Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: peaceandlove on June 30, 2011, 06:27 pm
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Have any sellers noticed a rise in buyers saying that they haven't received their orders? I have a high level of feedback and success in shipping orders without any issues however, I have noticed more and more saying that orders haven't arrived and looking for refunds.
Now I do realize that sometimes orders don't make it and that's fine, or if there was a disimprovement in my shipping methods but it seems to me that some buyers want their cake and to get it for free. Legit buyers will know that they'll get a better service and cheaper goods if a system can be reached whereby scam buyers are weeded out.
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In my opinion, They should provide a love letter to you before busting that common move. they can upload the love letter to you for verification.then they should be entitled to half the money back only.you can even ring the number on the love letter and check if its legit(they may have photoshop skills).lol....
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This is one of my top concerns as well. I was thinking that it might be a good idea to have a buyers feedback. But, If a buyer is out to scam, it's really easy to make a new account. With this business we will never have a perfect system, but we can and should implement all safety measures possible for both the vendor and seller.
I understand that its much more riskier for a buyer but vendors have their risks as well. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out a way to minimize risk for all.
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maybe all new buyers should buy the drugs@ half price upfront....and then pay the rest upon receipt...but still within the escrow system....considering that the buyer has the upperhand as they are receiving drugs via regular post.
??????
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One of the vendors I order from uses confirmation that the package has been received. He uses a fake return address and then monitors the confirmation number to see when it has been received.
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do you have to sign for it???
and that means he has to go into the post office for this one so his face will be on cam,not that i believe its such a big issue,thousands upon thousands of pieces of post are going through mail via special delivery so fuck it....
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I think that I may have to implement a system whereby I use delivery confirmation that is no signature but you get notified it was dropped off. It costs more so prices will rise.
For those that wish to get cheaper I could send regularly but at their risk. As I can't afford to lose to scammers and it's unfair on real buyers.
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i think thats the way forward pal..... buyers own risk if he wants it via regular mail.would be nice is there was a thread on here with the different mailing options that each country offers... i had a lookie at royal mail(uk), i couldnt see any domestic options for tracking mail without signing though :-\ but i did see an international mailing option that can track post without signing.....
at the end of the day,a seller ideally doesnt want to step foot in a post office due to cameras,but imo that is a bit extreme being that paranoid,considering how much shit gets sent directly from post offices anyways...a disguise can fix shit up nicely too....i dunnoo....but a change is needed or else sellers are just gonna be giving shit away for free.....lol...and also more importantly at the end of the day,buyers must not sign for shit,no matter what,so a mailing option that offers tracking without signing is win win for all...
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That is how Im sending mine out. Its called delivery confirmation. No one has to sign for it, you just have to make sure that you send it 'no signature required". All it says is that the package has been delivered. Another vendor told me to do this and it seems like a great way to go. You do have to pay extra for it. Right now, Im including it the cost...
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I placed an order with a vendor whom later got back to me around 2.5 weeks later saying that due to unforeseen circumstances it was not coming. This happened with the same vendor to 30+ people so I am sure that is contributing to the increase. The next order I placed used priority mail with a tracking # much better system and they do not require a signature. So much more convenient as you know exactly when to expect the package and the seller knows exactly when you got it. I would gladly pay extra for this security as a buyer.
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I put Delivery Confirmation on all my shipments to sellers in case someone claims it wasn't delivered.
It costs less than a buck more per package, there's no signature required, and you don't have to go into the post office to mail it that way. They have the DCN stickers sitting out some places and you can take them for free. Just slap it on the front of your package and you just have to have the correct postage when you mail. Each sticker has a number that you can track online.
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Delivery confirmation is a vital tool for SR sellers to not get reverse-scammed.
I know the second the package arrives (No signature required)
If sellers are extra worried, you can always track your delivery through Tor.
Also remember, The green delivery confirmation slips are NOT tracking.
They just tell you when it arrives, sometimes a few things in between.
The only packages that provide real tracking are Express Mail.
