Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Veetano on October 03, 2013, 11:37 pm
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Assuming an unencrypted address? My friend was telling me how without any physical evidence there's not much they can do in terms of charging a person. Can't really charge a person for past purchases either if there's no physical drugs anywhere to be found. How long should a worried individual lay low for?
What do you guys think?
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conspiracy to ship narcotics over state lines, if you're in the US? depending where your swim is in the world it will probably vary, you're not really being informative enough.
I'd suggest one rule of thumb for the future: If the police want to nail anyone then they'll find something and if something they can use is handed to them on a platter, despite all the warnings, then live with the consequences of the risk taken and know which lawyer you're going to call if the time comes.
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run nigger run
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I live in the US. The thing about conspiracy is they cannot charge a person with it unless there is a simultaneous sting. Most conspiracy charges happen when a person buys from an undercover and agrees to buy more on a later date.
For all they know, the address on my account was a drop somebody nearby me is using. It wouldn't make much sense for them to just bust in my house and arrest me because my address was on some site. There's nothing illegal in my house anyways.
Edit:Even if you think about it, when they have packages in hand with drugs in them with a persons name on it, they still need a CD most of the time to get a CD to somebodies house.... so if all they have is text and an address, then I imagine it would be even more difficult.
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then you have your answer.
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Unless you were ordering bulk amounts I highly doubt we have anything to worry about. They have way bigger concerns right now to waste their time/resources coming after people for personal amounts, I would think. Then again you never know, they are fucking assholes. I wouldn't worry too much if you used PGP. I must say though, I will feel MUCH better when my orders arrive safely or when enough time has passed that I can assume they aren't coming.
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Yes but do you really think I would be posting this if I had ordered small amounts? On top of that my account has a very very massive purchase history in terms of $.
I didn't use PGP either. I knew I should have. I figured, oh my vendor won't get compromised, he's a pro. I remember thinking at the time when I placed the order.... man I hope nothing happens to this site, I like my money... next day.. boom. Fuck. I definitely learned my lesson... all I can do now is hope a kill switch was indeed hit and hope everything is okay.
At the very worse, I just pray they don't fuck up my house too badly when they're raiding it. There's nothing here anyways. I just hope they don't take anything like my computers - which i need to work. I just don't know, since there's nothing physically illegal in my vicinity for them to pin on me.
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I'd say at worst you've lost your bitcoin and you may end up on a list but only if the order was enough for someone to notice. with the number of messages stored and the number of transactions, it's quite possible they'll never sift through the data - particularly if your vendor wasn't very popular. I'd just learn the lesson and move on - which is all you can do in reality. If it's going to bite you on the bum, there's not much you can do to stop it apart from clean house and lead an exemplary life from now on.
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I think everyone is panicking a little to hard right now, if you think about how many people have ordered products in the history of Silk Road theres gotta be hundreds of millions of orders. I don't think they are going to look into 900k+ users and their history on SR that would cost a lot of money and resources that America doesn't even have especially right now with the gov shutdown they lost some employees that do this kind of bitch work.. I could be wrong, im sure they will try to prosecute a few venders to try and send a message and scare everyone else but they lost the war.. soon we will all migrate somewhere else on the Darknet.
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I'm actually hoping they do raid my house so I can stop fucking worrying and move on. I doubt they would do another raid after their first one fails to turn up anything. I really fucked up with not using PGP, which I won't make that mistake again. I'm giving myself 3 months of clean living. If nothing happens then I will assume everything is at least partially okay. I have enough money to live on for some time but I don't want to reach a point where that money is totally gone.
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My friend was telling me how without any physical evidence there's not much they can do in terms of charging a person. Can't really charge a person for past purchases either if there's no physical drugs anywhere to be found. How long should a worried individual lay low for?
What do you guys think?
First of all, if you bought from undercover LE posing as a vendor, they don't need the drugs. But that's another story.
Hypothetically, what kind of buying are we talking about? If you sent your address unencrypted, I can only assume that it was for a smallish purchase. If that's the case, I doubt they will ever come after you. As far as the statute of limitations goes, it varies by state but is usually for most crimes 7 years from the date the crime occurred (although with murder and other major crimes there is none). I'm not sure because these would be federal charges. Just look it up; that information is easy to find (like in a legal reference book, or from NOLO, SPLC, or ACLU).
