Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: NorthernStar on October 04, 2013, 05:50 pm
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Poor man was in chains and a jump suit. Judge pushes back bail hearing for San Francisco man charged with operating vast drug website
Bail hearing in SF postponed in drug website case, A federal judge in San Francisco has postponed the bail hearing for a man charged as the mastermind of Silk Road, an encrypted website where users could shop for drugs like heroin and LSD anonymously.Ross Ulbricht appeared in court on Friday in shackles and red prison clothes. His attorney, public defender Brandon LeBlanc, said the case was complex. He requested the hearing be pushed back.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Joseph Spero granted the request, rescheduling the hearing for Oct. 9.
The 29-year-old Ulbricht is also charged in Maryland with arranging to pay someone to kill a witness.
FBI agents arrested him on Tuesday in the science fiction section of a small branch of the San Francisco public library.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
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subbed
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How is he going to deal with a 100+ year sentence?? I honestly feel for the guy now. Hope he gets a good celly, who can at least read.
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Poor man was in chains and a jump suit. Judge pushes back bail hearing for San Francisco man charged with operating vast drug website
Bail hearing in SF postponed in drug website case, A federal judge in San Francisco has postponed the bail hearing for a man charged as the mastermind of Silk Road, an encrypted website where users could shop for drugs like heroin and LSD anonymously.Ross Ulbricht appeared in court on Friday in shackles and red prison clothes. His attorney, public defender Brandon LeBlanc, said the case was complex. He requested the hearing be pushed back.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Joseph Spero granted the request, rescheduling the hearing for Oct. 9.
The 29-year-old Ulbricht is also charged in Maryland with arranging to pay someone to kill a witness.
FBI agents arrested him on Tuesday in the science fiction section of a small branch of the San Francisco public library.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
That's not shocking. It's hard to imagine that they'd grant him bail next week anyway. I'm sure he will be remanded at that hearing. They probably consider him a flight risk.
Who's going to post bond for him anyway?
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Isn't this country - USA - fucked up when a drug dealer will get life but a murderer will get parole and be walking the streets in years and rarely ever get a life sentence. Shit man, OJ got away with murder. I wish this government would just let people do what they want to themselves and leave us the fuck alone and stay out of our business. No fucking wonder why everyone is building large fences and trying to be covert. They want the politicians out of their ass. They should be trying to help this country get back on its feet instead of trying to take its own people down. The US is like a 3rd world country now. No industry, poor people that can't afford food all over the place, people losing their houses everyday with no support at all from its own government. Kind of sucks and makes me want to think about moving, and not moving to another state but OUT OF COUNTRY. I'm so getting tired of paying so many taxes to keep these greedy useless polititians working.
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Thanks NS :) I was just gonna look for info, don't have to now! ;)
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Hi, mary, guys that's the killer he has the money to post bail, if one could get bail on a solicit to murder charge. But how can he access the funds without confirming he is actually DPR.?
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I seen a post that said he had to have a court appointed lawyer as he couldn't afford one! Why was he sharing a house also! Very Strange?? Have you seen the thread about a vendor called NOD being arrested in US, def connection! :-\
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Hi, mary, guys that's the killer he has the money to post bail, if one could get bail on a solicit to murder charge. But how can he access the funds without confirming he is actually DPR.?
You mean the money he accumulated while running SR? Good luck using that! I'd be surprised if all of his assets weren't seized through civil forfeiture. That's probably why he has a public defender.
Anything he has has got to be stashed away somewhere secretly.
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( mary Yeah, that was his M,O tho I reckon because he lived below the radar, in a modest house share, and didn't draw attention to himself. That's why he lasted 2 years.
Yeah that's moody that NOD thing.) Here's an update on his appearance in court:
Attorney Denies California Man Ran Drugs Bazzar San Francisco man denies charges that he operated an encrypted website where users could anonymously shop for drugs such as heroin and LSD, his attorney said on Friday.
"We deny all charges. That's the end of the discussion," said federal public defender Brandon LeBlanc, who is representing defendant Ross Ulbricht.
The denial came after Ulbricht, looking calm, appeared in federal court in shackles and red prison clothes for a bail hearing. LeBlanc asked U.S. Magistrate Judge Joseph Spero to postpone the hearing, saying the case was complex.
