Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: darkone879 on April 12, 2013, 12:25 am

Title: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: darkone879 on April 12, 2013, 12:25 am
*Edit* Poor title, I meant only people who canceled orders.

I'm going to be upfront. I think we should. I agree that the vendors have the ability to pull listings if bitcoin goes down. I don't think it's right but they do have that ability. Shouldn't we, as a community, value those vendors that didn't? I think yes.

I think an easy and effective way to show that we value them would be to make a list of those that did pull listings as the value started to drop. Alternatively, we could make a list of known vendors that still did ship. Either way, it achieves the same goal. I'm not saying we say "NEVER BUY FROM THIS GUY AGAIN!!!" I'm saying we say "Ok this guy is known to pull listings if bitcoin prices drop so be careful if the market is volatile"

Vendors would be more than welcome to explain why they may have pulled listings. I think we can all agree that having more vendors that honor prices whether they go up or down would benefit the community, so why don't we do something about it?

This is bigger than me or my story, it's about how we want this community to work in the future. We know for a face there are going to be bitcoin fluxuations in future, and really SR doesn't offer much protection to buyers in these cases so it seems to me that our only recourse is to take matters into our own hands.

Let me know what you think.




 

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: coachella420 on April 12, 2013, 12:34 am
It's their product. If they decide to randomly pull all listings, and cram every ouch of illegal matter into their anal orifice, they have that right. Your crying about not getting cheap drugs.

All this scary talk about lists, you know we have a vendors black list?

HOW DARE THAT FUCKING VENDOR CANCEL MY ORDER, I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT GRAM OF COKE FOR $5. THE NERVE OF THAT MOTHERFUCKER! GO BACK TO YOUR FUCKING GIANT YACHT AND HOT MODEL GIRLFRIENDS VENDOR! THIS IS A LOVING AND SHARING COMMUNITY, SO YOU SHARE YOUR FUCKING DRUGS OR IM GOING TO ORDER AND SAY IT NEVER ARRIVED, AGAIN.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: SamGiancana on April 12, 2013, 12:43 am
I fulfilled 30 orders last night, and sent them out this morning.
I have made a loss on all 30 orders of incredible amounts (most orders were 7 - 14 grams)
I could have opened up each envelope and took the drugs out and took a loss on the shipping labels, but I didn't.

HOWEVER I have now pulled my listings, why would I continue selling at 150 dollars a coin when they are worth 1/3 that amount? I'm not going to just lose money on all my orders, once SR correctly pins prices to the new bitcoin value I will continue selling.
I hardly doubt you would continue to ship out orders that you were losing money on darkone879.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: coachella420 on April 12, 2013, 12:46 am
I fulfilled 30 orders last night, and sent them out this morning.
I have made a loss on all 30 orders of incredible amounts (most orders were 7 - 14 grams)
I could have opened up each envelope and took the drugs out and took a loss on the shipping labels, but I didn't.

HOWEVER I have now pulled my listings, why would I continue selling at 150 dollars a coin when they are worth 1/3 that amount? I'm not going to just lose money on all my orders, once SR correctly pins prices to the new bitcoin value I will continue selling.
I hardly doubt you would continue to ship out orders that you were losing money on darkone879.

FUCK YOU SAM ITS ABOUT THE GOD DAMN COMMUNITY.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: EarlyCuylerTOR on April 12, 2013, 12:57 am
I think I agree with the vendors that pulling listings is ok.  However if a vendor cancels an order I think that should be discussed in length and added to some sort of list.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: demosthenes420 on April 12, 2013, 01:17 am
Interesting question.... I'd say it's their right and only a fool would fault them for it... but then when bitcoins are jumping sky high, they're making a killing, and buyers aren't able to cancel for 4 days.... So I'd argue that if you think it's ok for vendors to cancel orders cause bitcoins are falling, then you should support giving buyers the right to immediately cancel all the way up to the time it ships in case bitcoins are climbing.

I think the reality is that any vendor knee jerking their listings and orders are going to quickly find their business evaporating because the truth is that the days of bitcoins regularity are over. every day now on mtgox the volume of trades has been increasing... what used to be a volume of 20k bitcoins a day is now a volume of 250k bitcoins a day, and thats just the trade in USD... as such the value of bitcoins will most likely continue to be incredibly unstable. Big investors are in on it now and with no regulation, they can sell large amounts at high prices, cause the price to drop, then buy a ton at the new low price, causing it to climb, rinse and repeat. Any smart vendor will ignore the bitcoin value on day to day transactions, and set a baseline for turning bitcoins into cash that they exchange every time the value hits that number. They should be thinking long term, not short term.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: darkone879 on April 12, 2013, 01:21 am
And that's really the point Sam, why would you ever do that? Why not pull all your listings and cancel orders? It's well within your rights as a vendor to do that. I'm gonna to guess your answer be will something about keeping your customer base (could be wrong), but if you sold something that had a larger customer base say weed then it probably wouldn't matter as much. Maybe you're a nice guy and it would matter to you Sam, but I imagine to some people it doesn't. Just saying their should be something in place so at least you get some benefit from getting screwed over by honoring your current orders.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: coachella420 on April 12, 2013, 01:28 am
And that's really the point Sam, why would you ever do that? Why not pull all your listings and cancel orders? It's well within your rights as a vendor to do that. I'm gonna to guess your answer be will something about keeping your customer base (could be wrong), but if you sold something that had a larger customer base say weed then it probably wouldn't matter as much. Maybe you're a nice guy and it would matter to you Sam, but I imagine to some people it doesn't. Just saying their should be something in place so at least you get some benefit from getting screwed over by honoring your current orders.


I THINK ITS TIME SAM GAVE EVERYONE ON SR FREE DRUGS.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Thestral1 on April 12, 2013, 01:55 am
Vendors are well within their rights to pull listings in a volatile market. If the BTC value shoots up and then takes a dive then it's just good business sense to protect yourself, because a few large transactions could put the vendor who doesn't have a lot of capital out of business.

The tricky thing is honoring orders that have already been placed, and dealing with each situation in a tactful way. I highly respect vendors like SamG who honored those orders, and don't blame him in the least for pulling them temporarily until certain issues are ironed out. It's his choice.

I'm currently in the middle of a similar situation: I placed an order for two items on Monday evening, when the BTC value was hovering around where Mt. Gox currently has the weighted average pegged to. I figured that it was going up even higher, but I knew from experience that it would also fall back to a more reasonable rate, for myriad reasons. I didn't want to wait until it reached higher and higher, because I was concerned about having my order cancelled.

My two orders are still in the 'processing' stage. I recently inquired about the status of my order and I'm waiting to hear back. I hope my order isn't cancelled outright and that the vendor sees that my order wasn't placed anywhere near the peak, but the length of time that my orders have sat in limbo worries me a bit. I have plenty of flawless transactions under my belt but this is the first order with this particular vendor. Either way I've never bad-mouthed a vendor and I don't plan to start; by the same token I don't like that my BTC have been tied up all week. I would still never call out a vendor unless I was taken advantage of and felt an obligation to warn other buyers.

Vendors need the benefit of the doubt in this situation. I've been on the other side of the fence in a previous life and something like this could have disastrous results to a business. I simply expect a clear line of communication. If the vendor is doing something that doesn't appear to be good for the customer... Well, that's why we have these forums!

I think that most buyers would agree that they'd rather lose a really good sale than lose a really good vendor. At least that's how I see it.  :)
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Jediknight on April 12, 2013, 02:01 am
Awkward. . .

No canceling orders that were hedged.  That's wrong.

But of SR s calculations  are slow, then they have the right to pull listings because there is an error.   If its an error (miscalculation) then it's wrong.   

Quite simple.     But after the price balances out and SRs calculation is up to date.  Then too bad vendors.  Market is unstable but they win big time when it's the other way around. 

There are many vendors to choose from though.  I'm sure so
Somebody wants your business in his free market.   

Also, I'm sure everyone can wait a few hours for their drugs.  C'mon.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wotifbl on April 12, 2013, 02:14 am
Interesting question.... I'd say it's their right and only a fool would fault them for it... but then when bitcoins are jumping sky high, they're making a killing, and buyers aren't able to cancel for 4 days.... So I'd argue that if you think it's ok for vendors to cancel orders cause bitcoins are falling, then you should support giving buyers the right to immediately cancel all the way up to the time it ships in case bitcoins are climbing.

Canceling orders is a bit different than pulling listings, which is what I took to be the OP's question.

I think you have to respect a vendor that fills existing orders in that situation, and there is no reason to penalize them for pulling listings.

Canceling kind of sucks though, and I like your idea.
Unfortunately, it would probably just lead to vendors marking orders in transit prematurely.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Thestral1 on April 12, 2013, 02:21 am
Awkward. . .

No canceling orders that were hedged.  That's wrong.

But of SR s calculations  are slow, then they have the right to pull listings because there is an error.   If its an error (miscalculation) then it's wrong.   

Quite simple.     But after the price balances out and SRs calculation is up to date.  Then too bad vendors.  Market is unstable but they win big time when it's the other way around. 

There are many vendors to choose from though.  I'm sure so
Somebody wants your business in his free market.   

Also, I'm sure everyone can wait a few hours for their drugs.  C'mon.

Well put... JEDI.

(inside SW joke)
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: astor on April 12, 2013, 02:37 am
Buyers were doing the same thing when BTC was increasing. They stopped buying. They basically pulled their buy orders.

Should vendors black list buyers who didn't buy?

It's a free market and you can do what you want.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: visionenergy on April 12, 2013, 02:39 am
Come On man...how could you expect a vendor to keep selling knowing he is gonna lose money.  Your thought process is messed up friend.  The last I checked, people sell drugs to make money, and I'm pretty sure that applies to streets and online.

Now cancelling an order from before any sign of a drop is up for debate.  The way I see it.....With the amount of extra money the vendors have been making on btc uphill run.....they can afford to take a small hit on a few orders.  I think it would be a pretty shady move to cancel an order from the day before and fuck a buyer who might not have any money at all.  Thats just me.

I made a big order the day before and my vendor still shipped during the downward spiral.  So I gotta say I have one of the good ones.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: hopskiptrip on April 12, 2013, 02:40 am
I would be pissed if I had a order sitting the last couple days and it was canceled. Dealers haves every right to pull listing though. And yes some dealers would be screwed with the lower amount of BTC now, but what happens when the btc goes up again they will still have the btc unless they freak out and sell out at the bottom. Its like people who buy stocks sometimes you buy low and the price rises and sell, then other times you miss the top and have to hold.
I dont know just my two cents. I would not be surpised if this drop was not caused by some of the dealers here dropping mass amounts of btc into the market to try and cash in on the record highs.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: febbraio2468 on April 12, 2013, 02:43 am
I show up after the crash is over and find that buyers bought all my inventory to unload their bitcoins and covert them into product so they wouldn't be screwed. I am honoring all those orders even though I'm losing money six ways from Sunday. I am pulling my listing now and going on vacation until the bitcoin stabilizes. All orders made today will ship tomorrow Friday April 12, 2013. Also, all orders that were made today were hedged so nobody is losing anything so no reason to freak out.

If you were looking to invest in bitcoins now is time, buy low sell high is how the market works. Bitcoins will go up from here on out so buy now.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Tessellated on April 12, 2013, 02:45 am
OP, why do you think a vendor owes selling you something? If a vendor wants to take down their listings for ANY reason they can. There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

Canceling orders is another thing altogether.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RicFlairIsGod86 on April 12, 2013, 02:57 am
Tessellated, I made an order with you earlier today when BTC was 130. If you fill it, than quite frankly you are a fucking legend. I have a festival to go to next weekend and LSD is NON-EXISTENT there, DOx and METHYLONE and RCs everywhere. It was a 5-piece order.

BTC are going straight the fuck back up looks like anyway.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: demosthenes420 on April 12, 2013, 02:58 am
Interesting question.... I'd say it's their right and only a fool would fault them for it... but then when bitcoins are jumping sky high, they're making a killing, and buyers aren't able to cancel for 4 days.... So I'd argue that if you think it's ok for vendors to cancel orders cause bitcoins are falling, then you should support giving buyers the right to immediately cancel all the way up to the time it ships in case bitcoins are climbing.

Canceling orders is a bit different than pulling listings, which is what I took to be the OP's question.

I think you have to respect a vendor that fills existing orders in that situation, and there is no reason to penalize them for pulling listings.

Canceling kind of sucks though, and I like your idea.
Unfortunately, it would probably just lead to vendors marking orders in transit prematurely.

Yeah, pulling listings is totally legit considering the rolling 24 avg bitcoin price, its only cancelling orders that would be messed up. True that some vendors would mark in transit early, but that would most likely end up showing poor feedback regarding shipping times. Not the best obviously but at least it would make it somewhat fair for buyers... or perhaps giving vendors a %  or  # cancellation stat so buyers know who cancels orders when things are against them.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: coachella420 on April 12, 2013, 03:01 am
OP, why do you think a vendor owes selling you something? If a vendor wants to take down their listings for ANY reason they can. There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

Canceling orders is another thing altogether.

Yeah I agree with everything you just said above.
Can I have free LSD now? Nevermind, I will just ask in our weekly SECRET VENDOR MEETING over at the VENDOR ROUND TABLE.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wotifbl on April 12, 2013, 03:16 am
There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

I read the forum a lot even if I don't post much.  This is pretty much spot on.

I think sometimes people forget they are buying drugs on a black market.

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 12, 2013, 03:28 am
I'm going to be upfront. I think we should. I agree that the vendors have the ability to pull listings if bitcoin goes down. I don't think it's right but they do have that ability. Shouldn't we, as a community, value those vendors that didn't? I think yes.

