Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: ruby123 on May 29, 2013, 03:08 pm
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FBI shared child porn to nab pedophiles; Washington home raided
http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/FBI-shared-child-porn-to-nab-pedophiles-4552044.php
The FBI seized and ran a child pornography service late last year as investigators worked to identify its customers, one Western Washington man allegedly among them.
Following a lengthy investigation, Nebraska-based agents raided the large child pornography service in November hoping to catch users who shared thousands of images showing children being raped, displayed and abused.
The Bureau ran the service for two weeks while attempting to identify more than 5,000 customers, according to a Seattle FBI agent's statements to the court. Court records indicate the site continued to distribute child pornography online while under FBI control; the Seattle-based special agent, a specialist in online crimes against children, detailed the investigation earlier this month in a statement to the court.
The investigation appears to mark a departure for the Bureau and other federal law enforcement agencies aiming to root out child porn purveyors.
Historically, child pornography investigations stem from tips made to law enforcement, interactions with undercover officers posing as customers or reviews of documentation seized during searches of child porn clearinghouses like the one recently raided in Nebraska. While investigators are known to have posed as child porn dealers – a 2011 effort involved targeted emails to suspected pedophiles – it is not apparent that the FBI previously dealt child porn as part of a sting.
The Nebraska investigation is still in its early stages, and, while charges appear to be forthcoming, no one being prosecuted has been publicly tied to the site thus far. Information obtained during the investigation resulted in a search of one Western Washington home, and investigators are presently reviewing computers seized during that April search.
The FBI declined requests to discuss the investigation or investigators’ motivations to continue operating the site. Court records indicate investigators hoped to trace customers and were unable to do so through traditional means.
“This remains an ongoing investigation, and local court rules and Department of Justice policy prohibit me from providing more information at this time,” said Sandy Breault, spokeswoman for the FBI Omaha Division. “As in any given matter, if charges are filed, they will eventually become a matter of public record.”
1,000s of images shared during investigation
Named only as “Website A” in an April 10 search warrant affidavit filed by the Seattle-based agent, the child pornography service was described as an online bulletin board with the primary business of advertising and sharing child pornography.
The affidavit was obtained by seattlepi.com earlier in May through a publicly accessible court records system. It has since been sealed.
Agents in the Omaha area seized “Website A” on Nov. 16 and continued to operate it until Dec. 2, monitoring messages from users of the website, the Seattle special agent told the court. The site was shut down Dec. 2.
At the time the service was shuttered it had more than 5,600 users and 24,000 posts, nearly all of which related to child pornography. At least 10,000 photos of children being posed nude, raped or otherwise abused were broadcast through the site.
Writing the court, the special agent recounted the site users’ discussions on how to avoid detection by police. One went so far as to publish a lengthy guide on encryption, and protections placed on the service impeded investigators’ work.
Most often, though, “Website A” users chatted about their shared interests – the rape and molestation of children. Message threads on the site included “How to lure a child in my car,” “Meeting other pedos in real life,” and “Do kids LIKE anal sex?”
On Nov. 9, a U.S. District Court judge in Nebraska approved a request by law enforcement agents to track down the website’s users.
According to the agent’s statement, investigators were unable to identify “Website A” users through the service’s records. Allowing the site to continue to operate – allowing pedophiles to continue swapping photos and accessing images stored on the site – was necessary to identify the customers.
Court records do not note how many images of raped and abused children were shared or accessed while the FBI was operating “Website A.” Investigators also do not indicate whether known victims of child pornography – abused children pictured in widely distributed pornographic series – have been notified photos of their abuse were again shared as part of the investigation.
Images endure despite prosecutions
In what has become a disturbing legal cliché, federal prosecutors often assert that each time an image of rape or molestation is shared, the child is abused again.
That was among the arguments offered by Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Marci Ellsworth last year when she sent a Seattle child molester to federal prison for child pornography crimes unrelated to the Nebraska investigation.
Ellsworth opined that Pinson’s crimes were not, as the child pornography consumers sometimes argue, “victimless.”
“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Efforts to interview a Seattle attorney representing her were unsuccessful prior to the holiday weekend. Staff at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children was also unavailable to discuss the issues surrounding the investigation.
Search on for ‘Website A’ users
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Seattlepi.com does not generally identify suspects prior to charges being filed. Charges have not yet been filed in the case.
According to the Seattle agent’s statement, the site's users expounded on their interest in watching children be sexually assaulted by several men at the same time, and bragged about a collection of photos on the topic.
“There have been over 7,850 views of this thread in less than a week, which is a great compliment to the girls!” one user said in a post, according to a search warrant affidavit. “However, I find it hard to believe than(sic) in the last century and a half since photography was invented, it hasn’t occurred to more people that to photograph a cute little girl being hard (expletive) by two men is a fine and arousing thing to do.”
Users went on to discuss in graphic detail the practicalities of a small girl being gang raped, according to the agent’s statement.
In a separate thread, users discussed their desire to rape children pictured in a series of pornographic photos. One man remarked that he would gag and chain one girl and leave another “swollen from all the abuse,” and then days later expressed similar sentiments toward yet another nude pre-teen girl.
“Jesus I would enjoy hurting that child,” a user said in the chat thread, according to the search warrant affidavit.
Agents began watching the Seattle-area home thought to be associated with one user in late-March and seized computers from it on April 10. Charges had not yet been filed in the case, and court records do not indicate whether child pornography was recovered in the search.
Check the Seattle 911 crime blog for more Seattle crime news. Visit seattlepi.com's home page for more Seattle news.
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Now to be clear, I have zero respect for depraved pedophiles; however, focus on the tactic that the FBI employed: hostile server take over of an existing service to create a honeypot...cough* Atlantis cough*
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death to the pedos, same for the feds
was this lolita city btw..
ik the article explicitly didnt say the name but maybe someone on here knows what site it was....
at least feds are going after the bad guys, stay away from SR!!
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
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Now to be clear, I have zero respect for depraved pedo's; however, focus on the tactic that the FBI employed: hostile server take over of an existing service to create a honeypot...cough* Atlantis cough*
LOL ;-)
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
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probably pedoforum.
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THe FBI says that looking at pictures of children being molested is just as bad as molesting children, but it is a common tactic for them to share child porn to get membership in CP distribution groups, so I wonder if they also rape children to gain membership in child molestation groups.
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
There are plenty of pedo hidden services. You can trade that shit and remain anonymous on them. If they found the server of a pedo hidden service, all of the users are still anonymous. You don't give your fucking name or address or anything like we have to do.
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
There are plenty of pedo hidden services. You can trade that shit and remain anonymous on them. If they found the server of a pedo hidden service, all of the users are still anonymous. You don't give your fucking name or address or anything like we have to do.
There are plenty of busted pedo hidden services too, the past two years have seen dozens of CP traders and hidden services on Tor being pwnt by feds.
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“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
Let's do a double blind experiment. We can hook up one of these abused children to all kinds of medical devices that measure pain, their brainwaves, heart rate, fucking everything. Then we have someone in a different city load their CP images 20 times with random time intervals between them. If the best medical experts in the world can detect changes in the child that correlate with the images being loaded, then we can accept the claim this dumbshit is making. Otherwise it is conclusively and empirically disproved. Anyone want to bet on the odds?
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Maybe she should opt out of the program she is in where she is notified every single time when someone is busted with one of her CP files, if it is really causing her so much damage. Of course then she wouldn't be able to demand restitution from all of the people caught with her images, which is currently making her a small fortune. I mean it sucks that she was molested, but maybe they should find somebody who isn't the poster child for making money off their past abuse to be their poster child for 'people downloading CP with me in it causes me horrible pain every single time'. Just a thought!
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Well that is a huge indication that it is a Tor hidden service. Clearnet jailbait = 14+ , Tor jailbait = 9+ .
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
There are plenty of pedo hidden services. You can trade that shit and remain anonymous on them. If they found the server of a pedo hidden service, all of the users are still anonymous. You don't give your fucking name or address or anything like we have to do.
There are plenty of busted pedo hidden services too, the past two years have seen dozens of CP traders and hidden services on Tor being pwnt by feds.
I don't do any research on the subject. How were they deanonymized? I feel pedos are dumber than us in general because of the stupid shit I have read about them doing. Surely these busts had to of been the pedos fault... I'm sure they did something wrong. Pedos were stupid enough to download a firefox plugin called "Honey Pawt" with pedobear as the logo and they got the link to the download from the CP page of the hidden wiki. Things like this make me feel like pedos are generally much dumber than us.
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
There are plenty of pedo hidden services. You can trade that shit and remain anonymous on them. If they found the server of a pedo hidden service, all of the users are still anonymous. You don't give your fucking name or address or anything like we have to do.
There are plenty of busted pedo hidden services too, the past two years have seen dozens of CP traders and hidden services on Tor being pwnt by feds.
I don't do any research on the subject. How were they deanonymized? I feel pedos are dumber than us in general because of the stupid shit I have read about them doing. Surely these busts had to of been the pedos fault... I'm sure they did something wrong. Pedos were stupid enough to download a firefox plugin called "Honey Pawt" with pedobear as the logo and they got the link to the download from the CP page of the hidden wiki. Things like this make me feel like pedos are generally much dumber than us.
Always server misconfigurations that leaked IP address or allowed feds to hack into it. Some users were busted too, it seems at least a lot of them were busted with photographic forensics but nobody really knows if any were traced with technical attacks.
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I am not a lawyer (or am I?), but I bet this rests on the technical details. LE can allow a drug ring to distribute drugs, they just can't distribute real drugs to people. If the buyers ODed and died, it would be a huge liability for LE. But if buyers OD and die on drugs that dealers supply -- that LE allowed those dealers to supply, but that they would have supplied anyway if LE hadn't infiltrated the group -- then they have no liability for it.
So did they take over a forum and allow other people to trade CP, or did they supply CP to the forum that didn't exist there before? It's not clear to me. But the latter would be on a par with providing people with drugs. If it's the former, then it's in line with the other types of investigations that they do.
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Peds are fucking stupid, just turn on that predator show, they probably signed onto the forum with thier real name.
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I am not a lawyer (or am I?), but I bet this rests on the technical details. LE can allow a drug ring to distribute drugs, they just can't distribute real drugs to people. If the buyers ODed and died, it would be a huge liability for LE. But if buyers OD and die on drugs that dealers supply -- that LE allowed those dealers to supply, but that they would have supplied anyway if LE hadn't infiltrated the group -- then they have no liability for it.
So did they take over a forum and allow other people to trade CP, or did they supply CP to the forum that didn't exist there before? It's not clear to me. But the latter would be on a par with providing people with drugs. If it's the former, then it's in line with the other types of investigations that they do.
But if every time a pedophile views CP “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage” , then the FBI must have just victimized thousands of children! If the forum had 5,600 members, let's say that only 600 of them viewed the forum over the two week period that the FBI was monitoring it for. If we assume each of them viewed about twenty images, that comes to a total of 12,000 times a child was viewed portrayed in CP ! The inaction on the part of the FBI therefor led to 12,000 instances of a child suffering real, permanent damage!
As a matter of fact, each and every single time one of those images was viewed, the child in the viewed image was raped all over again! Therefor we must conclude that the FBI directly caused 12,000 child rapes. They don't even dispute the facts! We must conclude that the FBI is a secret pedophile organization hell bent on raping children.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
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They only catch mentally challenged and stupid pedophiles like this. Pedos have it easier than us. If they are following the same security measures as us then they will never be caught. Anyone with the skills to use SR successfully could also trade CP successfully. I don't support CP or pedos though, just stating the facts.
You're assuming that this was a clearnet website and not a hidden service on the tor network. If it was a hidden service, then your premise is wrong; they could catch us as easily as they caught the peds.
There are plenty of pedo hidden services. You can trade that shit and remain anonymous on them. If they found the server of a pedo hidden service, all of the users are still anonymous. You don't give your fucking name or address or anything like we have to do.
There are plenty of busted pedo hidden services too, the past two years have seen dozens of CP traders and hidden services on Tor being pwnt by feds.