Spero granted the request and rescheduled the hearing for Oct. 9.
Ulbricht has been charged in New York with narcotics trafficking, computer hacking and money laundering in connection with the website known as Silk Road, which is believed to have collected more than $1 billion in revenue.
He is also charged in Maryland with arranging to pay someone to kill a witness.
FBI agents arrested the 29-year-old San Francisco resident — allegedly known online as Dread Pirate Roberts — on Tuesday in the science fiction section of a small branch of the San Francisco public library, where he was chatting online.
The arrest came after a federal investigation that began in 2011. Agents said they determined Ulbricht was "altoid," someone who was posting information about Silk Road on other drug-related websites under federal surveillance.
Since then, Ulbricht's online behavior has been tracked, and agents slowly gathered evidence that allegedly connected him to Silk Road.
If convicted, Ulbricht could be sentenced to life in prison.
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Hi, mary, guys that's the killer he has the money to post bail, if one could get bail on a solicit to murder charge. But how can he access the funds without confirming he is actually DPR.?
You mean the money he accumulated while running SR? Good luck using that! I'd be surprised if all of his assets weren't seized through civil forfeiture. That's probably why he has a public defender.
Anything he has has got to be stashed away somewhere secretly.
That's what I mean mate, he has got dough tucked away, they seized buttons to him. But how can he get hold of the funds without letting the feds know he was indeed DPR, hard situation.
Anyway he has gone not guilty.
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Your USA tax dollars hard at work.. Making street gangs more powerful.
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I seen a post that said he had to have a court appointed lawyer as he couldn't afford one! Why was he sharing a house also! Very Strange?? Have you seen the thread about a vendor called NOD being arrested in US, def connection! :-\
Nod was caught independent of this, through a fake mail box used as a return address, surveillance and a buyer giving his handle on SR up.
He can't afford a lawyer as outside of the money made here he probably doesn't have much, if any that is legal money and can be used.
You would think that a good firm will end up repping him.
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anyone seen any video footage? I haven't been much on television from this.
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|No footage as yet, there are a couple of YouTube vids but they are just news readers explaining the story. No pics of him. He was looking calm apparently. It said he was chatting when the plain clothes feds burst in the library, the guy who he was chatting to must have been like WTF.
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Guys.. you're not understanding the legal strategy here. He's saying he's broke, needs a public defender (initially) for a reason.
If you have a gazillion bucks stashed away in BTC (and you better believe he probably has lots of btc and money stashed outside the seized SR servers).. and are charged with being the biggest internet drug lord of all time.. you're going to act poor.. because you're strategy will be to deny you're the man they're claiming. You're going to make them PROVE it beyond a reasonable doubt (which, given the TOR aspect of it all).. might prove hard in some situations. Or atleast to prove that you were the SOLE "DPR". You're going to say "i'm not the guy, and im innocent until you PROVE I am" as a strategy.
In fact, the public defender already made 1 comment to the press today. "We deny ALL charges completely. No more comment then that"
There you go. This is going to be one hell of a trial.
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;) Cheers hun
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Guys.. you're not understanding the legal strategy here. He's saying he's broke, needs a public defender (initially) for a reason.
If you have a gazillion bucks stashed away in BTC (and you better believe he probably has lots of btc and money stashed outside the seized SR servers).. and are charged with being the biggest internet drug lord of all time.. you're going to act poor.. because you're strategy will be to deny you're the man they're claiming. You're going to make them PROVE it beyond a reasonable doubt (which, given the TOR aspect of it all).. might prove hard in some situations. Or atleast to prove that you were the SOLE "DPR". You're going to say "i'm not the guy, and im innocent until you PROVE I am" as a strategy.
In fact, the public defender already made 1 comment to the press today. "We deny ALL charges completely. No more comment then that"
There you go. This is going to be one hell of a trial.
I'm getting it bro, I'm just pointing out the irony of him knowing he could hire a team who would kick O,J's lawyers asses, but has to rely on a public defender, to prove he is not the Drug baron mastermind. Maybe he can get some donations on the scale of Julian Assange and then hire a decent team.