I think an easy and effective way to show that we value them would be to make a list of those that did pull listings as the value started to drop. Alternatively, we could make a list of known vendors that still did ship. Either way, it achieves the same goal. I'm not saying we say "NEVER BUY FROM THIS GUY AGAIN!!!" I'm saying we say "Ok this guy is known to pull listings if bitcoin prices drop so be careful if the market is volatile"

Vendors would be more than welcome to explain why they may have pulled listings. I think we can all agree that having more vendors that honor prices whether they go up or down would benefit the community, so why don't we do something about it?

This is bigger than me or my story, it's about how we want this community to work in the future. We know for a face there are going to be bitcoin fluxuations in future, and really SR doesn't offer much protection to buyers in these cases so it seems to me that our only recourse is to take matters into our own hands.

Let me know what you think.
I am a vendor and I have kept my listings up. I am free to put them up and take them down whenever I want.
I think it is stupid to list vendors who pull their listings down. It is their choice. If you don't like it, too bad. There is nothing you can do except never order from them.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: BenJesuit on April 12, 2013, 05:22 am
OP, why do you think a vendor owes selling you something? If a vendor wants to take down their listings for ANY reason they can. There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

Canceling orders is another thing altogether.

+Karma. Seriously.

Vendors risk life and limb to sell us illegal stuff that if caught means they're giving up thier freedom. They must be rewarded for taking that risk. Unlike buyers, they have no plausible deniability to lean on.

Kids, listen up to the words of uncle Ben. This isn't eBay for crying out loud. Be happy you have a place to buy your drugs and someone to sell it to you. And remember to finalize on delivery day and leave a 5/5. Don't be *that* guy who thinks leaving a 4/5 is OK because of a minor issue before or even after contacting the vendor. It's either a 5/5 or a 1/5. The ratings in between are for professional use only.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 12, 2013, 05:42 am
OP, why do you think a vendor owes selling you something? If a vendor wants to take down their listings for ANY reason they can. There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

Canceling orders is another thing altogether.

+Karma. Seriously.

Vendors risk life and limb to sell us illegal stuff that if caught means they're giving up thier freedom. They must be rewarded for taking that risk. Unlike buyers, they have no plausible deniability to lean on.

Kids, listen up to the words of uncle Ben. This isn't eBay for crying out loud. Be happy you have a place to buy your drugs and someone to sell it to you. And remember to finalize on delivery day and leave a 5/5. Don't be *that* guy who thinks leaving a 4/5 is OK because of a minor issue before or even after contacting the vendor. It's either a 5/5 or a 1/5. The ratings in between are for professional use only.
+1

Buyers don't appreciate vendors enough. Buyers complain about the problems with vendors, but as a buyer and a vendor, I can tell you dealing with buyers is hell compared to dealing with vendors. Most buyers are good, but there are so many scamming ones or people who write the wrong address and then get angry when they don't get a reship or refund. Things like this annoy me. Remember, without vendors there is no Silk Road.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: colorblack on April 12, 2013, 05:51 am
To the OP - that is outrageous. You want vendors to go into massive loss? Get out of here dude. Did you have a problem when BTC was going up? NO. But you want vendors to honor listings that could lose them their ass? Vendors are the backbone of this entire place. Why would you want to hurt their bottom line? I'm not a vendor but I find that extremely selfish.
I am on Team Vendor all day!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: dothedamnthing on April 12, 2013, 05:55 am
OP, why do you think a vendor owes selling you something? If a vendor wants to take down their listings for ANY reason they can. There is a very misplaced sense of entitlement going on here.

Canceling orders is another thing altogether.

+Karma. Seriously.

Vendors risk life and limb to sell us illegal stuff that if caught means they're giving up thier freedom. They must be rewarded for taking that risk. Unlike buyers, they have no plausible deniability to lean on.

Kids, listen up to the words of uncle Ben. This isn't eBay for crying out loud. Be happy you have a place to buy your drugs and someone to sell it to you. And remember to finalize on delivery day and leave a 5/5. Don't be *that* guy who thinks leaving a 4/5 is OK because of a minor issue before or even after contacting the vendor. It's either a 5/5 or a 1/5. The ratings in between are for professional use only.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Too many of these kids (and others) have gotten way too comfortable with SR and everything that it offers. There is a lot being taken for granted. This attitude of "What do you mean I can't sit in front of my computer and anonymously order drugs to be delivered to my front door?" is becoming more and more prevalent. 
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: rrrop on April 12, 2013, 06:31 am
As a buyer, I'm siding with all of the vendors here. They should have the right to pull supply AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON, without question or acknowledgement, imo.

Cancelling placed orders on the other hand is an entirely different story, as I feel it is the vendor's responsibility to take the listing out before orders can be placed. Cancelling orders can just as equally screw over buyers.

If anything, praise the vendors who left their listings up and honored all orders placed, but not the other way around. And even this seems like more of a hassle than it's worth.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: sharonneedles on April 12, 2013, 07:06 am
AfterHour cancelled my order 12 hours after I placed it. I spent €200 ($260) for a bitcoin to buy his product and he completely screwed me over. I asked him nicely what happened and he gave me no satisfaction, writing in caps and acting like a child.

No this isn't a legitimate legal market like eBay. But at least have the decency to keep your word. If you have listings up then honour the agreement we made in the transaction. It's neither the vendor nor the buyers fault for the market crash but we all suffer together.

My business is going to another vendor as I'm being coerced. This wouldn't be a problem but I had a big choice of vendors and I chose AfterHours as he clearly had his listings up. Then he cancels and my coins drop a fifth in value. If he at least explained what happened nicely I would be fine with it. Someone said earlier that the vendors are the backbone of this site. Sorry but it's the buyers that fund the market. Without customers you don't have a business. I believe the customer is not always right but this time I was fucked over.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Kappacino on April 12, 2013, 08:06 am
Of course this is a free market and I respect the right of anyone to withdraw listing at any time for any reason, but vendors have been cashing out often double profits for the past months now. Many of them will have made an absolute killing. G-Analytics shows that some of the top vendors profits increased by 120%. PROFITS increased by that much.

I have a lot of respect for those vendors that have been making a killing, and chose to still honor their orders that were placed yesterday. It's not just vendors that lose out here. It's buyers too. Every single buyer that bought coins at above the current price, loses out (unless they go up again), and that's a lot of people.

What I have absolutely no respect for, is vendors that are currently saying things like "Pulled listings due to price drop, however I will honor all orders made during this time " on their profile page, then canceling those very orders. I just had weedmanuk pull this shit on me. Profile page says one thing, my inbox says another.

If you're going to cancel orders, that's fine, just be honest about it. Don't say one thing on your profile page then stab your customers in the back via PM.


Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: joolz on April 12, 2013, 09:12 am
wow thats me fuked then..  >:(
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: brainfreeze on April 12, 2013, 09:16 am
I didnt pull my listings I GOT WIPED OUT ha ha ;D. On Wednesday i got  wiped out and made huge losses but the two weeks running up to the crash i will be honest people who left there payment go to auto finalize i made a killing on that. So the way i look at it you take a good with the bad and no once did i think about canceling the orders even tho most were below cost price.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Norfolk83 on April 12, 2013, 09:25 am
As I mentioned in the other thread there has been instances in the past week when you could place an order in the evening and wake up to find that order would have cost you half of what you paid for it before you went to bed. And to makes things even worse, it hasn't even been shipped.

Having to wait 4 days as a customer before I can cancel an order is far too long during these volatile times.

Yes, Im sure some dealers have lost out in the past 24hrs but its a drop in the ocean to what the vendors with brains will have made in the couple of weeks leading upto the crash.

You didn't really think it could keep on rising at those levels..
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: joolz on April 12, 2013, 09:28 am
oh great getting fuked with refunds now  >:(
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Kappacino on April 12, 2013, 09:39 am
Personally I think buyers need a cancel option.

Many people bought items over the past month only to notice that their coins were worth double the next day.

Sellers have the convenience of being able to cancel if bitcoin prices drop but if they rise buyers have no such privilege?
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: davebowman on April 12, 2013, 12:21 pm
I messaged a vendor and asked them if there was a chance they might cancel the order I wanted to place because I saw they were unhedged, and there was a competitor who was hedged who I would have gone with in such a case. They told me they would not cancel but I didn't give them enough time to reply and I went with the hedged guy before hearing back because I happen to be a nervous, jumpy twat. But I would have gone with the first man if I'd heard back from him in time. Either way, I saw the situation and thought, why not simply ask first? Honesty and communication will get you everywhere in this world.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: strangeman on April 12, 2013, 12:46 pm
Full disclosure, I just lost some money because of vendors cancelling my orders, and now my 4/20 plans are in limbo. Vendors have every right to pull listings or cancel orders, but I sure as shit ain't doing business with the people who screwed me over ever again. A blacklist of cancelling vendors sounds a little over the top to me, but my heart doesn't exactly go out to any vendors who get called out over it.

The cornerstone of a free market is freedom of information. If I'd lost serious money like some people have, I'd definitely be naming and shaming and shitting all over their review threads. As it is, not really worth the trouble.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Razorspyne on April 12, 2013, 12:58 pm
I don't think it's right but they do have that ability.

I was under the impression that this would be up to the vendor and not the buyer? ::)

It IS their account, after all. You would tend to think they could handle making decisions about their own listings, independent of a buyer caucus review panel approving of their business decisions on their behalf?

Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Hungry ghost on April 12, 2013, 02:18 pm
Personally I think buyers need a cancel option.

Many people bought items over the past month only to notice that their coins were worth double the next day.

Sellers have the convenience of being able to cancel if bitcoin prices drop but if they rise buyers have no such privilege?

Yeah I think this is the problem. A lot of vendors have been going unhedged during the long steady Bitcoin  rise. I think this was extremely foolish and greedy. If you were hedged you had some protection against a sudden drop, although there is still the time it takes to cash out.
               The system is assymetrical, buyers are stuck for four days while a vendor watches the btc price to see if his gamble pays off.
         I don't blame vendors for cancelling orders in the circumstances but the option to cancel should be there for buyers too.
             A lot of vendors have been gambling on the rising market and winning for a while now; now they are losing and the SR system allows them to cancel their bet.
         I'm not sure of the solution though; as has been pointed out, allowing buyers to cancel at anytime before in transit would just cause vendors to mark in transit prematurely.
         
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: JezuzWazaMushroom on April 12, 2013, 02:22 pm
If you have placed an order and they do that then that's fucked because they should have hedged, but all vendors have every right to pull their listings down until the storm is over and they know where they stand. I predict it will go down under $10!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: BenJesuit on April 12, 2013, 02:32 pm
Personally I think buyers need a cancel option.

Many people bought items over the past month only to notice that their coins were worth double the next day.

Sellers have the convenience of being able to cancel if bitcoin prices drop but if they rise buyers have no such privilege?

That makes no sense. Think about it.

You place an order, then next day you decide to cancel to try to take advantage of BTC value.... BUT THE VENDOR SHIPS THAT AFTERNOON after you cancelled because the vendor in the process of shipping it to you. Now he has to go hound you for money? Some drug dealers might hound you in ways you might not like. They have your address after all. Don't kid yourself and think that as soon as they mark it shipped your address info is ether. They likely hold onto it until you finalize in case you pull some stunt they can throw the address back at you and show you how you submitted it. 

No, buyer cancellation after 4 days stays. Shorter and 90% of vendors would leave. OR mark orders in transit on day one, ship on day 3 or 4. Or day 7. Or 8. The 4 days is there to give the seller time to ship.

You can't win. Buy your drugs, close your eyes and wait for its arrival.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: nanpa2001 on April 12, 2013, 02:41 pm
Wow. Just wow. This thread is sick.

Vendor's are not your slave. They work voluntarily. Anything work besides that done of one's own free will is slavery.

Do vendor's make claims on your bitcoins, your labor, or your time? No? Then don't try to enslave others.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Hungry ghost on April 12, 2013, 03:08 pm
in fact, the more I think about it the worse it seems!
      some of the more financially astute SR members will know about futures and options.
       A future is a contract where A and B agree to exchange x amount of (commodity a) for y amount of (commodity b) at a set date in the future. It is a kind of gamble; A thinks the relative values of a and b will go one way, B thinks the opposite. when the time comes for completion, one will profit, the other will lose.
        An option is similar, except as the name suggests the trade is not compulsory:
         A sells B the option to exchange x for y at set date in future, However B is under no compulsion to do so; he will only make the trade if it is advantageous to him.
         The benefit to A is that he SELLS the option, basing the price on his estimate of the likely movement of relative price of a and b in mean time.

       under SRs current system, the buyer is GIVING the vendor an option to exchange x amount of drugs for y BTC, at anytime in the next four days that may seem best to the vendor.

          Even worse, until the vendor decides whether the trade will benefit him, he can tie up the buyers BTC. If he should decide the trade is not to his liking, he can return the buyers BTC. Since he will only be doing this if BTC have fallen, the buyer will have to swallow this loss.

          When you look at it this way the buyer is getting a very raw deal indeed!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Hungry ghost on April 12, 2013, 03:24 pm
Wow. Just wow. This thread is sick.

Vendor's are not your slave. They work voluntarily. Anything work besides that done of one's own free will is slavery.

Do vendor's make claims on your bitcoins, your labor, or your time? No? Then don't try to enslave others.
What in the nine billion names of god are you babbling about? No one is suggesting that vendors be enslaved.  People are merely pointing out that at times of BTC volatility, that four days a vendor CAN make claims on your Bitcoin  (while he decides whether the trade will benefit him or not) can seem like a long, long time.
         I guess we are suggesting that buyers be given the same freedom (to withdraw from a disadvantageous trade) that vendors have.

