Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Van Gogh on August 19, 2011, 03:51 pm
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I've been trying to research this topic and haven't found much. Seems to be a code on the card which one can send to another through paypal(hopefully more) that cannot be reversed. Purportedly prone to scams this way. Ensures anonymity since the money trail is nonexistent from the beginning. Anyone effectively use this method?
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I use it all the time. Buy a refill card (not the debit card) for the amount u need + $5. Then just give the number to the person you are paying. Perfect anonymous transaction. Make sure you trust the receiver however. I use it to buy bitcoins all the time. I have seen mention of scammers using moneypak but I'm not sure how that would work. It has never failed me this far.
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Yeah, but I haven't came across anyone on SR that accepts moneypak as payment. It's a very fast way to transfer, and you don't provide any personal information. The thing is you have to be real careful with it, once you lost/give those numbers away, it's gone.
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yeah that is my biggest concern. Out in the ecurrency world it's an unenforceable jungle. On silk road it would be easier to trust another person because of their rating. Any takers want to trade 2btc for $24 GDMoneypak? PM
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Ensures anonymity since the money trail is nonexistent from the beginning. Anyone effectively use this method?
Most sellers of contraband wont accept greendot cards directly , I guess because LE can trace the transaction. But Ive used them to buy bitcoins . Its allot easier than setting up a Mtgox or Pecunix account if you are only doing occasional small transactions.
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But Ive used them to buy bitcoins . Its allot easier than setting up a Mtgox or Pecunix account if you are only doing occasional small transactions.
That's my MO but i cannot find anyone willing to exchange btc for moneypak. i'd surely pass that amount through some wallets before ending up in my sl account.
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I tried going this route and ended up getting burned by Kezenaren
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Don't give moneypack number to a person. Have to do it through bitcoinexchange.cc or bitcoinbux.com. And yes Kezenaren is shady. Stay away from that guy.
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Whoa, moneypak's are way "not-anonymous" esp. for LE.
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone in this thread promoting their use was an LEO.
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Whoa, moneypak's are way "not-anonymous" esp. for LE.
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone in this thread promoting their use was an LEO.
This. MP isn't very anonymous for the receiver, only for the buyer. The only way to even make it half-anonymous is to get a prepaid card that you can refill with MP by stealing someone's identity (highly unethical imo) and then using that to withdraw cash from ATMs which almost always have cameras on them.
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i used one with SR Discount Pharmacy and it worked like a charm. I wish more would use it since it costs less than Bitcoin and is faster... for me anyway.
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I just want everyone to remember something about Green Dots and other prepaid card types. Whoever buys the Moneypak, even though it has to be paid for in cash, is recorded and photographed at least once if not several times. The card has to be activated at the register and there starts the paper trail. Exact time, date, cash register, and cashier on duty are all recorded by the store and GreenDot knows exactly when and where it was activated. LEO goes to Green Dot, gets purchase info. Goes to the place of purchase and squeezes them for info. Usually not going to get your name but probably going to get a nice surveillance shot of you and who knows, with all the cameras everywhere these days even a nice clear shot of your face. Then also there will be video of you walking out the door and leaving however you came, which if it was in your car, now they probably also have your license plate #.
Any pig worth his salt could track you down fairly quickly with this info. Unless you can find a place with the shittiest video security ever and a clerk who would never ever even talk to a cop even casually about a stranger that made a purchase and walk there from out of range of camera I would not purchase and use these cards for illicit transactions (and that might not even work because they might be able to get other security footage from nearby and "follow" you somewhat to see where you went after you bought it. Did you park somewhere down the street?)
Just something to think about, and I have to credit Th3creeper for bringing this issue about prepaid cards to my attention. Thanks creeper!
TUS
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I just want everyone to remember something about Green Dots and other prepaid card types. Whoever buys the Moneypak, even though it has to be paid for in cash, is recorded and photographed at least once if not several times. The card has to be activated at the register and there starts the paper trail. Exact time, date, cash register, and cashier on duty are all recorded by the store and GreenDot knows exactly when and where it was activated. LEO goes to Green Dot, gets purchase info. Goes to the place of purchase and squeezes them for info. Usually not going to get your name but probably going to get a nice surveillance shot of you and who knows, with all the cameras everywhere these days even a nice clear shot of your face. Then also there will be video of you walking out the door and leaving however you came, which if it was in your car, now they probably also have your license plate #.
Any pig worth his salt could track you down fairly quickly with this info. Unless you can find a place with the shittiest video security ever and a clerk who would never ever even talk to a cop even casually about a stranger that made a purchase and walk there from out of range of camera I would not purchase and use these cards for illicit transactions (and that might not even work because they might be able to get other security footage from nearby and "follow" you somewhat to see where you went after you bought it. Did you park somewhere down the street?)