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Thanks as well m ;D
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Oh I know bro. The fucking irony of it all! But I'll tell you this much.. once this trial picks up steam and as Bitcoin continues to go mainstream in parralell, you can imagine this will be definetly be the trial of the year. Forget Casey Anthony trial.. this will be the internet trial of the decade. And I'm positive high profile libertarian attorneys will come out of the woodwork and take the case on pro bono.
There's so many interlaced elements to the whole thing. Since TOR is involved, proving 101$ Ulbright is DPR and the ONLY DPR that is/was is not going to be a walk in the park for the prosecution, since there are big drug dealers involved and the affidavits say they ONLY have DPR's clear text communication.. NOT whatever he communicated through PGP.. he (im not suggesting he's a rat) could be offered some sort of deal in exchange for whatever juicy information he might have on some of the largest narco traffickers that were on the site.. etc etc.
My theory is, Ulbright is going to either say he's not DPR at all and they got the wrong guy. Or he's going to say there WERE and ARE multiple "DPRs" who controlled that account/the site.. so he can't be liable for all the charges. Setting up a drug site? Nah, that was the first guy before him. Ordering hits on witnesses and employees? Nah, thats one of the other current DPRs. Etc etc.
And how exactly will the government be able to disprove that defense? It's tor. They cant say for sure him and only him was DPR, was always DPR, and was teh ONLY DPR current or past.
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I seen a post that said he had to have a court appointed lawyer as he couldn't afford one! Why was he sharing a house also! Very Strange?? Have you seen the thread about a vendor called NOD being arrested in US, def connection! :-\
What's odd about a 29 year-old unmarried guy sharing a house? Do you have any idea how high rents are in the Bay Area? I know, I know, he could've afforded it; but the goal of being successful in the drug business is to be as inconspicuous as possible.
Nod was caught independent of this, through a fake mail box used as a return address, surveillance and a buyer giving his handle on SR up.
I'm not sure when NOD was actually arrested, but the news broke within 24 hours of DPR's arrest. So either they unsealed the indictment after they closed in on SR or they arrested him when they moved in on DPR (and others too probably -- to keep them from getting spooked and fleeing the country). That's the only connection I can make.
He can't afford a lawyer as outside of the money made here he probably doesn't have much, if any that is legal money and can be used.
You would think that a good firm will end up repping him.
Yeah I think they probably seized his assets. Did anyone read the civil forfeiture warrant/complaint? That's always been my biggest fear since I've been on SR (i.e. that they'll seize or freeze my assets and I wouldn't be able to post bond or hire a lawyer).
As for a law firm offering him pro-bono representation, I doubt it will happen. If the charges were just about running SR, then maybe some libertarian or pro-drug policy reform minded firms might step up. The whole murder-for-hire part makes a lot of people unsympathetic.
He might end up copping a plea. I guarantee the prosecutors are overcharging (i.e. charging more than they can prove) to leverage a plea deal. I have a feeling he's going to insist on going to trial, even if is lawyer advises against it. I just have that feeling based on things he's said here.
He's going to have a hard time with the Maryland indictment since he tried to hire an undercover agent to kill whoever that former employee is.
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Oh I know bro. The fucking irony of it all! But I'll tell you this much.. once this trial picks up steam and as Bitcoin continues to go mainstream in parralell, you can imagine this will be definetly be the trial of the year. Forget Casey Anthony trial.. this will be the internet trial of the decade. And I'm positive high profile libertarian attorneys will come out of the woodwork and take the case on pro bono.
There's so many interlaced elements to the whole thing. Since TOR is involved, proving 101$ Ulbright is DPR and the ONLY DPR that is/was is not going to be a walk in the park for the prosecution, since there are big drug dealers involved and the affidavits say they ONLY have DPR's clear text communication.. NOT whatever he communicated through PGP.. he (im not suggesting he's a rat) could be offered some sort of deal in exchange for whatever juicy information he might have on some of the largest narco traffickers that were on the site.. etc etc.
My theory is, Ulbright is going to either say he's not DPR at all and they got the wrong guy. Or he's going to say there WERE and ARE multiple "DPRs" who controlled that account/the site.. so he can't be liable for all the charges. Setting up a drug site? Nah, that was the first guy before him. Ordering hits on witnesses and employees? Nah, thats one of the other current DPRs. Etc etc.
