Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: top44 on July 27, 2013, 09:35 am
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i have seen mentioned in some vendor profiles that low feedbacks "will be black listed"
due to my recent first FE purchase, i have a lot of paranoia, and i just want to know this, if someone can tell me.
If i will have to leave a 1/5 feedback for non-arrival... will the Vendor be able to blacklist my feedback and make it "invisible " to other customers?.
Thanks in advance for any answers, sorry for my bad english
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The vendor cant hide your feedback.
By saying that you will be blacklisted he is saying that he will keep your info, and never sell to you again!
But no matter what, it is always common courtesy to contact the vendor before giving a low feedback, and tell him why you think he does not deserve a higher feedback.
This way the vendor actually have a chance of making thing right, and you can come to some kind of agreement.
Also I do not think the vendor deserves a 1/5 for non-arrival, except if you have a pretty good idea that you have been scammed!
A non arrival is not necessarily the vendors fault, and therefore it is not fair to trash his feedback!
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thanks a lot for replying.
well, if everything else has arrived from other vendors, and there is one FE order that will not arrive... i will have no choice. But after all the information i asked is Just in case sth goes wrong.
Another thing i want to ask, is when seller gives refunds only with proof of "customs love letter" , fine i agree that is totally fair, but is there a way for the buyer to confirm that the seller has actually sent the item?
It seems so easy to scam from vendors side, but if feedback cannot be deleted, i think that is the most important, so when i see only good feedback from the seller, i know he would not like go for bad feedback anyway.
Needless to mention, i have 0% refunds, and plan to keep my stats perfect for ever. :) But you know, its just my first FE.
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Just don't FE.
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Why, oh why FE?
But anyway, couple of different things here. When vendor is talking about "blacklisting" you, that means he will keep your username (possibly posting it on his vendor page) in a list to never vend to again. If they have access to the vendor roundtable, he can add your name to a blacklist there as well. It is up to the other vendors whether to sell to you or not.
If the vendor pulls their listing, the feedback you give becomes invisible, I believe. If he puts it back up, it will be readable again. It will still count to the vendors rating overall, but if the listing is pulled the comments are pulled as well. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
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A couple of corrections.
1. Yes vendor CAN hide feedback. They simple stealth (then delete) the listing that the bad feedback was left on and start a new one. Most don't bother especially if there's lots of feedback on the listing. A single 1/5 will look like a scam attempt which is what it usually is. Or a newb not understanding how to use feedback properly.
2. Blacklisting referrers to a list or lists that vendors maintain in their private forum where buyers who leave 1/5 feedback get on a list. Not every buyer who leaves 1/5 feedback gets on the list. It depends on the circumstances surrounding it. If they left 3/5 or lower and didn't bother to contact the seller beforehand, yes, they get blacklisted. If they were unreasonable and belligerent, yes they get blacklisted.
What can happen when blacklisted? A number of things.
- Vendors can refuse to sell to you. Simply cancel your order without warning. And if they cancel within the first 4 days after you place an order, you can't leave feedback. Some will waste your time on purpose before cancelling so your coins are tied up a few days.
- Vendors can accept you order, but send you bottom of the vat stuff. You won't be getting top shelf.
- Vendors can keep your address or not send to any orders going to a specific town. Why would they do this? Because you can start a new buyer account but getting a new drop may not be as easy. Vendors may also share your address with their trusted vendor buddies so they too won't end up getting their stats ruined by a buyer who leaves low feedback without contacting the vendor first.
So don't think you're protecting other buyers by leaving low feedback score. Use the comment space to comment about the transaction. That's how you protect the discriminating buyer. Just don't give away details like packaging or info on vendor location. So don't say anything about stealth. Even if there's what you think is "no stealth." A lot of people don't understand the whole postal system process. And don't say things like "wow 2 days from west coast to east coast."
So when is it OK to leave a 1/5?
- You did all you could and were reasonable with a vendor but the vendor gave you the run around. This is a bad vendor and you probably weren't their first 1/5. Bad vendors blacklisting of buyers means nothing to other vendors.
- You got a box of rocks (I mean rocks made of silicon dioxide... real rocks).
- Domestic vendor marks order in transit but it doesn't show for 2 weeks. You'd be in resolution by this time. They will have tracking. It will show when they actually shipped it. If the vendor gives you a "too bad" attitude, your call about 1/5. If you have to get a refund given by SR resolutiions, that will affect your stats. So you might want to affect the vendor's stats in return. But you have to weigh the pros and cons at this point. If yours in an isolated incident, you might not want to leave low feedback (3/5 or lower).
- FE scams and vendor ignores you. But then again, there should be some shared responsibility. Why did you FE? You took a gamble.
- There's other wild and crazy situations where leaving low feedback will not result in any repercussions. But you also have the option of leaving no feedback at all. After you click finalize and the rating page comes up, close the tab or close the browser.