I don't do any research on the subject. How were they deanonymized? I feel pedos are dumber than us in general because of the stupid shit I have read about them doing. Surely these busts had to of been the pedos fault... I'm sure they did something wrong. Pedos were stupid enough to download a firefox plugin called "Honey Pawt" with pedobear as the logo and they got the link to the download from the CP page of the hidden wiki. Things like this make me feel like pedos are generally much dumber than us.
There is actually evidence supporting the idea that on average pedophiles have below average intelligence. One study showed that the lower a persons age of attraction is below societal norms, the lower below average their IQ is likely to be (with pedophile average IQ being significantly below average, hebephile average IQ being slightly below average, and teliophile IQ being average). There is also a positive correlation between childhood head injury and pedophilia. Of course there are always exceptions though, some of the online pedophile groups clearly consist of members with superior intelligence.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
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“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
Let's do a double blind experiment. We can hook up one of these abused children to all kinds of medical devices that measure pain, their brainwaves, heart rate, fucking everything. Then we have someone in a different city load their CP images 20 times with random time intervals between them. If the best medical experts in the world can detect changes in the child that correlate with the images being loaded, then we can accept the claim this dumbshit is making. Otherwise it is conclusively and empirically disproved. Anyone want to bet on the odds?
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Maybe she should opt out of the program she is in where she is notified every single time when someone is busted with one of her CP files, if it is really causing her so much damage. Of course then she wouldn't be able to demand restitution from all of the people caught with her images, which is currently making her a small fortune. I mean it sucks that she was molested, but maybe they should find somebody who isn't the poster child for making money off their past abuse to be their poster child for 'people downloading CP with me in it causes me horrible pain every single time'. Just a thought!
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Well that is a huge indication that it is a Tor hidden service. Clearnet jailbait = 14+ , Tor jailbait = 9+ .
jesus christ, victim blaming much?? dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh?? you'd think SOMEONE would've seen SOMETHING... :-X and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist. fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
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“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
Let's do a double blind experiment. We can hook up one of these abused children to all kinds of medical devices that measure pain, their brainwaves, heart rate, fucking everything. Then we have someone in a different city load their CP images 20 times with random time intervals between them. If the best medical experts in the world can detect changes in the child that correlate with the images being loaded, then we can accept the claim this dumbshit is making. Otherwise it is conclusively and empirically disproved. Anyone want to bet on the odds?
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Maybe she should opt out of the program she is in where she is notified every single time when someone is busted with one of her CP files, if it is really causing her so much damage. Of course then she wouldn't be able to demand restitution from all of the people caught with her images, which is currently making her a small fortune. I mean it sucks that she was molested, but maybe they should find somebody who isn't the poster child for making money off their past abuse to be their poster child for 'people downloading CP with me in it causes me horrible pain every single time'. Just a thought!
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Well that is a huge indication that it is a Tor hidden service. Clearnet jailbait = 14+ , Tor jailbait = 9+ .
jesus christ, victim blaming much?? dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh?? you'd think SOMEONE would've seen SOMETHING... :-X and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist. fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
I 100% agree with your sentiments heavyreader. +1 for you. I have always respected kmfkewm and his in depth knowledge on Security and Libertarian related subjects, however, I can't believe what I've just read here. It's obvious to me from what you've posted here, that you have no idea in real life terms of the magnitude of a child's pain and suffering, mental anguish, re-occurring nightmares, etc, which they will carry with them to the day they die. These sick creatures, cunts of the worst kind imaginable, deserve whatever punishment they receive and then some. These depraved, evil, cold-hearted bastards should be shot dead AND NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ANOTHER BREATH OF AIR. To take away a child's innocence forever and scar them for life is just an unimaginable act IMO and could NEVER be justified or defended under any circumstance whatsoever, PERIOD. Picking apart statements using sentences made by either a victim or a prosecutor is stooping to a level beyond my comprehension and that of any compassionate human being.
Seriously mate, I respect your right to have an opinion but there's certain things in life which require a person to show a little bit of decorum with the less said on the topic, the better. There is NOTHING in this world which could change my way of thinking about these sick bastards and like heavyreader has already pointed out, you make me want to vomit as well! It's one thing to stand up for what you believe in but not at the expense of a poor, innocent child having their childhood stolen from beneath them with total disregard for anything but their own personal gratification. God help one of these sick bastards if they ever cross my path in life!! Let's hope you all rot in hell for the crimes you committed against innocent children because that's exactly where you belong for eternity. >:( >:( >:(
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whatthefuckamireading.jpg
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Damn this thread has turned into an episode of to catch a predator...My intent was to highlight the FBI's tactics of infiltration. People are fucking nuts...
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kmfkewm, why don't you come have a seat over here...
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Thanks, asshole.
:o
I had a wonderful idea a while back.. I was drinking alot, depressed and strung out on coke, so it was rare that you could catch me in a good mood during those times. One night, after drinking heavily I decided that it would be a good idea to stalk one of the child molesters that we could find on the list here locally, we would get him outside then just beat him till he was ground beef.
I shared this idea with a couple of acquaintances that night. No one else thought it was a good idea. Fuckin' pussies.
The reason I bring this up, is because it is painfully obvious that the "authorities" are way too soft on these scum. I am gonna take a stab in the dark here, and say it's partly because those who make the "rules" are so fucking obsessed with ancient greek culture (ie: Skull & Bones Fraternity, Yale.) that you KNOW those cats are down for some down low young male company.
And don't get it twisted, overly PC ass muthafuckers. This shit isn't a hobby, or a mere "Interest" to these types who like to fuck kids... It's a lifestyle. These scum will never stop, unless WE take em the fuck out our god damn selves.
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The reason I bring this up, is because it is painfully obvious that the "authorities" are way too soft on these scum.
Yes. You can get caught molesting children three times before you do more than a year in prison in some states.
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Which is why I still at times feel that it would be appropriate to take out the trash ourselves. Jail is cold and dirty though, and I hear the weed is expensive.. So no vigilante justice for MC Haberdasher today.
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Which is why I still at times feel that it would be appropriate to take out the trash ourselves. Jail is cold and dirty though, and I hear the weed is expensive.. So no vigilante justice for MC Haberdasher today.
jail is not a good place to be for a pedo.. you WILL be targeted, often times they are actually given special protection because of this, which only serves to make them even more of a target really.. when i got stuck in a scared straight program (hilarious) as a kid we went to a large county jail and they showed us a room where 8 guys had barricaded the entrance with their bunks, wrapped a pedo in a white sheet and beat him until the entire sheet turned red.. there was still plenty of dried bloodstains from the incident on the floor and wall, and a bunch of nicks and dents in the concrete floor from where they'd stomped his head in at the end. this was a 45-minute long non-stop beating, and after talking with one of the prison guards i got the feeling that none of them were exactly gung-ho about interfering, if you know what i mean.. needless to say his ass is rotting in the state cemetery right now, for some reason nobody would claim the body ::)
also, @asshole, wat the shit are u posting.. jesus what a horrifying thread that is, to me it's even scarier than shit like "o i would rape the hell out of her" because it's trying to paint a picture of child abuse as just harmless, at least the former recognizes the gravity of their actions.. just the username "luckydaddy" fuckin freaks me out..
people are fucked up, man.. it never ceases to amaze me just HOW fucked up they are, though.. shit catches you off-guard :-\ im gonna go smoke a fuckin 1/2 oz of hash now and take a shower, just makes me feel gross all over..
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
wat the FUCK are you talking about.. what is irrational or illogical about being disgusted by people who rape kids and people who get off to others doing it?? fuck your libertarian bullshit, shouldn't kids have the liberty to not get FUCKING RAPED god seriously there is no rationalization for this kind of abuse or the behavior that encourages it (like viewing/sharing CP)... stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
in 100 years i have a weird feeling that it will still probably NOT be okay to rape kids, but i guess we all have different visions of the future.. zero tolerance for this shit
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Thank you Libertas for taking out the trash
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Thank you Libertas for taking out the trash
seconded god many thanks Libertas.. disgusting, i was really hoping that was against some kind of rule..
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The pedobears have got brazen now they have Tor,the cunts think they are mainstream.I hope they all get caught.
Ive had a bit of a delve in to the deep web,real deep, and what i saw scared me.I used to wonder if snuff,rape and torture movies existed and Tor answered all my questions.You can get anything for a price.
People are so cruel.
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I hope they all get caught.
Agreed.
Ive had a bit of a delve in to the deep web,real deep, and what i saw scared me.I used to wonder if snuff,rape and torture movies existed and Tor answered all my questions.You can get anything for a price.
All of that is on clearweb in abundance, except snuff. I am a connoisseur of fucked up videos (not rape or cp) and I have never seen snuff. I have seen plenty of people get killed but never a snuff film. Snuff is a legend. I have never even talked to someone who has seen legitimate snuff. There is fake snuff on the clearweb though.
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I never believed such things existed either,and im not even comfortable talking about them, but i can tell u that the worse things u can possibly imagine being done to a human being(torture/rape/death) can be bought on video in HD quality but it costs big $$$$.
Thats all im gona say on the matter.
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Which is why I still at times feel that it would be appropriate to take out the trash ourselves. Jail is cold and dirty though, and I hear the weed is expensive.. So no vigilante justice for MC Haberdasher today.
jail is not a good place to be for a pedo.. you WILL be targeted, often times they are actually given special protection because of this, which only serves to make them even more of a target really..
I was talking about ME going to jail for whoopin' some skinner's ass. Jail isn't a good place for anyone.
people are fucked up, man.. it never ceases to amaze me just HOW fucked up they are, though.. shit catches you off-guard :-\ im gonna go smoke a fuckin 1/2 oz of hash now and take a shower, just makes me feel gross all over..
Shit, 14 grams? I just smoked about 300mg of this ridiculously hard pressed keif with some cheese and I just wanna eat and pass out. But I'm waiting on the mailman.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
wat the FUCK are you talking about.. what is irrational or illogical about being disgusted by people who rape kids and people who get off to others doing it?? fuck your libertarian bullshit, shouldn't kids have the liberty to not get FUCKING RAPED god seriously there is no rationalization for this kind of abuse or the behavior that encourages it (like viewing/sharing CP)... stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
in 100 years i have a weird feeling that it will still probably NOT be okay to rape kids, but i guess we all have different visions of the future.. zero tolerance for this shit
Thank God there are still some people in this world like heavyreader who are passionate about the protection of a child's innocence from the deep rooted depravity that some adults exhibit. Regardless of where you're from, your religious beliefs or principles you follow and live your life by, there is NOTHING in this world which would ever justify the existence of CP or it's use by human beings in today's society. Those caught watching videos, looking at images, making it or distributing it should never again see the light of day and forfeit all rights to live as a human being amongst us. Instead, they should be treated like the animals they are and afforded the level of compassion they showed their victims.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
wat the FUCK are you talking about.. what is irrational or illogical about being disgusted by people who rape kids and people who get off to others doing it?? fuck your libertarian bullshit, shouldn't kids have the liberty to not get FUCKING RAPED god seriously there is no rationalization for this kind of abuse or the behavior that encourages it (like viewing/sharing CP)... stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
in 100 years i have a weird feeling that it will still probably NOT be okay to rape kids, but i guess we all have different visions of the future.. zero tolerance for this shit
Those caught watching videos, looking at images, making it or distributing it should never again see the light of day and forfeit all rights to live as a human being amongst us. Instead, they should be treated like the animals they are and afforded the level of compassion they showed their victims.
Word. Round em up, and send those pieces of shit to a Siberian slave labor camp. Indefinite detention with quite possibly the most surly and rugged dudes in the Northern Hemisphere might be a bit more of what they need.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
wat the FUCK are you talking about.. what is irrational or illogical about being disgusted by people who rape kids and people who get off to others doing it?? fuck your libertarian bullshit, shouldn't kids have the liberty to not get FUCKING RAPED god seriously there is no rationalization for this kind of abuse or the behavior that encourages it (like viewing/sharing CP)... stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
in 100 years i have a weird feeling that it will still probably NOT be okay to rape kids, but i guess we all have different visions of the future.. zero tolerance for this shit
Those caught watching videos, looking at images, making it or distributing it should never again see the light of day and forfeit all rights to live as a human being amongst us. Instead, they should be treated like the animals they are and afforded the level of compassion they showed their victims.
