.50           $800.00               33%                         268%
$50,000              $517.50          $773.50           $2,000.00            33%                         286%

This is inaccurate.  The commission on a $5 listing is most definitely not $3.11, it's more like $0.53 and I'm pretty sure several of those other #s are way off as well.  Stop posting things you haven't verified and understood yourself, and stop believing things you haven't verified or understood.

Gold, we should talk.  People selling btc for fiat are charged 0% because they cannot use the escrow.  and people doing the opposite should be treated as exchangers as well.  I agree that the margins on money exchanges are much too tight to be treated the same way.  I'll send you a message.

204
Silk Road discussion / New moderator cirrus
« on: July 11, 2013, 11:38 pm »
We have a new full-time moderator, cirrus.  I am confident that he will do his job well and be an asset to us.  He is here to serve the community and help you in any way, so don't be shy.

205
Silk Road discussion / Re: commission stuff
« on: July 10, 2013, 11:27 pm »
Putting all this "how much did the rates go up/down" bickering aside, I do have to say that a commission rate that fluctuates depending on the price of bitcoins seems very strange to me.  Like it or not, Bitcoins as a currency are way too volatile to post your listing based on BTC value.  The vast majority of vendors peg it to USD, for good reason.

As I understand it, with this new system if BTC swings wildly, so does the USD-based commission rate.  That's not good design.

I'm open to correction if my interpretation of this formula is incorrect.

You are correct that, were that formula to remain exactly as it is, the commission on a USD scale would change with the exchange rate.  That's why it will be updated from time to time to adjust for any major swings in the exchange rate.  It is a great design on the backend making the code much simpler and reducing load on the system.

206
Silk Road discussion / Re: commission stuff
« on: July 10, 2013, 07:19 pm »
To give a little more perspective, at the current exchange rate of $75 per btc, a $1000 item under the former schedule now costs $1007.26.  A $2000 item now costs $2028.07.  And as said before, lower priced items are virtually unchanged. 

And a $2,500 item costs $2,600.80.  It more than doubled.  That is exactly why I noticed this so soon.  It's okay.  My customers will eat those extra fees because I sure wont. :)

Thank you for giving us the formula and letting us know how the fees currently work.

I really don't have time to be correcting everyone's arithmetic, but I feel the need to nip this in the bud and point out how bad math and bad comparisons can lead people astray.  I provided 2 data points, which you quoted, demonstrating the effect of the change in commission.  Then you added a 3rd data point showing the total commission instead of the change, which is misleading, and then said "it" more than doubled, which is ambiguous.  If "it" is referring to the commission, then this is not just misleading, but incorrect.

A $2500 item before the change is now $2539.80.

My math is spot on DPR.  You're just wording this bad.  When you say a $2500 item, you are clearly working the previous fees into the price and I was not. ;)  I was clearly talking about a $2,500 item BEFORE any fees.  You were talking about a $2,500 item after previous fees which is really a $2,4XX item.  A $2500 item (before any fees) now costs $2600.80 after fees.  Last week a $2,500 item (before fees) would cost $255X after fees.  So fees did double for $2,500 items.  I'm okay with that though.  As I said, it's not coming out of my pocket, but I don't appreciate you saying that I am wrong about it.

It's all gravy Robbie.  Just keep this ship sailing smoothly.

sorry jack, but you quoted my wording, so it was your responsibility to clarify if you were changing what was being stated.  Also, before the update, the total commission on $2500 was $61, now it is $100.  That is not more than double as you said.  It's not all gravy.  I'm tired of this.  I'm more than open to criticism and correction, but I won't ignore you when you tell people I am wrong when I'm not.  It's not cool to spread lies and rumors.  Amazingly, people base their opinion on random bs they read online.  I shouldn't have to defend myself from the very people I'm serving.  As you say, I should be keeping the ship sailing smoothly, but apparently defending my integrity can be added to the ever growing list of responsibilities I have.

Hey Cimicon-Rep, thanks for correcting people here and there as well.

207
Silk Road discussion / Re: commission stuff
« on: July 10, 2013, 06:38 pm »
Anything above $300 is going to have an increase in price of $20 and up... Kind of back handed to say "Lower priced items will remain virtually unchanged" when everything is changing in price to a degree proportionate to its price.

Lower priced items are not unchanged. Everything is changed.

Hey doomsday, never seen you before, nice to meet you.  I would appreciate you not calling me a liar.  Every word of my post is true.  If you are going to call someone out for lying on this forum I would appreciate you do your due diligence and confirm that indeed they have lied.  I guess we need yet another data point before some of you will start believing me.

A $300 listing before the update now costs $300.19.  I think we can all agree that an extra 19 cents constitutes "virtually unchanged".  One more data point and then I'm done.  A $150 listing before the update now costs $149.70.  That's right, the commission went DOWN in some places!  Most transactions on SR are in the $100 - $200 range anyway.

I'm not sure at what point I went from being trusted implicitly to not only being mistrusted, but having lies spread about me and my actions.  Silk Road has been a bastion for integrity in the black market since it began and you can be sure that so long as I am at its helm it will remain that way.  I don't expect you to trust me blindly, but given the track record I do think I deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.

