Silk Road forums
Market => Product requests => Topic started by: bsalt on December 17, 2011, 11:08 pm
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Curious if anyone has or can recommend a high CBD marijuana strain that I can grab off here. I hear it gives less of a high and more of a relax pain killer effect (if I am wrong please say so). So I'm all ears for recommendations and opinions from users of high CBD strains. Thanks!!
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I am looking for the same. My research tells me that there isn't much out there with high CBD. I believe that hash may have higher CBD, but I am not sure.
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Cannabinoids are contained in the head of the trichome, in fact they are in a fibrous mat at the end of the head. The head of trichome contain two vacuoles, one contains the terpenes and the other phenols. These make their way up the stock of the trichome and combine in the secretory cavity into a fibrous mat. This concentrated mat is hit with UV-B light, causing the creation of cannabinoids. When it is smashed the trichomes break open. When THC is exposed to air, it degrades both in potency and structure. It causes a large portion of the THC to degrade into a cannbinoids found when mis-handling weed CBN, also known as Cannabinol. This cannabinoid is only 1/10th as potent as THC and has very different effect. Specifically the high has a noticeable frontal head presence, a lack of euphoria, and a semi "groggy" stone. Not good medicine, it will get you high but that is not quality. Sativas are particularly delicate in this way as their high is the result of extremely high THC and a relatively low ratio of other cannabinoids. Where as Indica will have a decent amount of CBD, which will be retained to some extent, as with traces of THC, and other cannabinoids. Indica heavy structure also lends it to be protecting some trichomes on the inside of the bud, though sativa's airy nature generally negate this. Mexican Brick weed has large amounts CBN, and some CBD.
CBD is useful for pain relief, but leads to a heavy, sedated feeeling. "Couchlock stoned"
I find that hybrid that reflects a clear headed Satvia, with a still decent amount of CBD generally makes the best medicine for someone looking to not just be fucked up by weed. Finding functional medicine takes a bit of honing in. For me Blue Dream such as the stuff Rook has right now is a perfect medicinal strain; functional, euphoric, and still medicating.
There are some strains that have abnormally high CBD but the presence of unusual high amounts seems to be very subject to environmental factors. Most seems to come from around the Hindu Mountiains, and are close to land races.
As for Hash containing more CBD, think about what you learned above. All the active Cannabinoids are contained in the Trichomes, therefor the collection of Trichomes (or in better hash the collection of Trichomes and Hash oil) are going to naturally contain higher concentrations of those cannabinoids, but as you also learned THC breaks down so while some of the THC will still be active the outer layer will likely be subject to degradation so the high will not be identical.
Peace,
DigtalAlch
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hmm that's interesting I definitely don't want to be couchlocked nor that head high like your drunk feeling. I want the euphoria and pain relief and still for all intents and purposes functional in my day to day life. You suggest Rooks stuff for those results then? Thanks for the tip, and nice read.
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I guess Blue Dream it is! Nice read, thank you.
I was online doing a search about pot and epilepsy, and found one testimonial where the person was raving about Blue Dream as the best pot for his condition. So perhaps some Blue Dream with hashish sprinkled on top may be the cure, who knows.
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I take Rook's Blue Dream for joint pain caused by Lupus. A little works nice.
Even though its thc, OSO's liquids are very good for all over body pain. The high isn't as readily apparent to some people but four or five hours after you take it and it wears off you and realize the pain is coming back is when you start to recognize that it want there for a while. Julios jolly ranchers are good to when you can get them.
For me, pain is constant. So, when its suddenly not there I do feel high, but not because I am high just because I'm finally pain free. Ok, maybe I'm a little high lol...but its a better side affect than what the pills would do to my organs.
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No problem, I have a nasty disorder with my back and knees, and am battling a nastier disease, and also just recently started having issues with Anxiety Disorder. So if it's if it's to hard far one way I get overly stoned, am not functional, wich is not an option, and too far the other way and it makes me paranoid, brings out my anxiety. So I do a lot of research into the what I smoke, why I enjoy and how to work with that further.
