Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: thyme on June 22, 2013, 01:53 am
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From Drug Interdiction: Partnership, Legal Principles, & Investigative Methodologies, 2e, G Steffan, 2012.
chapter 10 excerpt
available at local and college libraries, bookstore, and on google books (older edition very easily)
It's dense. It's worth a careful close read.
This is cited under fair use for purposes of discussion, as are any other excerpts.
Controlled Deliveries
Once the agency has taken custody of an incoming parcel from another jurisdiction, all documentation should be reviewed including the search warrant and other pertinent information. The parcel group should conduct an investigation including drive-bys of receiver locations to see if there is anyone at the location who can be identified. Information that can be verified from vehicle tag information, residence information, and any other source of information should be explored. Once all of the information has been developed, a controlled delivery is an investigative option.
A controlled delivery is delivery of a parcel, package, or envelope containing narcotics under controlled circumstances that has been sent either via a commercial private parcel company or the U.S. Postal Service. The actual physical delivery is typically made by a police officer in an undercover capacity or by the U.S. Postal Inspector if the parcel is U.S. mail. Under these controlled circumstances, the objective is to have a law enforcement officer make the delivery of the parcel to the suspect, who will either sign for or take custody of the parcel. The undercover agent will attempt to solicit any statements in which the suspect may admit knowledge of the parcel delivery. The key to any parcel investigation is for law enforcement to prove that the subject had knowledge of the parcel’s contents. This is critical to the prosecution of the suspect in a parcel investigation.. It is virtually impossible to litigate a criminal case without proving knowledge of contents.
The difficulty with controlled deliveries is timeliness. There is limited investigative time if the parcel is sent overnight or express mail. Many traffickers will instruct associates not to accept parcels if they are late. This is a difficult proposition for law enforcement. An officer may attempt to deliver a suspect package but the person will not accept it, because he knows that commercial parcel companies guarantee delivery by a certain time.
Once a decision has been made to conduct a controlled delivery of a parcel, most states allow an anticipatory search warrant to be drafted. An anticipatory search warrant is prepared in anticipation of a controlled delivery of a parcel to a premise. Probable cause, which led the law enforcement agency to the discovery of the parcel, should be included and articulated in the anticipatory search warrant. All fictitious information, type of drugs, examinations, and all other pertinent information should be included in the anticipatory search warrant.
In some jurisdictions, a judge or magistrate will sign the anticipatory search warrant before the controlled delivery of a parcel. In other jurisdictions, the parcel must be delivered and be in the premises before the anticipatory search warrant is signed. In that case, the investigator will be in the presence of a judge and as soon as he is advised that the parcel is in the location, the anticipatory search warrant is signed by the judge. In some jurisdictions, with an anticipatory search warrant, once the parcel that was delivered during the controlled delivery is located, the search must be terminated. In other jurisdictions, investigators may be allowed to include other items as part of the search warrant such as documents related to the parcel activity. This must be discussed with the U.S. Attorney’s office, or state or district attorney’s office in the particular jurisdiction.
In addition to preparing the anticipatory search warrant, investigators may consider placing an electronic alarm device within the suspect parcel. This court-ordered tracking device emits a tone once placed inside the parcel. When the recipient opens the parcel, the device emits a tone that alerts investigators that the parcel has been opened. The placement and monitoring of this type of electronic device requires issuance of a court order. Application for a court order–authorized mobile tracking device is a separate document from the anticipatory search warrant. The mobile tracking device order should indicate that law enforcement placed the device in a suspected package parcel to track the parcel to its ultimate destination and to alert that the parcel has been opened. No monitoring of conversation is permitted under these circumstances. Typically, the initial tone of the device is a slow beep tone, and once the alarm has been triggered it emits a fast, flowing tone. The criterion for use of an electronic device is the size of the parcel. It is very difficult to place, for example, a device in an overnight envelope. The box should be large enough to house this type of device. Law enforcement agencies can purchase these electronic alarm devices from a variety of vendors. The device is the size of a credit card or smaller and less than 1/8 in. thick.
In preparation for the controlled delivery, investigators should conduct presurveillance of the targeted location in an attempt to identify any individuals related to the case or any suspicious activity at the location. In a controlled delivery operation, law enforcement should take the same steps as for preparation of any search warrant execution. An operational briefing should be conducted; entry teams and search teams will be assigned with regard to execution of the search warrant.