Word. Round em up, and send those pieces of shit to a Siberian slave labor camp. Indefinite detention with quite possibly the most surly and rugged dudes in the Northern Hemisphere might be a bit more of what they need.
I've always wondered why we don't just send all murderers, rapists and child molesters to one of the many uninhabited islands tens of thousands of miles out in the middle of nowhere...
It seems like a logical solution to me. Let them fight it out together in solitude amongst people with their own beliefs.
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“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
Let's do a double blind experiment. We can hook up one of these abused children to all kinds of medical devices that measure pain, their brainwaves, heart rate, fucking everything. Then we have someone in a different city load their CP images 20 times with random time intervals between them. If the best medical experts in the world can detect changes in the child that correlate with the images being loaded, then we can accept the claim this dumbshit is making. Otherwise it is conclusively and empirically disproved. Anyone want to bet on the odds?
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Maybe she should opt out of the program she is in where she is notified every single time when someone is busted with one of her CP files, if it is really causing her so much damage. Of course then she wouldn't be able to demand restitution from all of the people caught with her images, which is currently making her a small fortune. I mean it sucks that she was molested, but maybe they should find somebody who isn't the poster child for making money off their past abuse to be their poster child for 'people downloading CP with me in it causes me horrible pain every single time'. Just a thought!
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Well that is a huge indication that it is a Tor hidden service. Clearnet jailbait = 14+ , Tor jailbait = 9+ .
jesus christ, victim blaming much?? dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh?? you'd think SOMEONE would've seen SOMETHING... :-X and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist. fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
Why do you equate people watching child pornography with people who molested children? Your inability to differentiate is largely responsible for you coming across as a fucking retard. Do you think that video footage of bank robberies should be illegal? How about the Boston Marathon bombing? Tons of people saw video footage of that, I am sure a lot of the radical Islamic people even greatly enjoyed it. Do you think every time someone views footage of the Boston Bombing, that the victims are bombed all over again? See to me it appears that you have, in a select area of cognition, a developmental delay. I would be less surprised to hear that a very young child thinks that looking at an image causes what happened in the image to happen again. When I hear ostensible adults with this mentality I am left scratching my head. It is so obviously untrue that I simply don't understand how anybody could actually think that it is true, unless they have a mental disability.
I 100% agree with your sentiments heavyreader. +1 for you. I have always respected kmfkewm and his in depth knowledge on Security and Libertarian related subjects
Legalizing child pornography possession is one of the goals of the Libertarian party. Child pornography possession being a crime is extremely against the goals of Libertarianism.
however, I can't believe what I've just read here. It's obvious to me from what you've posted here, that you have no idea in real life terms of the magnitude of a child's pain and suffering, mental anguish, re-occurring nightmares, etc, which they will carry with them to the day they die. These sick creatures, cunts of the worst kind imaginable, deserve whatever punishment they receive and then some. These depraved, evil, cold-hearted bastards should be shot dead AND NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ANOTHER BREATH OF AIR. To take away a child's innocence forever and scar them for life is just an unimaginable act IMO and could NEVER be justified or defended under any circumstance whatsoever, PERIOD. Picking apart statements using sentences made by either a victim or a prosecutor is stooping to a level beyond my comprehension and that of any compassionate human being.
To me it appears that you think I am defending child molesters. This is not the case, of course child molestation should be a crime. However, it is very likely that you are creating a false equivalency between child molestation and child porn consumers. Don't feel too bad I suppose, it is not your fault that you are surrounded with propaganda that causes this phenomenon to occur in susceptible people. Hopefully over time you can heal yourself and achieve an appropriate level of cognitive development, allowing you to differentiate between these very different things.
First of all I don't have any problem with picking apart what that prosecutor said, because it is clearly bullshit and voodoo and totally illogical. If molested children were actually measurably revictimized every single time one of their CP images was loaded off the internet, then they would be used by intelligence agencies as covert quantum encryption hubs. You see, when a person is violently raped certain neurological and other biological phenomenon manifest. Levels of stress hormones will increase, neurons in the brain associated with pain will fire, etc. Now this prosecutor is arguing that something similar to quantum entanglement takes place when a child is photographed being violently raped, essentially his argument is that the child is permanently entangled with the images of the molestation such that every time the images are observed a corresponding state is in reality created in the child. Therefor molested children are the perfect channels for covert communications!
Simply recruit these molested children as human intelligence agents and plant them in the target organization as undercover agents. Instead of having to use imperfect systems such as Tor and GPG to securely and covertly communicate with the agent, their case officers can send communications to them by viewing their child pornography images in time modulated patterns! Since there is no tapable physical connection between the case officer and the field agent, there is no need to encrypt the communications; this achieves a state of security similar to quantum entanglement based cryptography. Additionally, the lack of a scientifically measurable link between the case officer and the field agent results in total resistance to all forms of traffic analysis! The communicated information can be retrieved by the field agent simply by using a device that measures the levels of stress hormone in the body over time; since loading the CP images causes the field agent to live through the abuse again, their body will release stress hormones in a time modulated pattern that correlates with the time modulated pattern in which the CP images are viewed.
As far as the girl goes, I agree that it sucks she was molested. But she has a good reason to lobby for child pornography to remain illegal to possess, she makes a fortune off of court ordered restitution from the people who are caught with images of her being abused as a child. Of course she claims that it causes her enormous damage blah blah blah, she has made a career out of getting restitution from people viewing her CP images. Her quote about how much it hurts her when people view her CP images, was probably given to a judge at a restitution hearing when he was deciding how much money somebody owes her. I am just saying that this is hardly a neutral party. If knowing that people view her images really upsets her so much, doesn't it stand to reason that she would opt out of being notified every single time someone is arrested with CP that features her? To me it seems apparent that she values the income she makes more than she values not knowing that people view images of her.
Seriously mate, I respect your right to have an opinion but there's certain things in life which require a person to show a little bit of decorum with the less said on the topic, the better. There is NOTHING in this world which could change my way of thinking about these sick bastards and like heavyreader has already pointed out, you make me want to vomit as well! It's one thing to stand up for what you believe in but not at the expense of a poor, innocent child having their childhood stolen from beneath them with total disregard for anything but their own personal gratification. God help one of these sick bastards if they ever cross my path in life!! Let's hope you all rot in hell for the crimes you committed against innocent children because that's exactly where you belong for eternity. >:( >:( >:(
We should not all shut up and accept these ludicrous and absolutely impossible claims made by the government and people with financial interest. Being silent while people are spewing out bullshit goes against my personality entirely. By the time somebody looks at CP the poor innocent child has already had their childhood stolen from them.
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
Honestly I am mostly just frustrated that revictimization is such an obvious and widely accepted scientific position, but none of the covert channel systems I have designed using it as a back end have been given any merit by the scientific community! People pay fortunes for quantum entanglement cryptosystems, and I believe that I have proven that I can implement a system with similar security properties, provided that revictimization is actually scientifically valid. It doesn't make sense to me that people accept revictimization wholeheartedly, but they think my system is a mockery!
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You can make the same argument about drugs. LE infiltrates a drug ring and allows dealers to sell to buyers. Suppose one of them dies. Under the law, the vendor gets 20+ years for contributing to the death of a person, not LE.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's how liability works under the law. LE gets off for a lot of shit. They basically have no equivalent of a good Samaritan law.
If you couldn't tell I was being extremely sarcastic. Anyone who thinks this LE operation resulted in 12,000 child rapes is a fucking retard. Anyone who thinks that it didn't result in 12,000 child rapes but that the pedophiles viewing the images did is a fucking retard and brainwashed. The only logical conclusion is that neither the FBI nor the pedophiles viewing the images caused any child rape at all. The illogical conclusion is that the FBI caused 12,000 rapes, the illogical and hypocritical conclusion is that the FBI didn't but the people downloading the images did.
kmfkewm,
your sarcasm betrays your frustration with people's inability to understand your position. You're saying that the fbi is being hypocritical when they say that viewing CP hurts children, and yet the fbi used REAL CP to nab peds. Clearly the fbi's position is that viewing CP is a victimless crime, otherwise they wouldn't have setup up this type of operation.
Unfortunately this kind of thread also attracts peds and the psychos who want to kill them as well as anyone that's trying to discuss libertarian principles and how they apply to this touchy subject. There's no way to have a rational, logical discussion about this topic. Maybe in a 100 years from now.
wat the FUCK are you talking about.. what is irrational or illogical about being disgusted by people who rape kids and people who get off to others doing it?? fuck your libertarian bullshit, shouldn't kids have the liberty to not get FUCKING RAPED god seriously there is no rationalization for this kind of abuse or the behavior that encourages it (like viewing/sharing CP)... stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid
in 100 years i have a weird feeling that it will still probably NOT be okay to rape kids, but i guess we all have different visions of the future.. zero tolerance for this shit
A little over 100 years ago pedophilia was legal in most of the world. In 1880 no US state had an age of consent over 12. I am not arguing that this is a good thing though, I am simply showing you that 100 years can change a lot. I do hope that in 100 years people realize that photography is not magic though!
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Instead, they should be treated like the animals they are and afforded the level of compassion they showed their victims.
So they should be left entirely alone but have pictures that were taken of them in the past viewed by random people?
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But the thing is that my position is entirely sensitive! It is sensitive to the victims of the war on child pornography. The millions of people every year who are arrested, sent to prison for decades and branded as sex offenders for life simply because they looked at some pictures. People who want child pornography possession to be criminalized are the ones being insensitive to the victims of child pornography. Looking at pictures of somebody being abused actually DOESN'T cause them to be abused again. Some random fuck looking at a picture of an abused child causes approximately 0 measurable damage to the child in the picture. If it causes damage how about we show it in a scientific double blind study? No studies like this exist and if they did they would certainly, beyond any doubt at all, prove that someone viewing a picture of child molestation does not remotely cause measurable harm to the depicted child. Anybody who disagrees with this is arguing something about as believable as the Bible for fucks sake! They have faith that somebody viewing CP damages the depicted children, they will straight up ignore any science regarding the subject.
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jesus christ, victim blaming much??
I don't blame her for being raped, that is her dads fault. However, I think it is pertinent to mention that the child victim who is most outspoken about the damage people viewing CP cause to the victim, makes a fortune off of the fact that it is illegal to view CP.
dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
According to the most recent consensus in the mental health community, pedophiles are attracted to children ages 13 or younger. However, the medical definition varies depending on the source; historically pedophiles are those who are attracted to non-infantile prepubescent children regardless of the age of the child. Certainly I am not attracted to prepubescent children, so by the historical definition of pedophilia I am not a pedophile. Pubescent children are also not immediately attractive to me, so even by the modern definition of pedophilia I don't really qualify as one. Like the overwhelming majority of males, I do find that I am attracted to mid and late stage pubescent people, approximately aged 14 and above. Depending on the definition you go by, this would mean that I meet one of the diagnostic criteria for either hebephilia and/or ephebephilia. The classical definition of hebephilia is attraction to those aged 11-14, and the classical definition of ephebephilia is attraction to those aged 15-19. However, modern definitions are more likely to include downward leeway of about a year, which would mean I meet one of the medical criteria for ephebephilia but not really hebephilia. On the other hand, there is a small movement of psychologists who argue that pedophilia and hebephilia should be merged together into a new disorder called hebepedophilia, which entails attraction to those 2-14 years old. Thankfully they are such a minority that they have not been able to influence any of the diagnostic criteria! Of course colloquially the term pedophilia is used to describe anybody who has attraction to anyone under the age of consent, which ranges within the USA from age 16 to 18, depending on the state. From a world wide point of view the age of consent varies more significantly, with most countries having legalized ephebephilia and some countries even having legalized hebephilia. However, as I am not exclusively attracted to those aged 14-19, I would at 'worst' receive a diagnosis of nonexclusive ephebephilia.
So my answer to your claim that I am a pedophile needs to be broken down.
Medically speaking in a classical sense : No, in no cases am I attracted to prepubescent children
Medically speaking in a modern sense : Not really, in almost no cases am I sexually attracted to those 13 or younger
Medically speaking from the perspective of a proponent of hebepedophilia : Yes, I do find that 14 year olds are frequently capable of being sexually attractive
Colloquially speaking : Possibly, in USA yes, in many parts of Europe no
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh??