And how exactly will the government be able to disprove that defense? It's tor. They cant say for sure him and only him was DPR, was always DPR, and was teh ONLY DPR current or past.
Cracking post. Exactly, prove it was him typing those post's. He always changed his handwriting anyway, to the extent many people believed there were 3 DPR's. I agree what a trial, how can they prove it's him on Tor.
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'his public defender'????! o__O
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Even if he wasn't DPR I'm suspect the US gov't can convince a jury he is. He may as well give it a go though. Despite some of the stupid stuff he did he did do a lot of intelligent things. I'd gamble my SR wallet that he is far more intelligent than his public defender.
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I'd be inclined to thoroughly agree with you, this man kept five Government agencies at bay for two years, he actually had someone ( he believed to be killed) to protect US his customers from arrest. What a man of unquantifiable integrity.
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Who's going to post bond for him anyway?
How about us? When we know an amount.
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I'd be inclined to thoroughly agree with you, this man kept five Government agencies at bay for two years, he actually had someone ( he believed to be killed) to protect US his customers from arrest. What a man of unquantifiable integrity.
Don't forget this was also to protect his own valuable interests. I still have much respect for him.
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There's so many interlaced elements to the whole thing. Since TOR is involved, proving 101$ Ulbright is DPR and the ONLY DPR that is/was is not going to be a walk in the park for the prosecution, since there are big drug dealers involved and the affidavits say they ONLY have DPR's clear text communication.. NOT whatever he communicated through PGP.. he (im not suggesting he's a rat) could be offered some sort of deal in exchange for whatever juicy information he might have on some of the largest narco traffickers that were on the site.. etc etc.
My theory is, Ulbright is going to either say he's not DPR at all and they got the wrong guy. Or he's going to say there WERE and ARE multiple "DPRs" who controlled that account/the site.. so he can't be liable for all the charges. Setting up a drug site? Nah, that was the first guy before him. Ordering hits on witnesses and employees? Nah, thats one of the other current DPRs. Etc etc.
And how exactly will the government be able to disprove that defense? It's tor. They cant say for sure him and only him was DPR, was always DPR, and was teh ONLY DPR current or past.
Cracking post. Exactly, prove it was him typing those post's. He always changed his handwriting anyway, to the extent many people believed there were 3 DPR's. I agree what a trial, how can they prove it's him on Tor.
They don't need to prove that he was DPR at all for that. They allege throughout the complaint that he's the one and only DPR, but they just need to show that he was involved in facilitating the operation of the site, the alleged hacking, and the laundering that took place via the tumbler in order to convict him of conspiring in those crimes. They just need to connect Ulbrict to the DPR forum account since that's what a lot of this is based on (forum postings and clear text PMs from the forum and SR). He doesn't have to be the only person using that account, just one of them.
I'm sorry, I want him to be found not guilty, but it doesn't look good. All of this has been stated over and over again on the forums, but I wanted to put it all together to show why they have a case which might convince 12 "reasonable people" that he's guilty. And sorry for reposting what is already known, but again, I just wanted to show how it's going to look to the Jury.
So here's what they claim:
1. His LinkedIn profile (complete with a photo) is consistent with the philosophies posted here.
2. The earliest mentions of SR they could find on the internet were on Shroomery under the user name altoid
3. The very next reference to SR they found (2 days after the Shoroomery post) was on bitcointalk by a user named altoid. It doesn't help that both posts end in "Let me know what you guys think." Sounds like someone looking for feedback on their new site. 8 months later, altoid makes another post looking for an IT pro with btc experience and posts it with rossulbricht@gmail as a contact address..
4. Google confirmed the account was registered to Ross Ulbricht. The Google+ profile associated with that email/Google account has a photo of the same person who is pictured on the LinkedIn profile. His Google+ profile lists his favorite YouTube videos, which originate from mises.org, a site that is devoted to the Austrian School of Economics philosophies.
5. Sure as shit, there is a profile on mises.org that belongs to Ross Ulbricht with another picture of him on its profile.