Just remember, these are drug dealers and you're buying illegal drugs. Think about all that goes into both sides of the equation and then think about if leaving a low feedback score is the smartest thing to do for you own personal safety and longevity on SR. All your PGP'ing won't be worth a damn since someone had to decrypt it in order to read it.
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thank you all for your useful answers.
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if you think they only deserve 1/5 then let them blacklist you, its not like your going to be ordering from them again.
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if you think they only deserve 1/5 then let them blacklist you, its not like your going to be ordering from them again.
That's not how blacklisting works. Read 3 posts up. Better explained than I could do it.
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It's an easy answer to a very complicated question.......but is it the right answer?.......IMO.....nope........not if your talking about weed that is.......almost every newby who messages me and wants a qp or larger has less than 5 SR buys or ZERO buys....and they expect me or any other vendor to sell and ship them a order like that on good faith?.......nope not happening.....those customers are FE or their order is canceled......now those same people want to order 7g .....no problem.....no finalize early...................trust has to be earned.
Now as far as reviews....anyone who leave's me less than a 5/5 and does not message me prior to doing that .....is reported to the vendor roundtable and put on the blacklist......period....end of story. Buyers have to be aware that the shipping of drugs is a shared responsibility.....we all know the risks involved in doing this......a few months ago....a buyer gave me a fake address for a $1100 order....I guess that address worked for him before....well I watched that DCN and the address was undeliverable.......a qp...now coming back to my return address.....it burned that address and that post office.....can't go back there...can't deposit mail there......just totally f-ed up all that area.....the guy had 30 SR buys.....he finalized his order and left a 5/5....and even said he did not get his package because it was his fault.
The reviews that just have me shaking my head are the 4/5 or 3/5.....it goes something like this
product 5/5
Stealth 5/5
communication 5/5
shipping...well I ordered on a Tuesday and it was shipped on Wednesday and I got on Saturday.....so for that delay 3/5
overall I giving this vendor a 4/5....great product!!!!!
If anyone leaves that type of feedback......you just do not understand SR....and should go on the vendor blacklist.
With all that being said.....do vendors sell to people on the black list?????......yep....had a guy want to purchase from me .....looked him up.....as I do with everyone who places as order....told him sorry.....canceled his order.
messaged the vendor got his side....the buyer told me his side......they worked out a solution.....and the guy seemed legit....had like 90 SR buys.....and I took a risk on him and he is a very good customer.
People have to realize.....customers try and scam us everyday.....1/8 messages is a scam......there are lots of "negative karma people trying to order" those type of people always have to find something wrong with their order....
I certainly do not want them as a customer......because there are too many people who are "happy positive karma people" who I love having as customers.
Hopefully this will help you in the order you are talking about or in future orders.......good luck
author=brusselsprout link=topic=191886.msg1383794#msg1383794 date=1374942594]
Just don't FE.
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The feedback score is really a qualitative categorization of: legit vs scammer.
That's how it's used by most people and how it is expected to be used. There is essentially no quantitative score of how good a vendor's product and service is.
If you get low quality product or crappy packaging, you are expected to message the vendor or mention it in your review, but still leave a 5.
You're supposed to leave a 1 only if the product never arrived and the vendor is acting shady, or you got an empty package or something that indicates you got scammed.
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Just say no to FE!
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The feedback score is really a qualitative categorization of: legit vs scammer.
That's how it's used by most people and how it is expected to be used. There is essentially no quantitative score of how good a vendor's product and service is.
If you get low quality product or crappy packaging, you are expected to message the vendor or mention it in your review, but still leave a 5.
You're supposed to leave a 1 only if the product never arrived and the vendor is acting shady, or you got an empty package or something that indicates you got scammed.
The current feedback system is effective but I feel like it needs an overhaul. Just my 2 BTC's.
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So really there should be a buyers roundtable also, and we can blacklist any vendors who don't answer are questions swiftly, or don't package the item with enough stealth factor. Or message us showing their displeasure at our feedback, is this fair, or because vendors have put down bonds, that entitles them membership to the secret club (roundtable) but excludes us pleb buyers.
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So really there should be a buyers roundtable also, and we can blacklist any vendors who don't answer are questions swiftly, or don't package the item with enough stealth factor. Or message us showing their displeasure at our feedback, is this fair, or because vendors have put down bonds, that entitles them membership to the secret club (roundtable) but excludes us pleb buyers.
The buyer's roundtable is called Silk Road forums. ::)
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So really there should be a buyers roundtable also, and we can blacklist any vendors who don't answer are questions swiftly, or don't package the item with enough stealth factor. Or message us showing their displeasure at our feedback, is this fair, or because vendors have put down bonds, that entitles them membership to the secret club (roundtable) but excludes us pleb buyers.