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I use delivery confirmation on all orders over $30
Trust not, Want not.
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I haven't in the past, but when I reopen shop I will be using delivery confirmation on all packages since it only costs two extra stamps on the package. I hate to say it, but I just don't trust the new influx of users as much as I do the old smaller community that we had.
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Sorry you're experiencing this- I received your package quickly and without issue here in the states.
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how do you pay for the delivery confirmation when you just attach those green slips?
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how do you pay for the delivery confirmation when you just attach those green slips?
You can use the USPS site's online postage calculator, which is REALLY easy with flat rate boxes and envelopes. It'll tell you the exact amount of postage you need to slap on there.
But as a general rule of thumb, one dollar stamp added to the existing postage will cover the delivery confirmation slip.
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Delivery confirmation is a vital tool for SR sellers to not get reverse-scammed.
I know the second the package arrives (No signature required)
If sellers are extra worried, you can always track your delivery through Tor.
Also remember, The green delivery confirmation slips are NOT tracking.
They just tell you when it arrives, sometimes a few things in between.
The only packages that provide real tracking are Express Mail.
COnsidering the IPs of the Tor exit nodes are known, it doesn't take much to trawl the logs of the tracking website a flag any parcel lookup that was made from a Tor IP address as suspicious. If you need to do this, use an Internet cafe or a anonymous proxy.
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I'm new here so please forgive my ignorance. Can't the buyer still steal his money back after receiving a package that's been verified as delivered? Wouldn't it still just be your word vs. there's, except the only difference being you have proof? Is there anything you can do with the proof?
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Big problem is not in not/delivered. Recipient can claim package is empty, what then?
Well, solution is difficult. That is also depended what product vendor sell.
I can afford to lose some of my product due any reason. But I have product what is not widely offered. That one who claim two times that is not delivered, I will refund and not accept any more order to that post code/address.
But that can not do vendors who sell weed or similar. Buyer could pick any other vendor and get many many free orders.
We should start new thread with info post code of buyers who claim that but that thread must be password protected for vendors only.
Any suggestions?
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Anybody know if you have to sign off on tracking addition using Canada Post up here? I'm not sure off hand?
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Big problem is not in not/delivered. Recipient can claim package is empty, what then?
Well, solution is difficult. That is also depended what product vendor sell.
I can afford to lose some of my product due any reason. But I have product what is not widely offered. That one who claim two times that is not delivered, I will refund and not accept any more order to that post code/address.
But that can not do vendors who sell weed or similar. Buyer could pick any other vendor and get many many free orders.
We should start new thread with info post code of buyers who claim that but that thread must be password protected for vendors only.
Any suggestions?
You seem to be making the assumption that every buyer here is in the US.
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Rake, No I do not. I dont know why you think I do. I really think that vendors should have password protected thread here where we can discuss many problems and issues.
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I like the idea of a password protected area where people can share zip codes of non payments. Also sharing what product the vendor was stiffed on is helpful. I think this idea should be implemented ASAP.
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I don't want you'all having a private forum where you can post fucking zip codes...are you crazy? what next, our IP addresses? We risk *prison* if just *one* of you guys goes bad, so I'd appreciate it if the owners of this forum don't give into this kind of secret requests.
We've got bad buyers and bad sellers on here, and time will weed them out...I had *three* packages not arrive this week...opiates...kind of fucked up, you ask me, but I'm not asking for a secret area for buyers...you can post on here, same as we do, if some buyer you think is causing havoc then 'out' him, and nobody in their right mind will buy...I've lost quite a bit of money with latest influx of sellers, but that's the breaks: I take note. One of them is strait up and righteous and made the order right: the other two, I don't know, but the last thing in the world I want to do is make it any more dangerous or aggravating for the reputable sellers...
