Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: cooked on July 31, 2013, 01:50 am
-
i know the reasoning is that SR does not sell products that harm others, but let me address this topic:
there are less than 5 legitimate sellers of counterfeit currency in the entire darknet. the only person selling USD is myself, and i do not know of any sellers of euros that are legitimate. there are tons of scam listings on BMR. melco on hackbb was selling 50 euro notes but stopped.
the reason this is significant is because if you allow counterfeit notes, it is going to have little influence on the site's reputation as there will only be one or two legitimate sellers with escrow etc.
counterfeit currency harms others just as much as fake IDs, fake documents (utility bills etc), and FAKE SILVER which is huge on silk road. 90% of the bills I make end up at a big box store, and are rarely used for scamming people on craigslist and the like. regardless, where do you think this fake silver is going? fake metals and coins are sold almost exclusively on craigslist, as there are little other places to move it.
I messaged SR support a couple of months back asking if I could sell counterfeit magic the gathering cards/sports cards and the response was yes.
if you are worried about what kind of attention it brings to the site, fake graded coins are already being sold on SR. these coins are famous in the coin grading community, with endless website entries on how to detect them, scams to avoid, etc. you have to have some fairly special connects to be able to make these things. there are also fake watches, which while a lot less potent, could scam a single person out of 10 grand.
and all I ask is that you allow one seller, being myself to sell his product. there won't even be any other sellers of it. there are several scam listings on BMR asking you to FE, but this likely won't be a problem on SR with the $500 activation fee.
i mean SR took away guns earlier this year and I am guessing they were allowed for the many years before that? how many people do you think have died because of an SR listing? counterfeit currency is absolutely nothing in comparison. The plethora of fake IDs and documents sold here are going mainly towards identity theft to wipe bank accounts clean
-
How the fuck do you make fake money?
-
I wonder why no fake bills for a long time.
I would welcome it absolutely so long as they were LEGIT.
cooked - if you would be willing to send me a few samples we could talk business.
I think people on SR associate bill printing with shady people. can you blame them?
-
I wonder why no fake bills for a long time.
I would welcome it absolutely so long as they were LEGIT.
cooked - if you would be willing to send me a few samples we could talk business.
I think people on SR associate bill printing with shady people. can you blame them?
everyone is shady, every seller of them is a scam. but I have a history of counterfeiting a lot more than just money, and I have the skills to do it. The reason you don't see more sellers of it is because it is very hard to do, and it's even harder to make bills that are passable in stores.
I've had maybe 30-40 orders mostly all on hackbb but I have a listing on BMR as well. http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/index.php?p=viewUser&id=256217
I doubt anyone has asked SR seriously to allow bills because there has not been anyone who would sell it legitimately on SR
if you want to talk about it you can torchat me 5xkoooz6cfoywpls or PM
-
If someone was to walk into your store and pay for your products with counterfeit bills, how would you feel?
-
the bills are all spent one at a time unless you want to take a stupid risk, and I don't know of a store that can't take a $100 loss. Yeah it hurts a mom and pop store more than it does a walmart, but these are businesses and not individuals. Counterfeit money can also be written off as a tax deduction, for the business or an individual. The bills can also travel from people to people before it's discovered as a counterfeit, usually it's not deemed fake until the money shows up at a bank.
I'm just saying, it's a fraction of what counterfeit silver, fake graded coins, fake watches, and identity theft contribute to.
-
Would be very interesting to see a legitimate vendor for this.
-
Hell yeah, I always wondered why no one was selling counterfeit USD. I would definitely buy some.
-
There will not be a "legitimate vendor for this" on SR because it is prohibited. It's prohibited because it's primary intention is to do harm to others.
-
There will not be a "legitimate vendor for this" on SR because it is prohibited. It's prohibited because it's primary intention is to do harm to others.
So why are there so many other listings that do nothing but harm individuals? With counterfeit currency most of it will be written off at a big store, harmless. It's no different then shoplifting in that aspect. There are graded coins on SR worth $15,000. You can't sell those to a professional because they would be identified as fake, their literal only purpose is to defraud an individual. The plated silver has the same function.