"do vendors make claims on your bit coins......or your time?" Yes. Four days. That's the problem, when the Bitcoin  is doubling and halving several times a day.
         I have no dogs in this fight myself by the way, I'm a naturally cautious financially, like Nassim Nicholas Taleb ( although fairly reckless with consumption of drugs) and the current Bitcoin  rise was too obviously a bubble for me to risk any transaction in the past week.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: cyanspore on April 12, 2013, 05:47 pm
some of us have to go in stealth mode or even vacation mode because of too many orders in one day
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: SunWu on April 12, 2013, 06:01 pm
Dear Sirs,

I think that its perfectly reasonable for sellers to make decisions based upon the market value, i dont think you guys realize how much money we've lost because of this crash, I wont be pulling out any orders but i may consider raising my prices, the products are still very cheap, but if you want to be apart of the community then support your vendors, we're providing you the best service we can even when we're taking a loss be grateful for tht.

 SunWu
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: knexx on April 12, 2013, 06:12 pm
On Monday I put in an order from a reputable vendor for a 50 hits of LSD, they didn't get it out or mark it as shipped yet. Today they removed all their listings. Hopefully they come through, they've made quite a presence here on SR which is why I ordered from them and I'm pretty worried that I'll have lost all my BTC if they cancel.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MendoHashMan on April 12, 2013, 06:26 pm
The fact is these sellers, myself included, decided to sell unhedged and play the market, they made lots of money in a few days and are all still very much ahead if they have been doing this for any amount of time. No one is going hungry because of this, each bitcoin is still worth more then it was 2 weeks ago, so if they are going to profit on the gain, they should loose on the fall. Pull your listings any time, but a sale should be honored. I have over 2500 in product in escrow that I will get less then 1k for, but I never stopped taking orders. There have been plenty of times that I had 1500 worth of orders in escrow and collected 2500, so I feel it should swing both ways, that is the way of life.

No list for those that pulled their listings, but there could be a heroes list of those that stuck around and honored sales.

There should Absolutely be a list for sellers that cancel, they are not good for the community and I would personally avoid them with my buyer account.

That's the opinion of this seller and buyer!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Diamond on April 12, 2013, 07:15 pm
Am I missing something about how the escrow system works? Wasn't it put in place to deal with this specific problem?

I thought once an order was finalized the vendors were paid out in a BTC amt equal to the USD amount they sold the product for. I've never dealt with refunds or hedging, so I don't know how it works from a buyers perspective. But I would think the buyer could potentially lose out more from that system.

Either way, vendors can pull listings all they want. Why the fuck not?
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MendoHashMan on April 12, 2013, 07:30 pm
Am I missing something about how the escrow system works? Wasn't it put in place to deal with this specific problem?

I thought once an order was finalized the vendors were paid out in a BTC amt equal to the USD amount they sold the product for. I've never dealt with refunds or hedging, so I don't know how it works from a buyers perspective. But I would think the buyer could potentially lose out more from that system.

Either way, vendors can pull listings all they want. Why the fuck not?

You are missing something, escrow is there to put the money into the hands of a trusted 3rd partyuntil you receive your purchase. Sellers have the option of hedged or unhedged, hedged gives you the dollar value from the time of purchase but unhedged gets the amount of bitcoins spent despite the rise or fall in value. any seller selling hedged is fine, but the unhedged sellers were gambling, I still am. And like all gambles, some times you're up and some times you're down, but you gotta stay in the game if you want to win!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Diamond on April 12, 2013, 09:04 pm

You are missing something, escrow is there to put the money into the hands of a trusted 3rd partyuntil you receive your purchase. Sellers have the option of hedged or unhedged, hedged gives you the dollar value from the time of purchase but unhedged gets the amount of bitcoins spent despite the rise or fall in value. any seller selling hedged is fine, but the unhedged sellers were gambling, I still am. And like all gambles, some times you're up and some times you're down, but you gotta stay in the game if you want to win!

Ok, for some reason, I thought all purchases went through the escrow system regardless. I don't seen an option to select that as a buyer, I hope I wasn't screwing anyone.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MendoHashMan on April 12, 2013, 11:51 pm

You are missing something, escrow is there to put the money into the hands of a trusted 3rd partyuntil you receive your purchase. Sellers have the option of hedged or unhedged, hedged gives you the dollar value from the time of purchase but unhedged gets the amount of bitcoins spent despite the rise or fall in value. any seller selling hedged is fine, but the unhedged sellers were gambling, I still am. And like all gambles, some times you're up and some times you're down, but you gotta stay in the game if you want to win!

Ok, for some reason, I thought all purchases went through the escrow system regardless. I don't seen an option to select that as a buyer, I hope I wasn't screwing anyone.

Still not quite getting it, yes all sales go to escrow, but hedged escrow and unhedged escrow are 2 very different things and only the seller can set that. The way is works, in theory, when you are hedged, DPR takes the money that bitcoin gains while in escrow, and protects the sellers if it drops like an insurance policy.

Say you buy a gram of my oil for 1 btc and 1 btc=50$ at the time of purchase, if btc becomes 100$ before you clear escrow and I am hedged, I will only get .5 BTC, still 50$ but less btc then you sent. If I am unhedged, I get the full amount of bitcoins you spent. Alternativly, if bitcoins are 50 when you purchase 1 and they drop to 25 and I am unhedged, it is my loss, not DPRs. If I'm hedged, SR is covering me like an insurance policy, but if you are unhedged, you are planning to cover your own insurance in case of an emergency/crash and therefore should be required to ship orders in my mind.

Sellers make plenty off inflation and should prep for deflation, I am not as well off as I was a few days ago, but I am still not hurting and I know there isn't a seller on here that is "broke" because of this. They really should ship orders regardless.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: WhiteShark on April 13, 2013, 12:47 am
Personally I had the most orders I ever had in a single day, 14 orders. Worst part is they FE so I am stuck with the low btc amount... sigh
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 13, 2013, 12:52 am
Personally I had the most orders I ever had in a single day, 14 orders. Worst part is they FE so I am stuck with the low btc amount... sigh
Just wait 2-3 days until you mark "in transit"?
or PM every buyer ans ask them not to FE?

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: WhiteShark on April 13, 2013, 02:31 am
I was about to do that but most of them were return buyers so they knew the drill and did it before I could send out a message. Oh well...
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Diamond on April 13, 2013, 08:39 am
Still not quite getting it, yes all sales go to escrow, but hedged escrow and unhedged escrow are 2 very different things and only the seller can set that. The way is works, in theory, when you are hedged, DPR takes the money that bitcoin gains while in escrow, and protects the sellers if it drops like an insurance policy.

Say you buy a gram of my oil for 1 btc and 1 btc=50$ at the time of purchase, if btc becomes 100$ before you clear escrow and I am hedged, I will only get .5 BTC, still 50$ but less btc then you sent. If I am unhedged, I get the full amount of bitcoins you spent. Alternativly, if bitcoins are 50 when you purchase 1 and they drop to 25 and I am unhedged, it is my loss, not DPRs. If I'm hedged, SR is covering me like an insurance policy, but if you are unhedged, you are planning to cover your own insurance in case of an emergency/crash and therefore should be required to ship orders in my mind.

Sellers make plenty off inflation and should prep for deflation, I am not as well off as I was a few days ago, but I am still not hurting and I know there isn't a seller on here that is "broke" because of this. They really should ship orders regardless.

Ah ok. The Hedged version was how I thought *all* sales were executed on SR. So I placed a couple orders when BTC was around $100, but didn't end up finalizing until a few days later, when coins were almost double. So those vendors, if the sales were unhedged (and I believe they were) really made out assuming they cashed in the coins quickly.

That I didn't get. I think that alters my opinion a bit. I still think vendors should be able to pull a listing at any time, but probably should be fulfilling orders regardless.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: oldcactushand on April 13, 2013, 09:05 am
I think there's some misunderstanding here (or maybe it's mine!). The problem for vendors with this crash was not hedging/unhedging. The problem was that SR was saying BTCs were worth, for example, $120, when you'd actually only get $60 upon cashing out. Hedging could not protect from this, because it was hedged to SR's approximation of the value of Bitcoin, which was for some time much much higher than the actual value of Bitcoin.

Jesus of Rave has explained what happened to him/them in their thread in the Product Offers section, and they explain it much better than me. I'm not sure about the rights and wrongs of cancelling orders, I haven't thought about it that much and was lucky enough to have spent all my coins last week. But it seems to me that temporarily pulling listings when you are only receiving half of the money for each sale you make is a completely reasonable response, at the very least until you can get your head round the situation.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 13, 2013, 10:34 am
Why do so many people complain about how SR values the btc. How they do it is PERFECT! As perfect as it is ever going to get. THEY ARE NOT SLOW. They do the exact same thing they have done for over 1 year.  In the exact time frame! It is a 24 hour average and the way they do it...helps ALL members...not just the vendors...but the buyers as well.

When you guys go to Mt.Gox and see it is $150 per coin then you come to SR and see it is $120 or even $220 that is just fine. In fact it is PERFECT. It is as perfect a system as you can get. The fact is SR uses a 24 hour weighted average. And that is GREAT for the buyers. It allows you to know where the coin value is going to be. And it is great for vendors to as you have the same information. There is NOTHING wrong with a vendor pulling listings. NOTHING. How anyone does not understand stand this just go's to show you how stupid people are in these forums. If SR was to update every minute or even 5 minutes as Mt.Gox does it would be terrible for SR. In fact it is ludicrous to even bring that up..so I will move on. That would/will never happen and all of you should understand why that is a good thing.

The fact is 99% of buyers only buy BTC so they can then buy drugs on SR. And if you have any kind of smarts...like an IQ over 90... you will never lose any money on the btc. And if you are smart enough to purchase your coins from someone that sell them to you at the current SR rate and not the Mt.Gox rate...then you will always have it good. Meaning you pay for the btc at $90 per coin...then you make a purchase on SR at $90 per coin. Bingo..you just used the btc wahat it was meant for on SR. To buy drugs.

There have been WAY MORE buyers that have paid for an item at the rate of $120 per coin...THEN the btc go's up to $150 per coin and they try and get the vendor to cancel the order so they can reorder at the higher price. That is laughable. And it is one of the reasons you as a buyer can not cancel an order until the 4 day mark...if in fact the vendor has not shipped your item.  That has happened a lot more then vendors cancelling orders because of the btc crashing.

The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that. If they do you should be pissed and you should never buy from them again. On the other hand if you bought a pound of weed at $3500 and the btc was valued at $200 per coin when you made the purchase and 1 hour later it is $90 per coin then you should understand why the vendor would want to cancel it.

Notice I said  "should understand". I didn't say you should like it. Nor did I say it was right of them to do it. In fact I already said that is bullshit and should NEVER happen.

 Of course you would not like that if it happened to you. Just like you do not like when you make a purchase for $3500 at the value of $100 per coin and the next day before the vendor has not marked it in transit ..and the value of the btc is now $220. You would want the vendor to cancel the order so you could then place the same order and you the buyer would be able to place that order and still have  left over $1000 in btc left. That would be nice.

But the truth it everyone, including the vendor should understand why you would want that....but they should not cancel your order. The fact is you paid $3500 for the pound...and even with the btc showing a value of $220 compared to the $100 it was when you made the purchase...you still paid the $3500 and the vendor still made the $3500. It makes no difference what the "value" of the coin has done...you guys have already made a deal. And the truth is...by the time you finalize the coin might be worth $90. But even when you finalize that does not mean that the vendor is going to get $90 for the coin. They may get $400.... if they are stupid they might get $80 per coin.

The truth is ALL OF US know that the btc fluctuates. And the fact is that everyone...most importantly....the vendors have seen in the last month the coin go from $60 to $260. And on a lot of days they saw it go up $30 per day or more. So no one should be caught off guard. No vendor should cancel an order because the btc has gone from $200 to $90!!! There is NO WAY a vendor didn't know that was or could happen. And if they were worried about that..then in the example like the one I gave you....the $3500 for a pound...that is enough money where the vendor should do one of  2 things...they should put their listings in HEDGE mode......OR they should not list an item because they are not willing to take the risk of it falling. Or there is a third option...they realize that the btc can "crash" at any minute...and while it was...they take their listings down. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a vendor taking a listing down. That is just smart. BUT it is TOTAL BULLSHIT if a vendor cancels an order because the btc has fallen too much! And if a vendor did that..then I totally understand you the buyer being pissed. And you should not make a purchase again. As I said...all vendors are well aware of the fluctuations of the BTC. So they should not have a listing up and take orders un-hedged if they are going to cancel the orders when it crashes. It would just show you that you are dealing with a moron vendor.

There is no excuse for a vendor saying he cancelled the order because of the btc falling. That vendor knew dam well that could happen. So on an item like a pound of weed...they should just have it hedged. The vendors that are in these forums crying because they sold a fucking gram of weed for $25 bucks...and now when the buyer finalized that $25 is $13 is a joke. First they knew that the btc could crash. Also for the last year...up until  a few days ago..all that has happened is that the btc has gone up. And for the most part when they sold that $25 gram...by the time the buyer finalized it was worth $40 or more!! And they were not complaining then. So they complain when they lose... that is laughable. Not only is it only a few bucks...but again they knew when they placed that listing...that the btc is going crazy..both ways...so they should be well aware. Also, and this is the most important part...it is always just "paper value" they are never "losing" money. Any good vendor, that is smart, should realize that it really makes no difference what the btc is day to day. As it makes no difference as they are not selling those coins for cash at those prices anyways. And again, any item that is real money, they either chose to not list it as the market is to unstable..or they choose to list it with the hedge option( though a really smart vendor knows that does not offer 100% protection) or they realize that in the short term..7 days they might see the value on paper of that btc go up or down 40% , they realize by the time they go to sell that btc it will in fact (based on the last 12 months) go up. Also they realize that it could have been a bubble and therefore they just decided to not list anything as they don't want to take the risk of selling something at a value of $100 per coin and when they have to sell it..it might be $60 per coin.

But this OP was stating how it is wrong for a vendor to take a listing down. AND THAT IS TOTALLY STUPID. What is wrong is for any vendor to cancel an order based on the fact that the btc has gone down. And it is just as wrong for a buyer to want to cancel an item because the btc has gone up. You the buyer realize that the btc can go up when you placed the order. If you thought it was going to go up...then do not place an order. What this OP said is about as stupid as it would be for a vendor to make a post that says......

