Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Tripazoid on June 05, 2013, 05:59 pm
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Hi,
After 30 successful transactions, I've just had my first "bad" one and not sure what is the best way to deal with it......
I ordered a product last week, which arrived this morning. Before finalizing, I immediately tested it with Marquis reagent and got no color change at all. The reagent is good as I used it to test another arrival yesterday. So I'm sure the product is bunk.
I have sent a PM to the vendor and explained that the test shows the product to be something other than advertised, and that I am currently unwilling to finalize the deal, giving the vendor a chance to explain and put it right before I release the BTC and leave 1/5 feedback.
I know that it's early days yet, so I haven't had a reply to the PM, and I'm just thinking ahead and trying to preempt any possible issues. Having only had good buying experiences up until now, I'm not sure what the best way to deal with this is.
If I don't finalize and let it go to resolution instead, then I don't have the chance to warn other SR buyers about this vendor before they get ripped-off, and my own stats may suffer. I've spent about 40 BTC on SR so far, and this order was less than 1 BTC, so my stats won't suffer much, but I want my stats to stay perfect if possible.
Should I just finalize, take the loss in stride, keep my good stats, and leave low feedback to warn others...... or should I let this go to resolution eventually?
Either way, I'll wait a few days to see if the vendor is going to respond to my PM..... but it's good to think ahead :)
Thanks :)
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Good call not FE, and maybe open a support ticket if no response from vendor after 48hours or so.
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If you don't want a refund to show in your stats then you should just finalize. I've done this myself, If I'm not happy with any aspect my experience I will constructively convey that in the feedback. I have only had one transaction go bad, and it wasn't because of the seller but because of the product. And I said as much in the feedback. The seller did everything else right but the product was just bad. You can always update what you write so if the seller comes back and really helps you out then change your feedback to reflect that. I never left a 1/5 though, I would only take a point, maybe 2 for a bad product. I mean its points right, they should get a point for good stealth, point for quick shipping, point for good packaging, a point for communication, and a point for a good product, at least that is the way I see it.
Sounds like you haven't received a response yet right? Of course if they come back and say no this is real you just don't know, then I may take things a bit further because I hate bad customer service.
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Speaking as a vendor, one bad transaction out of thirty isn't going to be a big deal. Shit happens here, vendors know it, and if you've done that many orders and only one has been bad, I can all but guarantee vendors will overlook it. If it really is an issue, just tell them what happened. If they STILL give you shit about bad stats, you probably don't want to order from them anyway.
But straight-up bunk product? I think that's worth letting others know. Depending on the vendor's response or lack thereof, it might even be good to open a support ticket and/or report the vendor. If this person is selling 100% fake shit then they need to be shut down for scamming.
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Speaking as a vendor, one bad transaction out of thirty isn't going to be a big deal. Shit happens here, vendors know it, and if you've done that many orders and only one has been bad, I can all but guarantee vendors will overlook it. If it really is an issue, just tell them what happened. If they STILL give you shit about bad stats, you probably don't want to order from them anyway.
But straight-up bunk product? I think that's worth letting others know. Depending on the vendor's response or lack thereof, it might even be good to open a support ticket and/or report the vendor. If this person is selling 100% fake shit then they need to be shut down for scamming.
^well said.
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Thanks for the replies :)
Based on what you guys are saying, I'll give the vendor 48 hours to respond then take it from there. If no response by then, maybe I will open a support ticket.
This vendor has been on the road for quite a while, with previously good stats. Recently they had an issue with selling a product which was advertised as something else. But based on forum posts, it appeared that it was a genuine mistake and they reshipped the correct product or made refunds. This is a different product from the same vendor, which I took a chance on as their stats appeared to have recovered since the incident. So maybe it was my own fault for being naiive.
I don't want to name the product or the vendor just yet, as it may be a genuine mistake that the vendor will put right, but if I don't get any response from them then I will post on their forum thread.
Thanks :)
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I had something similar happen to me when I was still early on SR. Your best bet is to try and work it out with the vendor and see what kind of comprise can be made. Most of the vendors on here are pretty decent people and sometimes mistakes do happen especially if they are having it drop shipped. It sounds like it was a honest mistake though. If nothing gets resolved though I would leave honest feedback and to let others know of your experience.
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If you don't want a refund to show in your stats then you should just finalize. I've done this myself, If I'm not happy with any aspect my experience I will constructively convey that in the feedback. I have only had one transaction go bad, and it wasn't because of the seller but because of the product. And I said as much in the feedback. The seller did everything else right but the product was just bad. You can always update what you write so if the seller comes back and really helps you out then change your feedback to reflect that. I never left a 1/5 though, I would only take a point, maybe 2 for a bad product. I mean its points right, they should get a point for good stealth, point for quick shipping, point for good packaging, a point for communication, and a point for a good product, at least that is the way I see it.