Not really, projects tend to have a strict no snitching policy.
and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist.
Do you equate giving birth to murder if the child is murdered, because if the mother had not given birth in the first place the child wouldn't even exist to be murdered?
fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
Nope never had to do any of those unpleasant things. It sounds like you mostly have issue with the people who are raping children, I don't know why you have created a false equivalence between them and the people who view images of children being raped.
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jesus christ, victim blaming much??
I don't blame her for being raped, that is her dads fault. However, I think it is pertinent to mention that the child victim who is most outspoken about the damage people viewing CP cause to the victim, makes a fortune off of the fact that it is illegal to view CP.
dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
According to the most recent consensus in the mental health community, pedophiles are attracted to children ages 13 or younger. However, the medical definition varies depending on the source; historically pedophiles are those who are attracted to prepubescent children regardless of the age of the child. Certainly I am not attracted to prepubescent children, so by the historical definition of pedophilia I am not a pedophile. Pubescent children are also not immediately attractive to me, so even by the modern definition of pedophilia I don't really qualify as one. Like the overwhelming majority of males, I do find that I am attracted to mid and late stage pubescent people, approximately aged 14 and above. Depending on the definition you go by, this would mean that I meet one of the diagnostic criteria for either hebephilia and/or ephebephilia. The classical definition of hebephilia is attraction to those aged 11-14, and the classical definition of ephebephilia is attraction to those aged 15-19. However, modern definitions are more likely to include downward leeway of about a year, which would mean I meet one of the medical criteria for ephebephilia but not really hebephilia. On the other hand, there is a small movement of psychologists who argue that pedophilia and hebephilia should be merged together into a new disorder called hebepedophilia, which entails attraction to those 2-14 years old. Thankfully they are such a minority that they have not been able to influence any of the diagnostic criteria! Of course colloquially the term pedophilia is used to describe anybody who has attraction to anyone under the age of consent, which ranges within the USA from age 16 to 18, depending on the state. From a world wide point of view the age of consent varies more significantly, with most countries having legalized ephebephilia and some countries even having legalized hebephilia. However, as I am not exclusively attracted to those aged 14-19, I would at 'worst' receive a diagnosis of nonexclusive ephebephilia.
So my answer to your claim that I am a pedophile needs to be broken down.
Medically speaking in a classical sense : No, in no cases am I attracted to prepubescent children
Medically speaking in a modern sense : Not really, in almost no cases am I sexually attracted to those 13 or younger
Medically speaking from the perspective of a proponent of hebepedophilia : Yes, I do find that 14 year olds are frequently capable of being sexually attractive
Colloquially speaking : Possibly, depending on the country that I am currently residing in
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh??
Not really, projects tend to have a strict no snitching policy.
and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist.
Do you equate giving birth to murder if the child is murdered, because if the mother had not given birth in the first place the child wouldn't even exist to be murdered?
fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
Nope never had to do any of those unpleasant things. It sounds like you mostly have issue with the people who are raping children, I don't know why you have created a false equivalence between them and the people who view images of children being raped.
you are seriously still trying to defend these people.. i honestly have no real response for you, going into semantics about the abuse of children and those who encourage it is just a whole other level of sickening to me. and as for your main argument, the birth analogy is fucking IDIOTIC.. it makes ZERO sense and once again, you are REALLY trying to defend people who both create and consume CP here. jesus christ you're a fucking stupid douchebag, and a disgusting one at that.. please just die and get the fuck out of the way
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i just went back a page and actually read through your other two posts in response. no comment, talking about this is emotionally disturbing to me in and of itself but hearing the way you talk about it is even worse.. you're obviously very set in your fucked up belief system and im obviously not going to change my position..
please feel free to continue to believe that, as for me, this is exactly what the "ignore" feature was created for.. later douche
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Legalizing child pornography possession is one of the goals of the Libertarian party. Child pornography possession being a crime is extremely against the goals of Libertarianism.
Keep dreaming. (you're clearly confusing Liberals with Libertarians)
That wouldn't jive with property rights. Can anyone use my image for anything they want?... no. I don't see why you're so hung up about the contention that pedo victims are wronged each time their images/video are shared without their permission, especially pics/videos of them being abused. The only explanation for this is quite obvious. It's such a minute inane argument to pick, anyone who is anti-pedo could care less about this bs splitting of hairs. But since you keep droning on about it...
I think you're looking at it backwards. The victims aren't necessarily physically/physiologically re-offended when you sicko's trade their pics/video... but the reaction, the satisfaction the offenders get from it IS the same. The original offender raped the kid for gratification... you sicko's dl the images/video for the same gratification. The goal/motivation for the crime is recommitted each time one of you sicko's jerks it to said material... thus each time any of this material is traded, it's as if the crime is happening again. If I write a book, everyone copying that book without my permission is offending me each and every time.
Like you could seriously say that if you (or your kids, wife, grandma) were videotaped being brutally raped... that the video should be allowed to remain public???
My image, DNA, or thoughts, are not the property of you or the government... nor is that of my kids.
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and as for your main argument, the birth analogy is fucking IDIOTIC.. it makes ZERO sense and once again, you are REALLY trying to defend people who both create and consume CP here. jesus christ you're a fucking stupid douchebag, and a disgusting one at that.. please just die and get the fuck out of the way
I agree that the birth analogy is fucking idiotic. But it is your own logic.
and yes, i do equate [downloading and sharing CP] to [pimping out kids], because [if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place], then [the images wouldn't even exist.]
and yes, i do equate [x] to [y], because if not [y], then not [x].
and yes, I do equate [giving birth] to [murder], because if somebody is [not given birth to], then it is [not possible to murder them].
Logically your statement is: if not Y then not X, therefor X == Y
We can fill it in with all kinds of absurd shit:
If not birth then not death, therefor birth is death
If not molestation then not CP, therefor CP is molestation
if not water then not life, therefor water is life
here is a hint: it sounds retarded and illogical in all cases.
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Logically your statement is: if not Y then not X, therefor X == Y
We can fill it in with all kinds of absurd shit:
If not birth then not death, therefor birth is death
If not molestation then not CP, therefor CP is molestation
if not water then not life, therefor water is life
here is a hint: it sounds retarded and illogical in all cases.
http://www.waterislife.com/
http://www.waterisliferun.org/
http://water-is-life.blogspot.com/
http://www.waterislifeinternational.org/
http://host.nacdnet.org/stewardship/2008/downloads/images/waterislifeNACDnoDate.jpg
;D
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water is life...
on arrakis..
+1 nicknack for putting the pedo in its place
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Keep dreaming. (you're clearly confusing Liberals with Libertarians)
Keep dreaming yourself. How about you look up the official Libertarian party position on child pornography possession? I already know 100% for a fact that the Libertarian party of the USA 100% supports complete legalization of child pornography possession and distribution.
http://reason.com/blog/2008/04/23/suffer-the-little-children
An anonymous commenter at the invaluable Third Party Watch posted a series of quotes on child sex allegedly from left-libertarian presidential candidate Mary Ruwart's book Short Answers to the Tough Questions. I've looked through the book, and, yes: This is Ruwart's response to the question "How can a libertarian argue against child pornography?"
Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally. Some children will make poor choices just as some adults do in smoking and drinking to excess. When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will.
The anonymous anti-Ruwartian's tone is pretty smear-y... nonetheless, it's accurate to say that Ruwart argued against at least anti-child pornography law and at most laws convering statutory rape. Ruwart is right up there with Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root as a frontrunner for the LP nomination, so I'm curious as to 1)who's digging this up and 2)who will turn against her because of it.
A prominent libertarian politician straight up resigned from the party when he attacked her for making those claims, due to the massive backlash the party had to him.
http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/04/25/libertarian-presidential-front-runner-defends-child-porn/
Liberals are more likely to favor mandatory 'treatment' for those arrested possessing child pornography, where as conservatives of course advocate that they are locked up with the key thrown away. The libertarian position is more liberal than the liberal position, they advocate that distribution of child pornography and possession of child pornography be decriminalized.
That wouldn't jive with property rights. Can anyone use my image for anything they want?... no.
Can anybody go to prison for taking your picture and using it for anything they want? Not usually. In the majority of cases it would be a civil rather than a criminal matter. In all cases where the person using your image is using it for personal viewing only, it would be a civil rather than a criminal matter. Right now viewing child pornography is a serious felony punishable by up to thirty years in prison, large amounts of financial restitution to the depicted children and a lifetime as a registered sex offender. In a libertarian world, it would either be completely legal to view child pornography, or it would be a civil matter punishable by a fine but not jail time.
I don't see why you're so hung up about the contention that pedo victims are wronged each time their images/video are shared without their permission, especially pics/videos of them being abused. The only explanation for this is quite obvious. It's such a minute inane argument to pick, anyone who is anti-pedo could care less about this bs splitting of hairs. But since you keep droning on about it...
I am not really hung up on it, it is just the most easily destroyed claim made by those in favor of child pornography possession being criminal. It is so stupid that it makes them look beyond retarded. It is also the original claim I saw made by the prosecutor mentioned in the first part of this article. More sophisticated dumbshits argue the market theory for criminalization, that argument makes a bit more sense in that it is not based on voodoo witchdoctor magic, but of course it is also incorrect.
I think you're looking at it backwards. The victims aren't necessarily physically/physiologically re-offended when you sicko's trade their pics/video... but the reaction, the satisfaction the offenders get from it IS the same. The original offender raped the kid for gratification... you sicko's dl the images/video for the same gratification. The goal/motivation for the crime is recommitted each time one of you sicko's jerks it to said material... thus each time any of this material is traded, it's as if the crime is happening again.
So if somebody is attracted to children and adults, and they get the same sexual satisfaction from child pornography and adult pornography, you think it should be illegal for them to look at adult pornography as well? So pretty much you are just upset about people who have sexual attraction to children being sexually satisfied in any way, regardless of if any children are harmed or not???
My motivation for taking drugs is pleasure. A pedophiles motivation for raping children is pleasure. Since we both have pleasure as our goal/motivation, does that mean that drug use is equal to child molestation?
If I write a book, everyone copying that book without my permission is offending me each and every time.
Anybody who illegally views a copy of your book is committing a civil offense not punishable by prison time. The copier is committing a criminal offense, but it isn't anywhere near as bad of a charge as that of distributing child pornography.
Like you could seriously say that if you (or your kids, wife, grandma) were videotaped being brutally raped... that the video should be allowed to remain public???
My image, DNA, or thoughts, are not the property of you or the government... nor is that of my kids.
Your DNA is the property of whoever collects it off public property, if you leave it in public it is public property by current law. You do have some rights to your image and definitely have the right to your thoughts. This is the only libertarian argument that exists against child pornography, it is not an argument that child pornography should be illegal but rather is an argument that child pornography is the property of the children depicted in it. Therefor it should fall under all of the civil and criminal protections of other sorts of property. In such a case mere illegal possession of child pornography for personal use would be punishable by a fine at the worst, and even illegal distribution of child pornography would carry a much less significant potential sentence. So the libertarians who do argue this way are indeed still in favor of decriminalization of child pornography possession and distribution, just with the permission of the property owner. However many libertarian anarchists are against the concept of intellectual property itself, so they would be in favor of complete legalization of the distribution and possession of all child pornography in all cases.
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So let's see the logical constructs used by the people arguing against me so far:
Let's start with contestant number one: if not X then not Y, therefor X == Y
[if not life then not death, therefor life is death]
next up we have nicknacks argument: if X OR Y then Z, therefor X == Y
[if you drown in water or you burn to death then you die, therefor drowning is burning to death]
would anybody else like to give it a shot?
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Nobody even responded, but you couldn't help yourself, could you?
Mods, can we get this moved to Philosophy, Economics, and Law? This has nothing to do with Security anymore.
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No, I cannot help but point out logical fallacies. This thread still has everything to do with security, by applying the science of criminology to the goals of cryptology we have invented a new sort of quasi-quantum entanglement based covert channel.