When conducting a controlled delivery with a commercial private carrier, loss prevention personnel will assist in the delivery. The facility will provide the necessary equipment such as a delivery truck, delivery attire, and necessary documents to accomplish the delivery. In a controlled delivery using U.S. mail, the U.S. Postal Inspector’s office will conduct the controlled delivery with the local, state, or other federal agency. The delivery will be conducted by someone wearing U.S. Postal Service attire.
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The decision to stop or detain the suspects is different in every case. The circumstances will dictate the approach. One of the difficulties in conducting controlled deliveries is the wait—how long it will take the individual to open the parcel after he takes delivery. This goes toward proving knowledge in a parcel case. The electronic alarm device makes this easier. When an alarm device is not feasible due to the size of the parcel, investigators may find themselves playing a guessing game as to how long to give the individual before making entry to a location. If no alarm device is available, investigators must give ample time for the parcel to be opened. Again, circumstances will dictate what occurs. If the suspect departs a location and may have the parcel or the substance contained on his person, a decision may be made to detain the individual.
Experienced traffickers may wait long periods of time, even a number of days, before opening a parcel. The agency must make a decision with respect to how long it will monitor the situation, which will depend on resources and other factors. In many parcel cases, the use of a “drop house” or business is used. A drop house is typically a location designated by the sender and receiver for a parcel to be delivered to. Lower-level associates typically staff it. It may be a friend’s or relative’s home or business or an unknown residence where there is no relationship to the suspect, such as a vacant home that is for sale.
There are advantages to the use of a drop house by drug traffickers. Since it is not the suspect’s main residence, the receiver can claim that he had no knowledge of the parcel. The parcel is generally not opened at that location but is picked up by associates and taken to another location where it is opened. The difficulty in all of this is attempting to keep track of the parcel. The parcel may be delivered at the drop house, at which time the appropriate individuals are contacted, and they arrive and take custody of the parcel. If the package is large enough to be seen being removed from the location, investigators may attempt to conduct a surveillance and track the parcel with the tracking alarm device if one is placed. Once the suspected parcel is taken into another location, whether a business or residence, investigators may wait until the alarm is triggered and then make contact with individuals at the location, secure the residence, and obtain a search warrant. The law allows for law enforcement to be able to secure a residence and obtain a search warrant based on the circumstances described.
Once an anticipatory search warrant has been executed in a case where a parcel goes into an original location or premises, a number of investigative efforts take place. During the search of a residence, investigators should look for telephone billing information. Any phone records showing out-of-town phone numbers may be seized as part of the search warrant. Follow-up efforts can be made by possibly identifying the source sender. This may assist investigators in other jurisdictions with probable cause for warrants or other investigative options. Any documents that may incriminate other individuals in the investigation, such as airline tickets or bills, hotel receipts, credit card receipts, express mail shipping receipts, bank statements, and Western Union money transfers, may assist in the investigation. The suspect’s personal property should be examined, such as his wallet (for business cards), personal phone number books (which may be evidence linking the suspect to the sending source), photographs, and other documents identifying suspects with other associates. If the suspect has a cell phone the investigators should make contact with their district attorney to see if it is permissible to examine and identify the numbers and text messages displayed and saved in the cell phone. There may be telephone numbers linking the receiver to the source of the narcotics. The packaging should be preserved as much as possible for obtaining latent fingerprints. In many cases, fingerprints on the packaging material have been linked to the sender.
The interview of the receiver suspect should be conducted as soon as possible. The individual may cooperate with law enforcement and enable investigators to use some innovative options to make a case with the sender. In cooperation with law enforcement, the cooperative suspect may contact his source while law enforcement conducts a controlled, monitored, recorded telephone conversation between the cooperative individual and the source. There may be an opportunity for a delivery of monies that are owed for the narcotics to be made by another jurisdiction, if the suspect cooperates. Attempt to identify the source during the interview of the receiver suspect. Obtain information about where the individual resides, names, phone numbers, and other pertinent information.