208
Silk Road discussion / Re: commission stuff
« on: July 10, 2013, 11:07 am »
To give a little more perspective, at the current exchange rate of $75 per btc, a $1000 item under the former schedule now costs $1007.26.  A $2000 item now costs $2028.07.  And as said before, lower priced items are virtually unchanged. 

And a $2,500 item costs $2,600.80.  It more than doubled.  That is exactly why I noticed this so soon.  It's okay/  My customers will eat those extra fees because I sure wont. :)

Thank you for giving us the formula and letting us know how the fees currently work.

I really don't have time to be correcting everyone's arithmetic, but I feel the need to nip this in the bud and point out how bad math and bad comparisons can lead people astray.  I provided 2 data points, which you quoted, demonstrating the effect of the change in commission.  Then you added a 3rd data point showing the total commission instead of the change, which is misleading, and then said "it" more than doubled, which is ambiguous.  If "it" is referring to the commission, then this is not just misleading, but incorrect.

A $2500 item before the change is now $2539.80.

209
Silk Road discussion / commission stuff
« on: July 10, 2013, 07:50 am »
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Hi everyone,

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the commission that is charged to vendors on Silk Road and I'd like to do my best to put some misunderstandings to rest.  Many things were changed in a recent update to accommodate displaying and pegging prices to many currencies.  One of those changes was the way the commission is calculated.  This change had virtually no effect on the vast majority of sales on Silk Road that occur in the less than $1000 range.  The commission did rise on larger volume orders.  I've always felt that the 2% or so that was being charged on high priced orders was kind of low and decided to make the minimum commission 4%.  I intended to inform our vendors of this through a message, but for some reason the message did not go through.  I don't know if this was human error, or a technical error of some kind, but despite what some of you might think I am a normal human being and capable of error.  In any case, the warning of the commission change did not make it to the vendors, so when they realized the commission had been raised by about two percentage points on high priced orders without warning, they we're rightfully upset.

However, this soon spiraled out of control with people making unfounded claims that the commission had doubled or tripled across the board, causing further outrage.  I attempted to respond within the thread where this was being discussed, but multiple threads have been started now and the misconception has even spread to other websites.  Hopefully this post will put the matter to rest.

As I've said all along, the commission that is charged is subject to change at any time, but because it is such a hot topic I am more than happy to reveal the commission schedule as it stands at this very moment.  Keep in mind, this is subject to change at any time, and vendors have been equipped to handle changes in the commission without being warned ahead of time.

The percent commission charged at this point can be found with the following formula:

6.7 x e^(-p/6) + 4

where p is the price of the listing in Bitcoins.  So, for example, a 10 btc listing has a total commission of 5.27%, or 0.5265 btc.

To give a little more perspective, at the current exchange rate of $75 per btc, a $1000 item under the former schedule now costs $1007.26.  A $2000 item now costs $2028.07.  And as said before, lower priced items are virtually unchanged.  I think we can all agree that the service being provided by Silk Road to bring together a multitude of buyers and sellers and provide a safe platform for multi-thousand dollar deals is more than worth an extra 28 bucks.

That being said, I take full responsibility for any and all misunderstandings up to this point.  I didn't deliver the forewarning as I had intended and I am sure none of this would have been necessary had my message been delivered.  I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time with all of this and I hope you can forgive me this slip up.

Yours always,
Dread Pirate Roberts

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210


Apparently the message I sent out to vendors did not go through.  It explained the effect of the new currency pegging system to them, as well as how to set their accounts so that the change in commission would affect their prices in the way they wanted.  I apologize that it did not through.  Next time I send a message to all of the vendors, I'll double check.


How about posting this vendor message or sending it again so there is no confusion. If this was indeed a simple mistake, it can just as easily be rectified. Just send out the new fee structure memo like you said you've done and it will put this whole thing to rest.

Everything I said in the original message, which I guess some of you didn't receive, has already been said now.  I'm not publishing the entire commission algorithm because it is subject to change at any time, and I don't need to update everyone every time an adjustment is made.  Buyers, simply look at the final prices in the market and decide whether a purchase is worth it or not, the costs that make up that price, including commission, are not laid out, just like in the grocery store or any retail outlet.  Sellers, I've given you all of the tools you need to see exactly how much commission is being charged on your individual listings and how you want your prices to behave when adjustments are made to the commission.

That's the whole story folks.  As some have pointed out, the commission that is charged is way lower than what I could get away with.  I keep it low because we bring in enough at low levels to keep things going and growing.  I can't tell you how many times vendors have come to me thanking me for helping them turn their lives around and making them and their families rich.  You think I couldn't have squeezed that profit over to my side if I wanted to?  Of course I could have, but I didn't.

Not sure what else to say except that I'm a normal person just like you.  I got messages from maybe a couple of you asking about this and then found this whole ridiculous outcry on the forum.  I read and answer almost all of my mail, yet more than one of you are here making unfounded claims, complaining, insulting and even accusing me of nasty things without messaging me first, or waiting for my reply.

I'm getting back to work now.  Hopefully this post has provided a bit of perspective rather than stirring up more animosity.

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