6. His SR forum signature lists mises.org in his reading list. He also references the Austrian School in his forum postings and mentions Ludwig von Mises and Murray Rothbard, who both are also associated with mises.org.
7. In June 2013, Ulbricht logged into a server used for Sr administration from a cafe less than a mile from where he lived.
8. Google provided the IPs from which the Ulbricht Google account was logged in to from 1/13-6/13. All were the same IP, which belonged to one of Ulbricht's friends. He lived with this person when he first moved to San Fran. Their relationship is confirmed in a YouTube video in which Ulbricht and his friend discuss it.
9. From his SR PMs and also a forum post by DPR, it's known that he was in the Pacific time zone.
10. Based on a forensic analysis of the SR server, the server included code restricted access to a specific IP address. That IP was through a VPN server. The provider's records were subpoenaed. Most of the information on the account was deleted by the user, but the information on the last log in was preserved. The IP used to log into the VPN was 500 feet from the friend's house where he was logging into his Gmail account (the one he used to live with). They also discovered that by 7/23 (date they imaged SR server) that the IP address had been commented out of the SR code. Reviewing is SR PMs, they found a message form 5/23 form another user indicating that some sort of external IP was leaking from SR. It listed the VPN IP that had been used up to that point, leading Ulbricht to deactivate the code regarding the VPN IP and to change the way he accessed the server.
11. Based on that information, they can show that Ulbricht and DPR were in the same approximate location on the same day.
12. They discovered during the investigation that Ulbricht had moved, and that the address he moved to was the same one that the fake IDs were shipped to.
13. Each of the fake IDs had different names, but all had pictures that were of the same person on the LinkedIN, Google+, and mises.org profiles.
14. DHS visited the residence where the IDs were shipped. There was a person living there with whom they spoke. He identified himself as Ulbricht. They showed him one of the IDs, which was a CA DL. That ID listed another name; but it had not only Ulbricht's photo, but also Ulbricht's real DOB. And while he declined to answer their questions, he told the agents that anyone could "go onto a website called Silk Road on Tor" and purchase any drugs or fake ID that they wanted. The agents didn't mention SR. Ulbricht volunteered that information.
15. Ulbrict showed DHS agents his real Texas DL. He explained his living situation to them and told them his housemates referred to him as Josh.
16. His housemates told the agents that Josh was always home in his room on his PC.
17. Based on his SR PMs, the agents discovered that DPR expressed an interest in obtaining fake IDs to other SR members. On July 8, he indicated in a message to another user that he needed the IDs to rent servers and that he was building his stock of servers.
18. They found the exchanges with redandwhite in DPR's PMs.
19. They were able to tie Ulbrict to both code and and encryption key found on the SR server. On 3/5/12, an account was created on Stack Overflow with the user name Ross Ulbricht using the rossulbricht gmail address. The post was a question about code used in running a Tor hidden service. Within one minute of posting the question, the user name on the account was switched to frosty. A few weeks later, the email address associated with the Stack Overflow account was changed to frost@frosty.com, which is not a valid address.
20. Based on the forensic analysis of SR, code matching the question posted on Stack Overflow was found.
21. In July, the SR server was configured to allow SSH logins. The public key for the SSH login stored on SR server ended in the substring frosty@frosty, indicating that the key was created on a computer named frosty with the user account on that PC also being frosty.
22. The FBI obtained a copy of Ulbricht's DL from Texas and confirmed the DL number was the same and that the picture of Ulbricht matched the others on various profiles.
There is no way in hell that a jury is going to believe this was a coincidence. You can come up with reasons why each one is meaningless, but the jury is going to consider them as a whole unless his lawyer can get some of the evidence thrown out. And I have no confidence the abilities of his public defender.
And as for the hit, he's not charged with the FriendlyChemist/Redandwhite alleged hit. They mention it in the complaint, but they couldn't charge him because the Canadian authorities informed the feds that the person supposedly killed did not exist and that there were no murders in the area. If there's any truth behind the story, then Ulbricht got scammed by Redandwhite. But even then, they still would charge him if they could prove it. In the case in the Southern District of NY, he's only charged with trafficking, money laundering, hacking, and conspiracy to commit all 3.
The Maryland case is another story entirely.