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I call it Computerized Hormonal Oscillation : Molestation Oscillation Networking. Stress hormones increase during molestation and viewing CP causes molestation to take place again, across time and space. By time modulating the viewing of CP on one end and monitoring for fluctuating levels of stress hormone on the other, we can communicate securely with zero probability of intercept. Shit's real just ask the prosecutor quoted in the original article.
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You're off your rocker tonight, kmf. This is mainly a debate about the legality of CP, and there's a more relevant forum for that.
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Thus far it has mostly been a debate about if revictimization is real, ie: if child porn being viewed leads to the child depicted being molested all over again, or if viewing child porn is == molesting the child depicted. Considering that a great many criminologists argue for this, and seeing the support the notion has on the forums, I think we must conclude that the majority of people here support the idea that networks of molested children can be used for zero probability of intercept covert channels.
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Cool, STILL not a Security issue. Since there is no science section, take it to Off topic. Quit bumping this shit to the top of this forum.
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Cool, STILL not a Security issue. Since there is no science section, take it to Off topic. Quit bumping this shit to the top of this forum.
But it totally is a security issue! Not only does it provide us with the same security guarantees as the Chinese militaries quantum entanglement system, but it works across any distance!
Look at how much trouble the Chinese went to when all they needed to do was use molested children hooked up to systems that monitor for levels of stress hormone, and systems that quickly flash CP on monitors in patterns set by an observer watching the CP:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/129246-chinese-physicists-achieve-quantum-teleportation-over-60-miles
Hold onto your seats: Chinese physicists are reporting that they’ve successfully teleported photonic qubits (quantum bits) over a distance of 97 kilometers (60mi). This means that quantum data has been transmitted from one point to another, without passing through the intervening space.
Now, before you get too excited, we’re still a long, long way off Willy-Wonka-Mike-Teevee-style teleportation. It’s important to note that the Chinese researchers haven’t actually made a photon disappear and reappear 100 kilometers away; rather, they’ve used quantum entanglement to recreate the same qubit in a new location, with the same subatomic properties as the original qubit. The previous record for transmitting entangled qubits was 16 kilometers, performed by another Chinese team back in 2010.
What’s the purpose of such pseudo-teleportation, then? As always with such things: cryptography, and secure communication links. Modern cryptography is virtually unbreakable, unless the encryption key is compromised — and it can be very hard to get that encryption key to the receiving partner without other people (other intelligence agencies) listening in. With quantum teleportation, you could teleport the encryption key, making man-in-the-middle attacks virtually impossible.
For quantum encryption to work, though, we need to be able to transmit entangled photons over a long distance — and therein lies the crux: According to the researchers, their system should be able to scale up to distances that will reach orbiting satellites. We’re talking years in the future — we’d need to put a quantum communications satellite in orbit first — but this would certainly be the first step towards building a global quantum network.
You see the underlying dynamics of my system are very similar. Since viewing CP causes the child depicted to be molested all over again, and since molestation causes an increase in stress hormone, we can teleport encryption keys over any distance simply by measuring stress hormone levels, over time , in a previously molested child, while loading the CP images of the molested child in a pattern that correlates with the data we want to transmit. It is really a ground breaking technological achievement, and I want to thank all of the scientists in the field of criminology for revealing the underlying mechanism for us to base this new technology on! Talk about an interdisciplinary achievement!
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The main argument is, I admit, about re-victimization when viewing CP, and not the legality, but your quantum entanglement thing is merely a sub-argument. Based on the main argument, which is a question of psychology and therefore science, this belongs in Off Topic.
Jesus, how did I get myself ensnared in this?
Get it out of Security! That's all.
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The main argument is, I admit, about re-victimization when viewing CP, and not the legality, but your quantum entanglement thing is merely a sub-argument. Based on the main argument, which is a question of psychology and therefore science, this belongs in Off Topic.
Jesus, how did I get myself ensnared in this?
Get it out of Security! That's all.
Dude just so you know I entirely agree with you and am just being sarcastic.
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This pedo shit is real. Your devil's advocate pontificating won't get you far once you get locked up for that kiddy porn. For real. I've seen rapo fucks, walking down the tier, get teeth knocked the fuck in for no reason other than being a rapo. of course, YMMV.
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This pedo shit is real. Your devil's advocate pontificating won't get you far once you get locked up for that kiddy porn. For real. I've seen rapo fucks, walking down the tier, get teeth knocked the fuck in for no reason other than being a rapo. of course, YMMV.
Wow, if a bunch of violent street criminals bash peoples teeth in for having CP, that is all the proof I need that it must be a bad thing! I mean, if a bunch of wife beaters, neo nazi skinheads and gang bangers want to kick somebodies teeth in, it is pretty obvious that they are no good! Seriously you are such an obvious bad ass that I am just shaking in my boots knowing that my pontification has upset you, and I will make sure to watch my ass. Doubly so if I am strolling through heavyreaders projects, lest I end up with some caps popped into my ass, or whatever the fuck.
Seriously though I love how half the people who are so outspoken against CP possession appear to have failed to complete their highschool educations. You guys come across like demented psychopathic losers, your arguments are so completely illogical that everybody with a lick of sense knows that you are just fucking idiots, and half of you don't even have any arguments at all you just spew profanity and talk about how much you want to murder pedophiles and how you are super bad asses. For real.
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The pedobears have got brazen now they have Tor,the cunts think they are mainstream.I hope they all get caught.
Ive had a bit of a delve in to the deep web,real deep, and what i saw scared me.I used to wonder if snuff,rape and torture movies existed and Tor answered all my questions.You can get anything for a price.
People are so cruel.
PS koonta, by having 'delved really deep into the deep web' I assume that you have 'stumbled upon' CP. Guess what that makes you in the eyes of society? If you guessed child molester, step forward to collect your prize! Now I know that you probably are in denial and wonder how you could possibly be mistaken for 'one of those people', but the thing is that you have seen the forbidden images and now you are given the mark of the beast! You are in the same boat as all the others who have downloaded CP, part of the scum of the modern world! When you attack people who have downloaded CP, you are throwing insults into a mirror, and only your own denial will keep you from recognizing this fact.
I always love when people say "I think we should totally fuck over everybody who has downloaded CP, because I went and downloaded some CP, and it was fucking gross!". It just reeks of hypocrisy, and the saddest part is that the people who say things like this never even realize that they are calling for their own selves to be fucked over. You know the only difference between you and half of the people locked up for CP possession and receipt? You used Tor and they used Limewire. There is not a moral difference between you, in many cases there isn't even a sexual preference difference between you. The only difference between you and them is that you used Tor and that they used Limewire.
Seriously, if you hope that all of the people who downloaded CP get caught, how about you start by turning yourself in? But no, you are special right? Of course it doesn't apply to YOU! Don't worry, you are not alone, the world is full of special people like you, throwing stones with one hand while sinning with the other. Be grateful that you sinned with Tor instead of Limewire though, it is very likely the only thing that will prevent you from getting your teeth 'knocked the fuck in' while walking down the tier.
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Shoot me in the face, please.
Didn't we agree this didn't belong in Security?
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Shoot me in the face, please.
Didn't we agree this didn't belong in Security?
Until a moderator moves it, it is in security. It seems stupid that we should stop posting in the thread until it is moved to a more appropriate subforum. I highly suggest that people don't click on this thread if they don't want to read it while it is here.
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“Distributing of child pornography – images and videos of real children experiencing the worst moments of their young lives – is not a ‘victimless’ crime, and the heinous nature of this offense should never be diminished by referring to it as ‘just pictures,’” Ellsworth told the court. “The children portrayed … suffer real and permanent damage, for the rest of their lives, each and every time their exploitation is shared over the Internet.”
Let's do a double blind experiment. We can hook up one of these abused children to all kinds of medical devices that measure pain, their brainwaves, heart rate, fucking everything. Then we have someone in a different city load their CP images 20 times with random time intervals between them. If the best medical experts in the world can detect changes in the child that correlate with the images being loaded, then we can accept the claim this dumbshit is making. Otherwise it is conclusively and empirically disproved. Anyone want to bet on the odds?
One of those children – a girl whose father shared images of her being abused that has since become widely shared online – put it more bluntly in a statement to the court filed last year.
“I wish I could feel completely safe, but as long as these images are out there, I never will,” she said in a victim impact statement.
“Every time they are downloaded, I am exploited again, my privacy is breached, and my life feels less and less safe,” she continued. “I will never be able to have control over who sees me raped as a child. It’s all out there for the world to see and it can never be removed from the internet.”
Maybe she should opt out of the program she is in where she is notified every single time when someone is busted with one of her CP files, if it is really causing her so much damage. Of course then she wouldn't be able to demand restitution from all of the people caught with her images, which is currently making her a small fortune. I mean it sucks that she was molested, but maybe they should find somebody who isn't the poster child for making money off their past abuse to be their poster child for 'people downloading CP with me in it causes me horrible pain every single time'. Just a thought!
The Seattle-area man targeted in the investigation is alleged to have accessed a “jailbait” girls section of “Website A” 10 days after investigators took control of it. Specifically, he’s alleged to have accessed photos showing two men raping a 10 to 12 year old girl.
Well that is a huge indication that it is a Tor hidden service. Clearnet jailbait = 14+ , Tor jailbait = 9+ .
jesus christ, victim blaming much?? dude i'm pretty sure you ARE a pedophile at this point, you're seriously defending these fucks. you also seem to know quite a lot about CP and pedophilia in general, which is not something that most people just casually research for fun??? everything that you typed fucking oozes creep and i'm honestly disgusted that anyone here is actually making an argument FOR this (of course you won't openly admit to doing this, even though its obvious). fucking gross dude, fucking insanely gross.
there used to be a guy in my old projects that pimped out children. USED TO BE. somehow he got shot 4 times in broad daylight during a 4th of July barbeque and nobody saw a thing. weird huh?? you'd think SOMEONE would've seen SOMETHING... :-X and yes, i do equate downloading and sharing CP to pimping out kids, because if they hadn't been RAPED AND PHOTOGRAPHED in the first place, then the images wouldn't even exist. fucking sick fuck, i have spent a huge chunk of my life helping people heal from this exact same shit, you have no idea what victims of abuse go through, you could never comprehend it or even imagine it. have you ever had to hold a young girl's hands behind her back while she screamed and begged and cried and pleaded with you to let her tear open the stitches that closed a 2-inch deep self-inflicted gash in each of her forearms, just because the word "daddy" came up in a conversation?? have you ever had to sit and console a frightened, zombified 14yr old that had just spent the past five days locked in a bedroom getting raped on film by their aunt and uncle while getting meth shoved in her ass?? do you want to guess how many days it took before she finally stopped freaking out and fell asleep?? excuse me while i go fucking puke, fuck you
Why do you equate people watching child pornography with people who molested children? Your inability to differentiate is largely responsible for you coming across as a fucking retard. Do you think that video footage of bank robberies should be illegal? How about the Boston Marathon bombing? Tons of people saw video footage of that, I am sure a lot of the radical Islamic people even greatly enjoyed it. Do you think every time someone views footage of the Boston Bombing, that the victims are bombed all over again? See to me it appears that you have, in a select area of cognition, a developmental delay. I would be less surprised to hear that a very young child thinks that looking at an image causes what happened in the image to happen again. When I hear ostensible adults with this mentality I am left scratching my head. It is so obviously untrue that I simply don't understand how anybody could actually think that it is true, unless they have a mental disability.
I 100% agree with your sentiments heavyreader. +1 for you. I have always respected kmfkewm and his in depth knowledge on Security and Libertarian related subjects
Legalizing child pornography possession is one of the goals of the Libertarian party. Child pornography possession being a crime is extremely against the goals of Libertarianism.
however, I can't believe what I've just read here. It's obvious to me from what you've posted here, that you have no idea in real life terms of the magnitude of a child's pain and suffering, mental anguish, re-occurring nightmares, etc, which they will carry with them to the day they die. These sick creatures, cunts of the worst kind imaginable, deserve whatever punishment they receive and then some. These depraved, evil, cold-hearted bastards should be shot dead AND NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE ANOTHER BREATH OF AIR. To take away a child's innocence forever and scar them for life is just an unimaginable act IMO and could NEVER be justified or defended under any circumstance whatsoever, PERIOD. Picking apart statements using sentences made by either a victim or a prosecutor is stooping to a level beyond my comprehension and that of any compassionate human being.