Once you start to find the Cannabinoid Ratio you enjoy, start looking at terpenes these are also extremely important and do far more than just affect how the weed smells. ;)
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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All good points raised so far.
Don't forget, you can also become your own pharmacist, if you have the time and effort, and tailor your meds exactly to your needs.
A customer of mine has Lupus, and grows 3 strains, and makes bubblehash out of different ratios of the buds. He's been doing that for about five years now, and has it dialed in for the exact effect he's looking for.
So you really can take a pinch of this, and a dash of that, and end up with exactly what you need.
He also says that it really helps with tolerance as well, and he doesn't find he needs to change up his canna-meds nearly as often as he used to have to do to get the same effect.
I'll add to that by saying that any regular med user should always have 2 or 3 strains available that work for them, as there's nothing worse than finding something that works, and then building a tolerance that can dramatically lower the strains effectiveness at the same usage level.
You might also want to look into some of the Hindu Kush crosses as an element in your treatment.
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I would recommend you consider BudderMan's product by the sound of what you are looking for. I feel I am seeking similar relief for anxiety and pain (daily opioid user), and the best medicine I have found so far is BM's master kush budder (I really want to try the skywalker OG budder). This is an extremely concentrated form of purified cannabinoids which is one of the best smokes I have ever tried. A couple tiny smears on a little nug really accentuates the delicious flavors of the smoke and hits hard with an initial euphoric rush that quickly mellows to a very relieving clear headed body stone. Potentiates the opioids wonderfully as well. A bit too much can be sedating as nothing else puts me to sleep better than a nice hefty dab. Currently I have been using it with LexiSadie's vader, an beautiful purple indica I feel has a relatively high CBD ratio, which has been working wonderfully. The mars OG was absolutely fantastic with the budder too but that medicine goes straight to the dome for a wonderful stone.
Thanks for the awesome clarification DigitalAlch. Can you offer any more information about the terpenes and their psychoactive effects?
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Buy some CBD cooking oil or tincture,I can refer you to someone who does this very well if thats the route you want to take. I wouldn't bother with the 'budder' stuff.
CBD, CBN and THC are just 3 of 400+ parts of the marijuana plant, I think they all play a role, especially the conversion of the chemicals before/during/after consumption. This is one reason the effects are so different from smoking, vaporizing (more oxidation into CBN by absence of a oxygen-eating flame IMO) and ingesting orally.They are starting to look at THCV now, but there is not enough info out there yet,like their should and could be.
I watched "Should I smoke dope" a while back, and from that documentary alone, gained perspective I've never heard before. They injected THC into the hosts bloodstream, and it was pure seriousness, depth of thought and paranoia. She described it like being at an emotional funeral. THEN, they injected pure CBD (I believe) and she could not stop laughing.. not even long enough to comment. So I've challenged the commonly excepted theory that THC is what 'gets you high'
Pick a strong Indica dominant plant, (find a few that look good on here) and google the strain,then check the vendors feedback. The specific grow methods are an important factor you really can't calculate in.. unless you're doing it yourself.. As far as different tolerances to different strains... I'm not sure I buy into it. I think people smoking 3 star weed then switch to 5 star and think their tolerance is the difference in effect. But I did used to get an Indica strain called Nebula, from up north, that would close your eyes and melt you to the floor instantly, even after smoking other strains all day.. I couldnt smoke it that much, I'd never get out of bed.
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I have Lupus and arthritis and Im not really that old but not young either.
I've found that the blue dream works good for the swelling of joint glands associated with lupus.
Jack Herer makes me giggly, and so do the jolly ranchers.
I have OG Kush, and thats a mellow realxing buzz.
I have small amounts of 8 different strains and some I will probably never use, maybe I'll cook with them.
I'd be very interested in a CBD tincture. Wonder if its legal? In the states that have medical marijuana and havent implemented...some of them are breeding the weed with low thc and high CBD...I called an talked to them. They are also making a skin cream and a lozenge.
