Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: DutchQualityBeans on September 20, 2011, 07:00 pm
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>>>>>SR staff is about to introduce a commision system, exact details of this will be provided by SR staff.
But for the early thoughts of this new feature I made a poll... :D<<<
This is an automated message to all Silk Road sellers:
Some of you are just joining us as sellers, others have been here since the beginning. Wherever you came into this game, I hope you are having fun :) For those just coming in, I want to give you a little history.
Starting out, there were no commissions on sales. Sellers got 100% of what the buyer paid and there wasn't even a fee to become a seller! This might sound great for sellers, but paradoxically, I think things got much better when we started charging for accounts and adding a commission. Why? Because buyers had more reason to trust you and do business with you, and Silk Road finally had a revenue stream to invest in advanced server security and feature development.
When we started charging a commission, I just picked a number, something like 5.25%. This was added on to every sale, so that sellers got what they listed the item for and buyers only saw one price. I was hoping this would give me the flexibility to change the commission rate at will without too much fuss from the community, but I soon found that many cared very much about this number, especially when I raised it by 1% to 6.25%.
From my perspective, I would like this number to be as high as possible without causing sales to drop for you, but I have no idea where that point is. It could be 5%, 10% or even 20%, I just don't know. I'm not saying we're amazon.com, but they charge a 15% commission on every item plus a flat $1.25 and I think ebay charges something like 13% if you take into account all of their fees.
So, my proposal is to run an experiment. We've been tracking sales data very closely for months and we're showing fairly steady linear growth. What I'd like to do is double the commission rate to 12.5% for 1 month and see how sales respond to this. If our rate of growth slows, or even shrinks, then at least we'll know that it is too much and can scale it back, but if it doesn't affect sales, then we'll have doubled our revenue without any major consequence and can start investing in some of our "back-burner" projects such as internationalizing the site, developing an api, possibly starting an insurance pool, and getting normal updates and features online faster.
This change will begin in 3 days unless I hear an overwhelming number of you respond negatively against it. Thanks for your time and for making Silk Road great :)
Best regards,
Silk Road staff
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Silk Road is not Amazon or eBay, and does not trade yet at even close to the volumes of those two, a rational economist would not compare them this way. :o
A double increase in commission will only stall the long term market growth for both Silk Road buyers and sellers. :'(
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I've only thought about this for less than 2 minutes and I see a huge increase in out of escrow orders and a decrease in customer satisfaction and thus, being a bad idea.
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Im just a newbie here but I think some of SR's points are valuable and worth considering. I would like to hear more about the insurance pool, that *could* increase buyer confidence considerably... depending on the details of implementation.
Increasing server availability internationally, security and performace is great idea but I dont see that justifying a double rate increase.
I think a slowly graduated increase based on improvment of services is the right middle ground with feedback along the way adjusting for the rate of growth/nongrowth...
Just arbitrarily picking a number out by comparison to megaconglomerate light years ahead services is perhaps inappropriate altogether though.
Show me a definate plan, give me a hard number and a projected completion date before the next increase is considered and I'll be quite agreeable if it sounds fiesable.
Paperchasin'
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I've only thought about this for less than 2 minutes and I see a huge increase in out of escrow orders and a decrease in customer satisfaction and thus, being a bad idea.
I must say that I agree 100% with Nomad here, I do not see the positives outweighing the negatives.
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Plain and simple, Ill set up shop on OVDB also to keep the prices low for my customers!
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silk road has to eat too.
they are concerned about sale decreases, as long as it's not notable then it's a win. buyers and sellers are getting hit left and right with fees. the cost of doing business anonymously.
when is too much? hopefully they wont test that barrier
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I'd have to say this is bullshit, and straight greedy. 5% was generous enough for just operating the site, not that I'm not thankful for that, but that takes next to zero legal risk. Thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins are spent on SR daily, and if SR can't run the site on 5% of that AND have money for himself, I think he's doing something wrong.
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Yah I love SR, but this is incredibly dumb IMO. My 8ths would jump too much.
I try to eat SR's 5% in order to provide similar to F2F prices, this would be pushing it on alot of things.
Larger orders may not even be worth it to do through SR anymore.
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at that rate it's just no longer economical to either buy or sell for me. that's just sad because it was starting to roll along brilliantly :'(
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I'm with Nomad here. Doubling the fee is just too much. If it goes to anything above 10% I feel like the buyers and sellers will revolt or leave. I don't see that much of an increase being necessary or prudent. A slight increase to achieve the goals laid out in the PM might be acceptable but until we are seeing the volumes of an amazon or ebay doubling it just isn't justified imo. From 1% to 5% to 6.25% to 12.5% in a few months is just too high of an increase. Sellers would have to lower their prices to keep their current customers happy or force buyers to pay more thereby decreasing sales. Either way it seems like a bad idea.
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Let me go ahead and predict the mass amounts of vendors going on vacation modes and nothing but scammers and LE sitting on the menu list.
:D
nomad bloodbath
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Fat pig hole cunt bitch tits.
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This reasoning looks highly flawed to me — there is no valid reason to strip the buyers from their bitcoins, especially since this is NOT a free move. It'd result in an obviously lower volume of sales.
Also, one has to keep in mind here that SR's interest and the seller's here is not the same. For x2 move in commission, as long as the volume of sales doesn't half, SR is still better off. In the end, buyers and sellers would pay the cost of this change, and if I can't imagine why one'd think of this as positive, I certainly can imagine how this idea came to SR's mind. It's just like taxation: as long as the marginal rate is low enough, there's a strong incentive to raise it. But up to which point?
Moreover, it'd produce a strong incentive to fork the marketplace and/or to move to other channels (out of escrow, return to F2F dealing) which would be highly detrimental to SR's business. It's better to have 6% of commission and a 90+% market share and 12% and a <45% market share.
And it makes all of us angry to have to waste time with this. The cost in terms of good will here is already sunk.
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sounds like LE has taken over now...
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Maybe SR could try introducing a flat fee system? Something like the $1.25 charged on Amazon?
-no small transactions
-sellers have incentive to list more product per listing
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I think 12.5 is a bit steep, especially since there are constantly popping up threads like this exploit fixed and that bug found...
If they really go through with 12.5%, I expect A LOT more features, more redundant servers and proper and regular pentesting to ensure security.
Personally I would like to see a model where the current commission is standard, but with the option for sellers to donate like 5% to SR and receive something like a badge for that next to their names in listings and such.