Many agencies that have parcel task force groups have tried an investigative method known as a “reverse knock and talk.” This is used where timeliness is a factor and the parcel could not be delivered due to a variety of circumstances, such as resource issues. The “reverse knock and talk” is when investigators contact the individuals at the address on the label of the parcel containing the drugs. Generally, the name will be fictitious. The agents ask if they can speak with the party and ask if he has knowledge of a parcel being delivered at his location. Many will deny any knowledge of the parcel. Others will admit to having knowledge of the contents and will provide details about the package and its delivery. The individual may cooperate and assist in follow-up operations. Nothing ventured, nothing gained is the motto here. Why not take a shot at trying to further the investigation, unless other information is developed and a long-term operation is warranted?
Follow-up efforts may include trash or garbage pulls from the suspect residence to determine what activity may be occurring. Trash pulls are permissible from a residence or business if the trash is put out to the curb for collection. Investigators should not take trash from the residence if it is near the home such as by the garage; it must be clearly left on the curb for collection, where there is no expectation by the owner that it will not be taken.
Trash should be examined for remnants or trace amounts of drugs, evidence of parcel activity such as discarded packaging from parcels received, and other evidence of narcotic activity. Investigators have found trace amounts of drugs in discarded packages. All of this evidence can be used if there is a pattern to track parcels being delivered at the location, as well as build probable cause for a search warrant for the premises. These are all options that the investigator may take into consideration.
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And some odds and ends that didn't quite fit in. Same chapter.
Long-Term Conspiracy Cases
Over the years we have learned that drug trafficking organizations (DTOs) utilize parcel systems such as FedEx, UPS, and the USPS to facilitate their drug trafficking. There are times during the investigation of the DTOs’ transportation methods that parcels are intercepted by law enforcement. Unfortunately, delivery time frames are our worst enemy. The traffickers know the system and when a drug parcel is delayed they will probably not accept it. The DTOs use “runners” and lower level persons to take delivery of drug parcels. Due to the limited time available for a suspected parcel to be delivered and to prepare for a controlled delivery, the investigator may be better served conducting a long-term strategic or conspiracy case.
In order to identify all of the parties (whether peripheral or mid-level) involved in a DTO, an investigative option is to deliver the parcel with a “sham.” This is where the drugs are removed (with authority of a search warrant) from the suspected package and “other” material is inserted, such as newspaper. The parcel is delivered and through surveillance an attempt is made to identify the person(s) obtaining the package and where it is ultimately taken (residence/business). During a period of time, many of the DTO suspects can be identified and later criminally charged or indicted for conspiracy to traffic in narcotics or other related criminal charges.
Other Common Practices
Parcel delivery systems of all types attract other criminal activity as well as narcotics. These systems can be used in a variety of criminal activities, such as the dealing and transportation of stolen property. Investigators should be aware that they may receive information concerning other activities that are occurring.
Drug trafficking organizations sometimes use multiple services including the U.S. Postal Service, FedEx, DHL, and United Parcel Service in order to elude law enforcement so that their parcels may not be identified. In this fashion, they do what is known as “splitting loads.” Narcotics are sent in several packages instead of one large package. The theory is that several parcels may go through the system and others may be intercepted.
Drug traffickers also send “test parcels,” which they intentionally contaminate. Investigators may see a heavy parcel in which drug canine alerts to the odor of narcotics, and when it is opened it may contain other items, such as books, and no narcotics. This is done to see if the parcel is going to be intercepted, and the trafficker may then decide to use another method of transportation.
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Common among commercial and independent parcel facilities is the sale of new boxes for shipping. Investigators should make a practice of asking staff if they have any individuals buying new boxes on a regular basis. If there is a pattern of a person buying boxes, that individual may be buying them to send drugs. This is also common at storage unit facilities, where boxes are sold for moving purposes. A person may indicate he is moving or doing other things with the boxes. Most of us do not move but a few times in our lifetimes; these people claim they move frequently. If it appears suspicious, a closer examination may be warranted. Drug traffickers go to a variety of places to buy boxes. If interdiction programs exist in a jurisdiction, that information will be revealed.
Another indicator is parcels being sent from independent facilities in source cities or states, such as California, Florida, or Texas. A drug trafficker typically will walk into an independent store (pack-and-ship type) in a source area and mail a package to a receiver in another part of the country. The label will be the independent store’s label, using their address, and the sender will use a fictitious name. This way the sender cannot be tracked because he is not using his address. An indicator that investigators look for is a person sending a parcel through an independent company.
