Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: aciddeath on March 02, 2012, 01:48 am
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SR,
I know there are a few o-chem savvy members
Can anyone suggest a concise introduction to organic chemistry for a complete beginner? I have taken college level general chemistry so have a very limited chemistry background.
I have been looking at the local college textbooks for their respective organic chemistry 1 classes but figured someone who understands where I'm headed would have the best suggestion
I have Zubrick's lab survival manual
I believe I need way more theory and fundamentals of organic chemistry before I can put this to much use
Can anyone suggest a text? Or should I just run through the golden book of chemistry and try to not kill myself with chlorine gas >= )
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any college ochem text should do. you should really take classes though + labs. it will be worth your while. the real problem with trying to synthesize drugs though is sourcing materials.
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I figure I would take it one step at a time, worry about reagents and precursors when I get there (quite some time in the grand scheme of things I would imagine)
Ultimately taking the classes and labs (which are incredibly inexpensive in my current location) would probably be the best bet. I want to ensure I have a strong platform to build on
I just started reading "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie
It's such a concise volume on programming C I could only hope that there is something out there detailing the scientific principles of organic chemistry
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I've taken organic I and II and biochemistry I and am currently taking Organic III. In my opinion you can't learn organic out of a college book. For example a college book is not going to tell you a gridnard reaction has the potential to get so hot it can start a fire if mixed with ethanol. For experience like this you can only learn these things by experimenting in an organic lab. Books show you hypothetical mechanisms while labs teach you what to expect in real life.
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Walnutst! I agree completely. Just as well there is no substitute for a solid instructor and the daily regiments of learning that are required from college classes.
For anyone who is interested, MIT offers some killer free online classes (and not just in chem!)
The book for ochem I class is available on torrent/magnet (haven't parsed the pdf, so I have no idea if contains anything malicious but it seems to be running happily on a linux box)
I have been running through the mcmurray ochem book for some hours now.. Despite some questions that could only be answered by someone who knows what they're doing (*it's been a long time for me and chemistry), it's kind of funny being able to answer the quizzes at the end of the chapters (so far) mostly with success.
I just can't quite figure out how in a tetrahedral geometry diagram of a molecule you determine which bonds are "behind" and which bonds are "in front" by just using a chemical formula (for example CHCl3). The book asks you to show CHCL3's tetrahedral geometry using just the formula??
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First off free places ->
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/ - MIT Open Courses
http://www.khanacademy.org/ - Kahn Accademy
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/ - Wiley Online Library
Next Books (Look on Torrent sites) ->
Organic Chemistry (7th Edition) (Leroy G. Wade)
Chemistry The Molecular Science (Moore, Stanitski, Jurs)
General, Organic, Biological Chemistry (Janice Gorzynski Smith)
~Digi
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thanks DigitalAlch!
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There are 3 organic books worth having: Organic Chemistry by Clayden et al (OUP), March's Organic Chemistry (6th edition), and Advanced Organic Chemistry by Carey and Sunberg (book 1).
As for your question about CHCl3, there is a central carbon atom with the other 4 atoms distributed over the surface (109° angle between each) so that the substituents are as far apart from each other as possible.
To visualize molecules easily either download a copy of ChemDraw or buy a plastic molecular model kit. Both are also very useful for learning about ring strain, torsion angles, ring conformations, the anomeric effect, stereochemistry etc...
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thanks for the reply wowsers, I've got a list of books going and I will definitely add those to it
ChemDraw sounds cool, I'll see if I can get my hands on it
The entire learning process seems so daunting.. and I suppose rightfully so. People dedicate their entire lives to the study of organic chemistry. And then I think back to learning the OSI model and thinking about how daunting it felt to learn about networking.
It would seem that all mathematics and sciences are just many layers of abstraction put together over many years.
My greatest source of inspiration is imagining the chemists 50-60 years ago synthesizing all sorts of interesting compounds with half the technology/resources we have today. Completely awesome stuff.
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Khan academy will be good to get you back into chem, for some very basic o-chem. He goes as far as first-semester o-chem, so you're going to need more. Textbooks are also a good way to learn, but most are 1000+ pages so you don't get a feel for what's important and what's not.
As for practical o-chem, you need to do some lab work. Someone mentioned above that Gringard reactions get very hot (well what do you think would happen with those unstable compounds?) - but you won't truly understand it until you do it. Unless you enjoy reading gigantic reference tables of thermodynamics and kinetics for various compounds at different conditions. The CRC on crack.
If you just want to learn to synthesize meth or MDMA or whatever, don't bother learning so deeply (LSD is another story). Your biggest challenge will be to find the precursors.
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robotzombies, 10-4 all over that.
radium1911,
I haven't yet explored Khan Academy but I will get on it.
My interest is not entirely drug based. Since high school I have had a genuine interest in chemistry but never a motive to pursue it seriously until last year. It's only appropriate to branch off into the art of creating compounds after securing a full time 'professional' job :)
I'm not a speed head so I could not care less about meth manufacture (though I will admit it is interesting). Same goes for all the ultra potent synthetic opiates, mescaline, psilosin extract, wakefulness promoters, et al
MDMA synthesis looks moderately difficult and extremely fun.
Achieving LSD synthesis would be a pinnacle for me. Ever since I found out what LSD was, even before I dosed LSD I knew I wanted to make it. I want to ensure I am having LSD once and for all. No premade blotter, liquid, window panes, microdots, nothing.. just pure LSD crystal diluted by my hands.
I want to learn chemistry for the sake of learning chemistry. I don't want a career in chem and I don't want to get rich off chem. I don't want to spiral into a hard drug addiction because of my knowledge. I want to be a good chemist. I want to understand chemistry.
On the topic of LSD synthesis... why do so many people have such a hard time with it?
Is it really the precursors? the column chromatography? fractional distillation? I briefly read through Shulgin's TIHKAL entry on LSD and there's no indication of any watched substances (except ergo and diethylamine). Is this synthesis even factual? It seems like there's something missing??
The only reagents I could think would be hard to get are ergo tartrate and diethylamine, but any chemist worth his weight should be able to make diethylamine.
And with enough money, time, and luck you could certainly find a few ounces of ergotamine from SOMEONE and get it to your lab
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LSD is difficult to synthesize, even if a magical fairy dropped the precursors in your lap. But it's not nearly as impossible as people make it out to be, even with the 4 chiral centers.
It's much, much easier than synthesis of some complex molecules. Look up total synthesis of taxol, vitamin B12, and quinine for some true beauty (at least to this biochemist).
LSD total synthesis is definitely possible, and a (mostly) enantioselective synthesis is possible too.
(also just to aciddeath: do you want to understand chemistry, or chemical engineering? similar starting points, but different approaches).
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Organic Chemistry : An introduction. (M.F. Grundon & H.B. Henbest) An old one, but it got me into Organic Chemistry, and I've since made a living out of it :)
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Organic Chemistry : An introduction. (M.F. Grundon & H.B. Henbest) An old one, but it got me into Organic Chemistry, and I've since made a living out of it :)
Don't suppose your place is hiring? ;) The UK job market for organikers is pitiful at the moment, I'm planning to retrain in another field this September as I've been out of regular work for far too long now...
Another great organic textbook is http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1405114517.html it's definitely worth buying- it's a very readable and concise review of undergrad organic chemistry and is ideal for beginners. The author is also a really nice bloke and deserves your pennies :D