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LOL tight arsed bitches. ^^^
The only way to see if it will work is to give this fee a run for a month. I think SR are being very generous and make this a trial.
Its not like this fee is going to come out of the vendors profit ::) It is going to come out of the buyers pocket, and if the customer is willing to keep buying your product then the fee is fair.
its on par with other online fees ffs.
perhaps to make yourself feel better about yourself and your prices you could add it to your item description so customers know full well what' is what..
big bag o buds - 80btc
postage and handling - 4btc
SR fee - 10.5 btc
Total - 94.5 btc
You get what you pay for, and if this fee means better/quicker implementation of features and security, then FUCK YEAH
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SR is entitled to charge what they deem fair. The question they have to ask is whether the service they provide to sellers is worth it for them. Obviously buyers get great protection out of SR escrow but is it worth it to sellers to be charged 12%, have their money in escrow til transactions are completed and have to use only Bitcoin to accept payments.
I am not sure it is.
This sort of thing really squeezes the margins on the smaller items ( which most items are on SR ) and you may see a mass exodus of sellers as Nomad has suggested.
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From 1% to 5% to 6.25% to 12.5% in a few months is just too high of an increase.
^^THIS. Too much too fast IMHO. Although I understand that higher fees = an investment in our future. I just don't want to see customers (or sellers) scared off.
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From 1% to 5% to 6.25% to 12.5% in a few months is just too high of an increase.
^^THIS. Too much too fast IMHO. Although I understand that higher fees = an investment in our future. I just don't want to see customers (or sellers) scared off.
^^ AGREED. Small incremental increases coupled with improved services is a worldwide cross-business standard. When the increases start cutting into growth curve, back off. Simple... KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid] avoids SNAFU, TARFU and FUBAR situations... (situation normal, all fucked up.. things are really fucked up... fucked up beyond all recognition lol..) and don't fix it if it isn't broke: after all, IS SILK ROAD BROKE anyways?? Seems to be working pretty good to me.
Heres another question to consider: Exactly WHO is ALWAYS WILLING to PAY INFLATED PRICES for drugs?? answer: LE. Anytime someone wants a HUGE order FAST and is WILLING TO PAY ALOT for it I suddenly don't know a damn thing about squat! Strange thing this LE induced amnesia syndrome, its been a lifesaver lol...
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Dammit, I see tetravorts 8balls just went from 322.00 to 388.00 after I read the SR rate hike PM... related?
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New sr fee would start in 3 days, so I dont think is related.
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12.5% is way too much and will drive sellers elsewhere or skirt the escrow system. Sellers already get whacked with the fluctuating bitcoin exchange rate, escrow fees, and the occasional scam buyer that it just may not be worth their time to deal with an additional cost on top of it all. If you want to raise the rates, then fine, raise it 1 or 2 percent and make it permanent. I has a feeling that doubling the commission is not going to increase SR income, it will just reduce number of vendors and items available and the income in the end for SR will remain about the same as it is now.
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How keynsian. Sellers will end up lowering prices, so this amounts to a tax. I highly doubt there is a single buyer who has ever thought 'hm, if only sellers had to pay more taxes on their items, I might be more willing to trust them'; apart from sellers I doubt many of the buyers know or care about the SR fee at all.
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Here's my initial problem...
Amazon and Ebay offer prices LOWER than what you would get at a store. So they can charge outrageous fees because at the end of the day, you are saving money as a buyer.
But SilkRoad has products that are typically far more expensive then you would get f2f. If fees increase, it just makes this expense even higher, less economical, and makes it more likely that someone will buy their goods elsewhere or just go out of escrow with trusted vendors.
Finally, Amazon and Ebay dont give the buyer or seller any kind of currency risk. SR, with the use of fluctuating (and volatile) bit coins, does. And while it's possible for a seller to hedge their coins, its not possibly for a buyer to do the same thing with anything in his SR wallet.
So I don't think doubling the fee is a smart move. If you have to, increase it slowly.
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This appears to be a sales tax, something to be passed on to the customer...and while I understand your reasoning, it is quite a bit higher than I'd be willing to pay...I only have to pay 8% sales tax at a local store, and nothing at online outlets like Amazon.
I think the current rates are fair, but with a doubling of the rate I believe dealers would all start offering out-of-escrow sales, and scamming would increase...dropping sales and your revenue.
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I'm not feeling it.....this isn't something Silk Road should compare to Amazon or eBay. Sure we shop like this was eBay or Amazon, but that doesnt
mean we should follow their business model. Silk Road is unique in that it does NOT follow these business models.
While I support the idea of an Insurance Pool, or possible API improvements, I don't think after all this time Silk Road is broke.
This will make sellers drop like flies, revenue will remain the same or even worse - decrease. You can't propose such a steep increase so fast.
Personally I feel it is a statement against freedom and what Silk Road stands for; to conform to a centralized example like Amazon/eBay.
The spike in commission during the time when the BTC is so god damn low, is going to hurt us very badly. Out of escrow sales will go awry.
As a seller I am going to close up shop by 2012 - if this goes into effect. This is especially inconvenient since I've just invested a large amount of
capital in new products, and had planned on making this a good holiday season for everyone. Now I've got to figure out how to make just EVEN.
L75
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12.5 is too much. Already paying a premium on the stuff that i buy on SR but i dont mind it since SR offers anonymity and security. But at 12.5 i would rather go out of escrow with one of the more trusted sellers here.
IMHO the fee would be justified if SR was stressed with traffic and there were a ton of buyers (thousands of transactions per day) but thats not the case, so for the time being this fee increase is premature.
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I like SR, I like the way it works, the anonymity and the ubiquity of the products, I really appreciate it all. But, the prices for most stuff on SR are already very high in comparison to what you have to pay on the "free market", so the only solutions I see for myself, in case of the pay-fee increase, is to go without SR, for example by contacting the sellers I trust directly, what I will definitely do.
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It would be far better for SR to not do this. Vendors will stop selling because it will mean less buyers willing to pay the increase. Is a vendor going to stay when their sales drop by half or more because buyers no longer want to pay? I doubt it. One thing that SR may not understand is that a vendor may only be making a 10% profit on an item they sell and by increasing the fees that high will make it not worth their while. Less vendors and less buyers means zero profit increase for SR.
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I am strictly a consumer here. I buy my weekly stash of weed on SR, and occasionally get some random psychedelics for my weekend frolics.