You allow the fake coupons, but you don't allow fake money? The entire forgery section is devoted towards identity fraud which hurts REAL people on a daily basis.
My argument is this -
1) You already allow items that have the same but MUCH MUCH more extreme function as fake money
2) I am the only seller of this so the impact it will have is little. You would not of taken guns away if there was only one seller of it
3) Fake bills are used primarily at thriving businesses, and the potential loss is only $100
I think you should at least give me a chance, and when I say "me" I mean legitimate sellers.
-
There will not be a "legitimate vendor for this" on SR because it is prohibited. It's prohibited because it's primary intention is to do harm to others.
So why are there so many other listings that do nothing but harm individuals? With counterfeit currency most of it will be written off at a big store, harmless. It's no different then shoplifting in that aspect. There are graded coins on SR worth $15,000. You can't sell those to a professional because they would be identified as fake, their literal only purpose is to defraud an individual. The plated silver has the same function.
You allow the fake coupons, but you don't allow fake money? The entire forgery section is devoted towards identity fraud which hurts REAL people on a daily basis.
My argument is this -
1) You already allow items that have the same but MUCH MUCH more extreme function as fake money
2) I am the only seller of this so the impact it will have is little. You would not of taken guns away if there was only one seller of it
3) Fake bills are used primarily at thriving businesses, and the potential loss is only $100
I think you should at least give me a chance, and when I say "me" I mean legitimate sellers.
The forgery section does NOT harm people, because no one is selling stolen identities or stolen credit cards. No one is harmed by a fake ID. Can it be used for harmful purposes? Probably. Does it inherently cause harm to others? Absolutely not.
Fake coupons are questionable at best, and I agree that they harm people, but the decision to allow or disallow them is not mine to make. That is up to DPR who himself has said that counterfeit money will never be permitted here. If you would like to argue with him on this, be my guest - it is his rule and one that I personally agree with.
Yes, even if there had only been one seller of firearms, that would have been shut down. Your argument about "there is only one seller so it wouldn't harm many people" doesn't play.
Who's to say someone isn't buying counterfeit money in order to scam another individual, or company? You can't police how your counterfeit bills are used, and they are prohibited here for a reason - because there is no legitimate use for them and they are only for the purpose of harming and defrauding others.
Like I said, if you want to know more, you are free to send a message to Dread Pirate Roberts.
-
There will not be a "legitimate vendor for this" on SR because it is prohibited. It's prohibited because it's primary intention is to do harm to others.
So why are there so many other listings that do nothing but harm individuals? With counterfeit currency most of it will be written off at a big store, harmless. It's no different then shoplifting in that aspect. There are graded coins on SR worth $15,000. You can't sell those to a professional because they would be identified as fake, their literal only purpose is to defraud an individual. The plated silver has the same function.
You allow the fake coupons, but you don't allow fake money? The entire forgery section is devoted towards identity fraud which hurts REAL people on a daily basis.
My argument is this -
1) You already allow items that have the same but MUCH MUCH more extreme function as fake money
2) I am the only seller of this so the impact it will have is little. You would not of taken guns away if there was only one seller of it
3) Fake bills are used primarily at thriving businesses, and the potential loss is only $100
I think you should at least give me a chance, and when I say "me" I mean legitimate sellers.
The forgery section does NOT harm people, because no one is selling stolen identities or stolen credit cards. No one is harmed by a fake ID. Can it be used for harmful purposes? Probably. Does it inherently cause harm to others? Absolutely not.
Fake coupons are questionable at best, and I agree that they harm people, but the decision to allow or disallow them is not mine to make. That is up to DPR who himself has said that counterfeit money will never be permitted here. If you would like to argue with him on this, be my guest - it is his rule and one that I personally agree with.
Yes, even if there had only been one seller of firearms, that would have been shut down. Your argument about "there is only one seller so it wouldn't harm many people" doesn't play.
