Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: LysanderSpooner on July 28, 2011, 12:49 pm
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Hey guys, this is a bit convoluted but I'm not sure what should be the correct resolution in this situation as I'm kind of suspicious I'm being scammed but I don't know how the SR admins would rule if they had to ultimately decide. Here's the order of events.
1) Buyer messages me out of the blue asking to buy 500 valiums, a larger order than I've taken before. I offer for 29btc he accepts and asks specifically, in two separate messages, for international tracking (he lives outside of the UK) and proof of postage. Normally I would just send regular mail but he asked for tracking if possible.
2) I went to post item but international tracking was extremely expensive, the next cheapest option was international signed for, which I purchased instead. Tracking would also include signing for at the end, but as it was way too expensive (£50) this seemed like 2nd best option.
3) I informed him it had been sent (international signed for) and he immediately (and I mean within minutes) stated I had to retrieve the package because there was no way he could sign for the parcel as he was using fake name + mailbox and he wasn't going to sign for illegal drugs. I told him it was too late as it was already sent (which he knew). He said it was his fault that he hadn't told me he was asking it to be sent to a fake mailbox he couldn't sign at and so he'd take the financial loss. I offered to pay him back all of my profit (about 25%, as I wasn't making much on the deal) but he said it was okay, we could maybe deal again in the future. I urged him to consider signing for the package with a fake name as they don't check, he didn't seem keen but said he'd wait to see if he got lucky and they just put it in the mailbox without requiring a signature. I asked him to get back to me when he knew if it had either been dropped in or he'd got a letter saying they'd been and that the parcel was waiting at the depot.
4) He didn't get back to me when, a week or so later, as the item is about to auto-finalise, it gets taken to resolution. I email him asking how come he's taken it to resolution after he'd agreed to take the loss as it was his mistake (Again I did offer him originally a partial refund, but he declined). He said it had never arrived, I asked him whether he was looking for a partial refund. He then replied "Partial? It never even arrived and all my other mail has, how do I know you even sent it?" Implying he wanted a full refund, and (it seems to me) that I was dishonest.
5) This is when I told him I had the proof of postage which would show for sure I did send it on the day I said I did and to where he asked me to send. Then his tone changed and he says "oh well then it's obviously seized by customs then." And he proposed 50% refund. I countered that 25% refund is more fair because I have absolute proof I sent things my end (plus history of positive feeback) and yet he was about to try to get a 100% refund with the implication being I'm dishonest, yet when my honesty is proven I'm supposed to trust his honesty totally and give him an even 50/50 split. It seems to me that he has every incentive to claim it never arrived after making his initial mistake, and even that initial mistake might not be true, in retrospect it all seems a bit fishy.
My question to the board is am I being a dick here? Should I be insta giving up 50% and making a significant (for me anyway) loss on the whole exchange and taking his word for it that it never arrived even though he was claiming there was no way he was going to sign for it anyways? Item was packaged very discreetly and EU post very rarely gets seized, it's much, much, much more likely that it did arrive. Everything else I've ever sent has, and this is easily the weirdest trade I've ever been involved in. To be honest I feel kinda dirty even giving a 25% refund but then part of me wonders am I just being a bad seller thinking that way? I don't want to rip anybody off and throughout the process I've tried to help him as best I can but now I feel he's been playing me a bit.
All advice appreciated. Thanks!
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Has he ordered successfully from you before?
If not, it sounds scammy... who goes and orders that much without testing the waters first?!
I've never had customs get to any of my shipments within the EU, so I'm pretty sure it either arrived and he's trying to scam you - or it wasn't delivered because he gave a fake address. Either way: Not your fault and I'd refund no more than the profit you were going to make.
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You should have checked with the buyer before you chose an option that required signing for the package.
As a buyer, I would have paid a higher price to retain my anonymity. I would definitely not except a shipment
I had to sign for under any circumstances. I think it was poor judgement on your part. ::)
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Wait you choose the option of signature required?
Never do that.
You should have waited and re-priced the international shipping cost.
As far as a refund rate...hmmm.
You both fucked up the order.
Him using fake dox and you for requiring a signature.
This is gonna sound rough but 50/50 is what it looks like to me.
I know you don't want to hear that. It sux but experience gains knowledge.
Now you know why college costs so much. :D
Eager Beaver Syndrome will get you every time.
Sorry for you and this situation LysanderSpooner.
Hope this doesnt end your vending career.
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He asked for tracking, not a signing option.
There was a tracking service without signing option that you passed on.
It doesn't sound like a scam. You created your own vulnerability here.
You'll know if it was a scam—someone has to sign to get the package.
Why don't you extend to see if someone signs for the package?
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LysanderSpooner the mods will have nothing to do with your resolution, your plea will be with Silk Road himself.
I am almost certain there will be no 100% refund, present your case with tracking info photos and all the info you can possibly think of also link this thread to the Plea in the resolution section.Don't hesitant to change anything at any moment or to add stuff to your plea. Your proof of postage will allow you at least 50% of this resolution.
If you guys don't come to a resolution i'm not sure if either of you will be getting any of the btc, it's Silk Road's call.
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If you guys don't come to a resolution i'm not sure if either of you will be getting any of the btc, it's Silk Road's call.
Like I said I'm not 100% sure on Silk Road's part in the resolution.
Not even sure where to look for info.