SR has a pretty nice thing going. Anonymity and security (i.e. escrow) makes this a mighty fine place to buy my illicit substances.
Yeah. I pay a bit more than my street dealer, but my street dealer doesn't let me sample goods from multiple vendors from all around the world. My street dealer doesn't offer an arbitrator if I get ripped off.
The weed on here is awesome, and I toast all of those that are successfully popping 1/8ths and quarters all around.
We are less than a year into this great SR experiment. There will be competitors with better features or lower prices or something or another coming to a TOR node near you.
Just like SR has done a pretty good job of weeding scammers and other scum out the marketplace, the .onion will weed out any SR-like sites that don't beat the competition. There will be similar (yet different) sites popping up, I'm sure.
The genie is out of the bottle. I have confidence that A-CAP will settle this question as to whether a commission raise is a good thing or not.
xoxo,
- Bit
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I think it's VERY CLEAR that this is not a popular move with the SR Community.
And after thinking about it some more, it seems very excessive and we really will see an increase in already high prices.
Increase Prices = No Buyers :-\
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Well, shit. I'm in no mode to think of something that voices my full opinion. To keep it short - that's WAY too high, the comparison to ebay & amazon seems ridiculous, and overall this makes me pretty upset.
~DigitalAlch
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I purposely do not sell out of escrow because I think that SR deserves his cut. I think this could change if the increase is implemented. Also, according to their own words, they have been incrementally going up month after moth with the 6.23 percent. If it gets raised, i bet my last bigcoin that number will go down. If it aiint broke, don't fix it....
Things are going good right now. If sales are going up each month, then let it ride. I see nothing but problems if you start charging more. 1. Vendors will go outside of escrow (especially the trusted ones) 2. vendors will try to sell outside of SR, like OVDB and other places.. I say, leave well enough alone. and in 6 months you will be able to buy your mansion.....
I don't like the comparison to Amazon and Ebay either. When Ebay stated, I believe that that it was entirely a bid system and the percentage was quite low. The reason the prices of Amazon and Ebay have gone up so much is that they are so popular and make so much money. Also, If you start charging prices that are getting closer to 20 percent. you will start seeing regular customers working side deals with their reguar vendors and cutting SR totally out of the loop. I see this as a huge step back for SR.... I was kind of upset with they raised to 6.23 percent, but hey, no big deal. but when I see it double, whats next month? tripple? where's the end?
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Not a fan of this idea at all. Why not go up to a more reasonable number? Like 8.5%? A ~6% commission spike is absurdly high and not fair to the customers or vendors.
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Definitely not a fan. Makes me reconsider buying a seller account, and whats with the seller account auction going away? sounds like someone is getting greedy to me.
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Judging by the thread so far, the one almost universal agreement is that it will leave a bad taste in the sellers' collective mouths. Sellers may jump ship at the first viable opportunity; I'm sure some are imagining Daddy Fat Sacks picking out diamond pinky rings when they see 100% rate increases.
Spitballing here:
-Sliding scale commission- highest for new sellers/small amounts, lowest for long term/larger amounts
--Reliable Sellers with a good rep are like gold- new sellers- who knows? Give the new sellers something to work towards.
--12.5% of a 5$ digital good is a lot easier to swallow than 12.5% of 2800$ Unicorn Horn
-Increase Seller account fee- gradually (or make it all auction based, then you can shorten and lengthen the auction to influence price)
-- it's one time, so sellers won't be reminded of it every sale they make.
-Just raise it gradually, like every other company :)
-Keep it under 10% - That's a huge psychological barrier
-Want it over 10%? - split it up, like a cell phone bill; airplane or concert ticket.
-Make it temporary, and specific- eg 'SR is fundraising for servers' then use a cheesy thermometer graphic or something (no numbers) so everyone can see it fill up, then the fee goes away.
-In addition to fees, fluctuations, etc, sellers are also losing entire packages to shady buyers/mailmen/customs officials, etc. The SR commission is just one of many money drains.
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I'd advocate a 7.5% commission if it means the 3 mods split the extra .75% and SR gets his extra .5% then everyone's happy ...
IMHO, The mods should get a little something for helping out.
I'm postponing ALL orders untill after the "trial".
-RI
Edit: Methoxetamine mathematical FAILURE. ;)
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Just when I was contemplating trying to come back as a vendor, this nonsense. Lost my ass on the bitcoin (still haven't cashed out)...so I basically have to take a 10% tax to cash out. Let's look where I would price a quarter at:
$100
less $12.50 SR tax
less $10 to cash out
less $5 Shipping
less supplies
less the time to package it up
= $72.50 (at best)
And I have to worry about the Feds on here as a bonus.
Big fat thumbs down.
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I'm all for SR increasing their revenue in order to keep the site secure, safe, and bring new features -- I definitely understand that it takes capital to grow and expand.
SR, have you considered an alternate source of revenue such as charging those who benefit from new features (or other ways in general?). For instance, people may very well be willing to pay towards an insurance pool.
In general, I think there may be a better way of increasing revenue than through an increased sales tax -- at least at this stage. If anything, I think you should try to promote exponential growth for a bit before you start capping it to linear or sublinear growth.
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The only winner here is the guy who owns silk road in getting doubled profits.
The simple fact is that some buyers will leave. Some will slow down their buying, while others will not be affected at all.
This can in no way benefit a buyer or a seller.
Sellers WILL lose customers.
Buyers WILL pay more unless the seller eats the rate hike.
I am against this with all that I am.
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The only winner here is the guy who owns silk road in getting doubled profits.
The simple fact is that some buyers will leave. Some will slow down their buying, while others will not be affected at all.
This can in no way benefit a buyer or a seller.
Sellers WILL lose customers.
Buyers WILL pay more unless the seller eats the rate hike.
I am against this with all that I am.
TOLD.
SR PLEASE DON'T GET GREEDY ON US!
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I thought the current commission was at the very top of what was acceptable. If it raises anymore people are going to start seriously looking at other venues.
As a buyer I'm also a bit ticked that I found out about it this way. It seems secretive and shady to do this as a private message to sellers when it's the buyers that will be paying that extra 6%.
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Agree with all who are not agreed with commission to go up, as a buyer I will go to other places, which don't have such comissions.
If you want to ruin SR, make it double and you will see what will happen ( out of escrow, less buyers, less sellers, less money at the end ).
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I'd advocate a 7.5% commission if it means the 3 mods split the extra .75% and SR gets his extra .5% then everyone's happy ...
IMHO, The mods should get a little something for helping out.