Who's to say someone isn't buying counterfeit money in order to scam another individual, or company? You can't police how your counterfeit bills are used, and they are prohibited here for a reason - because there is no legitimate use for them and they are only for the purpose of harming and defrauding others.
Like I said, if you want to know more, you are free to send a message to Dread Pirate Roberts.
This is silk road and not zoklet/totse where fake IDs are used to buy alcohol. They do not have an immediate affect on people but neither does counterfeit currency. The end result of what these products are used for is what determines their harmfulness. I understand fake IDs are a fundamental part of the market but you get the analysis I am attempting to make.
If you do not allow fake money, then you should not allow these listings and probably 50 more -
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/4a594de2d0
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/a629f27eb6
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/8fc0dd92c6
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/8fc0dd92c6
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/338cb0789b
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/e71e353728
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/b0fe8964a8
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/9a3be2a6c8
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/7a0430b9c7
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/4406125c28
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/37cf6c4b2a
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/b0e46fcbd7
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/2c7c4de84e
There are guides on how to commit cc etc fraud which are in the same gray area.
I very much appreciate your posts and I will message roberts with a link to this thread.
-
in all honesty, we just haven't been policing it. its a tiny corner of the market that hasn't really caught my attention, but if what you are saying is true, then yea those fake silver listings and such should be taken down.
-
in all honesty, we just haven't been policing it. its a tiny corner of the market that hasn't really caught my attention, but if what you are saying is true, then yea those fake silver listings and such should be taken down.
well, I'm not going to make a listing without it being permitted. I would appreciate a line being drawn, and if that means my bills can't be sold, then so be it. however judging by the list of items that are currently on SR, it would be pure discrimination to not allow c-notes.
-
in all honesty, we just haven't been policing it. its a tiny corner of the market that hasn't really caught my attention, but if what you are saying is true, then yea those fake silver listings and such should be taken down.
well, I'm not going to make a listing without it being permitted. I would appreciate a line being drawn, and if that means my bills can't be sold, then so be it. however judging by the list of items that are currently on SR, it would be pure discrimination to not allow c-notes.
If/when I see counterfeit currency of any kind, I report it immediately. I will try to go through and re-report them, and appreciate that you pointed some of the listings out.
-
in all honesty, we just haven't been policing it. its a tiny corner of the market that hasn't really caught my attention, but if what you are saying is true, then yea those fake silver listings and such should be taken down.
well, I'm not going to make a listing without it being permitted. I would appreciate a line being drawn, and if that means my bills can't be sold, then so be it. however judging by the list of items that are currently on SR, it would be pure discrimination to not allow c-notes.
If/when I see counterfeit currency of any kind, I report it immediately. I will try to go through and re-report them, and appreciate that you pointed some of the listings out.
I don't so much mind that the listings are there, it's just I do need a line to be drawn here. I'm not going to demand you remove all these listings but by them being listed I am left to assume they are allowed to be sold. So if you can tell me that none of these items are allowed, and clarify on where the line is then I would be satisfied with that.
I've reported a ton of items before and none were removed, and I don't care I just want to know where the line is for forgeries. I'd appreciate if it was logical, but I know that isn't always possible with policies.
-
Fake silver, fake gold, well, they can be partially ornamental, might just be used for harmless purposes other than trading, so why take 'em down? I think the poison and dangerous weapons listings were taken down as they could create misuse and harm more than the reason of 'self protection'. You can see why SR allow pepper spray but not pistol. I think counterfeit currency might somehow cause social disorder. Furthermore, kids nowadays are tech-savvy and a handful of them are using SR as well.
It's true fake money cannot be compared to guns, etc. But why make people and company poorer? Selling coupons is different because people are taking surplus goods willingly given away by big companies.
Having freedom doesn't mean freedom to use poison or such which causes disorder or harm to others. Don't do unto others what you don't want to be done unto you.
If there is a real need to vend fake currency, there should be a limit of sale and the intention should be conscientious, and do not do any lost of money to innocent people.
There's freedom and rights beyond the law. Like smoking weed is against the law, but can be used responsibly to cure ailments (so do opiates).