And the police can charge you with just about anything for just about any reason. Ask a lawyer; the police charge people with crimes everyday that they either didn't do or that are misapplications of the law. Most of the time, if they are seriously BS/illegitimate charges, the prosecutor declines to pursue them (no guarantees). It's pretty fucking easy to get a grand jury to INDICT you though. Whether they'd get a conviction or not would depend on how much they have on you, your lawyer, and whether or not they can scare you into accepting a plea.
I live in the US. The thing about conspiracy is they cannot charge a person with it unless there is a simultaneous sting. Most conspiracy charges happen when a person buys from an undercover and agrees to buy more on a later date.
I don't know who told you that, but I hope it wasn't your attorney. Conspiracy just means that more than one person participated in a crime through coordinated action. If you're thinking that they have to swoop in and catch you all in the act simultaneously, you're mistaken. People get charged with conspiracy as more details about the crime are discovered. The charges don't have to be brought at the same time. They don't have to physically catch you working together. Just about everyone on this site could be charged with conspiracy.
Let's say you want to kill someone; you ask me to help, but I tell you that I could never take someone's life. You say, "you don't have to kill him, just give me a ride to his house." I agree and drive you to his house, wait for you to come out, and drive you home. Well it just so happened that his neighbors got my tag number and passed it on to the police. We both end up charged with murder. That's conspiracy. By agreeing to drive you there, especially knowing what's going to happen, I've conspired with you to commit murder, even though I didn't so much as get out of the car.
For all they know, the address on my account was a drop somebody nearby me is using. It wouldn't make much sense for them to just bust in my house and arrest me because my address was on some site. There's nothing illegal in my house anyways.
The whole "someone else used my name and address thing" isn't really a valid legal defense. It's a false sense of security to be honest with you. The thing about US criminal law is, it's based on what a "reasonable person" would consider to be true. And when I say reasonable, I don't mean what we as SR users consider reasonable. Nobody is going to buy that shit. Why you? Are you just unlucky? And is your PC clean (like clean as in immune to forensic analysis, not clean as in you deleted shit.
Edit:Even if you think about it, when they have packages in hand with drugs in them with a persons name on it, they still need a CD most of the time to get a CD to somebodies house.... so if all they have is text and an address, then I imagine it would be even more difficult.
I'm not sure what you mean here, but if you mean to get a search warrant, they just need to show probable cause (i.e. that the facts that they've discovered during their investigation would lead a reasonable person to believe you committed a crime). That your name and address is associated with SR and that your receiving packages from SR vendors. They do NOT need to do a CD to prosecute you though. Your concept of the government's burden of proof is naive. That's just icing on the cake. They can get an arrest warrant without one (if there's enough drugs involved).
It's very unusual for them to let a drug transaction go through without busting you before you have a chance to destroy or consume the evidence. But then again, they've been watching this site for almost 2 years.
If they have "text and an address" about you stemming from a drug transaction on SR, then they probably have more on you that that.
Your btc transactions aren't 100% anonymous, so depending on how your getting your coins, what your doing with them after you buy them, and cautious you are are all factors.
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I'm actually hoping they do raid my house so I can stop fucking worrying and move on. I doubt they would do another raid after their first one fails to turn up anything. I really fucked up with not using PGP, which I won't make that mistake again. I'm giving myself 3 months of clean living. If nothing happens then I will assume everything is at least partially okay. I have enough money to live on for some time but I don't want to reach a point where that money is totally gone.
Look, I wish you the best. And sincerely hope that nothing bad happens to you. I just wanted to give you a healthy dose of reality. If you don't have anything illegal in your possession (not just your house), then you can probably relax. The government has years to prosecute you though, so 3 months isn't shit. And now that I read your last sentence, maybe you should be worried. If what I think is true, how could you not have been using PGP?
Stay safe! And don't let your guard down!
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I was stupid, needless to say. Made a collasal mistake. I guess I will live exemplary and hope for the best. Maybe I'll just move away or something. This sucks. Lol.
I'm just hoping the site cancels the orders or something, or maybe I got lucky and had it marked in transit, who knows. I guess I will see.
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I was stupid, needless to say. Made a collasal mistake. I guess I will live exemplary and hope for the best. Maybe I'll just move away or something. This sucks. Lol.
I'm just hoping the site cancels the orders or something, or maybe I got lucky and had it marked in transit, who knows. I guess I will see.