I'm postponing ALL orders untill after the "trial".
-RI
Edit: Methoxetamine mathematical FAILURE. ;)
Not once did I want to be compensated for my time and effort helping mod the forms. But, it takes a lot more time and effort than most people realize. Granted, I do this because of the good of the site, not to line my pockets, but if SR is going to be making a lot of money, then I agree, the mods should be compensated.
Trust me, im not trying to get paid for what I do. Its just when others try to justify to make more money and then there are some of us that DONATE ALL of our time and effort and all we see is a better site and community. To me, that is worth a lot... Again, I am glad to be apart of SR and will continue to donate my time regardless on the decisions that are made, but It just crossed my mind that there are a few of us that dont receive a dime for all of our efforts. (Nor do we ask for it)
BUT A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE THAT DONATE TO U... IT MEANS A LOT!!! I CAN SAY FOR ALL MODS THAT WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT AND A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL!! EVEN IF ITS NOT MONEY, JUST A THANK YOU NOTE IS GREAT!!!
B
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I don't think the price increase is unreasonable considering the service it provides, although I would like to see more aggressive maintenance and updates. It might even inspire some much needed competition and make the free market less centralized and dependent on a single site. I honestly doubt that sales would drop too much until someone offers an equal service at a better price. SR is still very unique and there are plenty of people (myself included) who will fork over the extra change (albeit begrudgingly as this thread poignantly illustrates).
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Simple economic theory would suggest the lower the prices the more sales will be had. More sales = more cut for SR. No probs. They are running a business not a charity. I do however think that 12.5% is a psychological barrier which will be detrimental to the amount of trade.
Stick it at 7.5%. Make the statement this will be the case for the next 6-12 months or whatever and review it then. If trade has increased no need to raise it - if trade has decreased perhaps a downwards adjustment would be nescessary. If it has remained stagnant perhaps a 1% increase would be warranted.
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not to blunt, but... FUCK THIS
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from the view of someone who is currently working on establishing
a seller account:
Horrible Idear, seriously.
Bitcoin has enoth fluctuation as it is and beeing a vendor
makes "getting your cash" a risky buisness already.
Cutting 12% from the little profitmargins will scare new vendors
quite a bit.
Not everyone here grows his own weed or has a lab in the basement.
A good bet would be most ppl are reselling. Profit is not easy to be made
that way anyhow.
For a Vendor that doesnt cash out his bitcoin on a daily base it could be quite
a bummer to have even higher fees.
while we comparing stuff to ebay:
- does ebay charge me 100€ so i can sell my crap ??!?
- does ebay come with a complex system of E-money that often enoth barly provides
some 80-85% cashout rate anyway ?!?
- can i sue SR if he decides to run with all the funds in SR ?!?
- can i (as a professional seller) get a tax refund on the SR Fees *coth ?!?
Whut i am saying is: dont compare dogs with hourses.
Greed is the end of a lot of good projects in the shady buisness,
please dont start with it.
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You can draw comparisons between this issue and the one Netflix recently faced. They dominated the market for streaming video and DVD rentals. They raised their prices by 100% and lost 1 million customers. Without the revenue from customers they are losing content providers because they cannot offer the $$ needed to retain them ( Starz recently ).
You raise fees and force sellers to raise prices they are going to lose customers and if they arent getting the volume of customers they need then there is really minimal benefits to listing on SR. Raising fees that dramatically will put too great of a strain on sellers that already have to deal with BTC fluctuations and BTC cash out costs as is. Greenmachines illustration of a $100 sale equating to around $70 in pocket is bang on.
Comparisons to eBay and Amazon are not exactly fair as other posters have pointed out. Amazon is the largest online shopping site in the world, SR is a niche trading site in an underground economy. eBay for instance raised their fees on Buy it Now auctions but at the same time lowered fees on normal auctions to get buyers back to their auctions style service which was the intention of the site in the first place. SR was initially setup as a BTC only escrow site but has slowly deviated away from that for some listings. Perhaps if new fees are needed a wider range of services could be taxed. Let trusted sellers offer LR or Pecunix for a higher % or let them offer group buy listings or charge them a slightly higher fee when they have buyers release funds before delivery. Just spitballing here.
It would seem to ask more of sellers you would need to offer more to them.
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Another user here who was thinking of becoming a seller, but this would probably stop me. :(
I don't really see the point to this. I definitely want SR to get paid for all his work, but with all the sales that happen on this site ever day, I'm surprised the 6% would not be enough. Especially since it is all going one place - another reason I don't really like the ebay/amazon comparison is those are huge companies paying the salaries of hundreds if not thousands of employees.
In the long run I don't even really see this generating more revenue for SR. If sales are increasing steadily now, just leave it be. More sales = more revenue. I really don't see how this could not effect the growth of sales. It increases the cost to buyers, lowers a seller's cut, or both, and that is going to make doing business elsewhere or out of escrow more appealing.
It also just doesn't seem very considerate of the sellers. I'm very impressed with the effort most sellers on this site put forward, the care they have for their customers, etc. and I think they should be commended. This just kind of seems like a slap in the face to sellers from SR, who makes no money without them and their services.
Personally I would really like to be a part of SR, not just to make money. I love everything this site stands for, and the system in place. It is a great forum to reach out and provide a service to people, BUT it also has to be worthwhile financially at the end of the day. There is already so much that sellers have to go through to make this profitable, especially newer ones just starting up, and I think this is going to put a lot of them off. I know it is at least making me reconsider whether it is worth it to do business here.. even if it isn't THAT huge of a final paycut, it kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth the way SR is going about this.
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SR needs their cut, that's definite. I think the main concern I would have as a buyer is what that cut is and how it effects the price I pay. So just throwing my 2 cents out there, but I think 10% would have to be the absolute upper limit.
Some countries have a GST (Goods and Services Tax) set at about this, and it seems to work, so if we think about it in the same way it's not the worst idea. BUT I'm already holding off making purchases as nothing I'm interested in as at the right price right now. Adding to the price for me would make me think even more before making a purchase, which means some good vendors, and SR, would really be missing out in the long run.
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"This change will begin in 3 days unless I hear an overwhelming number of you respond negatively against it. Thanks for your time and for making Silk Road great :)"
Count me in as one who responded NEGATIVELY.
Thanks
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Like most others I am dead against a rise of this much. In fact, in my opinion, raising the commission will probably have the opposite effect to that is intended.