-
Fake silver, fake gold, well, they can be partially ornamental, might just be used for harmless purposes other than trading, so why take 'em down? I think the poison and dangerous weapons listings were taken down as they could create misuse and harm more than the reason of 'self protection'. You can see why SR allow pepper spray but not pistol. I think counterfeit currency might somehow cause social disorder. Furthermore, kids nowadays are tech-savvy and a handful of them are using SR as well.
It's true fake money cannot be compared to guns, etc. But why make people and company poorer? Selling coupons is different because people are taking surplus goods willingly given away by big companies.
Having freedom doesn't mean freedom to use poison or such which causes disorder or harm to others. Don't do unto others what you don't want to be done unto you.
If there is a real need to vend fake currency, there should be a limit of sale and the intention should be conscientious, and do not do any lost of money to innocent people.
There's freedom and rights beyond the law. Like smoking weed is against the law, but can be used responsibly to cure ailments (so do opiates).
On SR you basically have two categories
1. Drugs
2. Financial Gain
You have a couple miscellaneous categories such as art and writing, however most things can be linked back to financial fraud.
Under Financial Gain, you have < stealing, and < creating legitimate wealth (nearly nonexistent).
In Financial Gain we have fake coins with fake authentication worth up to fifteen thousand dollars to a victim on craigslist. We have metals plated in silver and marked as silver (to an extent this is the very definition of fake fiat). These items are worthless until they are presented as genuine to an individual on craigslist.
Fake dollars is mostly spent at retail locations, which I think we all can agree is relatively fair natured. Yes they can be used to scam individuals, however not only can that individual avoid a loss by passing the bill themselves (and will in most instances on accident), but a fake ID has the same multipurpose.
In the wholesale industry, "surplus goods" are the same as money lost. Rather you purchase it with fake money, or with a fake coupon, or shoplift it, it's all the same to a big store. Analyzing that anymore is just redundant.
The end result of 70% of the products sold on Silk Road that are not drugs, is to steal from someone else. This is the very nature of the darknet, and why SR wants to exclude counterfeit currency from that is something I do not understand.
It could be that nobody has ever cared to debate it, since only a vendor of it would do so seriously (and there are none!).
-
I think it's a matter of perspective moral stance. There will also be debates about child pornography, weaponry, forgeries, hacking, etc. And both sides will always have their reasons and logic to back up where they stand. Who is right and who is wrong?
My stand would be 'don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you'. For example if I have the knowledge to steal a lot of money without being caught, I still won't do it. Why? Because of the moral stance.
To add, it is very foolish to think that gold or silver (or Rolex watches) sold on SR as genuine, they would be traded off in the first place if it's real. People who buy them are 1. for ornamental purpose 2. kids who are ignorant 3. for ulterior scam motives.
However, it's possible there are rare ornaments of real silver here too, which might be proven only under testing.
I think fake IDs amount to anonymous identity (or identity freedom). If it's stolen ID then it shouldn't appear here.
-
a respectable stance, but this is the darknet man. There is a difference between the casual drug users of SR who run normal lives and have family vs the people like me who have never touched a drop of alcohol or drugs and here for the money. I respect the morality stance but silk road sells a lot more than just drugs, and most of it goes towards stealing.
I don't want to get into that debate, I don't think that gets us anywhere and you are right none of us are right/wrong.
-
...
To add, it is very foolish to think that gold or silver (or Rolex watches) sold on SR as genuine, they would be traded off in the first place if it's real. People who buy them are 1. for ornamental purpose 2. kids who are ignorant 3. for ulterior scam motives.
However, it's possible there are rare ornaments of real silver here too, which might be proven only under testing.
I think fake IDs amount to anonymous identity (or identity freedom). If it's stolen ID then it shouldn't appear here.
Also one thing is that I respect SR mission as a revolutionary team. SR is not kingpin or cartel dealing the combination of drugs, assassination, theft and crime, or earning millions of dollars. Rather it opens a door for people to get some decent, hard to find stuff.