To me it appears that you think I am defending child molesters. This is not the case, of course child molestation should be a crime. However, it is very likely that you are creating a false equivalency between child molestation and child porn consumers. Don't feel too bad I suppose, it is not your fault that you are surrounded with propaganda that causes this phenomenon to occur in susceptible people. Hopefully over time you can heal yourself and achieve an appropriate level of cognitive development, allowing you to differentiate between these very different things.
First of all I don't have any problem with picking apart what that prosecutor said, because it is clearly bullshit and voodoo and totally illogical. If molested children were actually measurably revictimized every single time one of their CP images was loaded off the internet, then they would be used by intelligence agencies as covert quantum encryption hubs. You see, when a person is violently raped certain neurological and other biological phenomenon manifest. Levels of stress hormones will increase, neurons in the brain associated with pain will fire, etc. Now this prosecutor is arguing that something similar to quantum entanglement takes place when a child is photographed being violently raped, essentially his argument is that the child is permanently entangled with the images of the molestation such that every time the images are observed a corresponding state is in reality created in the child. Therefor molested children are the perfect channels for covert communications!
Simply recruit these molested children as human intelligence agents and plant them in the target organization as undercover agents. Instead of having to use imperfect systems such as Tor and GPG to securely and covertly communicate with the agent, their case officers can send communications to them by viewing their child pornography images in time modulated patterns! Since there is no tapable physical connection between the case officer and the field agent, there is no need to encrypt the communications; this achieves a state of security similar to quantum entanglement based cryptography. Additionally, the lack of a scientifically measurable link between the case officer and the field agent results in total resistance to all forms of traffic analysis! The communicated information can be retrieved by the field agent simply by using a device that measures the levels of stress hormone in the body over time; since loading the CP images causes the field agent to live through the abuse again, their body will release stress hormones in a time modulated pattern that correlates with the time modulated pattern in which the CP images are viewed.
As far as the girl goes, I agree that it sucks she was molested. But she has a good reason to lobby for child pornography to remain illegal to possess, she makes a fortune off of court ordered restitution from the people who are caught with images of her being abused as a child. Of course she claims that it causes her enormous damage blah blah blah, she has made a career out of getting restitution from people viewing her CP images. Her quote about how much it hurts her when people view her CP images, was probably given to a judge at a restitution hearing when he was deciding how much money somebody owes her. I am just saying that this is hardly a neutral party. If knowing that people view her images really upsets her so much, doesn't it stand to reason that she would opt out of being notified every single time someone is arrested with CP that features her? To me it seems apparent that she values the income she makes more than she values not knowing that people view images of her.
Seriously mate, I respect your right to have an opinion but there's certain things in life which require a person to show a little bit of decorum with the less said on the topic, the better. There is NOTHING in this world which could change my way of thinking about these sick bastards and like heavyreader has already pointed out, you make me want to vomit as well! It's one thing to stand up for what you believe in but not at the expense of a poor, innocent child having their childhood stolen from beneath them with total disregard for anything but their own personal gratification. God help one of these sick bastards if they ever cross my path in life!! Let's hope you all rot in hell for the crimes you committed against innocent children because that's exactly where you belong for eternity. >:( >:( >:(
We should not all shut up and accept these ludicrous and absolutely impossible claims made by the government and people with financial interest. Being silent while people are spewing out bullshit goes against my personality entirely. By the time somebody looks at CP the poor innocent child has already had their childhood stolen from them.
People who want child pornography possession to be criminalized are the ones being insensitive to the victims of child pornography. Looking at pictures of somebody being abused actually DOESN'T cause them to be abused again.
What sort of logic brings you to make such a ridiculous claim like this? Your posts here are casting a shadow over your grasp on reality and can perhaps explain just how important your detailed, in depth knowledge on security related topics has become to you. Some of us obviously have more to lose than others and for a pedophile, the loss of your anonymity would allow others to see you for what you really are and your perverted beliefs towards children.
How you can continue to post your views here, which as you freely admit are that of someone who indulges in CP, a pedophile, is reprehensible and beyond belief. I don't care for your convoluted, incoherent attempts at justifying the actions of yourself and the other sick fucks who are involved in the depravity of a child's innocence for their own sexual gratification. What a load of bullshit. Any sexual interaction between an adult and a child is an abhorrent act of unquestionable horror in the eyes of a person with a moral compass and a genuine concern of the child's welfare and safety.
However, it is very likely that you are creating a false equivalency between child molestation and child porn consumers. Don't feel too bad I suppose, it is not your fault that you are surrounded with propaganda that causes this phenomenon to occur in susceptible people. Hopefully over time you can heal yourself and achieve an appropriate level of cognitive development, allowing you to differentiate between these very different things.
False equivalency!! You're completely off your rocker if you truly believe that!! ANY association or involvement in anything related to CP is not only immoral, sick and deeply depraved, but is committed by cold hearted bastards with an inability to feel or have feelings towards others. Additionally, they have obvious mental deficiencies and the inability to differentiate between right and wrong. Your ridiculous and lame attempt at suggesting myself and others of the same view have been influenced by Government propaganda relating to issues involving CP is just ludicrous. What has influenced my point of view is reading about pricks like yourself who continue to justify their actions, whether that be making CP or downloading and/or distributing the disturbing images/videos available to them, and how they can be brought to justice one way or the other. You can post all you want and pretend to differentiate between what you claim are "different levels" of CP offenses, but at the end of the day, whatever part you play in the sick and twisted underground CP industry, is irrelevant in my eyes and a criminal offense, even frowned upon by those already inside for some horrific crimes themselves.
Seriously though I love how half the people who are so outspoken against CP possession appear to have failed to complete their highschool educations. You guys come across like demented psychopathic losers, your arguments are so completely illogical that everybody with a lick of sense knows that you are just fucking idiots, and half of you don't even have any arguments at all you just spew profanity and talk about how much you want to murder pedophiles and how you are super bad asses. For real.
This confirms my opinion of you champ and demonstrates a level of arrogance and immorality beyond the comprehension of most. Your inherently conceited attitude towards CP and the welfare of those children in general is both disturbing and horrific. Here you go again with your insults towards others who speak up about the abominable acts these predators commit in an attempt to deflect the negative attention you seem to be attracting.
demented psychopathic losers
That's exactly the label I'd put on anyone involved in CP, full stop!!
your arguments are so completely illogical
Comment of the year!! It's pretty simple mate. I, like many others, despise anyone, regardless of a reason , who feels it's O.K to use and abuse any child in their warped and twisted fantasies with no regard for the welfare of the children involved. Only a sick and mentally disturbed individual would even consider engaging in CP in one way or another and how that individual could justify their unspeakable actions and be comfortable with their decision is abominable! >:( >:( >:(. Just for the record, I not only completed Year 12 and acquired a Higher School Certificate, I also have a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree from University (College), which has been documented in previous posts approx a year ago in case you thought I'd just made it up in a spur of the moment decision.
I'm sure you'll respond again with some more irrational statements on events throughout History, comparing apples to oranges, or post some drug fueled rant on the justification of your actions. However, the facts are that you are involved in the CP industry and are prepared to defend it at all costs, irrespective of the children hurt throughout the process. Eventually, these decisions will contribute to the punishment destined to eventually come your way.
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You're a real freedom fighter as you masturbate to videos of little kids being raped and tortured.
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What sort of logic brings you to make such a ridiculous claim like this? Your posts here are casting a shadow over your grasp on reality and can perhaps go a little way to explaining your detailed knowledge, skills and ability pertaining to protecting your anonymity. Some of us obviously have more to lose than others.
The claim you are referring to is somewhere in the following quote of mine:
People who want child pornography possession to be criminalized are the ones being insensitive to the victims of child pornography. Looking at pictures of somebody being abused actually DOESN'T cause them to be abused again.
For one, you may be saying that it is ridiculous to claim that somebody looking at pictures of molestation does not cause the person in the picture to be molested all over again. Now it is essentially a waste of time to argue with people like you due to the fact that you are very similar to religious fanatics. All of the scientific information in the world is not going to convince a religious fundamentalist that their religion has no basis in reality. Regardless, I will attempt to summarize my logic, yet again. First of all it may help to understand what a photograph is and what it is not. Despite the beliefs of various non-modernized superstitious tribal groups, photography is not magic. Photographs do not steal the soul of those photographed.
http://www.answers.com/topic/magic-and-superstition
Magic and superstition have surrounded photography from the beginning. Because of the way it captured the image, especially of living people, the camera was widely believed to cause death or illness or to steal the soul. Photographs were thought to have supernatural powers, or be amenable to witchcraft. There are many variants of these beliefs, which are often related to those concerning the power of the shadow, the soul, or the status of the dead. The anthropologist and folklorist J. G. Frazer included examples in his compendium The Golden Bough (1911-15), reporting, for instance, a Yankton Dakota man who feared that his spirit might stay with the photograph after his death instead of going to the spirit land.
While many, especially later, reports are probably travellers' tales or reactions to a photographer's intrusion, others reveal unease or even terror in the face of a new technology. In 19th-century Japan it was said that being photographed once reduced one's shadow and a second time shortened one's life. In parts of South America, photography was believed to peel the face, and in China the camera lens was thought to be made of the eye of a dead Chinese baby. The Araucanian people of Chile believed that photographs could be used to bring bad magic upon the subject, while in parts of Papua New Guinea, photographs of people subject to witchcraft are still believed to be especially dangerous.
The camera was itself seen as a magical instrument, and there are many accounts of subjects fleeing.The photographer's disappearance under the black cloth and the inversion of the image on the focusing screen were perceived as dangerous. Even in Western Europe, the uncannily precise reproduction of God's creatures was sometimes seen as the devil's work. Significantly, the word for photography/photographer in many cultures translates as ‘shadow catcher’, ‘soul taker’, or ‘face stealer’.
The magical, mysterious, and quasi-supernatural qualities of photographs reflect their perceived power in society. Instances of both benevolent and malevolent magical properties occur in film and literature, for example the deadly camera in The Eyes of Laura Mars (1978), and the magical photograph which speaks and moves, yet is still ‘a photograph’, in J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (1998). All point to the astonishing power sometimes attributed to photography, and the anxiety it has evoked.
Additionally, despite the claims of many who profit off of enslaving the consumers of child pornography, it seems highly unlikely that a form of quantum entanglement takes place between a photograph of a molested child and the molested child. If this quantum entanglement really did take place, molested children would be used as quantum key exchange networks by the military, as described in my previous posts.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/quantum-teleportation-distance/
A group of Chinese engineers have smashed the records for quantum teleportation, by creating a pair of entangled photons over a distance of almost 100 kilometers.
Quantum entanglement is the mysterious phenomenon where two particles become tightly intertwined and behave as one system — whether they are next to each other on a laboratory bench, or either sides of a galaxy.
If you examine one particle and measure a certain property — say, vertical polarization — then the other will instantly adopt the opposite property — in this case, horizontal polarization.
It’s crazy stuff. Albert Einstein described it as “spooky action at a distance,” when he was still struggling to get his brain around the ideas proposed by quantum theory. But it’s a powerful phenomenon, and one that physicists have long attempted to harness in the lab.
Trouble is, creating a pair of particles with any distance between them has always been a difficult hurdle to overcome. Imperfections in optic fiber glass, or air turbulence, means that the qubits become unentangled. Plus as the distance gets farther your beam gets wider, so photons simply miss their target.
Juan Yin at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai claims to have cracked it. His team sent photons between two stations, separated by 97 km. Over a Chinese lake, to be precise. To pull off this feat, Yun and friends used a 1.3 Watt laser, and a clever optic steering technique to keep the beam precisely on target. With this setup, they were able to teleport more than 1,100 photons in four hours, over a distance of 97 kilometers.
The last quantum teleportation record was 16 km, and was set by a different set of Chinese researchers in 2010.