And I have tried a small amount of buddermans budder but Im just buddertarded or something because most of it is still in the freezer and I cant bring myself to deal with all that stickiness. Can I use that to cook with or make candy?
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Since I don't have time to write everything I'll copy some of my relevant notes, most of which are from other works. Some are from my own, but I have to avoid writing too much from my book as I wish to publish it one day and NOT have all of SR know who I am ;) THC is certainly not all that gets you high but it IS a major constituent, as is CBD, CND THCV, and many of the other 530+ cannabinoids that have been discovered. Most of which have a cumulative effect, each strain being a cocktail of cannainoids and terpenes. Terpenes are not inherently psychoactive but they do have noticeable effects.
"Cannabis and The Mind
The influence that one perceives when ingesting marijuana can be such a varied things; From the soaring, serene, and surreal to the stoney, stagnant, and the somber. The bizarre contrast must have some explanation, and indeed it does!
Marijuana affects the body because its bioactive cannabinoid compounds, especially ∆9-THC and cannabidiol (CBD), bind to and activate cannabinoid receptors—tiny molecular ports encoded by our genes and expressed on the membranous surfaces of our cells. The diversity of physiological effects generated by marijuana is due to the many different cell and tissue types that express cannabinoid receptors.
Various areas of the brain and other nervous system tissues contain cannabinoid receptors called CB1. The neurological effects of marijuana depend on the particular brain areas and networks these cannabinoid-sensitive cells participate in (for example, the neuronal networks mediating short-term memory, anxiety, or compulsive behavior). The location of the receptors on the cell can alter how they operate. Most mental and perceptual effects of cannabis can be attributed to CB1 receptor activation.
A second receptor, called CB2, has been identified primarily in certain cells of the immune system. CB2 appears responsible for the ability of THC, CBD, and the terpenoid β-carophyllene to reduce inflammation and some kinds of pain, among other effects.
How do we know such things? There were early clues that a specific receptor system is involved in marijuana’s effects. To test this hypothesis experimentally, some of the cannabinoid drugs produced in the 1980’s were designed to be weakly radioactive. These “hot” drugs light up the cannabinoid receptors they bind to, allowing scientists to see which neurons in the brain are sensitive to THC.
This and other techniques have revealed that the brain is teeming with CB1 receptors, consistent with marijuana having wide-ranging influences on mental function. Some of the only regions of the brain where CB1 receptors are absent are areas controlling vital functions such as breathing. This is why cannabis poses no risk of fatal respiratory depression that can occur with overdoses of opiates and other nervous system depressants such as alcohol, and why labeling marijuana as a “deadly narcotic” is incorrect and irresponsible.
The natural physiological chemicals that drive CB1 and CB2 receptors are a family of molecules present not just in humans but all over the animal kingdom. These native molecules are called endogenous cannabinoids, or endocannabinoids, a name borrowed from the plant. Endocannabinoids (often abbreviated as eCBs) have been called the “marijuana of the brain,” although this is a deceptive metaphor; eCBs are an integral part of our physiology and appeared much earlier in evolutionary history than the cannabis plant, as indicated by their presence in so many life forms, even very simple marine organisms. It is more accurate to say that the cannabis plant evolved to produce compounds that are remarkable biochemical mimics of the eCBs.
There are presently two well-studied and readily detectable eCBs: anandamide (a name derived from ananda, the Sanskrit word for bliss) and 2-AG (short for 2-arachidonylglycerol), each is generated in cells by specific enzymes in response to activation signals. In other words, cells generate and release anandamide or 2-AG when they receive particular signals to do so.
In the brain, for example, if one neuron (electrical cell of the brain) barrages another neuron with excitatory electrical activity, the target neuron may respond by generating and releasing eCBs from its cellular membrane.