" Should we the vendors make a list of the buyers that chose not to buy because they are waiting to see if the btc is going to go down or up?"(I think yes) As a community and for the better of the community, I think we need to make a list of all the buyers that did not buy in the past week. As that is bullshit they didn't make purchases"

How stupid does that sound? That is the EXACT same stupid thing the OP said. Luckily if you read the thread you will see all the smart members that said it is totally fine with the vendors  taking down listings. Of course it is OK. Just like it is totally ok with a buyer not making a purchase.

Also if a buyer wants to cancel an order because the value has gone up...you as a vendor should say ok... And you should also tell them that you will not take an order from them again.

And if you are a vendor that cancels an order because the btc went down..... you should not be vending. Not only is it fucked up to do that to a buyer...it really just shows how stupid you are and how you should not be a vendor.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: oldcactushand on April 13, 2013, 10:52 am
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 13, 2013, 11:01 am
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.
I received triple the number of orders I normally have. Most vendors have said they received a lot more orders than normal because buyers wanted to put their bitcoins somewhere before they lost more value. And today I have received very few orders (as have other vendors) because people are having difficulty buying bitcoins and are also scared of  the rate dropping again.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: EarlyCuylerTOR on April 13, 2013, 11:11 am

The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.
 

Apparently you didn't read my post on the first page then.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MrAnonymous on April 13, 2013, 11:17 am
All the people agreeing to this, are you for real?

Vendors are meant to lose out on huge amounts of cash coming in to their business because you want cheaper drugs?

I never pulled mine, but if I felt the amount of order would jeopardise my business in anyway, then fucking right I would have. You will never ever understand this till you try to run your own business.

That's just fucking selfish to say otherwise. You aren't think of the market here.. Imagine the best vendor for a particular substance on the road got 100 order while coins were at their lowest and he hadn't hedged, well if he goes through with it and decided to post all orders... Good Mr Vendor, you're probably broke now  ;D

Stop complaining. We as vendors are here to conduct business. I love this community as well, but I am a SR business man. You wouldn't go in to a regular store and complain about something so stupid, so don't come on here and do it.

Thank you
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 13, 2013, 12:43 pm
MrAnonymous, a vendor has a clear choice to either hedge or not hedge their orders. It is no one's fault other than a greedy vendor's, if they lost out big time with the current drop in the BTC rate. They took a gamble in not hedging their orders. Many probably cashed out a lot of coins prior to the crash and made some good money (and congrats to those that were smart enough to do so), but if the gamble didn't pay off and they got screwed, I don't believe it's fair of them to cancel an order a buyer has already made. There happy to reap the rewards when the prices were climbing but won't cop it on the chin when the reverse happens. Vendor RxKing got it right when he posted

Quote
The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.


Vendor's have every right to take down listings if they want to, until their comfortable with things again. However, any vendor who now cancels an order that has already been made because they were silly enough to not hedge them, should be avoided IMO. What about the huge profits you have made over the last month?? You can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. There is a thing called personable responsibility. The vendor is the one responsible for hedging or not hedging their orders. If you took a gamble and it didn't pay off, that's no ones fault but your own. Just as it would be totally wrong for a buyer to request a vendor to cancel an order just because his coins doubled overnight!!

Just as a vendor would have the shits with buyers cancelling orders that have already been made, buyers have every right to be pissed off with vendors cancelling theirs. Those vendors who put all their eggs in the one basket have no one other than themselves to blame and should take some personal responsibility for what happened. Vendor's who aren't so greedy, will always hedge their orders as it just makes  sense to do so. By hedging them, you're taking the fluctuations of the BTC Market out of play, even though there is a 6% fee. For a 6% fee, at least you will have peace of mind and not worry so much on what the market is doing each and every day.
The best vendors on SR wouldn't have had all their eggs in the one basket, meaning if something was to happen, they would eliminate the possibility of losing everything. Never bet more than you can afford to lose. Those that go "all in" rarely come out on top. That's what I was trying to portray before Dingo Ate My Drugs, but I fucked it up. Sorry about that.
This whole topic could have been avoided if vendor's chose to hedge their orders. It's as simple as that.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 13, 2013, 01:37 pm
MrAnonymous, a vendor has a clear choice to either hedge or not hedge their orders. It is no one's fault other than a greedy vendor's, if they lost out big time with the current drop in the BTC rate. They took a gamble in not hedging their orders. Many probably cashed out a lot of coins prior to the crash and made some good money (and congrats to those that were smart enough to do so), but if the gamble didn't pay off and they got screwed, I don't believe it's fair of them to cancel an order a buyer has already made. There happy to reap the rewards when the prices were climbing but won't cop it on the chin when the reverse happens. Vendor RxKing got it right when he posted

Quote
The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.


Vendor's have every right to take down listings if they want to, until their comfortable with things again. However, any vendor who now cancels an order that has already been made because they were silly enough to not hedge them, should be avoided IMO. What about the huge profits you have made over the last month?? You can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. There is a thing called personable responsibility. The vendor is the one responsible for hedging or not hedging their orders. If you took a gamble and it didn't pay off, that's no ones fault but your own. Just as it would be totally wrong for a buyer to request a vendor to cancel an order just because his coins doubled overnight!!

Just as a vendor would have the shits with buyers cancelling orders that have already been made, buyers have every right to be pissed off with vendors cancelling theirs. Those vendors who put all their eggs in the one basket have no one other than themselves to blame and should take some personal responsibility for what happened. Vendor's who aren't so greedy, will always hedge their orders as it just makes  sense to do so. By hedging them, you're taking the fluctuations of the BTC Market out of play, even though there is a 6% fee. For a 6% fee, at least you will have peace of mind and not worry so much on what the market is doing each and every day.
The best vendors on SR wouldn't have had all there orders unhedged. They may have had some unhedged or even be prepared to cop a loss if they didn't hedge them all and the rate suddenly dropped, having raked in huge profits over the past month to compensate.
This whole topic could have been avoided if vendor's chose to hedge their orders. It's as simple as that.
You can either hedge all items, or unhedge all items. You can't pick and choose which items are hedged or not.
And it's not as simple as that. Even hedged prices were affected. I'm too tired to find the long post about it from another thread, but the average bitcoin price over a 24hr eriod takes a play in it too.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RicFlairIsGod86 on April 13, 2013, 01:50 pm
I just had my fucking life ruined by a vendor (Kensho) cancelling on me after I ordered. I ordered at least 24 hours before the crash too. The fact that you you still had your listings up when you had no product to sell on hand is very telling.

Fucking likely to kill myself as this completely shatters my personal (it was ordered for my best friend), professional (I am a weed buyer for said friend, I was already $2900 in debt to him, now it's 4000, and he might not wanna order again, so now I have no way to pay him back), and social life.

I don't eat the first crumb of bread without buying weed. And now that might be all over, or at least severely fucked.

I gotta find a friend to talk me down from the ledge. I'm posting this from a building that is most certainly tall enough to die from falling from the roof of it. If you don't see me post tomorrow then you'll know what happened.

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: nanpa2001 on April 13, 2013, 01:56 pm
MrAnonymous, a vendor has a clear choice to either hedge or not hedge their orders. It is no one's fault other than a greedy vendor's, if they lost out big time with the current drop in the BTC rate. They took a gamble in not hedging their orders. Many probably cashed out a lot of coins prior to the crash and made some good money (and congrats to those that were smart enough to do so), but if the gamble didn't pay off and they got screwed, I don't believe it's fair of them to cancel an order a buyer has already made. There happy to reap the rewards when the prices were climbing but won't cop it on the chin when the reverse happens. Vendor RxKing got it right when he posted

Quote
The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.


Vendor's have every right to take down listings if they want to, until their comfortable with things again. However, any vendor who now cancels an order that has already been made because they were silly enough to not hedge them, should be avoided IMO. What about the huge profits you have made over the last month?? You can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. There is a thing called personable responsibility. The vendor is the one responsible for hedging or not hedging their orders. If you took a gamble and it didn't pay off, that's no ones fault but your own. Just as it would be totally wrong for a buyer to request a vendor to cancel an order just because his coins doubled overnight!!

Just as a vendor would have the shits with buyers cancelling orders that have already been made, buyers have every right to be pissed off with vendors cancelling theirs. Those vendors who put all their eggs in the one basket have no one other than themselves to blame and should take some personal responsibility for what happened. Vendor's who aren't so greedy, will always hedge their orders as it just makes  sense to do so. By hedging them, you're taking the fluctuations of the BTC Market out of play, even though there is a 6% fee. For a 6% fee, at least you will have peace of mind and not worry so much on what the market is doing each and every day.
The best vendors on SR wouldn't have had all there orders unhedged. They may have had some unhedged or even be prepared to cop a loss if they didn't hedge them all and the rate suddenly dropped, having raked in huge profits over the past month to compensate.
This whole topic could have been avoided if vendor's chose to hedge their orders. It's as simple as that.

This is the second time you have talked about hedging. Yesterday, even hedged vendors were not protected because SR wrongly displayed the weighted average of bitcoins.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 13, 2013, 03:03 pm
MrAnonymous, a vendor has a clear choice to either hedge or not hedge their orders. It is no one's fault other than a greedy vendor's, if they lost out big time with the current drop in the BTC rate. They took a gamble in not hedging their orders. Many probably cashed out a lot of coins prior to the crash and made some good money (and congrats to those that were smart enough to do so), but if the gamble didn't pay off and they got screwed, I don't believe it's fair of them to cancel an order a buyer has already made. There happy to reap the rewards when the prices were climbing but won't cop it on the chin when the reverse happens. Vendor RxKing got it right when he posted

Quote
The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.


Vendor's have every right to take down listings if they want to, until their comfortable with things again. However, any vendor who now cancels an order that has already been made because they were silly enough to not hedge them, should be avoided IMO. What about the huge profits you have made over the last month?? You can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. There is a thing called personable responsibility. The vendor is the one responsible for hedging or not hedging their orders. If you took a gamble and it didn't pay off, that's no ones fault but your own. Just as it would be totally wrong for a buyer to request a vendor to cancel an order just because his coins doubled overnight!!

Just as a vendor would have the shits with buyers cancelling orders that have already been made, buyers have every right to be pissed off with vendors cancelling theirs. Those vendors who put all their eggs in the one basket have no one other than themselves to blame and should take some personal responsibility for what happened. Vendor's who aren't so greedy, will always hedge their orders as it just makes  sense to do so. By hedging them, you're taking the fluctuations of the BTC Market out of play, even though there is a 6% fee. For a 6% fee, at least you will have peace of mind and not worry so much on what the market is doing each and every day.
The best vendors on SR wouldn't have had all there orders unhedged. They may have had some unhedged or even be prepared to cop a loss if they didn't hedge them all and the rate suddenly dropped, having raked in huge profits over the past month to compensate.
This whole topic could have been avoided if vendor's chose to hedge their orders. It's as simple as that.

This is the second time you have talked about hedging. Yesterday, even hedged vendors were not protected because SR wrongly displayed the weighted average of bitcoins.

And your point is.......?  ??? RxKing explains it beautifully. +1 for taking a common sense view which seems so obvious to me. Rx gives an honest assessment of how a vendor and buyer should proceed in situations such as this. If you don't like what he suggests, then IMO, you don't understand the meaning of being fair and honoring an agreement, a deal, you've already made. BTC will always be like this, although not always to the same degree. It will always fluctuate.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 13, 2013, 03:43 pm
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.


There is no fairness to those that cancelled orders!! The reason I believe this to be 100% true is vendors  have to be smarter then the buyers. They have to know a lot more then a buyer does. As a buyer just wants to buy his drugs and get them..they have very simple demands. And as a vendor there are a LOT  of things you need to know and practice. And one of them is you need to be aware of the market. Especially the rise and fall of btc. And if you are...then you would never be in a position that you would have to fuck over a buyer by cancelling an order.

You in fact just cement what I am saying even more! If indeed the items they are selling make up a huge % of overall sales...then that is even more reason for them to know what the fuck is going on and list items accordingly..KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Unless this was his first day of vending...at I take it was not... Then he was CRYSTAL  CLEAR what the btc has been doing. ...and he should have either put it in Hedge mode and they did not. That tells me that they were being greedy, and gambling...as I am sure they have the weeks before...and they were not prepared for the btc to dump. So the decided to save ass by fucking over the buyers and cancelling the orders...I am sure if the BTC had gone up...they would have had no problem. They are a perfect example of SHITTY VENDORS.

So there is no excuse. As a vendor you dont roll the dice and gamble....then when you crap out...you just say fuck it..I am going to cancel all the orders ...I mean that is total bullshit. It is even worse that you came in here and posted trying to defend the actions!!!! So they used the buyers money to place the game...then when the btc started going 50% down...they got out by cancelling the orders... How the fuck you don't see that is EXACTLY what they did and how stupid it is. And it is stupid because they did not have to do it that way.

Now this will be once again a vendor that will be pissed because he caught called out for some bullshit he did. And instead of owning up to it...and learning the ways where you never have to do anything like that...they will pout..stick out there dick and act as if there shit don't stink.

And I just reread your post...there is never something that justifies them cancelling there orders based on the value of the btc. NOTHING. EVER. but there are things of course where a vendor could do it. And this is totally different then a vendor taking down listings...that is totally fine as long as they fill the orders they have if any.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 13, 2013, 04:00 pm

The problem that people should be talking about is what if a vendor cancels an order on you because the BTC has dived. Well the truth is they should not do that.
 

Apparently you didn't read my post on the first page then.

No I did not...sorry..should i have?
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 13, 2013, 04:59 pm
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.