Using this mysterious phenomenon to teleport people and objects and kangaroos is a long ways off (and could remain exclusively in the domain of science fiction). But quantum entanglement can also be used for the instantaneous swapping of information, and because the data doesn’t travel through space it can’t be snatched or intercepted while in transport — the ultimate form of encryption..
Now that I have established that photography is not magical, and also have given supporting evidence that molested children do not become entangled with the images of their molestation, I hope that you can understand why I do not believe pedophiles looking at images of CP cause the molested child depicted to be molested all over again. Now you could argue that it is a violation of the depicted child's property rights and I wont really disagree with you. At worst, a pedophile looking at CP, without the permission of the depicted child, has committed a minor property violation, about on par with illegally downloading a movie from a torrent site. Of course if you are against the idea of intellectual property, then you cannot even argue this.
Of course you could be taking issue with my claim that we should be sensitive to the people being arrested for child pornography possession. Well, this is pretty obvious. Since looking at images does not cause children to be molested, from either magic or quantum entanglement, we must conclude that looking at pictures of child pornography is not equal to molesting children. Despite this fact, people who are arrested for downloading CP are often given sentences that are equal to or even harsher than those given to child molesters. This would make sense if viewing CP was WORSE than child molestation, but this is pretty obviously not the case. When a child is molested it quite clearly causes them emotional and psychological damage, oftentimes it causes them physical damage. When a pedophile, or anyone else, anonymously views an image of CP, there is no damage caused to anybody, not through magical properties of photography and not through some form of quantum entanglement. As molestation is clearly a victim producing crime, and viewing CP is clearly a victimless crime, we must feel great sympathy for those who are treated as child molesters despite clearly not being child molesters. I personally feel about as bad for people arrested for viewing CP, as I would feel for somebody who is treated like a pedophile for having downloaded a random movie off of a torrent site.
Hopefully this clears up the logic of my claims! As far as my grasp on reality, I feel that it is actually a painfully tight grasp. It is probably actually too tight as the vast majority of society consists of illogical fuckwits who are quite literally programmed by the power elite into holding certain beliefs. I would be much happier and make far more friends if I had a significantly weaker grasp on reality. Unfortunately for me, I refuse to become insane simply to win a popularity contest. As far as my security skills go, well I have been developing those since I was barely pubescent myself, so I guess that throws your theory out the window.
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How you can continue to post your views here, which as you freely admit are that of someone who indulges in CP, a pedophile, is reprehensible and beyond belief. I don't care for your convoluted, incoherent attempts at justifying the actions of yourself and the other sick fucks who are involved in the depravity of a child's innocence for their own sexual gratification. What a load of bullshit. Any sexual interaction between an adult and a child is an abhorrent act of unquestionable horror in the eyes of a person with a moral compass and a genuine concern of the child's welfare and safety.
I don't believe I ever actually admitted to indulging in child pornography, actually I would be quite surprised if I did. Certainly I have no interest in prepubescent children, so I am not a pedophile in any meaningful way, only perhaps in the eyes of the brainwashed masses. Of course I do fully realize that I am far from alone in being attracted to teenagers who are under the age of consent. There is a great deal of supporting evidence leading me to this conclusion. For one there is an evolutionary advantage to ephebephilia, as females reproductive value starts declining around the age of twenty years old, and peak fertility is reached shortly after puberty begins. This means that genes coding for attraction to mid to late stage pubescent people will be quite common as they are more likely to be passed on. At least they were more likely to be passed on until about one hundred years ago, when such relationships began to be seen as socially unacceptable in some parts of the world, after concentrated campaigning by religious and feminist groups.
Additionally, from a developmental point of view, full sexual characteristics and maturity are reached at about the age of 14 years old, as is clearly illustrated by the tanner scale. This means that from the point of view of attraction to sexual characteristics, there is actually no real distinguishable difference between someone who is about 14.5 and someone who is 20. Of course, the 14.5 year old will have more youthful characteristics, making them more sexually appealing, as non-prepubescent youth is a biological indicator of fertility. If a male is attracted to 20 year olds, it is almost a certainty that he is going to be attracted to 14.5 year olds. Although modern psychiatric terminology may attempt to say otherwise, classifying ephebephilia and teliophilia as separate things, the proof is to be found in the biological development stages and the ages that they are reached at. The only real argument for ephebephilia as something separate from teliophilia is in exclusive ephebephilia. All neurotypical males are non-exclusive ephebephiles. Of course some may not be consciously aware of it, and most have good reason to repress such desires, much as how many homosexuals fail to consciously accept the fact that they are homosexual, due to the social constructs in which they find themselves. Additionally, of course many will not admit their attractions publicly, even if they have come to accept them themselves. However, I do believe that most of us know that it is true that typical males are attracted to mid to late stage pubescent people. In my day to day life I have witnessed a very large number of friends and acquaintances (from many different countries) imply or admit such, and I find it hard to believe that this has been a statistical anomaly. My own experiences, combined with the evolutionary data, the biological development data and the historical data, lead me to confidently conclude that most males are non exclusive ephebephiles. It is especially hard to deny this to yourself if you view an image of a sexually attractive 14+ year old. For example, the following link shows a movie cover with a picture of a 14 year old on it http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3265443328/tt2072045?ref_=tt_ov_i . By the way, I have never actually seen that documentary, and from what I can gather is not very technically accurate with its terminology, despite apparently arguing for my position (I suppose 'are all men non-exclusive Ephebephiles' doesn't have the same attention grabbing power behind it).
My attempts at 'justifying' myself are actually extraordinarily coherent, it is the arguments against me that are quite obviously illogical and emotionally charged. And I already realize that a lot of people are quite aware of this fact, although they probably will not publicly agree with me lest they become part of your modern era witch hunt. I personally don't give much of a fuck at all to speak the truth to insane people, my security skills are such that I know you will not find me and I personally just cannot bring myself to give a fuck what irrational people think. I know this is a severe character shortcoming on my part, and will cause me a great deal of difficulty in functioning in our irrational world full of stupid people, but that is a burden I am quite willing to take upon myself.
False equivalency!! Your completely off your rocker if you truly believe that!! ANY association or involvement in anything related to CP is not only immoral, sick and deeply depraved, but is committed by cold hearted bastards with an inability to feel or have feelings towards others.
Well I have read multiple typologies of child pornography offenders and for the most part you have missed the mark. Of course there are some sociopathic offenders, but the majority of CP offenders are simply pornography addicts who have become desensitized to normal pornography. Many of them would not hurt anybody or actually act out their fantasies. I would compare it to the female rape fantasy if anything. A very large percentage of females are sexually aroused by fantasizing about being raped, but nobody really thinks that a large percentage of females desire to actually be raped. This separation of fantasy and reality is something that most people are capable of doing, and in the majority of cases those who indulge in child pornography are able to separate their fantasies from their actions in reality. Of course there is the fact that actual children are abused to create child pornography, whereas nobody is raped when a female fantasizes about being raped. Of course there is a difference between these two things. But so long as the person who consumes child pornography does not lead to any actual damage being done to a child, I quite honestly don't see the harm in it. There is no magical property of photographs that cause those depicted to re-experience the depicted events every time the photograph is viewed. There is no quantum entanglement connection between a previously molested child and the image of the molestation. When somebody views an image of CP, no damage is done to anybody. The damage is caused by the person who abused the child, and the responsibility for the damage falls squarely on their shoulders. When people bring child pornography consumers up to the level of child molesters, they are really bringing child molesters down to the level of child pornography consumers. They are saying that someone who has molested a child is just as morally neutral as somebody who has viewed an image of a child being molested. This is insensitivity to the child victims of child pornography, you minimize their molestations such that they are equated to somebody having viewed a series of colored pixels. Of course in cases where people pay for child pornography to be produced, it is a different story.
Additionally, they have obvious mental deficiencies and the inability to differentiate between right and wrong. Your ridiculous and lame attempt at suggesting myself and others of the same view have been influenced by Government propaganda relating to issues involving CP is just ludicrous.
Quite certainly you have been influenced by the propaganda of your times, only a little over a hundred years ago it was quite common and socially acceptable to marry and procreate with 12 year olds. In the 1880s in the USA a great many states had an age of consent of only 10 years old, and one state had an age of consent as low as 7. The propaganda originally came from feminist groups and religious groups, although in modern times it is carried on largely by the government and special interest groups. You see, the war on child pornography is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. A lot of peoples jobs depend on child pornography possession remaining illegal, both in the government and private sector. Additionally, in much of the modern world the age of consent is set at about 14 years old. In some countries, such as Spain, the age of consent is 13. Now, you may think that Spain is full of child molesters and their apologists, but I think that you have been brainwashed by your culture into accepting an arbitrary age as the minimum acceptable for sexual relations. From a purely biological perspective I would argue that age 14 is the minimum acceptable age for sexual relations, as that is about the age where full sexual maturity is reached. However, historically people have argued that the onset of puberty is the minimum acceptable age.
What has influenced my point of view is reading about pricks like yourself who continue to justify their actions, whether that be making CP or downloading the disturbing images/videos available to them, and how they can be brought to justice one way or the other. You can post all you want and pretend to differentiate between what you claim are "different levels" of CP offenses, but at the end of the day, whatever part you play in the sick and twisted underground CP industry, is irrelevant in my eyes and a criminal offense, even frowned upon by those already inside for some horrific crimes.
First of all even the police agencies differentiate between the different levels of CP offenses. Doing otherwise would quite clearly show that they are fucking retarded, although unfortunately they manage to show this in several other ways already. Equating somebody who molests children with somebody who views images of children being molested, is to minimize the damage that child molestation causes to the victim. It is insensitive to the child victim and it is insensitive to the person who is ruined for having merely viewed some colored pixels in the privacy of their own home. Additionally, you are mostly incorrect in thinking of CP as an industry. Additionally, in several countries it is not a criminal offense to download CP. In fact I believe even in New York it is not a criminal offense to browse child pornography sites, so long as the images are not saved to the hard drive (and no it doesn't count cached images, that is what the court case was about in the first place). In the Czech Republic it is legal to download and save as much child porn as you want, so long as you don't distribute it to others.
This confirms my opinion of you champ and demonstrates a level of arrogance and immorality beyond the comprehension of most. Your inherently conceited attitude towards CP and the welfare of those children in general is both disturbing and horrific. Here you go again with your insults towards others who speak up about the abominable acts these predators commit in an attempt to deflect the negative attention you seem to be attracting.
What you see demonstrated is perhaps arrogance. I mean, it is hard not to be arrogant when you are one of the few people who understands that photographs are not magic. I really do think quite highly of my ability to see through propaganda and cultural conditioning, but as I mentioned before it is both a gift and a curse.
Comment of the year!! It's pretty simple mate. I, like many others, despise anyone, regardless of a reason , who feels it's O.K to use and abuse any child in their warped and twisted fantasies with no regard for the welfare of the children involved. Only a sick and mentally disturbed individual would even consider engaging in CP in one way or another and how that individual could justify their unspeakable actions and be comfortable with their decision is abominable! >:( >:( >:(. Just for the record, I have a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree from university, which has been documented in previous posts approx a year ago in case you thought I'd just made it up in a spur of the moment decision.
Nice, is your degree in criminology or what? Some social science probably. Regardless I don't think it is ok to abuse children, I just don't think that anonymously looking at CP without paying for it causes a magic quantum entanglement based remolestation to take place. Sorry for being so damn logical and sane!
I'm sure you'll respond again with some more irrational statements on events throughout History, comparing apples to oranges, or post some drug fueled rant on the justification of your actions. However, the facts are that you are involved in the CP industry and are prepared to defend it at all costs, irrespective of the children hurt throughout the process. Eventually, these decisions will contribute to the punishment destined to eventually come your way.
How do you know I don't live in New York or the Czech Republic , and only view CP in my browser without saving it, or never upload it? Anyway I am not worried as I am a security expert, last I checked the NSA doesn't give a fuck about CP. Of course this all assumes that I view child pornography in the first place, something that I am quite certain I never claimed to have done. You see the thing is that I am able to differentiate between the fine details of a system. Perhaps it is because I am autistic, you see neurotypical people see the forest but they miss the trees and Autistic people see the trees but miss the forest. I think the problem is that you are looking at the forest of child pornography and you are seeing that it is full of hurt and abused children, and so you want to burn the entire thing to the ground. I am looking at the trees of child pornography, and I see that although we absolutely should cut some of them down, some of them are not causing harm at all, and cutting them down is simply an act of cruelty fueled by emotionally charged, illogical feelings.