What's to keep a bad seller from holding these sort of things over the buyer's heads, same as they do on ebay...you don't ship, then tell buyer you'll give him a bad rep if he complains...plus, all these confirmation of deliveries. just attracts more attention to buyer...many of us don't *receive* at our own houses...we have to do all kinds of crap to find addresses just barely safe enough to get these goods, and the last thing we need--and are having problems with lately--are snoopy mailmen...
We all have a tough road on here, and loose money sorting out the good from the bad...reputable sellers know me, know they can talk to me, and I'll forgive just about anything...but the last thing I need is to have to start dealing with curious mailmen...if my packages aren't arriving because I'm not there *not* to sign for them, that is truly fucked...on our end, we need as much anonymity as possible, and we've learned and are warned *not* to get packages at our own house...just put the shit in an envelope/package and let it rip...you send confirmed delivery, and whether I'm there or not, the postman sees that there's nobody living there, and probably keeps the package...jesus, what a depressing and discouraging thread this is...like we don't have enough worries...
But if a seller r
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Here is my 127.0.0.1.
Here is location: world
Why post code would be a problem?
I will send 100 packages to senators so what would happen to them? Nothing, they have not control what will arrive in the mail. Nobody can prove it! Think a little yourself and dont listen only advices on internet!
We have to discuss how vendor can be protected from goods hunters! That is all what I would like, how? Well, lets talk..
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Rake, No I do not. I dont know why you think I do. I really think that vendors should have password protected thread here where we can discuss many problems and issues.
Why would you assume that everyone has a zip code or post code that is trackable? What I have noticed from thread like these is that there is a lot of new sellers who a requesting many changes to store information about buyers and transactions. Storing details of this information whether in a public or private area is a major security risk to the long term survival of the site. Kneejerk changes are not going to stabilize the site. Methodical planning of changes are required. Already SR has changed the way seller accounts have obtaine, the first sale of these accounts went to Mitanox who you have seen has not complained once about the sales process. He has only had three transactions complete thus far so it is even too early for him to tell if the process has been worthwhile to him.
To put this thread back on topic, two weeks ago the site was doing about 180 transactions per day, now it is doing over 210 transactions per day or about a 16% increase. Has there been an increase of over 16% in orders not received and if so is this due to first time buyers thinking they can score free drugs, is it due to new sellers not following the sellers guide and the deliveries being confiscated, or is it a rise in scammer vendors? The existing vendors don't appear to be complaining though so maybe we do need somewhere where their experiences can be shared.
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Post code i stated like example what I plan to do with my rules and not explicitly to post it in new secured thread.Anyway, let stop with post code.
You have interesing numbers of transaction per day, how do you know that and is it realy nececary to state it here?
In SR is all transaction records with time stamps. Is that realy clever to keep? What other info/data are there hidden from us?
I suggest that beside confirm shippmant button is delete address button. Why address should be visible until actually go into mail?
This forum is very unsecure place and many ideas and suggestions should not be offered to everybody, just my 2c
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Those statistics were recovered from a buyers account. It's pretty easy to work out as the transaction ID is incremental. Addresses in sellers section are automatically deleted after they are used, if a seller would like the option of deleting the address earlier then they should be able to. Although it shouldn't matter as we are all encrypting messages and address detailswith PGP aren't we ;)
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yes, we are..thanks.
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All I know is that none of the sellers I do business with seem to have any of these kinds of problems...I hear some talk of it in the forums but it seems more theoretical than real. We don't need private forums on here...the main safety we all have, is that other than indivdual PM's, we all get to see what is going on. LE would *love* private forums, as then they could start posting false information about buyers, wiithout buyers being able to defend themselves, thus causing havoc.
Buyers start threads when sellers don't deliver, to protect other buyers, or to find out if maybe the package just got ripped or something...sellers can do the same thing ...
We all take hits on here: I don't see that buyers are doing this rip...put all that trouble, just to lie about the package, ensuring they won't be able to buy from that seller anymore...where are all the outraged sellers? This site is weeding out the problems just fine...if you need to make more money to cover your losses then raise your prices...