Another common practice is sending a package to oneself. Individuals will travel to a source state or city, procure the drugs, and then send them through a parcel service to a location that is either their business or home or to a drop location such as a relative or friend’s home. They can also use post office boxes, mailbox rentals at storage facilities, or independent facilities. In some cases, individuals travel to foreign countries and obtain narcotics and send the items back using a parcel service.
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This should be stickied/required reading.
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Thank You for the ifno.
Both of the posts are very information filled.
+1 for the OP.
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Nice work OP. You'll notice that it never mentions a signature is required from the receiver, although it puts a lot of emphasis on the receiver having to open the package. I'm not sure if that's the case in all jurisdictions though.
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great post 8)
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Common among commercial and independent parcel facilities is the sale of new boxes for shipping. Investigators should make a practice of asking staff if they have any individuals buying new boxes on a regular basis. If there is a pattern of a person buying boxes, that individual may be buying them to send drugs. This is also common at storage unit facilities, where boxes are sold for moving purposes. A person may indicate he is moving or doing other things with the boxes. Most of us do not move but a few times in our lifetimes; these people claim they move frequently. If it appears suspicious, a closer examination may be warranted. Drug traffickers go to a variety of places to buy boxes. If interdiction programs exist in a jurisdiction, that information will be revealed.
Very interesting, and not an angle I've seen discussed before. Thank you for this.
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Somebody should sticky this. As I read this I am about to construct an Electro-magnetic pulse generator. With this any such alarm devices in these packages can be disabled before the package is opened.
I wish there was more information on these types of alarm detectors, how they work, etc. My guess would be they are light sensitive? Who knows... a cheap EMP generator could disable them. long enough for the package to be opened and the device to be smashes/drowned in a lake.
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Very intersting read.
I wonder how much the quantity of drugs would have to be in order to constitute a controlled delivery..
Would one sheet (100 acid tabs) be enough for a CD in most jurisdictions?
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Very intersting read.
I wonder how much the quantity of drugs would have to be in order to constitute a controlled delivery..
Would one sheet (100 acid tabs) be enough for a CD in most jurisdictions?
Firstly Thanks to OP for this. this should be standard reading for all involved on this site.
Secondly sofish89, any amount of contraband is reason for a CD no matter the quantity. Any bust is good one to these oppressors. Also a sheet would more than likely come first class, not parcel. if you notice most of the language in the article focuses on the use of boxes and parcels. imagine getting a first class envelope with a 1/8" bulge the size of a creditcard. that would be a dead give away. if your order can be shipped 1st class always ask your vendor to do so . yeah it takes a little longer but safety is foremost right?
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Somebody should sticky this. As I read this I am about to construct an Electro-magnetic pulse generator. With this any such alarm devices in these packages can be disabled before the package is opened.
I wish there was more information on these types of alarm detectors, how they work, etc. My guess would be they are light sensitive? Who knows... a cheap EMP generator could disable them. long enough for the package to be opened and the device to be smashes/drowned in a lake.
An EMP could disable GPS tracking devices but photosensitive patches work without any kind of electronics and they're enough to prove that a package has been opened. A good way to retrieve packages that may be bugged is to put them in a Faraday cage such as a backpack whose insides are covered in aluminum foil. To test if it works, put a cell phone in it and try to call it. No need for an EMP.. Drive a mile, get the drugs and leave.
If you get a controlled delivery though, it's no use to get rid of the package because they know they've given it to you and if they can't find it when they search your house it'll be pretty suspicious.
You could also open them in a red light room.
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To me it sounds like the way the warrant's are written out, that if you suspect a bad package coming you can just not answer your door and not sign and write return to sender if they leave it there. They don't really talk about beating down doors. At that point they would just watch you and check your garbage and what not but not come in.
Well at least thats what I took from it.
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Astor brings up a good point being that,,, you may not be required to sign for the package
Understand upon that assumption one could think all is well....When LEO is closing in
What else stuck out was the abbreviated window of time they have to do this if it's an Express service
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+1 for this great post! Funny how a lot of the practices that are mentioned here have been discussed on these forums a lot. People here have always said to refuse signature or delivery and show plausible deniability and they'll have a hard time nabbing you. And based on this that appears to be true.
