Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: muchachos on August 03, 2011, 06:31 pm
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Hi,
Hypothetical question:
If an order doesn't arrive from a reputable seller, I presume any offer of a refund of the escrow amount is entirely at the discretion of the seller.
Is it reasonable for a buyer to expect a refund of any of the amount? Or should the buyer accept 100% of the risk of packages being intercepted or lost?
Forgive me, but I'm pretty new to this and a forum search turned up nothing...
Thanks
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Both of you can make proposal for mutual resolution. If you can not then sr admin will sort thing out based on your info and data.
Anyhow, I as a vendor choose a full refund and send item again. I must trust my buyers and it must go both way.
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Established sellers tend to have more resources and more options but each vendor has their own policy so you should contact them first. Most vendor value feedback and customer loyalty more than a single sale. Vendors also have to watch out for inexperienced or scam buyers which makes them wary. Again, experienced vendors are good and spotting these so they are less of an issue.
Non deliveries between an established vendor and an informed buyer are very very rare, way way less than 1%. It just does not happen unless someone makes a mistake.
If you are unhappy with the vendor's resolution you have the option of having Silk mediate the dispute. Before bringing in Silk, I suggest posting on the forums if you are unable to reach an understanding with the vendor.
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Just curious about people's thoughts on failure rates from US -> EU?
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Both of you can make proposal for mutual resolution. If you can not then sr admin will sort thing out based on your info and data.
Anyhow, I as a vendor choose a full refund and send item again. I must trust my buyers and it must go both way.
+1 model ethic
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Both of you can make proposal for mutual resolution. If you can not then sr admin will sort thing out based on your info and data.
Anyhow, I as a vendor choose a full refund and send item again. I must trust my buyers and it must go both way.
+2
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This is an interesting topic. I recently placed an order for 8 grams of some of the headiest nug I've seen in my life. It did honestly cross my mind that it would be possible to tell the seller it never arrived, then get another 8 grams. But I would never actually do that. People on SR need to realize that this is a community, not an infinite resource for rare and illicit things that you can use and abuse as you wish. By providing me with this beautiful 8g of nug, the seller is doing me and my lungs a huge favor. Why would I want to ruin his day?
RESPECT :D
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Experienced vendors have a delivery rate way over 99%. Any non delivery claim stands out and gets investigated.
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Experienced vendors have a delivery rate way over 99%. Any non delivery claim stands out and gets investigated.
Yep. Please, realize that most of us have 99% delivery stats. So if you say it didn't come we take it very seriously.
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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Any legit vendor would worry more about the package than the money. I think communication is key. If the vendor has an open dialogue then you shouldn't worry (most of the time). We all have to remember that the post office has its issues and doesn't deliver 100 percent of the time. I will do what ever it takes to make the customer happy (within reason) refund, replacement, etc. Each transaction is unique, there isn't one universal solution that would fit everyone.
Also, I'm not going to be taken advantage of either. If a package said it was undeliverable because they wouldn't deliver it because of a false name/bad address then I May have a different stand. Its the sellers responsibility to package it properly but its also the buyers responsibility to use an address/name that he is 100 percent certain that item will be delivered. I have already had one customer send me an address that was off by a lot. When I told him that I do delivery confirmation and just copy and paste the address that is given to me on the label, he magically corrected it to the right address. Its not hard for a vendor to put the address in google maps to make sure its valid.
But im with mseller. If a legit package doesn't show, Im going to give the buyer options. resend (if I can) refund or wait til I reload (which I make it worth their while)
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I recently had a usps shipment go almost to the resolution cutoff, WTF.
I was already in discussion with the buyer on a resolution when it arrived. Honesty in buyers is comforting.
As a seller I know I sent it so i have to assume scam. My preferred resolution is that they order again and we split the ' missing ' one.
I also offer discounts for repeat buyers.
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It's comforting to see our experienced established sellers comment in this thread. Agree 100% with the comment about being more concerned with the shipping method rather than the missing product. However many of the newer vendors are operating with tighter margins because they are simply buying off the street and reselling.
Personally I don't ask for free samples as I live by the adage nothing in life is free. However I do test a vendor I have never dealt with before by making my first transaction small enough so if it does get lost, or the vendor is a scammer, I'm not left struggling to pay the rent. In my opinion if a seller hasn't dealt with a buyer before and gets a sample size order, they should go through hedged escrow to make sure they have the right strategy to ship to that client and the buyer has implemented the right delivery security.
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Experienced vendors have a delivery rate way over 99%.
I don't anymore. The size and scope of intercepted packages went way beyond normal. If you're a seller and you haven't had LE buy up product, prepare for it.
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MisterDank - That makes no sense. If LE was going to "buy up and intercept" a bunch of drugs from you, so as they go undelivered, I'm sure you wouldn't be here able to be writing on the forum about it. It might be one or two, then a large enough quantity (only if they finally have figured out you/your location, which you would now be raided).