There is no fairness to those that cancelled orders!! The reason I believe this to be 100% true is vendors  have to be smarter then the buyers. They have to know a lot more then a buyer does. As a buyer just wants to buy his drugs and get them..they have very simple demands. And as a vendor there are a LOT  of things you need to know and practice. And one of them is you need to be aware of the market. Especially the rise and fall of btc. And if you are...then you would never be in a position that you would have to fuck over a buyer by cancelling an order.

You in fact just cement what I am saying even more! If indeed the items they are selling make up a huge % of overall sales...then that is even more reason for them to know what the fuck is going on and list items accordingly..KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Unless this was his first day of vending...at I take it was not... Then he was CRYSTAL  CLEAR what the btc has been doing. ...and he should have either put it in Hedge mode and they did not. That tells me that they were being greedy, and gambling...as I am sure they have the weeks before...and they were not prepared for the btc to dump. So the decided to save ass by fucking over the buyers and cancelling the orders...I am sure if the BTC had gone up...they would have had no problem. They are a perfect example of SHITTY VENDORS.

So there is no excuse. As a vendor you dont roll the dice and gamble....then when you crap out...you just say fuck it..I am going to cancel all the orders ...I mean that is total bullshit. It is even worse that you came in here and posted trying to defend the actions!!!! So they used the buyers money to place the game...then when the btc started going 50% down...they got out by cancelling the orders... How the fuck you don't see that is EXACTLY what they did and how stupid it is. And it is stupid because they did not have to do it that way.

Now this will be once again a vendor that will be pissed because he caught called out for some bullshit he did. And instead of owning up to it...and learning the ways where you never have to do anything like that...they will pout..stick out there dick and act as if there shit don't stink.

And I just reread your post...there is never something that justifies them cancelling there orders based on the value of the btc. NOTHING. EVER. but there are things of course where a vendor could do it. And this is totally different then a vendor taking down listings...that is totally fine as long as they fill the orders they have if any.

I'm so glad there are vendor's like RxKing who see things clearly and aren't afraid to tell it like it is. Everything he has posted is 100% correct. It's how a vendor should operate and any vendor with an opposing view is kidding themselves. To oppose Rx's view is a simple case of pure greed. You're happy to take a buyer's coins when the price is rising and make a nice profit but by the same token, when you take the same risk and things go the other way, instead of copping it on the chin and learning from your mistake, you try to justify your decision to cancel an order with a buyer because YOU made the mistake of not hedging your orders and are going to lose money. If a vendor can't see that by doing this you're undermining the confidence in the community of being able to place an order without fear of it being cancelled, then perhaps SR is not for them. They should stick to vending IRL with real cash. 
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Norfolk83 on April 13, 2013, 08:01 pm
Had one vendor cancel on me, only a small order for 0.45 btc, but they cancelled yesterday at what must have been a low point as I received 1.2btc back in my account..  :)

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Green Haze on April 13, 2013, 08:44 pm
Will not post a name of this vendor out of respect to them and that they got SCARED, just as many others, but they did cancel and then gave me the excuse "You did not include your name with your order". I am not very upset due to not losing much, but don't bullshit me.  :-[
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 13, 2013, 10:47 pm
Will not post a name of this vendor out of respect to them and that they got SCARED, just as many others, but they did cancel and then gave me the excuse "You did not include your name with your order". I am not very upset due to not losing much, but don't bullshit me.  :-[

How do you have respect for them??? Call them out...maybe you did in fact forget your name.. ;)
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Green Haze on April 14, 2013, 01:28 am
RxKing:  It is a copy paste thing there buddy. MAYBE something did get messed up, that is why I wouldn't name anyone. That is one aspect I am pretty careful about, but meh...  I guess respect is a word I shouldn't have used. I didn't lose much, they actually responded when I questioned it, and I am a big boy, so I try not to  :'(. Now, say that name started coming up here on forums as a scam or such, then yes I would verify with that story at least. Shit happens, but it was very coincidental timing and the first time I have ever heard that line.  ::)
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: oldcactushand on April 14, 2013, 09:35 am
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.


There is no fairness to those that cancelled orders!! The reason I believe this to be 100% true is vendors  have to be smarter then the buyers. They have to know a lot more then a buyer does. As a buyer just wants to buy his drugs and get them..they have very simple demands. And as a vendor there are a LOT  of things you need to know and practice. And one of them is you need to be aware of the market. Especially the rise and fall of btc. And if you are...then you would never be in a position that you would have to fuck over a buyer by cancelling an order.

You in fact just cement what I am saying even more! If indeed the items they are selling make up a huge % of overall sales...then that is even more reason for them to know what the fuck is going on and list items accordingly..KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Unless this was his first day of vending...at I take it was not... Then he was CRYSTAL  CLEAR what the btc has been doing. ...and he should have either put it in Hedge mode and they did not. That tells me that they were being greedy, and gambling...as I am sure they have the weeks before...and they were not prepared for the btc to dump. So the decided to save ass by fucking over the buyers and cancelling the orders...I am sure if the BTC had gone up...they would have had no problem. They are a perfect example of SHITTY VENDORS.

So there is no excuse. As a vendor you dont roll the dice and gamble....then when you crap out...you just say fuck it..I am going to cancel all the orders ...I mean that is total bullshit. It is even worse that you came in here and posted trying to defend the actions!!!! So they used the buyers money to place the game...then when the btc started going 50% down...they got out by cancelling the orders... How the fuck you don't see that is EXACTLY what they did and how stupid it is. And it is stupid because they did not have to do it that way.

Now this will be once again a vendor that will be pissed because he caught called out for some bullshit he did. And instead of owning up to it...and learning the ways where you never have to do anything like that...they will pout..stick out there dick and act as if there shit don't stink.

And I just reread your post...there is never something that justifies them cancelling there orders based on the value of the btc. NOTHING. EVER. but there are things of course where a vendor could do it. And this is totally different then a vendor taking down listings...that is totally fine as long as they fill the orders they have if any.

I get what you're saying, and I think it's great to see a vendor aggressively apply ethical standards to their business as you are doing. But I'm referring to the vendors that DID hedge their orders, the ones that were not trying to gamble. What about them?
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MrAnonymous on April 14, 2013, 09:42 am
I just had my fucking life ruined by a vendor (Kensho) cancelling on me after I ordered. I ordered at least 24 hours before the crash too. The fact that you you still had your listings up when you had no product to sell on hand is very telling.

Fucking likely to kill myself as this completely shatters my personal (it was ordered for my best friend), professional (I am a weed buyer for said friend, I was already $2900 in debt to him, now it's 4000, and he might not wanna order again, so now I have no way to pay him back), and social life.

I don't eat the first crumb of bread without buying weed. And now that might be all over, or at least severely fucked.

I gotta find a friend to talk me down from the ledge. I'm posting this from a building that is most certainly tall enough to die from falling from the roof of it. If you don't see me post tomorrow then you'll know what happened.


You're going to kill yourself over that? You're 4G in debt... Get a job to pay it off.


First rule in this business is: 'Never fuck with money you can't afford to lose.'
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MrAnonymous on April 14, 2013, 10:03 am
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.


There is no fairness to those that cancelled orders!! The reason I believe this to be 100% true is vendors  have to be smarter then the buyers. They have to know a lot more then a buyer does. As a buyer just wants to buy his drugs and get them..they have very simple demands. And as a vendor there are a LOT  of things you need to know and practice. And one of them is you need to be aware of the market. Especially the rise and fall of btc. And if you are...then you would never be in a position that you would have to fuck over a buyer by cancelling an order.

You in fact just cement what I am saying even more! If indeed the items they are selling make up a huge % of overall sales...then that is even more reason for them to know what the fuck is going on and list items accordingly..KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Unless this was his first day of vending...at I take it was not... Then he was CRYSTAL  CLEAR what the btc has been doing. ...and he should have either put it in Hedge mode and they did not. That tells me that they were being greedy, and gambling...as I am sure they have the weeks before...and they were not prepared for the btc to dump. So the decided to save ass by fucking over the buyers and cancelling the orders...I am sure if the BTC had gone up...they would have had no problem. They are a perfect example of SHITTY VENDORS.

So there is no excuse. As a vendor you dont roll the dice and gamble....then when you crap out...you just say fuck it..I am going to cancel all the orders ...I mean that is total bullshit. It is even worse that you came in here and posted trying to defend the actions!!!! So they used the buyers money to place the game...then when the btc started going 50% down...they got out by cancelling the orders... How the fuck you don't see that is EXACTLY what they did and how stupid it is. And it is stupid because they did not have to do it that way.

Now this will be once again a vendor that will be pissed because he caught called out for some bullshit he did. And instead of owning up to it...and learning the ways where you never have to do anything like that...they will pout..stick out there dick and act as if there shit don't stink.

And I just reread your post...there is never something that justifies them cancelling there orders based on the value of the btc. NOTHING. EVER. but there are things of course where a vendor could do it. And this is totally different then a vendor taking down listings...that is totally fine as long as they fill the orders they have if any.

I'm so glad there are vendor's like RxKing who see things clearly and aren't afraid to tell it like it is. Everything he has posted is 100% correct. It's how a vendor should operate and any vendor with an opposing view is kidding themselves. To oppose Rx's view is a simple case of pure greed. You're happy to take a buyer's coins when the price is rising and make a nice profit but by the same token, when you take the same risk and things go the other way, instead of copping it on the chin and learning from your mistake, you try to justify your decision to cancel an order with a buyer because YOU made the mistake of not hedging your orders and are going to lose money. If a vendor can't see that by doing this you're undermining the confidence in the community of being able to place an order without fear of it being cancelled, then perhaps SR is not for them. They should stick to vending IRL with real cash.


How many times do you need to be told... Even hedged orders were not safe.

SR fucked up and showed the wrong price for the BTC by 30 something dollars.



Without vendors this place doesn't work. You would think buyers would be a little more respectful, we risk our asses and go the extra mile and end up just getting bad mouthed.

Do you know how difficult it is being a vendor? How many idiots and scammers you have to put up with? You don't unless you vend.

So before you comment on it, please have a crack at vending and then tell us what your opinion is.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 11:49 am
First....as a vendor I have every right to take down MY listings whenever I please.

Who the fuck is that buyer telling me I cannot do that....make a LIST?
Where do you work, administration ?
 Don't buy from him till he clean up his act? The fucking arrogance!!

Like is been said many times before ....you would be nowhere with no vendors who take more risk and take all the afford to make it all to your doorstep.
And saying they are getting rich easy? You had that money too.... only you want to put it up your nose, vains or whatever  ;) 

The only thing I would not do is cancel an order after its in the orderlist, being there is an agreement to sell so to speak.
The order is there so I cannot/will not cancel

The reason I take a/my listing down is that the coins are dropping faster than SR -can- correct with the pegged prices.
Say at 1300 its 1btc $150.....1310 only 1btc $100.
SR is still at 1 btc/$150 for at least some time.
It should be 1.5btc in the listing so selling now I will loose 50 $

If the SR price would change just as fast as the MtGox there would be no problem at all....the dollar / coin would stable.
It does not matter if the value of a pill is 1 btc or 10 as long as the dollar/btc is pegged
That the coins are loosing value does not influence the selling.
There was a time...not so long ago that a coin was ahhhhh 5 euro/ 8 dollar and at that time a pill cost 5 coins a piece.

So, be happy there are vendors to get you your so much wanted and needed supply and respect what they do.
In general they have more know-how  about the business than you as a buyer.
And don't be so arrogant to think you can tell somebody to do something because you think they're doing wrong.
(vendor over a year now 500+ sales)


Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 14, 2013, 12:07 pm
I agree with the vast majority of what you've said. Just one more thing I'd throw in there in fairness to those who did cancel orders is that there was a large increase in the amount of orders when this was happening. JOR reported 5x as many orders or something.

If those orders make up a significant amount of total stock, and are selling for less than the amount the vendor originally paid for that stock, it could put someone out of business. And I imagine most people, given that they've decided to enter into a contract with the vendor, do not want such a thing to happen.

Obviously, we can never know the actual numbers of vendors operations, and this in itself makes it harder to judge whether a vendor is justified in cancelling some orders.


There is no fairness to those that cancelled orders!! The reason I believe this to be 100% true is vendors  have to be smarter then the buyers. They have to know a lot more then a buyer does. As a buyer just wants to buy his drugs and get them..they have very simple demands. And as a vendor there are a LOT  of things you need to know and practice. And one of them is you need to be aware of the market. Especially the rise and fall of btc. And if you are...then you would never be in a position that you would have to fuck over a buyer by cancelling an order.

You in fact just cement what I am saying even more! If indeed the items they are selling make up a huge % of overall sales...then that is even more reason for them to know what the fuck is going on and list items accordingly..KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Unless this was his first day of vending...at I take it was not... Then he was CRYSTAL  CLEAR what the btc has been doing. ...and he should have either put it in Hedge mode and they did not. That tells me that they were being greedy, and gambling...as I am sure they have the weeks before...and they were not prepared for the btc to dump. So the decided to save ass by fucking over the buyers and cancelling the orders...I am sure if the BTC had gone up...they would have had no problem. They are a perfect example of SHITTY VENDORS.

So there is no excuse. As a vendor you dont roll the dice and gamble....then when you crap out...you just say fuck it..I am going to cancel all the orders ...I mean that is total bullshit. It is even worse that you came in here and posted trying to defend the actions!!!! So they used the buyers money to place the game...then when the btc started going 50% down...they got out by cancelling the orders... How the fuck you don't see that is EXACTLY what they did and how stupid it is. And it is stupid because they did not have to do it that way.

Now this will be once again a vendor that will be pissed because he caught called out for some bullshit he did. And instead of owning up to it...and learning the ways where you never have to do anything like that...they will pout..stick out there dick and act as if there shit don't stink.

And I just reread your post...there is never something that justifies them cancelling there orders based on the value of the btc. NOTHING. EVER. but there are things of course where a vendor could do it. And this is totally different then a vendor taking down listings...that is totally fine as long as they fill the orders they have if any.

