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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: astor on August 01, 2013, 03:12 am
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If you think governments can't control Bitcoin, look what happened in Thailand. They can make it a lot harder to work with.
In a statement on its website, Bitcoin Company Limited said it had given a presentation to the Bank of Thailand about how the currency works in a bid to operate in the country.
However, at the end of the meeting, "senior members of the Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets... Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand".
The ruling means it is illegal to buy and sell bitcoins, buy or sell any goods or services in exchange for bitcoins, send any bitcoins to anyone outside of Thailand, or receive bitcoins from anyone outside the country.
Bitcoin said it "has no choice but to suspend operations until such as time that the laws in Thailand are updated to account for the existance [sic] of Bitcoin", adding that "the Bank of Thailand has said they will further consider the issue, but did not give any specific timeline".
Launched in 2009 in the wake of the global financial crisis, bitcoins are "mined" using complex computer source code. The virtual currency started as a relatively niche method of payment, devised by an anonymous programmer, but can now be used for anything from online gambling to pizza delivery.
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Earlier this month, the Winklevoss twins - who famously sued Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg for $140m, filed to float their stash of bitcoins on a conventional stock exchange.
However, in June it was reported that US authorities are examining the use of virtual currencies such as bitcoins amid fears that Americans are using them to evade taxes.
Currency
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10210022/Bitcoins-banned-in-Thailand.html
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Thailand.. an odd place.
Thanks for sharing this.
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so it begins! I knew we would come to this.
but hey.. prices will be going up!! its time to buy!
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Thailand ? .. I think they are just pissed with the ฿ sign which can be confused for their own currency Baht :D
(Seriously. If financial imperialists are planning to set up tighter rules, they would probably make test runs in less conspicious countries. Similar to trying to get rid of cash in Sweden first, instead of confronting the whole euro zone at once.)
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So... The Thai people can still use BTC, im guessing if
the laws in Thailand are updated to account for the existance [sic] of Bitcoin", adding that "the Bank of Thailand has said they will further consider the issue, but did not give any specific timeline".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10210022/Bitcoins-banned-in-Thailand.html
then it would be difficult to prosecute and punish those who violate non-existent laws.
Besides the beauty of crypto currency is that Thailand could always switch to LTC or other cryptos.
LEO can try all it wants but i dont see this being a big obstacle in the long run.
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For over 200 years ago gold was banned in the Netherlands. All the gold was confiscated. Possession was forbidden and heavily punished.
What do you think...would people accept paper(money) where every month a zero was added or forbidden gold.
It is easy to outlaw gold, but bitcoins are not to stop. Tails leaves no traces and a sd-card is small. You can make a law against the bitcoin, but you can not maintain that law.
98% of the bitcoins are used in legit ways. It's gold and diamonds that are a treat to society, often traded for drugs or weapons.
You can't encrypt gold, but can encrypt your bitcoins.
A encrypted usb-stick can have bitcoins, but the content could be family-pictures too.
If you don't tell the password nobody can know for sure what is on the stick.
Just a fool who doesn't know what others know for a long, long time.
Cannabis is forbidden too, but everywhere for sale...
They have tried to make alcohol illegal in the USA.
A ban on bitcoin is doomed to fail.
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???
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Thailands, use Litecoin ;) :D
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Hang on, if "bitcoin" said they cannot proceed with things in thailand why does every government not just say, Well bitcoin is illegal now and bitcoin will say "it has no choice but to suspend operations"
I thought bitcoin was not run by any companys ? The fact that it is significantly weakens the whole thing in my opinion. If it was completely free of any companies or countrys boundaries they would have had a much harder time making it illegal as there would be nobody held responsible for it.
bitcoin company ltd ehh, Jesus, I always thought btc was completely open source and not tied to anything like that, Shame.
Anyone from thailand, Use Litecoin. The thai people are fucked anyway, Death sentence for drugs remember over there, The government is nothing but an oppresive force.
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prostitution is also forbidden in Thailand
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prostitution is also forbidden in Thailand
Good one.
However, why would they ban bitcoin and not cryptocoins in general? Makes no sense to me, neither does the ban of any cryptocoin though.
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Thailand has very strict policies concerning drugs...to put it simply death penalty if you've been found with drugs....
I guess this decision made by the government of Thailand will protect people who are tempted to use SR within Thai territory not to get in trouble.
Maybe on day governments will be replaced with more understand leaders that will foresee that the problem is not the drugs but a simple education of people.
Boom
NaturalOils
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It's decentralised. Just like torrents, it has legal uses and can't be shutdown.