Both buyers & sellers already have to deal with various fees and charges to even be able to participate on SR (fees for buying and selling bitcoins, fluctuating btc values, commisions from exchanges, etc.)
In fact, I actually felt sorry for a vendor I recently bought from because by the time I received the product they had probably lost about 40% - 50% of the initial order total.
If there has to be some form of restructuring of the fee schedule then I think it should give sellers an incentive to stay here on SR and have their consistency rewarded and not penalising them for being successful.
The idea I am about to describe has been used in many large bricks & mortar stores and online shops.
Sellers should all start off at a basic level and depending on their sales & feedback (and other factors) be able to move up a level when certain criteria is met.
For example:
Level 1 (Bronze) - Initial starting point (8% fee)
Level 2 (Silver) - Maybe made more than 10 successful sales (6% fee)
Level 3 (Gold) - Maybe more than 30 sales (4% fee)
Level 4 (Platinum) - More than 50 sales (2% fee)
Obviously those figures are just pulled out of my hat and more issues/situations would need to be thought about (eg: a seller's feedback rating should play a big part).
But as you can see my theory actually rewards prolific and successful sellers and not penalises them. The more sales the more commission for SR. Simple!
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As I understand last pm from SR this increase will not start.
We received survey what is really confusing to me, so if someone explain it better would be nice.
What I do not understund is at what rate I would delist an item?
If I am willing to pay let say 10% for $100 item price, but I would not accept 11% ??
What to answer? Is that 1% will provoce me to delist? No, of course not, but that is very vogue questions.
I highest price is close to $100 and maximum sr commision what I would accept will be %10.
But supose that rate will be at %15? Would that be a reason to leave sr? No, of course not.
But that is me.
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12.5% on top of any price is stupid. I dont mind the site owner making money, but I do mind taking the risk buying the bitcoins, since the prices go up and down every second, then giving them in control of a seller i do not know, and then hoping that I get my drugs in the end. Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of Silk Road, but not at any price!
Peace...
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Prices are already high here .... $60+ for an eight of weed, $100+ for a gram of coke, etc. Extra commission will only raise prices for the buyers.
Don't get greedy SR. If it's working, why ruin a good thing?
Look what happened with Netflix. They raised their fees and people bailed because they felt slighted.
Bad idea.
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I'd advocate a 7.5% commission if it means the 3 mods split the extra .75% and SR gets his extra .5% then everyone's happy ...
IMHO, The mods should get a little something for helping out.
I'm postponing ALL orders untill after the "trial".
-RI
Edit: Methoxetamine mathematical FAILURE. ;)
Not once did I want to be compensated for my time and effort helping mod the forms. But, it takes a lot more time and effort than most people realize. Granted, I do this because of the good of the site, not to line my pockets, but if SR is going to be making a lot of money, then I agree, the mods should be compensated.
Trust me, im not trying to get paid for what I do. Its just when others try to justify to make more money and then there are some of us that DONATE ALL of our time and effort and all we see is a better site and community. To me, that is worth a lot... Again, I am glad to be apart of SR and will continue to donate my time regardless on the decisions that are made, but It just crossed my mind that there are a few of us that dont receive a dime for all of our efforts. (Nor do we ask for it)
BUT A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE THAT DONATE TO U... IT MEANS A LOT!!! I CAN SAY FOR ALL MODS THAT WE REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT AND A HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL!! EVEN IF ITS NOT MONEY, JUST A THANK YOU NOTE IS GREAT!!!
B
I think it's a great idea if the mods to get points. You guys do so much, and give great advice and reality checks.
You guys should always have coins in your accounts. I don't mind paying the extra commission to take acre of SR staff,
and to harden to site against exploits and snooping.
BTW. I don't think the commission will EVER scare buyers away.
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What makes me wonder is why these messages were not PGP signed with SRs key. I sent a message asking for him to send that message, signed, but have yet to get a reply.
I feel the impression in the thread that SR might have upset many. SR is being courteous as it is their site, they can change the rules however they want - yet they are asking what the vendors think... they haven't increased the commissions yet. So if we look at the situation objectively, SR is still "green".
Again, from an objective point of view, vendors are not directly affected - unless transaction volume actually decreases. If the commission is higher, we just raise our prices and profit the same. Now if these prices happen to decrease the volume, then the we are affected. What SR is asking is for a test run to see if it actually affects the volume.
I vote for very small increase in commissions. I also vote for some distribution of these commissions to the community, e.g. the administrators of the forum. Eventually we can have some system where the most helpful users receive a pot every week/month. This should motivate people to be kind and helpful in the forums :) This is however from a sellers point of view. It would be interesting to see a poll where buyers got to respond, "would you still buy as much if the prices increased x%?"
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its nice sounding that it is only used when the customer gets the product, but many people will just send pm's to vendors they trust and instead pay them an extra 12% for more more product, or try to get a 12% discount. It will jack up prices for vendors and lead people to just find good vendors and by pass the system completely(leaving SR with 0%). Like someone said with netflicks, when people feel they are being over charged they will try to cheat the system. I think the current system is working but I do not know all of the costs associated with running this site. It i a good service and people are willing to pay for it. I am down for whatever needs to happen to ensure we are all safe and business continues as usual
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Maybe idea about fixed % commission but with max $ amount. Something like $15 maximum per transaction no matter of price listed.
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I'm fine with paying more than I am right now. I get better deals here even after commission than I've found anywhere else. You guys fucked up by starting the commission out so low, if you'd started out at 13% nobody would be bitching at this point.
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many people will just send pm's to vendors they trust and instead pay them an extra 12% for more more product, or try to get a 12% discount. It will jack up prices for vendors and lead people to just find good vendors and by pass the system completely(leaving SR with 0%).
two thumbs up !
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I wonder how much money SR makes in a day. More than 50'000 users, a 5 or 6% tax on every transaction, sellers paying 150$ for an account...My guess is that SR must be fucking wealthy by now. Seriously.
I can only see GREED here.
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Hogwash!
I have always been a strong advocate of using the escrow system not only for safety reasons but because it is fair that SR should be compensated for their efforts. Without them, this wouldn't be possible. But bloody hell 12.5%!? If you really want anyone to support this, why not explain exactly why on earth you need to double your commission? If there is a logical reason that stands the test of fairness then you have my support. As it stands right now, raising it to 12.5% is outrageous.
