Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: DigitalAlch on July 08, 2011, 05:39 pm
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There seems to be a little confusion.. so to clear it up:
All DMT extraction teks are based on the relative solubilities of the DMT in it's protonated and unprotonated form. What does that mean exactly?
Acids and Bases
A proton is a positively hydrogen ion, H+. The transfer of protons is the entire basis of acid/base chemistry. An acid is a molecule that can donate a proton. A base is a molecule that can acquire a proton.
Every acid has a conjugate base; for example, when acetic acid (CH[3COOH) gives up the proton on its -COOH group (incidentally, this is called a "carboxylic acid", its conjugate base is the acetate anion (CH3COO). Thus acetic acid and acetate are called a "conjugate pair". Likewise, every base has a conjugate acid; for example, when ammonia (NH3) aquires a proton, its conjugate acid is an ammonium cation (NH4+). (Ammonia and ammonium are another conjugate pair).
Just a bit of terminology: An when a molecule carries a charge, we call it an ion. If it's positively charged, we call it a cation; if it's negatively charged, we call it an anion.
pH and pKa
The relative concentrations of each member of a conjugate pair in solution is determined by the pH. The lower the pH, the more protons there are in solution, and bases are eager to grab them up. The higher the pH, the less protons there are in solution, and the more eager the conjugate acids are to be rid of them. Low pH solutions are referred to as acidic, while high pH solutions are referred to as alkaline, or basic.
The pH where the concentrations of a base and its conjugate acid are equal is called the "pKa" of that conjugate pair. Above the pKa, more of the molecule exists in its base form; below the pKa, more of the molecule exists as its conjugate acid.
DMT is a neutral (uncharged) base, sometimes called a "freebase" because the uncharged ("free" base can be obtained as a solid. The pKa of DMT is 8.68. Above pH 8.68, it exists primarily in its neutral (uncharged) freebase form. Below pH 8.68, it exists primarily in its positively charged acid form.
Salts
Often the protonated form of DMT will associate with a "counterion". When ions associate to form an complex with a net charge of 0, we call this a salt . Since DMT bears a positive charge, it must associate with a negatively charged ion in order to form a neutral salt. For example, if we acidify a solution of DMT using acetic acid, then the DMT will predominantly assume its charged (protonated) conjugate acid form, and will tend to associate with acetate ion (CH3COO-), the conjugate base of the acetic acid we used to acidify the solution. We would call the resulting salt DMT acetate.
Solvents
A solvent is a liquid in which other molecules can be dissolved. In the case of extractions, we're interested in dissolving DMT. For our purposes, there are two types of solvents: polar solvents, and nonpolar solvents. In polar solvents (like water and ethanol), polar compounds like salts and ions tend to be highly soluble (that is, they dissolve easily), while less polar compounds like hydrocarbons and neutral organic molecules (like DMT freebase) tend to be relatively insoluble (that is, they tend not to dissolve). In nonpolar solvents (like naphtha and dichloromethane) polar compounds tend to be insoluble, while less polar compounds tend to be more soluble. When polar and nonpolar solvents are mixed together, they typically stay seperated as two seperate layers, or "phases". Oil and water is the classic example of this phenomenon.
This is a simplified explanation, but it'll serve well enough to explain the basic principles of the process.
Now let's bring it all back home with respect to extracting DMT:
In acidic water, DMT exists predominantly in its protonated form, either as a cation or a salt. Since the protonated form of DMT is relatively polar, DMT is quite soluble in acidic water. In alkaline water, DMT exists predominantly in its freebase form. While the freebase is not particularly soluble in water, it's not so insoluble that it falls out of solution or forms a seperate layer. But if we were to mix an alkaline solution of DMT with a nonpolar solvent, since the DMT freebase is much more soluble in the nonpolar solvent, much of it will migrate from the polar solvent to the nonpolar solvent.
This is the basis of almost every DMT extraction.
Keep Informed,
DigitalAlch
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um.. some stupid questions - are all of these DMT's smokable (duno if it's even english word).. can one smoke all of the forms of dmt, or are some of em "designed" for other means of consuption (injection, oral, snort?).. as far as I have read the best way to do dmt is to smoke (i complete reject the injection part of any drug)... I saw that there are several kinds of dmt on sale, please, do correct me if I'm wrong:
DMT - as far as i understood, this is just an extract of the plant, or synthesized stuff. More or less pure kind of dmt
Changa - some kind of natural dmt - some dried plants/cones, or something that contains dmt as an active ingredient (the same as MJ or hash contains THC - the molecule (?) or substance that does all the good things;)
fumarate - crystallized (?) form of dmt, designed for other means of consumption (injection, oral, snort?) - (not for smoking?). If I understand this correct - if you need about 50mg of pure dmt to communicate with the multiverse after smoking, you'll need a bit more if you smoke fumarate?
I would like to apologize for my lack of knowledge in chemistry (and of course the subject;), I am still trying to catch up with what I have missed during high school (I got problems with the attitude to subjects that were not interesting to me, or with teachers that were boring... now I'm discovering everything again, I'm watching lectures in physics, quantum mechanics, astrophysics... I plan to go to chemistry lectures afterward, because it's very interesting for me and I curse myself for how stupid I was when I could get everything free in school ;).. so if I sounded stupid - it's because I am - in the field of chemistry;)
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Excellent Information! Thank you DigitalAlch!
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Thanks for the info. :D
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um.. some stupid questions - are all of these DMT's smokable (duno if it's even english word).. can one smoke all of the forms of dmt, or are some of em "designed" for other means of consuption (injection, oral, snort?).. as far as I have read the best way to do dmt is to smoke (i complete reject the injection part of any drug)... I saw that there are several kinds of dmt on sale, please, do correct me if I'm wrong:
DMT - as far as i understood, this is just an extract of the plant, or synthesized stuff. More or less pure kind of dmt
Changa - some kind of natural dmt - some dried plants/cones, or something that contains dmt as an active ingredient (the same as MJ or hash contains THC - the molecule (?) or substance that does all the good things;)
fumarate - crystallized (?) form of dmt, designed for other means of consumption (injection, oral, snort?) - (not for smoking?). If I understand this correct - if you need about 50mg of pure dmt to communicate with the multiverse after smoking, you'll need a bit more if you smoke fumarate?
I would like to apologize for my lack of knowledge in chemistry (and of course the subject;), I am still trying to catch up with what I have missed during high school (I got problems with the attitude to subjects that were not interesting to me, or with teachers that were boring... now I'm discovering everything again, I'm watching lectures in physics, quantum mechanics, astrophysics... I plan to go to chemistry lectures afterward, because it's very interesting for me and I curse myself for how stupid I was when I could get everything free in school ;).. so if I sounded stupid - it's because I am - in the field of chemistry;)
There are two pure forms of DMT on the market: freebase and fumarate salt. First is smoked (well, not really smoked, but vaporized. It boils at about 50C degrees but renders useless on open fire), second is for oral consuption in a mix with MAO inhibitors. Changa is a plant containing DMT. It is usually cooked with some another plants containing natural MAOi (or does it contain them already?) into a brew called Ayahuaska.
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Changa is not cooked into a brew; it's used instead of a brew. It is for smoking and not for brewing/drinking. It is a mixture of herbs with spice (DMT) added thereto and legend has it that it's just about perfect. I have never tried it but as soon as my next shipment of bitcoins arrives I am spending them on some of this. It's what I want, you see.
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That's a serious breakdown Digi, thanks for that huge chunk of knowledge
L75