If you want to play it smart PM Silk Road and ask him about the resolution guidelines and what happens if neither the vendor nor the buyer comes to a resolution...he'll get back to you within 12 hours.
This may or may not help you. Not much to look at but another Similar situation.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=1319.msg10736#msg10736
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I agree. I think you will be doing good to get 50 percent. When I have to send an overnight package, I always ask, with or without sig. Every time they say without. But, i want to cover my basses. Never assume anything. You should have pm'ed the buyer with your situation before you sent anything out.
Consider this an expensive lesson...Also, If I were in your shoes, but i would jump up and down with joy if I got half my money back...Not to be rude, but you hold at least 50 percent responsibility here, if not more..
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I must agree with the others, 50% is what I would do. Simple fact is you never put signing on. It says so EVERYWHERE on this forum.
Expensive lesson to learn. Sorry man :(
Peace,
DigitalAlch
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Both of you seem a little bit :P here.
2) I went to post item but international tracking was extremely expensive, the next cheapest option was international signed for, which I purchased instead. Tracking would also include signing for at the end, but as it was way too expensive (£50) this seemed like 2nd best option.
Royal Mail AirSure costs a whopping £5.30 over regular postage worldwide, less within the EU, and includes tracking, special handling (meaning 1 to 2 day earlier delivery to the U.S. usually) and delivery confirmation. NO signature required.
http://www2.royalmail.com/delivery/delivery-options-international/airsure/details
5) This is when I told him I had the proof of postage which would show for sure I did send it on the day I said I did and to where he asked me to send. Then his tone changed and he says "oh well then it's obviously seized by customs then."
If the parcel was sent to anywhere within the EU, or to the U.S., Canada, Japan, Australia or New Zealand, and it had been seized, and no immediate investiagation was to follow (i.e. controlled delivery, etc., not likely for what is a minor amount of contraband in the grand scheme of things), customs will forward the letter or parcel including all packaging, less any contraband, along with a letter stating that suspected contraband had been removed, and give the option of contacting them to appeal within 21 days, or the contraband may be destroyed. This is in line with international treaties on mail handling that they all subscribe to.
So yeah, you fucked up sending it the way you did, but I don't buy that it was seized by customs.
When a signed for item is sent to a box, the proprietor as a matter of course signs for it, and puts a note in the box to pick up the item at the counter. If the guy had ID good enough to rent a box, he's got ID good enough to pick up the package. At most private MB locations, just give them the card, and they'll get you to sign for it, no ID required, figuring that if you have the card from the box, you are the guy that rented the box.
Added link to Royal Mail AirSure
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Don't know about this one. My gut says it's the buyers fault and he's trying to scam. He seems to admit guilt here
He said it was his fault that he hadn't told me he was asking it to be sent to a fake mailbox he couldn't sign at and so he'd take the financial loss. I offered to pay him back all of my profit (about 25%, as I wasn't making much on the deal) but he said it was okay, we could maybe deal again in the future
To me, I'd be wanting 100% back.
But I don't sell here and Chronic is right, 50% is better than nothing. Only problem is this guy has being lying from the jump, how do you know he will even agree with 50%?
If I were selling here and that happened I would tell him I'd take the 50% and hope to god he wasn't just going lower and lower and lower after I said yes.
Kinda comes down to this unfortunatly.....when in Rome. You need to play ball here.
Don't take that the wrong way, I think, you deserve 100% if this kid said the things he said - but if I were you I wouldn't make it an issue since you dont have many people who agree with you here.
As far as commen sense goes you fucked up holmes. Shot the dude a 500 pack out of the blue? Ouch.
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Misrepresenting your method of shipment seems like a terribly bad idea. If it were me, I think I would be apologising profusely and offering a full refund (despite the large order size).
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Yeah, I think you got scammed as well, but the important thing is, did you learn something.
All in all, a cheaper lesson than it could have been.
Thoughts on publicly divulging the user name?
OK, I know your angry, and feel that as you were scammed, or possibly scammed, putting that name out there would be cathartic for you, and maybe even keep another vendor from getting scammed by the same person.
Also, it would be the absolute wrong thing to do.
A buyer has to know that no matter what, their information is sancrosant.
If he fucks your wife, steals your dog, drinks your beer and steals your money, that information was still entrusted to you, and the only way you show yourself deserving of that trust is to make sure that nary a shred of his info ever sees the light of day.
For any reason.
Else, you'd be no better than him.
You'd be worse, actually.
So, take a deeeeeeep breath, get all zen-like and shit, and say to yourself that none of this will matter in 6 months, and put the whole episode behind you.
And let me just add, personally, from myself and from my heart: Fuck that guy.
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why would you send 29BTC to someone whom you've never dealt with before anyways? a fool and his money are easily parted.
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@variety jones-damn! great advice for a person with just 8 posts. you should be a real asset to the board. :)
To the OP: you stated before, when you were less emotionally involved (or wound up, whichever) that you would be satisfied with a 50% resolution. As others have said, it's just an expensive lesson. Don't you think all the other vendors have made such mistakes and paid for them also? I *guarantee* you they have, each in their own ways and methods.
If you don't come to a resolution, yep, SR can just keep all the BTC and put them in the escrow hedging account. It may seem unfair, but it's actually brilliant. It prevents people from standing on their <cough> principles <cough> and should probably be called the "play fair, play nice" rule.
You seem overall more than smart enough. Really tough dogs always live to fight another day, not go down in battle in someone else's grip.