There's no way for them to detect seller information from having a bunch of packages sent to a mass number of separate shipments. IT would make more sense that the LE is on the SELLER side, and collecting buyer address information.
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@MisterDank.
I have only had one package with trouble, and it had a sticker on it that said "package was opened and resealed by Canada Post" - this was during the strike and I'm pretty sure a bunch of CP employees were sitting around in a depot rifling through mail to see if there was anything valuable in there. Everything else I used to ship was intact, just the product was gone. No trouble whatsoever to the buyer, not even a letter or anything, or even a notification that anything was removed.
If LE were actually buying your stuff up they would want you to get complacent and keep shipping it to them, hoping you would make a mistake and leave some prints or hair in there so they can run you. MAYBE there would be some kind of strategy for buying up vendor's stuff and claiming non-receipt, but I think the former is way more likely.
If you are having orders not arrive, it's either because you have some dickless fuck trying to scam you of your hard-earned product, or you need to re-evaluate your shipping methods (especially if this is happening in different parts of the country).
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^ dickless fucks ^ +1
with no buyer info we are at the mercy of said fucks.
I couldn't find any info on lost parcel % but mine runs about 10% and they all say the same thing "i ordered from other venders at the same time and they all arrived but yours"
granted usps has been very inconsistent and has probably lost a few.
WE NEED BUYER FEEDBACK
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WE NEED BUYER FEEDBACK
Couldn't a buyer just make another account if they receive bad feedback?
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Yep, they can, thats why they have to implement something other than just buyer feedback. Like they started to charge for vendors accounts. I believe that they need to not charge for buyers accounts, but they have to spend at least 50 bitcoins from one account before they are allowed to open up another account. That way, they would be forced to keep the same account for at least a few purchases.
I think thats the best answer..... or heck make it 100 bitcoins. there really shouldn't be a reason to be changing accounts so often... if for some reason you do, leave it up to SR to make that decision.
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Yep, they can, thats why they have to implement something other than just buyer feedback. Like they started to charge for vendors accounts. I believe that they need to not charge for buyers accounts, but they have to spend at least 50 bitcoins from one account before they are allowed to open up another account. That way, they would be forced to keep the same account for at least a few purchases.
I think thats the best answer..... or heck make it 100 bitcoins. there really shouldn't be a reason to be changing accounts so often... if for some reason you do, leave it up to SR to make that decision.
It can't be done, thanks to TOR. SR have no way to identify whether a user is a newcomer or a scammer registering another account. That is the way I see it can work:
SR implements user feedback system which influences the price of the stuff. So every new user have to pay for example 10% more coins untill he get enough rating. It can be one or two succesful transactions, or something alike. Then every new user will have a reason to be as smart as possible not to screw up the first trades, and afterwards to keep his account with him. May be sellers can even offer futher discounts for old and trustworthy customers with high feedback level. The scammers will still exist, but those 10% they byte off the pie would be compensated with newbie price policy.
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Well, if you were forced to deposit 50 bitcoins (or whatever number) into a buyers account and there was no way to transfer that money to another account. It would have to be used for purchases. So, yes, a scammer could make a lot of accounts, but its going to cost him a lot to do so....
Or heck make it 20 bitcoins. Thats only a couple hundred bucks. Then after they have spent that money that can then do peer to peer transfers, etc. It wont stop people from opening up new accounts, but it will slow down the scammers, thats for sure.. That way vendors could say, if you have less than 10 successful transactions, your items are limited to 1 pill. 20 transactions up to 10, 30 or more unlimited. Im just spitballing, but that way, it doesn't cost the buyer a penny to join yet he needs bitcoins to purchase.
If I were a new buyer, I wouldn't mind if I had to deposit 200 bucks, hell, you need that much to make just a couple of transactions, some not even one...
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I agree with the notion that a user should have to complete a certain number or value of transactions before they can withdraw or transfer. This would stop the scam>scam>new account racket. Sucks that we have to go to that extreme but it is what it is. As with anything that is good (ie silk road) someone will come along and fuck it up for everyone else by trying to hustle and scam for more than his fair share.
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How very selfish and self-centered of someone to come and utilize this innovative, relatively safe method of being able to enjoy your drug of choice, for the simple purpose of stealing (scamming) someone. People wonder why drugs and those who use them, have such a bad reputation in this world, and this is, in my opinion, one of the very specific reasons.
Can't you just enjoy the fact that you have an opportunity to now purchase something which used to be a relative paranoiac nightmare on the street? I realize scammers/hackers who don't use drugs do exist, but the fact that they come here and fuck it up for the rest of us, who DON'T act like selfish douche-twats, pisses me off.
For those of you fuckwads who DO that shit, and destroy the desire of reputable seller's willingness to come here, Karma is a Son-of-a-Bitch.