Regardless of whether or not your revenue drops, you will have lost the good will of customers and sellers. Out-of-escrow transactions will increase by a large amount. This increase in out-of-escrow transactions will give scammers more of an incentive to buy an account and scam. The world will probably come to an end.. perhaps?
Consider your other options:
Charge a 6.25% + $1.50 base fee
Charge 8.25% (on everything up to $200) + $1.50 base fee. This will give people a reason to buy and sell larger quantities!
Please reconsider this increase and let the members help you decide. If you (SR) create a poll in this forum with various options as to increasing your commission and let the members vote, at least you will have SOME people on your side.
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^^ Did you steal that Lily Tomlin quote from me? ;)
I've had this quote up since I became a member, which was before you.
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I have seen that quote on tons of pm's on a lot of different sites. In fact, I was going to use it until I saw it used by a lot of people.
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What makes me wonder is why these messages were not PGP signed with SRs key.
Wait, so the message wasn't signed by SR? That's very concerning, a message like that should be signed. He also hasn't been around the forums at all lately. I'm not normally the overly paranoid type, but if he's been compromised that gives LE the ability to do correlation attacks.
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What makes me wonder is why these messages were not PGP signed with SRs key.
Wait, so the message wasn't signed by SR? That's very concerning, a message like that should be signed. He also hasn't been around the forums at all lately. I'm not normally the overly paranoid type, but if he's been compromised that gives LE the ability to do correlation attacks.
Signed message is needed here in this forum but not in SR marker where you can see at username user #1 (Silk Road) is a actual sender.
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What makes me wonder is why these messages were not PGP signed with SRs key.
Wait, so the message wasn't signed by SR? That's very concerning, a message like that should be signed. He also hasn't been around the forums at all lately. I'm not normally the overly paranoid type, but if he's been compromised that gives LE the ability to do correlation attacks.
Signed message is needed here in this forum but not in SR marker where you can see at username user #1 (Silk Road) is a actual sender.
That only means that it was sent by his SR account, not necessarily by him. If SR were to be compromised someone else could control the account. Of course if SR gives up his private key or has it inadequately protected even a signed message means nothing.
I'm just nervous because this whole situation seems out of the ordinary, in my (limited) experience SR posts these things to the forum. The fact that he proposed what would obviously be a controversial change and has been completely absent from the forums is very strange to say the least.
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I do not know are you a vendor or not but SR informed all vendors by pm that change in SR fee will NOT start.
Instead he wanted from vendors to fill a survey.
I do not know what LE would have from changing a SR fee - its a nonsense!
Also with this poll and issue for vendors only he does not need to discuss it here.
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Yes, I'm aware that the increase will not take place. I'm pointing out that all his messages should be signed, not just the ones on the forum. Using the logic you used before we could say he didn't need to sign messages on the forum either because we can see they are posted by Silk_Road. The point of signing the message in both places is in case him or his account is compromised in some way.
You're right about there being no good reason for LE to say the fee was increasing, other than maybe to create discontent.
This isn't really a vendor only issue either, buyers will be the ones that end up paying for any increase in commission, so I would say it's a buyer and seller issue.
I'm also not just talking about this thread, he's been absent in the thread about security vulnerabilities too, and he should definitely be talking about that.
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Well, I am against signing messages. That is a prove of who an author is and if its considered as evidence.
Pgp encrypted message from somebody is not as recipient has no control who can use his public key.
Signed message might be useful on forums other then here or sr market.
As SR send pm to all vendors and not to buyers - he informed vendors and ask vendors for opinions. Vendor can decrese item price so buyer dont have to pay it.
Its a vendor issue. Survey is sent to vendors and not to buyers.
People on other threads tend to overeact. Security issue in search mode is fixed. Rumors lead nowhere and its better to sr and members to kept this out of forums!
That info can use LE or other if its published here while SR have not time to fix it. How can somebody do that? To brag? And what is really his itentions?
If somebody is really worried, the he does not need to use sr - simple.
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Well, I am against signing messages. That is a prove of who an author is and if its considered as evidence.
Pgp encrypted message from somebody is not as recipient has no control who can use his public key.
That's interesting, I've never heard that before. As far as I was aware a message didn't need to be signed to be admissible in court, I thought regular emails were used as evidence quite regularly.
Vendor can decrese item price so buyer dont have to pay it.
Yes, they can, but very few will. Just like anything the ultimate cost will be passed on to the end consumer. That's the way it should be, I don't my vendors struggling to get by because they had to cut their profit margins.
People on other threads tend to overeact. Security issue in search mode is fixed. Rumors lead nowhere and its better to sr and members to kept this out of forums!
That info can use LE or other if its published here while SR have not time to fix it. How can somebody do that? To brag? And what is really his itentions?
If somebody is really worried, the he does not need to use sr - simple.
I very strongly disagree. It should be publicly disclosed, but not until it's been fixed. XSS and SQL injection vulnerabilities are the most basic of exploits. If those exist other problems are there also and the next person to find them may not be as kind to us as LookBehindYou was. Like it or not we put ourselves at risk by using the SR, even though we can minimize that by being smart. That's really a discussion for the other thread though.
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I agree with you to some extent. Signing message is like signing docs in reality. It should be avoided.
There is no security breach in SR. No site is perfect and there is always something what can be made better and more safe.
But in this area/bussines less info reagarding specifics published by anyone what we can not confirm and on speculate is better then more published data.
I do not know who that member is..neither do you. How we can know really what that is all about? All what we need to know is that all issues/bug will be fixed imidatelly.
But to publish that info here before issue were solved really disturb me.
Signing pm was advice when sr was down (this forum was not exist) and only info about news were on other places all over internet.
As about is this a vendor or sellers issue I was only saying what SR did. He informed vendors because this place offer service to them and vendor pay that service.
Fact is buyer pay really that or not is irelevant.
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No, I don't know who that person is, but I do think they are right. In my experience (and I do have some) if a website hasn't secured against the basics they haven't secured against more advanced attacks either. So while I can't be absolutely certain that there are other problems, I would bet all my money on it. Knowing that bugs will be fixed immediately (after SR finds out about them) isn't enough for me because by that time it can be too late. I'd like to know that there is a developer working on it that knows about security. I know all sites have problems, but these particular problems shouldn't be had anymore, they're just too basic.
As far as I know he did wait until the issues were fixed to say what they were, if he didn't that's really not OK. I am still glad he reported them though because I had been thinking that the SR site was pretty secure; now I'll be taking even more precautions.
But in this area/bussines less info reagarding specifics published by anyone what we can not confirm and on speculate is better then more published data.