Oh I understand better now. If the sit went down before they weren't. In that case, I wouldn't sweat it. Live that good clean life you were planning on for the next several months? Maybe it's time for a PC upgrade? Worry about more physical digital evidence. That's all you can change now. Sorry I like to scare people shitless for they're own sake.
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Nope Veet, you're fine. First of all, they're not going to waste time and effort going after small buyers. They're DEFINETLY not going to waste time and effort going after a buyer who bought something some time ago.. because theres no evidence. What if every time you placed an order, your vendor was dishonest and the package never came? Or even if it did come, fuck, THAT particular offense was in the past and those drugs have been consumed by now. They can't and wont touch you for that. That's like going up to a cop and saying "Officer, last month I smoked a joint". Not much he can do unless he has a time machine.
As for being unencrypted.. that's not smart at all.. and you're DEFINETLY on a "list" now. I'm not trying to sound dramatic, and maybe that "list" is not even significant, but whatever data was harvested from that SR image of cleartext communications.. you had better believe it's all been tucked away neatly in some database somewhere.
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Nope Veet, you're fine. First of all, they're not going to waste time and effort going after small buyers. They're DEFINETLY not going to waste time and effort going after a buyer who bought something some time ago.. because theres no evidence. What if every time you placed an order, your vendor was dishonest and the package never came? Or even if it did come, fuck, THAT particular offense was in the past and those drugs have been consumed by now. They can't and wont touch you for that. That's like going up to a cop and saying "Officer, last month I smoked a joint". Not much he can do unless he has a time machine.
As for being unencrypted.. that's not smart at all.. and you're DEFINETLY on a "list" now. I'm not trying to sound dramatic, and maybe that "list" is not even significant, but whatever data was harvested from that SR image of cleartext communications.. you had better believe it's all been tucked away neatly in some database somewhere.
I think he's going to be fine too, I was clearing up some misconceptions. That said, it all depends on what you buy and how much you spent. I don't think small time users are at risk; I just don't know where he falls.
The bigger crime is using the mail to transport drugs rather than buying/possessing them. I'd be more worried about the post office than the police if I read the question correctly.
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A lot of confusion in my mind and probably other people's about what exactly was stored on the site's database on a normal basis.
If you send a PM to another member or a vendor, on the main site or in the forums, that person has to log in to read it. Could an administrator or LE once they gain administrative access read it, not knowing the receiver's password?
Even if it was deleted by the person receiving the message, would it still exist in the database for some time after?
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A lot of confusion in my mind and probably other people's about what exactly was stored on the site's database on a normal basis.
If you send a PM to another member or a vendor, on the main site or in the forums, that person has to log in to read it. Could an administrator or LE once they gain administrative access read it, not knowing the receiver's password?
Even if it was deleted by the person receiving the message, would it still exist in the database for some time after?
seconded -- also, did prior orders have the addresses saved or only orders that were not marked in transit prior to the shutdown? i can't imagine why DPR would design SR to save all of the addresses sent in the past to be saved forever in a database.
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Well all of the guides that I read, stated that once an order was processed it was "deleted forever." Perhaps a moderator who knows more about the inner workings could shed some light on exactly how the system worked? The person who said that they wouldn't waste time and effort going after buyers who have made PAST purchases, because those drugs have already been consumed: If that were true, then wouldn't their ship have sailed? Meaning there will never be any more active transactions to set up or catch in the act. They had 2 years to make all the busts they could, so is it safe to assume their main goal was to shut the site down, go after DPR, and either nail the big time VENDORS, and shut them down as well?
Also, I'm curious about this "image" I'm hearing was made of the server only up until July 23, 2013. Does this mean that they only have past transaction records and messages between that time frame, or can we assume that they also have from July until now as well?
I cannot wait until more light is shed on exactly how the entire process worked, from the placing of an order until its finalization.
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so is it safe to assume their main goal was to shut the site down, go after DPR, and either nail the big time VENDORS, and shut them down as well?
I can't tell you it's safe to assume anything, but I don't think they're coming after individual buyers. The people at the top end of the ladder are far more interesting to LE.
Also, I'm curious about this "image" I'm hearing was made of the server only up until July 23, 2013. Does this mean that they only have past transaction records and messages between that time frame, or can we assume that they also have from July until now as well?
Well if they have a server image, then they can probably view your purchasing stats and the transactions you had within the month or so before it imaged and any open transactions you had.
That doesn't mean they know who you are.