To the person that asked how much quantity would trigger a CD. I guess at this point nobody really knows for sure. It's my personal belief based on their limited resources (USPS postal inspectors, police) and the time and money it takes to conduct a CD that they would really only go after a large shipment. I don't know where the line is drawn, but I feel that if you're getting an eighth of weed or a dozen Xanax or something personal you probably don't have much to worry about.
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To the person that asked how much quantity would trigger a CD. I guess at this point nobody really knows for sure. It's my personal belief based on their limited resources (USPS postal inspectors, police) and the time and money it takes to conduct a CD that they would really only go after a large shipment. I don't know where the line is drawn, but I feel that if you're getting an eighth of weed or a dozen Xanax or something personal you probably don't have much to worry about.
For North Americans that is true.
We have recorded instances of small level EU buyers being ousted. You are not safe unless encrypted while on a big dose of instinct. Small monsters have to hurt smaller people to remind us that they're still monsters, and not just when in each others midst.
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Good read. Thanks for posting, thyme.
Interesting, no mentionof PO Boxes...?
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bookmarking for later, thanks!
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Good read. Thanks for posting, thyme.
Interesting, no mentionof PO Boxes...?
read it again homie.
I know you have been looking into this and I consider this to be very accurate.
Ah yes, all the way at the end there. Thanks man!
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Controlled Deliveries
In addition to preparing the anticipatory search warrant, investigators may consider placing an electronic alarm device within the suspect parcel. This court-ordered tracking device emits a tone once placed inside the parcel. When the recipient opens the parcel, the device emits a tone that alerts investigators that the parcel has been opened. The placement and monitoring of this type of electronic device requires issuance of a court order. Application for a court order–authorized mobile tracking device is a separate document from the anticipatory search warrant. The mobile tracking device order should indicate that law enforcement placed the device in a suspected package parcel to track the parcel to its ultimate destination and to alert that the parcel has been opened. No monitoring of conversation is permitted under these circumstances. Typically, the initial tone of the device is a slow beep tone, and once the alarm has been triggered it emits a fast, flowing tone. The criterion for use of an electronic device is the size of the parcel. It is very difficult to place, for example, a device in an overnight envelope. The box should be large enough to house this type of device. Law enforcement agencies can purchase these electronic alarm devices from a variety of vendors. The device is the size of a credit card or smaller and less than 1/8 in. thick.
It would may be easy to listen for this device and to forgo packages emitting an offending tone.
I don't see why we cannot employ similar devices... using a combination of sensors, signals, and encryption. The device could monitor the security of the parcel and relay an encrypted signal to describe the trip.
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Thank you so much for posting this! I am definitely saving it. Knowledge is powder. I mean power.
Ryno
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Nice info. Re: the tone, I'm going to assume that they mean the device transmits these tones (slow beep/fast flowing) to whatever is monitoring it (not that it emits this tone audibly inside the package).
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In addition to preparing the anticipatory search warrant, investigators may consider placing an electronic alarm device within the suspect parcel. This court-ordered tracking device emits a tone once placed inside the parcel. When the recipient opens the parcel, the device emits a tone that alerts investigators that the parcel has been opened. The placement and monitoring of this type of electronic device requires issuance of a court order. Application for a court order–authorized mobile tracking device is a separate document from the anticipatory search warrant. The mobile tracking device order should indicate that law enforcement placed the device in a suspected package parcel to track the parcel to its ultimate destination and to alert that the parcel has been opened. No monitoring of conversation is permitted under these circumstances. Typically, the initial tone of the device is a slow beep tone, and once the alarm has been triggered it emits a fast, flowing tone. The criterion for use of an electronic device is the size of the parcel. It is very difficult to place, for example, a device in an overnight envelope. The box should be large enough to house this type of device. Law enforcement agencies can purchase these electronic alarm devices from a variety of vendors. The device is the size of a credit card or smaller and less than 1/8 in. thick.
Can wrapping the package in foil paper before relocation render the tracking device useless??? I know the faraday cage effect works for most if not all electronics, I'm unsure what is meant by a device emitting a tone?
Clearnet Link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
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If somebody other than your usual USPS delivery person tries to make the delivery then don't answer the door or at least don't accept the package.
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Thanks for posting awesome read.
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Thank you for the helpful information!
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I also think this deserves a stciky! +1 for a great post!
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Hear, hear!