The eCBs travel “backwards” across the synaptic cleft separating the two neurons, where they find CB1 receptors waiting. Through the molecular signaling of these strategically located CB1 receptors, the release of other, more principal neurotransmitters is momentarily paused. The eCBs act as a negative feedback, to say, “Whoa! That’s enough input, now slow down!” Because eCBs travel opposite the conventional neurotransmitter pathway across synapses, they have been dubbed “retrograde messengers.”
This fascinating, groundbreaking scientific discovery has revealed how a large number of brain cells appear to work: a given neuron releases eCBs in order to continuously regulate and tune its own synaptic inputs. This process, where synaptic connections between neurons are weakened or strengthened, is referred to as synaptic plasticity, a mechanism by which learning and memory occurs at the cellular level. The feedback mechanism of eCB-mediated synaptic plasticity is important not just for computational processes (how we think and feel and learn), but as a matter of cellular survival; too much excitation is deadly to cells. Thus, an apparently major function of eCBs, and a major effect of cannabinoids from marijuana, is neuroprotection—that is, protecting brain cells from too much excitation (known as excitotoxicity), which is a serious contributor to the brain damaging effects of stroke, epilepsy, and other neurological disorders.
NEURONAL FREQUENCY & SYNCHRONY: SETTING TEMPO WITH eCBS
What we have just described is that eCBs are used by the brain to dampen patterns of neuronal electrical activity, and one of the therapeutic effects of cannabis is to mimic this property. Yet this is only half the story. The eCBs also work the opposite way, releasing the neuron to fire more freely, a process called disinhibition.
This is another way that eCB-mediated synaptic plasticity appears to be adaptive for healthy brain function, though its ef fects vary based on the area of the brain. In a brain area called the amygdala, eCBs purge the memory of fearful experiences, helping an individual move past emotional trauma. This action helps explain the apparent utility of cannabinoids (including herbal cannabis) as a treatment for some cases of post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD. Large-scale population studies have failed to find any link between cannabis smoking and lung cancer or other respiratory ailments. By contrast, in the area called the hippocampus, tightly controlled eCB signaling allows cells to fire in coordinated synchrony, setting up the brain rhythms that are important for orienting oneself in physical space. Marijuana is thought to interrupt spatial memory by simultaneously flooding all the cells in this rhythmic engine with THC…um, where did I put that pen that was just in my hand? Similarly, the so-called somatic symptoms of a marijuana high—feelings such as floating, sinking into your seat, or altered balance, are likely due to the THC-sensitive circuitry of yet another brain region, the cerebellum.
To summarize, eCBs can either inhibit neuronal activity by slowing down excitatory synapses onto that neuron, or they can disinhibit (excite) neuronal activity by slowing down inhibitory synapses. Both of these are physiological actions that contribute to normal brain function. The fact that CB1 receptors can orchestrate the tempo of brain cells in either direction—faster or slower—surely helps to explain how cannabis can have such wide ranging, even opposite, perceived effects in different individuals and circumstances.
The story of eCBs is not just about the brain, though. Important therapeutic properties of cannabinoids are mediated by the CB2 receptors on immune cells. Immune cells promote inflammation during the course of fighting an infection, an important adaptive property; however this action also can be a source of pain, tissue damage, and an obstacle to healing and well-being. Activation of CB2 receptors throughout the body (including the brain, where immune cells are called microglia), either by eCBs or the cannabinoids in marijuana, tells the immune cells to slow down releasing the chemicals that trigger inflammation.
This effect is directly analogous to what we described for the brain, where eCBs serve as a brake to the release of neurotransmitters. Clinically, the need to control swelling, itching, and pain is the reason why corticosteroids and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are such widely used medicines.
Cannabinoids offer a different molecular approach to these same problems. Recent research findings suggest that cannabinoids may be especially promising in reducing dangers of chronic inflammation in the brain, which is believed key to many serious neurodegenerative diseases ranging from Alzheimer’s dementia to Parkinson’s Disease and related motor disorders. The immune modulating effects of cannabinoids also appear to hold promise for the treatment of autoimmune diseases such as diabetes and multiple sclerosis. The cannabinoid system appears to be primordial, since it exists in nearly all species of animals so far investigated, even very simple ones like microscopic hydra.