Sounds like you haven't received a response yet right? Of course if they come back and say no this is real you just don't know, then I may take things a bit further because I hate bad customer service.
Best advice I've seen in a while. +1 K.
As blueskies says, a small refund rate out of 30 transactions won't matter to the majority of vendors. So if you can't get satisfaction working it out with the vendor, then when the resolve link is clickable, click away. But keep in mind proving bunk is hard to do so figure on a 50% refund in resolutions. Vendor will probably propose 0% and you'll propose 100% and SR staff will meet in the middle. Knowing that, you can probably get the vendor to give you a 50% refund without having to go through resolutions. Some will transfer it direct to your account and then you can finalize. OR you might have to finalize first and then they will give it to you from that direct to your account. Only issues here are trust and the refund might be a little less than 50% to account for SR fees.
But be flexible. Shoot for 100% refund or reship at first while discussing with vendor. But if vendor counter offers 50%, take it. You won't do much better in resolutions and you won't have a refund reflected in your stats. Plus if all goes well, you'll have your refund sooner. SR resolutions can take a while and if vendor offers a reship in resolutions, that will delay things a bit.
Personally, I like to unstress myself as soon as possible and move on. I've only had 2 bad experiences out of well over 100 transactions. No refund rate though. The one time I had to use resolutions, the vendor skipped out on everyone. So that refund didn't count towards refund rate. The other time I worked it out with the vendor.
The only time I ever FE'd was with a vendor I had a good relationship with. I almost got burned. But he came through for me but not for others unfortunately.
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I don't have any advice to give but I want to say I admire the way you're concerned about others not being scammed when you could have just thought about your own self interest.
Good job!
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If you don't want a refund to show in your stats then you should just finalize. I've done this myself, If I'm not happy with any aspect my experience I will constructively convey that in the feedback. I have only had one transaction go bad, and it wasn't because of the seller but because of the product. And I said as much in the feedback. The seller did everything else right but the product was just bad. You can always update what you write so if the seller comes back and really helps you out then change your feedback to reflect that. I never left a 1/5 though, I would only take a point, maybe 2 for a bad product. I mean its points right, they should get a point for good stealth, point for quick shipping, point for good packaging, a point for communication, and a point for a good product, at least that is the way I see it.
Sounds like you haven't received a response yet right? Of course if they come back and say no this is real you just don't know, then I may take things a bit further because I hate bad customer service.
I kind of disagree.. I think the product is way more important then stealth or packaging or communication.. especially when it comes to feedback/finalization!
You're paying for the drugs, man. The rest is icing on the cake. I never compromise on product.
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Thanks for the replies :)
Based on what you guys are saying, I'll give the vendor 48 hours to respond then take it from there. If no response by then, maybe I will open a support ticket.
This vendor has been on the road for quite a while, with previously good stats. Recently they had an issue with selling a product which was advertised as something else. But based on forum posts, it appeared that it was a genuine mistake and they reshipped the correct product or made refunds. This is a different product from the same vendor, which I took a chance on as their stats appeared to have recovered since the incident. So maybe it was my own fault for being naiive.
I don't want to name the product or the vendor just yet, as it may be a genuine mistake that the vendor will put right, but if I don't get any response from them then I will post on their forum thread.
Thanks :)
Can you PM me vendor name? I think i used this vendor recently...
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If you don't want a refund to show in your stats then you should just finalize. I've done this myself, If I'm not happy with any aspect my experience I will constructively convey that in the feedback. I have only had one transaction go bad, and it wasn't because of the seller but because of the product. And I said as much in the feedback. The seller did everything else right but the product was just bad. You can always update what you write so if the seller comes back and really helps you out then change your feedback to reflect that. I never left a 1/5 though, I would only take a point, maybe 2 for a bad product. I mean its points right, they should get a point for good stealth, point for quick shipping, point for good packaging, a point for communication, and a point for a good product, at least that is the way I see it.
Sounds like you haven't received a response yet right? Of course if they come back and say no this is real you just don't know, then I may take things a bit further because I hate bad customer service.
Best advice I've seen in a while. +1 K.
As blueskies says, a small refund rate out of 30 transactions won't matter to the majority of vendors. So if you can't get satisfaction working it out with the vendor, then when the resolve link is clickable, click away. But keep in mind proving bunk is hard to do so figure on a 50% refund in resolutions. Vendor will probably propose 0% and you'll propose 100% and SR staff will meet in the middle. Knowing that, you can probably get the vendor to give you a 50% refund without having to go through resolutions. Some will transfer it direct to your account and then you can finalize. OR you might have to finalize first and then they will give it to you from that direct to your account. Only issues here are trust and the refund might be a little less than 50% to account for SR fees.