Just something to think about, and I have to credit Th3creeper for bringing this issue about prepaid cards to my attention. Thanks creeper!
TUS
Great advice. Be careful with moneypacks.
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@TheUsualSuspect: I agree with much of what you said. I will add that if LEO is pressuring either GD or a retail store for camera footage matching the purchase time, this will usually take some time. Unless of course either the buyer or seller was being surveilled prior to purchase. At this point, all bets are off anyway.
Retention of footage is not archived forever either. If you stay to the smaller stores or bodegas, the retention life of the footage is almost certainly less than say if you used a CVS or Walmart.
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I am not familiar with Green Dot Moneypak or the fees involved. By fees involved I mean from start to finish with BTC in my account "ready to add to cart." AS a buyers prospective. Example $505 total spent on a $500 card. Exchanged out to after fees, costs of doing business, what ever YOU call it, ect. to $475 BTC equivalent to the buyer/consumer. So basically I am trying to imply/ask IS/Does $505 spent/=$475 after BTC conversion transactions? Is that accurate? What are the REAL numbers involved and at the end of the day what does that really mean dollar transaction loss? I will call it. AND what is the turn around time? My example shows a loss of $80 after everything is said and done. I am not sure how long it would take to convert to BTC. OUTLANDISH example I am sure. I hope I was clear. I really am interested. By contrast I've heard Liberty Reserve simply takes forever to do anything. I think they exchange BTC to currency. I am unfamiliar with them as well. ONLY heard they are slow at what they do. 2 week money tie ups?? Idk?
Would you all please be so kind as to break it down for me. Timelines involved and end result conversions. What would be an easier way? Any ideas?Thanks.
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"So basically I am trying to imply/ask IS/Does $505 spent/=$475 after BTC conversion transactions? Is that accurate? "
Yes. Your numbers are good. I just did this with Borneo for $305 so I could trade straight away. Here is how it broke down:
MP@ $305
Conversion fees@ $15 (Borneo only charges 5% over $300)
$ after conversion: $290
Total time: Approximately 2hrs. until I could trade. Very smooth.
How did you come up with a $80 loss unless I am missing something?
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You could use exchangebitcoins.com and just deposit cash in their bank account. Very fast and much cheaper than most other anonymous methods (.54%). I think the exchangers that operate on SR are hindered by the fee. They have to charge too much to make a profit. If you have LR you could buy a mtgox USD (1:1 ratio) code and do it that way also. All of these methods assume you have a exchangebitcoins or mtgox acct that is under an assumed name that will not link back to you. Also make sure you only access mtgox over a public wifi or vpn as you can't get on it from tor. Better to be safe. The moneypak does work in a pinch but it just seems to be a costly solution. I know I have recommended it before but that was before I found out about exchangebitcoins.
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I agree but on a Saturday night, and my first night here, it was all good.
My research into Exchangebitcoins also looks excellent. What is great about funding here is you can make (or have another make) a deposit directly into Exchangebitcoins bank account at either BOA or Well Fargo.
Establish an 'UNLINKED' identity at Exchangebitcoins. As vanilla stated, it is imperative that you do not link this account to either your real name, your SR name, NOTHING! Keep it clean. After the account is established you just progress to the funding screens and generate a deposit slip (the information you will need to fill the actual one out at least) and go to the bank.
The funds are supposed to be available within hours and I will report back as this is my next method of funding.
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I just want everyone to remember something about Green Dots and other prepaid card types. Whoever buys the Moneypak, even though it has to be paid for in cash, is recorded and photographed at least once if not several times. The card has to be activated at the register and there starts the paper trail. Exact time, date, cash register, and cashier on duty are all recorded by the store and GreenDot knows exactly when and where it was activated. LEO goes to Green Dot, gets purchase info. Goes to the place of purchase and squeezes them for info. Usually not going to get your name but probably going to get a nice surveillance shot of you and who knows, with all the cameras everywhere these days even a nice clear shot of your face. Then also there will be video of you walking out the door and leaving however you came, which if it was in your car, now they probably also have your license plate #.
Any pig worth his salt could track you down fairly quickly with this info. Unless you can find a place with the shittiest video security ever and a clerk who would never ever even talk to a cop even casually about a stranger that made a purchase and walk there from out of range of camera I would not purchase and use these cards for illicit transactions (and that might not even work because they might be able to get other security footage from nearby and "follow" you somewhat to see where you went after you bought it. Did you park somewhere down the street?)