I'm curious have you not got biz in hackbb or black market already?
-
I think it's a matter of perspective moral stance. There will also be debates about child pornography, weaponry, forgeries, hacking, etc. And both sides will always have their reasons and logic to back up where they stand. Who is right and who is wrong?
My stand would be 'don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you'. For example if I have the knowledge to steal a lot of money without being caught, I still won't do it. Why? Because of the moral stance.
To add, it is very foolish to think that gold or silver (or Rolex watches) sold on SR as genuine, they would be traded off in the first place if it's real. People who buy them are 1. for ornamental purpose 2. kids who are ignorant 3. for ulterior scam motives.
However, it's possible there are rare ornaments of real silver here too, which might be proven only under testing.
I think fake IDs amount to anonymous identity (or identity freedom). If it's stolen ID then it shouldn't appear here.
The watches and silver are not sold as genuine on SR, they are sold as forgeries. The fake silver is relatively easy to move. I don't think you are looking at fake items in the right sense. I sold over $30,000 worth of fake magic the gathering cards on hackbb for several months and those are a lot harder to move than fake silver is.
You cannot in most instances obtain things like housing, jobs, or insurance using a fake ID. Their sole purpose is for identity fraud or to cover their tracks when committing fraud.
I have good business on Hackbb and BMR but with silk road it can expand even more. I've gotten like 5 messages after posting this thread from people curious about the bills and this just shows the client base here that isn't on hackbb and bmr.
-
Forged money represents a far greater risk than drugs.
Drugs create wealth, Miami was a backwater city until the coke trade saw money basically coming in at a rate that everyone knew was down to cocaine.
But sell forged money, I bet SR would be shut down fast. Its going to make the site owners a real target. I guess they know that and lets face it, every shop has detection scanners for forged note, plus CCTV and time stamped reciepts. Passing forged notes is too difficult IMO. I know it happens but I'd feel I was taking a big risk and you would be captured by CCTV easily.
And passing forged notes to certain people would be more than a risk!
I'd avoid that, but if I was lucky to get the first wave of the latest forgeries before they are detectable, I guess I'd go shopping!
Still at least nobody is selling dyed money with some 'magic cleaner' to clean the notes. ;)
-
I disagree with defrauding people.
You make it sound so pretty "making $5k" etc.. -- you should say stealing $5k from people, because that's what it is. You're a thief. Fuck you.
The fake silver stuff should be taken down too.
-
Forged money represents a far greater risk than drugs.
Drugs create wealth, Miami was a backwater city until the coke trade saw money basically coming in at a rate that everyone knew was down to cocaine.
But sell forged money, I bet SR would be shut down fast. Its going to make the site owners a real target. I guess they know that and lets face it, every shop has detection scanners for forged note, plus CCTV and time stamped reciepts. Passing forged notes is too difficult IMO. I know it happens but I'd feel I was taking a big risk and you would be captured by CCTV easily.
And passing forged notes to certain people would be more than a risk!
I'd avoid that, but if I was lucky to get the first wave of the latest forgeries before they are detectable, I guess I'd go shopping!
Still at least nobody is selling dyed money with some 'magic cleaner' to clean the notes. ;)
I'm not trying to offend you but I do not think you are a very good criminal, or at least have not dived into the idea of fake money much. Fake money is extremely easy to move, and the logistics behind getting caught for it are a lot more complicated than you think. However, none of this should matter in the debate if I am allowed to sell it or not.
Yes bluedev1 I am a thief, and I live off it and so do a lot of people here....
-
Fake money, and other high-value counterfeit items should not be sold here.
Fact is, we have our own little micro-economy going here. While I don't condone buying/selling items with cash, it happens when people are trying to buy/sell bitcoins.
To allow fraudulent payouts, we would undermine the trust our clients have in this site, which would hurt sales and the reputation of Silk Road as a whole. People are already justifiably wary of scammers, no need to throw away more of their hard-earned trust.