But be flexible. Shoot for 100% refund or reship at first while discussing with vendor. But if vendor counter offers 50%, take it. You won't do much better in resolutions and you won't have a refund reflected in your stats. Plus if all goes well, you'll have your refund sooner. SR resolutions can take a while and if vendor offers a reship in resolutions, that will delay things a bit.
Personally, I like to unstress myself as soon as possible and move on. I've only had 2 bad experiences out of well over 100 transactions. No refund rate though. The one time I had to use resolutions, the vendor skipped out on everyone. So that refund didn't count towards refund rate. The other time I worked it out with the vendor.
The only time I ever FE'd was with a vendor I had a good relationship with. I almost got burned. But he came through for me but not for others unfortunately.
Same here, I like to nip things in the bud as quickly as possible rather than sitting around waiting for things to happen..... it's less stressful.
I would be ok with the vendor offering me 50% refund to finalize, although my feedback would still reflect that. I would probably give 4/5 for the vendor at least making an effort.
As yet, no communication from the vendor. The PM shows as having been read, and the vendor was logged-on yesterday and today, so I think they are just ignoring me.
@Goldenrod -
Thank you. But right now I feel that I am not helping the community by sitting around waiting for the vendor to respond while they could be scamming others. On the other hand, not giving the vendor chance to respond would be unfair on the vendor. Personally, if I were a vendor, I would want to put my customers' minds at ease straight away, but vendors can get pretty busy sometimes so timely response is not always possible.
@Colorblack -
I agree. Doesn't matter how well-packaged and how quickly-shipped the product was if the product is useless. If the product was shipped in error, then fair enough (5/5 because the vendor acknowleged the error and re-shipped good product). But if the vendor knowingly shipped bunk, then they don't deserve any feedback points at all. It's hard to know whether something is an error or intentional, but the listing said "Reagent tested, lab grade", and I did my own reagent test which disproved it..... and there's nothing else in the vendors' listing that would resemble what I received, so I'm thinking: scam.
@Eleanorrobot - sent you a PM
Thanks again for all the helpful advice everyone! This is what makes SR so much better than buying on the street :)
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How old is your test kit? And have you stored it in the refrigerator?
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@Ruby123 - My test kit is good. I had used it the previous day on some MDMA and got the expected color change to dark purple. The product received and tested the following day was supposed to be MDA - and I got no color change at all. Any MDxx should show similar colors with Marquis.
My PM to the vendor was never answered, and was shown as read the same day. A follow-up PM the day after has not even been opened, despite the vendor's page showing that he has logged-in every day since. So now I feel that it is fair to mention that the bunk product is "MDA - reagent tested, lab grade" listed by TheMangledOne2012.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=152953.30
He previously sold Methylone as MDMA (not to me), but this did appear to be a genuine mistake which he appeared to have mostly put right..... and there is no recent negative feedback on his page. But now the same thing has happened with a different product and his lack of communication for almost 4 days suggests that he is indeed scamming people.
Now I'm glad I haven't Finalized. If it goes to resolution, my stats can take the hit. The constant advice on these forums (Never, ever, ever FE) is good advice!!!
Ah well, we live and learn :)
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Im not doing good on my 2nd buying experience. I have been waiting 4 days to get my coin back from charletta because he didnt send my order..
It would be nice If vendors would cancel an order if they didnt want to sell to some one Because if they dont, they hold up your coin. >:(
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Im not doing good on my 2nd buying experience. I have been waiting 4 days to get my coin back from charletta because he didnt send my order..
It would be nice If vendors would cancel an order if they didnt want to sell to some one Because if they dont, they hold up your coin. >:(
What's the spelling on that vendor? It's a familiar name, and I tried a few spellings but can't find them.
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@Ruby123 - My test kit is good. I had used it the previous day on some MDMA and got the expected color change to dark purple. The product received and tested the following day was supposed to be MDA - and I got no color change at all. Any MDxx should show similar colors with Marquis.
My PM to the vendor was never answered, and was shown as read the same day. A follow-up PM the day after has not even been opened, despite the vendor's page showing that he has logged-in every day since. So now I feel that it is fair to mention that the bunk product is "MDA - reagent tested, lab grade" listed by TheMangledOne2012.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=152953.30
He previously sold Methylone as MDMA (not to me), but this did appear to be a genuine mistake which he appeared to have mostly put right..... and there is no recent negative feedback on his page. But now the same thing has happened with a different product and his lack of communication for almost 4 days suggests that he is indeed scamming people.