I'm so glad there are vendor's like RxKing who see things clearly and aren't afraid to tell it like it is. Everything he has posted is 100% correct. It's how a vendor should operate and any vendor with an opposing view is kidding themselves. To oppose Rx's view is a simple case of pure greed. You're happy to take a buyer's coins when the price is rising and make a nice profit but by the same token, when you take the same risk and things go the other way, instead of copping it on the chin and learning from your mistake, you try to justify your decision to cancel an order with a buyer because YOU made the mistake of not hedging your orders and are going to lose money. If a vendor can't see that by doing this you're undermining the confidence in the community of being able to place an order without fear of it being cancelled, then perhaps SR is not for them. They should stick to vending IRL with real cash.


How many times do you need to be told... Even hedged orders were not safe.

SR fucked up and showed the wrong price for the BTC by 30 something dollars.



Without vendors this place doesn't work. You would think buyers would be a little more respectful, we risk our asses and go the extra mile and end up just getting bad mouthed.

Do you know how difficult it is being a vendor? How many idiots and scammers you have to put up with? You don't unless you vend.

So before you comment on it, please have a crack at vending and then tell us what your opinion is.

+1

Spot on!
Every buyer who complains needs to try and be a vendor for a week. yes, vendors make money, but we put in a lot of effort and hard work and most of all take a massive risk. If we get caught we would go to jail. Unless buying large quantities, a buyer would not usually go to jail if they are caught.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: astor on April 14, 2013, 02:47 pm
The reason I take a/my listing down is that the coins are dropping faster than SR -can- correct with the pegged prices.
Say at 1300 its 1btc $150.....1310 only 1btc $100.
SR is still at 1 btc/$150 for at least some time.
It should be 1.5btc in the listing so selling now I will loose 50 $

Yeah, but for two months prior to the crash, you were making more money than the cost of your products. Since the BTC price was going up, the 24 hour average that SR uses was lower than the current BTC price at any time, and the buyer got charged more BTC (if the price was pegged to the dollar). So not only did you withdraw more BTC, but the price continued to rise until you cashed out, which for some vendors can be a few weeks.

Nobody complains when the going is good. Vendors were basically getting bonuses for 2 months, and the BTC crashed in one day, so then they cancelled orders, causing the buyers to lose money.

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 14, 2013, 02:50 pm
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..

There should not be one vendor cancelling orders because of the fall of the BTC. I have read the vendors explanations and they just say more stupid shit. They act as if they had no clue the btc was a currency that go's down just as fast as it go's up.

Some of these idiots placed their listings....then cancelled the orders and cost the buyers 50% of there money. All because THE VENDORS are  too fucking stupid to understand how the btc works. Then some have gone on to act as if they are an expert in btc and that  they fully understand the market. If I were a buyer I would be very pissed too! Every vendor should know EXACTLY what can happen with the btc when they place the listing up. And the truth is they do. They just decided to gamble with the buyers money and when it didn't go well..they just bailed out and stuck the buyer with the bill.

And then they have tried to get sympathy saying they have multiple orders and could have lost $1000 dollars if they did not cancel!!!! Oh really...a whole $1000 dollars? So instead of you losing $1000 you decide to stick 20 buyers for $50 each?  Then you want to offer your shitty product as "make up". If they can give the product as make up...then WHY THE FUCK DID THEY JUST NOT SHIP IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??????? IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE!

 There should not be ONE vendor that loses money ...well in fact they do not lose any money...but they lose perceived value... if they in fact went on to sell the btc they just got... right away at the low price they would then lose money. But who the fuck does that? I'll answer...NO VENDOR! Also every single  vendor should know the market and how the btc works. They should also be on top of shit...and if the btc falls on Mt.gox then they should take their listing down. They should still fill any order they have got as they knew dam well when they listed the item that the btc could fall. I mean this is elementary shit.

Things get even worse when other vendors chime in and say stupid shit like " Did you ever think that the vendor could have another 20 orders where they could lose $50"  How the fuck is that the buyers fault? On top of that...lets say the vendor does....ok so what? If the btc price went up $30 would they be cancelling the orders?

And again the MAIN POINT is that EVERY SINGLE VENDOR  knows about the btc. They all know EXACTLY what can happen and they should know that the btc can fall and that if it does and they have listing up that those listings will be affected. It is not like the btc has been $20 for the last 9 months...then in 1 hour it dove to $2 and it stayed there. Yet many have acted like that.

Yes, there are plenty of vendors that did not and would not ever do this. Yes, there are a lot of scummy buyers. This shit is well known to any vendor. And this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH VENDORS CANCELLING ORDERS BECAUSE THE BTC WENT DOWN AND THEN TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT WITH STUPID FUCKING "FACTS" ...LOL ....ABOUT THE BTC. No vendor is more pro vendor then me. But I am more pro "do business the right way" then pro vendor. And if something/someone is wrong then no one should make excuses for it/them just because they are a vendor. Be smart.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 14, 2013, 02:58 pm
First....as a vendor I have every right to take down MY listings whenever I please.

Who the fuck is that buyer telling me I cannot do that....make a LIST?
Where do you work, administration ?
 Don't buy from him till he clean up his act? The fucking arrogance!!

Like is been said many times before ....you would be nowhere with no vendors who take more risk and take all the afford to make it all to your doorstep.
And saying they are getting rich easy? You had that money too.... only you want to put it up your nose, vains or whatever  ;) 

The only thing I would not do is cancel an order after its in the orderlist, being there is an agreement to sell so to speak.
The order is there so I cannot/will not cancel

The reason I take a/my listing down is that the coins are dropping faster than SR -can- correct with the pegged prices.
Say at 1300 its 1btc $150.....1310 only 1btc $100.
SR is still at 1 btc/$150 for at least some time.
It should be 1.5btc in the listing so selling now I will loose 50 $

If the SR price would change just as fast as the MtGox there would be no problem at all....the dollar / coin would stable.
It does not matter if the value of a pill is 1 btc or 10 as long as the dollar/btc is pegged
That the coins are loosing value does not influence the selling.
There was a time...not so long ago that a coin was ahhhhh 5 euro/ 8 dollar and at that time a pill cost 5 coins a piece.

So, be happy there are vendors to get you your so much wanted and needed supply and respect what they do.
In general they have more know-how  about the business than you as a buyer.
And don't be so arrogant to think you can tell somebody to do something because you think they're doing wrong.
(vendor over a year now 500+ sales)

You are a shitty fucking vendor. AND A TOTAL FUCKING IDIOT.

It is not SR's fault you are fucking dumb as shit and terrible. Do you know what a 24 hour weighted average is? If you did then you would not type half the stupid shit you have. You have said so much WRONG, DUMB, STUPID shit I am convinced you are a girl.

You  have no clue what you are even talking about. And the fact you even say------

If the SR price would change just as fast as the MtGox there would be no problem at all....the dollar / coin would stable

Cements you are one of the stupidest fucking vendors on the road. Do everyone a favor and after you pull your listings, pull your vendor account.

That was the nicest way I could say that.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 14, 2013, 03:12 pm
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..

There should not be one vendor cancelling orders because of the fall of the BTC. I have read the vendors explanations and they just say more stupid shit. They act as if they had no clue the btc was a currency that go's down just as fast as it go's up.

Some of these idiots placed there listings....then cancelled the orders and cost the buyers 50% of there money. All because THE VENDOR is too fucking stupid to understand how the btc works. Then some have gone on to act as if they are an expert in btc and they fully understand the market. If I were a buyer I would be very pissed too! Every vendor should know EXACTLY what can happen with the btc when they place the listing up. And the truth is they do. They just decided to gamble with the buyers money and when it didn't go well..they just bailed out and stuck the buyer with the bill.

And then they have tried to get sympathy saying they have multiple orders and could have lost $1000 dollars if they did not cancel!!!! Oh really...a whole $1000 dollars? So instead of you losing $1000 you decide to stick 20 buyers for $50 each?  Then you want to offer your shitty product as "make up". If they can give the product as make up...then

Couldn't have put it any better than Rx has. I don't want to be a vendor. I'm happy being a buyer. If it's so hard to be a vendor, QUIT! No one's got a gun to your head! It does sound like you're out of your depth though and have no idea about running a business.

Quote
  How many times do you need to be told... Even hedged orders were not safe.

SR fucked up and showed the wrong price for the BTC by 30 something dollars.

Without vendors this place doesn't work. You would think buyers would be a little more respectful, we risk our asses and go the extra mile and end up just getting bad mouthed.

Do you know how difficult it is being a vendor? How many idiots and scammers you have to put up with? You don't unless you vend.

So before you comment on it, please have a crack at vending and then tell us what your opinion is.   

You risk your ass to make a big profits, either through volume of sales or large mark up's on the products you sell. With risk comes reward!! What buyer has respect for a vendor who cancels an order they placed because the vendor didn't hedge the listing and it suddenly dropped in value, costing him money?? Who's fault was it that you left the order unhedged hoping to reap a huge profit only to find things had bone the other way? I'm never going to respect anyone who rips others off!! Cancelling orders that were already placed is wrong and any vendor who did that should be avoided IMO. Buyers don't need vendors, you've got that around the wrong way. When you pack it in, another 2 will join SR. Without buyers, you wouldn't have a business. Pull your head out of your ass and stop acting like a little baby. You have to earn respect and people won't badmouth you if you do the right thing. If you can't comprehend that, then you're in for a cunt of a time. I don't need to have a crack at vending. I run a large company in real life, employing many people and turning over millions a year in revenue. This is about basic business principles and looking after the customers who keep you in business. Unfortunately, your opinion is to cancel orders and screw your "valuable" customers over to recuperate some of your losses. ??? ???   

Rx, you're on fire! :) You make complete sense to me mate.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 03:36 pm
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..

There should not be one vendor cancelling orders because of the fall of the BTC. I have read the vendors explanations and they just say more stupid shit. They act as if they had no clue the btc was a currency that go's down just as fast as it go's up.

Some of these idiots placed their listings....then cancelled the orders and cost the buyers 50% of there money. All because THE VENDORS are  too fucking stupid to understand how the btc works. Then some have gone on to act as if they are an expert in btc and that  they fully understand the market. If I were a buyer I would be very pissed too! Every vendor should know EXACTLY what can happen with the btc when they place the listing up. And the truth is they do. They just decided to gamble with the buyers money and when it didn't go well..they just bailed out and stuck the buyer with the bill.

And then they have tried to get sympathy saying they have multiple orders and could have lost $1000 dollars if they did not cancel!!!! Oh really...a whole $1000 dollars? So instead of you losing $1000 you decide to stick 20 buyers for $50 each?  Then you want to offer your shitty product as "make up". If they can give the product as make up...then WHY THE FUCK DID THEY JUST NOT SHIP IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??????? IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE!

 There should not be ONE vendor that loses money ...well in fact they do not lose any money...but they lose perceived value... if they in fact went on to sell the btc they just got... right away at the low price they would then lose money. But who the fuck does that? I'll answer...NO VENDOR! Also every single  vendor should know the market and how the btc works. They should also be on top of shit...and if the btc falls on Mt.gox then they should take their listing down. They should still fill any order they have got as they knew dam well when they listed the item that the btc could fall. I mean this is elementary shit.

Things get even worse when other vendors chime in and say stupid shit like " Did you ever think that the vendor could have another 20 orders where they could lose $50"  How the fuck is that the buyers fault? On top of that...lets say the vendor does....ok so what? If the btc price went up $30 would they be cancelling the orders?

And again the MAIN POINT is that EVERY SINGLE VENDOR  knows about the btc. They all know EXACTLY what can happen and they should know that the btc can fall and that if it does and they have listing up that those listings will be affected. It is not like the btc has been $20 for the last 9 months...then in 1 hour it dove to $2 and it stayed there. Yet many have acted like that.

Yes, there are plenty of vendors that did not and would not ever do this. Yes, there are a lot of scummy buyers. This shit is well known to any vendor. And this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH VENDORS CANCELLING ORDERS BECAUSE THE BTC WENT DOWN AND THEN TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT WITH STUPID FUCKING "FACTS" ...LOL ....ABOUT THE BTC. No vendor is more pro vendor then me. But I am more pro "do business the right way" then pro vendor. And if something/someone is wrong then no one should make excuses for it/them just because they are a vendor. Be smart.

You are so funny when you are angry and did not understand what it was about.

Every vendor does know....SR is late with correcting the prices.
Usually the prices are pegged so it does not make a difference in a ''normal'' situation but when it goes to fast it is just not up to date and you get say 1 bitcoin instead of 1.25 or 1.50.

I also said i would not cancel an order already in the orderlist so why so angry to me?
I said that if it was there it is an agreement, a deal. What is so shitty about that ?
Again, you are barking up the wrong tree (suppose I care of course LOL)
Yes we vendors make money and a lot too (when all is done well), are you jealous? Did you spend your money putting it up your nose or where ever?
I don't care, its your money but why angry at the ones selling it to you and because of that make a good profit?
You can write another a4 comments/insults......I don't care, I sit in the sun with a cocktail waiting for the orderlist to fill up en tomorrow I will ship it out and sit in the sun again.
How about you ?  :P

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 14, 2013, 04:08 pm
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 04:21 pm
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)

Dummy LOL.....I earned my way...over a year a vendor 500+ sales and !!!! 100% pos. feedback.
So who is he (or anybody else) to tell me what is right and what not.
Do you think I have the 100 rating for nothing ??
Like I said, in the orderlisting is final...will be send.
What is YOUR problem?

And btw....when you are so upset like that RK king? then you have a serious problem....
Relax, that is what I do ...yes the dumb ass is sitting in the sun (with my laptop just in case I want a laugh) enjoy my life.
CHEERS MATE !! LOL
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 14, 2013, 04:51 pm
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)

Dummy LOL.....I earned my way...over a year a vendor 500+ sales and !!!! 100% pos. feedback.
So who is he (or anybody else) to tell me what is right and what not.
Do you think I have the 100 rating for nothing ??
Like I said, in the orderlisting is final...will be send.
What is YOUR problem?