Sorry for the sailor-talk today.
Thanks for flying.
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How very selfish and self-centered of someone to come and utilize this innovative, relatively safe method of being able to enjoy your drug of choice, for the simple purpose of stealing (scamming) someone. People wonder why drugs and those who use them, have such a bad reputation in this world, and this is, in my opinion, one of the very specific reasons.
Can't you just enjoy the fact that you have an opportunity to now purchase something which used to be a relative paranoiac nightmare on the street? I realize scammers/hackers who don't use drugs do exist, but the fact that they come here and fuck it up for the rest of us, who DON'T act like selfish douche-twats, pisses me off.
For those of you fuckwads who DO that shit, and destroy the desire of reputable seller's willingness to come here, Karma is a Son-of-a-Bitch.
Sorry for the sailor-talk today.
Thanks for flying.
I think I just had 2 buyers scam me out of about $400 in product while I was away on vacation - I specifically asked them to post resolution extension requests if they hadn's received by the time auto-finalize was close (and also PM'd SR about this before I left, but they 100% refunded them while I was away and had no say). When I can track down thier usernames I am definitely starting a "do not sell to X" forum topic because I am pretty pissed about this. My feedback is now hammered as well.
Buyers need some form of accountability on here. Period.
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I think I just had 2 buyers scam me out of about $400 in product while I was away on vacation - I specifically asked them to post resolution extension requests if they hadn's received by the time auto-finalize was close (and also PM'd SR about this before I left, but they 100% refunded them while I was away and had no say
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Honestly, if I were a seller, and 2 people were receiving $400 worth of product, I would send with delivery confirmation (not sig required, but deliv confirmation). I'd buy a wig, or some getup and risk the cameras and go to a post office where they didn't know me.
I'm just saying, if you're selling that much, you've GOT To have some insurance for yourself, until SR makes is possible. And I also agree, that sellers should be able to respond to the bullshit "never received product" feedback.
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^I thought I DID have insurance. I messaged SR before I left to let him know that I would be away, that i had messaged all of my in-transit orders but hadn't heard back from them, so if any of them disputed to just extend until today (aug 21).
Unfortunately SR just 100% refunded the ones who complained while I was away, and I got horrible feedback from them even though I got a 100% refund and they are most likely smoking/eating my stuff this very morning.
I'm pretty much at the point where I'm going to stop selling anything in-escrow over 1/4 oz so I'm not so exposed. I have done nothing but bend over backwards for my customers since I got on here and that's a kick in the grapes to get back and see that.
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If you are a seller, selling to someone whom you haven't had numerous successful transactions with, and the product you're sending is worth over $50, I would consider it worth my while to send it with delivery confirmation (and not even necessarily charge them the extra $2 for it.) Fuck, put on a mustache and drive to a different post-office. Just sayin, if scammers know this is happening across the board with sellers, they'll be less likely to try and fuck the good ones.
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Hello everyone,
I'm a new seller on the road. I've already had a couple people send me messages trying to get me to accept payment other than BTC, such as Paypal and debit cards. These seem like obvious scams but, the point is, if buyers had some kind of feedback rating, like on ebay, sellers could make better choices about how they deal with buyers. There isn't anyway I can send someone an oz of the finest bud known to humanity, without some assurance I won't be getting bent over... metaphorically speaking :)
Since I began looking at the road as an option to share my bud with the world, I've noticed a very large growth in the community (as an observer). It makes me a little sad to see the changes in the user base that come with wider awareness of a service like SR.
That is, without proper mechanisms to handle a more general user base. I am referring to the scam artists that inevitably smell an opportunity to rip off those with good intentions.
I hope some mechanisms get put in place to help support the growth of this community that I feel has enjoyed such a high bar of entry in the past.
Truly yours
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First, welcome aboard Canna Grrrl, most of the people here are honest buyers and sellers of recreational substances. And you will enjoy working with them. :)
That said, the very nasty, very small minority are a group of dedicated scammers who work very hard to discrupt the lives of the reputable sellers who work here and, in fact, work very hard for their BTC.
As a buyer I want to purchase my product for the lowest possible price. I want my seller to make a decent profit so it's feasible for him to continue to give me good service. I want SR to make his fee because I want him to keep SR marketplace bulletproof and constantly improve the features of the site and the forums.
I really believe it's time for the HONEST buyers and sellers to unite and make a concerted appeal to SR for the buyers feedback feature. I've sent him two pm's regarding this issue in the last month and I would recommend that every person who reads this thread and feels similarly do the same thing. Past experience has shown that he responds very quickly once he knows exactly what is desired by the community as a whole.
Let's get this thing DONE. There's been enough talk about it already... 8)
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I received a response regarding buyers feed back. SR says its the first thing on their to do list/priority list. Im sure it won't be a cure all, whatever they come up with, but at least it will be a first step...