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Drug Interdiction: Partnerships, Legal Principles, and Investigative Methodologies for Law Enforcement, Second Edition
Published: April 5, 2010 by CRC Press
Content: 320 Pages | 48 Illustrations
Author(s): George S. Steffen; Samuel M. Candelaria
Author Bio(s)
George S. Steffen is Captain of the Deputy Sheriffs of the Pinellas County Sheriffs in Florida and is an adjunct instructor at the Southeastern Public Safety Institute at St. Petersburg College. Samuel M. Candelaria is owner of the Law Enforcement Training Techniques and Consulting Company operating out of New Mexico.
Summary
As drug trafficking and the abuse of illicit drugs continue to inflict untold harm upon our society, it is clear that a global initiative and an intense domestic strategy are vital to address the sophisticated drug trafficking organizations (DTOs) that are prevalent in many regions. Covering a wide array of domestic interdiction topics, Drug Interdiction: Partnerships, Legal Principles, and Investigative Methodologies for Law Enforcement, Second Edition is the most comprehensive drug interdiction book available, providing a "how-to" step-by-step guide for all law enforcement officers.
Explores the gamut of interdiction scenarios
Drawing on their multiple years of experience, the authors explore a range of issues that confront today’s drug interdiction officer. The book explains how to initiate specific domestic drug interdiction programs and discusses how to use business partnerships to assist law enforcement in identifying potential violators who use legitimate businesses to facilitate the drug trade. It examines consensual encounters, the use of drug canines, and interdictions involving trains, buses, airports, and rental vehicles. Wide-ranging in scope, the text also covers interdictions at hotels and those involving storage units and parcel systems. The book includes a chapter on currency seizures as well as chapters on report writing, courtroom testimony, and the role of the interdiction supervisor. Each chapter includes relevant case law that supports the protocol described.
Reliable techniques, tested in the field
The techniques presented in this volume are tried and true methods, utilized by the authors as part of many years of successful narcotics investigations. The unbeatable methods are deeply rooted in case law to ensure proper execution of the practices described, and admissibility in court of the evidence seized.
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Drug Interdiction: Partnerships, Legal Principles, and Investigative Methodologies for Law Enforcement, Second Edition
Published: April 5, 2010 by CRC Press
Content: 320 Pages | 48 Illustrations
Author(s): George S. Steffen; Samuel M. Candelaria
Author Bio(s)
George S. Steffen is Captain of the Deputy Sheriffs of the Pinellas County Sheriffs in Florida and is an adjunct instructor at the Southeastern Public Safety Institute at St. Petersburg College. Samuel M. Candelaria is owner of the Law Enforcement Training Techniques and Consulting Company operating out of New Mexico.
Summary
As drug trafficking and the abuse of illicit drugs continue to inflict untold harm upon our society, it is clear that a global initiative and an intense domestic strategy are vital to address the sophisticated drug trafficking organizations (DTOs) that are prevalent in many regions. Covering a wide array of domestic interdiction topics, Drug Interdiction: Partnerships, Legal Principles, and Investigative Methodologies for Law Enforcement, Second Edition is the most comprehensive drug interdiction book available, providing a "how-to" step-by-step guide for all law enforcement officers.
Explores the gamut of interdiction scenarios
Drawing on their multiple years of experience, the authors explore a range of issues that confront today’s drug interdiction officer. The book explains how to initiate specific domestic drug interdiction programs and discusses how to use business partnerships to assist law enforcement in identifying potential violators who use legitimate businesses to facilitate the drug trade. It examines consensual encounters, the use of drug canines, and interdictions involving trains, buses, airports, and rental vehicles. Wide-ranging in scope, the text also covers interdictions at hotels and those involving storage units and parcel systems. The book includes a chapter on currency seizures as well as chapters on report writing, courtroom testimony, and the role of the interdiction supervisor. Each chapter includes relevant case law that supports the protocol described.
Reliable techniques, tested in the field
The techniques presented in this volume are tried and true methods, utilized by the authors as part of many years of successful narcotics investigations. The unbeatable methods are deeply rooted in case law to ensure proper execution of the practices described, and admissibility in court of the evidence seized.
Sounds like a pleasant read.
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subbed. Very useful info here everyone. I agree this should be sticky'd.
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Should be stickyed.
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Excellent information! I was just thinking today I wanted to look in the forums to see exactly what a CD is and what to look for. Thanks so much!