Now I'm glad I haven't Finalized. If it goes to resolution, my stats can take the hit. The constant advice on these forums (Never, ever, ever FE) is good advice!!!
Ah well, we live and learn :)
Finalizing Early really means finalizing as soon as it's marked in transit. Usually a condition agreed upon by the buyer.
Aside from that technicality, there's no "If it goes to resolution" You have to start the process. Unless you're still waiting it out until the last day.
Which I would have a hard time doing, considering all the facts.
What would be weird is if it still produced the same effects, even though it isn't the specific chemical ordered.
Sometimes just initiating the "Resolution" is enough to get their attention.
I've done it, where the vendor contacted me, and we worked something out, and I was able to take it out of resolution, and extend the time for a re-ship.
I hope it all works out for you! Just offering my perspective.
Good Luck!
Chip 8)
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Well the vendor had finally got back to me and apologized for the mishap- looks like he was ripped-off as well!
In his defense, he has offered a 100% refund if I return the product, a discount on something else, or a freebie. I'm happy with those options.
@Chip Douglas - What would be weird is if it still produced the same effects, even though it isn't the specific chemical ordered.
As it happens, it appears that the effects may be similar to MDA, although I haven't ingested it myself. I'm a bit nervous dosing on an unknown chem.... maybe some further tests (Mandelin, Mecke) will help reveal its nature :)
I can't stress enough the importance of having your own test kit if you're selling or ingesting chemicals. Mislabeled products or incorrectly identified substances can be dangerous, and people have died from them!
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Im not doing good on my 2nd buying experience. I have been waiting 4 days to get my coin back from charletta because he didnt send my order..
It would be nice If vendors would cancel an order if they didnt want to sell to some one Because if they dont, they hold up your coin. >:(
What's the spelling on that vendor? It's a familiar name, and I tried a few spellings but can't find them.
Sorry! It was chaletla. I was able to cancel yesterday and got my coin back after 4 days of waiting .
I hope other vendors on Sr don't do the same. There is nothing worse than making an order and getting no product, no response message and/or coin back for over 4 days.
Vendors should have the courtesy to cancel the order if they don't feel comfortable selling to some one for any reason they may have.
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See that! This system works!
Thanks to DPR and staff.
I myself am just a customer like the rest of you, and butting my nose in others business is not easy for me to do, though I was taught that since I was
helped early on, by many a patient forum member, my way of repaying has to be by doing the same. It's like volunteer work.
Make sure you all do the same!
- Chip
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Unfortunately the way the current implementation is in SR, it might be better to just finalize and take the loss. However, in principle you should take a ticket up with support. There's this idea that if your buyer stats will be messed up, you're worse off than before. I think that's a bad system.
I have a 1% auto-finalize rate due to a single order in which I had an incident occur that left me unable to use tor for a few weeks. I haven't had future issues. I say bring it up with support.
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In my opinion this is the worse kind of mistake a vendor can do. So there should be a consequence for the vendor when mishaps like these happens. I would say 4/5 if the vendor gives full refund and is nice about it, and 1/5 for anything else.
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Bo Bo, these vendors are a law unto themselves. Ignore you if you're transaction history is under 5 orders.
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Unfortunately the way the current implementation is in SR, it might be better to just finalize and take the loss. However, in principle you should take a ticket up with support. There's this idea that if your buyer stats will be messed up, you're worse off than before. I think that's a bad system.
I have a 1% auto-finalize rate due to a single order in which I had an incident occur that left me unable to use tor for a few weeks. I haven't had future issues. I say bring it up with support.
How do you check your own stats?
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How do you check your own stats?
Hit account at the top of the SR page. Then on the right, click purchasing stats. :)
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A lot of good advice was given, and a lot of good points made. This is what's great about forums.
I only wish I'd gotten into forums sooner. I was never that kind of guy, but surprise, I guess I was!
You're never too old to learn. ;)
Also, I get the fear of that bad mark on your stats. I swallowed a few losses because of that fear. I didn't dare share about it on here, nor even ask another member what to do, for fear of shame, and being laughed off the boards.
Silly human I am. I know.
It seemed these forums were a rougher place a year ago, though perception is everything.
Just because things seem in harmony when all ends well, don't get too comfortable. Always be on guard.
You may be talking to LE.
You may be DEALING w/LE.
That's right. A vendor could be LE. I don't know of a case yet, but it's totally feasible. The perfect 'sting' operation. Scrutinize new vendors especially.
If anything LE reads this forum. They gather intel. They're learning from me right now, which is why I'm going to leave it at that.
Don't let your guard down!
See you all on another page sometime, I'm sure.
It's been real.
-Chip