To date, the results of 79 controlled clinical trials on humans have been published, along with more than 15,000 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the chemistry and pharmacology of cannabis and cannabinoids, as well as more than 2,000 articles on the body’s natural endocannabinoids. These studies clearly show that the effects can be variable and difficult to predict with precision, but marijuana provides therapeutic benefits across a startlingly broad range of conditions and has an unparalleled record of safety.
Methods of Administration
How THC operates in our bodies is better understood with each new study. But marijuana is composed of over 400 compounds, including at least 88 cannabinoids other than THC.
Cannabis is used by inhalation (smoking or vaporization), ingestion (eating, drinking, or absorption through the mucus membranes of the mouth) or, more rarely, topical application (rubbing into the skin).
Inhalation is a considerably more rapid and efficient delivery method than ingestion, since the cannabinoids, terpenes and other chemicals pass readily across the lining of the lungs straight into the bloodstream. The effects and quality of the high are also somewhat different.
Vaporization (or ingestion) is safer for the respiratory tract than smoking and creates a far less telltale odor. Burning cannabis (or just about anything else for that matter) creates harmful chemicals, known as reactive oxygen species, that may damage the mouth, throat, and lungs. However, heating cannabis in a controlled manner to a temperature just below ignition of the plant material releases the lighter chemicals (including the cannabinoids) without actually burning anything or creating the reactive chemicals found in smoke.
Vaporization may also provide a different quality of high, since it may produce a different mixture of volatilized compounds. Interestingly, though prolonged smoking has been shown to damage lungs and bronchial tubes, large-scale population studies have failed to find any link between cannabis smoking and lung cancer or other respiratory ailments.
Since the cannabinoids THC and cannabidiol (CBD) have both been shown to have cancer-fighting properties, scientists speculate that cannabinoids may have a prophylactic effect against damage that the tars and other potentially harmful chemicals present in cannabis smoke would otherwise cause.
As rapid as the onset of effects is when cannabis is inhaled, it is slow when eaten. When cannabis products are ingested, the cannabinoids pass first through the stomach then are absorbed across the lining of the intestines into the blood, which passes through the liver and changes most of the THC into 11-hydroxy-THC. While 11-hydroxy-THC is also psychoactive, it creates a different kind of high. Because absorption from the intestines is relatively inefficient and slow, larger doses must be taken if ingested rather than inhaled, and the effects last longer but are delayed for 30-90 minutes after ingestion. This delay can lead to inadvertent excess dosages, since you can’t tell how much you have on board, unlike inhalation, which allows for easy and immediate dosage adjustment."
That should explain part of why experience is subjective, but common factors can be found. Next, as far as Vaporizing creating more CBN here are some interesting stats -
THC has a boiling point of 200 C (392 F). However before the THC boils, other parts of the oil/trichome evaporate and boil.
Here are some important temperatures: At 21 C (70 F) the most volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending a pungent odor to the air.
At 31 C (87 F) the less volatile terpenoids start to evaporate, lending the air even more pungent odors.
At 39 C (102 F ) vir tually all of the terpenoids undergo evaporation fairly rapidly.
At 50 C (122 F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.
At 66 C (150 F) Cannabidiol (CBD) melts and starts to evaporate.
At 185 C (365 F) Cannibinol (CBN) boils.
At 200 C (392 F) THC boils. Clear vapor from a vaporizer.
That was grabbed from Ask Ed, a relatively good source for scientifically accurate info.
A bit of scientific info on arthritis and cannabinoids:
http://arthritis-research.com/content/10/2/R43
Another article worth reading, about breast cancer and CBD
http://norml.org/news/2011/10/19/cannabinoid-completely-prevents-chemotherapy-induced-neuropathy-study-says
In this patients were given pure CBD, which on it's own is non-psychoactive.