And btw....when you are so upset like that RK king? then you have a serious problem....
Relax, that is what I do ...yes the dumb ass is sitting in the sun (with my laptop just in case I want a laugh) enjoy my life.
CHEERS MATE !! LOL

What's your vendor name?? Enlighten us oh mighty one!  ::) ::) Why not post these comments under the name you use to sell products??
I'd love to know.  :D

Quote
First....as a vendor I have every right to take down MY listings whenever I please.

You wrote that or have you changed your mind? Which one is it?

Quote
The fucking arrogance!!

Like is been said many times before ....you would be nowhere with no vendors who take more risk and take all the afford to make it all to your doorstep.

There's a contradiction in terms if I've ever seen one. Buyers don't need vendors, but vendors need buyers. You're the one who needs to sell gear to make money where as I buy gear to enjoy myself with the money I earned elsewhere. If the vendor's left, I would still have money to buy drugs elsewhere where as if the buyers left, you'd be fucked. When ever there is competition in a market, it will always be a buyer's market.
RxKing actually sells Bitcoins amongst other things. It amusing to read a tool like you argue about Bitcoins with Rx. The guy knows them inside out.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Zenedar on April 14, 2013, 05:38 pm
I purchased a G of 2c-B from blueviking & he cancelled the order.

I totally understand his logic of cancelling, but still irritating to wakeup the next day and see ur order was not done correctly =/.

Understandable move, but annoying to (me) the consumer non the less.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 06:06 pm
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)

Dummy LOL.....I earned my way...over a year a vendor 500+ sales and !!!! 100% pos. feedback.
So who is he (or anybody else) to tell me what is right and what not.
Do you think I have the 100 rating for nothing ??
Like I said, in the orderlisting is final...will be send.
What is YOUR problem?

And btw....when you are so upset like that RK king? then you have a serious problem....
Relax, that is what I do ...yes the dumb ass is sitting in the sun (with my laptop just in case I want a laugh) enjoy my life.
CHEERS MATE !! LOL

What's your vendor name?? Enlighten us oh mighty one!  ::) ::) Why not post these comments under the name you use to sell products??
I'd love to know.  :D

Quote
First....as a vendor I have every right to take down MY listings whenever I please.

You wrote that or have you changed your mind? Which one is it?

Quote
The fucking arrogance!!

Like is been said many times before ....you would be nowhere with no vendors who take more risk and take all the afford to make it all to your doorstep.

There's a contradiction in terms if I've ever seen one. Buyers don't need vendors, but vendors need buyers. You're the one who needs to sell gear to make money where as I buy gear to enjoy myself with the money I earned elsewhere. If the vendor's left, I would still have money to buy drugs elsewhere where as if the buyers left, you'd be fucked. When ever there is competition in a market, it will always be a buyer's market.
RxKing actually sells Bitcoins amongst other things. It amusing to read a tool like you argue about Bitcoins with Rx. The guy knows them inside out.
Look....only the sheer panic amongst buyers that SR is down or vendors take down their listing make it clear enough who needs who.
I don't have a habit I need to feed.
There will always ! be buyers but good sellers are rare.
There will always be buyers here on SR because they are so fucking happy it is delivered to their doorstep.
They are afraid to get it on the street as many stated over time.
So again, always will be buyers, certainly when they find a good one like me and -as they say- the most reliable on SR.
I don't need to give my vendors name, that is not why I am here.
I certainly don't need to advertize my items, all sold to my regular buyers
Just came here to see what is going on.
Still ...it is funny to see that when I say I will always ship when ordered (not cancel) you say nothing.
When I say that I take down my listing (when no orders are there) you scream like hell and say I contradict myself.
Maybe you should read it....in de orderlist it will be shipped, no orders and btc problem, no listing.
When I see trouble I take my listing down, same as when I'm sold out....what is on a regular basis so I do something good LOL!!
Again....you can jump up and down and be good friends with a RxKING....I couldn't care less
So, again, I am here to see what is going on, for the rest not interested and for sure not in comments from people who think they know everything.
Even think they are entitled to be rude or down right assholes.
Only like to, like I said, sit in the sun in my beautiful country, looking over the blue see, drink my cocktails and enjoying my money coming in like water from the tap  ;D 8)
AGAIN....CHEERS !! ;D
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 06:27 pm
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..
 

Rx, you're on fire! :) You make complete sense to me mate.

 ;) Here is a feather Wadozo, I'm sure you want to put it up his ass....aaaghh creep -shivers-..... ???
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Wadozo on April 14, 2013, 06:54 pm
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..
 

Rx, you're on fire! :) You make complete sense to me mate.

 ;) Here is a feather Wadozo, I'm sure you want to put it up his ass....aaaghh creep -shivers-..... ???

Ohhhh. :'( :'( Won't post the name of your vendor's account. :'( :'( :'( I can comprehend exactly what you posted. It was you who posted this -

Quote
  First....as a vendor I have every right to take down MY listings whenever I please.

Who the fuck is that buyer telling me I cannot do that....make a LIST?
Where do you work, administration ?
 Don't buy from him till he clean up his act? The fucking arrogance!!

Like is been said many times before ....you would be nowhere with no vendors who take more risk and take all the afford to make it all to your doorstep.
And saying they are getting rich easy? You had that money too.... only you want to put it up your nose, vains or whatever  ;)   

Followed by this -

Quote
So, be happy there are vendors to get you your so much wanted and needed supply and respect what they do.
In general they have more know-how  about the business than you as a buyer.
And don't be so arrogant to think you can tell somebody to do something because you think they're doing wrong.
(vendor over a year now 500+ sales)

Talk about blowing your own trumpet!!  In your case, it's more like blowing your own dick! Put up or shut up champ! Let others be the judge and post your vendor's name? You won't cause you're a gutless little dumb fuck who thinks his shit doesn't stink. Come on, I'd love to visit your store and see what all the fuss is about.  ::) ::) ::) ::) :P If you were half as good as you think you are, you'd be a legend. Any vendor with the guts to stand behind what he says would post his vending name. You hide behind another identity because you don't want anyone knowing how you truly feel. Bit worried it might affect business? If your not, POST IT!!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 07:10 pm
 ;D you are so funny.
I have nothing to prove to anyone.
So funny talking ''prove it''....we're not in high school.....not an cocky adolescent.
You let yourself get into a thing you had nothing to do with in the first place.
Remember what was the issue.....orderlist down or cancel orders??
I NEVER CANCEL ORDERS AND WHEN NO ORDERS I CAN TAKE MY LISTING DOWN WHEN I PLEASE.
I write in capitals, maybe you understand this way....doubt it but want to make the afford anyway if somebody does not understand the problem...always happy to help out  8)

And the funny thing is...I àm kinda a legend.
Shipping from EU and 95 % of my customers are from US, Canada, New Zealand and yes....even Asia and Australia.
Still 100% rate. That is something different than shipping US to US....
So yes, I am good, damn good !!

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: xbox123 on April 14, 2013, 07:46 pm
The fact is these sellers, myself included, decided to sell unhedged and play the market, they made lots of money in a few days and are all still very much ahead if they have been doing this for any amount of time. No one is going hungry because of this, each bitcoin is still worth more then it was 2 weeks ago, so if they are going to profit on the gain, they should loose on the fall. Pull your listings any time, but a sale should be honored. I have over 2500 in product in escrow that I will get less then 1k for, but I never stopped taking orders. There have been plenty of times that I had 1500 worth of orders in escrow and collected 2500, so I feel it should swing both ways, that is the way of life.

No list for those that pulled their listings, but there could be a heroes list of those that stuck around and honored sales.

There should Absolutely be a list for sellers that cancel, they are not good for the community and I would personally avoid them with my buyer account.

That's the opinion of this seller and buyer!

I made a pretty good buy of some coin right in the middle of the crash and finally felt like it was my lucky day... felt like a gift for all the fees and loss in sale vs weighted value against buyers for the past month. One order where the vender hedged his coin marked my item in transit with in 24 hours. another vender was threatening buyers that he would cancel orders unless they came to a mutual loss of coin because he felt his loss wasn't equal to the gain he made this past month. i ended up spending 350 more dollars for him to value a a "free" 150 Dollars. im upset that i had to spend more but still happy i got a 500 dollar item for 350.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 14, 2013, 08:02 pm
The fact is these sellers, myself included, decided to sell unhedged and play the market, they made lots of money in a few days and are all still very much ahead if they have been doing this for any amount of time. No one is going hungry because of this, each bitcoin is still worth more then it was 2 weeks ago, so if they are going to profit on the gain, they should loose on the fall. Pull your listings any time, but a sale should be honored. I have over 2500 in product in escrow that I will get less then 1k for, but I never stopped taking orders. There have been plenty of times that I had 1500 worth of orders in escrow and collected 2500, so I feel it should swing both ways, that is the way of life.

No list for those that pulled their listings, but there could be a heroes list of those that stuck around and honored sales.

There should Absolutely be a list for sellers that cancel, they are not good for the community and I would personally avoid them with my buyer account.

That's the opinion of this seller and buyer!

I made a pretty good buy of some coin right in the middle of the crash and finally felt like it was my lucky day... felt like a gift for all the fees and loss in sale vs weighted value against buyers for the past month. One order where the vender hedged his coin marked my item in transit with in 24 hours. another vender was threatening buyers that he would cancel orders unless they came to a mutual loss of coin because he felt his loss wasn't equal to the gain he made this past month. i ended up spending 350 more dollars for him to value a a "free" 150 Dollars. im upset that i had to spend more but still happy i got a 500 dollar item for 350.

It is not right, once in the orderlist you have an agreement. You ship no matter what.
You cannot make a deal and pull out because it cost you some. Doing business here is on a gentlemen s agreement anyway....unfortunately...not many gentlemen here
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: MrAnonymous on April 15, 2013, 11:18 am
One of the BIG problems on here is the vendors that are dumb as shit. Unfortunately there seem to be quite a few lately..

There should not be one vendor cancelling orders because of the fall of the BTC. I have read the vendors explanations and they just say more stupid shit. They act as if they had no clue the btc was a currency that go's down just as fast as it go's up.

Some of these idiots placed there listings....then cancelled the orders and cost the buyers 50% of there money. All because THE VENDOR is too fucking stupid to understand how the btc works. Then some have gone on to act as if they are an expert in btc and they fully understand the market. If I were a buyer I would be very pissed too! Every vendor should know EXACTLY what can happen with the btc when they place the listing up. And the truth is they do. They just decided to gamble with the buyers money and when it didn't go well..they just bailed out and stuck the buyer with the bill.

And then they have tried to get sympathy saying they have multiple orders and could have lost $1000 dollars if they did not cancel!!!! Oh really...a whole $1000 dollars? So instead of you losing $1000 you decide to stick 20 buyers for $50 each?  Then you want to offer your shitty product as "make up". If they can give the product as make up...then

Couldn't have put it any better than Rx has. I don't want to be a vendor. I'm happy being a buyer. If it's so hard to be a vendor, QUIT! No one's got a gun to your head! It does sound like you're out of your depth though and have no idea about running a business.

Quote
  How many times do you need to be told... Even hedged orders were not safe.

SR fucked up and showed the wrong price for the BTC by 30 something dollars.

Without vendors this place doesn't work. You would think buyers would be a little more respectful, we risk our asses and go the extra mile and end up just getting bad mouthed.

Do you know how difficult it is being a vendor? How many idiots and scammers you have to put up with? You don't unless you vend.

So before you comment on it, please have a crack at vending and then tell us what your opinion is.   

You risk your ass to make a big profits, either through volume of sales or large mark up's on the products you sell. With risk comes reward!! What buyer has respect for a vendor who cancels an order they placed because the vendor didn't hedge the listing and it suddenly dropped in value, costing him money?? Who's fault was it that you left the order unhedged hoping to reap a huge profit only to find things had bone the other way? I'm never going to respect anyone who rips others off!! Cancelling orders that were already placed is wrong and any vendor who did that should be avoided IMO. Buyers don't need vendors, you've got that around the wrong way. When you pack it in, another 2 will join SR. Without buyers, you wouldn't have a business. Pull your head out of your ass and stop acting like a little baby. You have to earn respect and people won't badmouth you if you do the right thing. If you can't comprehend that, then you're in for a cunt of a time. I don't need to have a crack at vending. I run a large company in real life, employing many people and turning over millions a year in revenue. This is about basic business principles and looking after the customers who keep you in business. Unfortunately, your opinion is to cancel orders and screw your "valuable" customers over to recuperate some of your losses. ??? ???   

Rx, you're on fire! :) You make complete sense to me mate.


Okay.. Since you are a big hot shot IRL (  ::) ) lets look at it like this...


The government decides that all cash is now with double the price. $20 bills, now = $40 and so on. But your very large company can't adjust prices to make up for it... But the government has said this is going to last 3 days (lets say these are your 3 busiest days of the year)...


What are you going to do? You keep trading you lose a HUGE amount of cash. Or you shut shop.. You shut shop till it's over. All is well.


But.... OH SHIT!! You have a website and while this happened 100 people placed orders that equaled 10 mil in the old currency, but now you're only getting 5Mil for it and it costs 6mil to make and post and sell this shit.

So you haven't made any money and you either have the choice to lose a bunch of cash or refund peoples old money(meaning they might have to take the hit). So you refund and some people take a hit.. But you don't care, because you are running your own business and just saved yourself financially.

And please don't mention... 'That's different, you're talking about millions' in terms of the amount of money available to the business/vendor it's the same.


I do see where you are coming from, and I'm not trying to argue with you. But you can't possible comment until you are or have been a vendor and have been in the situation - it's unfair.


Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: tooconscious on April 15, 2013, 06:09 pm
wow RxKing, you have impressed me immensely. One of the most logical, objective, and intelligent posters I've encountered. The fact that you're a vendor and are able to articulate the real issue here instead of taking the biased stance of knocking down any criticism keeps me optimistic of SRs future, assuming you're not the only one who thinks that way. Many people here are disagreeing with you but it's clear they're on another argument, not addressing your points. namely, that it's completely the vendors' responsibility to be aware of the market, place smart bets or hedge, and never place bets with the buyers' coin. This isn't an attack on vendors and their ability to make money. it's an attack on stupid greedy vendors. Being a vendor alone shouldn't give you a green light to such shady practices simply because they're providing a product you want. There should absolutely be a level of honesty that includes not playing with other peoples money. I'll be fanning you immediately, you've won a customer in me.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: Razorspyne on April 16, 2013, 12:23 am
*Edit* Poor title, I meant only people who canceled orders.

I'm not convinced. Still, you can edit the title manually after you have have created it, it's simple. I don't think you should do this though, after 7 pages of intense debate about pulling listings. Too many opinions have been expressed here for you to simply change the thread title. And you can't simply delete this thread. If you do, you will eventually need to get a new username, and you will have to start all over again.

IMAHO, probably better to either lock (not delete) the thread, or even better, just leave it. Too late to change it.

Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: joolz on April 16, 2013, 12:25 am
no consumers right act on here mate lol
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 23, 2013, 07:58 am
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)

Dummy LOL.....I earned my way...over a year a vendor 500+ sales and !!!! 100% pos. feedback.
So who is he (or anybody else) to tell me what is right and what not.
Do you think I have the 100 rating for nothing ??
Like I said, in the orderlisting is final...will be send.
What is YOUR problem?

And btw....when you are so upset like that RK king? then you have a serious problem....
Relax, that is what I do ...yes the dumb ass is sitting in the sun (with my laptop just in case I want a laugh) enjoy my life.
CHEERS MATE !! LOL

If you have been here a year and you only have 500 sales...you really are a shitty vendor :)

What's even worse is that you claim to be a vendor, yet you won't give your vendor name. When people hide behind forum names...it really shows what a total fuck stick they are. If you want to hide behind a forum name and never tell anyone you are a vendor...ok. ....I mean that is your choice..BUT if you hide behind a name..then come in here and tell everyone you are a vendor and you have perfect feedback and blah blah blah blah..you really are a scumbag, I like scumbags btw...just not ones that hide.

I left this thread to early. As after I posted you  said even more stupid shit about the BTC prices and how SR doesn't update fast enough. Once again NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH!

SR updates the btc price as perfect as one could expect. It just shows that you...along with a lot of other people (but I expect a lot of buyers to not understand it) do not understand 24 hour weighted average. If you did...then you wouldn't say half the stupid shit you do. You would say the other half...but at least you could leave the btc talk out of it.

Well it is nice that once again the BTC is on the rise and we do not have to filter out all the threads of all the vendors, that do not know shit, complain about how SR updates the btc price. Though I suspect we are about to start hearing how btc is flying UP and SR is dragging on updating. I just hope before you guys post that bullshit..you actually try and understand 24 hour weighted average first.

Also I am sure no vendors are cancelling orders this week! (I still think buyers should out those idiots that stuck you ( the buyer) with the loses.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: blueveil on April 23, 2013, 10:23 am
We have and will continue to hedge all escrow and take a 4% hit over time to keep from having to pull listings or worry about market fluctuations. A 4% margin buffer isn't hard to install into your business plan even after the fact. Vendors that go unhedged deserve to loose money for playing with fire. BTC is too volatile to keep for longer than 1-2 weeks at this point, and you need to set up better ways of cashing yourself out if you don't have the ability to get rid of your entire BTC stash in under a week. Now when it comes to making lists and whatnot, this doesn't help ANYONE. It does nothing but cause drama on the boards and the site itself and is bad for PR. Please understand that some vendors are shady while others are truly on the up and up. We try to remain transparent as best we can in our store, but not everyone is so nice so just research carefully before ordering. Also ordering during extremely volatile times is a risk for the buyer as well since we as sellers have a RIGHT to cancel any order placed with us within 4 days per our agreement with DRP and the SR site. This is so WE can choose who WE do business with (also it keeps buyers from canceling an order while a vendor is in the process of shipping it out). At the same time, every buyer has the ability to research and choose the vendors that treat them the way they want. If you personally felt like someone screwed you over then simply don't order from them anymore. With few exceptions, no one vendor has a monopoly over any category that they do sales in, even for their home country in most cases. The only way to start lowering sales is for LEO to start getting us to not trust each other, and this type of behavior by just starting this thread is detrimental to the site as a whole. Bad vendors will start to drop once people stop using them, but one or two incidents during a VERY volatile period of trade is no excuse to start some sort of witch hunt...... Just some food for thought folks......
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 23, 2013, 12:51 pm
We have and will continue to hedge all escrow and take a 4% hit over time to keep from having to pull listings or worry about market fluctuations. A 4% margin buffer isn't hard to install into your business plan even after the fact. Vendors that go unhedged deserve to loose money for playing with fire. BTC is too volatile to keep for longer than 1-2 weeks at this point, and you need to set up better ways of cashing yourself out if you don't have the ability to get rid of your entire BTC stash in under a week. Now when it comes to making lists and whatnot, this doesn't help ANYONE. It does nothing but cause drama on the boards and the site itself and is bad for PR. Please understand that some vendors are shady while others are truly on the up and up. We try to remain transparent as best we can in our store, but not everyone is so nice so just research carefully before ordering. Also ordering during extremely volatile times is a risk for the buyer as well since we as sellers have a RIGHT to cancel any order placed with us within 4 days per our agreement with DRP and the SR site. This is so WE can choose who WE do business with (also it keeps buyers from canceling an order while a vendor is in the process of shipping it out). At the same time, every buyer has the ability to research and choose the vendors that treat them the way they want. If you personally felt like someone screwed you over then simply don't order from them anymore. With few exceptions, no one vendor has a monopoly over any category that they do sales in, even for their home country in most cases. The only way to start lowering sales is for LEO to start getting us to not trust each other, and this type of behavior by just starting this thread is detrimental to the site as a whole. Bad vendors will start to drop once people stop using them, but one or two incidents during a VERY volatile period of trade is no excuse to start some sort of witch hunt...... Just some food for thought folks......

 Hey brother.. I hear what you are saying...but there is a way better plan you could install and it would work for you real well. It is worth at least a look. We posted it in vendor forums, you must have not seen it,

Send me a Pm and I will set you up..See ya :D
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: AddyQueenHashKing on April 23, 2013, 06:16 pm
WE PRoudly honored all our orders and even kept our listing up ;)
Come check us out, we have intergalactic DMT, PharmAYUASCA, Adderall 30mg IR and XR, Hydrocodone 10/300, Xanax, Percocet, Organic Hash, and very soon chemist produced MDMA, lsd drops, mushrooms, and many more goodies..WE sell out often and sometimes it takes a week or two to get rolling again, but become a fan cause we have sick deals when we're rolling!
AQHK & Team
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 23, 2013, 06:28 pm
What the fuck is wrong with you dummy?  RxKing is a VENDOR and has been for a long time. Dumb, pompous upstarts like you, no doubt a youngster, haven't got a clue. Any buyer purchasing from a vendor with an attitude like yours will hopefully look elsewhere.
Humility is a lesson you'll learn the hard way. Sit in your chair and soak it up while it lasts champ!! :P ::)

Dummy LOL.....I earned my way...over a year a vendor 500+ sales and !!!! 100% pos. feedback.
So who is he (or anybody else) to tell me what is right and what not.
Do you think I have the 100 rating for nothing ??
Like I said, in the orderlisting is final...will be send.
What is YOUR problem?

And btw....when you are so upset like that RK king? then you have a serious problem....
Relax, that is what I do ...yes the dumb ass is sitting in the sun (with my laptop just in case I want a laugh) enjoy my life.
CHEERS MATE !! LOL

If you have been here a year and you only have 500 sales...you really are a shitty vendor :)

What's even worse is that you claim to be a vendor, yet you won't give your vendor name. When people hide behind forum names...it really shows what a total fuck stick they are. If you want to hide behind a forum name and never tell anyone you are a vendor...ok. ....I mean that is your choice..BUT if you hide behind a name..then come in here and tell everyone you are a vendor and you have perfect feedback and blah blah blah blah..you really are a scumbag, I like scumbags btw...just not ones that hide.

I left this thread to early. As after I posted you  said even more stupid shit about the BTC prices and how SR doesn't update fast enough. Once again NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH!

SR updates the btc price as perfect as one could expect. It just shows that you...along with a lot of other people (but I expect a lot of buyers to not understand it) do not understand 24 hour weighted average. If you did...then you wouldn't say half the stupid shit you do. You would say the other half...but at least you could leave the btc talk out of it.

Well it is nice that once again the BTC is on the rise and we do not have to filter out all the threads of all the vendors, that do not know shit, complain about how SR updates the btc price. Though I suspect we are about to start hearing how btc is flying UP and SR is dragging on updating. I just hope before you guys post that bullshit..you actually try and understand 24 hour weighted average first.

Also I am sure no vendors are cancelling orders this week! (I still think buyers should out those idiots that stuck you ( the buyer) with the loses.
Maybe I have real good stuff that is pretty rare and difficult to get....sold out every time before I get new.
Happy to have 500+ of those sales.
Not some weed or coke dealer.
Real funny that a guy like you (big know it all hot shot) is so anxious to know who or what I am....I couldn't care less about you.
Is that your ''strength'' putting people down because there is one small thing (like btc) that you know more about than the average person here?
So, find another victim who cares about what you have to tell them, I for sure am not  8)
Just sitting in the sun seeing my coins roll in  ;D
And I never cancel an order because I am fortunate enough not to care.....

 
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: RxKing on April 23, 2013, 07:08 pm
Wow..the more you post..the stupider you get. I do not give to fucks who you are. I could care less if you are a vendor or a bottom for  Vivid gay division.

anxious ?? Since you are sold out and you have nothing to do..since SR is down you cant count your coins..you should try reading this thread and see what you have said about me. All I have done is echo what EVERY single person in here has said. YOU ARE A MORON.

Then I read your post on BTC and it was so awful I had to comment. The fact you are a vendor(if you are) is so embarrassing that I had to come in here and remind the readers that they should not use you as a benchmark. And at that time I was just talking about btc and your take on it. For a vendor...you have the lest knowledge I have ever read.

Yes my strength is finding complete jackasses that have no fucking clue what they are talking about..yet the come into a thread and post away like they are DPR's right hand man. BTW only a fucking dumb cunt would say "put people down in a sentence" ..So embarrassing. Also realize I came into this thread to help others not you. In fact i pointed out how fucking wrong and stupid you are...and guess what...so did every single other poster in this thread.

Also genius, you keep coming after me! All I do is point out truths about you(since you seem to not be able to tell the truth about yourself) and I can't help it that you know nothing about the btc but you post as if you developed Mt.Gox. And you are not sitting in the sun... open your eyes...the heat you feel is from the logs in the fireplace that keeps you warm since you live in that shit part of the world that never see's 80*. And your not counting coins. You are just counting the same coin over and over and over. Because I will say it again, selling only 500 orders in the last year...you have no coin.

Also get it clear about yourself. I was pointing out how fucking lame it is...to claim you are a vendor yet you are in the forums hiding. You can't even admit who you are. And the real reason for that is because you know in these forums you come off as a total fucking retard.You come off so bad that you are in fact scared to give us your vendor account name. You have to be a total loser to come in here and claim you are a vendor yet you cant give out your vendor name...also the way you write is exactly how a girl would write. A really dumb one. Well that is every girl..

And you never cancel because you never get orders!! You only average 1 package a day. LOL And also...you totally care...if you didn't..you wouldn't talk about it...and you wouldn't be ashamed of yourself in here that you will not give out your vendor account. Also I realize you are not a vendor..but you can keep telling yourself you are. I don't give a fuck.

Just do us ALL a favor..and never talk about btc again. That was so poorly written on top of the fact that things you talked about as facts are in fact...totally wrong. You should be really embarrassed. You know...kinda like you are about being a vendor. At least admit you are a female...that is CRYSTAL CLEAR!

To sum up...please no more talk from you about the btc...you have written the 3 worst post ever written on SR about btc. Yes, you were that wrong and came off that stupid. That is what i cared about..the info..not the dumb cunt saying it. Also after 4...go back to 1.
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: jesse on April 23, 2013, 09:02 pm
 RxKing

    Hero Member
    *****
    Posts: 703
    Karma: +106/-65
    [thank] [discourage]
    The king is in the building   

THE KING IS IN THE BUILDING???? YOU MUST BE KIDDING RIGHT ?
And you say I am a moron?

Ever hear about megalomania?
 
Look it up, comforting to know there is a name for your problem.....  ::)
I only hear you talk about all the morons that are here on SR, how stupid they all are.
It must be hard for you all this ignorance, stupity...all the lowlife that is in the same place you are ...SR.
And like you said/asked, no, I am not a girl, (you don't like girls do you?)
I was! sitting in the sun but its evening now because I live in a very beautiful and warm EU country.
So, try to find some people you can bully or try to get a life
Reminder....you are not king, not god, just a poor soul who has issues, problems even but that is no concern of mine.
Have fun ....I know I have !!
Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: weedmanuk on July 17, 2013, 01:09 pm
Hey Kappacino, Just seen your post !

How immature are you, throwing your toys out the pram, sneaking over to the forums to bitch.

Anyone with any common sense would pull their listings if their going to lose thousands of pounds.

Really what a dumbass you are.

Title: Re: Should we, as community, make a list of those who pulled listings during crash?
Post by: kennypowders on July 17, 2013, 01:28 pm
Yo whatup though, this shit is retarded.