Silk Road forums

Quote from: astor on August 09, 2013, 01:19 am

This decision creates incentive for people to be honest when they have compromised the security of their customers. Then at least buyers can be aware of the threat they have been exposed to. The alternative is to swing hammers and then no one will ever admit when they fucked up.

Nonsense!

Firstly, BG didn't compromise the security of his customers just recently.  He's been doing it since his first sale by keeping records, and committing that same sin with each subsequent sale.  He's only recently disclosed how he's been compromising the security of his customers the entire time he's been vending.

Secondly, DPR's decision doesn't create any incentive for vendors to come clean.  His account was taken away but he's free to come back.  How is that different from a vendor who gets caught scamming and comes back under a different guise?  The only difference is that BG is leaving but given explicit approval to come back.  What incentive is that to come clean, really, when the net effect is the same?

Thirdly, you need to understand, precisely,  why BG came clean and why that should have no bearing about providing incentives for disclosure for vendors that fuck up.

BG came clean because he's, without a doubt, a fucking really decent person!!!  He's a horrible vendor but a really decent person.  He put his customers in danger and he came here to try to mitigate the damage he might have caused by alerting them to the danger.  The courage to make that disclosure comes from a person who has a fucking conscience and integrity, and that's why he's been so contrite and genuinely willing to "walk the plank."  Vendors will disclose if they have a conscience and courage, not SR incentives. 

Lastly, I haven't been writing to protest BG's punishment but DPR's sentiments regarding it.

How comfortable would you be right now if your name and address were on that spreadsheet?  Would you have any idea how long you would have to wait before you find out if there are to be consequences of the spreadsheet?  What about users who rarely frequent the forums or the market and are totally oblivious to the fact that their information may be in the hands of the feds?  What if some of his customers have criminal liabilities and this would land them back in prison?  Where do I stop?

So if you were one of those people, and you're here reading what, in effect, was DPR patting BG on the back and you, Astor, rationalizing his decision as the right thing to do for potential future indiscretions, I think it would be reasonable to think that DPR, you and others have lost sight of what actually just happened.  That the screw up that has affected you, right here, right now, is being used to benefit some potential future victim(s).  In what fucking world does that make sense?

DPR should have come down HARD on BG, like Old Testament Yahweh hard, for breaking his primary duty and responsibility to his customers.  And he should have left it to those people, whose trust he betrayed, to forgive him and embrace him back into the community under another vendor account.  It's not his place to 'forgive' by sending him on his way with a pat on his back when it wasn't him that was potentially affected in such a fucked up way.

And to same2butdifferent,

"I would rather have a contrite BlueGiraffe return than a sneaky scammer/rule breaker trying to fly under the radar and reinvent themselves only to pull another scam/fuck up further down the track."

I think if you asked those people whose personal information is floating around in a spreadsheet right now, I think they'd disagree; I think they'd rather have had been scammed out of hundreds or even thousands of dollars than have what's happening to them right now.

And for the last time, it is not your place to forgive when you were not the one harmed.  That's beyond arrogant and incredibly inconsiderate to the victims of this mess.

To BG, you should understand that I'm not calling for your head, and I believe that your disclosure speaks volumes as to your character and integrity.  I'm more railing against the people here who've been thoughtlessly commenting on this situation.  Unfortunately, they're losing sight of who the victims are, and it's those people's forgiveness, I hope, provides any measure of peace.

Honestly you might be right.  I did to BG exactly what I would have done to someone who was caught trying to get away with the same act, except I gave my opinion on the matter.  I don't think we have only two types of vendors, honest and dishonest, and that their decisions are independent of precedent.  If another vendor is faced with a similar situation and sees that BG was treated fairly and even praised for the honorable part of his behavior, then they too might follow his example and come clean.  If that's the case, then my forgiving rhetoric will help keep people safe.  Like I said in the OP, it wasn't an easy decision and it's hard to know the best path to take, but at some point you just have to act, learn as much as you can for the next tough decision, and eventually move on.

I've had to make many hard decisions in my time as DPR, and this is one of the hardest.

A few days ago, the vendor known as BlueGiraffe (BG) came to me and confessed that he had been saving the addresses of his customers.  He said he did this for convenience when reships were in order.  As is always the danger when data is retained, the data was leaked when the list of addresses was sent in clear text over tormail (edit: the addresses were sent with weak encryption, not in the clear).  We are now fairly certain that tormail has been compromised and BG has done the right thing and warned all of his customers of the data leak.

On the one hand, BG committed a cardinal sin as a vendor that has always led to loss of vending privileges in the past.  However, it was not done in malice and he did his best to minimize the damage as soon as he knew what happened.  He put his customers ahead of himself in the end, and did so admirably.  Part of his behavior must be punished, and the other part should not be and should even be encouraged.

I've decided to take the following action:  The BlueGiraffe vendor account will stay demoted.  It's official record and reputation will end.  However, within the community, BG's good actions will not be forgotten and he will be allowed and even encouraged to open a new vendor account and continue serving the Silk Road community.  I think we can all see how sincerely sorry he is for what he did and trust him never to breach his vendor contract again.  I encourage his customers to give him a second chance and buy from whatever new account he sets up to help him get back to good standing as a top vendor on SR.

BG has set an excellent example of what to do and what not to do and I thank him for his contribution.  I have no doubt that his reputation will quickly be restored and that his loss of business as he starts over with a new account will be adequate punishment, but not too severe.

It would be nice to hear from BG regarding this decision and to hear what we can expect from him going forward along with the name of his new account if he chooses to set one up.

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Sorry for the unannounced down time there.  As usual, can't really talk about what happened, but it was nothing major and we're back up an running.

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Is freedom hosting any way connected to the Silkroad main page and these fourms?

absolutely not.  the only connection is that many SR users also used services hosted by FH, like tormail.

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With all of the news and rumor around freedom hosting being shut down, I thought it a good time to post a signed message here on the forums to show that I am still in control of Silk Road.

I have yet to receive any hard evidence regarding what happened with the FH bust.  At this point, Silk Road appears to be totally unaffected by it.  Of course if you registered on a compromised site with your Silk Road credentials, you should change your SR password and PIN asap.

As we watch this unfold, please contribute any new information to the existing threads on the subject and let's hope that the damage is well contained.

DPR
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Is there any information on how he was tracked down and arrested?

I made this board because I felt like it is an important area for just about everyone here.  I changed the name of the Philosophy, Economics and Law board to Philosophy, Economics and Justice to keep discussion there in the realm of theory and to split discussion of practical real-world tactics and strategies here.

Hope it helps.