When I have a chance I'll go find the rest of my info on the different cannabinoids, their medical use, terpenes, their medical use, and lastly different genetics the average found and the different flux's the come with different ways of growing.
When I can get back to growing I'll get back to making medical cannabis product for you all. I document cannbinoid ratio, when I can of course.
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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Count me in as someone else looking for a high CBD product, preferably in the form of something you don't have to smoke such as a tincture. Honestly I'm surprised no one on SR is offering a product high in CBD to us lowly folks in non-medical marijuana states.
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At 50 C (122 F) THC-Acid decarboxylates as the water molecule held in the carbonate form evaporates. This activates the THC.
You know you are my hero ;)
I read different temps for decarb. Never 122f
220f and 320 f
I used 320f in an oven bag worked well but I may have boiled off other important elements?
Since the master made be interested in tinctures. How to you decarb?
Interesting observations. I hear the CBD evens the THC paranoia out.
Strange how the effects from, smoking, vaping, tincturing, and eating are all different from the same strain.
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I still have one or two of my tinctures left in my freezer. My handy dandy medicine.
Give me two - four weeks. I'll have a tinctures both alcohol and glycerin. Trouble is finding good source of Cannabis that fits the genetics / quality for a superior medicine AND it still being price effective. Hoping to find some Blue Dream, Buddhas Sister, or possibly one of the other medicinal strains that work well.
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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Check out this site, it's very good at listing the THC | CBD | CBN ratios, as well as the best purpose of that strain (to treat nausea, anxiety, appetite ... blah blah) .. it's a great site though
http://budgenius.com/
Why has there been so much shit copied and pasted in this post lol, I had skip to page 2 before I got angry.
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The budder is sticky but with some practice it can be used without waste, and I really enjoy the extra oomph it provides. You can use the budder you have to cook with, make a tincture, or anything basically... its just all the deliciousness without any of the insoluble plant matter.
Thanks DigitalAlch, I knew much of the pharmacology but there was other very interesting info as well. I was mainly curious about how big a role the additional terpenes played in the subjective effects beyond aromas. Couldnt find much but found ones binds the CB2 receptor, so maybe there are some that actually posses psychoactive properties slightly on their own.
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As I've stated in another thread, cannabis has a lot in common with wines.
And just like subtle changes, sometimes very subtle changes, make marked differences in wines, terpenes also play a role in the psychoactive properties of cannabis, and oft times they're just as subtle, if not moreso.
When it comes to cannabis nutrients during growth, there are two schools of thought. One is that all the marketing material spouted by the extremely profitable cannabis nutrient industry is the gospel truth, and super-blaster-mega-9000 will really make your buds explode with growth and flavour. The other school of thought is if you pick up some $30 10 lb sacks of NPK, and a few trace elements and minerals, nothing else is needed and the commercial offerings are nothing more than 'rocket-fuel' bullshit. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
While the cannabanoid ratios are genotypically variant across phenotypes, you can get slight - and I mean parts per million slight - differences in terpene ratios with different nutrients. This even though by the 'on the label and by the mix' metrics they have the technically same NPK components, the variations in trace constituents seems to affect the terpene ratios significantly.
That's why sometimes you will get two samples of the same weed grown by different gardners that test out to the same cannabanoid ratios, but have noticeably different effects.
The demonization of cannabis for so many years has held back research, and we're lucky as fuck to have someone like DigialtAlch on board here that is studying and gaining a deeper understanding of the complexities of the worlds most versatile plant. It's an exciting field now, and over the next decade as we learn more about cannabis we're going to be absolutely amazed at the incredibly wide range of facets that cannabis presents.
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ok, according to the bud genius site blue dream is very low in cbd but pretty high in cbn.
I'm no chemist. <sigh> DigitalAlch when is your book coming out? I would buy it...
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I've read that Harlequin, Blue Dream, Incredible Romulan, Romulan, Rx, Stinky Purple, and Jamaican Lion have high CBD. I believe Indicas tend to have more CBD than Sativas.