Also I can make my own token, coin, whatever, call it a BananaCoin and it's not illegal as long as I declare any income or capital gains to my home country in it's equivalent dollar value.
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>:(
Well fuck it, I am NOT going to Thailand if their child hookers won't take my crypto-currency!!!!
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>:(
Well fuck it, I am NOT going to Thailand if their child hookers won't take my crypto-currency!!!!
LOL'd. Thanks for making my day.
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For over 200 years ago gold was banned in the Netherlands. All the gold was confiscated. Possession was forbidden and heavily punished.
Wow, that is the first time I have heard about that. What is your source on this? Do you have a link?
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For over 200 years ago gold was banned in the Netherlands. All the gold was confiscated. Possession was forbidden and heavily punished.
Wow, that is the first time I have heard about that. What is your source on this? Do you have a link?
It happens all the time, even in the U.S. (1933)
In the Netherlands to pay for war logistics. The last time spoons, knives and forks were excluded from confiscation. So every single gram was melted down and changed into spoons, knifes and forks, this was legal, but you had to tell and count every single gram.
Now the government knew how much gold there still was. A few weeks later the law was changed and all the spoons knifes and forks were confiscated too.
The articles can't be copied because of copyright rules. But we learned from it at school that the government can not be trusted. It's normal for foreign powers to confiscate the gold of the occupied country citizens. Never heard of ""vea victi"". When in 389 vc Rome was concurred by ""Gallië"" modern France, the Roman people complained that that the weight on the scale was far from accurate,so the king/general of the french forces trowed his sword on the other end of the scale with the words ""Losers, beware!"" in latin something as "" vea victi ""
It is one thing if a foreighn power does somthing like that, but when your own government does it, that's an other story
For the confication of gold in the USA in 1933 look at google and I have here our law were it's written that the gold of the Dutch citzens can be confiscated.
Translate in google translator;
Noodwet, financieel verkeer:
Artikel 26
Onze Minister is bevoegd - zo nodig in afwijking van andere wettelijke regelingen - voorschriften te geven ten aanzien van de financiële betrekkingen met het buitenland, alsmede ten aanzien van het vorderen van gouden munten, fijn goud, alliages van goud (onbewerkt of halffabrikaat) en buitenlandse activa van ingezetenen. Tenzij bijzondere omstandigheden dit naar zijn oordeel onmogelijk maken, oefent hij deze bevoegdheden niet uit dan in overeenstemming met Onze Ministers van Buitenlandse Zaken, van Economische Zaken en van Landbouw en Visserij.
http://www.st-ab.nl/wetten/0211_Noodwet_financie
this means;
Emergency law, financial transactions:
Article 26
Our Minister is authorized - if necessary, notwithstanding other laws - to give respect to the financial relations with foreign countries, and with regard to the progress of gold coins, fine gold, alloys of gold (unworked or semi-finished) and foreign regulations assets of residents. Unless special circumstances make this impossible, in his opinion, he does not exercise these powers than in accordance with Our Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Economic Affairs and Agriculture and Fisheries.
http://www.st-ab.nl/wetten/0211_Noodwet_financie
I'll try to find a piece were I can use the copy paste, where is no protection for the copyrights.
Our government has begun in 2011 to change the law that confiscation of all the gold of our citizens should be possible too even if there is no turmoil or war insight. Just to pay the European Central Bank, as in Cyprus 40 or 60% above the €100.000 of every dollar or euro was confiscated just to pay for the bad business of the banks.
The CEO"s of those banks can keep their millions of course. Profit is for them, loses and lost money has to be payed back by the citizens.
As in Greece the rich are left alone and only ordinary people are cut of from electricity, if they can't pay their tax.
That it is well known that the rich of Greece ,a few thousand people, are known not to have paid any taxes.
They are not even questioned why they don't pay their taxes.
The newspapers are full with those story's.
And are certainly not cut of from electricity.
That happens only to the poor people.
In the USA, the rich do pay less taxes then the poor in percentages.
Over here in money!
Tax is only for the poor.
That has always been the case.
In England if you have the title ""lord"" you are free from taxes.
Like the rich in Germany were too
Like Von Bismarck, who took the Elzas Lotharingen back from the French never paid taxes.
Nor did any other rich family.
The war was legit by the way. All the places in the Elzas Lotharingen have German names. Strasbourg is German. Except if Germany loses a war. Then Elzas Lotharingen is confiscated again and again. After Napoleon and 1rst and 2nd world-war it is French, normally it is German property. Always has been.