I agree with you, but that's what's called "security through obscurity", and you should never rely on it.
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many people will just send pm's to vendors they trust and instead pay them an extra 12% for more more product, or try to get a 12% discount. It will jack up prices for vendors and lead people to just find good vendors and by pass the system completely(leaving SR with 0%).
two thumbs up !
+1
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^^ Did you steal that Lily Tomlin quote from me? ;)
I've had this quote up since I became a member, which was before you.
LOLZ @ Fred for trying to corner exclusive rights on words attributed to someone else. Its a free world man...
Make something original and then complain.... you just found your message board soul mate, and you shot them down.
Anyhow, back to the point...
I ALWAYS weigh the price/vs the convenience and security of SR. If I see the price is way beyond the local price, well, sketchy dealer here I come. Generally speaking about drugs in general, when the price of any drug goes too high, people look for either another supply, or an alternate drug. That's why rich people snort coke, and poor people sniff glue. Thank god for the magic middle.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I haven't read every word of this thread, but hopefully my follow up messages and explanations were posted as well. Please also see my reply to the thread about security vulnerabilities because I think that was brought up in this thread too.
Basically all I want to say is that my intentions are true and I didn't expect so much backlash from proposing an experiment. I made it very clear that if any negative consequences were to arise we would roll it back immediately. Contrary to popular belief I am not a millionaire and just 4 months ago, our revenue was less than $3k/month! Before that, I worked for more than a year on this project and made next to nothing, not knowing if it would even work and taking substantial personal risk. Only now are we able to start expanding as an enterprise and increased revenue would make that much easier. Everyone working for Silk Road does so at below market wages for their level of talent and we make zero profit. We are in our infant stages of growth and the faster we can mature, the better chance we have of withstanding the onslaught that WILL eventually come.
We've drawn a line in the sand and are staring down our enemies. Like it or not, if you are participating here, you are standing on that line with us. This is not about making money. This is about winning a war. Look how far we've come in 8 short months. We are JUST getting started.
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We do understand SR's idea of increasing the revenue to promote the growth even faster, but we do have to say that the increase is relatively steep in such a short time. We will be on the same line with SR on this and keep up doing our best to provide our clients needs. Though our vision would be more like to ask an extra % for several services, like insurance, escrow and so on. 5% for escrow, 5% extra for insurance and such, as an example of course. Anyhow we will see how it goes.
Regards,
sesampino
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I already wrote such a thing in the other thread, but I want to apologize again. I completely underestimated SRs motivation and dedication. Go on and know that I will be with you in this fight!
Much love, and take care everybody. We will win. Freedom.
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This is about winning a war.
I was locked in a cage for 4 years and spent 6 years on house arrest (the house arrest caused me the most suffering surprisingly). 12% is a low price to pay for freedom.
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Like anything else, you pay for quality, selection, or convenience. Those who do not wish to pay-there are street corners all over America where you can attempt to get a better deal.
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I have a suggestion for another experiment:
If you dont have money for a project, start a thread explaining the project including its costs and collect donations. People are usually more willing to pay if they know for what. Many projects work this way ;)
I haven't read every word of this thread, but hopefully my follow up messages and explanations were posted as well. Please also see my reply to the thread about security vulnerabilities because I think that was brought up in this thread too.
Basically all I want to say is that my intentions are true and I didn't expect so much backlash from proposing an experiment. I made it very clear that if any negative consequences were to arise we would roll it back immediately. Contrary to popular belief I am not a millionaire and just 4 months ago, our revenue was less than $3k/month! Before that, I worked for more than a year on this project and made next to nothing, not knowing if it would even work and taking substantial personal risk. Only now are we able to start expanding as an enterprise and increased revenue would make that much easier. Everyone working for Silk Road does so at below market wages for their level of talent and we make zero profit. We are in our infant stages of growth and the faster we can mature, the better chance we have of withstanding the onslaught that WILL eventually come.
We've drawn a line in the sand and are staring down our enemies. Like it or not, if you are participating here, you are standing on that line with us. This is not about making money. This is about winning a war. Look how far we've come in 8 short months. We are JUST getting started.
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People seriously stop moaning like a bunch of little bitches about the increase.
This shows that most of you just want to get high like a bunch of losers & vendors that just want to make money.
Personally i think we should kiss the feet of mister SR everyday for providing this wonderful website & taking the risk that he is taking by having this site in the air.
And if you do not like the policy of this website FUCK OFF!!! seriously i am so sick of all this moaning and stupid comparisons to Ebay and Amazon and who knows what not.
We are fighting a fight here it's more then just filling up your pockets with money & getting high.
And you are all welcome to go out to the streets and buy your drugs there and who knows you'll get a bullet between your eyes or get busted by some undercover LE.
Stop with this childish behavior and let's focus on keeping that line in the sand as deep as possible so we can continue to fight against our so called "free world".
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People seriously stop moaning like a bunch of little bitches about the increase.
This shows that most of you just want to get high like a bunch of losers & vendors that just want to make money.
Personally i think we should kiss the feet of mister SR everyday for providing this wonderful website & taking the risk that he is taking by having this site in the air.
And if you do not like the policy of this website FUCK OFF!!! seriously i am so sick of all this moaning and stupid comparisons to Ebay and Amazon and who knows what not.
We are fighting a fight here it's more then just filling up your pockets with money & getting high.
And you are all welcome to go out to the streets and buy your drugs there and who knows you'll get a bullet between your eyes or get busted by some undercover LE.
Stop with this childish behavior and let's focus on keeping that line in the sand as deep as possible so we can continue to fight against our so called "free world".
ok shill
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hi silkroad Forum members and Admins,
I'm against the raise of the silkroad fee transaction to Vendors because i have to many cost issues.
Example:
Product price listed on silkroad: 20$
Buy in whole price from supplier:5 $
Package Cost :2 $
Shipment cost:3 $
Refund risk/Cost 20%:4 $ (this can be more because scammers)
Silkroad Fee 5%:1 $
Cashout/Exchange Fee 10%: 2 $
Profit:3$
Greets DutchShop,
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hi silkroad Forum members and Admins,
EUREKA!!!!!I have a Solution for SilkRoad ;) :) :).This is a WIN WIN WIN CONCEPT/IDEA.
Every Person (Buyer) most pay for opening an Buy account (Fee) like 2 btc ($10)and this keep Scammers Away.
I will Give example,to Enter Silkroad u have 2 different account.This also covers the cost to run this site.