See the guns thing wasn't about avoiding heat, and the same can be said of funny money. The heat cannot get any hotter, the only thing that can get worse is financial regulations surrounding bitcoins. Roaders just want to have faith that this ship is being run by an honest drug maven, and want to see that the management will do their best to protect the weak from scammers and con artists.
Thieves are in NO WAY equivalent to drug dealers. Call it a moral high-horse, you can black and white it all you want, but drug laws are unjust, thievery is still thievery.
-
none of the items in question have been removed, and I haven't been told anything. the impression I get is that I am allowed to sell it.
-
I guess they should take off all the fake watches, jewelry, apparel, purses, etc. Their sole purpose is to hurt the original artist, company that created them, or the people they are sold to as real.
-
happy to see DPR make it official this fake silver plague has to go. Just reported the asshole, Mastermind Designs, who is the only one with it.
You fail as a human being, Cooked.
-
I guess they should take off all the fake watches, jewelry, apparel, purses, etc. Their sole purpose is to hurt the original artist, company that created them, or the people they are sold to as real.
didn't know these were on sr, but yes it's the exact same thing.
you should catch up with the rest of the darknet boba, it's all about thievery and nothing else :)
-
You make legit fake money? But you want to trade it for our REAL money? Contradicting isn't it?
Ryno
-
How much does fake money cost?
-
at this point in time I have no need to sell fake cash on SR, as I had to pause my listings on bmr because I am too swamped. however, in a month or so I would like to begin selling fake magic cards if allowed. I don't even care about fake money, just a yes/no on fake magic cards would be appreciated. They aren't even fake cards, just a genuine one with the front erased and reprinted on.
-
I guess they should take off all the fake watches, jewelry, apparel, purses, etc. Their sole purpose is to hurt the original artist, company that created them, or the people they are sold to as real.
didn't know these were on sr, but yes it's the exact same thing.
you should catch up with the rest of the darknet boba, it's all about thievery and nothing else :)
Whoa whoa... counterfeit clothing and accessories for personal use and wear are vastly and patently different then counterfeit money who's only intent is to defraud...
-
Still harms others. And the sole reason for no counterfeit money is 'it causes harm to others'
-
I guess they should take off all the fake watches, jewelry, apparel, purses, etc. Their sole purpose is to hurt the original artist, company that created them, or the people they are sold to as real.
didn't know these were on sr, but yes it's the exact same thing.
you should catch up with the rest of the darknet boba, it's all about thievery and nothing else :)
Whoa whoa... counterfeit clothing and accessories for personal use and wear are vastly and patently different then counterfeit money who's only intent is to defraud...
lol none of these are being used to wear.
-
where are you selling usd ?
-
Whoa whoa... counterfeit clothing and accessories for personal use and wear are vastly and patently different then counterfeit money who's only intent is to defraud...
lol none of these are being used to wear.
Lol... yes, yes they are? I know several people that have bought sunglasses, accessories, etc, only for their personal use.
Heck, even I have a pair of fake RayBan's from here.
-
Funny how we have all these fucking "Johnny do gooders" all of the sudden. Everyone bitching about the silver and other shit on here. Esp venders. I wonder how many drug users are selling this silver to buy your drugs? I wonder how many meth heads and other junkies are stealing from people to buy your drugs? But lets not think about that. Cause drug users only do their drugs and never "do harm" to other people for their habit. This is a fucking black market and dudes are bitching about fake silver and fake purses? You've gotta be shitting me. Cooked says he has plenty of business elsewhere but wants to come put a bunch of vendors out of business here? Well fuck you guy, take your ass back to bmr. And the rule is no counterfeit currency right? Silver bars arent legal tender, not currency. Go try to pay for your gas with an ounce of silver and watch the clerk look at you like your retarded. So why fuck with the guy trying to make a living. 95% of the vendors on here sell illegal shit. Some is just worse than others? Gimme a break, fn hypocrites.
-
Im interested in fake usd, i will use them to bribe the police and customs in my country. So yea, fuck them.
Its all about HOW you use it, the thing itself is not good or bad.
EDIT: Cooked ive sent you a PM on bmr.