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about the only argument I can see here is: should someone who views/purchases CP be held to the same accountability level as someone who personally commits the act? and since that is not a "security" question, I dont feel I should elaborate on it.....
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about the only argument I can see here is: should someone who views/purchases CP be held to the same accountability level as someone who personally commits the act? and since that is not a "security" question, I dont feel I should elaborate on it.....
I don't understand the desire for people to stop posting in this thread until a moderator moves it to a different subforum. To me it just seems like it is not at all a big deal. None of us can move the thread, until it is moved it is here, there is no reason to ignore it simply because nobody who can move it has moved it yet.
I think the autism might explain a bit why you hold to arguments so mind-boggling to us "neurotypicals".
I agree. Neurotypical people are more empathizing and Autistic people are more systemizing. You cannot help but have emotional reactions to the subject of child pornography, which of course severely impairs your ability to think rationally about the subject. On the other hand, I cannot help but to logically analyze child pornography as a system, without having a strong emotional response to it as I lack in empathy. Your natural inclination is to see the big picture of child pornography, which includes lots of abuse at various levels, and therefor you desire to burn everything to do with it to the ground. My natural inclination is to see the components of child pornography and classify them by various criteria, including the damage they do to people, and only to desire to remove the components that are damaging.
You keep coming back to the (facetious, I guess) "quantum entanglement" nonsense. You're getting hung up on the language. Viewing images of children being raped does not LITERALLY cause a new instance of rape upon that victim. You're failing to parse the use of metaphor. We mean that it dramatically deepens the IMPACT of one episode of victimization. It turns one horrific episode that can be forgotten or worked through into a public humiliation that never ends and can never be forgotten. That's what we mean when we say it re-abuses the victim.
Of course it does not literally cause children to be raped, although it is hard to tell if anybody actually believes it does or not. Certainly a lot of people use language that comes across as saying every time an image of CP is viewed, the depicted child is molested all over again. I would very much like to think that modern civilized humans understand that this is impossible, but when they keep claiming that this mechanism exists it is extremely hard to conclude that they don't actually believe it. But even assuming that it is used as a metaphor it is simply a dishonest metaphor. Once I saw somebody arguing against ephebephilia and they used an image of a 10 year old to show what ephebephiles are attracted to. I pointed out that ephebephiles are in no cases attracted to 10 year olds, and they gave a similar response to me as you are right now. They said they were not using the image to be age accurate, but rather as a metaphor for 'ephebephiles being attracted to defenseless children'. Using this logic it would make sense for me to post a picture of a female baby and claim that this is what average males are sexually attracted to, because it is a 'metaphor for males being attracted to females'. You see the dishonesty?
In either case the humiliation caused by CP to the victim is still not the fault of the person viewing the CP, it is the fault of the person who produced the CP and initially published it to the internet in the first place. When somebody views an image of CP there is not even really an ability for the depicted child to know that this event happened. If they have had CP with them in it published to the internet, they will always have to wonder if somebody is looking at the image or not, even if nobody ever does. So the pain caused to them is caused by the person who took the photograph in the first place, it exists independently of anybody viewing the image or not. When somebody views an image there is no inherent information transfer to the person depicted in the image, without any information transfer there cannot be any change in the child's emotional state linked to the viewing of the image. In most cases the children who ARE aware that individual people are viewing their CP, are only aware of this fact because they are part of restitution programs where they ask to be notified by the police of each such incident so that they can sue the viewer for financial restitution. Clearly the people who take part in such programs value the financial gains they make from people viewing their CP more than they value not being made aware of, and therefor not having emotional reactions to, people viewing their CP.
A lone autistic man in a basement pleasuring himself to "ephebephilic but not pedophilic" videos of 12 year olds being raped may not feel like he is harming anyone. He didn't rape anyone. But it further degrades the victim. It worsens the consequences of the original crime perpetrated on them.
Ephebephiles are not attracted to 12 year olds, the lowest cut off age for ephebephilia is 14 years old and some sources put it at 15. I don't understand the mechanism by which viewing CP worsens the consequences of the original crime, perhaps you can explain it for me. Unless there is information transfer then there quite literally cannot be causative change, so if somebody anonymously looks at an image of CP I think it is pretty obvious that this causes no causative change to take place in the victim. The only cases where such a link can be established are in cases where the victim is made aware that individual people are viewing their CP images. This is usually because of police programs, and if this damage is truly what you have a problem with then you would favor legalizing possession of CP so that police stop informing formerly abused children every single time somebody is arrested with one of their images. Additionally, there are technological solutions that can ensure a lack of information transfer to the abused victim. If all CP is transferred with 'private information retrieval' it can be made impossible for *anybody* to determine that *anybody* has downloaded a specific CP item. Usually when I point this technological solution out to people, they change their tune and begin to argue that damage is done to the child even if nobody can know that anybody downloaded CP with the child in it, belying the claim of revictimization being only a metaphor. Another good point is that some CP features only children who are currently dead. Do you believe that after a child passes away it should be legal to view all CP depicting them, as it is therefor impossible for viewing of the CP to cause a change in the emotional state of the child? What about cases where the now adult child consents to allowing people to view CP with them in it?
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The pedobears have got brazen now they have Tor,the cunts think they are mainstream.I hope they all get caught.
Ive had a bit of a delve in to the deep web,real deep, and what i saw scared me.I used to wonder if snuff,rape and torture movies existed and Tor answered all my questions.You can get anything for a price.
People are so cruel.
PS koonta, by having 'delved really deep into the deep web' I assume that you have 'stumbled upon' CP. Guess what that makes you in the eyes of society? If you guessed child molester, step forward to collect your prize! Now I know that you probably are in denial and wonder how you could possibly be mistaken for 'one of those people', but the thing is that you have seen the forbidden images and now you are given the mark of the beast! You are in the same boat as all the others who have downloaded CP, part of the scum of the modern world! When you attack people who have downloaded CP, you are throwing insults into a mirror, and only your own denial will keep you from recognizing this fact.
I always love when people say "I think we should totally fuck over everybody who has downloaded CP, because I went and downloaded some CP, and it was fucking gross!". It just reeks of hypocrisy, and the saddest part is that the people who say things like this never even realize that they are calling for their own selves to be fucked over. You know the only difference between you and half of the people locked up for CP possession and receipt? You used Tor and they used Limewire. There is not a moral difference between you, in many cases there isn't even a sexual preference difference between you. The only difference between you and them is that you used Tor and that they used Limewire.
Seriously, if you hope that all of the people who downloaded CP get caught, how about you start by turning yourself in? But no, you are special right? Of course it doesn't apply to YOU! Don't worry, you are not alone, the world is full of special people like you, throwing stones with one hand while sinning with the other. Be grateful that you sinned with Tor instead of Limewire though, it is very likely the only thing that will prevent you from getting your teeth 'knocked the fuck in' while walking down the tier.
I dont think the level of criminality is the same with people who produce the videos as compared to the people who watch them but the punishments should be harsh for both sides as to deter people from doing either.
Its just a nasty business with really nasty people.
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The pedobears have got brazen now they have Tor,the cunts think they are mainstream.I hope they all get caught.
Ive had a bit of a delve in to the deep web,real deep, and what i saw scared me.I used to wonder if snuff,rape and torture movies existed and Tor answered all my questions.You can get anything for a price.
People are so cruel.
PS koonta, by having 'delved really deep into the deep web' I assume that you have 'stumbled upon' CP. Guess what that makes you in the eyes of society? If you guessed child molester, step forward to collect your prize! Now I know that you probably are in denial and wonder how you could possibly be mistaken for 'one of those people', but the thing is that you have seen the forbidden images and now you are given the mark of the beast! You are in the same boat as all the others who have downloaded CP, part of the scum of the modern world! When you attack people who have downloaded CP, you are throwing insults into a mirror, and only your own denial will keep you from recognizing this fact.
I always love when people say "I think we should totally fuck over everybody who has downloaded CP, because I went and downloaded some CP, and it was fucking gross!". It just reeks of hypocrisy, and the saddest part is that the people who say things like this never even realize that they are calling for their own selves to be fucked over. You know the only difference between you and half of the people locked up for CP possession and receipt? You used Tor and they used Limewire. There is not a moral difference between you, in many cases there isn't even a sexual preference difference between you. The only difference between you and them is that you used Tor and that they used Limewire.
Seriously, if you hope that all of the people who downloaded CP get caught, how about you start by turning yourself in? But no, you are special right? Of course it doesn't apply to YOU! Don't worry, you are not alone, the world is full of special people like you, throwing stones with one hand while sinning with the other. Be grateful that you sinned with Tor instead of Limewire though, it is very likely the only thing that will prevent you from getting your teeth 'knocked the fuck in' while walking down the tier.
I dont think the level of criminality is the same with people who produce the videos as compared to the people who watch them but the punishments should be harsh for both sides as to deter people from doing either.
Its just a nasty business with really nasty people.
So it is exceedingly obvious that the penalties for producing CP should be steep in most cases, as the act generally causes great damage to the victim. The only exceptions are for things like teenagers taking pictures of themselves and other things like this, as in these cases there is not a victim from the production and any penalties given to the producer will simply compound damage of the only person who could be construed as a victim.
It is not apparent why there should be penalties for the consumers. There are two primary arguments for this. The first argument is revictimization, the notion that every time somebody views an image of molestation, it is like the molestation happens all over again. Taken literally this claim is quite obviously bullshit. Interpreted as a metaphor for 'every time somebody views an image of molestation, it causes some damage to the depicted child' the claim is less absolutely obviously false, but it is still not inherently true. In fact, I am willing to bet that in the vast majority of cases the vast majority of children depicted in CP have absolutely no idea whether somebody is viewing the images or not. In many cases, the only person who knows that the image was viewed is the person who viewed it in the first place. Certainly in cases where the depicted child is incapable of determining that their image has been viewed, we must conclude that the person who viewed the image had absolutely no effect on the child. To claim otherwise is essentially falling back to the magical definition of revictimization.
The second argument is called the market theory of child pornography, and it is much more convincing than revictimization. The argument is that child pornography is produced by producers for the sole purpose of providing it to consumers, and that if there are no consumers of CP there will be no demand for CP, and therefor the producers will stop producing CP and therefor less children will be molested. In some cases I can agree entirely with this argument. Certainly it should be illegal to pay for children to be molested, financially funding child pornography should not be legal. In the past this argument made a hell of a lot more sense than it does today, because decades ago almost all consumers of CP paid for it. Today almost all consumers of CP do not pay for it, rather they obtain it for free off of giant anonymous networks, usually P2P networks like limewire. The majority of CP offenders do not socially network with other offenders, or even expose themselves to the social networks of CP offenders. In modern times it is very rare for anybody to financially support a CP industry, and in fact the financial CP industry is so tiny that it is only responsible for a fraction of a percentage of the total CP distribution.
My opinion is that in addition to standing on very weak ground, the market theory unjustly shifts responsibility from producers to consumers. If somebody wants to rob a bank just because they know people will look at the video footage, should we blame the people who watch the video of the bank robbery? It isn't a perfect analogy because not many people are really interested in watching video footage of bank robberies, and bank robbers generally have a different motivation than being seen on video, but fundamentally this is the same sort of thing. Do we blame the person who commits an act of aggression, or the person who will watch an act of aggression if one is committed? If the person committing the act of aggression refrained from doing so, there would be no act of aggression to watch in the first place. Clearly the person to blame is the one committing the act of aggression in the first place. Perhaps terrorism is a better analogy. Terrorists will attack civilians largely because they know that people will see the attacks and be afraid. For example, look at the Boston bombing, that was very largely televised and reported on. If people wouldn't have watched the bombing take place at that location, you can be assured that the attackers would not have bombed that location. Does this mean that the bombing was the responsibility of the people who watched the attack on television after it had occurred? Should we outlaw reporting on terrorist events, to discourage terrorists from attacking us to spread terror throughout our societies ?