1)Silkroad View Account:
* U can enter and view but cant order.
* Account is Free.
* No P.M. to Vendors
)Silkroad Buy Account:
* U can enter and order.
* Account is 2 bitcoins ($10).
* P.M. to Vendors
* 1 - 9 orders : Refund 25% max.
* 10- 24 orders : Refund 50% max.
* 25 - < :Refund 100% Max up to Vendor.
Beside that u can raise also the New Vendor/Sellers Account ($150) up to $300.
Vendor Account:
- Silkroad product/transaction Fee: 5 a 6.25% raise up to max 7%
Think about it ;) This will solve the most problems and keep this site smooth running.
Win situation for:
Silkroad got his funds to stay safe and smooth (the data of /double silk road accounts decrease).
Vendors get seriously buyers and lowers there prices.
Buyers get seriously good products for lower prices.
Who likes this concept and idea plz Reply!!!!
Greets DutchShop,
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only if old members won't have to pay! ::)
on a more serious note.. that's double edged sword too. people will see joining fee, and that commission percentage is somewhat hidden from the buyer. People might get even more pissed off about having to pay just for ability to buy stuff.
btw, do the sellers really get scammed often?
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Hi,
Older members who are here more then 3 months have the right get the buyers account for free because they deserve the credits that silkroad exist.
What is 2 bitcoins fee ($ 10) for to join an exclusive anonymous site like this.In other branches if you want an exclusive service you must pay a fee for it (Disco,Airlines,Creditcards,Rotary Clubs..etc).The Site Silkroad is an Exclusieve Service not more and not less.
Example:
If i go to an Disco i must pay entry at the door to buy drinks or other stuff (security,wc) and this how i see it.
People are already pissed off the high vendor prices on silkroad.Most Vendors calculated there prices for the shipment/refund/scammers risks and silkroad fee's here at silkroad.
If a buyer see that the item listed product become lower/cheaper then they happy will pay for the 2 bitcoins fee ($ 10) once.
Yes i got Manny times scammed (Rate scammed is 1/5 here on silkroad) with customer who claim they didn't get the product so they hope for a 50% / 100% refund or resend.
My shipment stealth is one of the best you can get here on silkroad no doubt about it (check my feedback).
Other is that they really let you wait for finishing the transaction and that pisses of also the vendors here.
Bottom of line is if this idea get accepted i lower my price with minimal 15 % or more.
In one line the Vendors get the hits here and not the buyers.
Greets DutchShop,
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LAZY and GREEDY
if SR wants more money then increase number of transactions (i.e. customers & sellers) not commission.
5% is more than enough for a basic un-hedged transaction.
but if sr does increase commission, i think that a number of competitor sites would open (and those that exist increase in market share), so every cloud has a silver lining ;)
--fruity
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LAZY and GREEDY
if SR wants more money then increase number of transactions (i.e. customers & sellers) not commission.
what you have suggested has been suggested before, but SR is a seller and the last thing he wants is to allow prices to be driven down by the REAL competition of many more sellers. Something he publicly supports, but privately despises, and all his actions equate to being against it.
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LAZY and GREEDY
if SR wants more money then increase number of transactions (i.e. customers & sellers) not commission.
what you have suggested has been suggested before, but SR is a seller and the last thing he wants is to allow prices to be driven down by the REAL competition of many more sellers. Something he publicly supports, but privately despises, and all his actions equate to being against it.
Harsh!
I feel a revolution coming on...
But in all fairness, he DIDN'T take action on the 12.5%. It still fucked me though... I immediately invested in RL dealers instead of getting the things I really wanted on SR. Oh well :/ I'll flip all this shit eventually.
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Hey Rapid Improvement, I'm getting some dem pcp analogues...payback time. :P
Ooops this isn't a PM.
@_@
nomad bloodbath
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Nice! What kind?
I've had my eyes On HugoReyes 4-meo! I want to get a sample gram (not for $75 bucks though!) and get my MXE junky friends to try it too and see if we dig it. It's about the same price as MXE if I go for the 65 grams. The yellow of his 4-meo is slightly sketch but I'm not really a bitch when it comes to that kind of shit as long as it performs.
-RI
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of you provide the possibility to agree on a refund percentage before going into escrow, provide an API to the interface so we can stop overloading the server and use our own sofware fo rlabelling and order processing, would help the load on the servers as well as the profitability of vendors due to better integrated backend software. No i believe everybody is developing their own more or less.
Perhaps an SLA and i think the 12.50 can work. Otherwise, i'm not too sure... just my opinion though
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Your opinion is just slightly over a year too late.
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I have been a buyer for some time, thinking of selling. I read thru a bunch of the comments posted, and I have to agree that the instant hike is the wrong "road" to go down. I think a gradual trial increase is more realistic. As thinking about becoming a seller, doing some math, the margin with the new rate makes it nearly a wash. (I know it is intrinsicly related to the product on how much markup can be tolerated, but being a little guy, I couldn't push the volumes the big guys do). I hate to say it, but with that kind of %, I can't compete realistically, let alone profit to make it work the work/risk. SR needs to grow, and to do so needs to have new sellers/wares to be sold. It's a cycle that will continue, but we need to keep a fine balance. If new sellers don't sign up, then where does the growth come from?
I know SR needs to fund itself, expand, secure, and evolve, but an instant double increase seems a little extreme. Reading the comments from others, I think the message is being sent. SR does, just like every big site out there, has to evolve. The advantage SR holds, is that the community as a whole should provide input to steer it in the right direction.
Hopefully the community will provide a loud enough voice to be heard on this!
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Is this actaully happening, or a rumour?
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How keynsian. Sellers will end up lowering prices, so this amounts to a tax. I highly doubt there is a single buyer who has ever thought 'hm, if only sellers had to pay more taxes on their items, I might be more willing to trust them'; apart from sellers I doubt many of the buyers know or care about the SR fee at all.
You're right, I neither knew nor cared about the SR commission. I think I remember the last announcement, but didn't pay much attention then either.
What I do know, is that Tryptamine above has rightfully noted, I will refuse to be lumped with this price increase. If my regular vendors don't drop their prices, I'll move on to the next vendor - there's more than enough vendors out there right now that provide similar products and services for this not to be a problem.
Simple.
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Sometimes I wonder about you guys....
This post is OVER A YEAR OLD.
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lol i thought it was some kind of new announcement with all the new comments
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this thread is out of date, locking...