Some new writings from okt 11 2011 I put in google translation for you
Monitoring gold ownership
The reasons for this change in attitude of the AFM are not hard to figure out. It's been a while under way that governments with more and more regulations to get. Control of precious metals To the emergence of the economic crisis, the government has no interest in the fortunes of the market for precious metals. Their nothing from the fiat money created were in charge and it was graciously looked down on precious metals like gold, silver and platinum. However, this indifference changed after the outbreak of the crisis when the U.S. and European central banks decided to express to tackle. Economic catastrophe trillions of dollars and euros Through this unprecedented expansion of fiat money hit the fear of inflation is accelerating, increasing the demand for gold increased tremendously. Because the massive expansion of the fiat money has not yielded the desired results and the financial crisis with the day takes dramatic form governments face forced to take in case a financial meltdown will occur. Measures One of those measures would be the confiscation of gold. History shows that this has happened before. In 1933 President Roosevelt took full private gold reserves of the U.S. population consuming. Gold Property was penalized and the penalties for the illegal possession of gold could reach up to 10 years in prison and $ 10,000 fine.
Preparatory measures
That the government is working to prepare for a possible confiscation already preparatory measures, the fact that trade in physical gold, which is stored within the Dutch borders is not subject to a licensing system while trading in physical gold which in abroad stored or the necessary permits (with additional restrictions) must have. Since the purchase of precious metals in the Netherlands may be recording the name and address of the buyer and weight of the precious metal, only it is for the government a cinch to figure out where it is, who owns and how much it is.
However, this precious metal is stored abroad than the government can not wrap her greedy claws.
I hope you have learned that the bitcoin is a gift from heaven.
No government can touch those. Peer to peer, encrypted.
Using tails and putt on a sd-card, no trails left on my pc.
Can be wired from Tokyo to New York, and kept hidden from the governments.
The bitcoin is autonomous , no one to be arrested or building to raid.
Unstoppable, it's the new gold for the internet.
No more dollar, yen, yuan, or euro, just bitcoins.
Easy to setup a account. It's like paypal, but free from a fee.
More and more I see bitcoin accepted or even ""sorry, bitcoins only""
The bitcoin ill be around a 1000 years from now.
Only the US dollar and Dutch Guilder, have never lost their value.
But all coins in 1875 were in gold 22 K
Then there came less gramms in the guilder, gold became silver and in 1967 the silver was changed for nikkel.
Our gold is in the US, South Africa and all around the world except in the Netherlands itself.
Gold is not free anymore in the Netherlands.
If you own gold you already have to tell right now.
Just in case the US says, sorry Dutch citizens , but you can not have your gold back.
As you have read right now, is our minister of finance resposible for the confiscation of all the gold, and if he refuses the minister of agraculture and fishing has to step forward and do the confiscation, or and the minister of foreign affairs.
This is all new.
Talking started in congress our parlement in okt 2011, to make confiscation possible too even when there is no turmoil or war insight.
No emergency situation needed. But the law is not in place yet. For now their has to be a need for it to do so.
Soon there is no emergency or need necessary.
Already is the AFM looking and counting who has how much gold (AFM= authority financial markets)
If you look at history, that is repeating itself over and over again, it is not hard to see where this is going to.
...In bitcoin we trust...
Safety first!
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It is easy to outlaw gold, but bitcoins are not to stop. Tails leaves no traces and a sd-card is small. You can make a law against the bitcoin, but you can not maintain that law.
They can't completely stop the use of bitcoin, just as a century of drug laws hasn't stopped the use of drugs, but they can make bitcoins difficult to obtain. You would have to buy them surreptitiously and risk going to jail, just like with drugs. That would put a lot of people off from using bitcoins.
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Who gives a flying fuck?
It's fucking THAILAND. Some shit-hole Turd World country.
No one gives a fuck what happens in Thailand.
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Its just Thailand...
Meanwhile in the USA
Clearnet-- http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/08/07/federal-judge-rules-bitcoin-is-real-money/
The link speaks for it self
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Thailands, use Litecoin ;) :D
This... ^-------- yes! ;D Kill 'em w/ all the crypto-currencies!
I think it's odd that a group would get together in order to create a company, for the purpose of bringing btc to a govt level where its traffic would be regulated, recorded and taxed. Why? To me that sounds like going against the spirit of btc.
Also, here are some clarifications about the "ban" in Thailand:
"The Bank of Thailand does not decide the legality of Bitcoin. Any regulations on crypto-currencies in Thailand will need to go through its formal process like Bitcoin does in other countries. None of the "Roles and Responsbilities" listed by the Bank of Thailand give it authority to determine the legal status of any currency."
https://btcglobal.net/blog/post/bitcoin-is-not-illegal-in-thailand
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prostitution is also forbidden in Thailand
You win the Darkweb.