The buyer's roundtable is called Silk Road forums. ::)
^^ lol
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So really there should be a buyers roundtable also, and we can blacklist any vendors who don't answer are questions swiftly, or don't package the item with enough stealth factor. Or message us showing their displeasure at our feedback, is this fair, or because vendors have put down bonds, that entitles them membership to the secret club (roundtable) but excludes us pleb buyers.
The buyer's roundtable is called Silk Road forums. ::)
Its hardly private though is it, lol :D
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So really there should be a buyers roundtable also, and we can blacklist any vendors who don't answer are questions swiftly, or don't package the item with enough stealth factor. Or message us showing their displeasure at our feedback, is this fair, or because vendors have put down bonds, that entitles them membership to the secret club (roundtable) but excludes us pleb buyers.
The buyer's roundtable is called Silk Road forums. ::)
Its hardly private though is it, lol :D
There would be no possible way to keep vendors out of a private buyer's sub forum. :P
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I suppose so. :-[
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I find the practice of vendors threatening people if they leave less than 5/5 feedback disturbing. I also find the FE until you're proven disturbing. Granted I'm not a vendor and I totally get the damage poor feedback does to a vendor and I've seen tons of STUPID reasons for 4/5 or worse feedback complaining about things that are either unreasonable or beyond the vendors control (like slow mail). As a buyer I pay attention to a vendor's feedback obviously and frankly wish there was a way to quickly find the less than 5/5's (like Amazon lets you click and see the 3 star, 2 star etc reviews). When I see a vendor with dinged stats I want to know why they were dinged. If I see some idiot say "I gave him 3/5 because he charged me $10 for priority when it costs only $5" it doesn't hurt the vendor in my eyes at all. Not even a bit. Instead I see the reviewer as an idiot. Vendors should be able to leave buyers feedback similarly that rates us too - on did we finalize in a timely way, did we leave unfair feedback without trying to work it out, etc. and we should be able to see it and reply to it if need be. As it stands now the options seem to be for buyers to risk being blacklisted vs cave and give 5/5 even if there's a legit complaint. For vendors they seem to feel like they are being held hostage over their feedback by some losers who try to scam for a re-ship or are just dicks who are nit picking. A more specific feedback system (rating product quality, stealth, communication if applicable, etc) where it was easy to spot the complaints without having to click through pages of reviews would be so much better IMHO. I'd buy with no reservations from a vendor with a 94 if I could quickly see the complaints and they were bullshit. Now we just see an imperfect score and hope it's not for some serious issue or have to spend 20 minutes trying to figure out what the problem was. Id like to think vendors would feel less vulnerable to negative feedback if there was a way for prospective customers to see the negatives and the vendors response and make an informed decision vs just seeing a score and needing to invest a lot of time to see what the score really means.
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Not a bad solution.
The FE thing, yeah, it's a bother for some vendors too. But the vendors that do it, do it for a good reason or because of experience with a certain class of buyer, or simply because they can. (We have a policy for newbs and FE but haven't had to enforce it yet. It's just an order limit. Anything over it ($500) and a newb has to pay upfront. So new buyers just stay under the limit and enjoy escrow).
The biggest problem is the feedback weighting system. Anything less than a 5/5 tends to take off too much % depending on a number of factors. Factors that aren't easy to calculate. That's why a lot of vendors obsess over getting a 5/5 and will take various measures if it's not given. Measures range from contacting the buyer to explain how the feedback system works - newbs especially don't get it sometimes - to caving in to buyer feedback blackmail to personally blacklisting and/or blacklisting buyers on a site wide list. Some vendors might even blacklist surrounding ZIP codes of the offender (in case they think they are clever and use a different drop - so no one who lives in that ZIP code radius gets shipped anything) or even blacklisting an entire state (See? 1 Bad buyer can spoil the whole bunch).
What are the effects of being blacklisted? Varies. Could be as simple as having an order cancelled without explanation (having it cancelled just before day 4 so the buyer's time is wasted and the buyer can't leave feedback since it wasn't marked as shipped or late), to who knows what else. If you can think of something nefarious and vengeful that a vendor can get away with, odds are some vendor did too. It all depends on the reason why someone was blacklisted. Regardless of the reason, we vendors do take note of bad buyers and share anything pertinent to watch out for with one another (never seen any real names or addresses shared though, not even a hint of it). Sometimes there are scamming trends that develop. So by sharing reasons for blacklisting, we can sort of see how a buyer scam might start out.
But being blacklisted sucks. It's meant to suck. It's the only defense vendors have against buyers who leave low feedback or are just a PITA to deal with.
The good news is that some vendors don't really pay too much attention to the blacklists. And if a scamming vendor starts adding names to one of the blacklists, no vendor's going to pay attention to their entries. Vendors have been known to report other bad vendors since a bad vendor ruins it for the rest of us.
All in All, we all do the best with what we got. Just be careful out there. All this anonymity can bring out the worst in some.