What we need to face is that LE is amongst us...no doubting that!...and be on guard...and please just send good plain old mail...don't ask for any confirmation, as then it attracts heat, and you should want to protect your buyers too...
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>Buyers start threads when sellers don't deliver, to protect other buyers
>or to find out if maybe the package just got ripped or something...sellers can do the same thing ...
No. Sellers must keep using the same account, since their positive feedback is tied to it. Buyers on the other hand, can simply make a new account for each purchase. Your system does not work.
Instead of buyer feedback, a buyer should just have two simple numbers: successful purchases / total purchases. e.g. (4/5) 5 buys, 4 successful. A newbie would be (0/0).
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@performance - that is the most logical system for rating buyers I have heard. +1
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I second that....Makes it simple. We aren't going to have a perfect system, but that is a great idea...\
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I don't have a problem with that one, performance...I just want all of us to realze, that *most* of us are after the same thing...avoiding heat and scams, and doing our damndest to avoid LE...anything reasonable is fine by me...but anything that smacks of paranoia or attempts to pit one side against the other I'm going to fight. Again: I haven't *heard* of all these beatdowns of sellers by buyers...it's too much trouble, and there is nothing to keep you from posting the buyer's name on here, and since it takes a whole lot of time and energy to get btc, I just don't think this is that big a problem...dope rip off artists are opportunists, same as thieves, and aren't going to go to all that trouble, just to get over on some btc...are sellers really getting ripped off this way? Or are you just afraid it *could* happen...I've had 3 sellers didn't come thru this week, as they said they would...all 3 have responded, explained, and I"m totally cool with that...last thing I want is to loose the few good sellers we have...we communicate, and watch each other's back...way it should be...
Reasonable plan to shift out scammers is fine...but escrow is the appeal of this site, and why Black Market's first foray was horrible. I'm going about 50-50 for good sellers/bad sellers, and I've yet to post bad feedback...make it harder to sign up, make new *buyers* bid to become buyers too, I'm fine with any of that...just don't start private forums...it's scary enough *knowing* LE is reading every word I post...only safe guard is we all read everything, and I want to keep it that way...most reputable buyers see us all in the same boat, and don't see it as 'us againt you'...we have enough real enemies...again: we face prison time, and are easier to catch than sellers...we don't want on your bad side...
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@performance
Someone give this man a fuckin' medal. That's a great buyer rating system.
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Its also worth considering that this could be a law enforcement tactic to help drive out the sellers. Order from them, gather intelligence on their packaging methods, then report not receiving in order to drive up costs, discourage sellers, etc...
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Well, everybody who's ever been in this game--and I include all LE reading this too--knows that LE depends upon buyers getting busted, and giving up their sellers. Rats/informants are vital to what they do. Here it just can't happen,and that must be infuriating...but they've also been known just to bust a bunch of buyers in some neighborhoods, to shut down markets: NYC in the eighties...and I"m more inclined to think that *that* would be their aim: set up as fake seller, and nail a bunch of buyers, word gets out, blah blah blah...
The *last* thing they want to do is have some kind of trial, where btc and SR get brought in, as no one can explain it worth a damn, and can you imagine some jury trying to sift thru all this ha ha ha...
We'll see....
Back to topic: SR is like what Winston Churchill wrote about democracy, which is that it is the worst system of gov't except for all the others...
Leave SR alone...none of the sellers I know claim they are getting rip off scams...who is?
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Delivery confirmation is a vital tool for SR sellers to not get reverse-scammed.
I know the second the package arrives (No signature required)
If sellers are extra worried, you can always track your delivery through Tor.
Also remember, The green delivery confirmation slips are NOT tracking.
They just tell you when it arrives, sometimes a few things in between.
The only packages that provide real tracking are Express Mail.
Do not track your packages through tor unless you are using some sort of shipping proxy (such as endicia.com/status). Reputable sources have let it be known that USPS has a fingerprinting system that flags a pack if you check it with a known tor exit node/other open proxies.
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Its also probably wise not to track it until its considered late. +1 on what envious stated..