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I'd be inclined to thoroughly agree with you, this man kept five Government agencies at bay for two years, he actually had someone ( he believed to be killed) to protect US his customers from arrest. What a man of unquantifiable integrity.
I don't agree with this. If this that story is true - and sincerely doubt it is because when the cops have nothing to go on they like to get very creative - there is no way to justify DPR's decision.
So hypothetically speaking, all the guy was going to do was release the names of buyers - small fry that LE don't really care about. To order someone murdered for this is inherently wrong. Not only does the blackmail fail to justify murder, DPR's actions allowed LE to paint him as a hypocrite who acted in the very same vein as the drug lord he wished to put out of business through the proliferation of his utopian market. The irony of all this, in the context of 'The War Against Drugs' is not lost on the more intelligent members of this community.
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Who's going to post bond for him anyway?
How about us? When we know an amount.
I did have that thought. You're not talking about something that's anonymous by any means. I wasn't sure if anyone would be brave enough to do that.
And personally, I wouldn't put up the bond. Not because I don't support DPR, but because I don't have the money to lose and can't take the risk. I think DPR is fucking awesome, but the first thing I'd do if I were him and out on bail would be to try to fucking flee. That's a risk with anyone, not an attack on his character.
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And I'm positive high profile libertarian attorneys will come out of the woodwork and take the case on pro bono.
Because he was indicted on a murder-for-hire scheme by soliciting an undercover agent, and because it's alleged that he tried to do the same in a separate incident, I doubt very many libertarian firms are going to come jumping to his defense. And I'm not saying that any of that actually happened, but I think law firms would shy away from his case because of it. At the very least, that's bad PR/press coverage for the firm.
he (im not suggesting he's a rat) could be offered some sort of deal in exchange for whatever juicy information he might have on some of the largest narco traffickers that were on the site.. etc etc.
Oh I don't doubt that. I don't think he's going to give evidence against anyone, but they damn sure are going to try to get as much cooperation from him as possible.
My theory is, Ulbright is going to either say he's not DPR at all and they got the wrong guy. Or he's going to say there WERE and ARE multiple "DPRs" who controlled that account/the site.. so he can't be liable for all the charges. They cant say for sure him and only him was DPR, was always DPR, and was teh ONLY DPR current or past.
That's the worst defense ever. You don't have to be personally responsible for each aspect in order to be guilty of conspiracy. If they can show he was knowingly working with others to break the law, that's enough to get him on conspiracy charges.
Think about it like this: DPR (to my knowledge) was never a vendor. He never sold drugs; they were never in his physical possession, but he's still charged with narcotics trafficking.
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So if he is convicted he only gets life in prison? That's a good deal! Honestly I don't think they will be able to convict him or prove too too much. Murder for hire, maybe, yeah.... but don't forget. A life sentence is only 25 years. 10-15 with good behavior and parole. That's nothing.
By the way.... don't doubt, there may be some very wealthy people out there who believe in his cause, who may be willing to stop at nothing to free him, whether legally or forcefully.
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he (im not suggesting he's a rat) could be offered some sort of deal in exchange for whatever juicy information he might have on some of the largest narco traffickers that were on the site.. etc etc.
How? The feds know everything he knows about the vendors. They've had live access to the site for months.
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This comment is so I can sub
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So if he is convicted he only gets life in prison? That's a good deal! Honestly I don't think they will be able to convict him or prove too too much. Murder for hire, maybe, yeah.... but don't forget. A life sentence is only 25 years. 10-15 with good behavior and parole. That's nothing.
By the way.... don't doubt, there may be some very wealthy people out there who believe in his cause, who may be willing to stop at nothing to free him, whether legally or forcefully.
10-15 years is nothing? You're a better man than me then. I wouldn't want to do 10-15 DAYS. He's 29; he'd be 40-45 by the time he got out. Now mind you, that's not old, but those are some of the best years of your life spent behind bars.
It's one thing to say that people don't care what he did or didn't do and that they'd donate large sums of money toward his legal defense, but nobody is going to physically jailbreak him. That's a bit too strong of a statement.
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Don't panic i will free DPR i just bought lots of guns from BMR and i am taking down FBI NEXT week!!
Does anybody want to help me?