Just something to think about, and I have to credit Th3creeper for bringing this issue about prepaid cards to my attention. Thanks creeper!
TUS
Well, I couldn't have put it any more eloquently than you did TUS so thanks for schooling the young uns and reminding us grown ups. Just keepin i real.
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OK, so the Moneypacks they can find out the purchase location, and get the CCTV footage. That I understand. Where is it though that friggin BANKS do not have CCTV? I mean really, wouldn't it be just as easy to track deposits through banks that way as it would Moneypack? What am I missing here?
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If you have a MP and you need coins SugarMama is a very trustworthy vendor
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I was going to use Moneypak to buy bitcoins from people on SR until I was warned of all the scammers.
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The reason people use moneypak is because it's easy to use, and they don't want to go thru the hassle of setting up outside accounts. I don't much worry about LE: bitcoins are legal, all kinds of people nowadays like speculating with bitcoins, so I don't sweat it...keep my attention on more serious areas...I doubt some super-cop is building a bitcoin case agasint some small time buyer to show...what? I suggest people sign up on bitcointalk.org, all kinds of fun stuff people use btc for...they usually get irritated at us when we start acting like we are the only ones who use bitcoins. When this site went down, the first time, it was kind of funny, because we were drifting around all these different sites--like bitcointalk--and signing up, just so we could ask if anybody knew what the fuck had happened to Silk Road, and they'd get all irritated at us :)
They've always got some vendor or another willing to sell bitcoins for moneypaks. Ripoffs can work both ways...I've been on here during one terrible ripoff, over a year ago now, where some btc vendor was all friendly and people liked him, and he not only ripped off a bunch of people, but came on afterwords and bragged about it on the forums. We have to go on trust, or get them outside SR...not that there's any guarantees there, either...I remember when TradeHill folded, and I thought I'd lost quit a bit...and it had disappeared, supposedly bitinstant had it...but they were kind of new too, and it took two weeks to get my money back, and even then I had to open a whole other account in another flyby night outfit....just part of the game here...
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Ok, call me crazy, but wouldn't it be riskier trying to deposit to a bank account? I mean at all times they have a pig usually on duty, along with cameras everywhere. Then I know that recently banks are tracing where cash deposits are going now more closely. A friend of mine works at a Bank of America and said that it is mandatory to report any cash deposit over $500 for Police Investigation, just FYI high rollers. So then they would easily find out you were buying bitcoins under a false identity. Uh oh, game over. Face it, cameras suck, they are the worst thing that has happened to the Black Market.
On the other hand, I was thinking about buying a $150 MoneyPak, is tax enforced on these purchases, or no? Also, are moneypaks over $100 often purchased at Wal-Mart's? That's where I was going to purchase mine. It just seems like the risk of buying bitcoins is high unless you bought using a private dealer. What happens if I buy a moneypak and let it remain inactive for a month, then trade, would that keep the pigs off my back?
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a $500 deposit now gets reported for "Police Investigation"? sorry, but i don't buy that. if they truly did that, do you realize how many people would be under "police investigation"?!
you then state that "then they would easily find out you were buying bitcoins under a false identity" --- how in the world would they figure this out?! making a cash deposit does not require ANY of YOUR personal information -- only the info of the account you're depositing into. so at what point are you using a false identity? and at what point, also, are you presenting any identifying information during this deposit?
as for your question about moneypaks -- yes, people at Walmart buy moneypaks over $100. moneypaks can be used to pay all kinds of bills. $100 is NOTHING to "the pigs" ... and i can guarantee you that with the small amounts of money you're talking about, you aren't going to have a problem with "pigs on your back". they wouldn't waste their time - ESPECIALLY SINCE BUYING BITCOINS IS LEGAL. as is buying a moneypak or depositing cash at a bank.
sorry, but it sure seems like you're fear-mongering or else you don't quite understand how the cash deposit at a bank works.
It's not a check deposit...it's the straight up cash deposit. So if someone was to hand the clerk 5 $100 bills it is reported to the officer for an investigation. Now that might not be the same in the Country/State you live in, but I assure you I am not lying. You're presenting a false identity on the bitcoin site usually, and if you could provide me a site where you don't have to provide some sort of fake information I would love that. Now you're right, most of the time once it is filed all they do is a simple bill authenticating test, and close the case. If you do live in a small town/town with a prick of a cop then you might have more to deal with. If they wanted to they could find that the information that you provided to the site was false, and then proceed to talk with the site about where the Bitcoins went. It is a possibility, no matter how slim it is, it is still a possibility.